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The role the County plays in each state

Started by roadman65, July 14, 2017, 12:34:00 PM

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bandit957

Quote from: 1 on September 26, 2017, 06:48:49 PM
Are you referring to the cantons in Switzerland?

Yes. I thought Switzerland was the only place that has cantons.
Might as well face it, pooing is cool


bing101

Quote from: Desert Man on July 22, 2017, 10:45:34 PM
Quote from: bing101 on July 16, 2017, 10:14:56 PM
In California counties are divided into Charter Counties and General Law Counties.
Likewise cities in California are divided into Charter and General Law cities.

In California Charter cities and Charter counties play a greater role though.
http://www.seecalifornia.com/counties/charter.html

https://www.cacities.org/Resources/Charter-Cities.


Charter cities and counties tend to carry the state of California most populated areas like Sacramento and Los Angeles.

CA has a total of 58 counties, some are rather large, like Riverside and San Bernardino, also Kern to be as big as states in New England. Riverside county should be divided into two: the eastern part for the Coachella Valley (Indio has the county government offices) and a need to sub-divide Los Angeles county (and city) 5 ways: The Antelope Valley. Santa Monica/Agoura Hills, the South Bay/Culver City, Long Beach and Pomona (the county fairgrounds), and the city itself to a borough system similar to NYC: 1. Central (downtown LA), 2. Hollywood, 3. Venice/Westwood, 4. San Pedro/Harbor City, and 5. San Fernando Valley. However, L.A. has 4 million people and the county has over 10 million.

Interestingly Rhode Island is the same size as Sacramento County.  There's a city/county consolidation in San Francisco and that's the only one in California. However we have South San Francisco but its under San Mateo, County Jurisdiction. West Sacramento is under Yolo County jurisdiction.


empirestate

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 26, 2017, 09:25:47 PM
Quote from: ixnay on July 22, 2017, 08:15:19 PM
I find municipalities that are in more than one county intriguing for some reason. 

NYC and Dallas have already been mentioned.

The little town of Bethlehem, PA (Xmas in July, don't you know) is roughly split evenly between Lehigh and Northampton Counties.  So is Milford, DE (shared by Kent and Sussex Counties, which are separated there by the mighty Mispillion).

ixnay

You'd probably like Lloydminster, which straddles the border between Saskatchewan and Alberta but is a single municipality (unlike, say, Bristol, which is two separate municipalities in Virginia and Tennessee).

Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?

GaryV

Quote from: empirestate on September 27, 2017, 11:00:47 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 26, 2017, 09:25:47 PM
Quote from: ixnay on July 22, 2017, 08:15:19 PM
I find municipalities that are in more than one county intriguing for some reason. 

NYC and Dallas have already been mentioned.

The little town of Bethlehem, PA (Xmas in July, don't you know) is roughly split evenly between Lehigh and Northampton Counties.  So is Milford, DE (shared by Kent and Sussex Counties, which are separated there by the mighty Mispillion).

ixnay

You'd probably like Lloydminster, which straddles the border between Saskatchewan and Alberta but is a single municipality (unlike, say, Bristol, which is two separate municipalities in Virginia and Tennessee).

Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?
You mean like Detroit and all it's suburbs to the north of 8 Mile Road?  Detroit is in Wayne County, the suburbs are in Oakland and Macomb.  They lie in 2 or more counties, and are separate municipalities.

I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but I can't fathom what you really were trying to say.


empirestate

Quote from: GaryV on September 27, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 27, 2017, 11:00:47 AM
Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?
You mean like Detroit and all it's suburbs to the north of 8 Mile Road?  Detroit is in Wayne County, the suburbs are in Oakland and Macomb.  They lie in 2 or more counties, and are separate municipalities.

I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but I can't fathom what you really were trying to say.

Well, if the suburbs were also called Detroit it would be. Just as Bristol, VA is a city, and Bristol, TN is another city; so, suppose there were three cities called Detroit: one in Wayne County, one in Oakland and one in Macomb. That would be an example of what I mean. Unfortunately, it's a made-up one.

Point is, cities that straddle a county line are, as far as I know, always just one city. On the other hand, cities that straddle a state line are almost always separate cities. Now, we have the apparently extraordinary example of Lloydminster, which is one city, but it straddles a provincial line. So, can we find the extraordinary example of a city that straddles a county line within a state, but is not a single municipality?

GaryV

Quote from: empirestate on September 29, 2017, 01:52:42 AM
Quote from: GaryV on September 27, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 27, 2017, 11:00:47 AM
Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?
You mean like Detroit and all it's suburbs to the north of 8 Mile Road?  Detroit is in Wayne County, the suburbs are in Oakland and Macomb.  They lie in 2 or more counties, and are separate municipalities.

I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but I can't fathom what you really were trying to say.

Well, if the suburbs were also called Detroit it would be. Just as Bristol, VA is a city, and Bristol, TN is another city; so, suppose there were three cities called Detroit: one in Wayne County, one in Oakland and one in Macomb. That would be an example of what I mean. Unfortunately, it's a made-up one.

Point is, cities that straddle a county line are, as far as I know, always just one city. On the other hand, cities that straddle a state line are almost always separate cities. Now, we have the apparently extraordinary example of Lloydminster, which is one city, but it straddles a provincial line. So, can we find the extraordinary example of a city that straddles a county line within a state, but is not a single municipality?

Given that most states, provinces, cantons, whatever wouldn't allow two separate cities with the same name, adjacent or not, I doubt you'll find any examples.

empirestate

Quote from: GaryV on September 29, 2017, 07:33:35 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 29, 2017, 01:52:42 AM
Quote from: GaryV on September 27, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 27, 2017, 11:00:47 AM
Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?
You mean like Detroit and all it's suburbs to the north of 8 Mile Road?  Detroit is in Wayne County, the suburbs are in Oakland and Macomb.  They lie in 2 or more counties, and are separate municipalities.

I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but I can't fathom what you really were trying to say.

Well, if the suburbs were also called Detroit it would be. Just as Bristol, VA is a city, and Bristol, TN is another city; so, suppose there were three cities called Detroit: one in Wayne County, one in Oakland and one in Macomb. That would be an example of what I mean. Unfortunately, it's a made-up one.

Point is, cities that straddle a county line are, as far as I know, always just one city. On the other hand, cities that straddle a state line are almost always separate cities. Now, we have the apparently extraordinary example of Lloydminster, which is one city, but it straddles a provincial line. So, can we find the extraordinary example of a city that straddles a county line within a state, but is not a single municipality?

Given that most states, provinces, cantons, whatever wouldn't allow two separate cities with the same name, adjacent or not, I doubt you'll find any examples.


Well, exactly. It would be an extraordinary example, just as it'd be extraordinary to find a multi-state city (because the city corporation is fundamentally subordinate to the state government).

jeffandnicole

Quote from: GaryV on September 29, 2017, 07:33:35 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 29, 2017, 01:52:42 AM
Quote from: GaryV on September 27, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 27, 2017, 11:00:47 AM
Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?
You mean like Detroit and all it's suburbs to the north of 8 Mile Road?  Detroit is in Wayne County, the suburbs are in Oakland and Macomb.  They lie in 2 or more counties, and are separate municipalities.

I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but I can't fathom what you really were trying to say.

Well, if the suburbs were also called Detroit it would be. Just as Bristol, VA is a city, and Bristol, TN is another city; so, suppose there were three cities called Detroit: one in Wayne County, one in Oakland and one in Macomb. That would be an example of what I mean. Unfortunately, it's a made-up one.

Point is, cities that straddle a county line are, as far as I know, always just one city. On the other hand, cities that straddle a state line are almost always separate cities. Now, we have the apparently extraordinary example of Lloydminster, which is one city, but it straddles a provincial line. So, can we find the extraordinary example of a city that straddles a county line within a state, but is not a single municipality?

Given that most states, provinces, cantons, whatever wouldn't allow two separate cities with the same name, adjacent or not, I doubt you'll find any examples.


Some states have municipalities with the same name within the state.  If they get large enough to become a city, there's no requirement they need to change their name.  And if there's so many people living in a town that's going to become a city, do you think anyone's going to be willing to change that town's name?

oscar

Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 30, 2017, 07:43:43 AM
Some states have municipalities with the same name within the state.  If they get large enough to become a city, there's no requirement they need to change their name.  And if there's so many people living in a town that's going to become a city, do you think anyone's going to be willing to change that town's name?

At some point (perhaps earlier in the process), the Postal Service gets involved, or at least did before the introduction of ZIP codes helped reduce confusion between same-named communities in different parts of a state. But while the Postal Service can force name changes for postal address purposes, the original names can persist for other uses.

For example, Hawaii still has two large Kailuas, and three Waimeas, left over from when Hawaii was divided among multiple kingdoms on different islands. One of the postal changes has more or less caught on (Kailua on the Big Island => Kailua-Kona, with Kailua in the Honolulu suburbs unchanged); the postal changes for two of the three Waimeas, not so much. Of course, none of these are municipality names, since Hawaii has no municipalities.
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empirestate

Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 30, 2017, 07:43:43 AM
Quote from: GaryV on September 29, 2017, 07:33:35 PM
Given that most states, provinces, cantons, whatever wouldn't allow two separate cities with the same name, adjacent or not, I doubt you'll find any examples.


Some states have municipalities with the same name within the state.  If they get large enough to become a city, there's no requirement they need to change their name.  And if there's so many people living in a town that's going to become a city, do you think anyone's going to be willing to change that town's name?

For example, Wisconsin has a town, a village and a city, all named Superior. However, I'm not aware of any state that has two municipalities of the same type with the same name (i.e., two cities or two villages, but not counting minor civil division like town[ship]s, which often have duplicated names).

Quote from: oscar on September 30, 2017, 09:11:07 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 30, 2017, 07:43:43 AM
Some states have municipalities with the same name within the state.  If they get large enough to become a city, there's no requirement they need to change their name.  And if there's so many people living in a town that's going to become a city, do you think anyone's going to be willing to change that town's name?

At some point (perhaps earlier in the process), the Postal Service gets involved, or at least did before the introduction of ZIP codes helped reduce confusion between same-named communities in different parts of a state. But while the Postal Service can force name changes for postal address purposes, the original names can persist for other uses.

This probably wouldn't be an issue for a county line-straddling city; no reason the postal service would need a name change based solely on an administrative boundary, if it's the same contiguous place.

mrsman

#60
Quote from: empirestate on September 29, 2017, 01:52:42 AM
Quote from: GaryV on September 27, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 27, 2017, 11:00:47 AM
Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?
You mean like Detroit and all it's suburbs to the north of 8 Mile Road?  Detroit is in Wayne County, the suburbs are in Oakland and Macomb.  They lie in 2 or more counties, and are separate municipalities.

I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but I can't fathom what you really were trying to say.



Well, if the suburbs were also called Detroit it would be. Just as Bristol, VA is a city, and Bristol, TN is another city; so, suppose there were three cities called Detroit: one in Wayne County, one in Oakland and one in Macomb. That would be an example of what I mean. Unfortunately, it's a made-up one.

Point is, cities that straddle a county line are, as far as I know, always just one city. On the other hand, cities that straddle a state line are almost always separate cities. Now, we have the apparently extraordinary example of Lloydminster, which is one city, but it straddles a provincial line. So, can we find the extraordinary example of a city that straddles a county line within a state, but is not a single municipality?

Would Texarkana fit your definition?

mrsman

Quote from: Desert Man on July 22, 2017, 10:45:34 PM
Quote from: bing101 on July 16, 2017, 10:14:56 PM
In California counties are divided into Charter Counties and General Law Counties.
Likewise cities in California are divided into Charter and General Law cities.

In California Charter cities and Charter counties play a greater role though.
http://www.seecalifornia.com/counties/charter.html

https://www.cacities.org/Resources/Charter-Cities.


Charter cities and counties tend to carry the state of California most populated areas like Sacramento and Los Angeles.

CA has a total of 58 counties, some are rather large, like Riverside and San Bernardino, also Kern to be as big as states in New England. Riverside county should be divided into two: the eastern part for the Coachella Valley (Indio has the county government offices) and a need to sub-divide Los Angeles county (and city) 5 ways: The Antelope Valley. Santa Monica/Agoura Hills, the South Bay/Culver City, Long Beach and Pomona (the county fairgrounds), and the city itself to a borough system similar to NYC: 1. Central (downtown LA), 2. Hollywood, 3. Venice/Westwood, 4. San Pedro/Harbor City, and 5. San Fernando Valley. However, L.A. has 4 million people and the county has over 10 million.

I agree that some of the counties in CA are so big, but I would not want to see LA city divide among separate counties.  I do believe the Antelope Valley can be a separate county and the SG Valley cities served by Foothill (basically everything east of El Monte and Pasadena) could be its own county as well.

Definitely agree on dividing SB and Riverside into two counties each.

MNHighwayMan

Quote from: ixnay on July 22, 2017, 08:15:19 PM
I find municipalities that are in more than one county intriguing for some reason. 

You'll love Minnesota's St. Cloud, which resides mostly in Stearns County, but has pieces in Sherburne and Benton Counties too.

Or the small town of Sheldahl, Iowa, population 319, which exists over the tri-corner of Polk, Story, and Boone Counties.

empirestate

Quote from: mrsman on October 01, 2017, 08:46:42 AM
Quote from: empirestate on September 29, 2017, 01:52:42 AM
Quote from: GaryV on September 27, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 27, 2017, 11:00:47 AM
Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?
You mean like Detroit and all it's suburbs to the north of 8 Mile Road?  Detroit is in Wayne County, the suburbs are in Oakland and Macomb.  They lie in 2 or more counties, and are separate municipalities.

I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but I can't fathom what you really were trying to say.



Well, if the suburbs were also called Detroit it would be. Just as Bristol, VA is a city, and Bristol, TN is another city; so, suppose there were three cities called Detroit: one in Wayne County, one in Oakland and one in Macomb. That would be an example of what I mean. Unfortunately, it's a made-up one.

Point is, cities that straddle a county line are, as far as I know, always just one city. On the other hand, cities that straddle a state line are almost always separate cities. Now, we have the apparently extraordinary example of Lloydminster, which is one city, but it straddles a provincial line. So, can we find the extraordinary example of a city that straddles a county line within a state, but is not a single municipality?

Would Texarkana fit your definition?

No, Texarkana is not within one state.

SP Cook

This bring up a question I have had for a while.  Traveling through St. Louis I noticed several vehicles with plates reading something like "Bi-State Development District - IL - MO".  While I know of many multi-state government agencies, such as the Port Authority of NY and NJ, I cannot recall another that issues its own plates.  Others seem to just use one state or the other or mix it up based on the base of the particular vehicle.

Who would keep the records of such a plate?  MO or IL or both?

SD Mapman

Quote from: empirestate on September 30, 2017, 12:28:16 PM
This probably wouldn't be an issue for a county line-straddling city; no reason the postal service would need a name change based solely on an administrative boundary, if it's the same contiguous place.
Sometimes the zip code doesn't even change; 57106 is the zip code for southwestern Sioux Falls in both Minnehaha and Lincoln Counties. However, if you move to the east, the Lincoln County part is 57108 and the Minnehaha part is 57105 and 57103.
The traveler sees what he sees, the tourist sees what he has come to see. - G.K. Chesterton



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