Does the definition of a town verses city matter in population?

[roadman65]

I noticed that some states that define a city, town, village, or township, seem to not treat them the same in statistical documents.  Even someone on here said one town on Long Island can't be ranked in the City population statistics or that municipality would be larger than another city nearby.

Also from what I gather, in NJ Edison Township would be the fourth largest city in NJ if were chartered as a city instead of township.  Also if Woodbridge were a city it would be the next population center after Newark and Jersey City.  However, Paterson is ranked number three in population as it's the next city incorporated that ranks after not in overall municipality.

What difference does the type of government of a municipality make to make it in city ranking? Shouldn't a township be the same in data statistics for gathering and all municipalities be considered a city?

[hotdogPi]

For New England, I would definitely say it should be included in statistics.

For New York, the issue is double counting – villages are considered more important than towns, and villages are counted separately.

(edited to clarify)

[Brandon]

In Illinois, the size doesn't matter so much as the type of government.  We have villages that are the largest in the world such as the Village of Arlington Heights.  A township in Illinois is different than a town (i.e., Town of Normal), but no towns have been incorporated since the 1870s or so.

[Roadgeekteen]

In my opinion no. Biggest "city" lists should treat all municipalities equally.

[webny99]

For New York, the issue is double counting – villages are considered more important than towns, and villages are counted separately.

(edited to clarify)

Villages have a separate population figure, but the village count is included in the respective town population. For example:

The village of Hilton, NY had a 2010 population of 5,886.
The village is within the Town of Parma, which had a 2010 population of 15,633.

The town figure includes the village figure, and the village is still part of the town, so it would not be accurate to say the actual population of Parma is 9,747. Nor would it be accurate to add and say the population is 21,519, since 15,633 is the total.

I think it would be much simpler if every state did things the way NY does and incorporated every square inch of their state... but I do understand that things are different, especially in the South and West.
   

[JayhawkCO]

Growing up in the Midwest and West, I don't care about the different definitions.  Town and city are synonyms for me.

Chris

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Minnesota only uses cities for incorporated entities. I'll say "going into town"  as a colloquialism or refer to a small city as a "town" .

[jp the roadgeek]

I noticed that some states that define a city, town, village, or township, seem to not treat them the same in statistical documents.  Even someone on here said one town on Long Island can't be ranked in the City population statistics or that municipality would be larger than another city nearby.

The Town of Hempstead has over 750,000 people, and would be the 2nd largest city in NY after NYC if it were a city. It contains 22 villages and 37 hamlets. 

As for CT, it's all about how a municipality incorporates. All but one city is consolidated with a town by the same name (Groton being the only exception, which is why you see the control of "Groton City" for the CT 349 exit off of I-95).  It really has nothing to do with population size.  The Cities of Ansonia and Derby have only about 19,000 and 12,000, respectively.  Meanwhile, the Towns of West Hartford and Hamden both have over 60,000.

[1995hoo]

It depends on how many verses you choose to sing on a particular day.

[NWI_Irish96]

The biggest problem is that the terms city, town, village, and township mean different things in different states.

In Indiana, all incorporated places are either cities or towns. You must have a population > 20,000 to switch from town to city, but you don't have to. Cities < 20,000 when the rule was put in place have been grandfathered in.

Townships are subdivisions of counties, that include both incorporated and unincorporated areas within its boundaries. So someone who lives inside the boundaries of a city or town live in that city and town and also in a township. As structured in Indiana, townships are pretty worthless entities and should just go away, but that's a separate discussion.

[dkblake]

The biggest problem is that the terms city, town, village, and township mean different things in different states.

In Indiana, all incorporated places are either cities or towns. You must have a population > 20,000 to switch from town to city, but you don't have to. Cities < 20,000 when the rule was put in place have been grandfathered in.

Townships are subdivisions of counties, that include both incorporated and unincorporated areas within its boundaries. So someone who lives inside the boundaries of a city or town live in that city and town and also in a township. As structured in Indiana, townships are pretty worthless entities and should just go away, but that's a separate discussion.

North Dakota has 357 cities, over five times as many cities as New York, since every incorporated place is a city.

[kphoger]

Town and city are homonyms for me.

Huh?

[GaryV]

Michigan has counties, cities, townships and villages.  They provide varying services.  Cities can and do straddle county lines, and maybe villages can as well.

Cities typically have the most services, and the most taxes.  Police, fire, garbage, roads, parks, etc. Some cities may contract out for services - for example, Pontiac is patrolled by Oakland County Sheriff officers.  Cities are incorporated from all or portions of a township.

Townships were originally set by the old Northwest Territory surveys.  They were 6 mile squares.  Sometimes more than one survey township is combined into a township government, and one or two are split, such as Plymouth and Canton.  A subset of townships are charter townships.  The primary benefits are that charter townships can vote to levy higher taxes and cannot be annexed into a city.  Townships are grouped into counties.  Almost all township and county lines are straight, on survey lines, with a few exceptions where the borders follow a river or lake.

City and township clerks oversee elections and are responsible for voter registration (although much of the function of registration is handled by the Secretary of State).

Villages are incorporated areas within a township, offering a few additional services.  Some have a police force, while townships use the county sheriff.  Villages remain part of the township; cities are independent of the township.

[JayhawkCO]

Town and city are homonyms for me.

Huh?

Meant synonym.  Posted sans caffeine.

Chris

[kphoger]

I personally don't pay much attention to each state's legal definition.  Here's the way my mind works:

City – A big place with lots of stuff.  The kind of place people from surrounding communities travel to for shopping and entertainment and stuff.  A rough dividing line would be somewhere between 100k and 200k population.

Town – Anything smaller than a city that still has some sort of business economy.  A very rough dividing line for "small town" would be somewhere around 5k population.

Village – I rarely but occasionally use this term in reference to anything in the USA, but I do use it in the context of my travels to Mexico.  Generally, it means a small town that isn't incorporated.  I realize this definition would likely get wonky in some other parts of the country but, because I rarely use it, I don't really care.

Community – This could be similar to a village, except without much of an identity unto itself–like a more distinct version of a neighborhood.  These are places that likely don't even have a road sign telling you you're there, but they do have a name.

[webny99]

Community – This could be similar to a village, except without much of an identity unto itself–like a more distinct version of a neighborhood.  These are places that likely don't even have a road sign telling you you're there, but they do have a name.

In New York we call that a hamlet.

[kphoger]

In New York we call that a hamlet.

[1995hoo]

Community – This could be similar to a village, except without much of an identity unto itself–like a more distinct version of a neighborhood.  These are places that likely don't even have a road sign telling you you're there, but they do have a name.

In New York we call that a hamlet.

You're underscoring kphoger's point. It could be similar to a village, or it could not be.

[CoreySamson]

I think the city/town/village/hamlet/municipality/whatever debate is really silly, and I don't think it matters much.

For example, Wikipedia says this is a city, and this, a few miles down the road, is just a CDP whilst having more than 4 times the population of the former. Meanwhile, this town has less than half of the first place's population.

[1995hoo]

I think the city/town/village/hamlet/municipality/whatever debate is really silly, and I don't think it matters much.

For example, Wikipedia says this is a city, and this, a few miles down the road, is just a CDP whilst having more than 4 times the population of the former. Meanwhile, this town has less than half of the first place's population.

Then you have Clifton Forge, Virginia, which used to be an independent city but gave up that status in 2001 and reverted to being a town. Population 3,884, BTW. (Bedford and South Boston are two others that likewise reverted to town status.)

[Dirt Roads]

When I lived in Southwest Pennsylvania, Fayette County lost one of its cities (Connellsville) due to population loss, and lost the other one (Uniontown) not too long afterwards.  Both became boroughs for a while, but it looks like they [kinda] got their city statuses back.  The new system technically has four classes of cities:  Class 1 (Philly), Class 2 (de Burgh), Class 2A (Scranton), and Class 3 (everybody else that technically doesn't qualify as a traditional city anymore).

[US 89]

Growing up in the Midwest and West, I don't care about the different definitions.  Town and city are synonyms for me.

Same for me. In Utah, the only difference between a town and a city is population - with a few exceptions, cities have over 1000 people and towns do not. State law divides cities into five classes, and a town really could just as easily be called a 6th-class city.

There are also metro townships, which are a third type of incorporated municipality that don't have as much taxing power and are generally dependent on counties for a lot of services.

[Angelo71]

When I lived in Southwest Pennsylvania, Fayette County lost one of its cities (Connellsville) due to population loss, and lost the other one (Uniontown) not too long afterwards.  Both became boroughs for a while, but it looks like they [kinda] got their city statuses back.  The new system technically has four classes of cities:  Class 1 (Philly), Class 2 (de Burgh), Class 2A (Scranton), and Class 3 (everybody else that technically doesn't qualify as a traditional city anymore).

Good job! You escaped disgusting southwest Pittsburgh. Also, you forgot about Erie.

[Roadgeekteen]

When I lived in Southwest Pennsylvania, Fayette County lost one of its cities (Connellsville) due to population loss, and lost the other one (Uniontown) not too long afterwards.  Both became boroughs for a while, but it looks like they [kinda] got their city statuses back.  The new system technically has four classes of cities:  Class 1 (Philly), Class 2 (de Burgh), Class 2A (Scranton), and Class 3 (everybody else that technically doesn't qualify as a traditional city anymore).

Good job! You escaped disgusting southwest Pittsburgh. Also, you forgot about Erie.

Not again...

[Dirt Roads]

Also, you forgot about Erie.

Sorry, even Erie didn't make the cut.  They are considered a Third Class city as well.  I think this has more to do with the form of government than the type of urban environment.