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Regional Boards => Central States => Topic started by: Plutonic Panda on May 04, 2022, 06:01:40 PM

Title: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: Plutonic Panda on May 04, 2022, 06:01:40 PM
A new bridge will be built to replace the New Chain of Rocks Bridge and public meetings will be held.

Quote
ST. LOUIS Ė IDOT will host an open house meeting Wednesday detailing the plan to replace the Chain of Rocks Bridge between north St. Louis and Madison County, Illinois.

The project calls for two new twin bridges to be built side by side replacing the current Chain of Rocks Bridge that was built in 1966. It is now approaching the end of its lifespan. IDOT said as the bridge has gotten older, more repairs have become necessary, and the roadway geometrics are now sub-standard. Traffic has also increased significantly from just under 20,000 vehicles per day in 1975 to over 51,000 vehicles per day.

https://fox2now.com/news/public-meeting-on-plan-to-replace-chain-of-rocks-bridge/?fbclid=IwAR18JfF8lrJEk5YO3c09hY2iBRcn8wm8l6NqcCWEoiAZ6KVWWbULvIFjHTo

Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: LilianaUwU on May 04, 2022, 06:08:16 PM
Will the replacement be called New New Chain of Rocks Bridge?  :bigass:
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: Plutonic Panda on May 04, 2022, 06:32:48 PM
Will the replacement be called New New Chain of Rocks Bridge?  :bigass:
The Slightly Newer New Chain of Rocks Bridge.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: Rothman on May 04, 2022, 06:36:36 PM
Chain of Rocks Bridge '26
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: rte66man on May 04, 2022, 06:51:33 PM
Chain of Rocks Bridge '26

++1
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on May 04, 2022, 07:39:45 PM
Chain, chain, chain......chain of fools bridge.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: ilpt4u on May 04, 2022, 09:04:02 PM
Will the replacement be called New New Chain of Rocks Bridge?  :bigass:
Chain of Rocks Bridge 3.0
3G Chain of Rocks Bridge
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: will_e_777 on May 04, 2022, 11:02:15 PM
Will the replacement be called New New Chain of Rocks Bridge?  :bigass:
Chain of Rocks 2: Electric Boogaloo
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: Rothman on May 04, 2022, 11:11:17 PM
Chain of Rocks Harder
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: kphoger on May 05, 2022, 09:26:59 AM
Chain of Reboots Bridge
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: FrCorySticha on May 06, 2022, 12:07:52 AM
Chains of Love Bridge
Chain of Rock Lobster Bridge
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: Fredddie on May 08, 2022, 11:49:29 AM
2 Chains 2 Rockious
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: Sani on May 08, 2022, 03:36:40 PM
Chain of Rocks 3... This time, it's personal.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: Hobart on May 09, 2022, 12:15:23 AM
They should make this one a historic bike trail too. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: US71 on May 16, 2022, 08:06:16 PM
http://bridgehunter.com/il/madison/bh36589/
If this is the bridge(s) in question, let them go, IMO, but make the replacements less generic looking.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: edwaleni on May 17, 2022, 02:16:53 PM
Here is what it will look like.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52080577101_689a0c40d7_h.jpg)
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: edwaleni on May 18, 2022, 10:41:31 AM
http://bridgehunter.com/il/madison/bh36589/
If this is the bridge(s) in question, let them go, IMO, but make the replacements less generic looking.

Based on the plans laid out above, it will be just as generic as the current bridge.

The only remarkable difference I can find are:

- Less supporting pylons in total for the same distance
- Wider bridge in each direction allows for safety and shoulders.

As noted in the design, the new EB bridge will be built and split with a jersey barrier for 2 way traffic while the old span is demolished and the WB built in its place.

Since the current bridge has no shoulders and rails almost against the lane stripe today, the only thing will be the reduced speeds in the construction zone. Probably 45-50mph.

It appears for "glorious looking designs" IDOT tends to use them in city centers or for some of the smaller towns along the Mississippi. The Illinois River, less so.

This one is will be 100% utilitarian all the way with no embellishments.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: kphoger on May 18, 2022, 10:48:00 AM
- Wider bridge in each direction allows for safety and shoulders.

... the current bridge has no shoulders and rails almost against the lane stripe today ...

And that's the worst thing about the existing bridge.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: edwaleni on May 18, 2022, 09:33:45 PM
- Wider bridge in each direction allows for safety and shoulders.

... the current bridge has no shoulders and rails almost against the lane stripe today ...

And that's the worst thing about the existing bridge.

What is scary for me is that I have lived long enough now to see the full lifespan of the current bridge. I remember getting diverted from I-70 to then US-40 (Chain of Rocks Road) on the Illinois side while the lawsuit from the City of Madison progressed.  Then we would come off, turn right onto Riverview Drive for a half mile to exit back onto I-270. My dad and uncle used to grouse constantly about that lawsuit, but preferred the old (original COR) bridge than the MacArthur Bridge which they thought was a death trap. My uncle really got upset when just before they suspended the tolls, all of these perfectly lit Schlitz Beer signs popped up everywhere on the bridge. At the entrances, another one at the bend. He thought it was inconsistent to be advertising a beer when drunk driving awareness was just getting started. I don't think he made the connection with advertising on the bridge and the loss of tolls.

What I can't figure out is when the current COR bridge was built (1966), the old one was already 37 years old.  Built in 1929 by the City of Madison for $3M (approx $50M in 2022 dollars), municipal bonds were going at 4.2% just before the Crash. So the toll revenue couldn't pay off those bonds after 30+ years? especially in the 50's and early 60's when traffic was at its peak? My uncle, always the conspiracy guy, was convinced that the City of Madison was skimming the toll revenue and only paying the interest on the bonds. He was pretty sure that Madison was corrupt because he actually went to city hall and complained about the Schlitz signs and they told him to mind his own business.  He noted that other than paying the toll collectors, they did near zero maintenance on the bridge itself.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: SkyPesos on May 18, 2022, 09:42:46 PM
It appears for "glorious looking designs" IDOT tends to use them in city centers or for some of the smaller towns along the Mississippi. The Illinois River, less so.
The St Louis area Mississippi River bridges are all IDOT projects. I didnít know that, thought they were split between MoDOT and IDOT. Not that MoDOT is that much better building nicer looking bridges (*cough* new I-70 western and US 40/61 MO river bridges).

Then thereís the Clark Bridge on US 67; a cable stayed bridge even further out from St Louis.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: Revive 755 on May 18, 2022, 10:24:09 PM
^ I think the "nicer looking" bridges come about more due to the necessary span length for navigation than any aesthetic desires.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: ilpt4u on May 18, 2022, 10:28:32 PM
^ I think the "nicer looking" bridges come about more due to the necessary span length for navigation than any aesthetic desires.
Donít have to worry about that at the Chain of Rocks Bridges location, as the Chain of Rocks Canal, with Lock 27, is the navigational channel here
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: edwaleni on May 18, 2022, 10:44:44 PM
The original I-270 bridge over the COR Canal was a dual cantilever span:

(https://bridgehunter.com/photos/10/23/102343-M.jpg)

(https://bridgehunter.com/photos/10/23/102346-M.jpg)

IDOT really let it go to seed and was pretty close to crumbling until they got a new box steel span built in the the 1990's.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: edwaleni on May 19, 2022, 11:56:52 AM
Here is the COR Canal span today.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52084650126_11d5fcca03_h.jpg)

This is (IMHO) will be something close to what the I-80 Des Plaines River Bridge replacement will probably look like.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: wdcrft63 on May 19, 2022, 06:30:53 PM
^ I think the "nicer looking" bridges come about more due to the necessary span length for navigation than any aesthetic desires.
Correct. Since the river is not navigable at COR, there wasn't a chance for anything other than a generic bridge.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: Rothman on May 19, 2022, 06:38:35 PM
^ I think the "nicer looking" bridges come about more due to the necessary span length for navigation than any aesthetic desires.
Correct. Since the river is not navigable at COR, there wasn't a chance for anything other than a generic bridge.
Hm.  I'm thinking ACOE would deem the river navigable at that point.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: Revive 755 on May 19, 2022, 10:14:40 PM
^ If the main channel was navigable, there wouldn't be a canal bypassing it to the east.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: Rothman on May 19, 2022, 11:15:00 PM
^ If the main channel was navigable, there wouldn't be a canal bypassing it to the east.
To the government, their standards for what is a navigable waterway are quite loose, since whatever is deemed navigable means jurisdiction can be obtained. 
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: edwaleni on May 19, 2022, 11:30:52 PM
For the history on the Chain of Rocks area of the Mississippi....

At one time it *was* navigable, but was very difficult and depending on the current and the season (spring or late fall) there were times it would close temporarily.

The "rocks" today are partially submerged due to a nearby dam providing enough backwater to flow into the canal north of the current bridge. In dry seasons, the rocks become more visible.

If it was never navigable, they wouldn't have built the original COR bridge so high and with the kink in the middle. (boats used to clear on the west side).

The current COR river bridge (1966) couldn't be built until the COR canal was complete. Which was built over time between 1947-1956.

The original canal bridge with I-270 was actually finished in 1963, but was not used for many years due to the delays in the new COR River bridge a few miles west.

Since the lawsuits by the City of Madison were holding up the new river bridge, IDOT couldn't open the canal bridge either.

That is why I-270 traffic was diverted at MP3.8 on the former US-40 for so many years. (May 1965 is when I-270 opened to that MP from I-55)

September 1, 1966 is when the current COR bridge finally opened. But not after many death threats and mysterious construction mishaps. No root cause for the mishaps was ever found, but they stopped after Missouri threatened to close the Missouri side on the older toll bridge. Madison was collecting around $50k a month in tolls until just a month before the new bridge opened. It was in their interest to delay the new bridge opening as long as possible.
Title: Re: Chain of Rocks Mississippi River Bridge Replacement
Post by: edwaleni on May 19, 2022, 11:46:35 PM
^ If the main channel was navigable, there wouldn't be a canal bypassing it to the east.
To the government, their standards for what is a navigable waterway are quite loose, since whatever is deemed navigable means jurisdiction can be obtained.

I won't go into it here, but a waterway I am familiar with was registered as navigable by the US government in 1890 (the 2 bordering states declared it navigable in 1835) but wasn't struck from the rolls until 1963.