Traffic signal

[mrsman]

Five signal faces seems like overkill to me.

One thing about these ramps is that it seems odd to allow the straight movement altogether.  There are some of these in the L.A. area as well at diamond ramps, but generally they are used to facilitate transit use.  There are some freeway buses that exit, go across the street at the signal, stop to pick up passengers, and then go up the ramp back to the freeway.

Here is an example at US 101 / Van Nuys Blvd.


https://www.google.com/maps/@34.156675,-118.4489662,3a,75y,115.22h,76.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sY3vbS2c84PGzdM08wqc6RQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Here, there are 3 signal faces.   Like Jake's example, left lane for left turns, right lane for right turns, and the center lane for left/straight/right.  The left signal and center signal are RYG-GA left and the right signal is RYG-GA right.  This seems more than sufficient.  The only thing that I would add would be another right arrow onto the middle signal so that it is properly symmetric.

Oddly enough at the opposite off-ramp you have this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1574035,-118.4485884,3a,75y,287.12h,77.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssqXbaJZkWiLYMfgikaBjDw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Same lane configuration.  2 signal faces.  The left signal is RYG-GA left and the right signal is RYG-GA right.  (Not shown in this view is a near side signal that is the same as the signal on the right corner.)

[The old signal configuration had only two RYG signals on each side, without any arrows.  Even this would be sufficient as there is no need for a protected turn off of a one way street (or off-ramp, on-ramp as in this specific case).

One interesting find in that second setup is that the southbound Van Nuys far left signal (north of 101) still has the old 8-8-12 with the straight arrow in the 12" lens. Looks like a relic of the 60s.

I think the signal head is newer as the very dark signal heads tend to be newer.

It is common in California to have a green straight arrow on the left most signal whenever a left turn is permanently prohibited, as in this case since a left turn would be wrong way turn.

[djlynch]

Also, I noticed that the far end of the bridge doesn't have a signal for the side street, but I'm assuming people would be smart enough to figure out what direction traffic is going, and that if traffic at this end is stopped, it's to let traffic from the other end cross.  Also, it's a dead end, so the only people on it would be people who live on it and lock employees.

There's a sign set a few dozen feet back from the stop sign with red flags on it for emphasis. It wouldn't surprise me if it's a "right turn only" sign to prevent traffic trying to cross the bridge.

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/PcDx5Lnx1JW1ovyF8
I see PA is now copying NJ with left side signal heads.  Also the extra doghouse here is unusual as PA like many states uses just one green arrow for left turn signals.

[Big John]

^^ That left signal is likely there due to the curvature of the road so traffic can see the signal ahead of time.

[roadman65]

^^ That left signal is likely there due to the curvature of the road so traffic can see the signal ahead of time.

Probably, but Philly has plenty of them on Broad Street and some roads in Bucks County now install left side signaling just like NJ always had for ages.

[SignBridge]

I've driven a lot in lower Bucks County and the only places I've seen those reverse-mounted supplemental heads are where there is a curved approach and you need a near-side signal, like the previous poster said.

Have you seen any such signals in that area where the approach is straight? If so can you tell us where they are? 

[jakeroot]

^^ That left signal is likely there due to the curvature of the road so traffic can see the signal ahead of time.

Probably, but Philly has plenty of them on Broad Street and some roads in Bucks County now install left side signaling just like NJ always had for ages.

The left-side signals in Philly are left-over* from when PA extensively used regular traffic signals for pedestrian crossings. They also acted as supplemental signals for vehicular traffic; many intersections in Philly only had one overhead signal on those approaches.

For the record, many states have been using left-side signals besides NJ. Maryland installs overhead, near-side left turn signals on almost every approach. Not to mention the numerous Western and Midwestern states that use left and right side signals (in addition to overhead signals).

*This old standard was arguably better than the current standard, but it's the older standard nonetheless

[Amtrakprod]

I found a 4-way pedestal in Toledo Iowa last week

I saw one of those very recently:


iPhone

[MNHighwayMan]

This is either a MnDOT signage mistake, or this "FYA" operates way differently than any other I've seen. 12th St W and Oakland Ave, Austin, MN

Note the sign to the left of the three-section arrow head.



As I saw it operate, it operates as a standard RYG protected-only left arrow, but yet has a sign telling to yield on FYA? Unless it operates differently (and very non-standardly, without a fourth signal section for the FYA) at different hours of the day, the sign is unnecessary here.

[jeffandnicole]

This is either a MnDOT signage mistake, or this "FYA" operates way differently than any other I've seen. 12th St W and Oakland Ave, Austin, MN

Note the sign to the left of the three-section arrow head.



As I saw it operate, it operates as a standard RYG protected-only left arrow, but yet has a sign telling to yield on FYA? Unless it operates differently (and very non-standardly, without a fourth signal section for the FYA) at different hours of the day, the sign is unnecessary here.

I believe both 3 and 4 headed signals are standard.  The 4 headed signal appears to be preferred by most transportation departments though.

[mrsman]

This is either a MnDOT signage mistake, or this "FYA" operates way differently than any other I've seen. 12th St W and Oakland Ave, Austin, MN

Note the sign to the left of the three-section arrow head.



As I saw it operate, it operates as a standard RYG protected-only left arrow, but yet has a sign telling to yield on FYA? Unless it operates differently (and very non-standardly, without a fourth signal section for the FYA) at different hours of the day, the sign is unnecessary here.

I believe both 3 and 4 headed signals are standard.  The 4 headed signal appears to be preferred by most transportation departments though.

The 4 headed signal is preferred to highlight that the flashing yellow arrow and the solid yellow arrow are different.  The solid yellow arrow is to denote that the phase is ending.

I have also seen RA-YA-FYA signals with no green arrow.  This highlights some signals that do not provide a protected left turn phase, but still need FYA functionality (like to avoid yellow trap or to provide extra caution for pedestrians).

[jakeroot]

I think the observation is mainly that it's "in the style" of a protected-only signal, and seems to operate in protected-only mode, yet has a "yield on [FYA]" sign.

I have certainly seen many 3-face FYAs, but none that operate by time-of-day. There are some time-of-day FYAs in my area, but they're all 4-face displays.

IIRC, Minnesota does use time-of-day FYAs, but only for double-left turns?

[MNHighwayMan]

I think the observation is mainly that it's "in the style" of a protected-only signal, and seems to operate in protected-only mode, yet has a "yield on [FYA]" sign.

Correct.

I have certainly seen many 3-face FYAs, but none that operate by time-of-day. There are some time-of-day FYAs in my area, but they're all 4-face displays.

IIRC, Minnesota does use time-of-day FYAs, but only for double-left turns?

I have never seen a three-section FYA that had all three colors, using the yellow section for both flashing and steady. This would be the first, if it did operate that way.

As far as time-of-day FYAs for double lefts, I don't know for certain that some operate that way, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[mrsman]

I think the observation is mainly that it's "in the style" of a protected-only signal, and seems to operate in protected-only mode, yet has a "yield on [FYA]" sign.

Correct.

I have certainly seen many 3-face FYAs, but none that operate by time-of-day. There are some time-of-day FYAs in my area, but they're all 4-face displays.

IIRC, Minnesota does use time-of-day FYAs, but only for double-left turns?

I have never seen a three-section FYA that had all three colors, using the yellow section for both flashing and steady. This would be the first, if it did operate that way.

As far as time-of-day FYAs for double lefts, I don't know for certain that some operate that way, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Not sure if it's legal (per MUTCD or state equivalents) to have the yellow section for both steady and flashing yellow arrow, but it is highly inadvisable.  It is important to highlight the steady yellow arrow, which signifies the end of the permissive turn phase, and simply turning the flash into steady is too subtle for many to realize.  That is part of the reason for having 4 aspects on the FYA signal.

MD, AFAIK, does not use FYA, but instead uses flashing red arrow.  Those are exclusively 3 aspect signals.  I believe part of the reason for this is because in some of the early literature of FYA, there was some confusion since in many areas that have signals go on flash (and most MD signal go on flash overnight) and would treat that as CAUTION there is an intersection but you have the right of way.  FYA, of course, does not mean that you have the right of way, but rather yield to oncoming traffic.   Technically, with a flashing red arrow you need to come to a complete stop each time before you turn, and I beleive that you are not allowed to rest in the middle of the intersection to wait for a gap.  If there is no gap, then you wait for the green arrow, even if you have to go through the whole cycle.  There is no 4th aspect to distinguish between flashing red and solid red arrows.

The intersection with flashing red arrows closest to me seems to be always on a lead-lead left turn signalization (or one direction leading if there is no one coming in the other way).  The SB left is much heavier and there is almost someone over there.  The signalization is typically: green arrow-red orb, yellow arrow-red orb, steady red arrow (for a few seconds)-red orb, steady red arrow (for a few seconds)-green orb), flashing red arrow-green orb, steady red arrow-yellow orb, steady red arrow-red orb.  Given this signalization, I don't believe they permit you to complete your turn if you are waiting, but most people do.  I don't understand why they did this, doghouse signals would work so much better for lead-lead left turns.

[roadfro]

I have never seen a three-section FYA that had all three colors, using the yellow section for both flashing and steady. This would be the first, if it did operate that way.

Not sure if it's legal (per MUTCD or state equivalents) to have the yellow section for both steady and flashing yellow arrow, but it is highly inadvisable.  It is important to highlight the steady yellow arrow, which signifies the end of the permissive turn phase, and simply turning the flash into steady is too subtle for many to realize.  That is part of the reason for having 4 aspects on the FYA signal.

A three-section FYA that uses the middle yellow section for both the flashing and steady yellow arrow is not allowed per the 2009 MUTCD as currently written. However, the FHWA issued Interim Approval for Optional Use of Three-Section Flashing Yellow Arrow Signal Faces (IA-17) in 2014 that will allow agencies to install three-section FYAs operating in this manner subject to conditions. This option will likely be added to the next MUTCD. (It was likely allowed to give agencies the opportunity to use existing protected signal heads to implement FYA operations without having to buy and install new signal heads.)

[jakeroot]

I have never seen a three-section FYA that had all three colors, using the yellow section for both flashing and steady. This would be the first, if it did operate that way.

Not sure if it's legal (per MUTCD or state equivalents) to have the yellow section for both steady and flashing yellow arrow, but it is highly inadvisable.  It is important to highlight the steady yellow arrow, which signifies the end of the permissive turn phase, and simply turning the flash into steady is too subtle for many to realize.  That is part of the reason for having 4 aspects on the FYA signal.

A three-section FYA that uses the middle yellow section for both the flashing and steady yellow arrow is not allowed per the 2009 MUTCD as currently written. However, the FHWA issued Interim Approval for Optional Use of Three-Section Flashing Yellow Arrow Signal Faces (IA-17) in 2014 that will allow agencies to install three-section FYAs operating in this manner subject to conditions. This option will likely be added to the next MUTCD. (It was likely allowed to give agencies the opportunity to use existing protected signal heads to implement FYA operations without having to buy and install new signal heads.)

Every flashing yellow arrow in Pierce County, WA (except for one) uses a flashing center lens (probably at least 60-80 total signal heads?). No bi-modal signals here. Lakewood, a city within Pierce County, uses a flashing lower (bi-modal) lens; everyone else uses a four-section FYA. You can see it all around here!

You thinking that they may have gotten carried away with that IA? They even went so far as to replace a 4-section FYA with a 3-section FYA about a year ago (skip forward a year to see the new signal).

https://youtu.be/tD7YtZvjTFU

[Revive 755]

This brings up a question that I've had in the past. What states continued to use red orbs for their protected left-turn signals up until the recent MUTCD mandate requiring red arrows? Other than Virginia and Pennsylvania, I know this was standard operating procedure in Connecticut and Louisiana. You can still find examples throughout those states.

Missouri used to, and it seems like they would like to keep using it as there are a few flashing yellow installations using red orbs.  MO 95 at US 60 has these (although Streetview never shows it).  There are also a few near I-49 in the Kansas City area (example on MO 58).

The Collinsville District of IDOT also used to, although they used louvers on at least the red indication on the left turn heads closest to the through lanes (example).  I believe they kept this practice a bit after the 2009 MUTCD was adopted, although they have since made the switch to red arrows.

Indiana also used the red orbs; I recall there still being a few that have not been converted to red arrows.

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

Converse Avenue at Dell Range Boulevard in Cheyenne, WY, may be a candidate for an all-orb left turn head. looks like it comes close, but it appears NB and SB are split phased here.

[Big John]

Green Bay has a couple intersections with a red orb on an otherwise all arrow FYA installation.  Other intersections use the proper all arrow FYA installation.

[jakeroot]

Does anyone known if there are any all-orb dedicated left turn displays in use? The kind that say "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" and use, among red and yellow, a green orb to indicate a protected left.

Converse Avenue at Dell Range Boulevard in Cheyenne, WY, may be a candidate for an all-orb left turn head. looks like it comes close, but it appears NB and SB are split phased here.

Ahh yes, the old "split phased but all green orbs anyway" approach. Seen that before, not a fan. Very misleading.

Green Bay has a couple intersections with a red orb on an otherwise all arrow FYA installation.  Other intersections use the proper all arrow FYA installation.

Left or right turns? Or both?

[Big John]

Green Bay has a couple intersections with a red orb on an otherwise all arrow FYA installation.  Other intersections use the proper all arrow FYA installation.

Left or right turns? Or both?

Left turns.

[jakeroot]

Green Bay has a couple intersections with a red orb on an otherwise all arrow FYA installation.  Other intersections use the proper all arrow FYA installation.

Left or right turns? Or both?

Left turns.

Weird. I would have thought that most/all FYA signals would have been introduced after the elimination of red orb, "LEFT TURN SIGNAL" setups.

[roadman65]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/48384458012/in/dateposted-public/

I noticed that Louisiana uses both span wire and mast arms just like Texas and Florida.  Was just curious as it appeared to me that Louisiana was replacing the span wire with mast arms as in the Houma area many replacements are the mast arm, so I assume that they were phasing out the span wiring.

This one is in Shreveport on LA 1 at I-49, which is not only a few years old, but mounted from telephone poles which La usually uses metal poles for span wires.  Is this a temporary set up, or does La occasionally use wood poles?

[jeffandnicole]

The Philadelphia Inquirer:

Why Philly's traffic lights still aren't synchronized – and won't be anytime soon

Includes some pictures of old timing mechanisms and other shop stuff, and a graphic of how most of Philly's lights aren't working as well as they should.

https://www.inquirer.com/transportation/philadelphia-traffic-light-congestion-technology-20190731.html

[roadman65]

The Philadelphia Inquirer:

Why Philly’s traffic lights still aren’t synchronized — and won’t be anytime soon

Includes some pictures of old timing mechanisms and other shop stuff, and a graphic of how most of Philly's lights aren't working as well as they should.

https://www.inquirer.com/transportation/philadelphia-traffic-light-congestion-technology-20190731.html

NY still has the old click boxes and double guy mast arms, and they are not synchronized in many places except going up or down the Manhattan Avenues as you can drive them for several blocks without issue. Crosstown in Manhattan is another story!  Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx I have found in recent trips have gotten worse since 1990 from what I experienced.  I drove Flatbush Avenue in Downtown Brooklyn in 2003 on a Saturday and it was like the weekdays during rush hour back when I lived in NJ.  Usually roads in NYC before I moved to FL were easy to manipulate on Saturdays and Sundays, but in 2003 I saw an increase in weekend drivers for sure.  The lights were no help either.

[SignBridge]

Back in the 1970's the signals on Queens Blvd were synchronized. Back then I once got 9 consecutive greens at about 40 mph. The speed limit was reduced to 25mph on that road a few years back to try to reduce pedestrian strikes. I don't know if the signals still work as well as years ago.