US-75 Expansion/Construction between north of Dallas and the TX/OK state line

[Bobby5280]

Why to Tulsa? Political reasons?

It sounds more like Tulsa's rivalry with OKC. The OKC metro is a major hub of the Interstate highway system (and the previous US Highway network). Some people want Tulsa to seem "equal" to OKC on the map; routing a North-South Interstate highway through there would be a step in that direction.

Still, the fact remains US-69 is a more important commerce corridor in Oklahoma than US-75 going into Tulsa. Trucks coming up from the DFW area are headed to Big Cabin rather than Tulsa for multiple reasons. Going to Big Cabin shaves some miles off the route as opposed to going into Tulsa. It's easier for a trucker to drive through towns like Muskogee and Pryor than deal with much heavier traffic in Tulsa.

Some fictional ideas call for I-45 to be extended thru Tulsa up to Kansas City. I think that would be a wasteful duplication of efforts. I-35 and I-49 already go up to the KC metro. Then there is the issue of how the US-75, US-169 and US-69 corridors North of I-44 spread out the rural traffic load. There are bits of limited access highway on all three routes, along with mixes of 2-lane and 4-lane highway. They can't all be converted to Interstate quality.

If interests in Tulsa really want a full Interstate quality connection with Dallas via US-75 they need to start getting things fixed in their own back yard. US-75 going South out of Tulsa has all kinds of problems.

[TheBox]

Why to Tulsa? Political reasons?

It sounds more like Tulsa's rivalry with OKC. The OKC metro is a major hub of the Interstate highway system (and the previous US Highway network). Some people want Tulsa to seem "equal" to OKC on the map; routing a North-South Interstate highway through there would be a step in that direction.

Still, the fact remains US-69 is a more important commerce corridor in Oklahoma than US-75 going into Tulsa. Trucks coming up from the DFW area are headed to Big Cabin rather than Tulsa for multiple reasons. Going to Big Cabin shaves some miles off the route as opposed to going into Tulsa. It's easier for a trucker to drive through towns like Muskogee and Pryor than deal with much heavier traffic in Tulsa.

Some fictional ideas call for I-45 to be extended thru Tulsa up to Kansas City. I think that would be a wasteful duplication of efforts. I-35 and I-49 already go up to the KC metro. Then there is the issue of how the US-75, US-169 and US-69 corridors North of I-44 spread out the rural traffic load. There are bits of limited access highway on all three routes, along with mixes of 2-lane and 4-lane highway. They can't all be converted to Interstate quality.

If interests in Tulsa really want a full Interstate quality connection with Dallas via US-75 they need to start getting things fixed in their own back yard. US-75 going South out of Tulsa has all kinds of problems.

And above all else, they need a bypass around Okmulgee and to either realign the US-69 @ INT intersection or make direct 2-lane ramps connecting INT (Indian Nation Turnpike) with US-69 at McAlester.

And also update it at Henryetta too after those two obstacles are over with.

Anyways the Tulsa interstate can be a hypothetical I-445 or I-545, whiling the main I-45 extension can skip pass Tulsa and straight to Big Cabin. But that's enough fictional / hypothetical talk from me.

[splashflash]

to either realign the US-69 @ INT intersection or make direct 2-lane ramps connecting INT (Indian Nation Turnpike) with US-69 at McAlester. 

There are plans by OTA to do just that: 

An important part of the ACCESS Long Range Plan includes several projects that will improve existing facilities or provide new or improved access points to communities throughout the state.

Current planned interchange projects:
- Indian Nation Turnpike: Improvements to the US-69 Interchange near McAlester

https://www.accessoklahoma.com/interchange-improvements

[/quote]

[Bobby5280]

And above all else, they need a bypass around Okmulgee and to either realign the US-69 @ INT intersection or make direct 2-lane ramps connecting INT (Indian Nation Turnpike) with US-69 at McAlester.

I agree Okmulgee needs a freeway bypass. Getting one built could be as difficult as the effort to build one in Muskogee, if not more so. In the case of Muskogee, ODOT could simply build a new bypass farther West, well outside Muskogee city limits, if the city tried forcing ODOT's hand for a permanent Breezewood there.

OK-56 in Okmulgee looks like a failed effort to lay the groundwork for a bypass. Since US-75 cuts thru the middle of town any new bypass would have to shift at least 2-3 miles East or West of town. Creeks and wetlands border the West side of town, although that would be the shorter approach for a bypass.

I think US-75 in Henryetta is an easier problem to fix. Only a few commercial businesses are built anywhere close to the highway. It would be cheaper to upgrade in place. Just squeeze in frontage roads and slip ramps where needed. The frontage roads and main lanes can be separated by Jersey barriers in tight spots.

[Road Hog]

Just getting I-45 to Checotah is a win to me. We'll see how the rest plays out. US 69 is mostly upgradeable except for the portions that runs through towns. The politics will have to change, but I'm confident they will.

[mvak36]

Just getting I-45 to Checotah is a win to me. We'll see how the rest plays out. US 69 is mostly upgradeable except for the portions that runs through towns. The politics will have to change, but I'm confident they will.

Partly fictional, but if OK can ever get I-45 upgraded all the way to I-44, then I could see it getting to the Kansas City metro. Kansas is going to eventually upgrade most of US69/US400/US166 to freeway (at least they have plans to now). So OK could just multiplex I-45 along I-44 and the two states (and possibly MO) would have to figure out how to connect the two segments.

[rtXC1]

https://www.kxii.com/2024/06/20/3-million-going-toward-denison-highway-project/

[ZLoth]

Just getting I-45 to Checotah is a win to me. We'll see how the rest plays out. US 69 is mostly upgradeable except for the portions that runs through towns. The politics will have to change, but I'm confident they will.

I don't see US-69 getting the traffic that US-75 between North Dallas and Atoka, Oklahoma, and the section between the Oklahoma state line and Atoka is combined US-69/US-75. Even in Atoka, US-69 going north is a mix of two and four lane roadway while US-75 becomes a two-lane road.

[Bobby5280]

Just getting I-45 to Checotah is a win to me. We'll see how the rest plays out. US 69 is mostly upgradeable except for the portions that runs through towns. The politics will have to change, but I'm confident they will.

Atoka and Stringtown are apparently the main road blocks for converting all of US-69 to Interstate standards from the Red River to I-40. What ODOT can do is upgrade segments of US-69 elsewhere (since there is still so much work to do) and leave the Tushka-Stringtown segment to do last. Those towns are not growing (most of rural Oklahoma is shedding population). The political clout those towns apparently have is going to be eroded by aging residents dying off or moving elsewhere.

In the meantime the US-69 expressway in McAlester is slowly being converted into a freeway. The US-69 interchange with the Indian Nation Turnpike is going to be converted into a full cloverleaf. I could have sworn I saw plans somewhere regarding a freeway upgrade/bypass of Savanna to improve access to the Army Ammunition Plant there. If that work is done it could push an all-freeway US-69 from I-40 down to Kiowa. All the stuff on US-69 from the Red River up to Tushka would be easy to improve to Interstate standards.

I don't see US-69 getting the traffic that US-75 between North Dallas and Atoka, Oklahoma, and the section between the Oklahoma state line and Atoka is combined US-69/US-75. Even in Atoka, US-69 going north is a mix of two and four lane roadway while US-75 becomes a two-lane road.

There is a shit-ton of trucks taking US-69 from the Red River to Big Cabin. Truck traffic picks up quite a lot on I-44 going East of the Big Cabin exit (and truck traffic is already pretty heavy coming from OKC). An improved, all limited access US-69 route would provide an effective relief route for OKC and Tulsa.

[MikieTimT]

Just getting I-45 to Checotah is a win to me. We'll see how the rest plays out. US 69 is mostly upgradeable except for the portions that runs through towns. The politics will have to change, but I'm confident they will.

Atoka and Stringtown are apparently the main road blocks for converting all of US-69 to Interstate standards from the Red River to I-40. What ODOT can do is upgrade segments of US-69 elsewhere (since there is still so much work to do) and leave the Tushka-Stringtown segment to do last. Those towns are not growing (most of rural Oklahoma is shedding population). The political clout those towns apparently have is going to be eroded by aging residents dying off or moving elsewhere.

In the meantime the US-69 expressway in McAlester is slowly being converted into a freeway. The US-69 interchange with the Indian Nation Turnpike is going to be converted into a full cloverleaf. I could have sworn I saw plans somewhere regarding a freeway upgrade/bypass of Savanna to improve access to the Army Ammunition Plant there. If that work is done it could push an all-freeway US-69 from I-40 down to Kiowa. All the stuff on US-69 from the Red River up to Tushka would be easy to improve to Interstate standards.

I don't see US-69 getting the traffic that US-75 between North Dallas and Atoka, Oklahoma, and the section between the Oklahoma state line and Atoka is combined US-69/US-75. Even in Atoka, US-69 going north is a mix of two and four lane roadway while US-75 becomes a two-lane road.

There is a shit-ton of trucks taking US-69 from the Red River to Big Cabin. Truck traffic picks up quite a lot on I-44 going East of the Big Cabin exit (and truck traffic is already pretty heavy coming from OKC). An improved, all limited access US-69 route would provide an effective relief route for OKC and Tulsa.

I wish that ODOT had trucks broken out on percentages like ARDOT does on AADT, and it would be nice if they included counts on the turnpikes and truck percentages as well.  It'd also be nice if they posted information post-COVID.  This is all I could find on AADT for Oklahoma.  It looks like it just doesn't make any sense at all to 4 lane US-75 north of Atoka and south of I-40.  It's barely any extra mileage at all to just continue up US-69 and take the Indian Nation Turnpike up to Henryetta, which are 4 lanes already, but really could use some bypasses in some speed trap towns.

https://www.odot.org/maps/aadt/2018/StateMapAADT.pdf

If US-75 south of Tulsa needed to be an Interstate, it'd make more sense as a *40/*44 3DI to Henryetta and leave it there.  US-69/75 south of Atoka certainly makes sense to be part of an extended I-45.

[Plutonic Panda]

Tulsa needs a non tolled interstate in and out of the metro. It isn't fair that every freeway in and out of the city is tolled. I-45 and I-42 would help with that. I am of the opinion tolls on I-44 need to be removed.

[Bobby5280]

Oklahoma has one of the lowest gasoline tax rates in the country. If tolls were removed from I-44 and ODOT was given the responsibility of maintaining/improving those former turnpikes the gasoline tax rates would have to be hiked a good bit.

[Plutonic Panda]

Oklahoma has one of the lowest gasoline tax rates in the country. If tolls were removed from I-44 and ODOT was given the responsibility of maintaining/improving those former turnpikes the gasoline tax rates would have to be hiked a good bit.

As it needs to be. Somehow other states with good roads have found a way to not have tons of tolls.

[Great Lakes Roads]

Tulsa needs a non tolled interstate in and out of the metro. It isn't fair that every freeway in and out of the city is tolled. I-45 and I-42 would help with that. I am of the opinion tolls on I-44 need to be removed.

Sorry, can't do that...

[Plutonic Panda]

Tulsa needs a non tolled interstate in and out of the metro. It isn't fair that every freeway in and out of the city is tolled. I-45 and I-42 would help with that. I am of the opinion tolls on I-44 need to be removed.

Sorry, can't do that...

True. True.

[ZLoth]

My mother and I drove through Sherman over the weekend. It looks like the US-75 portion of the project is mostly complete with some shoulder work to be completed and the mounting of those big green signs. However, the frontage roads are still under reconstruction. I'm not surprised... they were used as "US-75" while the main road was reconstructed.

[sprjus4]

https://www.nbcdfw.com/investigations/dallas-lowers-speed-limit-central-expressway/3643036/?amp=1

The speed limit will be lowered on a roughly 3 mile segment of US-75 north of downtown Dallas, from 70 mph to 65 mph.

It's a pretty tight, albeit well designed urban freeway with a lot of traffic - I can understand this change as you transition from the more suburban 70 mph highway into the downtown area.

I've always found it surprising the 70 mph speed limit went so far into the city's core to begin with - interesting to see they're rolling it back just some years later.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't like that but it isn't like the speed limit is enforced anyways. I'll continue driving closer to 100 regardless.

[TheBox]

I don't like that but it isn't like the speed limit is enforced anyways. I'll continue driving closer to 100 regardless.

More power to you

[ZLoth]

I don't like that but it isn't like the speed limit is enforced anyways. I'll continue driving closer to 100 regardless.

Good luck doing that during rush hour.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't like that but it isn't like the speed limit is enforced anyways. I'll continue driving closer to 100 regardless.

Good luck doing that during rush hour.

lol. Even outside of rush-hour, I've been on this highway and it's been packed with traffic, barely moving at 30 MPH. I just laugh at these formalities. Lowering the speed limit by 5 miles an hour is really going to change peoples driving habits? And Have you seen how fast people drive on this road when there isn't traffic?

[ZLoth]

I was on I-635 express lanes between 35E and 75 doing 75 when a bike passed me as if I was using a walker. I guess this was a suicycle....

[bwana39]

I was on I-635 express lanes between 35E and 75 doing 75 when a bike passed me as if I was using a talker. I guess this was a suicycle....

On that underground part it is not uncommon for cars and bikes to be running well over 100mph...

[Echostatic]

I've seen bikers get up to 185mph through the trench on YouTube.

[Road Hog]

75 northbound was ass today north of McKinney. They're rebuilding the last remaining segment of original freeway between Rosamond Parkway and the Grayson County line, but they didn't get the crews off the site in time for weekend rush. Traffic was backed up almost into McKinney.