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Author Topic: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)  (Read 2373 times)

epzik8

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2022, 07:04:04 AM »

In Aberdeen, Maryland, eastbound MD 22 is accessible from eastbound US 40 either through an explicity-marked ramp to the right or through a left turn and then a right turn onto the Rogers Street ramp, which is the only way to get there from US 40 westbound.
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roadman65

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2022, 07:23:00 AM »

I-78 in New York always had two exits for Hudson Street exiting the Holland Tunnel.
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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2022, 09:12:58 AM »

-In DC, I-695 (future realigned I-395) has an initial ramp for I-395 (future I-195) north, which simply goes around an onramp from Virginia Ave and rejoins I-695 for a short weave, then actually departs for I-395 north.  That bypass ramp is helpful for avoiding a quick weave closer to the actual ramp, but you're not of luck if you miss it.

-In MD, There are 2 ramps to I-695 westbound from I-97.  The first is the primary high-volume thru movement, while the second allows local access to I-695 exit 5 (the interchange immediately west of I-97, which the thru ramp misses due to merging into I-695 from the left just beyond the exit).  This 2nd ramp is signed as if it leads straight to MD 648, but in fact it enters I-695 first.

-Also in MD, I-695 at MD 372Exit 12B provides access to MD 372 eastbound, but if you follow Exit 12C (initially signed for MD 372 westbound),you'll ultimately have access to either direction.  The only reason I thought to include this example is that once off the I-695 mainline, the signage at the end of the 12C ramp and then at Wilkens Ave fully acknowledges the redundancy.

•  Near me in Maryland is the interchange where northbound US 29 meets I-70.  After passing the first exit which you can use to take I-70 to Baltimore :poke:, there is a right loop exit to westbound I-70 followed immediately by a left turn to another ramp to I-70 westbound.

     Even though the latter exit has a traffic light, I usually personally prefer it as it's easier to pick up merging speed than it is on a loop ramp.

This one I've always found interesting for several reasons.  I presume the original intent was to allow US 29 traffic to access I-70 westbound from either lane (instead of having to bunch up in the right lane approaching the cloverleaf) and thus allow traffic to spread out a bit more, especially since I-70 westbound at this interchange tends to be a massive rush-hour chokepoint.  But I've gotten the sense MDOT SHA has some buyer's remorse - over the years (presumably due to crashes) it changed from a stop sign crossing US 29 southbound, to a permissible traffic signal with the MD-style flashing red, to a fully-protected steady red.  Additionally, all signage for the left-turn from US 29 northbound (except for this one, after you've already committed to the turn) was removed at some point.

I usually prefer the original cloverleaf just because I like the feeling of continuing to move versus waiting at a red light, but I've noticed that a decent number of motorists will change their mind between ramps at the last second depending on the signal phase at the left turn.
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jp the roadgeek

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2022, 09:46:57 AM »

A couple I can think of near me:

CT 15 has a direct ramp to I-91 South, then has a second connection to I-91 South by staying on the Airport Rd exit ramp.

In the other two scenarios, the marked ramp is the 2nd chance

I-84 west to I-384 East.  Exit 59 is the marked movement, but it can also be accessed from the Exit 62-60 C/D road

The whole Exit 21-22 (soon to be 31-32) complex of CT 9 and US 5/CT 15 is full of second chances.  Northbound 21 (31) is marked for 5/15 North, but one can go south by staying on 372 and taking a couple of lefts.  Exit 22 is for 5/15 South, but one can still go north by turning left onto Worthington Ridge instead of right.  Southbound has 21 (31) marked for 5/15 in both directions, but 22 (32) is actually easier for southbound traffic because one can continues straight off the ramp and easily merge into 5/15 South.  The marked movement requires a signalized left turn across northbound traffic.
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GaryA

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2022, 11:48:35 AM »

The La Palma Avenue exits on I-5 north in Anaheim.  The first exit is an exit that is signed for La Palma Avenue that requires a right turn onto Brookhurst Street to then either turn left onto La Palma Avenue west (crossing several lanes to do so) or turn right onto La Palma Avenue east (staying in the right hand lane after the turn onto Brookhurst to do so).

The second exit is a right hand exit that is signed for and puts you directly onto to La Palma Avenue east.

Similarly, on CA-118 westbound at Madera Rd in Simi Valley, Exit 22B is labelled "Madera Rd North", and traffic exiting there must turn right onto Madera Rd northbound.  Exit 22A is labelled "Madera Rd South", and traffic exiting there reaches a traffic signal where it can turn either left (northbound) or right (southbound) onto Madera Rd.
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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2022, 12:42:02 PM »

The discussion of US 29 in Maryland reminded me of NY 342 west at I-81 south.  The signed movement is the loop ramp, but practically everybody just takes the left turn.

I-78 in New York always had two exits for Hudson Street exiting the Holland Tunnel.
Looks like it on a map, but nope.
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SectorZ

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2022, 12:47:18 PM »

One that is not marked... On I-95 N/B in Lynnfield, if you miss the exit for US 1 S/B, the N/B exit takes you to both directions.
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jp the roadgeek

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2022, 12:49:37 PM »

A couple on the Taconic Parkway:

Exit 17A is marked for 202/35 East, but either direction can be accessed.  17B (Bear Mountain Pkwy) only offers access to 202/35 West.

Exit 19 Northbound is marked for NY 132, but offers easy access to US 6.  Exit 20 is the marked exit for US 6.   
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 05:33:56 PM by jp the roadgeek »
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hbelkins

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2022, 01:27:28 PM »

There's a redundant entrance to I-64 from US 119 at the end of Corridor G in Charleston. There's a ramp that leads to a flyover that's accessible from the right lane. Then, there's a left turn from the left lane that leads to the same ramp.

https://goo.gl/maps/MozUWuAiwXFo765K6
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skluth

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2022, 04:39:59 PM »

Also in the St. Louis area:

* I-44 at MO 141 in Fenton:  WB I-44 to SB MO 141 can be accomplished by using the newer loop ramp or making a left.  There's a somewhat similar situation for SB MO 141 to EB I-44:  The movement can be made using the newer flyover or making a left turn at South Highway Drive and using the previous ramp.

* I-270/I-255 to US 61-67: First ramp comes off the former C-D roadway for the ramps to I-55.  Then there's the second, older ramp from I-255 to US 61-67 east of I-55, though getting through traffic entering I-255 from I-55 can get interesting.

* Prior to the rebuild that added flyovers to the I-44/I-270 interchange, it was possible to get from EB I-44 to EB MO 366 by going through the C-D roadway with the ramps to I-270 or taking the later direct ramp.

The second is going to different parts of US 61/67. The first is going to Lindbergh (also US 50/61/67) west of South County Mall. The second goes to Lemay Ferry Rd (US 61/67) east of the mall. It's not much different than the two NB I-55 to South Broadway ramps, first by the Wiffledome and the second just south of the Brewery. Or using the EB I-44 to Watson Road exit to get to Lindbergh not far from the I-44/Lindbergh exit.

I hated that suicide crossing of the C-D lane to Watson Rd entrance and NB I-270 to EB I-44 ramp. The current layout is much better and safer. And the flyover at MO 141 was much needed; MODOT definitely got that one right.
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ethanhopkin14

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2022, 06:31:52 PM »

I immediately thought of southbound Mopac in south Austin.  Yes, the first ramp is labeled Frontage road for access to the hotel, but both that exit and the Eastbound US-290/TX-71/Southwest Parkway exit after that are really for 290 and Southwest Parkway.

Maybe this doesn't count because it's service road vs. mainlines, but in El Paso there is a stack on top of a cloverleaf effectively having two exists for every movement in the interchange. 
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Revive 755

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2022, 10:12:55 PM »

Also in the St. Louis area:

* I-44 at MO 141 in Fenton:  WB I-44 to SB MO 141 can be accomplished by using the newer loop ramp or making a left.  There's a somewhat similar situation for SB MO 141 to EB I-44:  The movement can be made using the newer flyover or making a left turn at South Highway Drive and using the previous ramp.

* I-270/I-255 to US 61-67: First ramp comes off the former C-D roadway for the ramps to I-55.  Then there's the second, older ramp from I-255 to US 61-67 east of I-55, though getting through traffic entering I-255 from I-55 can get interesting.

* Prior to the rebuild that added flyovers to the I-44/I-270 interchange, it was possible to get from EB I-44 to EB MO 366 by going through the C-D roadway with the ramps to I-270 or taking the later direct ramp.

The second is going to different parts of US 61/67. The first is going to Lindbergh (also US 50/61/67) west of South County Mall. The second goes to Lemay Ferry Rd (US 61/67) east of the mall.

The ramps I had in mind connect to Lemay Ferry, not Lindbergh. One tines into the intersection with Forder Road, the other one just north of the intersection with Forder Road.
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roadman65

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2022, 10:33:42 PM »

The discussion of US 29 in Maryland reminded me of NY 342 west at I-81 south.  The signed movement is the loop ramp, but practically everybody just takes the left turn.

I-78 in New York always had two exits for Hudson Street exiting the Holland Tunnel.
Looks like it on a map, but nope.

The turn prohibition at the signal was added later. Right turns onto Hudson were originally allowed.
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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2022, 10:28:38 AM »

PA Turnpike Northeast Extension (I-476) northbound traffic can exit to PA 63 using the slip ramp originally intended for EZ-Pass users only, or can use the original exit that passes through the old toll booth.

Similarly, PA 63 traffic wishing to access I-476 southbound can use the EZ-Pass slip ramp or the original ramps via the old toll booth.

I'm fairly certain that, with the change to cashless tolling, all traffic can use any of the ramps now, making them truly redundant.
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MikeTheActuary

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2022, 01:21:30 PM »

Although it's not advertised, eastbound US 78 (Lamar Ave) at the southern I-240 interchange has two opportunities to access I-240 in either direction.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Southaven,+MS/@35.0809219,-89.9564259,692m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x887f89df94363561:0x6a91a4b490ac7cbd!8m2!3d34.9918587!4d-90.0022958
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skluth

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2022, 05:31:39 PM »

Also in the St. Louis area:

* I-44 at MO 141 in Fenton:  WB I-44 to SB MO 141 can be accomplished by using the newer loop ramp or making a left.  There's a somewhat similar situation for SB MO 141 to EB I-44:  The movement can be made using the newer flyover or making a left turn at South Highway Drive and using the previous ramp.

* I-270/I-255 to US 61-67: First ramp comes off the former C-D roadway for the ramps to I-55.  Then there's the second, older ramp from I-255 to US 61-67 east of I-55, though getting through traffic entering I-255 from I-55 can get interesting.

* Prior to the rebuild that added flyovers to the I-44/I-270 interchange, it was possible to get from EB I-44 to EB MO 366 by going through the C-D roadway with the ramps to I-270 or taking the later direct ramp.

The second is going to different parts of US 61/67. The first is going to Lindbergh (also US 50/61/67) west of South County Mall. The second goes to Lemay Ferry Rd (US 61/67) east of the mall.

The ramps I had in mind connect to Lemay Ferry, not Lindbergh. One tines into the intersection with Forder Road, the other one just north of the intersection with Forder Road.
Got it. I usually drove I-55 when I lived in So County so I tend to forget the ramp by the White Castle. Strangely, you can turn left or right at the end of both ramps.
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JustDrive

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2022, 09:35:28 PM »

I-5 NB has two ramps for Roxford Street, and they both have EB and WB access. The difference is that the first ramp has a truck restriction.
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Roadsguy

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2022, 10:14:17 AM »

Near Duncannon, PA, the interchange between US 11/15 (which runs SW-NE through the interchange) and US 22/322 (which runs N-S) features separate direct ramps from WB 22/322 to NB 11/15 and SB 11/15, followed immediately by the local exit for Amity Hall. Turning right from the end of that third ramp leads immediately to local on-ramps to both directions of 11/15. Similarly, the EB local exit from 22/322 (which is actually the only way to get to NB 11/15 from that direction) also allows for a second way to get to SB 11/15 for the same reason.
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jay8g

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2022, 03:12:29 AM »

In Federal Way, westbound SR 18 traffic can get to SR 161 either by exiting to SB I-5 and then taking the relatively-new ramp next to the I-5 overpass (which is not accessible from I-5 itself), or by continuing straight and turning left at the intersection.

In Tukwila, at the end of southbound SR 599, the only two options both take you to SB I-5, and it's even signed as such. The left ramp (which used to be signed just for HOV traffic and people heading to NB 405) goes to the left side of I-5, and the right ramp goes to the right side (and there's nothing stopping people from taking the right ramp and merging all the way over to the left).

In Tacoma, either exit 132 or 133 allow access to I-705/SR 7 (and both also allow you to get back on northbound I-5, which can be useful in some traffic conditions). Further east, either exit 134 or 135 access NB SR 167, with 135 just skipping a couple signals.

In Silverdale, northbound SR 3 to southbound SR 303 and northbound SR 303 to southbound SR 3 both have two options. Coming from SR 3, the second option is better because it is free-flow, but coming from SR 303, one involves a left turn but the other involves going straight through two signals and then a free right, so either could probably be more efficient depending on when within their cycles you hit the signals in question.
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andrepoiy

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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2022, 11:30:59 AM »

Then there is this oddity from southbound 416 to westbound 401 in Ontario. My sat-nav wanted me to take the longer way where you exit 416 to 16, then exit that to the right onto 401. I followed it just to see if there was any particular reason to go that way. There wasn't. Maybe whoever programmed the sat-nav knew the BGS for the longer route says "TO/VERS U.S.A." and got confused when programming it.

Going eastbound on the 401 and approaching this exit, there's a sign that says "OTTAWA ALTERNATE EXIT, via 16".



I'm guessing in the extremely rare event that the regular ramps are closed, that's when you'd take 16.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 11:33:14 AM by andrepoiy »
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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2022, 11:56:38 AM »

If it's after the main exit, the sign doesn't really need the "Alternate Exit" legend on it, since at that point it would be the main route.
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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2022, 12:01:16 PM »

Following the pattern of the other Washington State posts above me by jay8g:

In Bellevue, northbound 148 Ave SE can be accessed three different ways: (1) exit 11B from eastbound I-90, which is a flyover; (2) exit 11A, staying left and then taking the loop ramp onto northbound 150 Ave SE (and then staying straight onto 148 Ave SE); or, (3) taking exit 11A, staying right, and then turning left at the end of the ramp onto northbound 150 Ave SE (and then staying straight onto 148 Ave SE). This interchange has some other redundancy in it, but it's just for arterial movements.
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Re: A Second Chance (Redundant Ramps)
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2022, 02:53:36 PM »

Meeting the parenthetical, but not main, criteria of the thread: https://goo.gl/maps/HuzmC7AkATcHD3Sn8

Both making the left turn and taking the right hand ramp will allow the driver to access EB MD-200, but only one sign says so. They are redundant, but are at nearly the same place on Shady Grove Road so neither is exactly "a second chance". (WB I-370 can only be accessed by the RH ramp.)
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