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I-49 Coming to Missouri

Started by US71, August 04, 2010, 06:54:42 PM

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NE2

So it costs almost as much for a pair of flyovers as it does for four miles of freeway in rolling terrain?
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".


intelati49

Quote from: NE2 on February 13, 2015, 11:37:24 PM
So it costs almost as much for a pair of flyovers as it does for four miles of freeway in rolling terrain?

$65 million for the 60-65 interchange http://www.modot.org/southwest/major_projects/greene/60-65Interchange.html

I don't really have any equivalent projects for the new interstate, but it sounds about right.

apjung

#552
If I-49 is rerouted thru 249 and 171 would it be a setup with partial access similar to the setup with I-5, I-205 and I-580 forming a triangle in Tracy, CA?

Grzrd

#553
Quote from: intelati49 on February 13, 2015, 10:49:04 PM
Quote
Mr. Hertzberg then asked for discussion of the cost estimates.  The MoDOT officials explained that the I-49 corridor improvements in Missouri consist of three different segments.  They anticipate costs of $75 million for improvements from the Jasper County line north to Kansas City.  They anticipate a cost of $50 million for a high-speed interchange northwest of Carthage to connect I-49 onto MO-171 to the existing MO-249 alignment, and a cost of $60 million to complete Missouri's portion of the Bella Vista bypass.
-MINUTES JOPLIN AREA TRANSPORTATION STUDY ORGANIZATION WORKSHOP THURSDAY, APRIL 30, 2009
Quote from: intelati49 on February 13, 2015, 11:41:53 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 13, 2015, 11:37:24 PM
So it costs almost as much for a pair of flyovers as it does for four miles of freeway in rolling terrain?
$65 million for the 60-65 interchange http://www.modot.org/southwest/major_projects/greene/60-65Interchange.html
I don't really have any equivalent projects for the new interstate, but it sounds about right.

More recent estimates provided to Missouri voters for the failed August, 2014 sales tax increase attempt were discussed in this post (the link to the document itself does not work; I have not checked to see if MoDOT has archived it elsewhere on its website):

Bella Vista Bypass: $32.49 million
Mo 249/ MO 171 upgrade to interstate: $62.44 million

The difference in estimates for the BVB is interesting.

edit

Quote from: adamlanfort on February 13, 2015, 08:14:37 PM
So are they eventually going to tie 171/249 into I-49 in Joplin and directly route the Interstate instead of multiplexing it with I-44?

This post summarizes some possibilities and includes a (currently live) link to an article that reflects MoDOT's thinking circa June, 2014.

Grzrd

Quote from: Grzrd on September 26, 2013, 09:54:08 PM
MoDOT has issued a press release regarding a September 30 public meeting to discuss a new I-44/49 interchange at Prigmore Avenue (County Road 190) east of Joplin:
Quote
The Project
* An overpass at Prigmore Road (County Road 190) will be converted to an interchange with straight, directional ramps.
* Two roundabouts will be built -- one on each side of I-44/49 on Prigmore Avenue at the end of the ramps.
* Prigmor Avenue will be resurfaced between the new interchange and 7th Street (Route 66) to the north.
* Estimated cost for engineering, purchasing land and construction is $11.1 million.
MoDOT will seek bids in the fall of 2014, with construction in 2015.

This article reports that construction will begin on the interchange during the week of March 2 and that the construction should be completed in November:

Quote
Work to construct a new interchange on Interstate 44 to provide direct access to the Crossroads Business and Distribution Park is scheduled to begin the week of March 2, the Missouri Department of Transportation said in a statement released this morning.
The $8.6 million interchange will be at Prigmor Avenue, east of the existing interchange for interstates 44 and 49.
Traffic impacts will include narrowed lanes on Interstate 44 and Interstate 49 for the duration of the project, and the closing of the current Prigmor Avenue bridge during construction of a new bridge and interchange. The project also will cause some brief closings on both interstates, mostly at night.
The project includes the interchange with ramps connecting to the interstate, and the building of roundabouts on each end of the bridge that will connect the ramps to Prigmor Avenue, which will be resurfaced between new interchange and East Seventh Street. The completion date is Nov. 1/
Funding for the project comes from Jasper County, the city of Duenweg and MoDOT economic development funds awarded to the city of Joplin.

silverback1065

Are there plans to upgrade the SR 171 interchange with I-49?  Is this slated to become i-249?

bugo

Quote from: silverback1065 on February 17, 2015, 02:02:23 PM
Are there plans to upgrade the SR 171 interchange with I-49?  Is this slated to become i-249?

Read the thread.

M86

#557
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 17, 2015, 02:02:23 PM
Are there plans to upgrade the SR 171 interchange with I-49?  Is this slated to become i-249?
No, there isn't.  MoDOT is in a bind. 
http://www.kmov.com/news/talkers/Lack-of-MoDOT-funds-may-leave-Missouri-highways-neglected-290705991.html

I hate the I-44 to southbound I-49 near Joplin.  The 32nd Street/Highway FF interchange is way too close.  That merge can be crazy at times.

bugo

The interchange with MO 171 and Route HH is way too close to the 171/249 interchange as well. Headed eastbound on MO 171 you have to whip over a couple of lanes in a very short distance to exit onto HH. As far as the 44/49 eastern/northern interchange goes, a flyover from EB 44 to NB 49 would make a world of difference.

US71

Seems like the HH/249/171 clusterf*ck was just reconstructed last year, though I don't remember the details
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

M86

Quote from: bugo on March 04, 2015, 12:52:54 AM
The interchange with MO 171 and Route HH is way too close to the 171/249 interchange as well. Headed eastbound on MO 171 you have to whip over a couple of lanes in a very short distance to exit onto HH. As far as the 44/49 eastern/northern interchange goes, a flyover from EB 44 to NB 49 would make a world of difference.
Agree.  I've never driven that during "rush hour" times.  Weaves are a no-no.

Quote from: US71 on March 04, 2015, 09:56:01 AM
Seems like the HH/249/171 clusterf*ck was just reconstructed last year, though I don't remember the details
I've driven through it very recently, and had no problems, but there was that weave issue for Route HH.

Grzrd

Quote from: Grzrd on January 15, 2015, 01:08:43 PM
MoDOT has posted a January 14, 2015 Press Release announcing the issuance of  "Missouri's 325 System", its plan for taking care of roads and bridges with a severely reduced construction budget by focusing its limited resources on approximately 8,000 miles of Missouri's 34,000-mile state highway system. The Southwest District Map shows that current I-49 and MO 249/ MO 171 (possible Future I-49 segment) are included in the plan, but, not surprisingly, neither construction of the Carthage area interchange necessary for the conversion of MO 249/ MO 171 to I-49 nor construction of the Bella Vista Bypass is included
Quote from: US71 on January 19, 2015, 12:03:21 AM
Quote from: M86 on January 16, 2015, 03:14:52 AM
And that pretty much kills the Bella Vista Bypass in SW Missouri.  Gah!
For now.

AASHTO has posted "Nation at a Crossroads", an infographic that makes the case for Congress to get its act together and pass a long-term highway reauthorization bill that will allow state DOTs to plan and build new major highway projects.  The Bella Vista Bypass is included as one of Missouri's ten "critical projects" that could be addressed with a reauthorization:



IF Congress passes a long-term reauthorization in the near future, then Missouri could possibly begin work on the Bella Vista Bypass in a relatively short period of time.

Grzrd

#562
Quote from: Grzrd on May 15, 2014, 02:04:07 PM
MoDOT has posted its Draft 2015-19 Southwest District Highway and Bridge Construction Schedule and it shows a 2018 Award Date and schedules construction for the Bella Vista Bypass during the July, 2017 to June, 2018 time period (page 15/32 of pdf)
Quote from: Grzrd on March 23, 2015, 12:22:46 PM
IF Congress passes a long-term reauthorization in the near future, then Missouri could possibly begin work on the Bella Vista Bypass in a relatively short period of time.

HOWEVER, this article reports that Missouri still has some work to do in order to avoid losing federal matching funds in 2017:

Quote
A proposal to raise the gas tax by six cents over three years is being promoted as a way to avert deep cuts to Missouri Department of Transportation funding for road construction that could eventually mean giving up federal highway dollars.
MoDOT calls it the 2+2+2 Plan. It is based on a pending bill introduced by Sen. Doug Libla, R-Poplar Bluff, and similar House bills. It would raise the gas tax two cents a year for three years. Missouri's current gas tax of 17.3 cents would go up to 23.3 by 2018.

It is seen as a possible legislative solution to a restricted budget MoDOT faces as the result of voter rejection last fall of Amendment 7, a proposal that would have a three-quarter cent sales tax on gasoline for 10 years.
"In the wake of the defeat of Amendment 7, we're seeing our funding decline," said Frank Miller, district planning manager for the Southwest District of MoDOT, at a meeting Thursday of Joplin area transportation planners and city officials. MoDOT's pared down spending plan for upcoming years is called the 325 System.
Under that plan, construction spending would be reduced from $600 million now to $325 million in 2017. By then, the agency would not have enough money to obtain federal matching funds for highway projects ....

One reason for MoDOT's funding woes is that the state's gas tax of 17.3 cents has not kept pace with inflation, Miller said. There has not been an increase in gas tax here since 1996. In past years, soaring gas prices caused Missourians to cut back on driving, which reduced consumption and the resulting revenue from that tax. Increased vehicle fuel efficiency also is driving down the amount of gas sold.
Miller said MoDOT believes it's governing board, the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission, may endorse the 2+2+2 Plan.
That would raise the gas tax two cents a year for three years and then make automatic increases each year based on the consumer price index.

Holly Dentner, MoDOT's customer relations director, said it is a proposal that the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission may consider for endorsement, perhaps at its next meeting April 1.
MoDOT wants to push for immediate adoption of the gas tax law to limit the losses it will incur if the 325 System has to go into effect.
If the Legislature passes the fuel tax this session, collection of the tax would begin Jan. 1 and would begin to produce revenue that could increase subsequent MoDOT budgets.
According to MoDOT projections, the tax would provide $251 million in revenue in 2017, $84 million from the state tax and $167 million federal matching funds. In 2018, there could be $525 million raised, with $399 million of that in federal funds.
If it is not enacted, the state would give up $111 million in federal matching funds in 2017 and $119 [sic?] in 2018.
With construction on the Bella Vista Bypass scheduled during the July, 2017 to June, 2018 time period, the loss of federal matching funds in 2017 and 2018 could well have a direct impact on the BVB.

The drama continues with the BVB ..........

Grzrd

#563
Quote from: Grzrd on February 17, 2015, 01:02:34 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on September 26, 2013, 09:54:08 PM
MoDOT has issued a press release regarding a September 30 public meeting to discuss a new I-44/49 interchange at Prigmore Avenue (County Road 190) east of Joplin
This article reports that construction will begin on the interchange during the week of March 2 and that the construction should be completed in November

This TV video reports on the groundbreaking ceremony that took place today and also reports that the new interchange should be completed by November 1, 2015.

Grzrd

Quote from: Grzrd on March 23, 2015, 12:22:46 PM
AASHTO has posted "Nation at a Crossroads", an infographic that makes the case for Congress to get its act together and pass a long-term highway reauthorization bill that will allow state DOTs to plan and build new major highway projects.  The Bella Vista Bypass is included as one of Missouri's ten "critical projects" that could be addressed with a reauthorization ...
IF Congress passes a long-term reauthorization in the near future, then Missouri could possibly begin work on the Bella Vista Bypass in a relatively short period of time.
Quote from: Grzrd on March 24, 2015, 11:47:35 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on May 15, 2014, 02:04:07 PM
MoDOT has posted its Draft 2015-19 Southwest District Highway and Bridge Construction Schedule and it shows a 2018 Award Date and schedules construction for the Bella Vista Bypass during the July, 2017 to June, 2018 time period (page 15/32 of pdf)
HOWEVER, this article reports that Missouri still has some work to do in order to avoid losing federal matching funds in 2017:
Quote
A proposal to raise the gas tax by six cents over three years is being promoted as a way to avert deep cuts to Missouri Department of Transportation funding for road construction that could eventually mean giving up federal highway dollars.
MoDOT calls it the 2+2+2 Plan.
With construction on the Bella Vista Bypass scheduled during the July, 2017 to June, 2018 time period, the loss of federal matching funds in 2017 and 2018 could well have a direct impact on the BVB.
Quote from: O Tamandua on March 30, 2015, 08:39:43 AM
Quote
Bella Vista Bypass Not a Priority as Missouri Searches for Highway Money
http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2015/mar/30/bella-vista-bypass-not-a-priority-as-mi/
(bottom quote from I-49 in Arkansas thread)

The article linked by O Tamandua discusses the Bella Vista Bypass in Missouri:

Quote
Missouri highway officials are looking for money for roads but even if their latest proposal is successful, finishing the Bella Vista bypass doesn't appear to be on the state's list of priority projects, regional planners were told Wednesday.
"It doesn't look like there'll be enough money to do that," Andrew Seiler with the Missouri Department of Transportation told regional planners. "It will likely be pushed back."
Seiler's comment came in response to a question from Arkansas Highway Commission Chairman Dick Trammel about highway priorities in the region. Trammel said he was "deeply concerned" about getting the connection finished in a timely manner.
"I can't be critical if it's a financial problem because we're having those ourselves," Trammel said Friday. "But if it's a priority problem, I just hope they can see the expenditure and what we're doing, and then when they get in a position to they will include the Bella Vista bypass in their priorities because it's important to Missouri and Arkansas." ....
Seiler was in town to brief the Northwest Arkansas Regional Planning Commission on the "Show Me" state's highway funding pickle.
"If we don't do something now, the roads are going to get bad," Seiler said.
The Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission is expected to announce support for a transportation funding proposal that would increase the state's motor fuel tax by 2 cents a gallon each year for three years, totaling 6 cents a gallon, and then index the gas tax for inflation using the consumer price index.
Seiler said the move would generate sufficient revenue to allow MoDOT to match federal highway money, take care of the highway system at the current level, continue safety improvements and potentially allow for a few small regional improvements ....
"What I understood him to say is this 2+2+2 is just to maintain what they've got," Trammel said.

I'm trying to reconcile in my mind the Bella Vista Bypass being touted as a "critical project" in the "Nation at a Crossroads" infographic (in order to garner support for a long-term reauthorization) with "Bella Vista Bypass not a priority" even if 2+2+2 passes.  As far as I can tell, the "not a priority" article does not discuss the possibility/impact of a long-term reauthorization. My best guess (wishful thinking?) is that both 2+2+2 and a long-term reauthorization will need to pass before Missouri will reconsider proceeding with the Bella Vista Bypass.

Gordon

Missouri needs to apply for a 2015 Tiger Grant to help out on the Bypass.

Henry

Quote from: Gordon on March 30, 2015, 05:46:20 PM
Missouri needs to apply for a 2015 Tiger Grant to help out on the Bypass.
If they want to get I-49 finished sooner, this is the ideal way.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

bugo

They need to go back to court and get the I-49 north extension (Watkins Drive) upgraded to a freeway. It would be easy to build it - it was built with a wide median with plenty of room for a freeway in the middle. The current US 71 basically exits onto frontage roads where the lights are. Just build a freeway in the middle of the current roadway and I-49 would make it to downtown KCMO.

intelati49

Quote from: bugo on March 31, 2015, 05:30:44 PM
They need to go back to court and get the I-49 north extension (Watkins Drive) upgraded to a freeway. It would be easy to build it - it was built with a wide median with plenty of room for a freeway in the middle. The current US 71 basically exits onto frontage roads where the lights are. Just build a freeway in the middle of the current roadway and I-49 would make it to downtown KCMO.

I'm all for that, but honestly that would be second on my I-49 priorities.

1. BVB. In Arkansas the traffic is terrible and I haven't even personally driven on it myself.
2. Bruce D. Watkins.

The community got completely screwed by the highway. Does anyone have the whole story? I know that there is a court order and I have been following this thread for five years now, but everything is spreadout. Is there an article detailing the planning stages?

Grzrd

#569
Quote from: Grzrd on July 11, 2012, 12:49:34 PM
I suspect that the possible upgrade of Bruce R. Watkins Drive to an interstate-grade facility is not even part of the agenda, but there is a photo of Bruce R. Watkins Drive on a page describing July 12 and July 17 Open Houses for the US 71 Transit Study
Quote from: Grzrd on November 22, 2014, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 21, 2014, 11:12:28 PM
There's seriously a court order ordering them to keep the road dangerous and inefficient?  Could you post a link?
The two KCUR stories linked in this post provide some good background information.
Quote from: Grzrd on January 15, 2015, 01:08:43 PM
This article reports that Bruce R. Watkins Drive (granted, a distant Future I-49 possibility) is not included in the primary system and will receive minimal maintenance
Quote from: bugo on January 29, 2012, 10:57:40 PM
71 will be a freeway one day ... The demographics of the neighborhood could change.  Residents die, new residents who have different views of the freeway will be born, residents will move into the neighborhood ...
Quote from: bugo on March 31, 2015, 05:30:44 PM
They need to go back to court and get the I-49 north extension (Watkins Drive) upgraded to a freeway. It would be easy to build it - it was built with a wide median with plenty of room for a freeway in the middle. The current US 71 basically exits onto frontage roads where the lights are. Just build a freeway in the middle of the current roadway and I-49 would make it to downtown KCMO.

I recently came across a 52 minute May 29, 2014 KCUR (local NPR station) roundtable discussion that includes a MoDOT official, a Mid-America Regional Council (group that supports improved public transit options along the corridor) representative, and a lifelong resident of the neighborhood.  The MoDOT official states that Bruce R. Watkins Drive ("BRWD") is "safe" and that there is no current need to upgrade the corridor. The Mid-America Regional Council representative states that the transit study found that BRWD serves two distinct markets: local and regional, which are complementary, but different. He also states that there is currently a study to see if the reserve capacity of the shoulders could be used to give transit buses a "competitive advantage", possibly including a mechanism for the buses to bypass the three lights. He seems to believe that regional travelers could be persuaded to use the buses.

The comments of the lifelong resident are very interesting. He expresses the belief that racism played a large role in how his community has failed to thrive.  He goes beyond that lament to express his belief that there were "too many cooks in the kitchen" in formulating the BRWD compromise and that the compromise "doesn't serve the needs of anybody".  He also suggests that a "redo of the road" might help to improve his community, but that it would be very expensive.

Using the sample of one, it may be possible that today's community may be open to a "redo".  However, with MoDOT's current monetary woes making even basic maintenance of BRWD a challenge, an expensive "redo" probably is not even worth exploring at this time.

Here is a snip of a photo accompanying the roundtable discussion that includes a stoplight, the wide median, and the shoulders:


intelati49

Grzrd,

Thank you so much. :clap: I completely agree with the "Serves the nobody" part. Everyone got screwed by the "compromise." :pan: I shall listen to the roundtable over the week end.

amroad17

Are the two short, wide median sections of Bruce Watkins Drive the only reason I-49 ends at I-435?  By looking at Google Maps, it would not take much in the ROW available to put a freeway through there.  However, it depends on the area residents and money available for this to possibly happen.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

Scott5114

Quote from: amroad17 on April 11, 2015, 10:50:38 PM
Are the two short, wide median sections of Bruce Watkins Drive the only reason I-49 ends at I-435?  By looking at Google Maps, it would not take much in the ROW available to put a freeway through there.  However, it depends on the area residents and money available for this to possibly happen.

Bruce Watkins Drive is the way it is because of a court order. It's a long story.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

J N Winkler

I'm just popping in to point out that call number C05 in the MoDOT construction letting of May 15, 2015 is for installation of Bugo's favorite type of interchange--a DDI--at I-49 and 211th Street in Peculiar.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Henry

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 12, 2015, 07:37:51 PM
Quote from: amroad17 on April 11, 2015, 10:50:38 PM
Are the two short, wide median sections of Bruce Watkins Drive the only reason I-49 ends at I-435?  By looking at Google Maps, it would not take much in the ROW available to put a freeway through there.  However, it depends on the area residents and money available for this to possibly happen.

Bruce Watkins Drive is the way it is because of a court order. It's a long story.
In other words, no matter how many people get killed on it, there will be no freeway upgrades for as long as that court order is in place.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!



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