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Started by mgk920, September 12, 2012, 02:19:57 PM

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edwaleni

Quote from: captkirk_4 on August 22, 2017, 09:12:23 AM
Well, if ever they needed I-39 to be finished down to southern IL it was yesterday. It was the worst traffic I've ever seen in my life, worse than any Chicago Expressway. The entire road network south of I-64 was a parking lot. Going down US 51 those towns south of I64 had their act together, they had police directing traffic at the intersections in the small towns waving the columns through. Coming back up on the eastern side of the state was a different story. I-57 was completely stopped and had a 15 mile 3 lane backup into Carbondale waiting to get on. Tried US45 and route 1 and there was a half hour 5 mile backup at every single small town south of I-64. Unlike US 51 these places like Eldorado, Carmi, Crossville made no attempt to have any police (do they even have a police force?) to wave the traffic through red lights, instead the entire 5 mile column had to wait every other minute at a red light in some empty town where absolutely no cross-traffic was there to even need the light. 8 hour drive from Carbondale to Champaign 6 hours of which were just to get up to I-64. Once IL 130 branched off the traffic ended altough I saw I57 at Tuscola at 9pm and it was packed and only moving at around 45 50mph. Massive Wisconsin presence from all their plates I saw in Carbondale so have no clue as to how long it took them to get home.

Well, when the next eclipse comes through in 2024, you can crab about a different route.  I would say it isn't IDOT's fault they couldn't anticipate the traffic for something like an eclipse, not Crossville or Carmi, IL police departments.  I don't think a I-39 extension all the way to Cairo would have helped the traffic the state had dealt with before and after.


edwaleni

Quote from: Brandon on August 22, 2017, 11:55:57 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on August 22, 2017, 09:50:49 AM
Was there ever talk of tolling the section of I-88 between the Quad Cities and Sterling / Rock Falls?

Not to my knowledge.  I've often wondered why ISTHA stopped at US-30 in Rock Falls with IDOT continuing the corridor to I-80.  A short route to Iowa would've been straight to Clinton, but I don't know if there were ever any plans for it.

Well, here is my understanding of I-88.

It got the I-88 shield due to a clause in the NMSL law.  Only rural roads with interstate designations could raise their limits.  At the time it was signed IL-5 and the ISTHA petitioned to get an exception. So it was signed I-88 and they raised the speed limits.  Technically when NMSL law was repealed, they could have reverted back to IL-5 and took the I-88 shields down, but why?

As for the routing of I-88, its a tortured history rife with politics.

Shortly after WWII, IDOT started purchasing ROW west of 22nd Street in DuPage County all the way to North Aurora, IL for the planned West Suburban Expressway.  That expressway was going to eventually cross the Fox River and join US30 west of Aurora and go all the way to Rock Falls.

You can even see remnants of that planned West Suburban Expressway along IL-56 (Butterfield Road) though most components have disappeared over the many upgrades IL-56 has taken. IDOT finally sold off some of the ROW at certain locations in the 1990's when it was clear it was never to be used as intended.

The ISTHA came along and wanted to build the highway to the west of Chicago, but not on IDOT ROW in the 1950's.  Originally, I-88 was supposed to "end" at I-294 in Hinsdale on the east terminus. But politics played a role as the mayor of Oakbrook called the then head of the ISTHA and asked that the road be moved north so as not to split the town in half.  There was a retail center in the works on 22nd Street, how about some land up near there?  So ISTHA got some land on the cheap to sway it north.

Now I-88 was split in two north of Oakbrook. ISTHA wanted to keep a link to Hinsdale, but IDOT wanted a connection to the planned Eisenhower Extension (at the time I-90, later I-290) since the toll road would effectively replace their own. Today, I-88, I-290, Butterfield (IL-56) and 22nd Street all cross each other within a short distance.

But then a new round of politics were fired up. Then Chicago Mayor Richard Daley (1st) didn't like the idea of the what he termed the "Congress Expressway" that had been planned since the 1930's. He wanted the Congress to end at Central Avenue, which it did at the time when it was built.

IDOT had bought up the old Chicago, Aurora & Elgin ROW, that they had owned, but never used for the their Bellwood/Forest park bypass to avoid street running. (The IDOT service yard at I-290 & Laramie is the old railyard where it connected with the CTA once upon a time)

IDOT wanted to connect that Congress Extension with their original plan for a West Suburban Expressway. But the Mayor was against it. He saw the extension as a way for people to live outside of Chicago. So a compromise was struck between Cook County, IDOT and ISTHA, the eastbound spur to the then I-90 was limited to 1 lane only and became part of what was known as the Hillside Strangler. (The mayor wanted it to be a pain, period)

Oh, the politics aren't over just yet.  When ISTHA announced the proposed route roughly following US30 as IDOT was going to do, the politicians and people in DeKalb & Northern Illinois University howled and threatened to interfere with the bond sale if there wasn't a better option presented.  So ISTHA moved the route farther north, closer to DeKalb to get them in line.

But this decision caused more problems. After it was built, no one used it. In fact, ISTHA wined for years about how I-5 from the US30 Aurora Exit to Rock Falls was a huge money loser. Transporation experts said it wasn't an optimal route because it swayed so far north. The road even got into a somewhat dilapidated state with potholes and terrible section joints. ISTHA didn't want to put any money into it and finally repaved it, but the section joints just separated further and it got worse.

When the State of Illinois passed a new law allowing ISTHA to refinance their bonds and become a somewhat permanent entity, they were no longer beholden to turn the roads back to IDOT (as they were broke anyway) and could finance their activities as part of a single transportation entity.

By this time IL-5 was a big joke. While traffic between Aurora and DeKalb was picking up, between DeKalb and Rock Falls was next to nothing. Everyone used I-80 to go west to Moline, not IL-5.  After the law passed ISTHA absorbed the cost of the IL-5 reconstruction into a larger bond refinancing to pay for the Tri-State (I-294) reconstruction. If they had it their way, they would have dumped it and given it back to IDOT.  It's still a money loser when looking at just the segment itself, but has grown into a I-80 reliever over time.

IDOT already owned the land between Rock Falls and Moline for their proposed US30 expressway and finished the route east from Moline to Rock Falls.

And what of that West Suburban Expressway IDOT had planned?  If you drive IL-56 just west of IL-59, the bridge for the former EJ&E (now CN) still has the portal for the second set of lanes.  The freeway style bridge IDOT built over the former CAE Aurora Branch (torn down now) on IL-56 had unused lanes in anticipation of the freeway.  IDOT owned a large swath of land at the intersection of IL-53 and IL-56 to build a full interchange (since sold).

So, I-88 has had a tortured history and its route was mired in politics all the way from I-294 to US30 in Rock Falls.

The most "utility" I ever got from IL-5/I-88 was after I-39 opened and I used it as a reliever to avoid I-55 logjams and accidents, or if I was going west to Des Moines on the motorcycle and wanted to avoid the trucks on I-80.

mrose

Once I-39 popped up, IL-5/I-88 kind of became the de facto route for Wisconsin traffic to get to Iowa and points west... over time this road became notorious in our circle for being famously dilapidated as well as for Illinois' audacity to charge a 95 cent toll to use it... my dad routinely scoffed at this. And we also noted the irony that the road always seemed to improve greatly once you reached the free section west of Dixon.

Between 1985 and 2000 I would have made maybe two dozen trips to Nebraska and back and I personally dreaded that 60 mile stretch or so every single time.... especially on the way back because I'd already been in the car for 5-6 hours at that point.

I'd been to Chicago and on the other tollways in Illinois enough times to conclude that 5/88 was more or less the neglected bastard child of the Illinois toll system.




Rick Powell

Checking current ADT's I-88 averages around 10,000 a day west of Sterling/Rock Falls (the IDOT toll free section), 13,000 between Rock Falls and Rochelle, 16,000 in the "free ride" piece between IL 251 and I-39, 21,000 between I-39 and DeKalb, 25,000 between Annie Glidden and Peace Road in DeKalb, 33,000 between Peace Road and IL 47, 30,000 between IL 47 and the IL 56 interchange (which will probably jump up once the full-access IL 47 interchange is built in a year or 2), where it then jumps up progressively as it moves toward I-355 and I-294, reaching about 180,000 a day just before the I-294 cutoff. The western part of I-88 is very similar to the I-44 Will Rogers Turnpike, another Midwestern rural tollway, in traffic volume (8k-13k a day on WRT depending on section), so it is not necessarily under-performing in its category.

ET21

Pretty much IL-56 to DeKalb is NIU traffic and to I-39 is Wisco/Central IL traffic. It is very empty west of Dixon from what I remember
The local weatherman, trust me I can be 99.9% right!
"Show where you're going, without forgetting where you're from"

Clinched:
IL: I-88, I-180, I-190, I-290, I-294, I-355, IL-390
IN: I-80, I-94
SD: I-190
WI: I-90, I-94
MI: I-94, I-196
MN: I-90

GeekJedi

Quote from: ET21 on September 01, 2017, 04:56:45 PM
Pretty much IL-56 to DeKalb is NIU traffic and to I-39 is Wisco/Central IL traffic. It is very empty west of Dixon from what I remember

There is plenty of commuter traffic between IL-56 and Dekalb. In fact I'd say very little is NIU traffic - the traffic count doesn't seem to change much between summer and fall/winter.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

mgk920

Quote from: GeekJedi on September 01, 2017, 08:16:37 PM
Quote from: ET21 on September 01, 2017, 04:56:45 PM
Pretty much IL-56 to DeKalb is NIU traffic and to I-39 is Wisco/Central IL traffic. It is very empty west of Dixon from what I remember

There is plenty of commuter traffic between IL-56 and Dekalb. In fact I'd say very little is NIU traffic - the traffic count doesn't seem to change much between summer and fall/winter.

Remember that Union Pacific's Global III intermodal yard is just off of I-88 at Rochelle, too.  The 'free' section is between that yard (IL 251) and I-39.

Mike

ilpt4u

Technically, the first Exit (from the West) of the Tollway, Dixon, is free as well. The ramp tolls were removed, and the toll booth is East of the exit.

So really, even tho ISTHA maintains east of the US 30 interchange/Exit 44, no tolls are collected at the IL 26/Dixon/Exit 54, so that is really the last "Free" exit before tolling begins, from the West

edwaleni

One of the remnants of the planned West Suburban Expressway planned by IDOT.

This is IL-56 just west of IL-59.


ILRoad55

Wow! But that's pretty narrow if they were thinking of doing an expressway through that overpass.

Are there any other noticeable remenants today or even from using historic aerials?

mgk920

Quote from: ILRoad55 on September 03, 2017, 09:33:24 AM
Wow! But that's pretty narrow if they were thinking of doing an expressway through that overpass.

Are there any other noticeable remenants today or even from using historic aerials?

That almost looks to me to be pre-War.  When was that built?

Mike

tribar

Quote from: mgk920 on September 03, 2017, 12:17:31 PM
Quote from: ILRoad55 on September 03, 2017, 09:33:24 AM
Wow! But that's pretty narrow if they were thinking of doing an expressway through that overpass.

Are there any other noticeable remenants today or even from using historic aerials?

That almost looks to me to be pre-War.  When was that built?

Mike

It looks very similar to the EJ&E Bridge over US 12 which opened in 1939, so I would imagine some where in that time span.

brad

Quote from: edwaleni on September 02, 2017, 09:12:11 PM
One of the remnants of the planned West Suburban Expressway planned by IDOT.

This is IL-56 just west of IL-59.



Is the intersection of Butterfield and Highland also a remnant? It's so strange to see an overpass there. I vaguely recall when Butterfield Road went up the off ramps instead of going under Highland Ave.

ILRoad55

I thought it was always because the 88 exit was just so close. That I did not know.

Joe The Dragon

Quote from: brad on September 03, 2017, 07:37:46 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on September 02, 2017, 09:12:11 PM
One of the remnants of the planned West Suburban Expressway planned by IDOT.

This is IL-56 just west of IL-59.



Is the intersection of Butterfield and Highland also a remnant? It's so strange to see an overpass there. I vaguely recall when Butterfield Road went up the off ramps instead of going under Highland Ave.

and IL-38 from I-290 to IL-83 also part of it?

ilpt4u

#665
Quote from: edwaleni on September 02, 2017, 09:12:11 PM
One of the remnants of the planned West Suburban Expressway planned by IDOT.

This is IL-56 just west of IL-59.


I was a bit shocked that IL 56 wasn't 4 Laned under the Overpass here, when they did the project around the IL 59 area, on IL 56. Not like the overpass isn't already there and that ROW is lacking...

That being said, nothing quite compares to IDOT remnants like US 50 Downstate, across the state...just on scale and scope of the remnants, anyway

Lyon Wonder

A viaduct over US 40 east of Martinsville has enough room to add 2 additional lanes for US 40.
My guess is this viaduct was built in the 1950s when Illinois originally intended to convert US 40 into a 4 lane expressway from the St Louis area to the Indiana state line.  Of course turning US 40 into an expressway fell by the wayside with the Interstate highway act in 1956 and funding to build I-70.
https://goo.gl/maps/8739NYv1TvJ2

ilpt4u

Quote from: Lyon Wonder on September 04, 2017, 04:12:10 PM
A viaduct over US 40 east of Martinsville has enough room to add 2 additional lanes for US 40.
My guess is this viaduct was built in the 1950s when Illinois originally intended to convert US 40 into a 4 lane expressway from the St Louis area to the Indiana state line.  Of course turning US 40 into an expressway fell by the wayside with the Interstate highway act in 1956 and funding to build I-70.
https://goo.gl/maps/8739NYv1TvJ2
Kinda a silly question, but why did IDOT (or its predecessor) build a new alignment I-70 instead up upgrading existing US 40, whereas I-55 was (mostly) an upgrade to existing US 66?

Is it because I-70 was done first?

edwaleni

Quote from: Lyon Wonder on September 04, 2017, 04:12:10 PM
A viaduct over US 40 east of Martinsville has enough room to add 2 additional lanes for US 40.
My guess is this viaduct was built in the 1950s when Illinois originally intended to convert US 40 into a 4 lane expressway from the St Louis area to the Indiana state line.  Of course turning US 40 into an expressway fell by the wayside with the Interstate highway act in 1956 and funding to build I-70.
https://goo.gl/maps/8739NYv1TvJ2

Excellent example.  I remember being on US40 before and during the construction of I-70.  My dad used to rue going east as it took IDOT forever to get the road finished east of Montrose.

Here is the EJ&E bridge over US12 and it is of identical design and construction, but uses but sides.



According to bridge records, they were built in 1941.

edwaleni

Quote from: ilpt4u on September 04, 2017, 04:39:20 PM
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on September 04, 2017, 04:12:10 PM
A viaduct over US 40 east of Martinsville has enough room to add 2 additional lanes for US 40.
My guess is this viaduct was built in the 1950s when Illinois originally intended to convert US 40 into a 4 lane expressway from the St Louis area to the Indiana state line.  Of course turning US 40 into an expressway fell by the wayside with the Interstate highway act in 1956 and funding to build I-70.
https://goo.gl/maps/8739NYv1TvJ2
Kinda a silly question, but why did IDOT (or its predecessor) build a new alignment I-70 instead up upgrading existing US 40, whereas I-55 was (mostly) an upgrade to existing US 66?

Is it because I-70 was done first?

Before the Interstate Highway Act, IDOT had spent millions between 1926 and 1956 updating portions of US-66 to meet the growing traffic demand.  So in many cases on I-55, they could defer much of the work as many bypasses of small town centers had already been completed.

I have driven I-55 so much between STL and CHI that I could probably do it in my sleep now.

I remember the different sections being done and then in odd places getting hit with a stoplight now and then.

The original Pontiac Bypass built in 1929 was the last road to be "blessed" by an original Illini tribesman still alive. He came out sang a chant in his native tongue and in native clothing.  Today, anything like that would be banned! Ask anyone what an Illini was and no one knows.

edwaleni

This was the original planned route of the West Suburban Expressway by IDOT.

It was to start near the terminus of the Eisenhower/Tri-State/ Roosevelt Road (IL-38) ramps.  (IL-38 used to be ALT US30)

It roughly followed what became IL-56 and IDOT built some parts in prep of what would become a freeway.



It was to bridge the Fox River just north of North Aurora, which in late 1940's didn't go farther than the CB&Q branch line at the time. That former ROW is now Oak Street in North Aurora.

West of the CB&Q branch line it was going turn SW towards where the current I-88/IL-56 ramps go down to US30.

I have no idea what it was going to be signed if it got built. Since it essentially aligned traffic east-west out of metro Chicago, I always assumed it was going to be the "new" US30. But that got pushed away as a south suburban Chicago bypass via Joliet instead.

edwaleni

Quote from: brad on September 03, 2017, 07:37:46 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on September 02, 2017, 09:12:11 PM
One of the remnants of the planned West Suburban Expressway planned by IDOT.

This is IL-56 just west of IL-59.



Is the intersection of Butterfield and Highland also a remnant? It's so strange to see an overpass there. I vaguely recall when Butterfield Road went up the off ramps instead of going under Highland Ave.

Butterfield and Highland was a fully signalled intersection that met at grade.  Believe it or not, before the Yorktown Mall was built, it was a 4 way stop!

The Highland Overpass was built due to local congestion causing backups on the nearby tollway.  So Butterfiled was lowered and Highland raised a little in the early 90's to give you what you have today.

Speaking of intersections that used to be 4 way stops.....IL-59 and New York Avenue (former US-33) was a 4 way stop right up to when the Fox Valley Mall opened in 1976.  It was about a year later before they finally installed a full signal set.

Today, locals can't imagine that being any other way.

I met an old farmer once who owned land along IL-59 south of the Fox Valley Mall between then Naperville and Aurora.  He said he remembers IDOT surveyors coming out and marking the land just after WW2 and 2 months later came to him with a ROW purchase agreement.  IDOT told him it was for a future expressway. That was in 1947!  He is long gone now and no expressway was built, but IL-59 is definitely a busy route between Plainfield and Aurora.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: edwaleni on September 04, 2017, 05:28:00 PM
Quote from: brad on September 03, 2017, 07:37:46 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on September 02, 2017, 09:12:11 PM
One of the remnants of the planned West Suburban Expressway planned by IDOT.

This is IL-56 just west of IL-59.



Is the intersection of Butterfield and Highland also a remnant? It's so strange to see an overpass there. I vaguely recall when Butterfield Road went up the off ramps instead of going under Highland Ave.

Butterfield and Highland was a fully signalled intersection that met at grade.  Believe it or not, before the Yorktown Mall was built, it was a 4 way stop!

The Highland Overpass was built due to local congestion causing backups on the nearby tollway.  So Butterfiled was lowered and Highland raised a little in the early 90's to give you what you have today.

Speaking of intersections that used to be 4 way stops.....IL-59 and New York Avenue (former US-33) was a 4 way stop right up to when the Fox Valley Mall opened in 1976.  It was about a year later before they finally installed a full signal set.

Today, locals can't imagine that being any other way.


US-33 was never in Illinois.  Do you mean something else?

ilpt4u

US 30 was along New York St (And Galena Blvd, as One Way pairs), but not as far East as IL 59, I didn't think. I was under the impression US 30 came up from the Joliet area via Hill Ave to reach New York St/Galena Blvd to downtown Aurora (there were a few US 30 signs still on Hill Ave, but I think they are gone now).

Unless US 30 continued along New York St, then Aurora Ave to reach Downtown Naperville, but I don't think that was its route. I guess it may have turned South along IL 59 at one point, as well.

edwaleni

Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 04, 2017, 05:40:09 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on September 04, 2017, 05:28:00 PM
Quote from: brad on September 03, 2017, 07:37:46 PM
Quote from: edwaleni on September 02, 2017, 09:12:11 PM
One of the remnants of the planned West Suburban Expressway planned by IDOT.

This is IL-56 just west of IL-59.



Is the intersection of Butterfield and Highland also a remnant? It's so strange to see an overpass there. I vaguely recall when Butterfield Road went up the off ramps instead of going under Highland Ave.

Butterfield and Highland was a fully signalled intersection that met at grade.  Believe it or not, before the Yorktown Mall was built, it was a 4 way stop!

The Highland Overpass was built due to local congestion causing backups on the nearby tollway.  So Butterfiled was lowered and Highland raised a little in the early 90's to give you what you have today.

Speaking of intersections that used to be 4 way stops.....IL-59 and New York Avenue (former US-33) was a 4 way stop right up to when the Fox Valley Mall opened in 1976.  It was about a year later before they finally installed a full signal set.

Today, locals can't imagine that being any other way.


US-33 was never in Illinois.  Do you mean something else?

My error.

It wasn't US-33, it was IL-65.

1948



1962




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