I-240 extension in Oklahoma City

[Scott5114]

I'm still hoping for a Kickapoo-to-SH-9-to-SH-4 loop of some kind, sort of like how I-470 is a loop off of the I-435 loop.

Also, I know why a lot of people are suggesting the I-435 number for an outer OKC beltway, but I'd be kind of uncomfortable with using that number. Let Kansas City have that as their beltway; I'd rather bring back the I-440 number, which was actually used in OKC for a portion of what is now I-44 until I believe the 60s.

[hotdogPi]

Also, I know why a lot of people are suggesting the I-435 number for an outer OKC beltway

I can think of one special significance of the number 435, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Oklahoma City.

[plain]

Also, I know why a lot of people are suggesting the I-435 number for an outer OKC beltway

I can think of one special significance of the number 435, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Oklahoma City.

I mentioned I-435 but not as a number for OKC. I was comparing the KC beltway's routing to that of the proposed OKC I-240 extension.

[Bobby5280]

If it's meant to be an OKC bypass route for I-44 traffic, it really doesn't matter where you put it.

Unless OKC traffic gets really bad in the future I'll just stay on I-44 for trips from Lawton up to the Tulsa area and beyond. The Kickapoo Turnpike doesn't do anything for me in its current configuration.

I'd get more use out of the Kickapoo Turnpike if it extended all the way down to the OK-9 level AND extended West to the I-35 corridor in the Norman area. It would be even better still if the H.E. Bailey Turnpike extension was properly connected to I-35 by Riverwind Casino (rather than the dopey Breezewood that exists there now). Hell may freeze over before such an upgrade ever happens. It's lunacy how ODOT utterly failed to get ROW secured on the OK-4 and OK-9 corridors that would have made for a far better Southern extension of the Kilpatrick Turnpike. OK-9 going through the South side of Norman is likely in its best possible configuration: a four lane divided street with 11 traffic signaled intersections before one gets East of town.

In that respect, this huge re-naming of I-240 almost seems like an effort to mask over past failures in corridor planning.

[kphoger]

I don't understand putting I-240 signs up Kickapoo Turnpike.

Eh, it depends on what the intended purpose of the road is. ... If it's meant to be an OKC bypass route for I-44 traffic, it really doesn't matter where you put it.

Unless OKC traffic gets really bad in the future I'll just stay on I-44 for trips from Lawton up to the Tulsa area and beyond. The Kickapoo Turnpike doesn't do anything for me in its current configuration.

The stated purpose of the Kickapoo is this:

This project will allow for a connection from Eastern Oklahoma County to vital intersections for travel. This will produce a drive-time reduction to access Tulsa from the OKC Metro and a needed new loop to alleviate current congested traffic in the Oklahoma City area. Construction will link I-40 and I-44 (Turner Turnpike) in Eastern Oklahoma County.

[Scott5114]

That reads a lot like

I think this is needed.

[Bobby5280]

This project will allow for a connection from Eastern Oklahoma County to vital intersections for travel. This will produce a drive-time reduction to access Tulsa from the OKC Metro and a needed new loop to alleviate current congested traffic in the Oklahoma City area. Construction will link I-40 and I-44 (Turner Turnpike) in Eastern Oklahoma County.

That P.R. blurb makes me wonder if the people doing corridor planning in Oklahoma understand how to read a map. 20+ years ago ODOT and OTA squandered the opportunity to establish a Yukon/Mustang to Norman corridor for an eventual Kilpatrick Turnpike extension. Now we have this twisty curvy "extension" that merely hooks into Airport Road. I guess that bit of new road will be decent as an extension of I-240.

The Kickapoo Turnpike looks like it will be another missed opportunity. In order for that toll road to properly function as a true regional bypass for OKC the road has to be longer both North and South. The Southern part needs to go down as far as the OK-9 corridor and then somehow across to I-35. Even if that means going a bit South of Norman to get there. There does appear to be a bit of an open gap between Norman and Noble. The Northern part is extending the Kickapoo Turnpike up and West to I-35 somewhere between Edmond and Guthrie. That's what would make that turnpike far more functional. Throw in a proper H.E. Bailey Extension to I-35 and the turnpike would work better for I-44 traffic. Not until then however.

I don't really like driving on I-240 through OKC all that much. The EB I-44 exit to EB I-240 is not great. And going the other direction, the 25mph cloverleaf ramp really sucks for a freeway to freeway interchange.

[triplemultiplex]

I don't really like driving on I-240 through OKC all that much. The EB I-44 exit to EB I-240 is not great. And going the other direction, the 25mph cloverleaf ramp really sucks for a freeway to freeway interchange.

Yeah, someone should really do something about that

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't really like driving on I-240 through OKC all that much. The EB I-44 exit to EB I-240 is not great. And going the other direction, the 25mph cloverleaf ramp really sucks for a freeway to freeway interchange.

Yeah, someone should really do something about that

I'm going to post that on another website if you don't mind. I'll give you credit. I also would like to email this to OkDOT if you haven't already. This is an amazing interchange design.

Also, what program did you use to design that?

[JMoses24]

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2021/august/august-commission-meeting-wrap-up--updated-five-year-plan-for-ma.html

This afternoon, ODOT issued a press release detailing actions taken at their meeting Monday. The relevant portion of the release to this thread follows:

The I-240 designation is one step closer to being added to 75 miles of highways and turnpikes in the Oklahoma City metro area thanks to action by the Oklahoma Transportation Commission at its Monday, Aug. 2 meeting. As part of an item to add highway numbers to several Oklahoma turnpikes, the commission approved designation of the entire John Kilpatrick Turnpike and Kickapoo Turnpike along with segments of SH-152/Airport Rd., I-44 and I-40 as part of I-240, creating a continuous loop around the city.

[triplemultiplex]

I'm going to post that on another website if you don't mind. I'll give you credit. I also would like to email this to OkDOT if you haven't already. This is an amazing interchange design.

Go for it, man.
And thanks.  I should make more, but the desire to doodle interchanges ebbs and flows, you know?

Also, what program did you use to design that?

Adobe Illustrator.

[Mapmikey]

After seeing the thread regarding I-235 I noticed something I didn't remember from 40 years ago...namely I-240 used to continue around the west and north of OKC before being replaced by I-44.  I only remembered I-240 connecting to I-40 west of OKC and a piece of 240 became I-44.

Anyway, I know there is at least one example of a beltway designation being partly removed, then restored years later on the same highway (I-495 DC).  Should the I-240 Belt Buckle become a reality in OKC, will this be the first time a designation has been restored to a loop but on a completely different roadway?

[SkyPesos]

After seeing the thread regarding I-235 I noticed something I didn't remember from 40 years ago...namely I-240 used to continue around the west and north of OKC before being replaced by I-44.  I only remembered I-240 connecting to I-40 west of OKC and a piece of 240 became I-44.

I think it was I-440 that was replaced by I-44, not I-240.

[US 89]

After seeing the thread regarding I-235 I noticed something I didn't remember from 40 years ago...namely I-240 used to continue around the west and north of OKC before being replaced by I-44.  I only remembered I-240 connecting to I-40 west of OKC and a piece of 240 became I-44.

I think it was I-440 that was replaced by I-44, not I-240.

Wasn't I-440 renumbered as a 240 extension before 44 ever got extended through OKC?

[bugo]

I-440 was replaced by an extended I-240 in 1976.

[TheStranger]

Anyway, I know there is at least one example of a beltway designation being partly removed, then restored years later on the same highway (I-495 DC).  Should the I-240 Belt Buckle become a reality in OKC, will this be the first time a designation has been restored to a loop but on a completely different roadway?

I-280 in the Bay Area kinda fits this but doesn't:

- the northern portion in SF is not the original 1950s planned alignment (which would have paralleled Route 1/19th Avenue along the Junipero Serra Freeway that would have served as I-80's terminus in Golden Gate Park, before ending at a shared terminus with I-480 at today's Route 1/US 101 junction in the Presidio).  Instead, 280 in 1968 was rerouted along 1950s-1964 US 101 (1964-1968 Route 82) and the north segment of the otherwise nixed San Jose-SF portion of Route 87, for a planned but ultimately also-cancelled terminus with I-80 at the 80/480 interchange.

- The southern terminus was always at I-680 numerically, but 1950s-1965 this was actually today's I-880/US 101 junction!  1965 was when the extensions of 680 and 280 (along what had been proposed from 1963-1964 as a Route 17 realignment) into Alum Rock and downtown San Jose respectively were codified.

Could even argue the same thing happened with I-680:

- original terminus from the 1950s to 1976 was at I-80 in Vallejo

- from 1976 onwards, 680's terminus remains with I-80 - but now further northeast in the Cordelia area of Fairfield, along what had been former Route 21 (and parallel to a 1930s alignment of US 40).

210 in eastern Los Angeles County and all of San Bernardino County almost counts for this, but the segment east of Route 57 has not been signed as Interstate and the submissions to AASHTO for that were already 22-23 years ago and not followed up on.


---

Specific to Oklahoma's I-240...the portion of road on the southwest corner between I-44 and SH 152 would essentially be re-added to the route after being absent from it for 39 years!  Now that alone is interesting enough as one of the side effects of this wider loop concept.

[Scott5114]

I-440 was replaced by an extended I-240 in 1976.

And then I-240 was replaced by I-44 in 1982.

[sparker]

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2021/august/august-commission-meeting-wrap-up--updated-five-year-plan-for-ma.html

This afternoon, ODOT issued a press release detailing actions taken at their meeting Monday. The relevant portion of the release to this thread follows:

The I-240 designation is one step closer to being added to 75 miles of highways and turnpikes in the Oklahoma City metro area thanks to action by the Oklahoma Transportation Commission at its Monday, Aug. 2 meeting. As part of an item to add highway numbers to several Oklahoma turnpikes, the commission approved designation of the entire John Kilpatrick Turnpike and Kickapoo Turnpike along with segments of SH-152/Airport Rd., I-44 and I-40 as part of I-240, creating a continuous loop around the city.

"Main Route" and "Follow Route" -- that's the first time I've heard those terms applied to a multiplex.  Anyone know if that terminology has migrated out of OK?  Also -- is there any timetable for building the Kilpatrick extension down to 152?

[Scott5114]

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2021/august/august-commission-meeting-wrap-up--updated-five-year-plan-for-ma.html

This afternoon, ODOT issued a press release detailing actions taken at their meeting Monday. The relevant portion of the release to this thread follows:

The I-240 designation is one step closer to being added to 75 miles of highways and turnpikes in the Oklahoma City metro area thanks to action by the Oklahoma Transportation Commission at its Monday, Aug. 2 meeting. As part of an item to add highway numbers to several Oklahoma turnpikes, the commission approved designation of the entire John Kilpatrick Turnpike and Kickapoo Turnpike along with segments of SH-152/Airport Rd., I-44 and I-40 as part of I-240, creating a continuous loop around the city.

"Main Route" and "Follow Route" -- that's the first time I've heard those terms applied to a multiplex.  Anyone know if that terminology has migrated out of OK?  Also -- is there any timetable for building the Kilpatrick extension down to 152?

I think it probably comes from '90s ODOT signage practices–"US-77 NORTH/FOLLOW I-35", for example.

The Kilpatrick extension opened in early 2020.

[abqtraveler]

That I-240 extension is just plain goofy. Is it going to have four cardinal directions? Will there be an overlap (follow route in ODOT-speak) with I-40 east of OKC?

A beltway using all four cardinal directions has precedent (I-435 for instance). According to the proposal, there will be an I-40/I-240/US-270/SH-3 concurrency in far east OKC.

And there's I-465 around Indianapolis and I-285 around Atlanta, and let's not forget the Capital Beltway (I-495, but should be I-666 ) to name a few full beltways around cities that use all 4 cardinal directions.

[abqtraveler]

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2021/august/august-commission-meeting-wrap-up--updated-five-year-plan-for-ma.html

This afternoon, ODOT issued a press release detailing actions taken at their meeting Monday. The relevant portion of the release to this thread follows:

The I-240 designation is one step closer to being added to 75 miles of highways and turnpikes in the Oklahoma City metro area thanks to action by the Oklahoma Transportation Commission at its Monday, Aug. 2 meeting. As part of an item to add highway numbers to several Oklahoma turnpikes, the commission approved designation of the entire John Kilpatrick Turnpike and Kickapoo Turnpike along with segments of SH-152/Airport Rd., I-44 and I-40 as part of I-240, creating a continuous loop around the city.

I would still think that extending the I-240 designation as ODOT proposes would require Congressional approval since interstate highways are generally not allowed to be tolled, save for the turnpikes that existed when the interstate highway system was created that were designated as interstates but allowed to continue collecting tolls.

[I-55]

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2021/august/august-commission-meeting-wrap-up--updated-five-year-plan-for-ma.html

This afternoon, ODOT issued a press release detailing actions taken at their meeting Monday. The relevant portion of the release to this thread follows:

The I-240 designation is one step closer to being added to 75 miles of highways and turnpikes in the Oklahoma City metro area thanks to action by the Oklahoma Transportation Commission at its Monday, Aug. 2 meeting. As part of an item to add highway numbers to several Oklahoma turnpikes, the commission approved designation of the entire John Kilpatrick Turnpike and Kickapoo Turnpike along with segments of SH-152/Airport Rd., I-44 and I-40 as part of I-240, creating a continuous loop around the city.

I would still think that extending the I-240 designation as ODOT proposes would require Congressional approval since interstate highways are generally not allowed to be tolled, save for the turnpikes that existed when the interstate highway system was created that were designated as interstates but allowed to continue collecting tolls.

As long as the turnpikes weren't built with federal funds they should be okay to be designated as interstates. The only real roadblock I could see is how janky of an alignment this extension would follow. I think if ODOT wanted it to just cover the Kilpatrick and end at the 35/44 split there would be no objections. Adding the Kickapoo just seems too convoluted, and I agree with Scott that the Kickapoo should be a part of a different route extending down to Norman.

[ethanhopkin14]

That I-240 extension is just plain goofy. Is it going to have four cardinal directions? Will there be an overlap (follow route in ODOT-speak) with I-40 east of OKC?

A beltway using all four cardinal directions has precedent (I-435 for instance). According to the proposal, there will be an I-40/I-240/US-270/SH-3 concurrency in far east OKC.

And there's I-465 around Indianapolis and I-285 around Atlanta, and let's not forget the Capital Beltway (I-495, but should be I-666 ) to name a few full beltways around cities that use all 4 cardinal directions.

I-410 and I-610 in Texas

[yakra]

The only real roadblock I could see is how janky of an alignment this extension would follow.

I-69 says hi

[SkyPesos]

The only real roadblock I could see is how janky of an alignment this extension would follow.

I-69 says hi

I-74 east of Cincinnati also says hi