California

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^^^
Nice pix per usual, Max.  Noticed something interesting (and not connected to Panoche) with the map segment shown:  it appears that the southern access to Yosemite (today's CA 41) originally curved west onto what is now CA 145 toward Madera, and that the connection south over the San Joaquin River likely occurred at a later date.  Would be informative to do some research on this -- to see if the Yosemite road was originally part of LRN 126 passing through Madera and if LRN 125 originally had its northern terminus in Fresno (with LRN 76 using Blackstone, later LRN 125, to get out to Shaw Ave. before turning east toward the foothills).  Probably need to access some maps from '26-'29 to determine the above.

In any case, there's the interesting aside about using Gorman Post Road to circumvent potential I-5 traffic issues; there used to be a nice coffee shop called "Flames" in Gorman right at Gorman Post and the center-of-town interchange; it seems to have closed in the mid-80's, but served a mean breakfast up until that time!   

[Max Rockatansky]

During the Signed State Highway era I have it sorted out with the San Joaquin River crossings.  With CA 41 it was originally routed on the 1889 Lanes Bridge until a trucker destroyed it:

https://www.gribblenation.org/2019/04/1889-lanes-bridge-location-old.html?m=1

While the 1941 Lanes Bridge was being built CA 41 had a temporarily alignment through Friant over the 1906 North Fork Bridge:

https://www.gribblenation.org/2017/10/1906-north-fork-road-bridge-ruins.html?m=1

The 1941 Lanes Bridge is still part of CA 41 post mileage and was recently retrofitted:

https://www.gribblenation.org/2017/10/1941-lanes-bridge-renovations-old.html?m=1

LRN 125 and 126 were 1933 State Highway adoptions.  LRN 76 I believe was circa 1931?   Going into the way back machine it appears that most Yosemite Stage Routes from the south originated in Madera and Raymond in Wawona:

https://www.gribblenation.org/2018/02/history-of-wawona-road-yosemite.html?m=1

Gorman Post is still handy if you want get some fast to eat and don't care if it's Carl's Jr. or McDonalds.  Most people skip Gorman and Grapevine in favor of the fancy pants modern stuff up in Wheeler Ridge. 

[sparker]

Yeah, Wheeler Ridge is certainly in somewhat of a growth pattern, what with the warehousing/distribution facilities next to I-5 as well as the expansion of roadside convenience facilities.  Similar in several ways to the north side of Cajon Pass/I-5; distribution facilities have taken hold around the US 395 divergence -- although one still has to get to the Main Street exit in Hesperia before extensive road-related amenities are found (probably due to the multi-acre higher-end housing straddling the freeway in Oak Hill).   Still miss Summit Inn, though! -- apparently the owners elected not to rebuild (maybe a wise decision; no matter what they put up, it wouldn't have been the same!).

[Max Rockatansky]

I did enjoy the Summit Inn quite a bit.  I used to stop there on my way from San Bernanrdino on the way to Clark County, NV and Mohave County, AZ.  Really all that's left of the Summit Inn is just the marque which wasn't heavily damaged in the fire.  While it wouldn't be the same it would still could be something with ties to US 66/91/395 and be a welcome change of pace to all the chains in the area.  It can be done right with care, it worked for Tortilla Flat on AZ 88 when it burned down.

[sparker]

Unfortunately, most of the US 66 memorabilia contained in the restaurant went up in flames with the building; that was one fast-moving wall of fire!   I'm surprise it didn't take more of Oak Hill than it did -- but according to a friend who still lives in Hesperia, most properties there had cleared out a lot of open space around their houses -- and almost all had tile roofs.  So only a few places right along the hillside were affected.   Starting to play (music) again; some friends and I are having regular jam sessions (myself on keyboards for the time being), so as to broaden my contribution I'll probably be doing another brief trip down there in order to retrieve my guitars and amps in storage.  Might just make a bit of a detour via Barstow on the return trip in order to drive the Hinkley upgrades on CA 58. 

I'm going to hit 70 later this year -- but what the hell, rock & roll never dies!     

[SoCal Kid]

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1220086,-117.3137447,3a,15y,176.75h,98.64t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sk9QpGuWYxRC3ejzbTV7kJQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dk9QpGuWYxRC3ejzbTV7kJQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D105.62036%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

Noticed that arrow sign, it's black with a white background, not white with a blue background. I guess that arrow was from when US 101 went to San Diego and Caltrans never replaced it. To confirm, I was there this weekend and was the same as in this street view.

[NE2]

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1220086,-117.3137447,3a,15y,176.75h,98.64t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sk9QpGuWYxRC3ejzbTV7kJQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dk9QpGuWYxRC3ejzbTV7kJQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D105.62036%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

Noticed that arrow sign, it's black with a white background, not white with a blue background. I guess that arrow was from when US 101 went to San Diego and Caltrans never replaced it. To confirm, I was there this weekend and was the same as in this street view.

It can't be that old. What's Caltrans doing there anyway?

[Max Rockatansky]

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1220086,-117.3137447,3a,15y,176.75h,98.64t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sk9QpGuWYxRC3ejzbTV7kJQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dk9QpGuWYxRC3ejzbTV7kJQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D105.62036%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

Noticed that arrow sign, it's black with a white background, not white with a blue background. I guess that arrow was from when US 101 went to San Diego and Caltrans never replaced it. To confirm, I was there this weekend and was the same as in this street view.

It can't be that old. What's Caltrans doing there anyway?

Palomar Airport Road is part of County Route S12, likely the signage comes from San Diego County. 

[mrsman]

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1220086,-117.3137447,3a,15y,176.75h,98.64t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sk9QpGuWYxRC3ejzbTV7kJQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dk9QpGuWYxRC3ejzbTV7kJQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D105.62036%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

Noticed that arrow sign, it's black with a white background, not white with a blue background. I guess that arrow was from when US 101 went to San Diego and Caltrans never replaced it. To confirm, I was there this weekend and was the same as in this street view.

It can't be that old. What's Caltrans doing there anyway?

Palomar Airport Road is part of County Route S12, likely the signage comes from San Diego County.

I agree that the signage can't be that old, because the signal structure is likely not that old.  Those types of signal stantions are  not older than early 1990's.

[SoCal Kid]

One my friends from AZ said that it was likely used when blue-white arrows ran out. Apparently thats a thing AZ does.

[sparker]

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1220086,-117.3137447,3a,15y,176.75h,98.64t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sk9QpGuWYxRC3ejzbTV7kJQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dk9QpGuWYxRC3ejzbTV7kJQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D105.62036%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

Noticed that arrow sign, it's black with a white background, not white with a blue background. I guess that arrow was from when US 101 went to San Diego and Caltrans never replaced it. To confirm, I was there this weekend and was the same as in this street view.

It can't be that old. What's Caltrans doing there anyway?

Palomar Airport Road is part of County Route S12, likely the signage comes from San Diego County.

I agree that the signage can't be that old, because the signal structure is likely not that old.  Those types of signal stantions are  not older than early 1990's.

One my friends from AZ said that it was likely used when blue-white arrows ran out. Apparently thats a thing AZ does.

Pretty much every agency that posts signage has done that at one time or another.  If the corporate yard is out of one color scheme, they'll utilize another -- even if it is mismatched -- as long as the information conveyed is correct.  And they won't be in any particular hurry to replace it with a matching directional indicator -- it probably won't be "corrected" until the entire sign assembly is replaced or removed.   Not considered an earthshaking issue by any means!

[Max Rockatansky]

Put together something on Gribblenation regarding the location of the fictional Hill Valley on US 8/US 395:

https://www.gribblenation.org/2019/06/where-hell-is-hill-valley-us-route-8.html?m=1

[sparker]

Put together something on Gribblenation regarding the location of the fictional Hill Valley on US 8/US 395:

https://www.gribblenation.org/2019/06/where-hell-is-hill-valley-us-route-8.html?m=1

FYI, much of the film was shot in Huntington Beach, CA -- including scenes on the then-SP (former Pacific Electric) HB branch line paralleling Western Ave.   That would put it about 40-45 miles west of the last iteration of US 395 in SoCal (I'm not going to try to calculate how much west of US 8 it would be!).   And you think our Fictional can be a bit ridiculous at times.............

[Occidental Tourist]

What parts were shot in Huntington Beach?

[sparker]

What parts were shot in Huntington Beach?

To be honest, all the Back to the Future films run together to me -- since the only times that I've seen them was with friends who had the boxed set of DVD's -- and we "binge-watched" all three original movies.  The last time I saw them was in the late '90's, so I'm uncertain if the segment filmed on the HB tracks (which the Michael J. Fox character used to get the DeLorean up to speed) was in the first ('85) film; it could have been within one of the two immediate sequels (I'm sure there are more exacting fans of these who could pinpoint the precise sequence).  I do know that I recognized the tracks immediately -- they immediately parallel a high-tension transmission line and have a cinder-block wall separating the corridor from adjacent housing (otherwise looks like a generic OC "flatland" housing tract).  At some point I'll have to watch them again and see just where in the 3-film sequence the RR track segment occurs.

[chays]

Question for those who might be more familiar with this regarding I-8 in California.
CalTrans is showing (http://www.dot.ca.gov/cgi-bin/roads.cgi?roadnumber=8&submit=Search) a road closure with detour for I-8:

IS CLOSED TO WESTBOUND TRAFFIC FROM THE JCT OF SR 98 TO 9.3 MI WEST OF THE JCT OF SR 98 (IMPERIAL CO) 24 HRS A DAY THRU 1700 HRS ON 8/30/19 - DUE TO CONSTRUCTION - A DETOUR IS AVAILABLE

and

IS CLOSED TO EASTBOUND TRAFFIC FROM 6.3 MI EAST OF THE JCT OF SR 115 TO THE JCT OF SR 98 (IMPERIAL CO) 24 HRS A DAY THRU 1700 HRS ON 8/30/19 - DUE TO CONSTRUCTION - A DETOUR IS AVAILABLE

These advisories have been up for a while, yet I cannot find any news stories on this (you'd think such a major closure would be news worth), not any other information on them.  Google Maps also is not re-routing on its routes here, so I'm questioning what this "road closure" might actually be.
I remember seeing something similar for I-15 last year, and I believe it turned out to be frontage roads or something.

Any thoughts?

[Occidental Tourist]

The 1985 railroad track scenes were shot in Port Hueneme.  The link has a street view of the railroad crossing.
https://backtothefuture.fandom.com/wiki/Railroad_crossing
Scenes from the three movies were shot at various locations in the Valley, in Oxnard, in Whittier, in Pasadena, at the Puente Hills Mall, at Griffith Park, on the Universal Backlot, in Monument Valley, and at an old west town set built near the town of Sonora.  I don't believe any scenes were shot in Orange County.

[mrsman]

I don't have as much as a problem as others regarding 395 being E-W and 8 being N-S.

For one thing, if you take a close look at the map of Bishop, CA, you will see that at the junction at the north end of town, US 395 is E-W and it merges into a N-S US 6. (following compass direction).

Of course, we now have US 395 as the dominant highway to the south of there, post  1964.  But it was certainly feasible to pick US 6 instead as the road that continues south, since more traffic will head toward L.A. then San Bernardino at the southern split in Indian Wells.  Also, the joint US6-US 395 is part of Sierra Highway and was once part of CA-7 (which continued toward L.A., not SB).  Even though in practice, US 6 was signed as an E-W route in California, a higway from Bishop to Long Beach would make sense as being signed N-S.

So in an alternate post-1964 universe, US 395 will terminate in Bishop.  The road from Indian Wells to Hesperia is renumbered as another state highway.  US 6 is signed as a N-S highway in all of California, from Nevada, through Bishop and along the Sierra Highway until it reaches I-5 in Santa Clarita.

[pderocco]

Question for those who might be more familiar with this regarding I-8 in California.
CalTrans is showing (http://www.dot.ca.gov/cgi-bin/roads.cgi?roadnumber=8&submit=Search) a road closure with detour for I-8:

IS CLOSED TO WESTBOUND TRAFFIC FROM THE JCT OF SR 98 TO 9.3 MI WEST OF THE JCT OF SR 98 (IMPERIAL CO) 24 HRS A DAY THRU 1700 HRS ON 8/30/19 - DUE TO CONSTRUCTION - A DETOUR IS AVAILABLE

and

IS CLOSED TO EASTBOUND TRAFFIC FROM 6.3 MI EAST OF THE JCT OF SR 115 TO THE JCT OF SR 98 (IMPERIAL CO) 24 HRS A DAY THRU 1700 HRS ON 8/30/19 - DUE TO CONSTRUCTION - A DETOUR IS AVAILABLE

These advisories have been up for a while, yet I cannot find any news stories on this (you'd think such a major closure would be news worth), not any other information on them.  Google Maps also is not re-routing on its routes here, so I'm questioning what this "road closure" might actually be.
I remember seeing something similar for I-15 last year, and I believe it turned out to be frontage roads or something.

Any thoughts?

Just a few years ago, they completely rebuilt I-8 between CA-98 and Felicity, using the old US-80 Evan Hewes Hwy for WB traffic. You can see shoeflies and empty pieces of road in some of the '16 and '17 aerial imagery. So now there's one stretch of the old US-80 that has really nice pavement, instead of fifty-year-old washboard. It sounds like they are getting ready to do the same thing for the next ten miles to the west.

[Max Rockatansky]

The Freeways of Los Angeles Facebook group posted a publication regarding the 1964 State Highway Renumbering.  What I found interesting was the publication cited 1934 as the year the Division of Highways took over signage responsibilities from the Auto Clubs:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/FreewaysLA/permalink/1358158047665003?sfns=mo

[TheStranger]

The Freeways of Los Angeles Facebook group posted a publication regarding the 1964 State Highway Renumbering.  What I found interesting was the publication cited 1934 as the year the Division of Highways took over signage responsibilities from the Auto Clubs:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/FreewaysLA/permalink/1358158047665003?sfns=mo

Ooh, would that mean - if this is correct - the CSAA/ACSC era of signage was the 1928-1934 US route era in California only?   I had always been under the impression that the auto clubs were involved throughout the bear shield era, with the white version of the modern spade (1956) being under Division of Highways and everything else thereafter.

[Max Rockatansky]

The Freeways of Los Angeles Facebook group posted a publication regarding the 1964 State Highway Renumbering.  What I found interesting was the publication cited 1934 as the year the Division of Highways took over signage responsibilities from the Auto Clubs:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/FreewaysLA/permalink/1358158047665003?sfns=mo

Ooh, would that mean - if this is correct - the CSAA/ACSC era of signage was the 1928-1934 US route era in California only?   I had always been under the impression that the auto clubs were involved throughout the bear shield era, with the white version of the modern spade (1956) being under Division of Highways and everything else thereafter.

I could be wrong but I believe they were involved in the production of the signage until abbot then.  This is kind where I would normally consult some of the signage experts that used to be here but it seems there are a lot of people in the know that have dropped off the radar. 

[ClassicHasClass]

They may not have been producing route markers, but they definitely still produced signs. This is a nice timeline: http://www.caltrafficsigns.com/chronology.php

[Max Rockatansky]

They may not have been producing route markers, but they definitely still produced signs. This is a nice timeline: http://www.caltrafficsigns.com/chronology.php

That's interesting, way more in line with what I thought the timeline would really look like.  I always wonder how long the ACSC and CSAA were allowed to go off the reservation signing state highways on non-state maintained roads.  The practice appeared at least on paper until circa 1938 state Highway maps. 

[sparker]

They may not have been producing route markers, but they definitely still produced signs. This is a nice timeline: http://www.caltrafficsigns.com/chronology.php

That's interesting, way more in line with what I thought the timeline would really look like.  I always wonder how long the ACSC and CSAA were allowed to go off the reservation signing state highways on non-state maintained roads.  The practice appeared at least on paper until circa 1938 state Highway maps. 

The signage chronology omits one detail:  the smaller "bear" shields, by that time all white enamel/porcelain on steel with button copy numerals, were no longer produced after 1953; instead a larger and wider shield with only "California" arched over the number -- but still black on white -- started to be deployed.  Earlier versions maintained the white enamel and button copy; around 1959 the switch was made to reflective signs rather than button copy, maintaining the larger size.  These signs displayed an "off-white" or "eggshell" background color rather than the bright white of the previous button-copy shields.  The size and format continued after 1964 for state highways, but with green replacing the off-white and white replacing black for the state name and route number.