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Author Topic: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City  (Read 27832 times)

rte66man

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #200 on: December 13, 2021, 09:36:44 PM »

A four level direct connect stack interchange would be sheer overkill for an I-44 interchange with a US highway bypass of a small town. Stack interchanges start out around the $300-$400 million cost range these days. The US-81 bypass will be upgrade-able to a divided Interstate quality freeway, but it's not going to be in that configuration initially. IIRC it will be a combination of limited access Super-2 and maybe some limited access divided 4-lane road. A cloverleaf interchange with I-44 is going to be good enough for that location.

You are correct. Limited access 4 lanes north of the southern end thru the I44 interchange to just past Country Club Road. Limited access 2 to the junction with US62, which will be a signalized intersection. Plans are to 4 lane the entire section and build a diamond interchange at US62 as funds allow.
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Alex

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #201 on: December 13, 2021, 10:14:17 PM »

This thread is not even covering I-240's potential extension anymore.

The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority is developing a 15-year plan for turnpike expansions and improvements. Paywalled story https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/12/08/proposed-oklahoma-highway-plan-to-add-small-town-connections/6413454001/

Among things considered - a connection between the Kickapoo and Kilpatrick Turnpikes S of OKC (!), 6-laning the rest of the Turner, and additional exits on existing turnpikes.

Paywall circumvention link: https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/12/08/proposed-oklahoma-highway-plan-to-add-small-town-connections/6413454001

Time to branch the topic and corresponding posts on the $5 billion/15 year Turnpike plan onto it's own thread.

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #202 on: December 15, 2021, 12:39:54 PM »

You'll have x46s soon enough.

What makes you so sure it's going to be I-46? If I were a gambler, I'd put money that it will be I-50. Springdale would love to say that it's on the junction of "I-49 and I-50".
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Scott5114

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #203 on: December 15, 2021, 01:00:23 PM »

You'll have x46s soon enough.

What makes you so sure it's going to be I-46? If I were a gambler, I'd put money that it will be I-50. Springdale would love to say that it's on the junction of "I-49 and I-50".



48 would equally make sense, but that'd set up an I-48/OK-48 intersection and I would hope someone would have the good sense to want to avoid that. As for 50, I would have no problem with that designation, but I don't think anyone at ODOT has the balls to ask for it.
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MikieTimT

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #204 on: December 16, 2021, 07:54:12 PM »

You'll have x46s soon enough.

What makes you so sure it's going to be I-46? If I were a gambler, I'd put money that it will be I-50. Springdale would love to say that it's on the junction of "I-49 and I-50".



48 would equally make sense, but that'd set up an I-48/OK-48 intersection and I would hope someone would have the good sense to want to avoid that. As for 50, I would have no problem with that designation, but I don't think anyone at ODOT has the balls to ask for it.

It'd be more likely to be requested on the AR side for the aforementioned reason even though most of the current Congressionally designated mileage is in OK.  It'd might be rejected by AASHTO given Arkansas' initial attempt to get I-49 north of I-40 designated back in '97, but since US-412's promotion got congressional backing and connects to interstates on both ends unlike I-49 back in those times, and since US-67 in AR got congressionally designated as Future I-57, who knows?  I-99 got pushed through by Congress, so anything's possible.  As there isn't a US-50 in OK, AR, and eventually TN(unlikely in our lifetimes, though), it makes more sense here than about anywhere else.
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ethanhopkin14

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #205 on: January 11, 2022, 09:26:31 AM »

You'll have x46s soon enough.

What makes you so sure it's going to be I-46? If I were a gambler, I'd put money that it will be I-50. Springdale would love to say that it's on the junction of "I-49 and I-50".



48 would equally make sense, but that'd set up an I-48/OK-48 intersection and I would hope someone would have the good sense to want to avoid that. As for 50, I would have no problem with that designation, but I don't think anyone at ODOT has the balls to ask for it.

It'd be more likely to be requested on the AR side for the aforementioned reason even though most of the current Congressionally designated mileage is in OK.  It'd might be rejected by AASHTO given Arkansas' initial attempt to get I-49 north of I-40 designated back in '97, but since US-412's promotion got congressional backing and connects to interstates on both ends unlike I-49 back in those times, and since US-67 in AR got congressionally designated as Future I-57, who knows?  I-99 got pushed through by Congress, so anything's possible.  As there isn't a US-50 in OK, AR, and eventually TN(unlikely in our lifetimes, though), it makes more sense here than about anywhere else.

Again, this map is not really how the grid works.  In a perfect world it would work like that, but this country isn't a perfect rectangle, and the interstates don't go in straight lines.  The grid is pretty much always changing.  Since its an east/west interstate, and on east/west interstate the mile posts begin in the west (making it so it technically "begins in the west), at that point it lies between I-44 and I-70.  That means all even numbers between those two numbers are fair game.  As long as it's a number greater than 44 and less than 70, we are good.  It doesn't have to fit exactly with the spokes of straight lines through the country.  If that were the case, all of I-29 is out of grid because it lies east of I-45 on a straight line.  The fact that I-45 stopped two states ago makes that point moot. 

It could be I-46 or it could be I-68.  I prefer I-50.

The fact that there is no I-50 or I-60 does irritate me. 
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Scott5114

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #206 on: January 11, 2022, 02:09:49 PM »

Let's be real. The grid actually doesn't work at all. This is just an attempt to put some rational thought behind the number.
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skluth

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #207 on: January 11, 2022, 02:35:41 PM »

You'll have x46s soon enough.

What makes you so sure it's going to be I-46? If I were a gambler, I'd put money that it will be I-50. Springdale would love to say that it's on the junction of "I-49 and I-50".

(image deleted for sanity's sake)
48 would equally make sense, but that'd set up an I-48/OK-48 intersection and I would hope someone would have the good sense to want to avoid that. As for 50, I would have no problem with that designation, but I don't think anyone at ODOT has the balls to ask for it.
It's no big deal for a state to renumber a highway to accommodate a new interstate. WI 142 was WI 43 before I-43 came to the state. CA 5 became CA 35. I like I-48 there better than I-50.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #208 on: January 11, 2022, 05:08:40 PM »

Shouldn't the US 412 Interstate designation debate be moved to the "Proposed US 412 Upgrade" thread, and leave this thread to posts about Interstate 240's wacky proposal to be extended into a full beltway around Oklahoma City?
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Scott5114

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #209 on: January 11, 2022, 05:39:33 PM »

You'll have x46s soon enough.

What makes you so sure it's going to be I-46? If I were a gambler, I'd put money that it will be I-50. Springdale would love to say that it's on the junction of "I-49 and I-50".

(image deleted for sanity's sake)
48 would equally make sense, but that'd set up an I-48/OK-48 intersection and I would hope someone would have the good sense to want to avoid that. As for 50, I would have no problem with that designation, but I don't think anyone at ODOT has the balls to ask for it.
It's no big deal for a state to renumber a highway to accommodate a new interstate. WI 142 was WI 43 before I-43 came to the state. CA 5 became CA 35. I like I-48 there better than I-50.

It's not a huge deal procedurally, but SH-48 is 159 miles long, nearly three times the length of CA 35. I'm pretty sure Oklahoma wouldn't bother and would just leave SH-48 alone. We do have a SH-44 after all, although it doesn't intersect with I-44.
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MikieTimT

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #210 on: January 11, 2022, 10:23:13 PM »

Shouldn't the US 412 Interstate designation debate be moved to the "Proposed US 412 Upgrade" thread, and leave this thread to posts about Interstate 240's wacky proposal to be extended into a full beltway around Oklahoma City?

It is one janky looking beltway, with tolls to boot.  Guess it serves the purpose, though.
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jdingus

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #211 on: May 05, 2022, 11:20:08 AM »

Any updates?
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Scott5114

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #212 on: May 05, 2022, 04:18:32 PM »

Generally, this isn't a thing that we're going to get regular updates on. We'll know it's happening whenever a signage project gets let, I expect.
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abqtraveler

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #213 on: May 06, 2022, 09:13:08 AM »

Generally, this isn't a thing that we're going to get regular updates on. We'll know it's happening whenever a signage project gets let, I expect.
We might know something about the future of I-240 on the OKC metro after next week, when AASHTO has its spring meeting in New Orleans. I don't know if ODOT and OTA have submitted their application to extend the I-240 designation for consideration at next week's meeting, as AASHTO doesn't post the pending route designation applications.  They used to post the route designation applications before the meeting years ago...but not anymore.
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2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 37, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

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Stephane Dumas

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #214 on: May 06, 2022, 04:34:03 PM »

If AASHTO decline OKDOT and OTA request, will they put a NYSDOT by calling it OK-240?
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Scott5114

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #215 on: May 06, 2022, 05:15:55 PM »

If AASHTO decline OKDOT and OTA request, will they put a NYSDOT by calling it OK-240?

No. Turnpike numbers start with 3.
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JMoses24

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #216 on: May 24, 2022, 03:27:52 PM »

If AASHTO decline OKDOT and OTA request, will they put a NYSDOT by calling it OK-240?

No, but they could pull an OKDOT by going ahead with the designation anyway. (Precedent: US 177)
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Scott5114

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #217 on: May 24, 2022, 03:49:40 PM »

If AASHTO decline OKDOT and OTA request, will they put a NYSDOT by calling it OK-240?

No, but they could pull an OKDOT by going ahead with the designation anyway. (Precedent: US 177)

ODOT only did that with US-377 because they were compelled to by federal law. (The Congressman for Shawnee wrote the designation into law, about a decade before I-99 happened.)
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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #218 on: May 24, 2022, 09:46:13 PM »

This is all moot anyways, since AASHTO did indeed approve the extension in the Fall 2021 meeting.
https://route.transportation.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2022/02/Final-Report-USRN-Application-Results-Fall-2021.pdf
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ethanhopkin14

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #219 on: May 25, 2022, 10:21:54 AM »

If AASHTO decline OKDOT and OTA request, will they put a NYSDOT by calling it OK-240?

No, but they could pull an OKDOT by going ahead with the designation anyway. (Precedent: US 177)

ODOT only did that with US-377 because they were compelled to by federal law. (The Congressman for Shawnee wrote the designation into law, about a decade before I-99 happened.)

I like the "you didn't give me permission?  Screw it, were signing it as US-377 anyway" story much better!
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jdingus

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #220 on: May 31, 2022, 01:15:30 PM »

So its a done deal?  When will they sign it?
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Scott5114

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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #221 on: May 31, 2022, 04:51:07 PM »

Generally, this isn't a thing that we're going to get regular updates on. We'll know it's happening whenever a signage project gets let, I expect.
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Re: I-240 extension in Oklahoma City
« Reply #222 on: May 31, 2022, 05:01:59 PM »

Any updates?

Generally, this isn't a thing that we're going to get regular updates on. We'll know it's happening whenever a signage project gets let, I expect.

So its a done deal?  When will they sign it?

Generally, this isn't a thing that we're going to get regular updates on. We'll know it's happening whenever a signage project gets let, I expect.

For those who didn't fully appreciate the clever response.
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