The Atlantic Time Zone reimagined

[1995hoo]

I've come to the conclusion that anyone who suggests time zones on the fringe "don't need to change" doesn't live in an area with 4am sunrises in the summer and 4pm sunsets in the winter...

Regarding football games...given the past precedent (NFL and TV networks wanting to synchronize for maximum viewing) suggested by TheHighwayMan394, schedules would be adjusted should regions shift time zones, so it's much less of an issue than the kid and 1995hoo are making it out to be.

Any such night games at Foxborough would probably start at 8 or 8:30 Atlantic time if this were to be.

I think you misunderstood my point. I don't mean it's a big issue for the league. Games everywhere except Foxboro would certainly continue to be played on the same schedule they are now. As to Foxboro, during September and October there would be no issue at all since New England would be on Atlantic Standard Time, which is the same as Eastern Daylight Time. Games in Foxboro in November and December, when that location would be an hour ahead of Eastern Time, might or might not be moved up an hour earlier because who knows how the NFL and the networks might react to having the Sunday night game potentially competing with the other networks' broadcasts. I tend to think for the one or two times a year this might be likely to be an issue it wouldn't be a huge problem, but who knows. (Monday and Thursday night games don't really pose the same issue because there's no other game at the same time, unless perhaps the Patriots hosted the night game on Thanksgiving.) It wasn't an issue for UEFA the year the Champions League final was played in Moscow–they kicked off at 11 PM local time to keep it at a reasonable time in the rest of Europe. We've already seen the NFL's willingness to play games at times that may not be ideal for some viewers, as the London games this year generally kicked off at 2:30 PM London Time (9:30 AM Eastern, which is 6:30 AM Pacific). They did make an exception for the Cardinals—Rams game in London, which was played at 1:00 PM Eastern (10:00 AM Pacific).

Anyway, I was referring to viewers in those states, and I was responding to TheHighwayMan394. He said only one team would be affected by the change. My point was that it's not the team so much as anyone in that area watching a night game. That is, if the Redskins host the Cowboys on Sunday Night Football after the clocks go back, if Maine were on Atlantic Time the game would air at 9:25 PM in Maine. Do I think this is all that big a deal? Not really. You get used to it, or you just don't watch to the end (many of us on Eastern Time don't watch night games through to the end). Same way if you're in the Central Time Zone you get used to shows airing at weird times–when I worked in Montgomery one summer, it was really weird having Seinfeld airing at 8:00, but I got used to it very quickly. I'm sure people on the Island of Newfoundland deal just fine with programming being on rather late at night (a show airing at 9:00 Eastern Time airs at 10:30 in Newfoundland).

Nowadays, of course, TV is far less of an issue than it used to be, at least for non-sports or other non-live programming, because of DVRs. I think we can all agree DVRs are far more convenient than VCRs when it comes to dealing with shows that air at inconvenient times!

[NWI_Irish96]

The time zone lines suggested and the elimination of DST only makes things worse for the areas actually trying to get to AST.  You would be putting New England and the NYC area in a permanent state of 4 PM sunsets in the winter and 4 AM sunrises in the summer.  I just read my idea from a couple of years ago, and the line that I proposed puts all of the Boston-DC corridor, Montreal, Ottawa, and Quebec City on AST.  The line would run from just west of the Ottawa Metro parallel to ON 416 to the border, then along the St. Lawrence and through Lake Ontario in NY along the western borders of Cayuga, Tompkins and Tioga counties; through PA on the western borders of Tioga, Lycoming, Union, Snyder, Juniata, and Franklin counties, MD on the western border of Washington County, WV on the western border of Berkeley County, and then cut east through VA in the following fashion:

http://www.mappery.com/maps/Virginia-Counties-Map.jpg

VACO regions 1-3 and 6-8 would be included in this area, then the line arcs around in the Atlantic so that Bermuda would be included.  North Carolina is far enough west to stay in Eastern Time, as is Rochester, NY, Pittsburgh, and southwestern VA

Suffolk County's shortest day is 12/21, with an EST sunrise of 7:12 and sunset of 4:25.  That's as centered around noon as you can get.  You can't prevent sunsets before 5pm that far north unless you're moving sunrise to an unreasonably late time in the morning. 

[jeffandnicole]

The time zone lines suggested and the elimination of DST only makes things worse for the areas actually trying to get to AST.  You would be putting New England and the NYC area in a permanent state of 4 PM sunsets in the winter and 4 AM sunrises in the summer.

The proposal as stated above has nothing to do with the NYC area, as Connecticut isn't in the plans to switch.  And for that matter, only 3 of the 6 New England States are referenced. 

[kkt]

Seattle's latest sunrise is 7:57 AM, and earliest sunset is 4:17 PM.

Our earliest sunrise is 5:11 and latest sunset is 9:11 PM (PDT).

I'm really glad we have daylight savings time.  We certainly don't need 4:11 AM sunrises or 3:17 PM sunsets.

[CNGL-Leudimin]

My proposal:

1) Start by drawing the lines where they belong:
Atlantic/Eastern at 67.5 West
Eastern/Central at 82.5 West
Central/Mountain at 97.5 West
Mountain/Pacific at 112.5 West

2) For any media market split by those lines, put the entire market in the easternmost time zone if more than 1/3 of the market lives east of the line, otherwise put the entire market in the westernmost time zone

3) Eliminate DST, or at the very least reduce it from the 3rd weekend in March to the 4th weekend in September.

I agree. If we extend this East to Europe, then it becomes clear Spain should be in Western Europe, not Central Europe as it stands now. But somehow we have already adjusted our customs accordingly, so switching back would require to do everything "earlier".

3. DST was fine when we matched what Europe did. When we extended it a few years ago, it became more of a problem. (Side note: one of the radio/clock/CD players in my house still uses the former DST days instead of the current ones.)

Yup. For forum purposes I use Eastern but with European DST rules, which for a few days a year (such as last week) puts me in Central instead. Note that this is different from what I've configured, which matches my local time except for those same days, when it's off by one hour.

[jeffandnicole]

Seattle's latest sunrise is 7:57 AM, and earliest sunset is 4:17 PM.

Our earliest sunrise is 5:11 and latest sunset is 9:11 PM (PDT).

I'm really glad we have daylight savings time.  We certainly don't need 4:11 AM sunrises or 3:17 PM sunsets.

You wouldn't get that 3:17pm sunset if daylights savings time was eliminated.  Your earliest sunset is at 4:17 standard time.  If DST existed all year long, it would be a 5:17 sunset.  But it wouldn't go backwards.

[02 Park Ave]

A bigger problem is how far the Eastern time zone extends into the mid-West.  The boundary should be a little west of Cleveland, around Sandusky.  All of Michigan and all of Indiana should be on Central time. The way it is now their Eastern sunrise and sunset times are way out of whack.

Also, it is Daylight Saving Time, not Savings, as was pointed out recently in the Washington Post.

[kkt]

Seattle's latest sunrise is 7:57 AM, and earliest sunset is 4:17 PM.

Our earliest sunrise is 5:11 and latest sunset is 9:11 PM (PDT).

I'm really glad we have daylight savings time.  We certainly don't need 4:11 AM sunrises or 3:17 PM sunsets.

You wouldn't get that 3:17pm sunset if daylights savings time was eliminated.  Your earliest sunset is at 4:17 standard time.  If DST existed all year long, it would be a 5:17 sunset.  But it wouldn't go backwards.

You're right, we wouldn't get a 3:17pm sunset.

But if we had year-round DST, we'd get a 8:57am sunrise in midwinter, so pretty much all the morning AND afternoon commutes would be in darkness.  I'm glad we don't have that either.

[froggie]

The time zone lines suggested and the elimination of DST only makes things worse for the areas actually trying to get to AST.  You would be putting New England and the NYC area in a permanent state of 4 PM sunsets in the winter and 4 AM sunrises in the summer.

The latter part of this is not true.  If New England was in AST, the earliest sunsets (far eastern Maine) would be around quarter-to-five.  And just after 5 where I live.  I'm fine with that.  It means I'd have a sunrise pushing close to 8:30am around New Year's, but I'd rather have that than a 4pm sunset.

[NWI_Irish96]

The time zone lines suggested and the elimination of DST only makes things worse for the areas actually trying to get to AST.  You would be putting New England and the NYC area in a permanent state of 4 PM sunsets in the winter and 4 AM sunrises in the summer.

The latter part of this is not true.  If New England was in AST, the earliest sunsets (far eastern Maine) would be around quarter-to-five.  And just after 5 where I live.  I'm fine with that.  It means I'd have a sunrise pushing close to 8:30am around New Year's, but I'd rather have that than a 4pm sunset.

An awful lot of kids get on school buses between 7:30 and 8:30, which is why an awful lot of people would not be OK with a sunrise pushing 8:30. 

[Roadgeekteen]

I would rather have it be a bit dark in the morning than dark at 4 pm.

[NWI_Irish96]

I would rather have it be a bit dark in the morning than dark at 4 pm.

As a teenager and maybe maybe even as a parent of a teenager, but as a parent of small kids, I'd really rather not have it be dark when they're boarding their school bus at 7:45. 

[jeffandnicole]

As mentioned, a time zone change affects everything.  So not only would MNF (And TNF and SNF) start at 9:30, but most likely every show will start an hour later.  The networks won't be too keen on allowing a small fraction of the country to have the shows on an hour earlier, so 'Prime Time' in the Atlantic Time Zone would be 9pm to midnight, not 8pm to 11pm.  And thus, the nightly 11pm news would be midnight news.  Much of this will be too late for people that still have to be at school or work in the morning.

This happens already. Mountain time sees shows an hour later than Eastern and Central time. Pacific sees them 3 hours later.
And in Central and Mountain time, the evening news is at 10 pm.

Re-read what you highlighted: A small fraction of the country.  The other time zones are roughly 1/4 of the country each.