The Future of US 12 in Wisconsin

[Molandfreak]

Ugh. More mediocre and even downright terrible decisions from a DOT that was forward thinking when it came to building out expressways to adequately serve the state two decades ago.

[SEWIGuy]

Ugh. More mediocre and even downright terrible decisions from a DOT that was forward thinking when it came to building out expressways to adequately serve the state two decades ago.

I would suggest that a number of those expressways were overbuilt leaving other corridors wanting, and now they are playing catch-up with major projects like the current I-43 expansion and future I-41 expansion.

Furthermore, with the removal of the gas tax indexing to inflation, there just isn't enough money available.

[Molandfreak]

Ugh. More mediocre and even downright terrible decisions from a DOT that was forward thinking when it came to building out expressways to adequately serve the state two decades ago.

I would suggest that a number of those expressways were overbuilt leaving other corridors wanting, and now they are playing catch-up with major projects like the current I-43 expansion and future I-41 expansion.

Furthermore, with the removal of the gas tax indexing to inflation, there just isn't enough money available.

Yeah, for whatever reason it is a very popular opinion in the roads community to bash WisDOT for their philosophy in the '90s of actually caring about visitor experiences in the state, building out corridors that actually manage traffic safely and efficiently in rural areas. Could they have done without an interchange here and there? Absolutely. But they did the right thing in the grand scheme of things.

[SEWIGuy]

Ugh. More mediocre and even downright terrible decisions from a DOT that was forward thinking when it came to building out expressways to adequately serve the state two decades ago.

I would suggest that a number of those expressways were overbuilt leaving other corridors wanting, and now they are playing catch-up with major projects like the current I-43 expansion and future I-41 expansion.

Furthermore, with the removal of the gas tax indexing to inflation, there just isn't enough money available.

Yeah, for whatever reason it is a very popular opinion in the roads community to bash WisDOT for their philosophy in the '90s of actually caring about visitor experiences in the state, building out corridors that actually manage traffic safely and efficiently in rural areas. Could they have done without an interchange here and there? Absolutely. But they did the right thing in the grand scheme of things.

Some of them made obvious sense. WI-29 and US-151 are great examples. But there are others, US-53, US-10 west of Stevens Point, etc. are ones that the four lane expressway was simply overkill. Have you driven some of these highways? There just isn't any traffic.

And that overbuilding is why projects like the US-12 upgrade get pushed further into the future. And traffic actually uses these highways too.

[mgk920]

The most the DOT has on making US 12 a freeway is this freeway conversion study: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/12freeway/default.aspx. The last Public Information Meeting was in 2015, and it doesn't look like any of the improvements listed in the study will be implemented anytime soon.

As long as a corridor for it is being preserved, I'm happy.

Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

Whenever upgrades happen, interchanges at CTH K and the two STH 19 intersections should definitely be constructed.

[hobsini2]

Whenever upgrades happen, interchanges at CTH K and the two STH 19 intersections should definitely be constructed.

And not as those goofy J Turns like Wis 26 has south of Ft Atkinson.

[midwesternroadguy]

Whenever upgrades happen, interchanges at CTH K and the two STH 19 intersections should definitely be constructed.

Agreed.  I'd add the Sauk City bypass too.  With today's TPC announcement for I-90/94, US 12 will be even more backed up in Sauk City during the reconstruction of 67 (that's what they said) miles of the interstate.  Currently, on weekends US 12 backs up for 6 miles southbound on weekends.

[The Ghostbuster]

That's STH 60, not STH 67.

[JREwing78]

That's STH 60, not STH 67.

He was stating the reconstruction on I-39/90/94 between the Dells and Madison would span 67 miles. Not referencing Hwy 60.

If I was someone influential in the Dells area, I would be raising hell with WisDOT about the (lack of) work to complete the US-12 Sauk City bypass. 

[SEWIGuy]

That's STH 60, not STH 67.

He was stating the reconstruction on I-39/90/94 between the Dells and Madison would span 67 miles. Not referencing Hwy 60.

If I was someone influential in the Dells area, I would be raising hell with WisDOT about the (lack of) work to complete the US-12 Sauk City bypass.

I think they are overjoyed that the I-39/90/94 project is going to be the next big one - that highway is significantly more important than US-12. Who isn't going to the Dells because it takes a few extra minutes to drive through Sauk City?

[JREwing78]

If I was someone influential in the Dells area, I would be raising hell with WisDOT about the (lack of) work to complete the US-12 Sauk City bypass.

I think they are overjoyed that the I-39/90/94 project is going to be the next big one - that highway is significantly more important than US-12. Who isn't going to the Dells because it takes a few extra minutes to drive through Sauk City?

As much whining went on about the 6-laning of I-39/90 south of the Beltline, I would imagine at least a few folks are going to opt out of going to the Dells due to the construction. Having a 4-lane US-12 connection from Madison before they lean heavily into a mainline I-39/90/94 rebuild woud mitigate some of those construction woes.

I suspect, however, nobody's particularly fond of the idea of adding any additional traffic to the Beltline. That makes sense.

[US 12 fan]

It looks like they are going to resurface US 12 from Whitewater to where it meets up with Highway 20 and 67 this year. No roundabout plans for that intersection as of yet.

https://projects.511wi.gov/12whitewater/

[The Ghostbuster]

That probably means there will not be a roundabout added to the US 12/STH 20/STH 67 intersection. If that is the case, it is a shame, since I think that would be an ideal location for a roundabout to be constructed.

[mgk920]

That probably means there will not be a roundabout added to the US 12/STH 20/STH 67 intersection. If that is the case, it is a shame, since I think that would be an ideal location for a roundabout to be constructed.

Eventually it will be.

Mike

[dvferyance]

That probably means there will not be a roundabout added to the US 12/STH 20/STH 67 intersection. If that is the case, it is a shame, since I think that would be an ideal location for a roundabout to be constructed.

Eventually it will be.

Mike

How many more roundabouts do we need in this state? We have plenty as is.

[The Ghostbuster]

As many as WISDOT thinks are necessary, I guess. I don't expect the roundabout binge to stop anytime soon.

[SEWIGuy]

That probably means there will not be a roundabout added to the US 12/STH 20/STH 67 intersection. If that is the case, it is a shame, since I think that would be an ideal location for a roundabout to be constructed.

Eventually it will be.

Mike

How many more roundabouts do we need in this state? We have plenty as is.

Do you think there should be a quota or something?

Anyway I think that won't be the eventual solution. I think since most of the traffic goes through either direction on US-12, that they will keep that free flow. I think you will see WI-20/67 intersecting at one point, and the intersection between those two highways be a roundabout.

[JREwing78]

How many more roundabouts do we need in this state? We have plenty as is.

How many deaths from drivers running red lights are acceptable?

[mgk920]

For me, the #1 biggest frustration when I am out driving is sitting stopped at a red light when there is no conflicting traffic.  Roundabouts do not have that problem.

Mike

[thspfc]

How many deaths from drivers running red lights are acceptable?

Do you think there should be a quota or something?

How many deaths from drivers running red lights are acceptable?

As many as WISDOT thinks are necessary, I guess.

[hobsini2]

How many more roundabouts do we need in this state? We have plenty as is.

How many deaths from drivers running red lights are acceptable?

Deaths are going to happen regardless of an intersection being a roundabout or a light or a stop sign. All depends on the physical frame of the intersection if it can handle becoming a roundabout or if it has to be a light. In the case of US 12/Wis 20/Wis 67, since the freeway option for 12 is not happening any time soon, a roundabout would be the correct option.

[GeekJedi]

How many more roundabouts do we need in this state? We have plenty as is.

How many deaths from drivers running red lights are acceptable?

Deaths are going to happen regardless of an intersection being a roundabout or a light or a stop sign. All depends on the physical frame of the intersection if it can handle becoming a roundabout or if it has to be a light. In the case of US 12/Wis 20/Wis 67, since the freeway option for 12 is not happening any time soon, a roundabout would be the correct option.

Agreed. There are very few options that make sense there. A lot of the traffic ends up going from EB 12 to EB 20, therefore having to make a left, crossing WB 12 in the process. Add to that people think that turn signals are optional at the NB 67/WB 12 split, it makes it fairly dangerous to make that turn. As a bonus, it could be designed to eliminate the intersection of WI 20 and WI 67 that's right next to it.

A traffic light would almost be as useless as what's there now.

[GeekJedi]

It looks like they are going to resurface US 12 from Whitewater to where it meets up with Highway 20 and 67 this year. No roundabout plans for that intersection as of yet.

https://projects.511wi.gov/12whitewater/

That sucks. I travel a lot between my house in Mukwonago and an office that I have in Fort Atkinson. I'm going to have to do something like CTH-NN to STH-59 to USH-12. Not horrible, but not great either.

[hobsini2]

How many more roundabouts do we need in this state? We have plenty as is.

How many deaths from drivers running red lights are acceptable?

Deaths are going to happen regardless of an intersection being a roundabout or a light or a stop sign. All depends on the physical frame of the intersection if it can handle becoming a roundabout or if it has to be a light. In the case of US 12/Wis 20/Wis 67, since the freeway option for 12 is not happening any time soon, a roundabout would be the correct option.

Agreed. There are very few options that make sense there. A lot of the traffic ends up going from EB 12 to EB 20, therefore having to make a left, crossing WB 12 in the process. Add to that people think that turn signals are optional at the NB 67/WB 12 split, it makes it fairly dangerous to make that turn. As a bonus, it could be designed to eliminate the intersection of WI 20 and WI 67 that's right next to it.

A traffic light would almost be as useless as what's there now.

I did think about having the roundabout right in the middle of the curve as a 3 point roundabout with keeping the Wis 20/67 intersection as is. Traffic coming off the roundabout onto 20 East or 67 North would be going slow enough to warrant the stop signs only being needed for 67 Southbound and 20 Westbound. I'll play around with the design on the weekend.