I'm wondering if there are any small to mid-sized cities that are poised to become big metro areas (having over 1 mil people) in the future, that will grow quickly over the coming decades. The Las Vegas area is a very recent example I can think of, seeing massive growth over the past 50 years and more than doubling its size since 1990. I wouldn't really count suburbs of an already major city, unless it becomes a major metro area in its own right.
Austin, TX was discussed at one point though to become the newest major city given that I heard of that area getting former California Residents at one point.
The Fresno Metro Area was around 973,000 the last time I looked. Certainly wouldn't have thought that moving here, certainly doesn't feel that way now. Apparently the population in the City of Fresno has jumped from 217,000 in 1980 to about 500,000 today.
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 07, 2018, 10:27:52 PM
I'm wondering if there are any small to mid-sized cities that are poised to become big metro areas (having over 1 mil people) in the future, that will grow quickly over the coming decades. The Las Vegas area is a very recent example I can think of, seeing massive growth over the past 50 years and more than doubling its size since 1990. I wouldn't really count suburbs of an already major city, unless it becomes a major metro area in its own right.
A million for a metro area is kind of a low bar. Little Rock's metro is a little under 700,000, for instance.
Quote from: bing101 on August 07, 2018, 11:27:14 PM
Austin, TX was discussed at one point though to become the newest major city given that I heard of that area getting former California Residents at one point.
Yes, way too many of them. Figured Austin was already major though. I say Salt Lake City.
Salt Lake's MSA already has over a million people while the city has under 200,000.
Salt Lake proper has become quite a hollow city, only being saved by a whole lot of investment in the downtown by the LDS Church. Just six blocks out of downtown (6th South) and it isn't pretty.
Well Orlando already has proven itself, but development still continues outside Orlando and makes all of Orange, Seminole, Osceola, and parts of Lake and Polk Counties a defacto part of the city.
Quote from: Road Hog on August 07, 2018, 11:38:55 PM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 07, 2018, 10:27:52 PM
I'm wondering if there are any small to mid-sized cities that are poised to become big metro areas (having over 1 mil people) in the future, that will grow quickly over the coming decades. The Las Vegas area is a very recent example I can think of, seeing massive growth over the past 50 years and more than doubling its size since 1990. I wouldn't really count suburbs of an already major city, unless it becomes a major metro area in its own right.
A million for a metro area is kind of a low bar. Little Rock's metro is a little under 700,000, for instance.
That's a pretty extensive definition of a metro area. I was thinking more like a contiguous urban area, not really including rural counties that happen to have an economic connection with the core city. The Little Rock metro only has an urban population of about 431,000, and the core city itself has only just under 200,000 people.
Quote from: texaskdog on August 07, 2018, 11:49:36 PM
Quote from: bing101 on August 07, 2018, 11:27:14 PM
Austin, TX was discussed at one point though to become the newest major city given that I heard of that area getting former California Residents at one point.
Yes, way too many of them. Figured Austin was already major though. I say Salt Lake City.
I figured that lots of Californians have moved there already. I bet lots of cities hate the influx of Californians moving to their area. Pretty much all the major cities in Texas and the western U.S. sound like big culprits.
Quote from: Rothman on August 08, 2018, 12:09:54 AM
Salt Lake's MSA already has over a million people while the city has under 200,000.
Salt Lake proper has become quite a hollow city, only being saved by a whole lot of investment in the downtown by the LDS Church. Just six blocks out of downtown (6th South) and it isn't pretty.
You know I bet SLC is becoming a big hub for lots of companies and people to move to!
Charlotte, NC is already major by population figures, but people don't treat it as if it was one; it gets talked about in general conversation a lot less than other major cities.
Quote from: 1 on August 08, 2018, 05:09:53 AM
Charlotte, NC is already major by population figures, but people don't treat it as if it was one; it gets talked about in general conversation a lot less than other major cities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Triangle
Well what about Research Triangle its been in conversations about North Carolina as a major metro area and yes that states version of Silicon Valley.
Quote from: bing101 on August 08, 2018, 05:47:45 AM
Quote from: 1 on August 08, 2018, 05:09:53 AM
Charlotte, NC is already major by population figures, but people don't treat it as if it was one; it gets talked about in general conversation a lot less than other major cities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Triangle
Well what about Research Triangle its been in conversations about North Carolina as a major metro area and yes that states version of Silicon Valley.
Raleigh is on the list of contenders for Amazon HQ2 and Apple. But I highly doubt they'll get either one due to the dumpster fire known as the General Assembly, which is up for grabs in November.
St George, Utah could be a contender. They have grown tremendously in the past 15 years, though I would have to wait and see if the growth continues to the point of being a major city.
Here is a list of MSA's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_statistical_areas
If we define a major city as a 1 million+ MSA, and look at MSAs that have a 2017 population of over 700,000 and are growing fast, you'll end up with;
* Cape Coral-Fort Myers
* Provo-Orem
* Charleston
* Boise
* North Port-Sarasota-Bradenton
St. George, Utah is the smallest fast-growing MSA. But it's really far off from becoming a major metropolitan area.
Quote from: 1 on August 08, 2018, 05:09:53 AM
Charlotte, NC is already major by population figures, but people don't treat it as if it was one; it gets talked about in general conversation a lot less than other major cities.
Same with San Antonio (which is the 24th largest metro - Charlotte is 22nd). All the annexing that happens causes the city proper have a massive population, while separate suburbs are basically nonexistent.
Isn't a lot of the "growth" in these cities simply the result of the city expanding geographically through the annexation of unincorporated suburbs? That definitely seems to be a sunbelt thing, as I don't know of any annexations in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on August 08, 2018, 02:06:08 PM
Isn't a lot of the "growth" in these cities simply the result of the city expanding geographically through the annexation of unincorporated suburbs? That definitely seems to be a sunbelt thing, as I don't know of any annexations in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic.
It must be a Sunbelt thing. In the Midwest, you either get new suburbs (as in Wisconsin towns or Michigan charter townships), or the annexation of unincorporated land with nothing built on it yet (as is the case in Illinois). Annexing unincorporated, but built-up areas is pretty much unknown. They tend to stay unincorporated.
Merced,CA has to be in the running for newest Major City according to the OP's statement. Before Merced was mainly an ag town but now its transforming into a college town due to UC Merced. Note the growth phase is still in the process though. Also High Speed Rail in California is in talks at this time heading to Merced at the time of Post.
Quote from: bing101 on August 08, 2018, 06:11:39 PM
Merced,CA has to be in the running for newest Major City according to the OP's statement. Before Merced was mainly an ag town but now its transforming into a college town due to UC Merced. Note the growth phase is still in the process though. Also High Speed Rail in California is in talks at this time heading to Merced at the time of Post.
Merced County is actually experiencing its slowest growth ever right now. Growth since 2010 has been 6.6%, so it might perhaps reach 10% by 2020. The decade with the next-slowest growth was 1910-1920 when it was 14%. Put another way, the county had been adding 30,000 to 45,000 per decade between 1970 and 2010, and has only added 17,000 between 2010 and 2017.
But beyond that, based on the OP, Merced County would have to nearly quadruple its population to get to one million, so I don't think it's anywhere in the conversation right now.
Quote from: webny99 on August 08, 2018, 01:32:46 PM
Quote from: 1 on August 08, 2018, 05:09:53 AM
Charlotte, NC is already major by population figures, but people don't treat it as if it was one; it gets talked about in general conversation a lot less than other major cities.
Same with San Antonio (which is the 24th largest metro - Charlotte is 22nd). All the annexing that happens causes the city proper have a massive population, while separate suburbs are basically nonexistent.
This depends on your definition of/criteria for a "major city" - and that discussion is a whole 'nother can of worms. That said, while I wouldn't include either city in a top 10 major U.S. city list, they both would certainly make a top 25 or 30 list, which I would still consider "major" - and I feel like I hear them both in the national conversation in proportion to this "ranking."
Quote from: Chris on August 08, 2018, 08:51:49 AM
Here is a list of MSA's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_statistical_areas
* Cape Coral-Fort Myers
* Provo-Orem
* Charleston
* Boise
* North Port-Sarasota-Bradenton
Boise and Charleston were two that popped into my mind before I started reading through the thread. Provo is too close to SLC's orbit to be a major city yet, and the two Florida MSAs currently lack any regional-level CBD and/or economic drivers that could develop them into a national-level city.
Charlotte has an Atlanta inferiority complex.
Quote from: Brandon on August 08, 2018, 02:34:38 PM
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on August 08, 2018, 02:06:08 PM
Isn't a lot of the "growth" in these cities simply the result of the city expanding geographically through the annexation of unincorporated suburbs? That definitely seems to be a sunbelt thing, as I don't know of any annexations in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic.
It must be a Sunbelt thing. In the Midwest, you either get new suburbs (as in Wisconsin towns or Michigan charter townships), or the annexation of unincorporated land with nothing built on it yet (as is the case in Illinois). Annexing unincorporated, but built-up areas is pretty much unknown. They tend to stay unincorporated.
The City of Madison, WI has boundary agreements in place that could conceivably double its population over the next few decades, but yes, in Wisconsin it is very much an exception. Most of the state's metros have been experiencing pretty nasty township problems over the past few decades, the Appleton and Green Bay areas included (IMHO, the Appleton area is the state's 'poster child' for the need for top-to-bottom comprehensive local government reform).
Aside from Madison, among the state's larger cities to date only the Janesville and Oshkosh areas have largely escaped those problems. Eau Claire to a lesser extent. Superior, too, but it is smaller and not really a growth area.
Mike
Quote from: hbelkins on August 08, 2018, 10:06:03 PM
Charlotte has an Atlanta inferiority complex.
Even though now significantly larger, I don't think Charlotte has gotten over its Richmond inferiority complex.
Quote from: mgk920 on August 08, 2018, 10:28:33 PM
Quote from: Brandon on August 08, 2018, 02:34:38 PM
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on August 08, 2018, 02:06:08 PM
Isn't a lot of the "growth" in these cities simply the result of the city expanding geographically through the annexation of unincorporated suburbs? That definitely seems to be a sunbelt thing, as I don't know of any annexations in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic.
It must be a Sunbelt thing. In the Midwest, you either get new suburbs (as in Wisconsin towns or Michigan charter townships), or the annexation of unincorporated land with nothing built on it yet (as is the case in Illinois). Annexing unincorporated, but built-up areas is pretty much unknown. They tend to stay unincorporated.
The City of Madison, WI has boundary agreements in place that could conceivably double its population over the next few decades, but yes, in Wisconsin it is very much an exception. Most of the state's metros have been experiencing pretty nasty township problems over the past few decades, the Appleton and Green Bay areas included (IMHO, the Appleton area is the state's 'poster child' for the need for top-to-bottom comprehensive local government reform).
Aside from Madison, among the state's larger cities to date only the Janesville and Oshkosh areas have largely escaped those problems. Eau Claire to a lesser extent. Superior, too, but it is smaller and not really a growth area.
Mike
Tell me more about this, it really interests me :D
Quote from: hbelkins on August 08, 2018, 10:06:03 PM
Charlotte has an Atlanta inferiority complex.
Buffalo and Syracuse have Rochester inferiority complexes too, but I think these should probably be their own thread. :D
Quote from: hbelkins on August 08, 2018, 10:06:03 PM
Charlotte has an Atlanta inferiority complex.
The difference between Charlotte and Atlanta is that Charlotte is a big city in the South and Atlanta is a big city surrounded by the South.
As to the OP question, it does to a great degree depend on definitions. City or a city and its suburbs; so on.
As to cities that are going to get larger in the next generation, Las Vegas, SLC, several other places in the Mountain West, southwest Florida (I-75 south of Tampa Bay), north central Florida (north of Orlando but just not close enough to be considered Orlando).
Quote from: SP Cook on August 09, 2018, 12:00:48 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 08, 2018, 10:06:03 PM
Charlotte has an Atlanta inferiority complex.
The difference between Charlotte and Atlanta is that Charlotte is a big city in the South and Atlanta is a big city surrounded by the South.
Massive population size difference, Charlotte MSA is 2.4 million and Atlanta MSA is 6.2 million. Atlanta had a massive urban freeway system and circumferential and regional freeway from the 1970s, which has been greatly widened, and they have a regional heavy rail metro system.
6.2 million MSA is in the range of Washington, D.C. MSA.
Quote from: 1 on August 08, 2018, 05:09:53 AM
Charlotte, NC is already major by population figures, but people don't treat it as if it was one; it gets talked about in general conversation a lot less than other major cities.
I think we'll get there (being talked about) one of these days. We were pretty minor as cities go for most of our existence, being mostly more of a regional, not-as-important hub, then we started expanding in nearly every area out of nowhere. I was reading an article the other day that likened Charlotte to an "awkward teenager" growing up to position itself among the "adult" cities between it like Atlanta and Washington.
Austin and San Antonio are growing toward each other and in another 30 years will be essentially one giant conurbation.
Sports talk split to https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23455.0
Quote from: hbelkins on August 08, 2018, 10:06:03 PM
Charlotte has an Atlanta inferiority complex.
FTFY. You should check out the "North Carolina development thread" on City-Data forum, which has basically become a Charlotte circlejerk. The majority of the posts are about Charlotte and usually when someone posts something that's happening elsewhere in the state, Charlotte's fan club comes out in force and basically says "hey, we got one too and here's why it's bigger & better and everyone should know about it!" . :banghead:
Here's a prime example. I posted NCDOT's announcement regarding the future CSX intermodal terminal in Rocky Mount in that thread. Read the first post that comes after mine:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/north-carolina/2827489-north-carolina-development-thread-89.html#post52334451 (http://www.city-data.com/forum/north-carolina/2827489-north-carolina-development-thread-89.html#post52334451)
It's sad and comical that Charlotte's fan club felt the need to have a dick-measuring contest with rural eastern NC. :meh:
I don't have anything against the city itself, but some of it's boosters are annoying as hell.
Quote from: Road Hog on August 12, 2018, 02:11:24 AM
Austin and San Antonio are growing toward each other and in another 30 years will be essentially one giant conurbation.
Are there cities and counties in Texas where they have to cater to both Austin and San Antonio Commuters at the same time? Well in another thread I mentioned that Temecula once had the fastest population growth in Southern California because they had to market their housing to both San Diego and Los Angeles commuters at the same time? What is the cost of living standards in Austin and San Antonio though and how many are being priced out of these places.
Quote from: bing101 on August 12, 2018, 05:24:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 12, 2018, 02:11:24 AM
Austin and San Antonio are growing toward each other and in another 30 years will be essentially one giant conurbation.
Are there cities and counties in Texas where they have to cater to both Austin and San Antonio Commuters at the same time? Well in another thread I mentioned that Temecula once had the fastest population growth in Southern California because they had to market their housing to both San Diego and Los Angeles commuters at the same time? What is the cost of living standards in Austin and San Antonio though and how many are being priced out of these places.
There are lots of areas where two big cities are relatively close and some suburb can serve as a commuting location to both. Ideal where h works in one City and w works in the other. Most of the MD suburbs of DC that are reasonably close to 95 serve in that capacity for Baltimore and DC.
Nexus 5X
Quote from: mrsman on August 12, 2018, 06:19:51 PM
Quote from: bing101 on August 12, 2018, 05:24:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 12, 2018, 02:11:24 AM
Austin and San Antonio are growing toward each other and in another 30 years will be essentially one giant conurbation.
Are there cities and counties in Texas where they have to cater to both Austin and San Antonio Commuters at the same time? Well in another thread I mentioned that Temecula once had the fastest population growth in Southern California because they had to market their housing to both San Diego and Los Angeles commuters at the same time? What is the cost of living standards in Austin and San Antonio though and how many are being priced out of these places.
There are lots of areas where two big cities are relatively close and some suburb can serve as a commuting location to both. Ideal where h works in one City and w works in the other. Most of the MD suburbs of DC that are reasonably close to 95 serve in that capacity for Baltimore and DC.
Nexus 5X
State of New Jersey
State of Connecticut
Kenosha, WI
Lakeland, FL
http://fortune.com/2018/04/11/philippines-new-clark-city/
In the Philippines there have been talks to decentralize Manila and form a new economic hub in Clark Philippines and make it a new major city in that country for some time though.
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 12, 2018, 11:34:36 PM
Quote from: mrsman on August 12, 2018, 06:19:51 PM
Quote from: bing101 on August 12, 2018, 05:24:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 12, 2018, 02:11:24 AM
Austin and San Antonio are growing toward each other and in another 30 years will be essentially one giant conurbation.
Are there cities and counties in Texas where they have to cater to both Austin and San Antonio Commuters at the same time? Well in another thread I mentioned that Temecula once had the fastest population growth in Southern California because they had to market their housing to both San Diego and Los Angeles commuters at the same time? What is the cost of living standards in Austin and San Antonio though and how many are being priced out of these places.
There are lots of areas where two big cities are relatively close and some suburb can serve as a commuting location to both. Ideal where h works in one City and w works in the other. Most of the MD suburbs of DC that are reasonably close to 95 serve in that capacity for Baltimore and DC.
Nexus 5X
State of New Jersey
State of Connecticut
Kenosha, WI
Lakeland, FL
https://solanoedc.org/data-center/data/labor-force
https://solanoedc.org/data-center/data/demographics/
And yes Solano County, CA should be on this list for being the commuter county of Sacramento and San Francisco has mentioned in this economic development report.
Wilmington, De. It is being reinvented & new companies are moving in.
iPhone
Quote from: mrsman on August 12, 2018, 06:19:51 PM
Quote from: bing101 on August 12, 2018, 05:24:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 12, 2018, 02:11:24 AM
Austin and San Antonio are growing toward each other and in another 30 years will be essentially one giant conurbation.
Are there cities and counties in Texas where they have to cater to both Austin and San Antonio Commuters at the same time? Well in another thread I mentioned that Temecula once had the fastest population growth in Southern California because they had to market their housing to both San Diego and Los Angeles commuters at the same time? What is the cost of living standards in Austin and San Antonio though and how many are being priced out of these places.
There are lots of areas where two big cities are relatively close and some suburb can serve as a commuting location to both. Ideal where h works in one City and w works in the other. Most of the MD suburbs of DC that are reasonably close to 95 serve in that capacity for Baltimore and DC.
Nexus 5X
This is done on a smaller scale all the time, never mind proximity to a major city. Shoot, we picked the little town we're in now because it was halfway between where we worked – about 25 miles either way.
I see a lot of examples of cities popping up because of their location in between two major urban areas. This is why we really need to promote transit networks that serve commuters between the two regions.
Quote from: Tonytone on November 25, 2018, 11:11:56 PM
Wilmington, De. It is being reinvented & new companies are moving in.
iPhone
Do you think it's gonna become as big as Philly or DC/Baltimore?
Quote from: MantyMadTown on November 26, 2018, 12:58:01 AM
I see a lot of examples of cities popping up because of their location in between two major urban areas. This is why we really need to promote transit networks that serve commuters between the two regions.
Quote from: Tonytone on November 25, 2018, 11:11:56 PM
Wilmington, De. It is being reinvented & new companies are moving in.
iPhone
Do you think it's gonna become as big as Philly or DC/Baltimore?
New castle county has a population of 559,793, including wilmington, if the city keeps moving south, as more areas are becoming urban & less suburban & rural, I could see it happening in the next 40-80 years.
iPhone
Quote from: texaskdog on August 07, 2018, 11:49:36 PM
Quote from: bing101 on August 07, 2018, 11:27:14 PM
Austin, TX was discussed at one point though to become the newest major city given that I heard of that area getting former California Residents at one point.
Yes, way too many of them. Figured Austin was already major though. I say Salt Lake City.
I heard the hype of Austin, TX is basically if San Francisco, Berkeley, Davis and Sacramento moved to one area within a red state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin,_Texas
Interestingly as of this Wikipedia post its the same size as San Jose as of 2018.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Paso,_Texas
How About El Paso, TX it has to be in the running for Newest major city in the USA.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on August 08, 2018, 02:06:08 PM
Isn't a lot of the "growth" in these cities simply the result of the city expanding geographically through the annexation of unincorporated suburbs? That definitely seems to be a sunbelt thing, as I don't know of any annexations in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic.
IMO a better measure of a city's size is the size of its metropolitan area. The Sunbelt cities stack the top of the population totals by just annexing everything around it. If DC could be as liberal and annex Arlington and Arlington, it would have a population of just over 1 million and would jump into the top 10 in city populations.
The square mileage of some of these Sunbelt cities is just obscene.
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 08, 2018, 01:09:20 AM
Quote from: Rothman on August 08, 2018, 12:09:54 AM
Salt Lake's MSA already has over a million people while the city has under 200,000.
Salt Lake proper has become quite a hollow city, only being saved by a whole lot of investment in the downtown by the LDS Church. Just six blocks out of downtown (6th South) and it isn't pretty.
You know I bet SLC is becoming a big hub for lots of companies and people to move to!
SLC is boring af
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 27, 2018, 01:45:45 PM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 08, 2018, 01:09:20 AM
Quote from: Rothman on August 08, 2018, 12:09:54 AM
Salt Lake's MSA already has over a million people while the city has under 200,000.
Salt Lake proper has become quite a hollow city, only being saved by a whole lot of investment in the downtown by the LDS Church. Just six blocks out of downtown (6th South) and it isn't pretty.
You know I bet SLC is becoming a big hub for lots of companies and people to move to!
SLC is boring af
Clearly, you haven't been downtown in the last ten years. Yeah, the Mormons funded a lot of the most recent development like City Creek, but there's more than just that. There is significant growth in the Salt Lake area, and a lot of it is tech-related. In fact, the area is known as Silicon Slopes, although that tends to be centered more towards the Draper/Lehi area to the south. There's a whole lot of banking activity in downtown as well; I know Goldman Sachs has a major operation downtown, for example.
The areas to the immediate south and west of downtown aren't the greatest, but all cities have their good and bad areas. And for what it's worth, the 2017 census estimates the population of the city proper at 200,544.
I've stated this before, but I don't think the MSA is a good way to describe Salt Lake City either, because you run into the issue of whether Provo and Ogden should be considered different metropolitan areas. The census says yes, and because MSAs are defined by county, that leaves out a lot of people in Davis and Utah Counties who commute to SLC and would otherwise be included in the metro. If you take the Salt Lake-Ogden-Provo CSA, you get a population of 2,559,350 which makes it the 23rd-largest CSA in the country. It's also one of the fastest-growing areas in the US today.
Quote from: US 89 on November 27, 2018, 05:45:08 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 27, 2018, 01:45:45 PM
SLC is boring af
... tech-related ... banking activity ...
I don't mean to offend–I've only been to SLC once, and that was probably 25 years ago for a wedding on Halloween–but those two things you mentioned don't really sound all that un-boring.
I didn't find SLC to be any more or less boring than any other, similarly-sized city. They seem to have eliminated the blue laws forbidding people from walking into a bar and ordering a drink. And I quite enjoyed the organ recital at the Tabernacle I attended.
Quote from: kphoger on November 27, 2018, 06:55:34 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 27, 2018, 05:45:08 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 27, 2018, 01:45:45 PM
SLC is boring af
... tech-related ... banking activity ...
I don't mean to offend–I've only been to SLC once, and that was probably 25 years ago for a wedding on Halloween–but those two things you mentioned don't really sound all that un-boring.
I was about to say the same thing and referring to the entire SLC metro area (all the way to oh--so-exotic Draper?) doesn't make SLC that much more alluring.
Last thing I did for entertainment in SLC was catch a lousy comedy show somewhere right downtown. Reminded me of President Kimball's (Mormon leader's) sermon about how befuddled he was at the lack of decent Mormon artistry. Well, when your religion and Utah culture has a very narrow view of what is acceptable for entertainment, you end up with tired crap. I mean, Studio C has had its moments -- its very few moments -- but how much of that sitcommy crap can one tolerate?
Also reminds me of the old joke about what a Utahn will say when you ask them what there is to do in the area: "Well, within a day's drive you can..." Scary thing is that I have heard that actual line from native Utahns on my trips out there to visit family!
was there in September, place was boring af. phoenix is worse though.
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 27, 2018, 07:04:50 PM
I didn't find SLC to be any more or less boring than any other, similarly-sized city. They seem to have eliminated the blue laws forbidding people from walking into a bar and ordering a drink. And I quite enjoyed the organ recital at the Tabernacle I attended.
That used to be a strange quirk in Utah. You had to belong to a "club" in order to get an alcoholic drink. It turned into a bit of a joke, even in the early 70s (when my parents were out there for a couple of years). The club was free and the cards were handed out in the restaurant when you ordered the drink.
To this day; however, Utah still has some interesting liquor laws, and is the only place caffeine free cola outsells regular cola.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_Utah
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 28, 2018, 09:25:19 AM
was there in September, place was boring af. phoenix is worse though.
Hm. I'd actually disagree there. Phoenix is a "new" city and I've enjoyed my visits there.
Quote from: Rothman on November 28, 2018, 09:32:18 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 28, 2018, 09:25:19 AM
was there in September, place was boring af. phoenix is worse though.
Hm. I'd actually disagree there. Phoenix is a "new" city and I've enjoyed my visits there.
to me phoenix was the city you fly into to and immediately leave to experience the actually cool parts of the state. Camelback mountain was the only thing interesting in that city.
Quote from: Brandon on November 28, 2018, 09:26:02 AMTo this day; however, Utah still has some interesting liquor laws, and is the only place caffeine free cola outsells regular cola.
That would explain why I had so much trouble finding caffeine-free soda for sale in convenience stores.
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 28, 2018, 09:52:53 AM
Quote from: Brandon on November 28, 2018, 09:26:02 AMTo this day; however, Utah still has some interesting liquor laws, and is the only place caffeine free cola outsells regular cola.
That would explain why I had so much trouble finding caffeine-free soda for sale in convenience stores.
Might be changing now that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has clarified that caffeinated sodas are not against the Word of Wisdom (dietary doctrine). Grew up not drinking them myself and still do not out of habit.
Quote from: Rothman on November 28, 2018, 01:11:28 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 28, 2018, 09:52:53 AM
Quote from: Brandon on November 28, 2018, 09:26:02 AMTo this day; however, Utah still has some interesting liquor laws, and is the only place caffeine free cola outsells regular cola.
That would explain why I had so much trouble finding caffeine-free soda for sale in convenience stores.
Might be changing now that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has clarified that caffeinated sodas are not against the Word of Wisdom (dietary doctrine). Grew up not drinking them myself and still do not out of habit.
Given how cheery they tend to be, I think it'd be interested to see a caffeinated Mormon.
Drank two tablespoons of Mountain Dew on a late night drive down to Tennessee for the eclipse and that's all I needed to be safe.
As my father says, keep your exposure low and you keep the required dose low. :D
Quote from: Rothman on November 28, 2018, 01:24:10 PM
Drank two tablespoons of Mountain Dew on a late night drive down to Tennessee for the eclipse and that's all I needed to be safe.
As my father says, keep your exposure low and you keep the required dose low. :D
I find the cold and the tingle of a soda to be nearly as invigorating as the caffeine itself.
Quote from: Brandon on November 28, 2018, 09:26:02 AM
That used to be a strange quirk in Utah. You had to belong to a "club" in order to get an alcoholic drink. It turned into a bit of a joke, even in the early 70s (when my parents were out there for a couple of years). The club was free and the cards were handed out in the restaurant when you ordered the drink.
Technically, that is still the law in WV. The state Constitution still forbids "consumption in a saloon or other public place".
They worked around it it two ways. Back in the 30s they declared beer to be "non-intoxicating beer" and thus bars could sell beer. Still today, if you look at the license of a beer only place it authorized the sale of "non-intoxicating beer". (And yes somebody did try to beat a DUI by pointing out that the state itself called the stuff "non-intoxicating". He lost.)
As to hard liquor, until the early 60s, the only places with hard liquor drinks were real clubs, like the Shrine, Moose, KofC and like that. The voters kept rejecting a repeal admendment, so they just decided to ignore that and anybody who wanted to start a bar could just form a "club" that charged $1 to join, with $1 discount on your first drink.
Until the mid-80s or so, the state cops would raise revenue by going into bars and asking everybody for their membership cards, and ticket the owners. Owners also had to keep a ledger where every "member" signed, which the cops would inspect. Traveling people would make a joke out of how many membership cards they had. I had a professor who had nearly a 1000. Eventually one of the governors, think it was Moore, but I forget, said this was counterproductive and told the cops to stand down, and the actual card and such went away, but it is still actually a "club" to this day.
I still think the dumbest state-specific law regarding serving alcohol is SC's that requires serving liquor in bars by the airline bottle, meaning that, if you want a drink or a shooter made with more than one kind of alcohol, they have to make a giant drink using airline bottles (you can have them split the finished product multiple ways, though).
Supposedly VA has a law against making drinks that mix beer and hard liquor, but I think that particular bartender didn't feel like making Irish car bombs (it can be a pain in the ass to get shot glasses out of the bottoms of Guiness glasses, from what I hear).
I'd say that, due to being a top 20 finalist for Amazon's HQ2 in addition to being a former contender for Apple's HQ2, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill aka the Research Triangle or simply The Triangle, is poised to become the next major combined statistical area.
Quote from: kevinb1994 on November 29, 2018, 12:11:44 AM
I'd say that, due to being a top 20 finalist for Amazon's HQ2 in addition to being a former contender for Apple's HQ2, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill aka the Research Triangle or simply The Triangle, is poised to become the next major combined statistical area.
I think there should be a giant transit network serving the Triangle, Greensboro, and Winston-Salem. I'm guessing that whole area's gonna be a giant conurbation at one point.
Quote from: MantyMadTown on November 29, 2018, 03:01:17 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on November 29, 2018, 12:11:44 AM
I'd say that, due to being a top 20 finalist for Amazon's HQ2 in addition to being a former contender for Apple's HQ2, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill aka the Research Triangle or simply The Triangle, is poised to become the next major combined statistical area.
I think there should be a giant transit network serving the Triangle, Greensboro, and Winston-Salem. I'm guessing that whole area's gonna be a giant conurbation at one point.
Yeah and don't forget High Point which is the third major city of the Piedmont Triad.
I believe it will be at the bottom of the ocean, far away from land :sombrero:.
Quote from: kevinb1994 on November 29, 2018, 03:10:00 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on November 29, 2018, 03:01:17 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on November 29, 2018, 12:11:44 AM
I'd say that, due to being a top 20 finalist for Amazon's HQ2 in addition to being a former contender for Apple's HQ2, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill aka the Research Triangle or simply The Triangle, is poised to become the next major combined statistical area.
I think there should be a giant transit network serving the Triangle, Greensboro, and Winston-Salem. I'm guessing that whole area's gonna be a giant conurbation at one point.
Yeah and don't forget High Point which is the third major city of the Piedmont Triad.
Well I see that Amtrak's Carolinian and Piedmont connect Raleigh with Cary, Durham, Burlington, Greensboro, and High Point, with a bus connection between High Point and Winston-Salem. But I'm wondering if we can build rail lines there besides just Amtrak.
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 28, 2018, 03:02:45 PM
I still think the dumbest state-specific law regarding serving alcohol is SC's that requires serving liquor in bars by the airline bottle, meaning that, if you want a drink or a shooter made with more than one kind of alcohol, they have to make a giant drink using airline bottles (you can have them split the finished product multiple ways, though).
I thought that law was modified long ago to allow regular liquor bottles and pours in bars.
QuoteSupposedly VA has a law against making drinks that mix beer and hard liquor, but I think that particular bartender didn't feel like making Irish car bombs (it can be a pain in the ass to get shot glasses out of the bottoms of Guiness glasses, from what I hear).
Done all the time, at bars everywhere. Usually they'll use a regular pint glass, or just a plastic cup, rather than the traditional Guinness glass.
Quote from: kevinb1994 on November 29, 2018, 12:11:44 AM
I'd say that, due to being a top 20 finalist for Amazon's HQ2 in addition to being a former contender for Apple's HQ2, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill aka the Research Triangle or simply The Triangle, is poised to become the next major combined statistical area.
I keep feeling like Alamance County is going to be prime for some explosive growth over the 20 years. It's the buffer zone between Raleigh/Durham and the Triad and one could feasibly commute to either Raleigh or Greensboro from there.
Quote from: Rothman on November 28, 2018, 09:32:18 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 28, 2018, 09:25:19 AM
was there in September, place was boring af. phoenix is worse though.
Hm. I'd actually disagree there. Phoenix is a "new" city and I've enjoyed my visits there.
Maybe I'm just boring but I find most "new" cities insufferably boring, if only because they seem mass produced. A lot of the fun of east coast and older rust belt cities is that you can see the organic growth of the city in its footprint. Boston, New York, and DC have a lot of older buildings that blend in with the new construction and you can really get a sense of history from being there. Most Sunbelt cities feel like someone just mass produced them in a factory and just plopped them down on the plot of land that they occupy. The fact that a place like Phoenix tries to subvert its natural environment and pump in water from the Colorado River so they can have greenery is an example of this, in my mind.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2018, 09:18:18 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on November 29, 2018, 12:11:44 AM
I'd say that, due to being a top 20 finalist for Amazon's HQ2 in addition to being a former contender for Apple's HQ2, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill aka the Research Triangle or simply The Triangle, is poised to become the next major combined statistical area.
I keep feeling like Alamance County is going to be prime for some explosive growth over the 20 years. It's the buffer zone between Raleigh/Durham and the Triad and one could feasibly commute to either Raleigh or Greensboro from there.
Quote from: Rothman on November 28, 2018, 09:32:18 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 28, 2018, 09:25:19 AM
was there in September, place was boring af. phoenix is worse though.
Hm. I'd actually disagree there. Phoenix is a "new" city and I've enjoyed my visits there.
Maybe I'm just boring but I find most "new" cities insufferably boring, if only because they seem mass produced. A lot of the fun of east coast and older rust belt cities is that you can see the organic growth of the city in its footprint. Boston, New York, and DC have a lot of older buildings that blend in with the new construction and you can really get a sense of history from being there. Most Sunbelt cities feel like someone just mass produced them in a factory and just plopped them down on the plot of land that they occupy. The fact that a place like Phoenix tries to subvert its natural environment and pump in water from the Colorado River so they can have greenery is an example of this, in my mind.
no architecture to speak of in downtowns of "new" cities, blocks are way too big, nothing to do in the downtown. booooring!
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 29, 2018, 09:22:24 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2018, 09:18:18 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on November 29, 2018, 12:11:44 AM
I'd say that, due to being a top 20 finalist for Amazon's HQ2 in addition to being a former contender for Apple's HQ2, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill aka the Research Triangle or simply The Triangle, is poised to become the next major combined statistical area.
I keep feeling like Alamance County is going to be prime for some explosive growth over the 20 years. It's the buffer zone between Raleigh/Durham and the Triad and one could feasibly commute to either Raleigh or Greensboro from there.
Quote from: Rothman on November 28, 2018, 09:32:18 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 28, 2018, 09:25:19 AM
was there in September, place was boring af. phoenix is worse though.
Hm. I'd actually disagree there. Phoenix is a "new" city and I've enjoyed my visits there.
Maybe I'm just boring but I find most "new" cities insufferably boring, if only because they seem mass produced. A lot of the fun of east coast and older rust belt cities is that you can see the organic growth of the city in its footprint. Boston, New York, and DC have a lot of older buildings that blend in with the new construction and you can really get a sense of history from being there. Most Sunbelt cities feel like someone just mass produced them in a factory and just plopped them down on the plot of land that they occupy. The fact that a place like Phoenix tries to subvert its natural environment and pump in water from the Colorado River so they can have greenery is an example of this, in my mind.
no architecture to speak of in downtowns of "new" cities, blocks are way too big, nothing to do in the downtown. booooring!
That's another thing, older cities are much more walkable because they were constructed and laid out before the automobile. A good city needs a good downtown and we moved away from that in the mid-20th century in favor of sprawling cities, which was a mistake.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 29, 2018, 06:06:35 AMI thought that law was modified long ago to allow regular liquor bottles and pours in bars.
You are correct, the law was modified in 2006. I have not been in a bar in SC since 2002.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2018, 09:27:04 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 29, 2018, 09:22:24 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2018, 09:18:18 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on November 29, 2018, 12:11:44 AM
I'd say that, due to being a top 20 finalist for Amazon's HQ2 in addition to being a former contender for Apple's HQ2, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill aka the Research Triangle or simply The Triangle, is poised to become the next major combined statistical area.
I keep feeling like Alamance County is going to be prime for some explosive growth over the 20 years. It's the buffer zone between Raleigh/Durham and the Triad and one could feasibly commute to either Raleigh or Greensboro from there.
Quote from: Rothman on November 28, 2018, 09:32:18 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 28, 2018, 09:25:19 AM
was there in September, place was boring af. phoenix is worse though.
Hm. I'd actually disagree there. Phoenix is a "new" city and I've enjoyed my visits there.
Maybe I'm just boring but I find most "new" cities insufferably boring, if only because they seem mass produced. A lot of the fun of east coast and older rust belt cities is that you can see the organic growth of the city in its footprint. Boston, New York, and DC have a lot of older buildings that blend in with the new construction and you can really get a sense of history from being there. Most Sunbelt cities feel like someone just mass produced them in a factory and just plopped them down on the plot of land that they occupy. The fact that a place like Phoenix tries to subvert its natural environment and pump in water from the Colorado River so they can have greenery is an example of this, in my mind.
no architecture to speak of in downtowns of "new" cities, blocks are way too big, nothing to do in the downtown. booooring!
That's another thing, older cities are much more walkable because they were constructed and laid out before the automobile. A good city needs a good downtown and we moved away from that in the mid-20th century in favor of sprawling cities, which was a mistake.
We need to get away from squiggly roads that go nowhere. bring back the grid and reform zoning.
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 29, 2018, 09:39:10 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2018, 09:27:04 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 29, 2018, 09:22:24 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2018, 09:18:18 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on November 29, 2018, 12:11:44 AM
I'd say that, due to being a top 20 finalist for Amazon's HQ2 in addition to being a former contender for Apple's HQ2, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill aka the Research Triangle or simply The Triangle, is poised to become the next major combined statistical area.
I keep feeling like Alamance County is going to be prime for some explosive growth over the 20 years. It's the buffer zone between Raleigh/Durham and the Triad and one could feasibly commute to either Raleigh or Greensboro from there.
Quote from: Rothman on November 28, 2018, 09:32:18 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 28, 2018, 09:25:19 AM
was there in September, place was boring af. phoenix is worse though.
Hm. I'd actually disagree there. Phoenix is a "new" city and I've enjoyed my visits there.
Maybe I'm just boring but I find most "new" cities insufferably boring, if only because they seem mass produced. A lot of the fun of east coast and older rust belt cities is that you can see the organic growth of the city in its footprint. Boston, New York, and DC have a lot of older buildings that blend in with the new construction and you can really get a sense of history from being there. Most Sunbelt cities feel like someone just mass produced them in a factory and just plopped them down on the plot of land that they occupy. The fact that a place like Phoenix tries to subvert its natural environment and pump in water from the Colorado River so they can have greenery is an example of this, in my mind.
no architecture to speak of in downtowns of "new" cities, blocks are way too big, nothing to do in the downtown. booooring!
That's another thing, older cities are much more walkable because they were constructed and laid out before the automobile. A good city needs a good downtown and we moved away from that in the mid-20th century in favor of sprawling cities, which was a mistake.
We need to get away from squiggly roads that go nowhere. bring back the grid and reform zoning.
Or in Houston's case, implement zoning.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2018, 09:42:40 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 29, 2018, 09:39:10 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2018, 09:27:04 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 29, 2018, 09:22:24 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2018, 09:18:18 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on November 29, 2018, 12:11:44 AM
I'd say that, due to being a top 20 finalist for Amazon's HQ2 in addition to being a former contender for Apple's HQ2, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill aka the Research Triangle or simply The Triangle, is poised to become the next major combined statistical area.
I keep feeling like Alamance County is going to be prime for some explosive growth over the 20 years. It's the buffer zone between Raleigh/Durham and the Triad and one could feasibly commute to either Raleigh or Greensboro from there.
Quote from: Rothman on November 28, 2018, 09:32:18 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 28, 2018, 09:25:19 AM
was there in September, place was boring af. phoenix is worse though.
Hm. I'd actually disagree there. Phoenix is a "new" city and I've enjoyed my visits there.
Maybe I'm just boring but I find most "new" cities insufferably boring, if only because they seem mass produced. A lot of the fun of east coast and older rust belt cities is that you can see the organic growth of the city in its footprint. Boston, New York, and DC have a lot of older buildings that blend in with the new construction and you can really get a sense of history from being there. Most Sunbelt cities feel like someone just mass produced them in a factory and just plopped them down on the plot of land that they occupy. The fact that a place like Phoenix tries to subvert its natural environment and pump in water from the Colorado River so they can have greenery is an example of this, in my mind.
no architecture to speak of in downtowns of "new" cities, blocks are way too big, nothing to do in the downtown. booooring!
That's another thing, older cities are much more walkable because they were constructed and laid out before the automobile. A good city needs a good downtown and we moved away from that in the mid-20th century in favor of sprawling cities, which was a mistake.
We need to get away from squiggly roads that go nowhere. bring back the grid and reform zoning.
Or in Houston's case, implement zoning.
texas may set the record for most beltways around a metro area in a few years.
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 29, 2018, 09:45:55 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2018, 09:42:40 AM
Or in Houston's case, implement zoning.
texas may set the record for most beltways around a metro area in a few years.
Houston already has a complete inner loop freeway and two complete beltway freeways.
I can't think of any city with more than that.
Quote from: Tonytone on November 25, 2018, 11:11:56 PM
Wilmington, De. It is being reinvented & new companies are moving in.
iPhone
Yeah, look at the growth in southern New Castle county. There was discussion about Middletown over in the DE US 301 Toll thread. I just passed through there last week and was really surprised.
Quote from: MantyMadTown on November 29, 2018, 04:05:41 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on November 29, 2018, 03:10:00 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on November 29, 2018, 03:01:17 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on November 29, 2018, 12:11:44 AM
I'd say that, due to being a top 20 finalist for Amazon's HQ2 in addition to being a former contender for Apple's HQ2, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill aka the Research Triangle or simply The Triangle, is poised to become the next major combined statistical area.
I think there should be a giant transit network serving the Triangle, Greensboro, and Winston-Salem. I'm guessing that whole area's gonna be a giant conurbation at one point.
Yeah and don't forget High Point which is the third major city of the Piedmont Triad.
Well I see that Amtrak's Carolinian and Piedmont connect Raleigh with Cary, Durham, Burlington, Greensboro, and High Point, with a bus connection between High Point and Winston-Salem. But I'm wondering if we can build rail lines there besides just Amtrak.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150402181705/http://ourtransitfuture.com/projects/durham-wake/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20150402181705/http://ourtransitfuture.com/projects/durham-wake/)
https://web.archive.org/web/20070529123915/http://www.partnc.org/5-rail.htm (https://web.archive.org/web/20070529123915/http://www.partnc.org/5-rail.htm)
https://www.ncdot.govisions/rail/Pages/future-service.aspx (https://www.ncdot.govisions/rail/Pages/future-service.aspx)
Sioux Falls SD has seen major growth over the years. Now it's population is pushing 200,000 nearly double from 1990. I don't get what the attraction is that so many people are moving there. Boring terrain cold weather the big attractions South Dakota has like Mt Rushmore and Deadwood ect are way on the other side of the state.
Quote from: dvferyance on November 29, 2018, 07:49:22 PM
Sioux Falls SD has seen major growth over the years. Now it's population is pushing 200,000 nearly double from 1990. I don't get what the attraction is that so many people are moving there. Boring terrain cold weather the big attractions South Dakota has like Mt Rushmore and Deadwood ect are way on the other side of the state.
i doubt that will ever be a major city.
Quote from: bing101 on November 26, 2018, 03:58:48 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on August 07, 2018, 11:49:36 PM
Quote from: bing101 on August 07, 2018, 11:27:14 PM
Austin, TX was discussed at one point though to become the newest major city given that I heard of that area getting former California Residents at one point.
Yes, way too many of them. Figured Austin was already major though. I say Salt Lake City.
I heard the hype of Austin, TX is basically if San Francisco, Berkeley, Davis and Sacramento moved to one area within a red state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin,_Texas
Interestingly as of this Wikipedia post its the same size as San Jose as of 2018.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Paso,_Texas
How About El Paso, TX it has to be in the running for Newest major city in the USA.
El Paso TX is likely close to a million, within city limits, if everyone is counted. Add Cuidad Juarez directly to the south, and it is a metro area of at least three million. It has gotten very crowded in El Paso, with too much overly dense development being allowed. Not what it used to be in terms of livability.
Quote from: DJStephens on December 04, 2018, 09:21:31 PM
El Paso TX is likely close to a million, within city limits, if everyone is counted. Add Cuidad Juarez directly to the south, and it is a metro area of at least three million. It has gotten very crowded in El Paso, with too much overly dense development being allowed. Not what it used to be in terms of livability.
El Paso = approx. to 700,000 in city limits
Cd Juárez = approx. 1.5 million in city limits
Bi-national metro area = approx. 2.7 million
My vote goes to India. The newest major city will be in India.
It's possible that after Boise, the next large city in the West could be Colorado Springs. The growth rate since 1940 in the city itself has been 23.6%, 54.4%, 93.1%, 58.7%, 30.7%, 28.4%, 15.4%. Between 2010 & the latest (2017) estimate, it's been 11.5% to a total of nearly 465k. They just incorporated new land that is projected to add another 175k.
The MSA (El Paso & Teller Counties) are at ~725k now. While much of the growth is still taking place within Colo Spgs' city limits, it is starting to spread north, east, and south. Areas such as Fountain, Security-Widefield, Falcon, Black Forest & Gleneagle have experienced much of the spillover growth.
Soon, it could be that Colorado Springs and Denver grow together into a large conurbation (with Boulder, Ft Collins & Greeley to the north) housing nearly 6 million. The southern areas of Douglas County, which are still rural, are all that separates southern Denver suburbs (Castle Rock) from northern Colorado Springs suburbs (Palmer Lake, Monument, Black Forest). That's about 15 rural miles of I-25 that is currently choked with commuters.
The remaining four-lane sections of I-25 between Springs and Denver already may be having serious issues with undercapacity.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 05, 2018, 03:22:03 PM
The remaining four-lane sections of I-25 between Springs and Denver already may be having serious issues with undercapacity.
CDOT is widening that stretch, but the additional lanes are going to be "express" lanes.
https://www.9news.com/article/traffic/construction-starts-tuesday-for-i-25-widening-project-between-monument-and-castle-rock/73-588746389
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PWWtqfwacQ
Interesting explanation for location of cities.
Quote from: DJStephens on December 04, 2018, 09:21:31 PM
El Paso TX is likely close to a million, within city limits, if everyone is counted. Add Cuidad Juarez directly to the south, and it is a metro area of at least three million. It has gotten very crowded in El Paso, with too much overly dense development being allowed. Not what it used to be in terms of livability.
Looking around on Google Maps, I'm not seeing anything overly dense, even by Western U.S. standards. El Paso can't grow into the next great city if people have to commute out from the edge of sprawlsville just to afford a home.
Quote from: dvferyance on November 29, 2018, 07:49:22 PM
Sioux Falls SD has seen major growth over the years. Now it's population is pushing 200,000 nearly double from 1990. I don't get what the attraction is that so many people are moving there. Boring terrain cold weather the big attractions South Dakota has like Mt Rushmore and Deadwood ect are way on the other side of the state.
Much of the growth of Sioux Falls has to do with the growth of the financial services industry there. It's also a big medical hub. FWIW, my uncle who lives there works for a bank and his wife for a hospital.
Quote from: Bruce on December 06, 2018, 12:02:23 AM
Quote from: DJStephens on December 04, 2018, 09:21:31 PM
El Paso TX is likely close to a million, within city limits, if everyone is counted. Add Cuidad Juarez directly to the south, and it is a metro area of at least three million. It has gotten very crowded in El Paso, with too much overly dense development being allowed. Not what it used to be in terms of livability.
Looking around on Google Maps, I'm not seeing anything overly dense, even by Western U.S. standards. El Paso can't grow into the next great city if people have to commute out from the edge of sprawlsville just to afford a home.
It's not so much sprawl if you have parks and military installations that are in the way. El Paso (https://goo.gl/maps/6gr7cg3SLyJ2) has grown the way it has due to a very large park (with mountains) dividing the I-10 west corridor from the US-54 corridor, and Fort Bliss dividing that corridor from the I-10 east corridor. Not everywhere is as flat and open as Oklahoma City, nor as constrained as Portland.
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-30/news/mn-3650_1_city-and-sacramento-county
Sacramento City and Sacramento County back in 1990 considered a city/county consolidation similar to San Francisco. If the proposal was approved then Sacramento City/County would have been the second City/County consolidation in California after San Francisco and would have made Sacramento Largest city in Northern California than San Francisco or San Jose today and a major city.
Bend, OR has grown to nearly 100,000 residents from about 20,000 in 1990 and while that's not nearly as big as some of the others here, considering its surroundings (it's by far the biggest city in the I-5/I-84/I-15/I-80 encasement) it definitely qualifies as at least a new regional major city. The roads have not really matched the growth however; Bend still only has two lane roads as connections outside of the immediate area.
Quote from: pdx-wanderer on December 06, 2018, 08:28:37 PM
Bend, OR has grown to nearly 100,000 residents from about 20,000 in 1990 and while that's not nearly as big as some of the others here, considering its surroundings (it's by far the biggest city in the I-5/I-84/I-15/I-80 encasement) it definitely qualifies as at least a new regional major city. The roads have not really matched the growth however; Bend still only has two lane roads as connections outside of the immediate area.
how did bend get so big? :hmmm:
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 06, 2018, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: pdx-wanderer on December 06, 2018, 08:28:37 PM
Bend, OR has grown to nearly 100,000 residents from about 20,000 in 1990 and while that's not nearly as big as some of the others here, considering its surroundings (it's by far the biggest city in the I-5/I-84/I-15/I-80 encasement) it definitely qualifies as at least a new regional major city. The roads have not really matched the growth however; Bend still only has two lane roads as connections outside of the immediate area.
how did bend get so big? :hmmm:
Californians.
If we are to expand outside the USA of this thread about the newest Major cities. I would pick New Clark City, Tarlac and San Fernando, Pampanga these places are trying to be an alternative economic centers in the Philippines besides Metro Manila. The Metro (Manila Area) has been brought up for being overcrowded and most expensive part of the Philippines in multiple debates.
http://www.manilastandard.net/mobile/article/263256 (http://www.manilastandard.net/mobile/article/263256)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capas,_Tarlac (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capas,_Tarlac)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarlac (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarlac)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pampanga (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pampanga)
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 06, 2018, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: pdx-wanderer on December 06, 2018, 08:28:37 PM
Bend, OR has grown to nearly 100,000 residents from about 20,000 in 1990 and while that's not nearly as big as some of the others here, considering its surroundings (it's by far the biggest city in the I-5/I-84/I-15/I-80 encasement) it definitely qualifies as at least a new regional major city. The roads have not really matched the growth however; Bend still only has two lane roads as connections outside of the immediate area.
how did bend get so big? :hmmm:
No one can get the fuck out of it. I visited Bend over the summer on my trip out there, and damn near got lost trying to get out.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 07, 2018, 12:54:51 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 06, 2018, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: pdx-wanderer on December 06, 2018, 08:28:37 PM
Bend, OR has grown to nearly 100,000 residents from about 20,000 in 1990 and while that's not nearly as big as some of the others here, considering its surroundings (it's by far the biggest city in the I-5/I-84/I-15/I-80 encasement) it definitely qualifies as at least a new regional major city. The roads have not really matched the growth however; Bend still only has two lane roads as connections outside of the immediate area.
how did bend get so big? :hmmm:
Californians.
Yeah, lots of Californians move to Bend because of its appeal to the outdoors and to escape the expensive Bay Area housing situation. I actually read that people are still commuting from there to Silicon Valley despite being a 10 hour drive.
Quote from: MantyMadTown on December 07, 2018, 11:58:53 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 07, 2018, 12:54:51 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 06, 2018, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: pdx-wanderer on December 06, 2018, 08:28:37 PM
Bend, OR has grown to nearly 100,000 residents from about 20,000 in 1990 and while that's not nearly as big as some of the others here, considering its surroundings (it's by far the biggest city in the I-5/I-84/I-15/I-80 encasement) it definitely qualifies as at least a new regional major city. The roads have not really matched the growth however; Bend still only has two lane roads as connections outside of the immediate area.
how did bend get so big? :hmmm:
Californians.
Yeah, lots of Californians move to Bend because of its appeal to the outdoors and to escape the expensive Bay Area housing situation. I actually read that people are still commuting from there to Silicon Valley despite being a 10 hour drive.
What the hell its crazy people from Bend, OR commute to the San Jose area for a job? and its a 10 hour commute. Thats like commuting from Sacramento to Los Angeles round trip on I-5.
Quote from: bing101 on December 08, 2018, 01:23:27 PM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on December 07, 2018, 11:58:53 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 07, 2018, 12:54:51 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 06, 2018, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: pdx-wanderer on December 06, 2018, 08:28:37 PM
Bend, OR has grown to nearly 100,000 residents from about 20,000 in 1990 and while that's not nearly as big as some of the others here, considering its surroundings (it's by far the biggest city in the I-5/I-84/I-15/I-80 encasement) it definitely qualifies as at least a new regional major city. The roads have not really matched the growth however; Bend still only has two lane roads as connections outside of the immediate area.
how did bend get so big? :hmmm:
Californians.
Yeah, lots of Californians move to Bend because of its appeal to the outdoors and to escape the expensive Bay Area housing situation. I actually read that people are still commuting from there to Silicon Valley despite being a 10 hour drive.
What the hell its crazy people from Bend, OR commute to the San Jose area for a job? and its a 10 hour commute. Thats like commuting from Sacramento to Los Angeles round trip on I-5.
Live in Bend on weekends, commute to the Bay area to work, renting a tiny studio apartment to crash in on weeknights.
I've seen the same thing WRT Chicago, with weekend homes in Walworth County, WI.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on December 08, 2018, 11:50:59 PM
Quote from: bing101 on December 08, 2018, 01:23:27 PM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on December 07, 2018, 11:58:53 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 07, 2018, 12:54:51 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 06, 2018, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: pdx-wanderer on December 06, 2018, 08:28:37 PM
Bend, OR has grown to nearly 100,000 residents from about 20,000 in 1990 and while that's not nearly as big as some of the others here, considering its surroundings (it's by far the biggest city in the I-5/I-84/I-15/I-80 encasement) it definitely qualifies as at least a new regional major city. The roads have not really matched the growth however; Bend still only has two lane roads as connections outside of the immediate area.
how did bend get so big? :hmmm:
Californians.
Yeah, lots of Californians move to Bend because of its appeal to the outdoors and to escape the expensive Bay Area housing situation. I actually read that people are still commuting from there to Silicon Valley despite being a 10 hour drive.
What the hell its crazy people from Bend, OR commute to the San Jose area for a job? and its a 10 hour commute. Thats like commuting from Sacramento to Los Angeles round trip on I-5.
Live in Bend on weekends, commute to the Bay area to work, renting a tiny studio apartment to crash in on weeknights.
I've seen the same thing WRT Chicago, with weekend homes in Walworth County, WI.
Mike
Fairly common in NYC and DC too. Obviously the personal incentives of doing so have to be huge for the individual to do something like this.
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 09, 2018, 10:09:36 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 08, 2018, 11:50:59 PM
Quote from: bing101 on December 08, 2018, 01:23:27 PM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on December 07, 2018, 11:58:53 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 07, 2018, 12:54:51 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 06, 2018, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: pdx-wanderer on December 06, 2018, 08:28:37 PM
Bend, OR has grown to nearly 100,000 residents from about 20,000 in 1990 and while that's not nearly as big as some of the others here, considering its surroundings (it's by far the biggest city in the I-5/I-84/I-15/I-80 encasement) it definitely qualifies as at least a new regional major city. The roads have not really matched the growth however; Bend still only has two lane roads as connections outside of the immediate area.
how did bend get so big? :hmmm:
Californians.
Yeah, lots of Californians move to Bend because of its appeal to the outdoors and to escape the expensive Bay Area housing situation. I actually read that people are still commuting from there to Silicon Valley despite being a 10 hour drive.
What the hell its crazy people from Bend, OR commute to the San Jose area for a job? and its a 10 hour commute. Thats like commuting from Sacramento to Los Angeles round trip on I-5.
Live in Bend on weekends, commute to the Bay area to work, renting a tiny studio apartment to crash in on weeknights.
I've seen the same thing WRT Chicago, with weekend homes in Walworth County, WI.
Mike
Fairly common in NYC and DC too. Obviously the personal incentives of doing so have to be huge for the individual to do something like this.
I heard of Lobbyists/Superpacs workers from other parts of California spend weekdays in Sacramento but commute to the home districts on the weekends though. Ok that makes more sense though.
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 29, 2018, 09:55:13 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 29, 2018, 07:49:22 PM
Sioux Falls SD has seen major growth over the years. Now it's population is pushing 200,000 nearly double from 1990. I don't get what the attraction is that so many people are moving there. Boring terrain cold weather the big attractions South Dakota has like Mt Rushmore and Deadwood ect are way on the other side of the state.
i doubt that will ever be a major city.
It depends on what you define as major. Will it be major like Denver or Minneapolis? Most likely not but I could see it falling into the size of like Des Moines or Grand Rapids.
Quote from: dvferyance on December 16, 2018, 08:33:43 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 29, 2018, 09:55:13 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 29, 2018, 07:49:22 PM
Sioux Falls SD has seen major growth over the years. Now it's population is pushing 200,000 nearly double from 1990. I don't get what the attraction is that so many people are moving there. Boring terrain cold weather the big attractions South Dakota has like Mt Rushmore and Deadwood ect are way on the other side of the state.
i doubt that will ever be a major city.
It depends on what you define as major. Will it be major like Denver or Minneapolis? Most likely not but I could see it falling into the size of like Des Moines or Grand Rapids.
Well when I posted this I was looking for cities that will be more like Denver or Minneapolis. If Sioux Falls won't be that big I wouldn't count it as major.
Obviously, Rochester, NY, will be the next "major" city. definitely #3 or #4 within the US before the century is over.
Quote from: dvferyance on December 16, 2018, 08:33:43 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 29, 2018, 09:55:13 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 29, 2018, 07:49:22 PM
Sioux Falls SD has seen major growth over the years. Now it's population is pushing 200,000 nearly double from 1990. I don't get what the attraction is that so many people are moving there. Boring terrain cold weather the big attractions South Dakota has like Mt Rushmore and Deadwood ect are way on the other side of the state.
i doubt that will ever be a major city.
It depends on what you define as major. Will it be major like Denver or Minneapolis? Most likely not but I could see it falling into the size of like Des Moines or Grand Rapids.
Isn't Sioux Falls already a similar size to Des Moines and Grand Rapids? :-D
I think it'll be Boise (ID) as the core city and the "Treasure Valley" as the area of most outsized growth. Relatively benign climate but with defined seasons, moderate taxes, and property values that at least for the present are lagging behind much of the rest of the western states (one can get much more house for the money than in CA or the urban Northwest). And the cost of doing business is considerably less. One of my ventures is designing and building home speakers; I am currently sourcing my cabinetry from a woodworking shop in Alameda who themselves until recently utilized a finishing shop a couple of blocks away. But CA costs drove that finishing shop to relocate in Caldwell, ID, about 35 miles west of Boise (my production was delayed for weeks while my cabinet guy located a suitable replacement). Any business working with volatile substances here in CA (in this case stains, lacquers, etc.) will run into environmental issues in CA, particularly in urban zones; while that in itself is completely understandable, from an economic standpoint flight rather than fight seems often to be the solution for many enterprises.
(Saving grace: the new Albany-based finishing shop does a better job for a similar price than the Idaho-bound folks!)
Doesn't Boise have a relatively easy time getting renewable energy sources (hydro and wind, I imagine)? That might be a huge boost in their direction. Just need to improve the public transit situation and you'd have priced-out people from the urban Northwest flocking there.
Quote from: webny99 on December 19, 2018, 12:23:19 PM
Obviously, Rochester, NY, will be the next "major" city. definitely #3 or #4 within the US before the century is over.
Quote from: dvferyance on December 16, 2018, 08:33:43 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 29, 2018, 09:55:13 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 29, 2018, 07:49:22 PM
Sioux Falls SD has seen major growth over the years. Now it's population is pushing 200,000 nearly double from 1990. I don't get what the attraction is that so many people are moving there. Boring terrain cold weather the big attractions South Dakota has like Mt Rushmore and Deadwood ect are way on the other side of the state.
i doubt that will ever be a major city.
It depends on what you define as major. Will it be major like Denver or Minneapolis? Most likely not but I could see it falling into the size of like Des Moines or Grand Rapids.
Isn't Sioux Falls already a similar size to Des Moines and Grand Rapids? :-D
As far as city population goes maybe but it's metro population is much smaller.
Quote from: Bruce on December 21, 2018, 06:40:23 PM
Doesn't Boise have a relatively easy time getting renewable energy sources (hydro and wind, I imagine)? That might be a huge boost in their direction. Just need to improve the public transit situation and you'd have priced-out people from the urban Northwest flocking there.
While the Boise/T.V. metro is approaching 1M (probably get there by about 2022-23 or so at current rates of increase), Boise itself is at about 240K -- a bit shy of what's considered minimal for a high-capital system such as LR. However, as from all accounts congestion has been affecting both I-184 and I-84 west of their junction, bus-only lanes featuring express routes out to the Nampa/Caldwell area might be appropriate -- providing they feed into an efficient in-town network linking such disparate destinations as the capital area, the industrial south part of town, and BSU. And it would surely help if the buses themselves were either fully electric or biofuel-based hybrids -- i.e., stop the heavy hydrocarbon stuff before it even starts!
Quote from: kphoger on December 05, 2018, 01:48:53 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on December 04, 2018, 09:21:31 PM
El Paso TX is likely close to a million, within city limits, if everyone is counted. Add Cuidad Juarez directly to the south, and it is a metro area of at least three million. It has gotten very crowded in El Paso, with too much overly dense development being allowed. Not what it used to be in terms of livability.
El Paso = approx. to 700,000 in city limits
Cd Juárez = approx. 1.5 million in city limits
Bi-national metro area = approx. 2.7 million
My vote goes to India. The newest major city will be in India.
There are likely large groups and numbers of individuals not being counted in El Paso. Due to the proximity of the international border, and the ability to flow across it there. In either direction. And large numbers not wanting to "be counted" due to their immigration or citizenship status.
The texdot used to post "official" population numbers once one crossed into city limits. The "official" 1990 number was 515,000. No signs were posted following either the 00 or 10 census. Both texas and the federal government have a disgusting $7.25 minimum wage on the books. Although likely most "minimum" wage workers there, of which there are lot, make a couple of bucks per hour above that. There are oppressive property tax rates in texas, and they likely vary all over the map statewide. A city such as El Paso, which has a lot of school age children, and too much school administration, soaks up a lot of tax revenue. A simple $100K home, has a yearly property tax bill of well over $3K. In a low wage town. Not a recipe for success.
Quote from: DJStephens on December 22, 2018, 10:17:15 AM
There are likely large groups and numbers of individuals not being counted in El Paso. Due to the proximity of the international border, and the ability to flow across it there. In either direction. And large numbers not wanting to "be counted" due to their immigration or citizenship status.
My experience with the international border (having crossed by land nineteen times in each direction so far (though only once in each direction at Juárez)) is that it is not exactly easy for Mexicans to "flow across it".
Illegal immigrants are counted in the census.
Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2018, 03:41:42 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on December 22, 2018, 10:17:15 AM
There are likely large groups and numbers of individuals not being counted in El Paso. Due to the proximity of the international border, and the ability to flow across it there. In either direction. And large numbers not wanting to "be counted" due to their immigration or citizenship status.
My experience with the international border (having crossed by land nineteen times in each direction so far (though only once in each direction at Juárez)) is that it is not exactly easy for Mexicans to "flow across it".
Illegal immigrants are counted in the census.
And ironically, the Trump Census Department will cost the state of Texas possibly hundreds of billions of dollars in federal funding in its effort to undercount illegals in 2020.
Quote from: sparker on December 22, 2018, 02:34:45 AM
Quote from: Bruce on December 21, 2018, 06:40:23 PM
Doesn't Boise have a relatively easy time getting renewable energy sources (hydro and wind, I imagine)? That might be a huge boost in their direction. Just need to improve the public transit situation and you'd have priced-out people from the urban Northwest flocking there.
While the Boise/T.V. metro is approaching 1M (probably get there by about 2022-23 or so at current rates of increase), Boise itself is at about 240K -- a bit shy of what's considered minimal for a high-capital system such as LR. However, as from all accounts congestion has been affecting both I-184 and I-84 west of their junction, bus-only lanes featuring express routes out to the Nampa/Caldwell area might be appropriate -- providing they feed into an efficient in-town network linking such disparate destinations as the capital area, the industrial south part of town, and BSU. And it would surely help if the buses themselves were either fully electric or biofuel-based hybrids -- i.e., stop the heavy hydrocarbon stuff before it even starts!
I think Boise is at the level where they can support a regional bus system and a frequent in-city network. I tried Valley Transit during a brief stay in Boise a few weeks ago and it had some good facilities to work with (the downtown transit center is quite nice, though the signage is lacking) but the service is far worse than I would expect of a city with more than 250K.
Quote from: bing101 on December 24, 2018, 06:37:14 PM
New Clark City, Tarlac is in the running for new Major city in the Philippines.
Where do other countries get the funding to build new cities out of nowhere? We certainly can't do that here.
Quote from: MantyMadTown on December 26, 2018, 04:30:12 AM
Quote from: bing101 on December 24, 2018, 06:37:14 PM
New Clark City, Tarlac is in the running for new Major city in the Philippines.
Where do other countries get the funding to build new cities out of nowhere? We certainly can't do that here.
New Clark City isn't exactly "out of nowhere." It's being built on what was the former US Clark Air Force Base. Think of what was done on former bases like Lowry (CO), NTC Orlando, and NTC San Diego, only with quite a few more office and condo towers.
Also, bear in mind that the Phillippines is a country that has yet to run into the "middle income trap." Combine that fact with the near 3.00 TFR (total fertility rate), and there's still quite a bit of room to grow economically, if not physically.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/12/12/why-hundreds-of-completely-new-cities-are-being-built-around-the-world/
And heres another one on New Major cities that are in the process of being formed all over the world and one of them is Songdo, South Korea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songdo_International_Business_District
So far as of 2018 100k people live in Songdo but this is subject to change as South Korea attempts to spread economic wealth outside of Seoul.
Chinese cities have experienced extraordinary growth over the past 30 years. Some are well known, like Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen. But inland cities have exploded as well.
This is Chengdu in Sichuan province. It now has more than 10 million people in the urban area.
(https://i.imgur.com/50wIagH.gif)
Quote from: brad2971 on December 26, 2018, 06:13:36 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on December 26, 2018, 04:30:12 AM
Quote from: bing101 on December 24, 2018, 06:37:14 PM
New Clark City, Tarlac is in the running for new Major city in the Philippines.
Where do other countries get the funding to build new cities out of nowhere? We certainly can't do that here.
New Clark City isn't exactly "out of nowhere." It's being built on what was the former US Clark Air Force Base. Think of what was done on former bases like Lowry (CO), NTC Orlando, and NTC San Diego, only with quite a few more office and condo towers.
New Clark City actually isn't on the Clark AFB property at all:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Clark_City
How about Reno is it in the running for new major city status given that I hear about former Sacramento and Bay Area Residents moving to Nevada for retirement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reno,_Nevada
Quote from: bing101 on February 11, 2019, 01:53:14 PM
How about Reno is it in the running for new major city status given that I hear about former Sacramento and Bay Area Residents moving to Nevada for retirement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reno,_Nevada
Reno itself has recently increased to about 225K in the city and about 360K in the metro area. And, yes, much of the growth is coming from displaced CA residents (from all over that state) looking for affordable housing, a lower general cost of living, and considerably lower taxes. But it's not only Reno; the whole Washoe Valley south from there along I-580/US 395 is becoming a magnet for disaffected CA folks; Carson City and the towns arrayed along US 395 south of there (Minden, Gardnerville, etc.) are experiencing a high rate of growth, principally because they attract residents who want "ranch"-style living on large plots of land, which is either unavailable or exorbitant in much of CA. And a lot of the Reno-area growth is along US 395 north of town; so it could safely be stated that the entire US 395 corridor from Gardnerville north to where 395 crosses back in to CA is becoming a single extended metro area, with "infill" between Carson City and Reno becoming more common since I-580 was completed several years ago.
In addition, about 30 miles east of Reno is another growing area, with housing tracts popping up between Fernley and Fallon (about where the nascent I-11 is slated to eventually connect to I-80); these tend to be dominated by "55-plus" retirement communities; the growth there is tied to relatively low housing costs, even when compared with the US 395 corridor several miles to the west. The one issue with both Reno and the Fallon area is that it is
very cold during the winter (Reno sits at about 4500' elevation); Carson City and points to the south usually are at least 10 degrees higher except during storm weather. But the area has plenty of amenities -- with winter sports in immediately adjacent areas, so it's considered a desirable choice. My guess is that the combined Reno-Carson-Fallon area will exceed 1M population no later than 2030, with a high percentage of retirees in than number.
Since the thread seems to be about a singular city rather than MSA, I'd probably say Austin would be the next to cross 1M. There are several fast growing MSAs poised to cross 1M, but most are several smaller cities growing into each other.
Since we're talking about southern cities, aside from North Carolina, Nashville seems to be heavily hyped.
Quote from: FightingIrish on February 15, 2019, 11:32:13 AM
Since we're talking about southern cities, aside from North Carolina, Nashville seems to be heavily hyped.
Especially due to the fact that Amazon chose to locate a mini HQ2 there.
I think in this discussion we've been talking about two different tiers of cities:
1st tier - cities with international levels of influence, like New York, Washington DC, Chicago, LA, and San Francisco/Silicon Valley. I would also argue that Seattle's one of those cities as well, given the presence of the major companies in the area.
2nd tier - cities with a smaller level of influence than 1st tier, but are still pretty large. Some of the cities in this discussion fit this category presently and are on track to becoming 1st tier cities, and some are mid-sized cities looking to become 2nd tier.
I could go on with more tiers, like the 3rd tier–I would say these are the mid-sized cities (city proper around 200k-500k and MSA usually less than 1 mil)–4th tier, and so on.
Quote from: kevinb1994 on February 15, 2019, 12:35:50 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on February 15, 2019, 11:32:13 AM
Since we're talking about southern cities, aside from North Carolina, Nashville seems to be heavily hyped.
Especially due to the fact that Amazon chose to locate a mini HQ2 there.
Which in itself isn't surprising, considering its prominence in the entertainment industry -- as well as its central location in the Mid-South, with Interstate corridor radiating in 6 directions, reflected by radial rail lines (excepting due east). If Amazon was intent on establishing a secondary hub not on the east coast, Nashville's probably as good as any location (the traffic situation in Atlanta probably scared them off!).
Quote from: MantyMadTown on February 15, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
I think in this discussion we've been talking about two different tiers of cities:
The Globalization and World Cities Research Network (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_World_Cities_Research_Network) publishes an annual city classification based on economic status, cultural influence, and political dominance. It's been pretty well regarded as having a consistent method for classifying cities.
The highest tier is Alpha (with subdivisions). NYC is the only Alpha++ city in North America; Chicago, Los Angeles, and Miami appear at Alpha (regular) alongside Toronto; San Francisco, Houston, and Washington D.C. are at Alpha - (minus).
I've always thought they rated Seattle a bit too low down the rankings, with only Beta - compared to Vancouver at Beta +.
Quote from: sparker on February 16, 2019, 01:35:38 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on February 15, 2019, 12:35:50 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on February 15, 2019, 11:32:13 AM
Since we're talking about southern cities, aside from North Carolina, Nashville seems to be heavily hyped.
Especially due to the fact that Amazon chose to locate a mini HQ2 there.
Which in itself isn't surprising, considering its prominence in the entertainment industry -- as well as its central location in the Mid-South, with Interstate corridor radiating in 6 directions, reflected by radial rail lines (excepting due east). If Amazon was intent on establishing a secondary hub not on the east coast, Nashville's probably as good as any location (the traffic situation in Atlanta probably scared them off!).
Yeah if you draw a line from both (or either) Chicago and Miami, the halfway aka middle point would naturally be Nashville, a strategic move made by those behind the Dixie Highway, which funneled traffic from Chicago and Detroit to Miami via Indianapolis and Louisville (and going out of order alphabetically, Cincinnati, Nashville, Atlanta, Jacksonville, and Orlando).
Also before the Dixie Highway, there was the Louisville and Nashville Railroad and before that, the Louisville and Nashville Turnpike and before that, the Wilderness Road (blazed by Daniel Boone, at least initially) with branches from southwestern Virginia on the Great Wagon Road (which brought travelers from Philadelphia to the Appalachians and eventually to the Carolinas, especially to Charlotte) to either Lexington and Louisville or Knoxville and Nashville. Unfortunately the Wilderness Road was passed over in favor of the National Road which used the old Cumberland Road (the successor to the old Braddock Road which was blazed by General Braddock during the French and Indian War between Cumberland, MD and Pittsburgh) which ran from Cumberland, MD to the Ohio River Valley and extended it westward over the portion of the Zane Trace between Wheeling and Zanesville before running out of time and money in Vandalia, IL the former capital of the Land of Lincoln (running through Columbus and Indianapolis in order to get there in the first place). Of course the prominent bankers and financiers wanted it to extend to Baltimore and the District of Columbia (Washington, and before reconstruction, Alexandria and Arlington) and so it did as well.
In those olden days and years, one would continue on the Vincennes Trace and Road from Louisville west to the Wabash River Valley, or continue on the Natchez Trace and Road from Nashville west to the Mississippi River Valley. In essence there was a choice of heading northwest or heading southwest in those days.
Quote from: Bruce on February 16, 2019, 02:56:22 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on February 15, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
I think in this discussion we've been talking about two different tiers of cities:
The Globalization and World Cities Research Network (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_World_Cities_Research_Network) publishes an annual city classification based on economic status, cultural influence, and political dominance. It's been pretty well regarded as having a consistent method for classifying cities.
The highest tier is Alpha (with subdivisions). NYC is the only Alpha++ city in North America; Chicago, Los Angeles, and Miami appear at Alpha (regular) alongside Toronto; San Francisco, Houston, and Washington D.C. are at Alpha - (minus).
I've always thought they rated Seattle a bit too low down the rankings, with only Beta - compared to Vancouver at Beta +.
Here is something interesting though San Jose is listed as a gamma city in the rankings even though they have more people than San Francisco.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 07, 2018, 11:35:23 PM
The Fresno Metro Area was around 973,000 the last time I looked. Certainly wouldn't have thought that moving here, certainly doesn't feel that way now. Apparently the population in the City of Fresno has jumped from 217,000 in 1980 to about 500,000 today.
Wow what's amazing here is that Fresno city proper is the largest city in the Central Valley and its technically bigger than Sacramento though.
I would have guessed Sacramento City proper though as the central valleys largest city though until I looked at population list though for Sacramento city and Sacramento county though.
Quote from: bing101 on February 19, 2019, 08:16:14 AM
Quote from: Bruce on February 16, 2019, 02:56:22 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on February 15, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
I think in this discussion we've been talking about two different tiers of cities:
The Globalization and World Cities Research Network (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_World_Cities_Research_Network) publishes an annual city classification based on economic status, cultural influence, and political dominance. It's been pretty well regarded as having a consistent method for classifying cities.
The highest tier is Alpha (with subdivisions). NYC is the only Alpha++ city in North America; Chicago, Los Angeles, and Miami appear at Alpha (regular) alongside Toronto; San Francisco, Houston, and Washington D.C. are at Alpha - (minus).
I've always thought they rated Seattle a bit too low down the rankings, with only Beta - compared to Vancouver at Beta +.
Here is something interesting though San Jose is listed as a gamma city in the rankings even though they have more people than San Francisco.
Not interesting if you actually read the web site. The listings have little to do with population - notice Miami is an Alpha city, even though it is smaller than San Francisco, Dallas, Houston, etc.
From the website:
Quote
The world according to GaWC is a city-centred world of flows in contrast to the more familiar state-centred world of boundaries.
Cities are assessed in terms of their advanced producer services using the interlocking network model (see GaWC Research Bulletin 23). Indirect measures of flows are derived to compute a city's network connectivity — this measures a city's integration into the world city network.
The connectivity measures are used to classify cities into levels of world city network integration.
San Francisco has been a national and/or international center for business, finance, culture, and tourism for well over 100 years. San Jose was little more than a regional center until perhaps the last 30 years, and only has national and/or international significance now because of Silicon Valley.
It seems like it correlates more strongly to how well-known the city is to outsiders than its actual population.
Quote from: bing101 on February 19, 2019, 08:20:20 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 07, 2018, 11:35:23 PM
The Fresno Metro Area was around 973,000 the last time I looked. Certainly wouldn't have thought that moving here, certainly doesn't feel that way now. Apparently the population in the City of Fresno has jumped from 217,000 in 1980 to about 500,000 today.
Wow what's amazing here is that Fresno city proper is the largest city in the Central Valley and its technically bigger than Sacramento though.
I would have guessed Sacramento City proper though as the central valleys largest city though until I looked at population list though for Sacramento city and Sacramento county though.
Its pretty interesting, you definitely wouldn't know Fresno was that large from CA 99 as most of the growth has been northward and eastward. Sacramento as a metro area has way more sprawl, especially along I-80. There will probably come a time when the Fresno Area connects to Sanger but I don't see that being particularly quick given how little the farm community tends to sell their land to developers.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2019, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: bing101 on February 19, 2019, 08:20:20 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 07, 2018, 11:35:23 PM
The Fresno Metro Area was around 973,000 the last time I looked. Certainly wouldn't have thought that moving here, certainly doesn't feel that way now. Apparently the population in the City of Fresno has jumped from 217,000 in 1980 to about 500,000 today.
Wow what's amazing here is that Fresno city proper is the largest city in the Central Valley and its technically bigger than Sacramento though.
I would have guessed Sacramento City proper though as the central valleys largest city though until I looked at population list though for Sacramento city and Sacramento county though.
Its pretty interesting, you definitely wouldn't know Fresno was that large from CA 99 as most of the growth has been northward and eastward. Sacramento as a metro area has way more sprawl, especially along I-80. There will probably come a time when the Fresno Area connects to Sanger but I don't see that being particularly quick given how little the farm community tends to sell their land to developers.
Although incorporated Sacramento is somewhat smaller in population than incorporated Fresno, it seems considerably larger because it segues seamlessly into the multitude of other cities immediately surrounding it: Citrus Heights, Orangevale, Rancho Cordova, Elk Grove, etc. Fresno's got Clovis and maybe Sanger (which is actually more of an
exurb than a
suburb) and some unincorporated communities surrounding it -- but it transitions into agricultural lands -- particularly to the west -- more quickly than does Sacramento. The reticence of large agricultural businesses to give up their land for added housing, as Max cites above, is part and parcel of that; most of the development in and around Fresno has occurred northeast and east (the ag lands to the west and the San Joaquin River to the north comprise "natural" barriers to mass development there. Also -- the fact that the Sacramento area transitions to rolling hills to the east rather than 25-30 miles of valley flatlands as seen further south has inhibited agricultural development in that area -- for better or worse, it's more suitable for housing. The center of agriculture is well south of the urban areas or across the Sacramento River in Yolo County; the southeast side of Sacramento is dominated by industry, a large portion of which is food processing. Contrast this to Fresno; where just outside the urbanized area are vast tracts of grapes and citrus -- the reason the area developed over a century ago in the first place.
Quote from: sparker on February 19, 2019, 05:10:10 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2019, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: bing101 on February 19, 2019, 08:20:20 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 07, 2018, 11:35:23 PM
The Fresno Metro Area was around 973,000 the last time I looked. Certainly wouldn't have thought that moving here, certainly doesn't feel that way now. Apparently the population in the City of Fresno has jumped from 217,000 in 1980 to about 500,000 today.
Wow what's amazing here is that Fresno city proper is the largest city in the Central Valley and its technically bigger than Sacramento though.
I would have guessed Sacramento City proper though as the central valleys largest city though until I looked at population list though for Sacramento city and Sacramento county though.
Its pretty interesting, you definitely wouldn't know Fresno was that large from CA 99 as most of the growth has been northward and eastward. Sacramento as a metro area has way more sprawl, especially along I-80. There will probably come a time when the Fresno Area connects to Sanger but I don't see that being particularly quick given how little the farm community tends to sell their land to developers.
Although incorporated Sacramento is somewhat smaller in population than incorporated Fresno, it seems considerably larger because it segues seamlessly into the multitude of other cities immediately surrounding it: Citrus Heights, Orangevale, Rancho Cordova, Elk Grove, etc. Fresno's got Clovis and maybe Sanger (which is actually more of an exurb than a suburb) and some unincorporated communities surrounding it -- but it transitions into agricultural lands -- particularly to the west -- more quickly than does Sacramento. The reticence of large agricultural businesses to give up their land for added housing, as Max cites above, is part and parcel of that; most of the development in and around Fresno has occurred northeast and east (the ag lands to the west and the San Joaquin River to the north comprise "natural" barriers to mass development there. Also -- the fact that the Sacramento area transitions to rolling hills to the east rather than 25-30 miles of valley flatlands as seen further south has inhibited agricultural development in that area -- for better or worse, it's more suitable for housing. The center of agriculture is well south of the urban areas or across the Sacramento River in Yolo County; the southeast side of Sacramento is dominated by industry, a large portion of which is food processing. Contrast this to Fresno; where just outside the urbanized area are vast tracts of grapes and citrus -- the reason the area developed over a century ago in the first place.
Also with Sacramento area you also have to include some areas like Solano County, CA where you see sprawl from Vacaville, Dixon and Fairfield where these areas are dealing with the suburban/exurban sprawl on the southwest side of the Sacramento Valley and this area has to deal with Bay Area and Sacramento commuters at the same time over affordable housing this may be a factor why Sacramento looks larger than Fresno though.
As far as I know Fresno tends to be known for truck traffic for agricultural goods on CA-99 though.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/jan/28/where-world-newest-cities-look-same (https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/jan/28/where-world-newest-cities-look-same)
An article on Newest Major cities. China, India and Sub-Saharan Africa were in the running for newest major cities though at the time the article was posted.
I'm gonna go with Huntsville, AL, and Northwest Arkansas.
Quote from: bing101 on February 19, 2019, 05:46:23 PM
Quote from: sparker on February 19, 2019, 05:10:10 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2019, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: bing101 on February 19, 2019, 08:20:20 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 07, 2018, 11:35:23 PM
The Fresno Metro Area was around 973,000 the last time I looked. Certainly wouldn't have thought that moving here, certainly doesn't feel that way now. Apparently the population in the City of Fresno has jumped from 217,000 in 1980 to about 500,000 today.
Wow what's amazing here is that Fresno city proper is the largest city in the Central Valley and its technically bigger than Sacramento though.
I would have guessed Sacramento City proper though as the central valleys largest city though until I looked at population list though for Sacramento city and Sacramento county though.
Its pretty interesting, you definitely wouldn't know Fresno was that large from CA 99 as most of the growth has been northward and eastward. Sacramento as a metro area has way more sprawl, especially along I-80. There will probably come a time when the Fresno Area connects to Sanger but I don't see that being particularly quick given how little the farm community tends to sell their land to developers.
Although incorporated Sacramento is somewhat smaller in population than incorporated Fresno, it seems considerably larger because it segues seamlessly into the multitude of other cities immediately surrounding it: Citrus Heights, Orangevale, Rancho Cordova, Elk Grove, etc. Fresno's got Clovis and maybe Sanger (which is actually more of an exurb than a suburb) and some unincorporated communities surrounding it -- but it transitions into agricultural lands -- particularly to the west -- more quickly than does Sacramento. The reticence of large agricultural businesses to give up their land for added housing, as Max cites above, is part and parcel of that; most of the development in and around Fresno has occurred northeast and east (the ag lands to the west and the San Joaquin River to the north comprise "natural" barriers to mass development there. Also -- the fact that the Sacramento area transitions to rolling hills to the east rather than 25-30 miles of valley flatlands as seen further south has inhibited agricultural development in that area -- for better or worse, it's more suitable for housing. The center of agriculture is well south of the urban areas or across the Sacramento River in Yolo County; the southeast side of Sacramento is dominated by industry, a large portion of which is food processing. Contrast this to Fresno; where just outside the urbanized area are vast tracts of grapes and citrus -- the reason the area developed over a century ago in the first place.
Also with Sacramento area you also have to include some areas like Solano County, CA where you see sprawl from Vacaville, Dixon and Fairfield where these areas are dealing with the suburban/exurban sprawl on the southwest side of the Sacramento Valley and this area has to deal with Bay Area and Sacramento commuters at the same time over affordable housing this may be a factor why Sacramento looks larger than Fresno though.
As far as I know Fresno tends to be known for truck traffic for agricultural goods on CA-99 though.
I'm going to venture that within 25-30 years there will be a circular area of dense population extending along I-680 from Benicia to Fairfield, I-80 to Sacramento, I-5/CA 99 south via Galt, Lodi, and Stockton to roughly Manteca/Ripon, then west through Tracy and then NW via Mountain House to Discovery Bay and Brentwood, where it connects to existing East Bay suburbia. The only break will be the Yolo Bypass (and its southern ship channel extension) and possibly the Consumnes River floodplain between Elk Grove and Galt. The rest will be interwoven suburbs with crossing traffic serving the Bay Area, Sacramento, and the Stockton/Modesto metro region. Now whether it'll be a "well oiled machine" is yet to be determined!
Quote from: golden eagle on June 18, 2019, 11:13:38 PM
I'm gonna go with Huntsville, AL, and Northwest Arkansas.
Looks like someone did their math! I'm gonna add Fort Wayne IN to the mix.
I am going for the Pearl Delta in China because its been mentioned to form a mega city. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc4JmEMRHgA)
It's already a major city, but the city I could see becoming a super-city (ala LA, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc) is Atlanta
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on November 27, 2019, 12:16:35 AM
It's already a major city, but the city I could see becoming a super-city (ala LA, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc) is Atlanta
That's a city I have genuinely never understood why it has so much appeal. Is the city giving companies tax incentives to move to Atlanta? It might be the most boring major U.S. City that I've been to.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 12:34:18 AM
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on November 27, 2019, 12:16:35 AM
It's already a major city, but the city I could see becoming a super-city (ala LA, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc) is Atlanta
That's a city I have genuinely never understood why it has so much appeal. Is the city giving companies tax incentives to move to Atlanta? It might be the most boring major U.S. City that I've been to.
It's not even that populated only about 500,000 in an area pretty close to what Detroit and Philly are in area. All the population is in the suburbs. I never understood the appeal there either. I found Houston to be a boring city too but I had more fun in Houston than Atlanta.
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:15:33 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 12:34:18 AM
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on November 27, 2019, 12:16:35 AM
It's already a major city, but the city I could see becoming a super-city (ala LA, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc) is Atlanta
That's a city I have genuinely never understood why it has so much appeal. Is the city giving companies tax incentives to move to Atlanta? It might be the most boring major U.S. City that I've been to.
It's not even that populated only about 500,000 in an area pretty close to what Detroit and Philly are in area. All the population is in the suburbs. I never understood the appeal there either. I found Houston to be a boring city too but I had more fun in Houston than Atlanta.
Dallas kind of falls into said category of non-descriptiveness. Maybe I just don't get the fixation on modern suburban/urban sprawl based living? At least in Florida the core city of the big metro areas; Tampa, Orlando and Miami had some uniqueness to them. I actually really enjoyed places like downtown Orlando and Ybor City because they were different but yet had something heritage wise that gave the overall city a pulse.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:21:10 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:15:33 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 12:34:18 AM
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on November 27, 2019, 12:16:35 AM
It's already a major city, but the city I could see becoming a super-city (ala LA, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc) is Atlanta
That's a city I have genuinely never understood why it has so much appeal. Is the city giving companies tax incentives to move to Atlanta? It might be the most boring major U.S. City that I've been to.
It's not even that populated only about 500,000 in an area pretty close to what Detroit and Philly are in area. All the population is in the suburbs. I never understood the appeal there either. I found Houston to be a boring city too but I had more fun in Houston than Atlanta.
Dallas kind of falls into said category of non-descriptiveness. Maybe I just don't get the fixation on modern suburban/urban sprawl based living? At least in Florida the core city of the big metro areas; Tampa, Orlando and Miami had some uniqueness to them. I actually really enjoyed places like downtown Orlando and Ybor City because they were different but yet had something heritage wise that gave the overall city a pulse.
I stayed in Ybor City when I was in Tampa in 2008. I thought it was unique and kind of liked it. I remember an arcade type mall there and riding a train. I walked the whole area.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:21:10 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:15:33 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 12:34:18 AM
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on November 27, 2019, 12:16:35 AM
It's already a major city, but the city I could see becoming a super-city (ala LA, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc) is Atlanta
That's a city I have genuinely never understood why it has so much appeal. Is the city giving companies tax incentives to move to Atlanta? It might be the most boring major U.S. City that I've been to.
It's not even that populated only about 500,000 in an area pretty close to what Detroit and Philly are in area. All the population is in the suburbs. I never understood the appeal there either. I found Houston to be a boring city too but I had more fun in Houston than Atlanta.
Dallas kind of falls into said category of non-descriptiveness. Maybe I just don't get the fixation on modern suburban/urban sprawl based living? At least in Florida the core city of the big metro areas; Tampa, Orlando and Miami had some uniqueness to them. I actually really enjoyed places like downtown Orlando and Ybor City because they were different but yet had something heritage wise that gave the overall city a pulse.
Oh I forgot to comment on Dallas. It seemed like Houston a little bit. I found downtown Dallas to be more unique than downtown Houston. In Houston midtown and uptown seemed more interesting. I found the areas south of the 610 loop to be very boring along with gallena park on the east side. Sunnyside was probably the worst part of Houston I was in although my friend i was with had a cousin that lived in garden city off Montgomery that place looked like the projects.
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:25:13 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:21:10 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:15:33 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 12:34:18 AM
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on November 27, 2019, 12:16:35 AM
It's already a major city, but the city I could see becoming a super-city (ala LA, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc) is Atlanta
That's a city I have genuinely never understood why it has so much appeal. Is the city giving companies tax incentives to move to Atlanta? It might be the most boring major U.S. City that I've been to.
It's not even that populated only about 500,000 in an area pretty close to what Detroit and Philly are in area. All the population is in the suburbs. I never understood the appeal there either. I found Houston to be a boring city too but I had more fun in Houston than Atlanta.
Dallas kind of falls into said category of non-descriptiveness. Maybe I just don't get the fixation on modern suburban/urban sprawl based living? At least in Florida the core city of the big metro areas; Tampa, Orlando and Miami had some uniqueness to them. I actually really enjoyed places like downtown Orlando and Ybor City because they were different but yet had something heritage wise that gave the overall city a pulse.
I stayed in Ybor City when I was in Tampa in 2008. I thought it was unique and kind of liked it. I remember an arcade type mall there and riding a train. I walked the whole area.
It always reminded me of a Main Street in a Gold Rush town in California way more than way you usually expect in Florida. It definitely breaks up the mundane blandness of modern building designs. With Dallas and Houston I really couldn't find anything unique I couldn't find other modern cities. At least San Antonio has a lot of history to offer even though it is kind cliche at this point. El Paso has some decent hiking opportunities that elevate it up the charts as well in my book. Las Cruces is the big up and coming city on the New Mexico side, that is a really nice place to go if you like National Monuments nearby.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:25:13 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:21:10 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:15:33 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 12:34:18 AM
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on November 27, 2019, 12:16:35 AM
It's already a major city, but the city I could see becoming a super-city (ala LA, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc) is Atlanta
That's a city I have genuinely never understood why it has so much appeal. Is the city giving companies tax incentives to move to Atlanta? It might be the most boring major U.S. City that I've been to.
It's not even that populated only about 500,000 in an area pretty close to what Detroit and Philly are in area. All the population is in the suburbs. I never understood the appeal there either. I found Houston to be a boring city too but I had more fun in Houston than Atlanta.
Dallas kind of falls into said category of non-descriptiveness. Maybe I just don't get the fixation on modern suburban/urban sprawl based living? At least in Florida the core city of the big metro areas; Tampa, Orlando and Miami had some uniqueness to them. I actually really enjoyed places like downtown Orlando and Ybor City because they were different but yet had something heritage wise that gave the overall city a pulse.
I stayed in Ybor City when I was in Tampa in 2008. I thought it was unique and kind of liked it. I remember an arcade type mall there and riding a train. I walked the whole area.
It always reminded me of a Main Street in a Gold Rush town in California way more than way you usually expect in Florida. It definitely breaks up the mundane blandness of modern building designs. With Dallas and Houston I really couldn't find anything unique I couldn't find other modern cities. At least San Antonio has a lot of history to offer even though it is kind cliche at this point. El Paso has some decent hiking opportunities that elevate it up the charts as well in my book. Las Cruces is the big up and coming city on the New Mexico side, that is a really nice place to go if you like National Monuments nearby.
I liked that about it. I thought it was like an old western movie. San Antonio is the only mega city I haven't been to in Texas unless you want to count El Paso but I consider that more of a large city than a mega city.
When I went to Austin I never went downtown, stayed on the edge of town and spent the night in Bastrop. That was kind of boring.
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:42:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:25:13 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:21:10 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:15:33 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 12:34:18 AM
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on November 27, 2019, 12:16:35 AM
It's already a major city, but the city I could see becoming a super-city (ala LA, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc) is Atlanta
That's a city I have genuinely never understood why it has so much appeal. Is the city giving companies tax incentives to move to Atlanta? It might be the most boring major U.S. City that I've been to.
It's not even that populated only about 500,000 in an area pretty close to what Detroit and Philly are in area. All the population is in the suburbs. I never understood the appeal there either. I found Houston to be a boring city too but I had more fun in Houston than Atlanta.
Dallas kind of falls into said category of non-descriptiveness. Maybe I just don't get the fixation on modern suburban/urban sprawl based living? At least in Florida the core city of the big metro areas; Tampa, Orlando and Miami had some uniqueness to them. I actually really enjoyed places like downtown Orlando and Ybor City because they were different but yet had something heritage wise that gave the overall city a pulse.
I stayed in Ybor City when I was in Tampa in 2008. I thought it was unique and kind of liked it. I remember an arcade type mall there and riding a train. I walked the whole area.
It always reminded me of a Main Street in a Gold Rush town in California way more than way you usually expect in Florida. It definitely breaks up the mundane blandness of modern building designs. With Dallas and Houston I really couldn't find anything unique I couldn't find other modern cities. At least San Antonio has a lot of history to offer even though it is kind cliche at this point. El Paso has some decent hiking opportunities that elevate it up the charts as well in my book. Las Cruces is the big up and coming city on the New Mexico side, that is a really nice place to go if you like National Monuments nearby.
I liked that about it. I thought it was like an old western movie. San Antonio is the only mega city I haven't been to in Texas unless you want to count El Paso but I consider that more of a large city than a mega city.
When I went to Austin I never went downtown, stayed on the edge of town and spent the night in Bastrop. That was kind of boring.
Austin has more of a pulse but it's still edging towards being more a modern hipster crowd type thing. I thought it was an okay visit the last time I was there but not quite the rave worthy destination it gets touted as. On the whole for as much hype Texas tends to get it really isn't all that exciting of a state unless you are really willing to get off the grid in the western mountain ranges.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:47:41 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:42:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:25:13 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:21:10 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:15:33 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 12:34:18 AM
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on November 27, 2019, 12:16:35 AM
It's already a major city, but the city I could see becoming a super-city (ala LA, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc) is Atlanta
That's a city I have genuinely never understood why it has so much appeal. Is the city giving companies tax incentives to move to Atlanta? It might be the most boring major U.S. City that I've been to.
It's not even that populated only about 500,000 in an area pretty close to what Detroit and Philly are in area. All the population is in the suburbs. I never understood the appeal there either. I found Houston to be a boring city too but I had more fun in Houston than Atlanta.
Dallas kind of falls into said category of non-descriptiveness. Maybe I just don't get the fixation on modern suburban/urban sprawl based living? At least in Florida the core city of the big metro areas; Tampa, Orlando and Miami had some uniqueness to them. I actually really enjoyed places like downtown Orlando and Ybor City because they were different but yet had something heritage wise that gave the overall city a pulse.
I stayed in Ybor City when I was in Tampa in 2008. I thought it was unique and kind of liked it. I remember an arcade type mall there and riding a train. I walked the whole area.
It always reminded me of a Main Street in a Gold Rush town in California way more than way you usually expect in Florida. It definitely breaks up the mundane blandness of modern building designs. With Dallas and Houston I really couldn't find anything unique I couldn't find other modern cities. At least San Antonio has a lot of history to offer even though it is kind cliche at this point. El Paso has some decent hiking opportunities that elevate it up the charts as well in my book. Las Cruces is the big up and coming city on the New Mexico side, that is a really nice place to go if you like National Monuments nearby.
I liked that about it. I thought it was like an old western movie. San Antonio is the only mega city I haven't been to in Texas unless you want to count El Paso but I consider that more of a large city than a mega city.
When I went to Austin I never went downtown, stayed on the edge of town and spent the night in Bastrop. That was kind of boring.
Austin has more of a pulse but it's still edging towards being more a modern hipster crowd type thing. I thought it was an okay visit the last time I was there but not quite the rave worthy destination it gets touted as. On the whole for as much hype Texas tends to get it really isn't all that exciting of a state unless you are really willing to get off the grid in the western mountain ranges.
I think for me most of it was making the mistake of staying in Bastrop. I like staying downtown and on Houston I stayed at a holiday inn downtown but still had to drive most places. The Toyota Center was a block away so I went to a Rockets game while I was there.
One thing I remember from my Houston trip could have happened anywhere. My friend I was with likes to drink and was pretty wasted at 5 in the morning but I was sober and hungry so I told him the next restaurant I see open I'm stopping. So up comes a Waffle House and I thought sweet I'll just get a cheese steak omelette so we go in and sit at the counter and the server asks both of us what we want to drink I said I just want a water and my friend says I'll have a cranberry vodka I just started laughing and the server says we dont serve that here sir and my friend says well in that case I'll just have a water.
Quote from: Rothman on November 28, 2018, 01:24:10 PM
Drank two tablespoons of Mountain Dew on a late night drive down to Tennessee for the eclipse and that's all I needed to be safe.
As my father says, keep your exposure low and you keep the required dose low. :D
Sorry it's a year later, but, that just reminded me of a Hunter S. Thompson story:
Quote
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the two tablespoons of Mountain Dew began to take hold.
Are we just talking about the US? Harare, Rwanda, and Panama City, Panama are two cities outside of the US in developing countries.
Quote from: Tonytone on November 25, 2018, 11:11:56 PM
Wilmington, De. It is being reinvented & new companies are moving in.
iPhone
I was really surprised to see that Wilmington only has 70,000 in population I thought it would be around 130,000 or so. Is it because there is a lot of developed unincorporated land around it?
Quote from: dvferyance on December 02, 2019, 01:44:32 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 25, 2018, 11:11:56 PM
Wilmington, De. It is being reinvented & new companies are moving in.
iPhone
I was really surprised to see that Wilmington only has 70,000 in population I thought it would be around 130,000 or so. Is it because there is a lot of developed unincorporated land around it?
Between heavy crime for years, no development in the city & the event in the 1960's (National guard was in the city for a year) that caused the city it self to decline is the reason why the current population is @70,000. Also the city not having enough power back in the day to annex areas around the city.
iPhone
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:42:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:25:13 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:21:10 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 27, 2019, 08:15:33 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 12:34:18 AM
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on November 27, 2019, 12:16:35 AM
It's already a major city, but the city I could see becoming a super-city (ala LA, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc) is Atlanta
That's a city I have genuinely never understood why it has so much appeal. Is the city giving companies tax incentives to move to Atlanta? It might be the most boring major U.S. City that I've been to.
It's not even that populated only about 500,000 in an area pretty close to what Detroit and Philly are in area. All the population is in the suburbs. I never understood the appeal there either. I found Houston to be a boring city too but I had more fun in Houston than Atlanta.
Dallas kind of falls into said category of non-descriptiveness. Maybe I just don't get the fixation on modern suburban/urban sprawl based living? At least in Florida the core city of the big metro areas; Tampa, Orlando and Miami had some uniqueness to them. I actually really enjoyed places like downtown Orlando and Ybor City because they were different but yet had something heritage wise that gave the overall city a pulse.
I stayed in Ybor City when I was in Tampa in 2008. I thought it was unique and kind of liked it. I remember an arcade type mall there and riding a train. I walked the whole area.
It always reminded me of a Main Street in a Gold Rush town in California way more than way you usually expect in Florida. It definitely breaks up the mundane blandness of modern building designs. With Dallas and Houston I really couldn't find anything unique I couldn't find other modern cities. At least San Antonio has a lot of history to offer even though it is kind cliche at this point. El Paso has some decent hiking opportunities that elevate it up the charts as well in my book. Las Cruces is the big up and coming city on the New Mexico side, that is a really nice place to go if you like National Monuments nearby.
I liked that about it. I thought it was like an old western movie. San Antonio is the only mega city I haven't been to in Texas unless you want to count El Paso but I consider that more of a large city than a mega city.
When I went to Austin I never went downtown, stayed on the edge of town and spent the night in Bastrop. That was kind of boring.
San Antonio is hardly a mega city. It's the easiest large city to drive in the whole state. (As long as you avoid 281 North.)
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:33:08 PM
Las Cruces is the big up and coming city on the New Mexico side, that is a really nice place to go if you like National Monuments nearby.
And they've got New Mexico State, which features their very unique chili pepper development program (the now-famous Hatch Valley peppers emerged from that program). For some odd reason they never really got into the race to hybridize the hottest pepper available -- for that, you had to head east to South Carolina (the infamous Carolina Reaper!). Fun stuff!
Quote from: sparker on December 05, 2019, 06:32:02 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:33:08 PM
Las Cruces is the big up and coming city on the New Mexico side, that is a really nice place to go if you like National Monuments nearby.
And they've got New Mexico State, which features their very unique chili pepper development program (the now-famous Hatch Valley peppers emerged from that program). For some odd reason they never really got into the race to hybridize the hottest pepper available -- for that, you had to head east to South Carolina (the infamous Carolina Reaper!). Fun stuff!
I would usually stop in Hatch for chili peppers whenever work travel brought me to to T or C. Suffice to say stopping in Hatch made taking NM 26 even more worthwhile as a Las Cruces Bypass.
Quote from: sparker on December 05, 2019, 06:32:02 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:33:08 PM
Las Cruces is the big up and coming city on the New Mexico side, that is a really nice place to go if you like National Monuments nearby.
And they've got New Mexico State, which features their very unique chili pepper development program (the now-famous Hatch Valley peppers emerged from that program). For some odd reason they never really got into the race to hybridize the hottest pepper available -- for that, you had to head east to South Carolina (the infamous Carolina Reaper!). Fun stuff!
Las Cruces has a bad economy. Government and retail. That's it. If you can't get a Government Job, it's Wal-Mart for you. There are three Super Wal Marts and a Neighborhood Wal Mart. About saturated the market. Two Albertson's survive, however. All the big boxes are now here, due to well heeled West Coasters retiring here. Very few have actually started businesses that hire people and pay a good wage though. A good number of galleries and boutiques in Mesilla for them.
Quote from: DJStephens on December 06, 2019, 11:48:13 PM
Quote from: sparker on December 05, 2019, 06:32:02 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2019, 08:33:08 PM
Las Cruces is the big up and coming city on the New Mexico side, that is a really nice place to go if you like National Monuments nearby.
And they've got New Mexico State, which features their very unique chili pepper development program (the now-famous Hatch Valley peppers emerged from that program). For some odd reason they never really got into the race to hybridize the hottest pepper available -- for that, you had to head east to South Carolina (the infamous Carolina Reaper!). Fun stuff!
Las Cruces has a bad economy. Government and retail. That's it. If you can't get a Government Job, it's Wal-Mart for you. There are three Super Wal Marts and a Neighborhood Wal Mart. About saturated the market. Two Albertson's survive, however. All the big boxes are now here, due to well heeled West Coasters retiring here. Very few have actually started businesses that hire people and pay a good wage though. A good number of galleries and boutiques in Mesilla for them.
Since greater El Paso region development out from that city's core seems to be concentrated on I-10 NW through Anthony and Mesquite to Las Cruces and environs, it would seem inevitable that Las Cruces would be a secondary regional hub; the university and nearby DOD installations have and will continue to provide a significant potion of the regional employment (that must be the "government" employment sector cited above). But it's likely that with time EP and LC will grow together like pretty much all such configurations in the West -- and unless protracted "turf wars" slow this process down (when 2 states are involved, such things invariably tend to crop up and create issues), eventually one will come into greater El Paso on I-10 from the southeast and pass generally uninterrupted commercial and residential development until well after the US 70 "merge" west of Las Cruces. So LC
will develop -- and might well witness some form of "boom" -- but not as an isolated entity, rather as part of larger-scale regional growth.
There is about twenty five miles between the southern edge of las Cruces (Exit 144, I-10) and I-10 in Texas, MP 5, the northern edge of El Paso. Between that is mainly agricultural uses - diary, pecans and some truck vegetables - corn, onions, alfalfa, hay, etc. Simply cannot see complete fill in of that distance ever occurring.
No job base to support that kind of population increase. Government is just about maxed out, it does employ close to 40-45-50% of all FT Mon-Fri employment in Dona Ana county. Federal - NASA, WSMR (have been slowly drawing down over time) Border Patrol, Post Office. State - University, transportation department, Game & Fish, Dept of Labor, and multiple others scattered about. City and County. The schools. Seems endless. Crony/patronage/spoils system readily apparent.
All of the major big boxes are now represented here - Three super Wal Marts, Lowes, Target, Khols, Home depot, Dillards, Sears (which just closed btw). They don't pay worth a darn, and favoritism is rampant. Actually the stores here are quite spoiled - they have an unlimited supply of college students and wealthy pensioners to draw from. Those type of employees don't even need or want full time anyway. If you don't like your $11/12 hour, you can just leave. Contrast that with the Oil Patch (Carlsbad, Hobbs, Odessa/Midland) where the big boxes have to pay $15/hour to START just to get anyone with even a pulse.
Bad planning. Both El Paso and Dona Ana county have a reactive approach, rather than a proactive approach to planning, land use decision making, and zoning. Tex-dot has indeed poured a great deal into El Paso county in recent years, but much of it seems piece-meal and haphazard. The Go-10 project (what a joke) with it's half billion west side toll road is simply overwrought. Instead of fixing, widening, and straightening I-10 itself. Spur 601 and it's terrible connection to Loop 375 with horrible DDI. Piecemeal interchange replacements on I-10 itself, which did not fix longstanding geometric problems and deficiencies. Nor was thought given to future needed capacity increases via bridge deck widenings and clearance improvements. These include Anthony (Exit 0) Vinton (Exit 2) Woodrow Bean Transmountain (Exit 6) Artcraft (Exit 8) Redd Rd (Exit 9) Raynolds (Exit 22) Zaragosa (Exit 32).
Dona Ana county struggles with E-W arterials across the valley floor, and has not provided for such as the area has grown over the decades. Only ONE grade separation for the NS railroad exists, and that is Interstate 10, which was carried over the railroad in 1971-72. The city of Las Cruces has tripled in size population wise since then, as well as doubling in land area. No improved US 70 corridor across the N side of town was ever established, it could have been done easily in the late sixties to well into the eighties. Instead a mixture of reasonably acceptable and design regressive improvements were implemented onto the 70 corridor East of I-25 during the Johnson/Rahn administration in the late nineties/early 00's.