North Carolina

[Jmiles32]

Then again, they are converting 10 miles of US 13 up near Ahoskie and Virginia into a full blown freeway for some reason? I don't see why at-grade expressway isn't good enough, I think like 5,000 people use that road a day.

Which specific section of US-13 are you referring to? The recently widened part concurrent with US-158? That particular project I believe was done more for a better hurricane evacuation route rather than traffic volumes.

[NE2]

Then again, they are converting 10 miles of US 13 up near Ahoskie and Virginia into a full blown freeway for some reason? I don't see why at-grade expressway isn't good enough, I think like 5,000 people use that road a day.

Which specific section of US-13 are you referring to? The recently widened part concurrent with US-158? That particular project I believe was done more for a better hurricane evacuation route rather than traffic volumes.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/R-5311B-2019-01-31.aspx

[sprjus4]

Which specific section of US-13 are you referring to? The recently widened part concurrent with US-158?

They are widening the Ahoskie Bypass to freeway standards with interchanges + overpasses, building 4 miles of new location full-blown freeway to tie into the Winton Bypass, and tying with US 158 north of there.

The new location segment + the Ahoskie Bypass would be fine without interchanges. The big NC 11 + 11 intersection concern wouldn't exist if it was a super street design 4-lanes through there. But, we will instead have a diamond interchange.

I'm not complaining, the higher quality you make it, the safer and more efficient it runs, it will also have a speed limit of 65 MPH, but I simply don't see why it's warranting this much construction + money being added for interchanges and overpasses, yet they can't even get money on US 17 for I-87 upgrades. US 17 carries double the traffic of US 13.

That particular project I believe was done more for a better hurricane evacuation route rather than traffic volumes.

I agree how that concurrency was done, it was constructed as at-grade expressway with intersections, etc. The proposed segment south of there will be built to full-blown freeway standards, when it should be built to 4-lane at-grade expressway instead. It would save over $10 million likely.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Then again, they are converting 10 miles of US 13 up near Ahoskie and Virginia into a full blown freeway for some reason? I don't see why at-grade expressway isn't good enough, I think like 5,000 people use that road a day.

Yeah, I wanted to comment on this. Had to Google where these towns are, and according to NCDOT's AADT data there are 4,600 to 8,300 vehicles on this stretch. Wow. Must be nice to live in eastern North Carolina. Then again, we were just discussing $600 million+ for Corridor K in far western NC, which has basically the same amount of traffic. Meanwhile, in Charlotte and Raleigh.... Glad the data-driven project prioritization is working. 

[sprjus4]

Then again, they are converting 10 miles of US 13 up near Ahoskie and Virginia into a full blown freeway for some reason? I don't see why at-grade expressway isn't good enough, I think like 5,000 people use that road a day.

Yeah, I wanted to comment on this. Had to Google where these towns are, and according to NCDOT's AADT data there are 4,600 to 8,300 vehicles on this stretch. Wow. Must be nice to live in eastern North Carolina. Then again, we were just discussing $600 million+ for Corridor K in far western NC, which has basically the same amount of traffic. Meanwhile, in Charlotte and Raleigh.... Glad the data-driven project prioritization is working. 

The only problem with Corridor K is the cost. This project will only cost $60 million (still too much). I'd be willing to bet if they built it at-grade it would be max $40 million. Projects on US 17, Future I-87 are being pushed back for 10+ years and that carries more traffic, and would actually eliminate some traffic signals. This project would add interchanges at adequate at-grade intersections.

[wdcrft63]

Then again, they are converting 10 miles of US 13 up near Ahoskie and Virginia into a full blown freeway for some reason? I don't see why at-grade expressway isn't good enough, I think like 5,000 people use that road a day.

Yeah, I wanted to comment on this. Had to Google where these towns are, and according to NCDOT's AADT data there are 4,600 to 8,300 vehicles on this stretch. Wow. Must be nice to live in eastern North Carolina. Then again, we were just discussing $600 million+ for Corridor K in far western NC, which has basically the same amount of traffic. Meanwhile, in Charlotte and Raleigh.... Glad the data-driven project prioritization is working. 

I usually defend NCDOT on expressway projects, but this does seem excessive, especially since important pieces of US 17 such as Washington to Williamston are being upgraded only to at-grade expressways rather than freeways.

[sprjus4]

Then again, they are converting 10 miles of US 13 up near Ahoskie and Virginia into a full blown freeway for some reason? I don't see why at-grade expressway isn't good enough, I think like 5,000 people use that road a day.

Yeah, I wanted to comment on this. Had to Google where these towns are, and according to NCDOT's AADT data there are 4,600 to 8,300 vehicles on this stretch. Wow. Must be nice to live in eastern North Carolina. Then again, we were just discussing $600 million+ for Corridor K in far western NC, which has basically the same amount of traffic. Meanwhile, in Charlotte and Raleigh.... Glad the data-driven project prioritization is working. 

I usually defend NCDOT on expressway projects, but this does seem excessive, especially since important pieces of US 17 such as Washington to Williamston are being upgraded only to at-grade expressways rather than freeways.

I was hoping the Williamston to Washington section would be built on new location, still expressway, but limited-access so it could be upgraded later on. That's how widening on major corridors or have potential to be should be done. US 13, is not. US 17, is.

[Jmiles32]

Which specific section of US-13 are you referring to? The recently widened part concurrent with US-158?

They are widening the Ahoskie Bypass to freeway standards with interchanges + overpasses, building 4 miles of new location full-blown freeway to tie into the Winton Bypass, and tying with US 158 north of there.

The new location segment + the Ahoskie Bypass would be fine without interchanges. The big NC 11 + 11 intersection concern wouldn't exist if it was a super street design 4-lanes through there. But, we will instead have a diamond interchange.

I'm not complaining, the higher quality you make it, the safer and more efficient it runs, it will also have a speed limit of 65 MPH, but I simply don't see why it's warranting this much construction + money being added for interchanges and overpasses, yet they can't even get money on US 17 for I-87 upgrades. US 17 carries double the traffic of US 13.

Totally agree. Maybe NC-11 south is Ahoskie is planned to be some major corridor or something. But then again that seems to backstab NC's plan for I-87 to be the major southern corridor to Hampton Roads so at this point its anyone's guess.

[sprjus4]

Which specific section of US-13 are you referring to? The recently widened part concurrent with US-158?

They are widening the Ahoskie Bypass to freeway standards with interchanges + overpasses, building 4 miles of new location full-blown freeway to tie into the Winton Bypass, and tying with US 158 north of there.

The new location segment + the Ahoskie Bypass would be fine without interchanges. The big NC 11 + 11 intersection concern wouldn't exist if it was a super street design 4-lanes through there. But, we will instead have a diamond interchange.

I'm not complaining, the higher quality you make it, the safer and more efficient it runs, it will also have a speed limit of 65 MPH, but I simply don't see why it's warranting this much construction + money being added for interchanges and overpasses, yet they can't even get money on US 17 for I-87 upgrades. US 17 carries double the traffic of US 13.

Totally agree. Maybe NC-11 south is Ahoskie is planned to be some major corridor or something. But then again that seems to backstab NC's plan for I-87 to be the major southern corridor to Hampton Roads so at this point its anyone's guess.

If NC-11 is planned to be a major interstate, I-87 is dead. I-87's routing has about 15-20 additional miles, and if NC-11 was turned into a freeway itself, they'd be killing I-87's effectiveness as a non-stop interstate from Norfolk to Raleigh.

I support four-laning NC-11, but not converting it into a freeway.

[Mapmikey]

A while back there was a push to have NCDOT change its preference to multilane from US 13 from Windsor to Ahoskie to instead NC 11 from Bethel to Ahoskie.

This was years before the meaningful push for a Raleigh-Norfolk interstate.

[sprjus4]

A while back there was a push to have NCDOT change its preference to multilane from US 13 from Windsor to Ahoskie to instead NC 11 from Bethel to Ahoskie.

This was years before the meaningful push for a Raleigh-Norfolk interstate.

I understand the multi-laning push, but this is a freeway they want.

And wasn't the Raleigh-Norfolk interstate proposed in the early 90s? Or was this multilaning of NC 11 / US 13 debate before then?

[sparker]

A while back there was a push to have NCDOT change its preference to multilane from US 13 from Windsor to Ahoskie to instead NC 11 from Bethel to Ahoskie.

This was years before the meaningful push for a Raleigh-Norfolk interstate.

I understand the multi-laning push, but this is a freeway they want.

And wasn't the Raleigh-Norfolk interstate proposed in the early 90s? Or was this multilaning of NC 11 / US 13 debate before then?

The "vehicle" for the eventual designation of I-87 was High Priority Corridor #13, which was first outlined within the ISTEA legislation of 1991 as a Norfolk-Raleigh corridor following US 17 & US 64; the I-87 designation was simply appended to the HPC authorizing language -- which is S.O.P. for Interstate additions these days (others: HPC 68/I-11 northern extension, HPC 45/I-22, HPC 57/I-41). 

[sprjus4]

A while back there was a push to have NCDOT change its preference to multilane from US 13 from Windsor to Ahoskie to instead NC 11 from Bethel to Ahoskie.

This was years before the meaningful push for a Raleigh-Norfolk interstate.

I understand the multi-laning push, but this is a freeway they want.

And wasn't the Raleigh-Norfolk interstate proposed in the early 90s? Or was this multilaning of NC 11 / US 13 debate before then?

The "vehicle" for the eventual designation of I-87 was High Priority Corridor #13, which was first outlined within the ISTEA legislation of 1991 as a Norfolk-Raleigh corridor following US 17 & US 64; the I-87 designation was simply appended to the HPC authorizing language -- which is S.O.P. for Interstate additions these days (others: HPC 68/I-11 northern extension, HPC 45/I-22, HPC 57/I-41).

Now thinking about it, I believe the original push was eventually for an interstate / freeway, but the first priority was completing 4-lanes from Raleigh to Norfolk. The last piece in North Carolina was the 2008 Windsor Bypass, and the final overall was upgrading Dominion Blvd to interstate standards in Chesapeake (with the exception of some extremely odd signage). Now that it's all completed, the push is for a freeway spanning the corridor.

The U.S. 64 relocation built between Tarboro - Williamston in 1996 - 2004 was built to full interstate standards unlike the previous 60s - 80s freeways before it. I believe the HPC #13 designation had something to do with that, however the 2008 Windsor Bypass and 2002 Elizabeth City Bypass were not built to full interstate standards.

[RoadPelican]

The only defense I would give NCDOT for upgrading US 13 in Northeast NC is that it's going to create another high speed corridor to get to the Hampton Roads Metro area.  In this case, it would be quicker getting to Suffolk and the western suburbs of Hampton Roads via US 13 from Ahoskie area then it would be to take US 17.  US 17 is great for getting to VA Beach, Chesapeake and Norfolk.  Not so much for Suffolk, Portsmouth and maybe Newport News.

A lot of people that live on the US 13 corridor between Ahoskie and the NC/VA line probably commute to jobs in Suffolk and buy groceries and gas in Suffolk (lower sales and gas tax than NC).

[LM117]

Heads up to anyone travelling the US-17 corridor in the New Bern area the next 3 months:


https://www.witn.com/content/news/US-17-Bypass-closing-for-three-months-504544821.html


I really don't think it will be a big deal, they really hadn't made any changes to the old road except for 1 new shopping center (meaning one new stoplight) since the bypass had opened, and there isn't a lot of traffic at any given time of the day on the bypass during the winter anyway.

NCDOT has finally posted a press release on this.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-01-30-new-bern-bypass-to-close-for-three-months.aspx

[sprjus4]

The only defense I would give NCDOT for upgrading US 13 in Northeast NC is that it's going to create another high speed corridor to get to the Hampton Roads Metro area.  In this case, it would be quicker getting to Suffolk and the western suburbs of Hampton Roads via US 13 from Ahoskie area then it would be to take US 17.  US 17 is great for getting to VA Beach, Chesapeake and Norfolk.  Not so much for Suffolk, Portsmouth and maybe Newport News.

A lot of people that live on the US 13 corridor between Ahoskie and the NC/VA line probably commute to jobs in Suffolk and buy groceries and gas in Suffolk (lower sales and gas tax than NC).

I understand the freeway argument on US 13 to some extent, but if it was a 70 MPH freeway, anybody bound to Chesapeake, VA Beach, or Norfolk would also use it. I-87 should be the "main highway" in eastern NC and connecting Raleigh / I-95 to VA, the one with the most traffic, whereas US 13 can handle a four-lane upgrade and run smoothly with the little traffic it has. If I'm not mistaken, most of NC 11 south of Ahoskie is all built on 4-lane right of way. No R/W costs would be needed to widen that portion. A freeway would though.

[sparker]

The U.S. 64 relocation built between Tarboro - Williamston in 1996 - 2004 was built to full interstate standards unlike the previous 60s - 80s freeways before it. I believe the HPC #13 designation had something to do with that, however the 2008 Windsor Bypass and 2002 Elizabeth City Bypass were not built to full interstate standards.

That fact has led me to surmise that NCDOT, after HPC #13 was designated, had a potential Interstate corridor in mind all along (likely prompted and abetted by political interests in that part of the state) for certainly US 64 and likely US 17 as well; so a decision was made to initially construct the remaining Tarboro-Williamston US 64 segment to Interstate standards (essentially adding paved inner/outer shoulders at the appropriate width) so it wouldn't require upgrades if & when the Interstate designation was imminent.  As it turns out, their assumptions panned out!

[sprjus4]

The U.S. 64 relocation built between Tarboro - Williamston in 1996 - 2004 was built to full interstate standards unlike the previous 60s - 80s freeways before it. I believe the HPC #13 designation had something to do with that, however the 2008 Windsor Bypass and 2002 Elizabeth City Bypass were not built to full interstate standards.

That fact has led me to surmise that NCDOT, after HPC #13 was designated, had a potential Interstate corridor in mind all along (likely prompted and abetted by political interests in that part of the state) for certainly US 64 and likely US 17 as well; so a decision was made to initially construct the remaining Tarboro-Williamston US 64 segment to Interstate standards (essentially adding paved inner/outer shoulders at the appropriate width) so it wouldn't require upgrades if & when the Interstate designation was imminent.  As it turns out, their assumptions panned out!

Correct, the interstate concept connecting Raleigh to Norfolk via Elizabeth City has been around since the 90s. Only now is there so much talk about it, because it has an official number - I-87.

Notice also how the talk about it has since decreased because it's no longer big anymore. Once NCDOT announces any upgraded segments for US 17, the talk will ramp back up significantly. Once the interchange projects near Hertford begin or simply starts getting designed, the talk will ramp up significantly.

[sprjus4]

I emailed the project manager in regards to the Ahoskie / Winton US 13 / NC 11 freeway project concerning the issue of the proposed interchanges / overpasses over at-grade intersections.

This was the response I received -

"The decision regarding the issue of at-grade intersection vs. interchanges and overpasses was made prior to my involvement in the project and are considered as part of the planning document. I do know that most if not all of your concerns were brought-up and were included in the preliminary alternatives comparison. We are currently in the Final Design phase and the final alternate has been selected."

I followed up for clarification, but I'm pretty sure that the design for interchanges / overpasses is finalized and will not be changed. Still seems like a waste of money IMO when that money for interchanges / overpasses could be going into interchange / overpass projects along US 17, actually a corridor designated a Future Interstate unlike NC 11 / US 13, carries double the traffic, is a major trucking corridor, and has a signalized intersection that needs to be replaced unlike this roadway.

I find this interesting too, because he is based in Edenton, right along the I-87 corridor. However, he did mention this was determined before he was involved.

[sparker]

If NC-11 is planned to be a major interstate, I-87 is dead. I-87's routing has about 15-20 additional miles, and if NC-11 was turned into a freeway itself, they'd be killing I-87's effectiveness as a non-stop interstate from Norfolk to Raleigh.

I support four-laning NC-11, but not converting it into a freeway.

The same local/state dynamics that brought us the eventual conversion of US 264 into I-587 are at work with the NC 11 corridor from Bethel south to Kinston.   It'll probably be some sort of 3di as an auxiliary of either I-87 or possibly I-42.  It appears that the aim of E NC politicos is to create a miniature Interstate-grade grid in their area; Greenville is simply the hub of activity in this regard.  Eventually the tobacco industry that has dominated commerce in the region will subside; it appears that local interests are "prepping" the region to be a significant distribution center to replace tobacco growing & preparation as the principal revenue source.  The port connectors (I-87, I-42) are the major "spokes" of the area network -- particularly post-Panamax (or so local boosters hope); I-587 and a possible N-S connector along NC 11 make up the secondary access roads in order to publicize the Greenville area as a place to locate warehousing and distribution facilities.  While it is likely that US 17 will eventually receive the Interstate treatment as a sort of "Atlantic" corridor, the locals are not waiting around for that -- they're busy formulating the elevation of their local roads as a corridor cluster of their own -- calculating that the main trunk Interstates (42,87) will be completed on some sort of schedule to provide the traffic base. 

[LM117]

The same local/state dynamics that brought us the eventual conversion of US 264 into I-587 are at work with the NC 11 corridor from Bethel south to Kinston.

Not so much lately. The mayors of Greenville and Kinston that pushed for that are no longer in office. Allen Thomas resigned from Greenville to become executive director of the Global TransPark in Kinston and B.J. Murphy lost his re-election bid in Kinston. There's been no further talk about upgrading NC-11 from their successors...at least not publicly. There's also been no further attempt by local congressmen to re-introduce the ENC Gateway Act, which previously fell on it's face in 2016 shortly before the elections.

Greenville is currently focused on projects in it's area, such as the Greenville Southwest Bypass and the 10th Street Connector and Kinston is focused on I-42.

[sparker]

^^^^^^^
Fair enough.  The "change in management" in the region must mean that the Greenville Southwest Bypass is now a stand-alone project not specifically tied to any future prospects for the NC 11 corridor.  But then the Kinston "refocusing" on I-42 rather than other potential distractions can only enhance the near-term outlook for that corridor. 

[sprjus4]

^^^^^^^
Fair enough.  The "change in management" in the region must mean that the Greenville Southwest Bypass is now a stand-alone project not specifically tied to any future prospects for the NC 11 corridor.  But then the Kinston "refocusing" on I-42 rather than other potential distractions can only enhance the near-term outlook for that corridor.

Those projects are still the STIP for review every two years. It's not "fully" gone. I agree it could become an I-X42 in the future. I wouldn't say I-X87, because if they did both, Greensville would have an I-X87 and I-X42 mixing at their city. But I'm sure some would say it's already serviced by a four-lane arterial highway and does not warrant upgrades. Same with I-42, and any new interstates. But that's different story for a different time...not getting back into that mess.

[LM117]

A public meeting is being held in Four Oaks on February 28 regarding proposed improvements to the I-95/US-701 interchange (Exit 90).

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-02-01-johnston-open-house.aspx

...and the new Bonner Bridge is expected to open to traffic later this month, weather permitting.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-02-01-bonner-bridge-replacement.aspx

[LM117]

The new Bonner Bridge could be getting a new name.

https://www.wral.com/new-outer-banks-bridge-could-get-a-new-name-as-well/18174486/