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More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend

Started by monty, July 12, 2019, 04:23:31 PM

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tdindy88

Quote from: ITB on March 30, 2024, 04:26:03 PMYes, that seems to be the favored path forward. Only three interchanges are needed — 296th Street in Hamilton County and Division Road and CR 550 N (Sharpsville) in Tipton County. 

I don't see how 296th could be an interchange if we have 276th just two miles to the south. Wasn't there some thing with there being a four mile gap between exits or something? I would have had exits at 266th and 296th but we had to have a connection to some factories along 276th so I see that exit as serving both 266th and 296th Streets. Probably an overpass for that road.

As for CR 550 N, isn't that like right by the interchange with SR 931. I'm not sure how that would work and is access to Sharpsville that important? They can pretty easily get to US 31 heading north toward SR 26 or south toward Division Road.

That said, there's really only Division Road that should be a shoo-in for an interchange. Which is what's been discussed for a few years now. I feel that INDOT is doing this study just so they can stall for time a bit until they do the inevitable and build an exit there.

Beyond that, build overpasses and cul-de-sacs for the remaining roads. Make US 31 a freeway from I-465 to Kokomo, that should be a no-brainer at this point.

As for north of Kokomo, well, I'm open to more discussion on how that should be done going forward so I can understand studying that.


Moose

Any upgrade that isn't full interstate standards, or at least useful in getting the road to full interstate standards is a waste to me. That goes for US 30 and US 31 both.

No stupid J turns, low conflict intersections or any of this crap..

I really didn't realize it until the 69 upgrade.. how much better it makes the drive.
The deletion of all the access for the "hyperlocal" traffic has a dramatic effect of the quality of the drive for through traffic.

These the cars, farm trucks, and annoying things that turn onto the through road, drive slow, get in the way only go a few miles, and then turn off.. often needing to get into the left lane while being slow as a turtle because of an impending left turn.

Its amazing how much better of a drive the road is once its fully interstate standards.. even without extra lanes.

ITB

#702
Quote from: tdindy88 on March 30, 2024, 05:38:51 PM
Quote from: ITB on March 30, 2024, 04:26:03 PMYes, that seems to be the favored path forward. Only three interchanges are needed — 296th Street in Hamilton County and Division Road and CR 550 N (Sharpsville) in Tipton County. 

I don't see how 296th could be an interchange if we have 276th just two miles to the south. Wasn't there some thing with there being a four mile gap between exits or something? I would have had exits at 266th and 296th but we had to have a connection to some factories along 276th so I see that exit as serving both 266th and 296th Streets. Probably an overpass for that road.

As for CR 550 N, isn't that like right by the interchange with SR 931. I'm not sure how that would work and is access to Sharpsville that important? They can pretty easily get to US 31 heading north toward SR 26 or south toward Division Road.

Good points. The suggested interchange alternatives at 296th Street and CR 550 N (Sharpesville) are indeed close to already built interchanges. Very close.

It was noted in one of the Level Two studies that INDOT prefers having three miles between rural interchanges, but there can be exceptions. The key word seems to be "rural." At this time, the area around 276th and 296th streets is indeed rural. But will that be the case 10 or 15 years from now. Every year for the past several years, more than 2,000 new homes have been built in Hamilton County. The pace is showing no signs whatsoever of slowing. In 2023, the county issued 2,719 permits for new single family homes. And so far this year, for January and February, 474 permits have been issued. Not every permit issued equates to a housing start, but the percentage is around 97.5%. In 2022 and 2021, the numbers were 2,378 and 3,344, respectively.

Development is bound to push northward up the US 31 corridor. As the LEAP Innovation District is built out, pressure to build more homes in Hamilton will only increase. It could be argued that it makes sense to build an interchange at 296th Street because, in the not too distant future, the area might be transitioning to suburban.

For 296th Street, the alternatives put forward in the Level Two study are:
• reduced conflict intersection
• traditional interchange
• access modifications (close off intersection)

Note that an overpass alternative is not included. Given the alternatives, I don't see INDOT moving forward with an RCI. That leaves an interchange or closing the intersection. Yes, it is certainly possible the intersection will be recommended for closure. And, yet, 296th Street is a significant up-county arterial, so INDOT might be inclined to do the interchange.

As for CR 550 N in Tipton County, it's a difficult decision. For one, Tipton County needs an interchange in the north area of the county. It's only fair, for both the people who live up that way, and for county, which deserves a north county interchange. If not CR 550 N, where else can an interchange be placed? 300N? 450N? A solution would be to simply shift the interchange to the south, closer to 450N.

The alternatives moved forward for CR 550 N are:
• reduced conflict intersection
• access modification (right-in, right-out)
• traditional interchange w/roundabouts

It's doubtful a RCI will move forward as residents of Tipton County previously rejected the concept. RIRO? That's not an ideal situation, too, as drivers will be forced to travel to an interchange, either south or north, to go the other direction not allowed by RIRO. That leaves the interchange alternative. It's more workable if the interchange is moved to the south. Why the study didn't address that is puzzling. Good chance INDOT will move in that direction.

Another reason for a north Tipton County interchange is mobility. It's important to take into account how school buses, emergency vehicles, and farm vehicles will travel around. Essentially, without an overpass or interchange, the northern part of Tipton County will be divided in two. Is a north county interchange truly needed? I would say, yes, and the residents of the area will likely wholeheartedly agree.

And for those interested in the housing permit statistics, they can be found on the website of the Builders Association of Greater Indianapolis (BAGI) under the Market Info tab.



monty

"It's doubtful a RCI will move forward as residents of Tipton County previously rejected the concept. RIRO? That's not an ideal situation, too, as drivers will be forced to travel to an interchange, either south or north, to go the other direction not allowed by RIRO. That leaves the interchange alternative. It's more workable if the interchange is moved to the south. Why the study didn't address that is puzzling. Good chance INDOT will move in that direction."

The study does move the Sharpsville interchange option a quarter mile south by extending 525 N straight west from Sharpsville with a half mile new build extension to the new interchange. That roadway then hooks back north around the Beck's seed plant and then ends as a T intersection with 550 N. This may allow sufficient spacing to appease the split exit / merger lane with SR 931.

This would make for a perfect scenario for Sharpsville. The school, emergency services, and farmers would be well served. The "community" surrounding is primarily oriented east to west.  If there is no access to US 31, the western sector will become isolated. The SR 931 split interchange does not serve Sharpsville at all. The 600 N overpass provides some limited utility. 600 N west of the overpass bridge is a narrow rural road.

Without an interchange, the fire department or school traffic, as examples, would have to drive two miles north to cross over on 600 N or three miles north to SR 26 to access the highway. The third option to travel westward in the community would be to go five miles south to Division Road.

Traditionally, 450 N has been the primary east - west route corridor to cross US 31 and then jog up to 525 N on 550 W to travel into Sharpsville. My suggestion to the Propel Study was to interchange at 450 N. I like the 525 N extension and resultant interchange but suggest the western local connector ties into 450 N to provide better connectivity.


monty

silverback1065

INDOT should take over Division Road from 31 to 19 sign it as 28 and add an interchange at 31 and division.

ITB

#705
Quote from: monty on March 30, 2024, 08:40:36 PMThe study does move the Sharpsville interchange option a quarter mile south by extending 525 N straight west from Sharpsville with a half mile new build extension to the new interchange. That roadway then hooks back north around the Beck's seed plant and then ends as a T intersection with 550 N. This may allow sufficient spacing to appease the split exit / merger lane with SR 931.

Thanks for pointing out the suggested Sharpsville interchange alternative would be located at 525 N. I had missed that. In comparison to 550 N, the 525 N location seems more logical. For one, 525 N connects directly to the town of Atlanta. Of more significance, perhaps, there would be fewer business and residential relocations, if any at all, when building near 525 N. That's not the case at either 550 N or 450 N. Since the interchange would be near to the SR 931 interchange, it's possible, maybe even likely, the design would feature collector/distributor lanes.

I did take note of the mention that the specific location of the selected alternative would be determined after the Propel study has completed. That makes sense as the Propel study's purpose is to recommend what alternative, if any, should be built. As such, the 450 N location, perhaps shifted a bit to the north, might later be given serious consideration.

As some of you already know, later this year in November, a major contract to improve the US 31 corridor in Hamilton County is scheduled to be let. Originally, the letting of this contract was to take place in May but was pushed back. Most of the planned work will take place in Hamilton, but included as well, is a project to modify the SR 28 intersection in Tipton County. Here's what the contact entails:

• new bridge construction, 226th Street over US 31
• access control, US 31, from .46 mile North of State Route 38 to .6 mile south of 236th Street
• access control, from 3.0 miles N of SR 38 to SR 931
• new bridge construction, 266th Street over US 31
• interchange modification, SR 28 and US 31
• access control, from US 31 and 106 to SR 26
• surface treatment, ultrathin bonded wearing course, from I-465 N Junction to 0.71 mi N of SR 38

Each of the bulleted points are separate projects contained in the contract (B-42397) and are taken nearly verbatim from INDOT's 18-month letting list. At this time, contract documents are not yet available online, so it's not possible to determine to any specificity what each project entails. While it's clear two overpasses will be constructed, the scope of the "access control" projects seem more nebulous.  When the documents become available we'll have a better understanding of what will take place.

For those interested, here's a link to INDOT's 18-Month Construction Letting List, updated March 15, 2024. The projects included in Contract B-42397 are found on pages 117 and 118. The specific date of the letting is November 14, 2024.


cjw2001

I'm assuming the access control may be the promised installation of median cable barriers?

cjw2001

I just bumped into this new INDOT web site for the improvements of the US 31 interchange on I 465 on the north side.

https://levelup31.com/

WHAT IS HAPPENING ON LEVELUP31?

A lane will be added to the Eastbound I-465 and Westbound I-465 to Northbound US 31 ramps. These additional ramp lanes will merge down to the existing Northbound US 31 3-lane section by the time travelers reach 116th Street. The traffic from I-465 to Northbound US 31 currently merges with Northbound Meridian from the right, even though most of the traffic is from 465. The project will flip that movement, and the 465 traffic will become primary, while the Northbound Meridian traffic will merge in from the right. This will reduce the number of overall merges required for northbound travelers.


Great Lakes Roads

https://www.wishtv.com/news/local-news/indot-to-unveil-plans-for-construction-project-at-i-465-us-31-in-carmel/

Not even 10 years since this interchange was upgraded as part of the Hamilton County portion of US 31 to freeway standards, this interchange with I-465 will go through the 3rd upgrade since the '90s.

Started out as a standard diamond interchange, upgraded into a Parclo A-4 sometime in the '90s, then upgraded into a partial free-flowing interchange in the mid-2010s, and now this!
-Jay Seaburg

silverback1065

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on September 17, 2024, 03:16:10 AMhttps://www.wishtv.com/news/local-news/indot-to-unveil-plans-for-construction-project-at-i-465-us-31-in-carmel/

Not even 10 years since this interchange was upgraded as part of the Hamilton County portion of US 31 to freeway standards, this interchange with I-465 will go through the 3rd upgrade since the '90s.

Started out as a standard diamond interchange, upgraded into a Parclo A-4 sometime in the '90s, then upgraded into a partial free-flowing interchange in the mid-2010s, and now this!

It's for the best. This will make the merging issues go away. INDOT clearly didn't project the amount of growth correctly when they modified the interchange in the past! At least INDOT does a great job of identifying these things and getting around to addressing them quickly.

cjw2001

Here is the video from the public meeting for the 465 / 31 interchange project:


Project meeting display boards:  https://levelup31.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/LevelUp31-Display-Boards-FINAL.pdf

SSR_317

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on September 17, 2024, 03:16:10 AMhttps://www.wishtv.com/news/local-news/indot-to-unveil-plans-for-construction-project-at-i-465-us-31-in-carmel/

Not even 10 years since this interchange was upgraded as part of the Hamilton County portion of US 31 to freeway standards, this interchange with I-465 will go through the 3rd upgrade since the '90s.

Started out as a standard diamond interchange, upgraded into a Parclo A-4 sometime in the '90s, then upgraded into a partial free-flowing interchange in the mid-2010s, and now this!
I stated at the time this junction was being converted into a partial system interchange that INDOT was making a HUGE mistake in not making the I-465 to NB US 31 ramps two lanes rather than one each. Of course they didn't listen and here we are not ten years later having to rebuild it yet again. Given the political party who has been far too long in charge of this state (in my opinion), it's not at all surprising that INDOT was once again and as usual, "penny wise and pound foolish".

Life in Paradise

Quote from: SSR_317 on September 29, 2024, 04:37:46 PM
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on September 17, 2024, 03:16:10 AMhttps://www.wishtv.com/news/local-news/indot-to-unveil-plans-for-construction-project-at-i-465-us-31-in-carmel/

Not even 10 years since this interchange was upgraded as part of the Hamilton County portion of US 31 to freeway standards, this interchange with I-465 will go through the 3rd upgrade since the '90s.

Started out as a standard diamond interchange, upgraded into a Parclo A-4 sometime in the '90s, then upgraded into a partial free-flowing interchange in the mid-2010s, and now this!
I stated at the time this junction was being converted into a partial system interchange that INDOT was making a HUGE mistake in not making the I-465 to NB US 31 ramps two lanes rather than one each. Of course they didn't listen and here we are not ten years later having to rebuild it yet again. Given the political party who has been far too long in charge of this state (in my opinion), it's not at all surprising that INDOT was once again and as usual, "penny wise and pound foolish".
I wouldn't blame one party for INDOT's mistakes.  I remember the other party being in power and we were still getting rebuilds on intersections while the obvious solution was not on the table.  (One of the intersections is either on its 3rd or 4th pending rebuild)

mgk920

Such a 'promotion' for US 31 in IN might someday be an appropriate idea, but I would not expect it to happen before US 151 SW of Fond du Lac, WI is so 'promoted'.

Mike

hobsini2

Quote from: mgk920 on October 01, 2024, 01:52:53 AMSuch a 'promotion' for US 31 in IN might someday be an appropriate idea, but I would not expect it to happen before US 151 SW of Fond du Lac, WI is so 'promoted'.

Mike
If it was up to me, I would just extend I-196 south from Michigan.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

The Ghostbuster

If they did that, Interstate 196 should be renumbered to Interstate 67. Of course, 196 will never be extended, since where would it end? If the US 31 corridor between Indianapolis and South Bend ever becomes a full freeway, and gets the Interstate 67 designation (which I consider unlikely at the present time), then the 67 designation could potentially continue up the St. Joseph Valley Parkway to Interstate 94, then replace 196 to Grand Rapids. Outside of 31 becoming completely freeway between Indianapolis and South Bend, I would recommend no new Interstates being designated along the US 31 corridor.

hobsini2

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 01, 2024, 01:41:06 PMIf they did that, Interstate 196 should be renumbered to Interstate 67. Of course, 196 will never be extended, since where would it end? If the US 31 corridor between Indianapolis and South Bend ever becomes a full freeway, and gets the Interstate 67 designation (which I consider unlikely at the present time), then the 67 designation could potentially continue up the St. Joseph Valley Parkway to Interstate 94, then replace 196 to Grand Rapids. Outside of 31 becoming completely freeway between Indianapolis and South Bend, I would recommend no new Interstates being designated along the US 31 corridor.
Why just have it as an intrastate Interstate? Grand Rapids is a big enough metro to have an interstate corridor south to 465 in Indy.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: hobsini2 on October 01, 2024, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 01, 2024, 01:41:06 PMIf they did that, Interstate 196 should be renumbered to Interstate 67. Of course, 196 will never be extended, since where would it end? If the US 31 corridor between Indianapolis and South Bend ever becomes a full freeway, and gets the Interstate 67 designation (which I consider unlikely at the present time), then the 67 designation could potentially continue up the St. Joseph Valley Parkway to Interstate 94, then replace 196 to Grand Rapids. Outside of 31 becoming completely freeway between Indianapolis and South Bend, I would recommend no new Interstates being designated along the US 31 corridor.
Why just have it as an intrastate Interstate? Grand Rapids is a big enough metro to have an interstate corridor south to 465 in Indy.

I am not knowledgeable as to what it required beyond being a freeway for a road to be at interstate standards, but I think you could now have a continuous interstate following US 31 from the IN Toll Rd up to I-94, I-196 from I-94 to US 131, and US 131 from I-196 to US 10. That's plenty long enough to be designated as I-67.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

The Ghostbuster

The hypothetical Interstate 67 I mentioned would have had a southern terminus at the existing Interstate 465/US 31 interchange in Indianapolis, and a northern terminus at Interstate 96's Exit 37 (Interstate 196's existing northern/eastern terminus) in Grand Rapids. Sending any Fictional Highways Interstate up US 131 would be convoluted and unnecessary (although it would get rid of the short unsigned Interstate 296).

Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

hobsini2

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 01, 2024, 02:03:17 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on October 01, 2024, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 01, 2024, 01:41:06 PMIf they did that, Interstate 196 should be renumbered to Interstate 67. Of course, 196 will never be extended, since where would it end? If the US 31 corridor between Indianapolis and South Bend ever becomes a full freeway, and gets the Interstate 67 designation (which I consider unlikely at the present time), then the 67 designation could potentially continue up the St. Joseph Valley Parkway to Interstate 94, then replace 196 to Grand Rapids. Outside of 31 becoming completely freeway between Indianapolis and South Bend, I would recommend no new Interstates being designated along the US 31 corridor.
Why just have it as an intrastate Interstate? Grand Rapids is a big enough metro to have an interstate corridor south to 465 in Indy.

I am not knowledgeable as to what it required beyond being a freeway for a road to be at interstate standards, but I think you could now have a continuous interstate following US 31 from the IN Toll Rd up to I-94, I-196 from I-94 to US 131, and US 131 from I-196 to US 10. That's plenty long enough to be designated as I-67.
Honestly I would end it at I-96 in Grand Rapids.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

ibthebigd

After driving most the route from Indianapolis to Grand Rapids I'm all for I-67 becoming reality

SM-G996U


mgk920

Quote from: hobsini2 on October 01, 2024, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 01, 2024, 01:41:06 PMIf they did that, Interstate 196 should be renumbered to Interstate 67. Of course, 196 will never be extended, since where would it end? If the US 31 corridor between Indianapolis and South Bend ever becomes a full freeway, and gets the Interstate 67 designation (which I consider unlikely at the present time), then the 67 designation could potentially continue up the St. Joseph Valley Parkway to Interstate 94, then replace 196 to Grand Rapids. Outside of 31 becoming completely freeway between Indianapolis and South Bend, I would recommend no new Interstates being designated along the US 31 corridor.
Why just have it as an intrastate Interstate? Grand Rapids is a big enough metro to have an interstate corridor south to 465 in Indy.

Cough, cough . . . Wausau, WI?

Mike

NWI_Irish96

I don't think Indiana is in a hurry to upgrade the rest of US 31 to freeway, and they shouldn't, as getting more of I-65 and I-70 expanded to 6 lanes should be a higher priority.

Still, you can have a Grand Rapids-South Bend interstate right now, and I think it should be done.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

hobsini2

Quote from: mgk920 on October 02, 2024, 10:17:37 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on October 01, 2024, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 01, 2024, 01:41:06 PMIf they did that, Interstate 196 should be renumbered to Interstate 67. Of course, 196 will never be extended, since where would it end? If the US 31 corridor between Indianapolis and South Bend ever becomes a full freeway, and gets the Interstate 67 designation (which I consider unlikely at the present time), then the 67 designation could potentially continue up the St. Joseph Valley Parkway to Interstate 94, then replace 196 to Grand Rapids. Outside of 31 becoming completely freeway between Indianapolis and South Bend, I would recommend no new Interstates being designated along the US 31 corridor.
Why just have it as an intrastate Interstate? Grand Rapids is a big enough metro to have an interstate corridor south to 465 in Indy.

Cough, cough . . . Wausau, WI?

Mike
I-39 is no longer an intrastate Interstate.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)



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