Indiana Notes

[ITB]

Indiana and Kentucky are the 1st 2 states to complete their sections of 69. Tennessee I bet will be next, followed by Texas. I don't think Arkansas, Mississippi, and Louisiana will ever finish their portions.

I predict that we will end up with a situation where I-69 reaches Memphis and is complete, this will be enough to get long haul traffic to start using the road, and then Texas simply builds interstate to Texakana, and it's called done..

That may indeed be what ultimately happens. As usual, the core issue is money: Arkansas, Mississippi, and Louisiana just do not have the necessary funding mechanisms to build I-69. The only way forward, it seems, is federal legislation to specifically fund the project in those three states, in particular the bridge over the Mississippi River, which will likely be a billion dollar project.

For what it's worth, here's my take on how I-69 will move forward. In the next 10 to 15 years, Tennessee will probably complete I-69 to I-155. As for future construction toward Millington, it's more uncertain. The cost to upgrade 70 miles of US 51 to interstate standards, including bypasses, will be at least a billion, maybe $1.5 billion, or even more. That's going to be a steep hurdle for Tennessee to surmount.

In the upcoming years, Texas will continue to build I-69 both northeast and southwest of Houston. Texas has been focused on constructing bypasses around towns and cities, for instance, Diboll, Corrigan, and Nacogdoches. The contracts that have been awarded in recent years are mind-boggling in size. After the majority of the bypass projects complete, they'll turn to work on upgrading US 59 for the sections in between. In total, about 1,000 miles of I-69 are planned in Texas. That's not lane miles, but actual miles. It's going to take billions and billions and perhaps 20 to 40 years to get it all done, but Texas seems intent to do it.

[I-55]

Indiana and Kentucky are the 1st 2 states to complete their sections of 69. Tennessee I bet will be next, followed by Texas. I don't think Arkansas, Mississippi, and Louisiana will ever finish their portions.

I predict that we will end up with a situation where I-69 reaches Memphis and is complete, this will be enough to get long haul traffic to start using the road, and then Texas simply builds interstate to Texarkana, and it's called done..

This is the reality of most proposed interstate corridors right now. Whether it be I-14, 27, 69, 73, 74, there are 1-2 states that seem really enthusiastic about the route, 1-2 states that might take action if a completed route touches their state lines, and everyone else is not interested at all. For I-69, Indiana and Texas fall in the enthusiastic column, as significant work has unfolded to create new interstate. Kentucky doesn't really fit any category as most of I-69 there is on existing freeway with (relatively) small spot improvements. I think Arkansas would be in the enthusiastic column as well if it didn't have I-57 or I-49 to deal with (I personally see I-69 in AR being a two lane road for the next half century). Tennessee is only doing work because I-69 will dump into US-51, and the remaining states have better things to do.

Out of all the proposed interstates, I see I-69 making it to Memphis in 20-30 years, I-57 completed in 10-20 years, I-74 completed in NC in 15-30 years, I-49 partially completed in 30 years, I-14 and I-27 still on paper in 20 years, and anything else likely won't be considered until beyond 2050.

[silverback1065]

I just don't think we really need anymore new interstates outside of NC. the remaining ideas just seem very marginally useful where a divided highway would be just fine or in some cases nothing at all.

[ITB]

I just don't think we really need anymore new interstates outside of NC. the remaining ideas just seem very marginally useful where a divided highway would be just fine or in some cases nothing at all.

Undoubtedly, the building of interstates is going to continue. American drivers very much value the safety of interstates as well as their high speed limits, allowing vast distances to be driven in as little as a day. The construction of I-69, particularly in Indiana, notably showed other states that interstates could still be built and with public approval.

[silverback1065]

the resigning of 465 has begun to add 69 to every exit and mainline they overlap. I saw new signs going up at US 52 yesterday. Control cities of Evansville and FT Wayne have been added.

[ITB]

Besides, The Indiana portions of the ORX 69 project will be done in 2026. Not 2031. Indiana is going to build it ahead of the bridge project.

Admittedly it will lead to nowhere until the bridge is done, but Indiana will have built its section.

https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/section-3-indiana/

There is a whole thread for that part.

(image omitted)

Does this at least mean that Indiana and Kentucky have reached a consensus on the design of the crossing? If so, that's progress and a bit of good news in itself.

I was on the impression that it's currently in design. Is it not?

I reached out to the ORX project office about the status of the ORX bridge design and received this reply:

"The new I-69 bridge is expected to be a design-build project, and final design for the bridge won't be determined until a contractor is on board."

Although both Indiana and Kentucky continue to seek funding sources (grants, etc) to accelerate the project, construction at this time is still scheduled to kick off in 2027 and be completed in 2031.
 

[hobsini2]

the resigning of 465 has begun to add 69 to every exit and mainline they overlap. I saw new signs going up at US 52 yesterday. Control cities of Evansville and FT Wayne have been added.

I did notice that 69 shields where added at the I-65 interchange on the gantry above the BGS when I was in Indy on Saturday. However, on the approach to the interchange, those BGSs did not have the 69 shields yet.

[silverback1065]

the resigning of 465 has begun to add 69 to every exit and mainline they overlap. I saw new signs going up at US 52 yesterday. Control cities of Evansville and FT Wayne have been added.

I did notice that 69 shields where added at the I-65 interchange on the gantry above the BGS when I was in Indy on Saturday. However, on the approach to the interchange, those BGSs did not have the 69 shields yet.

this project should fix all instances of that.

[ITB]

Governor Mike Braun has appointed Kent Abernathy as INDOT Commissioner, replacing Mike Smith who served under former Governor Holcomb. Under Mike Smith's leadership, INDOT completed on time and on budget several important projects, including Section 6 of I-69 and the North split project in Indianapolis. Thank you for your service, Mike!

In other news, INDOT had an emergency letting on January 31 to fix an overpass crossing I-69 in Madison County. On January 24, a semi-truck collided with an SR 13 overpass support, causing significant damage to the bridge, resulting in the temporary closure of Interstate 69. E & B Paving was awarded the contract with a bid of $888,000.

INDOT also had a special letting on January 22 to award a contract to upgrade US 31 in Johnson County, adding auxiliary lanes and other improvements. The contract was awarded to Milestone Contractors with a bid of $66,256,195. Although Milestone's bid was $18 million over the engineer's estimate, the contract was awarded because it was one of three or more bids received.

[silverback1065]

Governor Mike Braun has appointed Kent Abernathy as INDOT Commissioner, replacing Mike Smith who served under former Governor Holcomb. Under Mike Smith's leadership, INDOT completed on time and on budget several important projects, including Section 6 of I-69 and the North split project in Indianapolis. Thank you for your service, Mike!

In other news, INDOT had an emergency letting on January 31 to fix an overpass crossing I-69 in Madison County. On January 24, a semi-truck collided with an SR 13 overpass support, causing significant damage to the bridge, resulting in the temporary closure of Interstate 69. E & B Paving was awarded the contract with a bid of $888,000.

INDOT also had a special letting on January 22 to award a contract to upgrade US 31 in Johnson County, adding auxiliary lanes and other improvements. The contract was awarded to Milestone Contractors with a bid of $66,256,195. Although Milestone's bid was $18 million over the engineer's estimate, the contract was awarded because it was one of three or more bids received.

geeze! that's waaay over the estimate! construction just keeps getting more and more expensive.

[I-55]

Governor Mike Braun has appointed Kent Abernathy as INDOT Commissioner, replacing Mike Smith who served under former Governor Holcomb. Under Mike Smith's leadership, INDOT completed on time and on budget several important projects, including Section 6 of I-69 and the North split project in Indianapolis. Thank you for your service, Mike!

In other news, INDOT had an emergency letting on January 31 to fix an overpass crossing I-69 in Madison County. On January 24, a semi-truck collided with an SR 13 overpass support, causing significant damage to the bridge, resulting in the temporary closure of Interstate 69. E & B Paving was awarded the contract with a bid of $888,000.

INDOT also had a special letting on January 22 to award a contract to upgrade US 31 in Johnson County, adding auxiliary lanes and other improvements. The contract was awarded to Milestone Contractors with a bid of $66,256,195. Although Milestone's bid was $18 million over the engineer's estimate, the contract was awarded because it was one of three or more bids received.

geeze! that's waaay over the estimate! construction just keeps getting more and more expensive.

And that's with material prices falling too, several projects I've worked on recently have bid well below two-year state averages for pavement items including HMA and aggregate.

[ITB]

Governor Mike Braun has appointed Kent Abernathy as INDOT Commissioner, replacing Mike Smith who served under former Governor Holcomb. Under Mike Smith's leadership, INDOT completed on time and on budget several important projects, including Section 6 of I-69 and the North split project in Indianapolis. Thank you for your service, Mike!

In other news, INDOT had an emergency letting on January 31 to fix an overpass crossing I-69 in Madison County. On January 24, a semi-truck collided with an SR 13 overpass support, causing significant damage to the bridge, resulting in the temporary closure of Interstate 69. E & B Paving was awarded the contract with a bid of $888,000.

INDOT also had a special letting on January 22 to award a contract to upgrade US 31 in Johnson County, adding auxiliary lanes and other improvements. The contract was awarded to Milestone Contractors with a bid of $66,256,195. Although Milestone's bid was $18 million over the engineer's estimate, the contract was awarded because it was one of three or more bids received.

geeze! that's waaay over the estimate! construction just keeps getting more and more expensive.

Suburban setting, tightly restricted lane closures, close coordination with utilities for potential utility relocations, labor intensive work with concrete frames, and so on. Indeed, the costs can pile up quickly.

INDOT also has had some notable misses recently with the engineer's estimate falling significantly below bids. On the US 31 project in Johnson County, they were fortunate to have received three bids, else the project would have had to be rebid later. Major estimate misses of last year included the project to add lanes to I-70 in Wayne County and the project to add lanes to I-65 in Clark County. They rebid the I-70 project with a modified estimate and were successful in awarding the contract. For the I-65 project they tried twice but each time only had one bidder whose bid was over the estimate. In March, they'll try again to award that contract.

[SEWIGuy]

Are the engineers making these estimates in-house or are they contractors?

[ITB]

Are the engineers making these estimates in-house or are they contractors?

While I don't know one way or the other, if pushed to say, I'd say they are in-house. To be sure, estimating the cost of road projects is akin to hitting a moving target. There are simply a great number of variables to take into account, and these variables are constantly changing. Large contractors tend to have seasoned, highly experienced estimators, as the success of their businesses depends on getting it right with bids. Others, like a small specialized bridge contractor, generally stay hands on to keep abreast of costs. It's not hard to slip behind, as costs including labor and materials, number of personnel needed, and those associated with updated environmental regulations are continually changing.

[I-55]

Are the engineers making these estimates in-house or are they contractors?

While I don't know one way or the other, if pushed to say, I'd say they are in-house. To be sure, estimating the cost of road projects is akin to hitting a moving target. There are simply a great number of variables to take into account, and these variables are constantly changing. Large contractors tend to have seasoned, highly experienced estimators, as the success of their businesses depends on getting it right with bids. Others, like a small specialized bridge contractor, generally stay hands on to keep abreast of costs. It's not hard to slip behind, as costs including labor and materials, number of personnel needed, and those associated with updated environmental regulations are continually changing.

The design engineer (usually a consultant firm) supplies quantities and estimated costs for the project. These costs are calculated based off unit prices of items from recent projects that have similar quantities to the proposed project (Example: striping 500' of roadway centerlines is much more expensive per foot than striping 5 miles). The BidTabs software will help display contractor bid prices on individual pay items, and you can set parameters including timeframe, project size, cost, and region vs state breakdowns. When there are low quantities of certain pay items, the contractor's bid price for that item can be anywhere from 20% to 300% of the engineer's estimate (to account for overhead costs of bringing out equipment, labor, etc.). From what I've seen on estimates lately is that asphalt and aggregate prices have fallen significantly from 2 years ago, so all these projects coming in over estimate could be contractors estimating with the old prices people got used to seeing for 2+ years.

[silverback1065]

Are the engineers making these estimates in-house or are they contractors?

While I don't know one way or the other, if pushed to say, I'd say they are in-house. To be sure, estimating the cost of road projects is akin to hitting a moving target. There are simply a great number of variables to take into account, and these variables are constantly changing. Large contractors tend to have seasoned, highly experienced estimators, as the success of their businesses depends on getting it right with bids. Others, like a small specialized bridge contractor, generally stay hands on to keep abreast of costs. It's not hard to slip behind, as costs including labor and materials, number of personnel needed, and those associated with updated environmental regulations are continually changing.

The design engineer (usually a consultant firm) supplies quantities and estimated costs for the project. These costs are calculated based off unit prices of items from recent projects that have similar quantities to the proposed project (Example: striping 500' of roadway centerlines is much more expensive per foot than striping 5 miles). The BidTabs software will help display contractor bid prices on individual pay items, and you can set parameters including timeframe, project size, cost, and region vs state breakdowns. When there are low quantities of certain pay items, the contractor's bid price for that item can be anywhere from 20% to 300% of the engineer's estimate (to account for overhead costs of bringing out equipment, labor, etc.). From what I've seen on estimates lately is that asphalt and aggregate prices have fallen significantly from 2 years ago, so all these projects coming in over estimate could be contractors estimating with the old prices people got used to seeing for 2+ years.

ya with inflation prices have spiked so high so fast it is very hard to get a good estimate. things are starting to fall back to equilibrium but it's still difficult to get a good estimate.

[ITB]

More Improvements to the Indiana Toll Road

ITR Concession Company LLC, the operator and concessionaire of the Indiana Toll Road, will be kicking off a major construction project in March from the Howe area in LaGrange County to the Ohio State line. That's the stretch from mile marker 123 to 157. The project, termed Push 4 by the ITRCC, includes extensive pavement rehabilitation, improving one interchange and rehabilitating 26 bridges, among other work.

Read more about it here.

[I-55]

More Improvements to the Indiana Toll Road

ITR Concession Company LLC, the operator and concessionaire of the Indiana Toll Road, will be kicking off a major construction project in March from the Howe area in LaGrange County to the Ohio State line. That's the stretch from mile marker 123 to 157. The project, termed Push 4 by the ITRCC, includes extensive pavement rehabilitation, improving one interchange and rehabilitating 26 bridges, among other work.

Read more about it here.

Would be nice if they were to implement open road tolling for E-ZPass customers as part of the toll plaza rehab, granted I will probably never drive through the eastgate plaza. Long overdue especially now that Ohio has it on the turnpike (in addition to the many other facilities that are now all ORT).

[jnewkirk77]

Here's a bill to watch in the Indiana General Assembly -- they're looking at tolls, and not just on Interstates, but certain unnamed other state highways as well.

HB 1461 would also eliminate the current provision that INDOT cannot toll a highway within 75 miles of the Indiana Toll Road.

Also in the bill is a requirement for local governments to impose surtaxes or wheel taxes (some do currently, but not all), if they want to be eligible for future Community Crossings grants. Those grants are used for local projects.

This bill has now passed out of the House Roads & Transportation Committee and will next be studied by the House Ways & Means Committee.

Details of the bill here.

Story from The Times of Northwest Indiana via Indiana Economic Digest here.

[The Ghostbuster]

Sine the Indiana Toll Road is the only toll road in Indiana (save for a few toll bridges), I doubt residents of the state will be too keen on having other roadways tolled as well.

[I-55]

Here's a bill to watch in the Indiana General Assembly -- they're looking at tolls, and not just on Interstates, but certain unnamed other state highways as well.

HB 1461 would also eliminate the current provision that INDOT cannot toll a highway within 75 miles of the Indiana Toll Road.

Also in the bill is a requirement for local governments to impose surtaxes or wheel taxes (some do currently, but not all), if they want to be eligible for future Community Crossings grants. Those grants are used for local projects.

This bill has now passed out of the House Roads & Transportation Committee and will next be studied by the House Ways & Means Committee.

Details of the bill here.

Story from The Times of Northwest Indiana via Indiana Economic Digest here.

This certainly goes much further than the original proposals limited to I-65 and I-70. If implemented I would hope their reciprocity agreement is closer to that of RiverLink and not ITRCC (as an I-Pass holder in Indiana I would not want the 3 cent surcharge on all tolls, nor the $1.50/month "maintenance fee" associated with an ITR E-ZPass).

Sine the Indiana Toll Road is the only toll road in Indiana (save for a few toll bridges), I doubt residents of the state will be too keen on having other roadways tolled as well.

Especially with how the ITR targets out of state traffic most people here have no interaction with it (unless you live in NWI or South Bend/Elkhart area) as it isn't on any normal traffic patterns.

[NWI_Irish96]

Here's a bill to watch in the Indiana General Assembly -- they're looking at tolls, and not just on Interstates, but certain unnamed other state highways as well.

HB 1461 would also eliminate the current provision that INDOT cannot toll a highway within 75 miles of the Indiana Toll Road.

Also in the bill is a requirement for local governments to impose surtaxes or wheel taxes (some do currently, but not all), if they want to be eligible for future Community Crossings grants. Those grants are used for local projects.

This bill has now passed out of the House Roads & Transportation Committee and will next be studied by the House Ways & Means Committee.

Details of the bill here.

Story from The Times of Northwest Indiana via Indiana Economic Digest here.

This certainly goes much further than the original proposals limited to I-65 and I-70. If implemented I would hope their reciprocity agreement is closer to that of RiverLink and not ITRCC (as an I-Pass holder in Indiana I would not want the 3 cent surcharge on all tolls, nor the $1.50/month "maintenance fee" associated with an ITR E-ZPass).

Sine the Indiana Toll Road is the only toll road in Indiana (save for a few toll bridges), I doubt residents of the state will be too keen on having other roadways tolled as well.

Especially with how the ITR targets out of state traffic most people here have no interaction with it (unless you live in NWI or South Bend/Elkhart area) as it isn't on any normal traffic patterns.

I'd love to see an amendment to this proposal that provides in state residents a partial tax credit for using the toll roads. Make sure the bulk of the burden is on out of staters.

[silverback1065]

what non interstate would be worth tolling here?

[NWI_Irish96]

what non interstate would be worth tolling here?

US 20/31 from Lincoln Way to CR 17

[hobsini2]

what non interstate would be worth tolling here?

Upgraded US 31 maybe between Indy and South Bend.