Bids were opened for two big projects this week. Unfortunately there appears to be no relief from construction cost inflation. Both jobs had only two bidders, and both are substantially over budget (18% and 29%). I'm thinking the Denton project will proceed, but the Red River project may be subject to review.
I-35 from the split point of 35E and 35W, north to Loop 288 (in Denton)
Bid opening page (http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/04043001.htm)
Observations: Looking at the plans, I-35 north of the split point will generally have 9 main lanes, 5 northbound and 4 southbound. The southbound direction includes pavement for the 5th lane but it is striped off. (Maybe it will be put into service when I-35W is widened?) There are auxiliary lanes just north of the split point. There is an unpaved median for about 2 miles north of the split point.
County: DENTON Let Date: 04/04/24
Type: INTERCHANGE IMPROVEMENT Seq No: 3001
Time: 0 X Project ID: F 2024(944)
Highway: IH 35 Contract #: 04243001
Length: 4.803 CCSJ: 0195-03-087
Limits:
From: N TEXAS BLVD Check: $100,000
To: US 77 NORTH OF DENTON Misc Cost:
Estimate $517,836,770.28 % Over/Under Company
Bidder 1 $611,023,840.70 +18.00% SEMA CONSTRUCTION, INC.
Bidder 2 $673,884,209.99 +30.13% WEBBER, LLC
I-35 at Oklahoma border, new Red River bridge and rebuild freeway 7 miles southward
Bid opening page (http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/04053202.htm)
Observations: This project expands to 3x3, but includes pavement (in the form of extra wide shoulders) or "interim berm" provision for ultimate 4x4.
County: COOKE Let Date: 04/05/24
Type: WIDEN ROAD - ADD LANES Seq No: 3202
Time: 1588 WORKING DAYS Project ID: F 2024(845)
Highway: IH 35 Contract #: 04243202
Length: 13.951 CCSJ: 0194-01-010
Limits:
From: ON IH 35 AT THE RED RIVER BRIDGE Check: $100,000
To: . Misc Cost:
Estimate $374,221,475.10 % Over/Under Company
Bidder 1 $482,134,094.98 +28.84% AUSTIN BRIDGE & ROAD SERVICES, LP
ZACHRY CONSTRUCTION CORPORATION
Bidder 2 $533,942,003.00 +42.68% WEBBER, LLC
Finally. That stretch of I-35 is a choke point even when there's no rush-hour traffic.
Yeah, improvements from the red river to Denton cannot come quick enough. This entire stretch needs to be four lanes each way and modernized.
LOL, no, 4-lanes north of Gainesville is not needed, nor will it be any time soon, when I-45 between Dallas and Houston isn't even yet 3-lanes for a long stretch.
Quote from: armadillo speedbump on April 10, 2024, 11:45:10 PMLOL, no, 4-lanes north of Gainesville is not needed, nor will it be any time soon, when I-45 between Dallas and Houston isn't even yet 3-lanes for a long stretch.
Well, Texas is sure planning for it. Regardless Las, I wasn't even necessarily focused on that section but yes, I do think they might as well and go for it anyways and future proof it. Since we want to get so specific, yes, the area of I 35 in North Texas I was more or less focused on was between Gainesville and Denton.
Again, the plan is for 35 to be four lanes each way to mile marker one in Oklahoma over the red river.
They might as well prep it for 4-lanes in each direction. If the metro keeps growing at this rate, I would not be surprised at all if most of the area between Denton and Gainesville becomes suburbanized. Plus, it is one of the main interstates in the nation serving a lot of truck traffic from Mexico. It would be a shame if they only prepped for 6-lanes and then discovered a couple years later that it needs 8.
What are the traffic counts for that segment of Interstate 35 in Texas? Does it warrant an expansion to eight lanes instead of merely an expansion to six lanes?
I don't know what the exact traffic counts are. But I just know from driving that road so many times it needs to be eight lanes. It goes from having perfectly calm and somewhat orderly traffic North of Ardmore to just complete chaos once you pass thackerville. At bare minimum it needs to be eight lanes from Gainesville to Denton
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 11, 2024, 05:24:06 PMWhat are the traffic counts for that segment of Interstate 35 in Texas? Does it warrant an expansion to eight lanes instead of merely an expansion to six lanes?
https://www.txdot.gov/apps/statewide_mapping/StatewidePlanningMap.html
TxDOT traffic modeling shows an average traffic volume of 50,000 near the Oklahoma state line, increasing to 75,000 near Denton.
I suppose it depends on future growth projections (suburban expansion) in the corridor whether six or eight lanes are required.
(https://i.ibb.co/JHz26Tx/AADT.png)
As a UT fan, any use of my tax dollars to help OU fans get to Dallas is a non-starter for me.
The governor as a fellow longhorn must stand up to such fiscal frivolousness.
He better not rollover and let out of state crimson and cream influences dictate Texas policy.
I can not stress this enough:
By The Time Interstate 35 Is Widened To 8 Lanes + Frontage Roads,
It Would Be Too Late.
Every Road Every Where Is Going To Be Overcrowded.
Too many nay sayers apparently not considering the large amount of time to even begin construction.
The Interstate 35, with nearby Win Star, is at least going to need the area clear for an eventual stripe of 8 lanes. Interstate 35 also has a Traffic Congestion DAILY. There are numerous areas that require safety upgrades. And then after all that is said and done, there is the Valley View that is no other option to Grade Separate The B.N.S.F. Lines except to perhaps trench the North Bound Frontage Road not unlike The College Station Intersection.
Also I have no knowledge regarding The Necessary Superhighway ... ( Eventual Interstate 45 ) ... except that it should be focused on trenching The Interstate 345 to make The New Urbanists go away.
If they're going to re-build the I-35 bridges over the Red River they might as well build them with 4x4 lanes capacity even if they're only striped initially as 3x3. Such bridges have to last for multiple decades.
Population growth in the metroplex doesn't appear to be slowing down at all. In the immediate area near Gainesville we could see an enormous amount of new development all around the Lake Texoma region. Oklahoma isn't growing nearly as fast, but the OKC metro is one of the few bright spots in the Sooner state. All of this is going to translate to a lot more traffic on I-35.
Did all of y'all freaking out about the need to build for future expansion not read the original post? It says right there:
I-35 at Oklahoma border, new Red River bridge and rebuild freeway 7 miles southward
Bid opening page
Observations: This project expands to 3x3, but includes pavement (in the form of extra wide shoulders) or "interim berm" provision for ultimate 4x4.
And no one has argued against the logical concept of prepping for future expansion when the cost is reasonable.
As to growth, the Red River bridge is 70 miles north of downtown Fort Worth. The current northern edge of the DFW suburbs along I-35 is where it is intersected by Denton's northern loop, 33 miles south of the Red River bridge. Other than a few pockets of new subdivisions in Sanger and one in Valley View, virtually all the growth north of Denton and Pilot Point has been rural or exurban. Ranches, smaller horse plots, and acre+ large lot septic residences. Valley View to the Red River isn't going to fill up with suburbs in the next decade, or two, or three. Ft. Worth to Denton hasn't even finished filling in.
"Fast growing!" Cooke County, TX (which includes Gainesville), only grew from 38,000 to 41,000 for 2010-2020. The south end of the county is 21 miles south of the Red River bridge. Love County, OK to the north grew from 9,000 to 10,000 in the same time period. The next county to the north, Carter (Ardmore) also only grew by 1,000 in those 10 years.
3x3 north of Denton will be sufficient for many years to come, especially north of Sanger.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 12, 2024, 08:55:57 PMIf they're going to re-build the I-35 bridges over the Red River they might as well build them with 4x4 lanes capacity even if they're only striped initially as 3x3. Such bridges have to last for multiple decades.
Population growth in the metroplex doesn't appear to be slowing down at all. In the immediate area near Gainesville we could see an enormous amount of new development all around the Lake Texoma region. Oklahoma isn't growing nearly as fast, but the OKC metro is one of the few bright spots in the Sooner state. All of this is going to translate to a lot more traffic on I-35.
ODOT has already announced the bridges will be 4x4 with a 3rd bridge for the frontage road. WinStar will continue to generate
tax dollars tribal revenue for
OK the Chickasaw Nation from all the Texans heading north to gamble.
Quote from: armadillo speedbump on April 13, 2024, 10:50:03 AMDid all of y'all freaking out about the need to build for future expansion not read the original post? It says right there:
I-35 at Oklahoma border, new Red River bridge and rebuild freeway 7 miles southward
Bid opening page
Observations: This project expands to 3x3, but includes pavement (in the form of extra wide shoulders) or "interim berm" provision for ultimate 4x4.
And no one has argued against the logical concept of prepping for future expansion when the cost is reasonable.
As to growth, the Red River bridge is 70 miles north of downtown Fort Worth. The current northern edge of the DFW suburbs along I-35 is where it is intersected by Denton's northern loop, 33 miles south of the Red River bridge. Other than a few pockets of new subdivisions in Sanger and one in Valley View, virtually all the growth north of Denton and Pilot Point has been rural or exurban. Ranches, smaller horse plots, and acre+ large lot septic residences. Valley View to the Red River isn't going to fill up with suburbs in the next decade, or two, or three. Ft. Worth to Denton hasn't even finished filling in.
"Fast growing!" Cooke County, TX (which includes Gainesville), only grew from 38,000 to 41,000 for 2010-2020. The south end of the county is 21 miles south of the Red River bridge. Love County, OK to the north grew from 9,000 to 10,000 in the same time period. The next county to the north, Carter (Ardmore) also only grew by 1,000 in those 10 years.
3x3 north of Denton will be sufficient for many years to come, especially north of Sanger.
They might as well prep it for 8-lanes. Yes, Ft. Worth to Denton is filling in, but I-35W on that stretch already needs to be 3x3 at least. By prepping it for 4-lanes, they'll avoid the problem of being caught off guard if growth explodes in that area. They don't have to pave the entire way for 4-lanes, but I think all the bridges at least should have enough room to be 4x4 so if and when they do upgrade it to 8-lanes it will be a fairly easy upgrade
Both I-35 projects were approved by the commission on April 25.
There was discussion of the cost overruns, particularly the north project at the Oklahoma border. The TxDOT contracting director says they are looking into smaller projects to attract more bidders, but many large projects are not suitable to be split into multiple small projects.
Quote from: DNAguy on April 12, 2024, 01:23:48 PMAs a UT fan, any use of my tax dollars to help OU fans get to Dallas is a non-starter for me.
The governor as a fellow longhorn must stand up to such fiscal frivolousness.
He better not rollover and let out of state crimson and cream influences dictate Texas policy.
Suggesting that programming of transportation projects should be based not on actual need but on college football loyalties is absolutely unhinged behavior.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2024, 07:47:39 AMQuote from: DNAguy on April 12, 2024, 01:23:48 PMAs a UT fan, any use of my tax dollars to help OU fans get to Dallas is a non-starter for me.
The governor as a fellow longhorn must stand up to such fiscal frivolousness.
He better not rollover and let out of state crimson and cream influences dictate Texas policy.
Suggesting that programming of transportation projects should be based not on actual need but on college football loyalties is absolutely unhinged behavior.
Nah. I'm with him on keeping OU fans out of Dallas.
Quote from: Rothman on April 27, 2024, 10:14:25 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2024, 07:47:39 AMQuote from: DNAguy on April 12, 2024, 01:23:48 PMAs a UT fan, any use of my tax dollars to help OU fans get to Dallas is a non-starter for me.
The governor as a fellow longhorn must stand up to such fiscal frivolousness.
He better not rollover and let out of state crimson and cream influences dictate Texas policy.
Suggesting that programming of transportation projects should be based not on actual need but on college football loyalties is absolutely unhinged behavior.
Nah. I'm with him on keeping OU fans out of Dallas.
That's ridiculous to oppose a highway upgrade based off of OU fans coming into Texas. It's not like they're going to be deterred from coming to a football game because a highway is 4-lanes instead of 6-lanes. Might as well get the upgrade because it will be needed in the future
Quote from: BJ59 on April 27, 2024, 04:19:45 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 27, 2024, 10:14:25 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2024, 07:47:39 AMQuote from: DNAguy on April 12, 2024, 01:23:48 PMAs a UT fan, any use of my tax dollars to help OU fans get to Dallas is a non-starter for me.
The governor as a fellow longhorn must stand up to such fiscal frivolousness.
He better not rollover and let out of state crimson and cream influences dictate Texas policy.
Suggesting that programming of transportation projects should be based not on actual need but on college football loyalties is absolutely unhinged behavior.
Nah. I'm with him on keeping OU fans out of Dallas.
That's ridiculous to oppose a highway upgrade based off of OU fans coming into Texas. It's not like they're going to be deterred from coming to a football game because a highway is 4-lanes instead of 6-lanes. Might as well get the upgrade because it will be needed in the future
I don't know. If you want to keep the riff raff out, it does seem like policy options are available. Perhaps a toll on just out-of-staters would work...
Thry are trolling and I don't care for college football but I find it stupid.
Time for this discussion to be locked ?! If any body is concerned about tax dollars being wasted, perhaps they should be concerned that their tax dollars are paying for D.O.T. Employees to hijack discussions, spread narratives and other oppositions, for the most childish of reasons. Keep your toxic attitudes off of here AND the roads.
Quote from: In_Correct on April 28, 2024, 01:42:18 AMTime for this discussion to be locked ?! If any body is concerned about tax dollars being wasted, perhaps they should be concerned that their tax dollars are paying for D.O.T. Employees to hijack discussions, spread narratives and other oppositions, for the most childish of reasons. Keep your toxic attitudes off of here AND the roads.
Last I checked, DOT employees were still allowed to have a sense of humor, just like other human beings. But, thank you for the reminder that there are indeed people that do not detect irony, sarcasm, lightheartedness, or nuance out there.
Quote from: Rothman on April 28, 2024, 08:52:06 AMQuote from: In_Correct on April 28, 2024, 01:42:18 AMTime for this discussion to be locked ?! If any body is concerned about tax dollars being wasted, perhaps they should be concerned that their tax dollars are paying for D.O.T. Employees to hijack discussions, spread narratives and other oppositions, for the most childish of reasons. Keep your toxic attitudes off of here AND the roads.
Last I checked, DOT employees were still allowed to have a sense of humor, just like other human beings. But, thank you for the reminder that there are indeed people that do not detect irony, sarcasm, lightheartedness, or nuance out there.
Agreed, but it also seems like this is a running joke that is beaten to death and it isn't really funny or needed for a thread discussing a highway expansion in North Texas. Come up with something original.
And as for the thread being locked, I would think that would be a bit of an overkill.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 28, 2024, 09:46:39 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 28, 2024, 08:52:06 AMQuote from: In_Correct on April 28, 2024, 01:42:18 AMTime for this discussion to be locked ?! If any body is concerned about tax dollars being wasted, perhaps they should be concerned that their tax dollars are paying for D.O.T. Employees to hijack discussions, spread narratives and other oppositions, for the most childish of reasons. Keep your toxic attitudes off of here AND the roads.
Last I checked, DOT employees were still allowed to have a sense of humor, just like other human beings. But, thank you for the reminder that there are indeed people that do not detect irony, sarcasm, lightheartedness, or nuance out there.
Agreed, but it also seems like this is a running joke that is beaten to death and it isn't really funny or needed for a thread discussing a highway expansion in North Texas. Come up with something original.
And as for the thread being locked, I would think that would be a bit of an overkill.
It is a message board, and difficult to interpret comedy. If there was any smileys used, I did not notice them.
Also I am trying to figure out any possible justifiable reasons for these absurd reactions toward Oklahoma, which Texas has highways connected to. It seems that Nay Sayers on here are worried that Texas is paying for Oklahoma's Roads. I very much doubt such things actually occur.
The dangerous situations and traffic problems in for example Interstate 35 in Texas is absolutely nothing to joke about. Seeing fatalities, or otherwise traffic congestions in areas such as the main lanes and / or the Interchange Ramps ( which includes automobiles lined up in the shoulders ) I find very difficult to laugh.
In a more literal sense the same argument often seems to be made for expanding I-15 from Barstow to Primm. Why should california pay for upgrading a highway that gets people out of the state to spend money. Well, my opinion is because they have an obligation to upgrade the road to keep traffic moving at acceptable levels and keep people on its roads as safe as possible whether they're residents or not.
Quote from: In_Correct on April 28, 2024, 09:58:33 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on April 28, 2024, 09:46:39 AMQuote from: Rothman on April 28, 2024, 08:52:06 AMQuote from: In_Correct on April 28, 2024, 01:42:18 AMTime for this discussion to be locked ?! If any body is concerned about tax dollars being wasted, perhaps they should be concerned that their tax dollars are paying for D.O.T. Employees to hijack discussions, spread narratives and other oppositions, for the most childish of reasons. Keep your toxic attitudes off of here AND the roads.
Last I checked, DOT employees were still allowed to have a sense of humor, just like other human beings. But, thank you for the reminder that there are indeed people that do not detect irony, sarcasm, lightheartedness, or nuance out there.
Agreed, but it also seems like this is a running joke that is beaten to death and it isn't really funny or needed for a thread discussing a highway expansion in North Texas. Come up with something original.
And as for the thread being locked, I would think that would be a bit of an overkill.
It is a message board, and difficult to interpret comedy. If there was any smileys used, I did not notice them.
Also I am trying to figure out any possible justifiable reasons for these absurd reactions toward Oklahoma, which Texas has highways connected to. It seems that Nay Sayers on here are worried that Texas is paying for Oklahoma's Roads. I very much doubt such things actually occur.
The dangerous situations and traffic problems in for example Interstate 35 in Texas is absolutely nothing to joke about. Seeing fatalities, or otherwise traffic congestions in areas such as the main lanes and / or the Interchange Ramps ( which includes automobiles lined up in the shoulders ) I find very difficult to laugh.
The rivalry between Oklahoma and Texas is legendary, hence DNAGuy's snark and me running with it. Don't forget the two states fought a war against each other.
Worked with a guy from Norman that would have made similar snark about Texans coming northward.
It was just a fun, ridiculous premise. Don't overthink it.
I think DNAGuy was serious. Scott5114 says (not in this thread) he's not the only one with that belief.
Quote from: Plutonic PandaIn a more literal sense the same argument often seems to be made for expanding I-15 from Barstow to Primm. Why should california pay for upgrading a highway that gets people out of the state to spend money. Well, my opinion is because they have an obligation to upgrade the road to keep traffic moving at acceptable levels and keep people on its roads as safe as possible whether they're residents or not.
Just in case any lawmakers from California forgot, it's the INTERSTATE highway system. It's supposed to be a NATIONAL highway network rather than a bunch of different local roads poorly stitched together. A great deal of the traffic is commercial in nature, travels great distances and does cross state lines.
I've seen plenty of the Oklahoma vs Texas jokes and rivalry -largely influenced by the college football thing. It kind of sucks both OU and UT are going to the SEC rather than just one school or the other. The rivalry will remain intact along with all the tired bullshit connected to it.
Currently, I-35 drops down to just 2 lanes in each direction just North of the US-380 exit in Denton. That's ridiculous. I-35 should have already been 3x3 lanes from the I-35E/W split up to the Red River a long time ago. Some of these current 2-lane sections need to be expanded to at least 4 lanes. In Denton I-35 probably needs to be at least a 5x5 arrangement leading into the E/W split,
if not even wider. I-35 construction in Gainesville is an example of playing catch-up.
ODOT expanded I-35 to 3 lanes in each direction from the Red River up to Rogers Road in Thackerville -largely to improve traffic movement to casinos. Plenty of space is available in the median to add additional lanes when needed. Most of the casino customers at places like WinStar are from Texas. Those casinos tend to provide more benefit to tribes (and "white" investors) than they do the state of Oklahoma. ODOT widened the road anyway because traffic is still traffic no matter what license plates are on the vehicles. It's a safety issue.
I've personally never found I-35 over the Red River to be intolerably congested, but it does carry significant volumes for a rural Interstate, and the northern of the two projects under discussion will finally remove the 45 MPH advisory curve at the south end of the bridge. I've always found it ironic that drivers on this route have to slow down when entering the state that has 75 MPH speed limits on two-lane rural highways.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 28, 2024, 10:06:04 AMIn a more literal sense the same argument often seems to be made for expanding I-15 from Barstow to Primm. Why should California pay for upgrading a highway that gets people out of the state to spend money. Well, my opinion is because they have an obligation to upgrade the road to keep traffic moving at acceptable levels and keep people on its roads as safe as possible whether they're residents or not.
I suspect California's hands may be tied since there is no plausible way to argue that a project adding lanes to I-15 won't increase VMT and thus be forbidden under current state law.
Oh I'm very familiar with that law. CAHWYGUY told me all about it. It's one of the dumbest laws I've seen. So how orange county manage to continously widen its roads? How does caltrans figure this would increase VMTs on this section of I-15? I do believe induced demand exists to an extent and that there can be an argument made widening urban freeways would increase VMTs but is just on that particular road? Tens of thousands of parking spaces are being constructed in LA alone. Will that not increase VMTs? Will refusing to widen a road have unintended consequences because idling cars and stop and go traffic will emit just as much if not more pollution than free flowing traffic? I don't know nothing about that law makes a lick of sense to me. Someday I'll do more research on it to find out what it actually says. It's not a small document, at least what I came across one night.
But I am skeptical it will raise VMTs. It's mostly about truck traffic tying up automobile traffic. They're also supposedly actually working on Brightline West now so I'd imagine that will cut down on some car trips but they should still widen it to at least 3 lanes each way. If I had my way it'd be four lanes each way.
I also think the AG check point on I-15 at least should be removed for cars. That seems to be a huge source for backups. If they really cared they could do something but they give a shit. They had a project to open a shoulder to traffic during specific times. Big whoop. California just doesn't give a shit. They won't even do a study for crying out loud.
Well, back to I-35, I think this upgrade is much needed. I'm surprised that upgrades to the corridor have not been prioritized over other projects, such as US-75 in Far North Collin County and I-35E south of Waxahachie. These upgrades are needed, but I think I-35 prioritizes these, especially just north of the split in Denton.
Quote from: hotdogPi on April 28, 2024, 11:25:38 AMI think DNAGuy was serious. Scott5114 says (not in this thread) he's not the only one with that belief.
To put a finer point on it: whether or not DNAGuy was serious, I've met people who would say something like that and be 100% dead serious about it, so I don't think it being a joke is a safe assumption.
(Not that it makes much sense from a policy standpoint anyway...Oklahomans visiting Dallas bring money with them for food and hotel rooms, not all of them are OU fans, anyway, and I-35 would also be how most Kansans, Nebraskans, etc. would access Texas.)
Quote from: hotdogPi on April 28, 2024, 11:25:38 AMI think DNAGuy was serious. Scott5114 says (not in this thread) he's not the only one with that belief.
He's not being serious. He's just mad we keep coming down there to whip his team's backside. 17-8 over the last 25 years.
Signed, an OU grad.
https://www.txdot.gov/projects/projects-studies/wichita-falls/i35-cooke-county.html
You can download the schematics here.
They're not only going to expand the freeway, but they're also improving the geometry and curvature.
For example at the bridge across the Red River:
(https://i.ibb.co/gPRT7nS/I-35.jpg)
Nice. I like the plans calling for a 4x4 lanes configuration across the Red River and down thru Gainesville. One nit to pick though. On the Oklahoma side of the river their plans show two of the four lanes being dropped at the Border Casino exit and I-35 dropping to 2x2 there. I-35 is actually 3x3 configuration starting at that exit and going North to the WinStar Casino complex. The existing Red River I-35 bridge is still a 2x2 configuration.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 03, 2024, 11:37:35 AMNice. I like the plans calling for a 4x4 lanes configuration across the Red River and down thru Gainesville. One nit to pick though. On the Oklahoma side of the river their plans show two of the four lanes being dropped at the Border Casino exit and I-35 dropping to 2x2 there. I-35 is actually 3x3 configuration starting at that exit and going North to the WinStar Casino complex. The existing Red River I-35 bridge is still a 2x2 configuration.
Those are the schematics. The actual construction plans show Exit 1 (the Border Casino exit, to be signed as Merle Wolfe Road) as a multilane exit with one dropped lane and one option lane in the northbound direction.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on May 02, 2024, 01:20:45 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on April 28, 2024, 11:25:38 AMI think DNAGuy was serious. Scott5114 says (not in this thread) he's not the only one with that belief.
He's not being serious. He's just mad we keep coming down there to whip his team's backside. 17-8 over the last 25 years.
Signed, an OU grad.
I now agree this thread should be locked down.