This is the only non-Utah source I could find: https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2891550
There's a city with a $400M arena waiting for them over here. Why go to the Mormons?
Quote from: elsmere241 on April 12, 2024, 09:49:57 PMThis is the only non-Utah source I could find: https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2891550
Here's a Phoenix source: https://arizonasports.com/story/3539412/arizona-coyotes-moving-utah-relocation-salt-lake-city-nhl/
KMVP-FM's John Gambadoro first broke the news last week. As usual, he was right. It's also not in any way surprising.
The Coyotes have gone from one incompetent owner to another since they arrived from Winnipeg in 1996. Lame-duck owner Alex Meruelo has been blowing smoke ever since they got kicked out of Glendale about building a new arena. Trouble is, he wants to be in or near the north Snobsdale/Paradise Valley area, where 90% of the Phoenix metro's wealth is. Snobsdale made it clear 25 years ago that "that element" (less wealthy, blue collar hockey fans) will never be welcome in their city. They said so again with this new proposal. The land is inside the Phoenix city limits, but it butts up with Snobsdale. Not allowed.
Glendale was never the right home, but the owner at the time, Steve Ellman, owned land there, brought the Cardinals into the project, and it's been successful for everything other than hockey. Glendale and the west valley are also too poor and either too Hispanic (west Phoenix) or too old (Sun Cities) to support hockey.
Mesa is where the hockey fans are, but not only are most of my fellow Mesa residents not wealthy enough for the most part, but no public money would be available. We believe that billionaires should build their own facilities. Tempe said the same thing in a public vote last year.
So the Coyotes are headed for Utah.
Now, if Alex Meruelo thinks he'll get an expansion franchise here, he's delusional. His credibility is now completely shot. He has to win an auction for the land on June 27, and I can see a lot of rich folks getting together to make sure that doesn't happen. That is, even if he just doesn't quietly drop the idea, take his $1.2B from the Utah Jazz owners, and high-tail it out of town. Preferably tomorrow.
Maybe someone will attempt to secure an expansion franchise and a decent site for an arena, but I seriously doubt it'll be Meruelo.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 13, 2024, 12:16:20 AMThere's a city with a $400M arena waiting for them over here. Why go to the Mormons?
Quebec City metro population: Under a million.
SLC/Ogden/Provo metro population: Close to 3 million.
Do the math.
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on April 13, 2024, 01:13:56 AMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 13, 2024, 12:16:20 AMThere's a city with a $400M arena waiting for them over here. Why go to the Mormons?
Quebec City metro population: Under a million.
SLC/Ogden/Provo metro population: Close to 3 million.
Do the math.
Considering Atlanta has 6 million and couldn't keep a team, I don't think it matters.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 13, 2024, 01:31:52 AMQuote from: KeithE4Phx on April 13, 2024, 01:13:56 AMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 13, 2024, 12:16:20 AMThere's a city with a $400M arena waiting for them over here. Why go to the Mormons?
Quebec City metro population: Under a million.
SLC/Ogden/Provo metro population: Close to 3 million.
Do the math.
Considering Atlanta has 6 million and couldn't keep a team, I don't think it matters.
They couldn't keep two teams. Atlanta is just not a hockey market. Phoenix can be, if done right. Lots of residents and winter visitors who came here from not only the US midwest, but western Canada. Hockey country. In 28 years of inept owners, they never did it right.
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on April 13, 2024, 01:39:55 AMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 13, 2024, 01:31:52 AMQuote from: KeithE4Phx on April 13, 2024, 01:13:56 AMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 13, 2024, 12:16:20 AMThere's a city with a $400M arena waiting for them over here. Why go to the Mormons?
Quebec City metro population: Under a million.
SLC/Ogden/Provo metro population: Close to 3 million.
Do the math.
Considering Atlanta has 6 million and couldn't keep a team, I don't think it matters.
They couldn't keep two teams. Atlanta is just not a hockey market. Phoenix can be, if done right. Lots of residents and winter visitors who came here from not only the US midwest, but western Canada. Hockey country. In 28 years of inept owners, they never did it right.
You know what the crazy part is? The Utah (name to be determined later) will be the new next-door neighbors to the team formerly known as the Quebec Nordiques. Plus, the new Winnipeg Jets started out as the Atlanta Thrashers, so there you go.
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on April 13, 2024, 01:39:55 AMThey couldn't keep two teams. Atlanta is just not a hockey market. Phoenix can be, if done right. Lots of residents and winter visitors who came here from not only the US midwest, but western Canada. Hockey country. In 28 years of inept owners, they never did it right.
The snowbirds won't go to Salt Lake City, that's for sure.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 13, 2024, 01:50:07 AMQuote from: KeithE4Phx on April 13, 2024, 01:39:55 AMThey couldn't keep two teams. Atlanta is just not a hockey market. Phoenix can be, if done right. Lots of residents and winter visitors who came here from not only the US midwest, but western Canada. Hockey country. In 28 years of inept owners, they never did it right.
The snowbirds won't go to Salt Lake City, that's for sure.
Salt Lake City Snowbirds sounds like a good team name.
Especially since the Jazz is already taken.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 13, 2024, 06:29:57 AMSalt Lake City Snowbirds sounds like a good team name.
I won't accept any name for that team other than this and the Latter-Day Saints.
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on April 13, 2024, 01:39:55 AMThey couldn't keep two teams. Atlanta is just not a hockey market. Phoenix can be, if done right. Lots of residents and winter visitors who came here from not only the US midwest, but western Canada. Hockey country. In 28 years of inept owners, they never did it right.
From what I've observed over the past decade, it almost seems as if Phoenix officials themselves were trying to sabotage the team.
Quote from: Henry on April 13, 2024, 01:45:45 AMQuote from: KeithE4Phx on April 13, 2024, 01:39:55 AMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 13, 2024, 01:31:52 AMQuote from: KeithE4Phx on April 13, 2024, 01:13:56 AMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 13, 2024, 12:16:20 AMThere's a city with a $400M arena waiting for them over here. Why go to the Mormons?
Quebec City metro population: Under a million.
SLC/Ogden/Provo metro population: Close to 3 million.
Do the math.
Considering Atlanta has 6 million and couldn't keep a team, I don't think it matters.
They couldn't keep two teams. Atlanta is just not a hockey market. Phoenix can be, if done right. Lots of residents and winter visitors who came here from not only the US midwest, but western Canada. Hockey country. In 28 years of inept owners, they never did it right.
You know what the crazy part is? The Utah (name to be determined later) will be the new next-door neighbors to the team formerly known as the Quebec Nordiques. Plus, the new Winnipeg Jets started out as the Atlanta Thrashers, so there you go.
Isn't there a lot of concern over the long term viability of the Jets in Winnipeg?
Utah's total state population is barely 3 million. I think they just passed Arkansas, Kansas and Iowa and got passed themselves by Nevada. But they already have the Jazz so they've been a major league state for years.
Salt Lake City was the one who committed to it, so that's why they're getting the Coyotes. Kansas City, Houston, Atlanta, wherever didn't show the same level of interest/commitment. Just being larger doesn't matter if you're not committed to it.
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on April 13, 2024, 01:09:10 AMQuote from: elsmere241 on April 12, 2024, 09:49:57 PMThis is the only non-Utah source I could find: https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2891550
Here's a Phoenix source: https://arizonasports.com/story/3539412/arizona-coyotes-moving-utah-relocation-salt-lake-city-nhl/
KMVP-FM's John Gambadoro first broke the news last week. As usual, he was right. It's also not in any way surprising.
The Coyotes have gone from one incompetent owner to another since they arrived from Winnipeg in 1996. Lame-duck owner Alex Meruelo has been blowing smoke ever since they got kicked out of Glendale about building a new arena. Trouble is, he wants to be in or near the north Snobsdale/Paradise Valley area, where 90% of the Phoenix metro's wealth is. Snobsdale made it clear 25 years ago that "that element" (less wealthy, blue collar hockey fans) will never be welcome in their city. They said so again with this new proposal. The land is inside the Phoenix city limits, but it butts up with Snobsdale. Not allowed.
Glendale was never the right home, but the owner at the time, Steve Ellman, owned land there, brought the Cardinals into the project, and it's been successful for everything other than hockey. Glendale and the west valley are also too poor and either too Hispanic (west Phoenix) or too old (Sun Cities) to support hockey.
Mesa is where the hockey fans are, but not only are most of my fellow Mesa residents not wealthy enough for the most part, but no public money would be available. We believe that billionaires should build their own facilities. Tempe said the same thing in a public vote last year.
So the Coyotes are headed for Utah.
Now, if Alex Meruelo thinks he'll get an expansion franchise here, he's delusional. His credibility is now completely shot. He has to win an auction for the land on June 27, and I can see a lot of rich folks getting together to make sure that doesn't happen. That is, even if he just doesn't quietly drop the idea, take his $1.2B from the Utah Jazz owners, and high-tail it out of town. Preferably tomorrow.
Maybe someone will attempt to secure an expansion franchise and a decent site for an arena, but I seriously doubt it'll be Meruelo.
It says quite a bit about the NHL and how they mismanaged the Phoenix market that the West Valley, which was able to support (in its own way) the Arizona Cardinals, a downtown district around Desert Diamond Arena, and the new Desert Diamond Casino, was more unwilling than unable to support the Arizona Coyotes. It says even more about the NHL that, despite their current financial success, they're willing to let a team move to a metro area where there is very little guarantee that the taxpayers will finance a replacement Delta Center just so that it can support hockey as well as basketball, especially when there is already a place that can seat 10000 for hockey (Maverik Center, in West Valley City).
Utah Skinwalkers for a name, please.
The Stingers playing in the Beehive?
:nod:
Mike
https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordfinder/classic/ends/all/-1/zz/1
Utah Youths. (With apologies to Mr. Gambini.)
Quote from: Road Hog on April 13, 2024, 07:35:11 PMhttps://www.merriam-webster.com/wordfinder/classic/ends/all/-1/zz/1
Utah Rizz
Here's a new twist in the planned move: The Coyotes' property (name, logo, colors, etc.) will remain in Arizona, as the Utah team will have a new identity in place. In addition, it will be reused for an expansion team in the future, given how much the state has embraced the sport ever since the old Jets arrived from Winnipeg back in 1996. I think a 34th franchise will be established at the same time (mainly because the league won't want an odd number of teams again), but we'll see if it comes to pass in five years.
Re: population of Utah and other things:
Manitoba has a population of 1.4 million.
Gonna be disappointed if it's not the Utah Saints.
Quote from: Road Hog on April 13, 2024, 07:35:11 PMhttps://www.merriam-webster.com/wordfinder/classic/ends/all/-1/zz/1
How bout the Utah Razzmatazz?
Quote from: formulanone on April 15, 2024, 04:37:23 PMGonna be disappointed if it's not the Utah Saints.
I think you'll get your wish eventually, but in the form of an NFL team instead. The Louisiana Superdome's years are numbered and I just don't see the Saints wanting to, or even being able to, build a new stadium in New Orleans. If hockey succeeds in Salt Lake, well, we saw what happened in Vegas. The Golden Knights did well, the Raiders and A's followed them.
Quote from: SectorZ on April 13, 2024, 05:58:46 PMUtah Skinwalkers for a name, please.
Quote from: mgk920 on April 13, 2024, 07:26:51 PMThe Stingers playing in the Beehive?
:nod:
Mike
I love both of these.
Hopefully it's not something stupid like Kraken.
Utah Saints:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Saints
The sale to Utah Jazz owner Ryan Smith and relocation to SLC is expected to be approved by the NHL Board of Governors tomorrow. At least the Coyotes went out with a win, beating Edmonton 5-2.
RIP, Arizona Coyotes (1996-2024). A sad ending to a hard-luck franchise, with one bad owner after another. :no:
https://arizonasports.com/story/3546179/arizona-coyotes-sale-to-ryan-smith-expected-to-be-approved-by-board-of-governors-on-thursday/
The purchase of the Phoenix hockey franchise by SLC interests has been approved. The Arizona Coyotes no longer exists (hopefully temporarily), and its hockey operations are now owned by the Utah Jazz ownership group. The name of the new team has not been determined.
Alex Meruelo, you're on the clock. You have five years to build a hockey arena somewhere in metro Phoenix.
https://arizonasports.com/story/3546173/its-official-coyotes-will-move-from-arizona-to-utah-with-sale-to-jazz-owner/
Even when the Coyotes were in a real arena half the spectators attending were usually fans of visiting teams. I'm having a hard time deciding if Phoenix was just a bad NHL market it or was just gross mismanagement of the Coyotes franchise that led to the team never getting a foothold.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2024, 04:39:57 PMEven when the Coyotes were in a real arena half the spectators attending were usually fans of visiting teams. I'm having a hard time deciding if Phoenix was just a bad NHL market it or was just gross mismanagement of the Coyotes franchise that led to the team never getting a foothold.
Moreover, is SLC really a better market?
Quote from: Rothman on April 18, 2024, 10:38:35 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2024, 04:39:57 PMEven when the Coyotes were in a real arena half the spectators attending were usually fans of visiting teams. I'm having a hard time deciding if Phoenix was just a bad NHL market it or was just gross mismanagement of the Coyotes franchise that led to the team never getting a foothold.
Moreover, is SLC really a better market?
No, there are way more ideal places for the former Arizona franchise to have landed. The Golden Knights are more than enough for the entire desert southwest at this point.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2024, 10:55:15 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 18, 2024, 10:38:35 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2024, 04:39:57 PMEven when the Coyotes were in a real arena half the spectators attending were usually fans of visiting teams. I'm having a hard time deciding if Phoenix was just a bad NHL market it or was just gross mismanagement of the Coyotes franchise that led to the team never getting a foothold.
Moreover, is SLC really a better market?
No, there are way more ideal places for the former Arizona franchise to have landed. The Golden Knights are more than enough for the entire desert southwest at this point.
That's my suspicion as well. Baseball, basketball, football, heck, soccer...volleyball...I'm having trouble seeing Utah as some sort of burgeoning center for hockey.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2024, 04:39:57 PMEven when the Coyotes were in a real arena half the spectators attending were usually fans of visiting teams. I'm having a hard time deciding if Phoenix was just a bad NHL market it or was just gross mismanagement of the Coyotes franchise that led to the team never getting a foothold.
The past few years suggested it was all of these.
Quote from: Rothman on April 16, 2024, 07:20:28 PMUtah Saints:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Saints
No thanks on this choice - I'm not a fan of the same team names being used in multiple sports to begin with, and the Jazz irony makes it even more distasteful.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2024, 10:55:15 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 18, 2024, 10:38:35 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2024, 04:39:57 PMEven when the Coyotes were in a real arena half the spectators attending were usually fans of visiting teams. I'm having a hard time deciding if Phoenix was just a bad NHL market it or was just gross mismanagement of the Coyotes franchise that led to the team never getting a foothold.
Moreover, is SLC really a better market?
No, there are way more ideal places for the former Arizona franchise to have landed. The Golden Knights are more than enough for the entire desert southwest at this point.
Do people from Utah generally root for teams from Las Vegas?
That being said, I don't know where would be a better place. There doesn't seem to be an obvious location in need of a hockey team.
Quebec City. Even though the total population is smaller, Canadian cities generally have a greater percentage of the population interested in hockey than American cities.
EDIT: I'm counting, as an estimate, 1.8 million people in Quebec who are closer to Quebec City than Montreal, and this excludes Trois-Rivières and Sherbrooke. Add a small amount more if New Brunswick decides to root for this team.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 19, 2024, 09:06:52 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2024, 10:55:15 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 18, 2024, 10:38:35 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2024, 04:39:57 PMEven when the Coyotes were in a real arena half the spectators attending were usually fans of visiting teams. I'm having a hard time deciding if Phoenix was just a bad NHL market it or was just gross mismanagement of the Coyotes franchise that led to the team never getting a foothold.
Moreover, is SLC really a better market?
No, there are way more ideal places for the former Arizona franchise to have landed. The Golden Knights are more than enough for the entire desert southwest at this point.
Do people from Utah generally root for teams from Las Vegas?
That being said, I don't know where would be a better place. There doesn't seem to be an obvious location in need of a hockey team.
Milwaukee had been lobbying for a team for a good time until Fiserv Forum was built without consideration of hockey.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 19, 2024, 09:06:52 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2024, 10:55:15 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 18, 2024, 10:38:35 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2024, 04:39:57 PMEven when the Coyotes were in a real arena half the spectators attending were usually fans of visiting teams. I'm having a hard time deciding if Phoenix was just a bad NHL market it or was just gross mismanagement of the Coyotes franchise that led to the team never getting a foothold.
Moreover, is SLC really a better market?
No, there are way more ideal places for the former Arizona franchise to have landed. The Golden Knights are more than enough for the entire desert southwest at this point.
Do people from Utah generally root for teams from Las Vegas?
That being said, I don't know where would be a better place. There doesn't seem to be an obvious location in need of a hockey team.
Hartford. Bring back the Whalers!
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 19, 2024, 09:06:52 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2024, 10:55:15 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 18, 2024, 10:38:35 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2024, 04:39:57 PMEven when the Coyotes were in a real arena half the spectators attending were usually fans of visiting teams. I'm having a hard time deciding if Phoenix was just a bad NHL market it or was just gross mismanagement of the Coyotes franchise that led to the team never getting a foothold.
Moreover, is SLC really a better market?
No, there are way more ideal places for the former Arizona franchise to have landed. The Golden Knights are more than enough for the entire desert southwest at this point.
Do people from Utah generally root for teams from Las Vegas?
That being said, I don't know where would be a better place. There doesn't seem to be an obvious location in need of a hockey team.
Before the Cardinals were a thing the big following for the NFL in Phoenix was the Broncos. I'm not sure how that equates for SLC but the distance is similar.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 19, 2024, 09:06:52 AMThat being said, I don't know where would be a better place. There doesn't seem to be an obvious location in need of a hockey team.
Quebec City
Hamilton
Kansas City
Houston
Milwaukee
Portland (OR)
Austin
Atlanta
I know some of these have had teams and failed before, but just some options outside of SLC.
Atlanta has shown itself to be a nowhere destination for hockey too many times already.
The Blackhawks claim territorial rights on the Milwaukee market. :-/
Mike
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 19, 2024, 10:27:04 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on April 19, 2024, 09:06:52 AMThat being said, I don't know where would be a better place. There doesn't seem to be an obvious location in need of a hockey team.
Quebec City
Hamilton
Kansas City
Houston
Milwaukee
Portland (OR)
Austin
Atlanta
I know some of these have had teams and failed before, but just some options outside of SLC.
Yeah, but I don't know if any of them are obviously better.
For instance, I am from Milwaukee and know the city very well, and I think an NHL team there would be a failure. There just isn't enough interest in the sport - the AHL Admirals get about 6,000 per game. And the corporate community is already supporting the Bucks, and to a lesser degree Marquette basketball. I haven't heard a serious effort to get a team there since they were up for an expansion franchise in the 90s.
People who casually throw around lists of cities are making a couple of assumptions that may or may not be valid, including (but not limited to) there being a suitable arena (Salt Lake City is borderline on that one; Atlanta, for one, is considered not to have one) and an interested ownership group (by most accounts, nobody in Portland has expressed interest), as well as not infringing on another team's territory (huge problem in Hamilton as to the Leafs and the Sabres, also a problem in Milwaukee). The market also has to be big enough; the NHL has expressed skepticism about returning to Quebec City for that reason because it would by far be the smallest NHL market. In this particular case, keeping the franchise in the Western Conference was desirable for balance reasons; while there is recent precedent for having a team in a place where it did not belong (Winnipeg in the Southeast Division for two years), everyone recognized that it was problematic. (I'd argue that the current Atlantic Division is far from ideal with the two Florida teams grouped with Boston, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Buffalo, and Detroit.)
Regarding Atlanta, there's been a lot of talk about the idea of a suburban arena out near where the baseball team moved. Evidently they have a bunch of market studies that supposedly show an active hockey fanbase in the Greater Atlanta area but that also show that going downtown for a game is a big turnoff to a lot of people because of the traffic and travel time involved (sounds similar to the problem the Coyotes had in Glendale). Who knows whether any of that is really valid. Supposedly the Houston Rockets' owner is interested in landing a team for his city. Why the NHL would want to prioritize a third crack at Atlanta over a new market in Houston that by all accounts provided outstanding support for its WHA team is a mystery to me.
I saw a picture of Salt Lake City's arena in hockey configuration. It looks somewhat worse than the Barclays Center in Brooklyn. Sightlines and obstructed-view seating there were big problems for the Islanders. I don't remember seeing pictures of the Phoenix Suns' arena when the Coyotes played there, but I believe they had very similar issues. Hopefully this doesn't turn out to be a case of history repeating itself. By all accounts, Salt Lake City is the favorite to host the 2034 Olympics, so that ought to help with getting a new arena built.
Let me rephrase then, is there any reason to believe the Atlanta fanbase will support an NHL team a third time around?
I think some of the successful "non-traditional" NHL markets have worked because they don't have a competing NBA team.
Nashville, Raleigh, Las Vegas, San Jose, Tampa, etc. all don't have to compete with a another franchise sucking up ticket and sponsorship dollars playing at the same time.
That being said, I wonder if Kansas City, which has the Sprint Center ready and waiting, would sustainably support a team.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 19, 2024, 10:38:29 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on April 19, 2024, 10:27:04 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on April 19, 2024, 09:06:52 AMThat being said, I don't know where would be a better place. There doesn't seem to be an obvious location in need of a hockey team.
Quebec City
Hamilton
Kansas City
Houston
Milwaukee
Portland (OR)
Austin
Atlanta
I know some of these have had teams and failed before, but just some options outside of SLC.
Yeah, but I don't know if any of them are obviously better.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 19, 2024, 10:50:10 AMPeople who casually throw around lists of cities are making a couple of assumptions that may or may not be valid, including (but not limited to) there being a suitable arena (Salt Lake City is borderline on that one; Atlanta, for one, is considered not to have one) and an interested ownership group (by most accounts, nobody in Portland has expressed interest), as well as not infringing on another team's territory (huge problem in Hamilton as to the Leafs and the Sabres, also a problem in Milwaukee). The market also has to be big enough; the NHL has expressed skepticism about returning to Quebec City for that reason because it would by far be the smallest NHL market. In this particular case, keeping the franchise in the Western Conference was desirable for balance reasons; while there is recent precedent for having a team in a place where it did not belong (Winnipeg in the Southeast Division for two years), everyone recognized that it was problematic. (I'd argue that the current Atlantic Division is far from ideal with the two Florida teams grouped with Boston, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Buffalo, and Detroit.)
Regarding Atlanta, there's been a lot of talk about the idea of a suburban arena out near where the baseball team moved. Evidently they have a bunch of market studies that supposedly show an active hockey fanbase in the Greater Atlanta area but that also show that going downtown for a game is a big turnoff to a lot of people because of the traffic and travel time involved (sounds similar to the problem the Coyotes had in Glendale). Who knows whether any of that is really valid. Supposedly the Houston Rockets' owner is interested in landing a team for his city. Why the NHL would want to prioritize a third crack at Atlanta over a new market in Houston that by all accounts provided outstanding support for its WHA team is a mystery to me.
I saw a picture of Salt Lake City's arena in hockey configuration. It looks somewhat worse than the Barclays Center in Brooklyn. Sightlines and obstructed-view seating there were big problems for the Islanders. I don't remember seeing pictures of the Phoenix Suns' arena when the Coyotes played there, but I believe they had very similar issues. Hopefully this doesn't turn out to be a case of history repeating itself. By all accounts, Salt Lake City is the favorite to host the 2034 Olympics, so that ought to help with getting a new arena built.
Not saying they're all active, viable candidates with perfect arenas and potential owenership groups., but IMO, they're all places that a hockey team could work in the near/medium term wrt interest, population, geography, etc.
Here's the Delta Center in Salt Lake City during an LA Kings preseason game last year. From what I understand, the NHL team will likely close off the seats at either end of the upper level because you can't see the goal at your end of the ice from up there.
(https://www.sltrib.com/resizer/VcPvP3vutfpVYWGj1ucI6_Pkwfw=/1024x650/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/sltrib/XPSQBGP34VGHLAXCXAVTG6LN6M.JPG)
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 19, 2024, 11:09:52 AMHere's the Delta Center in Salt Lake City during an LA Kings preseason game last year. From what I understand, the NHL team will likely close off the seats at either end of the upper level because you can't see the goal at your end of the ice from up there.
This is similar to the situation at the Footprint Center in Phoenix (America West Arena at the time) that prevented the Coyotes from remaining there in 1998.
Just as we expected: Ryan and Ashley Smith (the new team owners) have already determined that the new name will include Utah to match their other team, the Jazz. More details to come later on, possibly this summer...
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on April 19, 2024, 01:26:36 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on April 19, 2024, 11:09:52 AMHere's the Delta Center in Salt Lake City during an LA Kings preseason game last year. From what I understand, the NHL team will likely close off the seats at either end of the upper level because you can't see the goal at your end of the ice from up there.
This is similar to the situation at the Footprint Center in Phoenix (America West Arena at the time) that prevented the Coyotes from remaining there in 1998.
American West was by far the better venue to attend compared to Glendale Arena. The seating at America West raised more abruptly and had way better views. America West was also way more loud and lively.
Well at least it snows in Utah. That's my only criteria for who gets hockey teams. :-P
It snows in Arizona also. I was stuck up on the Mogollon Rim in Show Low for three days one time after being snow bound in a hotel there. I've even seen it snow on the mountains in Phoenix a couple times.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 23, 2024, 12:40:16 PMWell at least it snows in Utah. That's my only criteria for who gets hockey teams. :-P
It snowed in Miami in 1977, so I guess the Panthers are safe.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2024, 12:47:31 PMIt snows in Arizona also. I was stuck up on the Mogollon Rim in Show Low for three days one time after being snow bound in a hotel there. I've even seen it snow on the mountains in Phoenix a couple times.
The last time I saw snow in Phoenix (specifically, Ahwatukee) was January 2007. The last time I saw it in Mesa was February 2013. When I worked in north Scottsdale (1997-2002), there were 2 or 3 times I got to work and there was about 1/2 inch of snow on the ground each time. So it does happen on rare occasions.
Saw this pic on Twitter and really liked it.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLz0hKYXYAARfw9?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 23, 2024, 03:23:14 PMSaw this pic on Twitter and really liked it.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLz0hKYXYAARfw9?format=jpg&name=medium)
Is that an official proposal? Last I heard, they will be called just "Utah" and will determine their final nickname/logo/trademarks after the 2024-25 season.
That's a pretty small metro area to have both an NBA and NHL team.
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on April 23, 2024, 11:21:08 PMIs that an official proposal? Last I heard, they will be called just "Utah" and will determine their final nickname/logo/trademarks after the 2024-25 season.
Nope. Just a fan mockup.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 24, 2024, 07:11:17 AMThat's a pretty small metro area to have both an NBA and NHL team.
Yep. The next smallest metropolitan area that has both a NBA and NHL team is Denver. Salt Lake is the 46th largest metro area...Denver is 19th.
They are already the second smallest metro area in the U.S. to have either an NBA and NHL team - Buffalo is the only one smaller. Winnipeg is as well if you include Canada.
Heh, I just noticed how close Fresno is in those rankings to Salt Lake City. Nobody would ever consider moving a major sports franchise here.
By drawing polygons, I'm getting about 2.6 million for Salt Lake City and 2.1 million for Fresno (includes Merced but not Modesto or Bakersfield), although the numbers are from 2015.
https://sedac.ciesin.columbia.edu/mapping/popest/gpw-v4/
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 24, 2024, 08:59:36 AMQuote from: Flint1979 on April 24, 2024, 07:11:17 AMThat's a pretty small metro area to have both an NBA and NHL team.
Yep. The next smallest metropolitan area that has both a NBA and NHL team is Denver. Salt Lake is the 46th largest metro area...Denver is 19th.
They are already the second smallest metro area in the U.S. to have either an NBA and NHL team - Buffalo is the only one smaller. Winnipeg is as well if you include Canada.
Yep. I was wondering what the smallest market to have both the NBA and NHL was and my first thought was Denver actually.
And your second thought here I also figured they were one of the smaller NBA markets just off the top of my head without looking anything up.
Quote from: hotdogPi on April 24, 2024, 09:25:51 AMBy drawing polygons, I'm getting about 2.6 million for Salt Lake City and 2.1 million for Fresno (includes Merced but not Modesto or Bakersfield), although the numbers are from 2015.
https://sedac.ciesin.columbia.edu/mapping/popest/gpw-v4/
I went even further into it and Utah as a state only has 3.3 million people which is roughly the population of the Denver Metro area (currently the smallest market to have both the NBA and NHL). A state is of course going to cover a much larger land area that a metro area.
Yes, it normally snows in northern Arizona, the I-40 corridor (Flagstaff area), but not in the Sonoran Desert (Phoenix area). PHX is normally one of the, if not the hottest metros in the contiguous 48.
Mike
Yes, it is indeed hot in Phoenix.
Yes, yes, it snows "everywhere" at some point. You know what I meant.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 25, 2024, 10:36:46 AMYes, yes, it snows "everywhere" at some point. You know what I meant.
Not really. (https://www.thetravel.com/which-countries-never-get-any-snow/#:~:text=Puerto%20Rico%3A%20The%20entire%20country,had%20snowfall%20recorded%20in%20history.)
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 25, 2024, 10:44:34 AMQuote from: triplemultiplex on April 25, 2024, 10:36:46 AMYes, yes, it snows "everywhere" at some point. You know what I meant.
Not really. (https://www.thetravel.com/which-countries-never-get-any-snow/#:~:text=Puerto%20Rico%3A%20The%20entire%20country,had%20snowfall%20recorded%20in%20history.)
Oh yeah?!?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_Earth
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 25, 2024, 11:16:30 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on April 25, 2024, 10:44:34 AMQuote from: triplemultiplex on April 25, 2024, 10:36:46 AMYes, yes, it snows "everywhere" at some point. You know what I meant.
Not really. (https://www.thetravel.com/which-countries-never-get-any-snow/#:~:text=Puerto%20Rico%3A%20The%20entire%20country,had%20snowfall%20recorded%20in%20history.)
Oh yeah?!?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_Earth
Figured something like that was coming. Recorded history works for me as opposed to a hypothesis.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 25, 2024, 11:28:10 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on April 25, 2024, 11:16:30 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on April 25, 2024, 10:44:34 AMQuote from: triplemultiplex on April 25, 2024, 10:36:46 AMYes, yes, it snows "everywhere" at some point. You know what I meant.
Not really. (https://www.thetravel.com/which-countries-never-get-any-snow/#:~:text=Puerto%20Rico%3A%20The%20entire%20country,had%20snowfall%20recorded%20in%20history.)
Oh yeah?!?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_Earth
Figured something like that was coming. Recorded history works for me as opposed to a hypothesis.
It was just a joke you know.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 25, 2024, 12:09:24 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on April 25, 2024, 11:28:10 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on April 25, 2024, 11:16:30 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on April 25, 2024, 10:44:34 AMQuote from: triplemultiplex on April 25, 2024, 10:36:46 AMYes, yes, it snows "everywhere" at some point. You know what I meant.
Not really. (https://www.thetravel.com/which-countries-never-get-any-snow/#:~:text=Puerto%20Rico%3A%20The%20entire%20country,had%20snowfall%20recorded%20in%20history.)
Oh yeah?!?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_Earth
Figured something like that was coming. Recorded history works for me as opposed to a hypothesis.
It was just a joke you know.
For sure. I take almost nothing seriously on this site. :)