Which states get roasted the most?

[LM117]

BTW, something I didn't think of when typing my prior post: I think one thing for which Virginia deserves to be mocked is the stupid law providing that anything over 80 mph is grounds for a reckless driving ticket (a misdemeanor, if you're convicted), even if the speed limit is 70 mph. There have been efforts to change this law as to 70-mph zones, but they stall in committee every year.

This says it all about why those efforts have failed.

https://pilotonline.com/news/government/politics/virginia/bill-to-amend-va-s-reckless-driving-law-shot-down/article_1c957453-bab5-5df6-a209-c821f02e295f.html

The Criminal Subcommittee of the House Committee on Courts of Justice voted 7-2 against the bill. Opponents cited several concerns, including a possible fiscal impact and that faster speeds lead to more crashes.

VA struck a gold mine when they raised the speed limit to 70. To sweeten the pot, local governments can keep ticket revenue once again. After all, "local governments have got to have money". Thanks, Hopewell!

http://www.progress-index.com/news/20161001/another-chance-for-hopewells-million-dollar-mile

[vdeane]

Pointing out tall mountain peaks has nothing to do with roads in other areas of the state.
The ruggedness has more to do with the width of the mountains and hills, and the roads necessary to pass thru them.  In PA, the mountain/hill terrain is deceiving, basically hitting every border state, so it's something often considered for every roadway. 

Tallest mountain is a good measure, as most states in that region have ones that are higher than PA, some states that are twice as high.

Plenty areas of PA are not "rugged".  SE PA is not, the I-79 route north of Cranberry is not.

I guess its a matter of degree.  The area around Philadelphia is pretty hilly compared to Rochester and Buffalo.  I'd certainly consider PA as a whole rugged, even if there are the occasional flatter areas.  "Percentage of state highway system over hilly or mountainous terrain" is a much better measurement than "height of the tallest mountain".

[Beltway]

All VDOT has to do is modify some of the ramps on US-29 in Danville, as well as close the Elizabeth Street at-grade access and I-785 in VA will be complete. There are currently no plans to do so.

Needs 10 foot wide paved right shoulders thruout, and 4 foot wide paved left shoulders thruout.
The Elizabeth Street access now is the first stage of an design that includes an overpassing roadway for Elizabeth Street and the completion of 4 ramps.
N.C. has about 20 miles of US-29 that is a nonlimited access highway and would need major construction if they want a freeway.  I don't think any detailed planning there yet.

The shoulders on US-29 between the US-29 Business split in Blairs and the NC state line already meets interstate standards. Once VDOT modifies some of the ramps at certain interchanges and deals with Elizabeth Street, I-785 shields can go up once NC finishes their part, whenever that may be.

Are you sure that it has 10 foot wide paved right shoulders thruout, and 4 foot wide paved left shoulders thruout? 

It appears to me that at least the older part of the bypass (29 S to 58 E), has 8 foot wide paved right shoulders, and 3 foot wide paved left shoulders.  That is not Interstate standards.

[Beltway]

Plenty areas of PA are not "rugged".  SE PA is not, the I-79 route north of Cranberry is not.

I guess its a matter of degree.  The area around Philadelphia is pretty hilly compared to Rochester and Buffalo.  I'd certainly consider PA as a whole rugged, even if there are the occasional flatter areas.  "Percentage of state highway system over hilly or mountainous terrain" is a much better measurement than "height of the tallest mountain".

I don't.  I lived in the Valley Forge area in the 1970s, and most of the 5-county Philadelphia area is either fairly level or gently rolling.  Certainly not "rugged".  I can say the same thing about the Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton area.  Same thing about Lancaster and Berks counties.  Same thing about the northwestern part of the state.  There are other areas which could be called rolling terrain, but not 'rugged'.

[PHLBOS]

Plenty areas of PA are not "rugged".  SE PA is not, the I-79 route north of Cranberry is not.

I guess its a matter of degree.  The area around Philadelphia is pretty hilly compared to Rochester and Buffalo.  I'd certainly consider PA as a whole rugged, even if there are the occasional flatter areas.  "Percentage of state highway system over hilly or mountainous terrain" is a much better measurement than "height of the tallest mountain".

I don't.  I lived in the Valley Forge area in the 1970s, and most of the 5-county Philadelphia area is either fairly level or gently rolling.  Certainly not "rugged".

The Manayunk section of Philadelphia being one notable exception.

[Beltway]

Plenty areas of PA are not "rugged".  SE PA is not, the I-79 route north of Cranberry is not.

I guess its a matter of degree.  The area around Philadelphia is pretty hilly compared to Rochester and Buffalo.  I'd certainly consider PA as a whole rugged, even if there are the occasional flatter areas.  "Percentage of state highway system over hilly or mountainous terrain" is a much better measurement than "height of the tallest mountain".

I don't.  I lived in the Valley Forge area in the 1970s, and most of the 5-county Philadelphia area is either fairly level or gently rolling.  Certainly not "rugged".

The Manayunk section of Philadelphia being one notable exception.

Some places along the Surekill Expressway could be called "rugged".  But not in the vast majority of the land in the 5-county area.

[LM117]

All VDOT has to do is modify some of the ramps on US-29 in Danville, as well as close the Elizabeth Street at-grade access and I-785 in VA will be complete. There are currently no plans to do so.

Needs 10 foot wide paved right shoulders thruout, and 4 foot wide paved left shoulders thruout.
The Elizabeth Street access now is the first stage of an design that includes an overpassing roadway for Elizabeth Street and the completion of 4 ramps.
N.C. has about 20 miles of US-29 that is a nonlimited access highway and would need major construction if they want a freeway.  I don't think any detailed planning there yet.

The shoulders on US-29 between the US-29 Business split in Blairs and the NC state line already meets interstate standards. Once VDOT modifies some of the ramps at certain interchanges and deals with Elizabeth Street, I-785 shields can go up once NC finishes their part, whenever that may be.

Are you sure that it has 10 foot wide paved right shoulders thruout, and 4 foot wide paved left shoulders thruout? 

It appears to me that at least the older part of the bypass (29 S to 58 E), has 8 foot wide paved right shoulders, and 3 foot wide paved left shoulders.  That is not Interstate standards.

Yes, I'm sure. I've driven on plenty of interstates and I've driven US-29 more times than I can count. Again, once VDOT modifies some of the ramps and grade separates Elizabeth Street, there will be nothing preventing the state from seeking the I-785 designation once NC finishes their part.

For comparison, here's US-29 between Blairs and the US-58/US-360 interchange:

https://goo.gl/maps/1tunuPdFo3z

And here's US-17 in Chesapeake with 8ft outside shoulders.

https://goo.gl/maps/XCHWE2RtXhk

Here's an existing interstate. I-795 in NC for example:

https://goo.gl/maps/YpP6CkqoNH12

[vdeane]

Plenty areas of PA are not "rugged".  SE PA is not, the I-79 route north of Cranberry is not.

I guess its a matter of degree.  The area around Philadelphia is pretty hilly compared to Rochester and Buffalo.  I'd certainly consider PA as a whole rugged, even if there are the occasional flatter areas.  "Percentage of state highway system over hilly or mountainous terrain" is a much better measurement than "height of the tallest mountain".

I don't.  I lived in the Valley Forge area in the 1970s, and most of the 5-county Philadelphia area is either fairly level or gently rolling.  Certainly not "rugged".  I can say the same thing about the Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton area.  Same thing about Lancaster and Berks counties.  Same thing about the northwestern part of the state.  There are other areas which could be called rolling terrain, but not 'rugged'.

Is the majority of the PA state highway system in the Philadelphia and Erie metro areas?  No.  And pretty much most if not all of the rest of the state is rugged.  Those areas are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Now, granted, I grew up around Rochester, which is flatland compared even to Philadelphia.

[webny99]

Plenty areas of PA are not "rugged".  SE PA is not, the I-79 route north of Cranberry is not.

I guess its a matter of degree.  The area around Philadelphia is pretty hilly compared to Rochester and Buffalo.  I'd certainly consider PA as a whole rugged, even if there are the occasional flatter areas.  "Percentage of state highway system over hilly or mountainous terrain" is a much better measurement than "height of the tallest mountain".

I don't.  I lived in the Valley Forge area in the 1970s, and most of the 5-county Philadelphia area is either fairly level or gently rolling.  Certainly not "rugged".  I can say the same thing about the Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton area.  Same thing about Lancaster and Berks counties.  Same thing about the northwestern part of the state.  There are other areas which could be called rolling terrain, but not 'rugged'.

Is the majority of the PA state highway system in the Philadelphia and Erie metro areas?  No.  And pretty much most if not all of the rest of the state is rugged.  Those areas are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Now, granted, I grew up around Rochester, which is flatland compared even to Philadelphia.

Precisely. Rural PA is the heart of Appalachia, and is most certainly rugged terrain when compared to other states in the area (WV being the exception). Their highway network doesn't zigzag all over the place just for fun, the highways follows natural routes such as valleys, rivers, etc. Philly and Erie are not "rugged" per se, but that doesn't reflect the state as a whole.

Anyways, this is hardly relevant anymore....
Back on track...

[formulanone]

(no mention of Texas with I-14 and I-69W/C/E?)

Get past the incomplete-but-awarded Interstates, a lot of Clearview, and it's really a textbook example on how to build a massive road network with very generous speed limits.

My personal grudge - and a really minor one at that - is that TXDOT is almost too standardized. For some, that's just amazing considering its area. (I like a little variety where there's subtle changes in roadway design, infrastructure, signage, et al.) Also depends if you believe if "too many route numbers" is a problem or not; but hey, it's Texas.

That's not to say Dallas and Houston can't be maddening at times, like any large metro area. And Austin, for being...well, Austin.

[Beltway]

The shoulders on US-29 between the US-29 Business split in Blairs and the NC state line already meets interstate standards. Once VDOT modifies some of the ramps at certain interchanges and deals with Elizabeth Street, I-785 shields can go up once NC finishes their part, whenever that may be.

Are you sure that it has 10 foot wide paved right shoulders thruout, and 4 foot wide paved left shoulders thruout? 
It appears to me that at least the older part of the bypass (29 S to 58 E), has 8 foot wide paved right shoulders, and 3 foot wide paved left shoulders.  That is not Interstate standards.

Yes, I'm sure. I've driven on plenty of interstates and I've driven US-29 more times than I can count. Again, once VDOT modifies some of the ramps and grade separates Elizabeth Street, there will be nothing preventing the state from seeking the I-785 designation once NC finishes their part.
For comparison, here's US-29 between Blairs and the US-58/US-360 interchange:
https://goo.gl/maps/1tunuPdFo3z
And here's US-17 in Chesapeake with 8ft outside shoulders.
https://goo.gl/maps/XCHWE2RtXhk
Here's an existing interstate. I-795 in NC for example:
https://goo.gl/maps/YpP6CkqoNH12

I believe you are correct about the segment north of US-58.  That was the most recently built, 1990s.  The part I question is the segment south of US-58, particularly between VA-86 and US-29, which opened about 1980, Google Maps aerial image isn't as sharp as I would like, but the right shoulders look like 8 feet wide.  I have driven it many times as well.

[Beltway]

Plenty areas of PA are not "rugged".  SE PA is not, the I-79 route north of Cranberry is not.

I guess its a matter of degree.  The area around Philadelphia is pretty hilly compared to Rochester and Buffalo.  I'd certainly consider PA as a whole rugged, even if there are the occasional flatter areas.  "Percentage of state highway system over hilly or mountainous terrain" is a much better measurement than "height of the tallest mountain".

I don't.  I lived in the Valley Forge area in the 1970s, and most of the 5-county Philadelphia area is either fairly level or gently rolling.  Certainly not "rugged".  I can say the same thing about the Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton area.  Same thing about Lancaster and Berks counties.  Same thing about the northwestern part of the state.  There are other areas which could be called rolling terrain, but not 'rugged'.

Is the majority of the PA state highway system in the Philadelphia and Erie metro areas?  No.  And pretty much most if not all of the rest of the state is rugged.  Those areas are the exceptions that prove the rule.

I disproportionately large percentage of lane-mileage in the state is in those 13 or 14 counties I mentioned.

I've traveled all over the state, IMO probably 1/2 of the land area is no more than 'rolling', certainly not "rugged".

[Beltway]

Rural PA is the heart of Appalachia, and is most certainly rugged terrain when compared to other states in the area (WV being the exception). Their highway network doesn't zigzag all over the place just for fun, the highways follows natural routes such as valleys, rivers, etc. Philly and Erie are not "rugged" per se, but that doesn't reflect the state as a whole.

Western Virginia and western North Carolina, in mountainous land area as well as the number of mountains over 4,000 feet high.  As much or more than PA and their tallest mountain is only about 3,200 feet high.

[jeffandnicole]

Unless a highway is also climbing that highest peak, the 2 have nothing to do with each other.

Here's also why using highest peaks doesn't make sense...I'll argue Virginia and North Carolina's lowest points are sea level. Since Pennsylvania doesn't meet an ocean, Virginia and North Carolina are flat states.

[Beltway]

Unless a highway is also climbing that highest peak, the 2 have nothing to do with each other.
Here's also why using highest peaks doesn't make sense...I'll argue Virginia and North Carolina's lowest points are sea level. Since Pennsylvania doesn't meet an ocean, Virginia and North Carolina are flat states.

The Delaware River south of Trenton is a tidal estuary of the Atlantic Ocean, and is at sea level.  Therefore, Pennsylvania is a flat state.   

[roadman65]

I am surprised that NJ's interstate all upper case interstate mileage signs listing townships not that well known, is not roasted.   Last week a couple of users here went through Jersey and thought the mileage signs on I-295 using Bellmawr and Ewing instead of Camden and Trenton had a lot to be desired for.   

IMO, the mileage signs along the interstates are the same ones on local roads and not freeway types of signs.  I never thought of it as I grew up with LGSes on I-78 and the I-295 & US 130 concurrency which the latter kept the old US 130 signage (remember that was built as an expressway for the US route and became interstate mileage later).  Up to the late 70's the exit ramps there used the street names underlined with one control city.  Also to this day, supplemental signs in many places on the NJ interstate freeways are still non freeway type of signs with all upper case too.

[Super Mateo]

Some states that deserve a roasting:

-California:  Decommissioning so many US routes
-Colorado:  They don't even acknowledge US route on concurrencies with Interstates, so trying to follow them is impossible without a map.
-Indiana:  Of all the states I've driven in, IN is the worst.  IN 4, among others, has unconnected segments.  IN 25 & 26 disappear in Lafayette.  Routes exit a road, then return to it on the other side of town (IN 38 Pendleton, US 52 Lafayette, etc.).  Stoplights are often the bare minimum, usually only two for straight traffic and one for lefts if you're lucky.  Traffic jams in both Chicagoland and Indianapolis.  Routes that end in random places or at former routes (IN 38, 912, etc.). 
-New Jersey:  I'm not certain there is any way to drive out of the state without paying a toll.  You might as well hand over your wallet the second you enter, because it won't be long before they take your money.

IL may get a roasting, but the biggest problem is the other drivers, which isn't under IDOT's control.  The layout makes sense and having far left traffic signals is a huge help.

[hotdogPi]

-New Jersey:  I'm not certain there is any way to drive out of the state without paying a toll.

You can go north into New York without crossing the Hudson.

[1995hoo]

-New Jersey:  I'm not certain there is any way to drive out of the state without paying a toll.

You can go north into New York without crossing the Hudson.

I assumed he was kidding.

[hotdogPi]

-New Jersey:  I'm not certain there is any way to drive out of the state without paying a toll.

You can go north into New York without crossing the Hudson.

I assumed he was kidding.

One Philadelphia tour guide told my group the exact same thing: you can't exit New Jersey without paying a toll.

[jeffandnicole]

-New Jersey:  I'm not certain there is any way to drive out of the state without paying a toll.

You can go north into New York without crossing the Hudson.

I assumed he was kidding.

Many people not familiar from the area aren't.

[1995hoo]

-New Jersey:  I'm not certain there is any way to drive out of the state without paying a toll.

You can go north into New York without crossing the Hudson.

I assumed he was kidding.

Many people not familiar from the area aren't.

Perhaps, but the follow-up sentence (which "1" didn't quote) reinforced my feeling that he was playing on Jersey stereotypes. (Fully justified stereotypes, IMO.)

[jeffandnicole]

-New Jersey:  I'm not certain there is any way to drive out of the state without paying a toll.

You can go north into New York without crossing the Hudson.

I assumed he was kidding.

Many people not familiar from the area aren't.

Perhaps, but the follow-up sentence (which "1" didn't quote) reinforced my feeling that he was playing on Jersey stereotypes. (Fully justified stereotypes, IMO.)

There's people out there that absolutely believe you can't exit the state without paying.   A lot of people.  And granted, nearly every common exit does require some sort of toll, and the main highway that currently doesn't will have a toll next year.

[ekt8750]

-New Jersey:  I'm not certain there is any way to drive out of the state without paying a toll.  You might as well hand over your wallet the second you enter, because it won't be long before they take your money.

There's a free bridge in Trenton as well as Phillpsburg crossing the Delaware. Both are pretty far out of the way though.

Oh yeah the Scudder Falls Bridge is free for the time being but will eventually be tolled.

[jeffandnicole]

-New Jersey:  I'm not certain there is any way to drive out of the state without paying a toll.  You might as well hand over your wallet the second you enter, because it won't be long before they take your money.

There's a free bridge in Trenton as well as Phillpsburg crossing the Delaware. Both are pretty far out of the way though.

Oh yeah the Scudder Falls Bridge is free for the time being but will eventually be tolled.

Case in point.

There's 2 free bridges in Trenton for starters. 

If car drivers want to avoid the toll on US 1, they can take the Trenton Makes Bridge.  The detour is less than 1/4 mile in total, which is significantly less than "pretty far out of the way".  Timewise, add 2 minutes to the trip.