New Jersey Turnpike

[Steve D]

White on brown is also used for "Six Flags" on a sign approaching Exit 7A.

That makes more sense, as I believe the white on brown is intended for recreational and cultural centers etc. Hence why it's confusing for it to be used for EWR.

It is also used at exit 14B for Liberty State Park.  So it has more to do with "important places" (vs. a control city)  than any legacy signage colors used at Newark Airport.

Also used in many other places:  PNC Bank Arts Center on GSP; Wolf Trap for Performing Arts on Dulles Toll Road in VA....(these do seem to be all cultural)

[storm2k]

Brown is for "Recreational and Cultural Interest" guide signs, which generally includes parks and historical attractions, but easily can stretch into cultural places like PNC even though those signs should likely be white on green. The old ones were white on blue, but got replaced with the current ones and the exit lost its exit number.

[famartin]

Why is Newark Airport in white on brown?

Not entirely sure, but NJDOT has been doing that on its roads for a while now. I guess the NJTA decided to match them.

EWR has always done white on brown for approach signing, with the special airport logo. NJTA ditched the logo, and maybe NJDOT will too someday. Most airports do not use any special background color, so it probably should be white on green (and you'll find a few signs like that off-airport).

Didn't the old signs for 13A used to be all green?

Yes, and NJTA has never used the logo.

The Turnpike hasn't, but it is on parkway signage.

[roadman65]

The original NB Exit 142 guides used to sign the airport in white on blue.  In fact the GSP was the only agency that recognized EWR as an international airport as NJDOT and NJTA would always leave out the International word.

Though, that is quite common as FDOT does with Tampa International and just signs Tampa Airport instead.  And other cities I have seen do it as well.  NYC does with JFK on the Van Wyck and the Belt Parkway.

[bluecountry]

Why isn't there an exit 17?

[Mr. Matté]

There is

[bluecountry]

Right, on both the E and W spurs?

[bluecountry]

I still contend, making the NJTP 6 lanes from exit 4 to the DEMB is a mistake.
It would be better to:

-Be 8 lanes from exit 6 to exit 4
-6 lanes from exit 4 to 3
-4 lanes from 3 onward

That would be a better investment.

[jeffandnicole]

I still contend, making the NJTP 6 lanes from exit 4 to the DEMB is a mistake.
It would be better to:

-Be 8 lanes from exit 6 to exit 4
-6 lanes from exit 4 to 3
-4 lanes from 3 onward

That would be a better investment.

You don't say. 

Maybe you should've stood over the Turnpike between 2 & 3 yesterday around lunchtime and watched traffic creep along around 35 - 45 mph and tell us that there's no reason to widen the Turnpike there.

[Alps]

Downside of my job: I could tell all of you exactly what is needed and why, but I'm not allowed
(slightly less vaguery: I have access to Turnpike volumes and need them for what I do. NJDOT volumes are all published on their "TMS2Go" site. put them together and you can figure out all of NJ. but since you don't see Turnpike volumes, you can't see what I see in terms of congestion hot spots now and in the future.)

[vdeane]

bluecontry should be cursed to drive that road on Friday afternoons for all eternity.  Last I was driving down, it was stop and go much of the way.

[Rothman]

bluecontry should be cursed to drive that road on Friday afternoons for all eternity.  Last I was driving down, it was stop and go much of the way.

...or Wednesdays before Thanksgiving.

[lstone19]

Why isn't there an exit 17?

There is

Right, on both the E and W spurs?

Some understanding of the history of the Turnpike will help you understand why 17 only exists as a half-interchange on the eastern route. As built (which was what is now the eastern route), 16 was a half-interchange (to/from the south just like 16E is today) to the Lincoln Tunnel, 17 was a full interchange at NJ 3, and 18 was US 46. Within a few years, 16 and 17 were reconfigured into what is there today with 17 becoming a half-interchange to/from the north. That was accompanied by the toll booth reconfiguration that created the double-wide 16/18 toll booth just where it is today (now 16E/18E). Despite the 18 toll plaza being just before Exit 16, Exit 18 was still US 46.

When the western route was built, it made sense that the northern most toll plaza (in a conventional arrangement unlike 16E/18E) also carry the number 18 (18W since it was on the western route) as Exit 18 (no need for E or W) was still US 46. So it avoided confusion to have 18 on either route be the toll plaza that got you to US 46 since it was referred to as Exit 18 (I grew up in NJ in the late 60s), particularly before I-95 was completed between US 46 and I-80.

But, since the interchange on the western route at NJ 3 was a conventional interchange, one less exit number was needed. So they went with 16W for it and skipped 17W. And that's why there's no 17 on the western route.

Unfortunately, the NJTA muddled things by making the Meadowlands exit on the western route 19W (IMHO, it should be 17W). The argument for 19W is that heading south, it comes before the 18W plaza. But over on the eastern route, head south from US 46 and you have exit 17 (IMHO, it should be 17E to be consistent with the eastern route exits) followed by the 18E plaza. Further confused by both 15E and 15W being accessible from both routes to/from the north as well as added interchange 15X.

Oh well, most of it has been that way for about 50 years. It is what it is.

[sprjus4]

I still contend, making the NJTP 6 lanes from exit 4 to the DEMB is a mistake.
It would be better to:

-Be 8 lanes from exit 6 to exit 4
-6 lanes from exit 4 to 3
-4 lanes from 3 onward

That would be a better investment.

You don't say. 

Maybe you should've stood over the Turnpike between 2 & 3 yesterday around lunchtime and watched traffic creep along around 35 - 45 mph and tell us that there's no reason to widen the Turnpike there.

Well obviously, his experience of driving the highway during off peak times only and never personally getting caught in congestion dictates it's adequate at only 4 lanes.

Taking peak travel, rush hour, traffic volumes, etc. travel into account? That's pointless!

[sprjus4]

Downside of my job: I could tell all of you exactly what is needed and why, but I'm not allowed
(slightly less vaguery: I have access to Turnpike volumes and need them for what I do. NJDOT volumes are all published on their "TMS2Go" site. put them together and you can figure out all of NJ. but since you don't see Turnpike volumes, you can't see what I see in terms of congestion hot spots now and in the future.)

To quote a post of mine from back in 2020 with relatively up-to-date volumes (from 2017). There is a definite need for widening here.

https://www.njta.com/media/4280/os-2019a.pdf

PDF Page 231

2017 Traffic Volumes

Exits 1 to 2 - 48,800 - 12.4% truck
Exits 2 to 3 - 53,400 - 12.4% truck
Exits 3 to 4 - 63,300 - 12.3% truck

Warrants 6-lanes, especially when you consider peak travel period volumes that could easily bring these numbers to 70,000 or greater.

Actually, the report indicates between Exits 1 and 2, July volumes were 21% higher than the average month, meaning Exits 1 and 2 see up to 59,048 AADT during peak season, and this doesn't even factor weekends alone will see even more traffic than during the week. Using this 21% figure on the other exits too, assuming it's similar...

July Traffic Volumes 2017 (AADT x 1.21) -

Exits 1 to 2 - 59,048
Exits 2 to 3 - 64,614
Exits 3 to 4 - 76,593

Most certainly warrants 6-lanes throughout.

As for the rest of the Turnpike south of Exit 9...

Exits 4 to 5 - 84,000 - 12.3% truck
Exits 5 to 6 (I-95) - 89,900 - 12.2% truck

Should eventually be expanded to 8-lanes, especially as volumes will continue to rise.

Exits 6 (I-95) to 7 - 119,000 - 13.1% truck
Exits 7 to 7A - 132,300 - 14.1% truck
Exits 7A to 8 - 150,200 - 15.1% truck
Exits 8 to 8A - 155,600 - 14.7% truck
Exits 8A to 9 - 175,700 - 14.4% truck

The recent 12-lane expansion should be able to handle traffic volumes south of Exit 9 for years, if not decades, to come.

[storm2k]

Why isn't there an exit 17?

There is

Right, on both the E and W spurs?

Some understanding of the history of the Turnpike will help you understand why 17 only exists as a half-interchange on the eastern route. As built (which was what is now the eastern route), 16 was a half-interchange (to/from the south just like 16E is today) to the Lincoln Tunnel, 17 was a full interchange at NJ 3, and 18 was US 46. Within a few years, 16 and 17 were reconfigured into what is there today with 17 becoming a half-interchange to/from the north. That was accompanied to the toll booth reconfigured that created the double-wide 16/18 toll booth just where it is today (now 16E/18E). Despite the 18 toll plaza being just before Exit 16, Exit 18 was still US 46.

When the western route was built, it made sense that the northern most toll plaza (in a conventional arrangement unlike 16E/18E), it made sense that it also carry the number 18 (18W since it was on the western route) as Exit 18 (no need for E or W) was still US 46. So it avoided confusion to have 18 on either route be the toll plaza that got you to US 46 since it was referred to as Exit 18 (I grew up in NJ in the late 60s), particularly before I-95 was completed between US 46 and I-80.

But, since the interchange on the western route at NJ 3 was a conventional interchange, one less exit number was needed. So they went with 16W for it and skipped 17W. And that's why there's no 17 on the western route.

Unfortunately, the NJTA muddled things by making the Meadowlands exit on the western route 19W (IMHO, it should be 17W). The argument for 19W is that heading south, it comes before the 18W plaza. But over on the eastern route, head south from US 46 and you have exit 17 (IMHO, it should be 17E to be consistent with the eastern route exits) followed by the 18E plaza. Further confused by both 15E and 15W being accessible from both routes to/from the north as well as added interchange 15X.

Oh well, most of it has been that way for about 50 years. It is what it is.

19W was the right call. It would have behooved the Turnpike Authority to either renumber the old Exit 17 to either be 19E or just no number since it's before the 16E/18E toll plaza, but they didn't and just left one of those weird quirks of original Turnpike exit design in place to confuse drivers. As I'm sure many were over the years why there was the toll plaza for 16E and 18E going north, but never an Exit 17. Honestly, when I stop to think about it, I don't know why they didn't just make it 16E and call it a day northbound and just have no more Exit 18. But who knows why they sometimes think the way they do.

[lstone19]

19W was the right call. It would have behooved the Turnpike Authority to either renumber the old Exit 17 to either be 19E or just no number since it's before the 16E/18E toll plaza, but they didn't and just left one of those weird quirks of original Turnpike exit design in place to confuse drivers. As I'm sure many were over the years why there was the toll plaza for 16E and 18E going north, but never an Exit 17. Honestly, when I stop to think about it, I don't know why they didn't just make it 16E and call it a day northbound and just have no more Exit 18. But who knows why they sometimes think the way they do.

We'll just have to disagree about this. Your view is toll plazas should be numbered by where they physically are. My view is toll plaza should be numbered for the exit it serves. Not that there is any consistency between roads. And in most cases, it makes no substantial difference but it does in this case due to the half-interchanges on both the eastern and western routes between the terminal toll plaza and the end of the road.

As for confusion from no Exit 17 northbound, I very much doubt the average driver is confused. Since mileage based numbering is predominant, missing numbers is normal. It would take a driver to realize the Turnpike is sequentially numbered and then that there is a missing number and you give the average driver way too much credit when you think they notice such details. Plus most of the traffic is every day traffic who knows the road and doesn't pay all that much attention to exit numbers or what exactly the signs say (example: when you drive locally, do you actively look at every sign to find your exit or turn every time or do you just know where it is with no need to actually look at signs?).

[kernals12]

So when are they planning to start the widening? Also, I feel like this project is getting a lot less attention than it should. The NJTP is arguably the most critical chokepoint for commerce in the United States and expanding it should have far reaching impacts.

[NJRoadfan]

I've gotten stuck in the backup at Exit 4 a few times, its really annoying and reduces the utility of using the NJTP as an express bypass of I-295. It just goes to show that the 6-9 widening really did uncork a pretty big bottleneck in the system. Now its moving the choke points further south and west. Has the PA Turnpike had similar increases in traffic congestion westbound from NJ?

Of course once Exits 1-4 is widened, it only going to put more pressure on the mess at the Christina Marsh interchange in Delaware.

[jeffandnicole]

So when are they planning to start the widening?

Page 3 of this: https://www.njta.com/media/5833/2021-03-03-2021-capital-improvement-program-updated-with-highlighted-note.pdf indicates $80 million is being spent this year and $125 million spent next year, and roughly $680 million in 2024-2025.

Doing an ultra-quick read of recent Meeting Minutes, in https://www.njta.com/media/5848/final-agenda-bm-03-23-2021.pdf on Pages 5 - 6 they were to award a bid for "program management, preparation of preliminary design documents and comprehensive environmental services".

Elsewhere on the website, they also expect to be putting out to bid design contracts for each of the 3 sections of widening:  From Interchanges 1 to 2, 2 to 3 and 3 to 4.  These are expected to be probably way more costly than anyone here expects.  You'll find them in: https://www.njta.com/media/5718/rpt-ops-anticipated-advertisements.pdf

Based on this, the 2024/2025 years are when these widening projects would actually start to see shovels in the ground.

As for attention...

To be brutally honest, the newspapers in the state have consolidated, so South Jersey has lost a lot of their traditional news media.  3 papers in the south combined into 1, and are part of the state-wide nj.com, which heavily focuses their attention on North Jersey.  A recent series of articles boasted the best thing about each town in the state.  When they got to the southern NJ towns, they often made comparisons to similar things in North Jersey, which most Southern New Jersey people wouldn't give a damn about.  The writer is a North Jersey guy...they couldn't even give the story to a Southern NJ reporter!

There's also something to be said that, of all the widening and road projects in the state, this one is actually non-controversial.  It's rare when an environmental organization like the NJ Chapter of the Sierra Club all but gives this project their blessing. 

So, the likelihood of nj.com giving much attention to a southern NJ Turnpike widening will be very diluted.  For the other newspapers in the area, the Courier Post loves to run on controversy, and the overall lack of it for this project takes the wind of their sails.  The Philadelphia Inquirer used to heavily cover the 3 counties on the Jersey side of the river, but has curtailed a lot of their press as well.

And the NJTA, to their credit, knows how to push thru projects they want done.  They're not going to issue press releases to give people the opportunity to get riled up. They'll have the mandated public information sessions, and as shown in the minutes and on the website the project is public.  They do what they need to do, and nothing more.

[kernals12]

So when are they planning to start the widening?

Page 3 of this: https://www.njta.com/media/5833/2021-03-03-2021-capital-improvement-program-updated-with-highlighted-note.pdf indicates $80 million is being spent this year and $125 million spent next year, and roughly $680 million in 2024-2025.

Doing an ultra-quick read of recent Meeting Minutes, in https://www.njta.com/media/5848/final-agenda-bm-03-23-2021.pdf on Pages 5 - 6 they were to award a bid for "program management, preparation of preliminary design documents and comprehensive environmental services".

Elsewhere on the website, they also expect to be putting out to bid design contracts for each of the 3 sections of widening:  From Interchanges 1 to 2, 2 to 3 and 3 to 4.  These are expected to be probably way more costly than anyone here expects.  You'll find them in: https://www.njta.com/media/5718/rpt-ops-anticipated-advertisements.pdf

Based on this, the 2024/2025 years are when these widening projects would actually start to see shovels in the ground.

As for attention...

To be brutally honest, the newspapers in the state have consolidated, so South Jersey has lost a lot of their traditional news media.  3 papers in the south combined into 1, and are part of the state-wide nj.com, which heavily focuses their attention on North Jersey.  A recent series of articles boasted the best thing about each town in the state.  When they got to the southern NJ towns, they often made comparisons to similar things in North Jersey, which most Southern New Jersey people wouldn't give a damn about.  The writer is a North Jersey guy...they couldn't even give the story to a Southern NJ reporter!

There's also something to be said that, of all the widening and road projects in the state, this one is actually non-controversial.  It's rare when an environmental organization like the NJ Chapter of the Sierra Club all but gives this project their blessing. 

So, the likelihood of nj.com giving much attention to a southern NJ Turnpike widening will be very diluted.  For the other newspapers in the area, the Courier Post loves to run on controversy, and the overall lack of it for this project takes the wind of their sails.  The Philadelphia Inquirer used to heavily cover the 3 counties on the Jersey side of the river, but has curtailed a lot of their press as well.

And the NJTA, to their credit, knows how to push thru projects they want done.  They're not going to issue press releases to give people the opportunity to get riled up. They'll have the mandated public information sessions, and as shown in the minutes and on the website the project is public.  They do what they need to do, and nothing more.

Actually, I was referring to the whole capital project plan that will widen parts of the Turnpike and Parkway even in built up urban areas in Northern New Jersey

[02 Park Ave]

This Turnpike widening will be a disaster for South Jersey.

I say this because of the number of bridges over the Turnpike which will have to be replaced.  Here in Cherry Hill we are currently enduring what to expect.

The bridge on Kresson Road over the Turnpike is being replaced.  It is a disaster.  Traffic is backed up on Kresson Road in both directions all day long.  Additionally, Google Maps frequently shows the Turnpike itself to be slowed down by this work, sometimes with it even being the cause of the back-up at Exit 4..  Now can you imagine what it will be like when every road which crosses over the Turnpike for 35 miles here is like this?

What will Route 70 be like?  Then there is the North-South Freeway.  "Direct Connections" probably will not be finished when this widening starts.  What a mess that will be.

And to think that the Turnpike raised its tolls 36% so that they could inflict this upon us.

[kernals12]

This Turnpike widening will be a disaster for South Jersey.

I say this because of the number of bridges over the Turnpike which will have to be replaced.  Here in Cherry Hill we are currently enduring what to expect.

The bridge on Kresson Road over the Turnpike is being replaced.  It is a disaster.  Traffic is backed up on Kresson Road in both directions all day long.  Additionally, Google Maps frequently shows the Turnpike itself to be slowed down by this work, sometimes with it even being the cause of the back-up at Exit 4..  Now can you imagine what it will be like when every road which crosses over the Turnpike for 35 miles here is like this?

What will Route 70 be like?  Then there is the North-South Freeway.  "Direct Connections" probably will not be finished when this widening starts.  What a mess that will be.

And to think that the Turnpike raised its tolls 36% so that they could inflict this upon us.

That toll increase is paying for a lot more than just widening in South Jersey

[sprjus4]

This Turnpike widening will be a disaster for South Jersey.

I say this because of the number of bridges over the Turnpike which will have to be replaced.  Here in Cherry Hill we are currently enduring what to expect.

The bridge on Kresson Road over the Turnpike is being replaced.  It is a disaster.  Traffic is backed up on Kresson Road in both directions all day long.  Additionally, Google Maps frequently shows the Turnpike itself to be slowed down by this work, sometimes with it even being the cause of the back-up at Exit 4..  Now can you imagine what it will be like when every road which crosses over the Turnpike for 35 miles here is like this?

What will Route 70 be like?  Then there is the North-South Freeway.  "Direct Connections" probably will not be finished when this widening starts.  What a mess that will be.

And to think that the Turnpike raised its tolls 36% so that they could inflict this upon us.

It's a short term headache for a long term worth of drastically improved conditions along the Turnpike mainline, the biggest benefits of which will be released during peak travel periods and weekends.

[SignBridge]

I'm a little surprised that the Turnpike needs widening south of Exit 4 given that you have the closely parallel 6-lane I-295. You'd think between those two roads, there would be enough capacity. Or is the problem that too many Turnpike drivers are not even aware of I-295's existence and aren't wise enough to take the alternate route.

I myself have switched over from one to the other many times at Exit 4 though I haven't driven that far south in several years now.