North Carolina

[bob7374]

The 2021-2022 state map is now available.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-08-04-state-map-release.aspx

Of note is the dotted line for the remaining 540 loop is "Future I-540" in the inset.

US 70 has not been moved High Point to Greensboro (Rand McN already did this one).

I-885 not labeled nor shown as open.

Meanwhile. the Wilson inset has still not been corrected. It still lists US 117 as being concurrent with US 264 from I-95 and shows I-795 exit numbers for US 264 that were never changed. On the Triad inset they also list I-840 on the eastern section of the Loop with I-785.

[sparker]

Any thoughts about the new (HPC #92) corridor designated along US 421 from Greensboro to I-95 near Dunn?  Seems to have emerged "out of the blue", so to speak.  If it had been intended as an intercity connector, the rational route would simply continue south along NC 87 to Fayetteville rather than turn east to the Dunn area -- unless the location of the I-95 interchange can be "massaged" so it's closer to the I-95/40 junction, so the new corridor could serve as a "relief route" for I-40 while avoiding the Triangle.  Nevertheless, I for one would have thought that any number of NC corridors would have gotten this treatment before the one that actually did -- namely US 74 between I-26, Charlotte, and Rockingham; NC 11 between US 70/I-42 and US 64/I-87, and even US 17 from Williamston south to the SC state line.  In-state politics probably has a large part to play here.   

[RoadPelican]

NCDOT is supposed to start widening US 421 from Sanford to Broadway in 2022.  However, there are no other projects on the horizon for this corridor from Sanford to Dunn.  US 421 is just 2 lanes from Sanford to Lillington.  Also, US 421 goes right thru the center of Dunn and it is quite dangerous as it is just a 4 lane street with NO center turn lane or right turn lane and plenty of driveways!!!!   A lot of money would be needed for this to be an effective HPC.  It would provide better connectivity between Sanford and ENC and Wilmington, but money is better used on finishing I-74 between Asheville and Wilmington.  Also before US 421,  I would widen NC 11 to 4 lanes and finish the gap between Kenansville and Pink Hill, then one could travel between Greenville and Wilmington and never have to use any 2 lane roads.

[Dirt Roads]

Any thoughts about the new (HPC #92) corridor designated along US 421 from Greensboro to I-95 near Dunn?  Seems to have emerged "out of the blue", so to speak.  If it had been intended as an intercity connector, the rational route would simply continue south along NC 87 to Fayetteville rather than turn east to the Dunn area -- unless the location of the I-95 interchange can be "massaged" so it's closer to the I-95/40 junction, so the new corridor could serve as a "relief route" for I-40 while avoiding the Triangle.  Nevertheless, I for one would have thought that any number of NC corridors would have gotten this treatment before the one that actually did -- namely US 74 between I-26, Charlotte, and Rockingham; NC 11 between US 70/I-42 and US 64/I-87, and even US 17 from Williamston south to the SC state line.  In-state politics probably has a large part to play here.   

NCDOT is supposed to start widening US 421 from Sanford to Broadway in 2022.  However, there are no other projects on the horizon for this corridor from Sanford to Dunn.  US 421 is just 2 lanes from Sanford to Lillington.  Also, US 421 goes right thru the center of Dunn and it is quite dangerous as it is just a 4 lane street with NO center turn lane or right turn lane and plenty of driveways!!!!   A lot of money would be needed for this to be an effective HPC.  It would provide better connectivity between Sanford and ENC and Wilmington, but money is better used on finishing I-74 between Asheville and Wilmington.  Also before US 421,  I would widen NC 11 to 4 lanes and finish the gap between Kenansville and Pink Hill, then one could travel between Greenville and Wilmington and never have to use any 2 lane roads.

Not finding NHS High Priority Corridor 92 on the radar yet.  But I'm certain that there will be a few corridors added to the NHS as part of the 2021 Infrastructure Bill, since earmarks are back on the table.  Oddly, the eastern part of this HPC-92 is contrary to NCDOT Strategic Transportation Corridor K that is just like the one sparker described (US-421 Greensboro -to- Sanford, NC-87 Sanford -to- I-95 Fayetteville) except that it continues to Southport along NC-87 staying south and west of the Cape Fear River.

[Mapmikey]

I also believe going to Fayetteville makes more sense, unless the idea is to continue it along US 421 to Wilmington someday.

Number this and replace I-785 with I-83?

[sprjus4]

I also believe going to Fayetteville makes more sense, unless the idea is to continue it along US 421 to Wilmington someday.

That would make even less sense, given I-40. I'd rather see them spend limited funding on corridors that actually don't already have a parallel interstate.

[Dirt Roads]

I also believe going to Fayetteville makes more sense, unless the idea is to continue it along US 421 to Wilmington someday.

That would make even less sense, given I-40. I'd rather see them spend limited funding on corridors that actually don't already have a parallel interstate.

Perhaps, except that the US-421//NC-87 corridor from I-85 Greensboro Bypass to NC-295 Fayetteville Outer Loop is almost complete, and already includes at least 17 interchanges (not including the two Interstate connections).  All that remains is a two-lane section between Sanford and Pineview, a short two-lane section just north of Manchester, plus the congested area of Bragg Boulevard through Spring Lake (much of which has already been upgraded).

As I've mentioned several times, the old-timers' route from the Great Lakes to Myrtle Beach through North Carolina was US-52 -to- US-64 -to- US-220 -to- US-74, which just happens to be the routing of I-74.  But it will never make any sense now that US-421//NC-87 is now a much shorter and faster route.

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Except that it doesn't continue SE on NC 87 to Fayetteville and on toward Wilmington; it turns east to hit I-95 near Dunn.  I fully agree with sprjus4 that its prioritization is a bit misguided (again, it's likely local/intrastate politics is the culprit here) given its functional duplication of I-40 -- is the traffic past Durham and around the Raleigh belt that bad? (and that's a real rather than rhetorical question!).  But, according to the language in the bill, it is a designated Interstate corridor, albeit with no number attached at present, so someone wants it to exist as such.  My guess if and when further action occurs here:  it'll be either I-36 or I-38.     

[sprjus4]

Perhaps, except that the US-421//NC-87 corridor from I-85 Greensboro Bypass to NC-295 Fayetteville Outer Loop is almost complete, and already includes at least 17 interchanges (not including the two Interstate connections).  All that remains is a two-lane section between Sanford and Pineview, a short two-lane section just north of Manchester, plus the congested area of Bragg Boulevard through Spring Lake (much of which has already been upgraded).

I fully agree with the need for an interstate highway between Greensboro and Fayetteville along the US-421 / NC-87 corridor. What I'm saying is unnecessary is anything along US-421 east of Sanford, and especially along US-421 east / south of I-95, because it's effectively paralleling I-40 (which functions as a fully adequate, not congested, rural interstate highway) all the way to Wilmington.

And for the record, no two lane portions exist between Fayetteville and Greensboro. The entire route is 4 lanes minimum throughout. The sections you mentioned are not four lanes divided, rather 5 lane with a center turn lane.

I fully agree with sprjus4 that its prioritization is a bit misguided (again, it's likely local/intrastate politics is the culprit here) given its functional duplication of I-40 -- is the traffic past Durham and around the Raleigh belt that bad? (and that's a real rather than rhetorical question!).

There is certainly traffic congestion in the Raleigh area that is unpleasant for through traffic, however with the planned expansion of the remaining 4 lane segment of I-40 between US-501 and I-85, and more importantly the ongoing construction of the remaining piece of the NC-540 toll road that will function as an outer 70 mph bypass of the entire city, through traffic will have a viable option to avoid Raleigh and still have a reliable I-40 elsewhere. A relief corridor like US-421 between Greensboro and Dunn specifically to avoid I-40 through Raleigh / Durham is certainly questionable.

[bob7374]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Except that it doesn't continue SE on NC 87 to Fayetteville and on toward Wilmington; it turns east to hit I-95 near Dunn.  I fully agree with sprjus4 that its prioritization is a bit misguided (again, it's likely local/intrastate politics is the culprit here) given its functional duplication of I-40 -- is the traffic past Durham and around the Raleigh belt that bad? (and that's a real rather than rhetorical question!).  But, according to the language in the bill, it is a designated Interstate corridor, albeit with no number attached at present, so someone wants it to exist as such.  My guess if and when further action occurs here:  it'll be either I-36 or I-38.     

Its origins are local. Info gathered from my 'Future Future NC Interstate' site: This started out as a proposal by local developer, Jed McMillan who proposed an upgraded US 421 between Greensboro and Fayetteville in 2017 to connect 4 potential commercial 'megasites': the Aerospace Center at the PTI Airport in Greensboro, the Greensboro-Randolph County project near Liberty, the Chatham Advanced Manufacturing site in Siler City, and the Moncure Megasite on US 1 in Chatham County. He made a presentation to the NCDOT Board on August 3 which then took no action. Apparently this changed sometime in 2019 because on September 25 of that year the Greensboro Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (GUAMPO) approved a resolution in support of giving US 421 interstate designation and bringing it up to interstate standards. The resolution notes that US 421 connects I-95 with I-40 and would provide a "valuable alternate route for military and freight traffic"  as well as "additional evacuation routes and relief and recovery routes to the region."  The resolution also noted that the NCDOT Board of Transportation had already passed its own resolution in support of upgrading US 421 between I-40 and I-95 to an interstate. It was reported at the time that all other MPOs along the corridor will have to pass similar resolutions before any proposed designation can move forward. Now perhaps not.

[Traffic]

The 2021-2022 state map is now available.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-08-04-state-map-release.aspx

Of note is the dotted line for the remaining 540 loop is "Future I-540" in the inset.

US 70 has not been moved High Point to Greensboro (Rand McN already did this one).

I-885 not labeled nor shown as open.

Meanwhile. the Wilson inset has still not been corrected. It still lists US 117 as being concurrent with US 264 from I-95 and shows I-795 exit numbers for US 264 that were never changed. On the Triad inset they also list I-840 on the eastern section of the Loop with I-785.

US 70 is being rerouted along Wendover. Ave. in Greensboro to NC 68/Eastchester Drive just north of High Point.  From there, NC 68 and US 70 will will concurrently back south to the current Bus. 85 just north of Thomasville.  Bus. 85 is being is going away, and that entire section of Bus. 85, that was the original (temp) I-85 back in the day, will now just be US 29 between I-85 Exit 118 and National Hwy. in Thomasville.  From there, the US 29-70 concurrency will resume down to Lexington and Salisbury.

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Except that it doesn't continue SE on NC 87 to Fayetteville and on toward Wilmington; it turns east to hit I-95 near Dunn.  I fully agree with sprjus4 that its prioritization is a bit misguided (again, it's likely local/intrastate politics is the culprit here) given its functional duplication of I-40 -- is the traffic past Durham and around the Raleigh belt that bad? (and that's a real rather than rhetorical question!).  But, according to the language in the bill, it is a designated Interstate corridor, albeit with no number attached at present, so someone wants it to exist as such.  My guess if and when further action occurs here:  it'll be either I-36 or I-38.     

Its origins are local. Info gathered from my 'Future Future NC Interstate' site: This started out as a proposal by local developer, Jed McMillan who proposed an upgraded US 421 between Greensboro and Fayetteville in 2017 to connect 4 potential commercial 'megasites': the Aerospace Center at the PTI Airport in Greensboro, the Greensboro-Randolph County project near Liberty, the Chatham Advanced Manufacturing site in Siler City, and the Moncure Megasite on US 1 in Chatham County. He made a presentation to the NCDOT Board on August 3 which then took no action. Apparently this changed sometime in 2019 because on September 25 of that year the Greensboro Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (GUAMPO) approved a resolution in support of giving US 421 interstate designation and bringing it up to interstate standards. The resolution notes that US 421 connects I-95 with I-40 and would provide a "valuable alternate route for military and freight traffic"  as well as "additional evacuation routes and relief and recovery routes to the region."  The resolution also noted that the NCDOT Board of Transportation had already passed its own resolution in support of upgrading US 421 between I-40 and I-95 to an interstate. It was reported at the time that all other MPOs along the corridor will have to pass similar resolutions before any proposed designation can move forward. Now perhaps not.

So it's not so much a relief route for I-40 as a "connect-the-dots" corridor serving several sizeable industrial-park sites -- ostensibly with a substantial amount of local bucks dependent upon attracting large-scale occupants/tenants, possibly including warehousing and distribution facilities.  That would account for the push for I-status for the corridor, since access to Interstates is well up on most check lists.  This essentially is I-87/587 rationale but a bit further west; at about 90 miles, it's similar in length to the US 64 portion of I-87.  Still think NCDOT will try for a 2di on this one, having found success at getting the about 120-mile I-42 on the books. 

[Crown Victoria]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Except that it doesn't continue SE on NC 87 to Fayetteville and on toward Wilmington; it turns east to hit I-95 near Dunn.  I fully agree with sprjus4 that its prioritization is a bit misguided (again, it's likely local/intrastate politics is the culprit here) given its functional duplication of I-40 -- is the traffic past Durham and around the Raleigh belt that bad? (and that's a real rather than rhetorical question!).  But, according to the language in the bill, it is a designated Interstate corridor, albeit with no number attached at present, so someone wants it to exist as such.  My guess if and when further action occurs here:  it'll be either I-36 or I-38.     

Its origins are local. Info gathered from my 'Future Future NC Interstate' site: This started out as a proposal by local developer, Jed McMillan who proposed an upgraded US 421 between Greensboro and Fayetteville in 2017 to connect 4 potential commercial 'megasites': the Aerospace Center at the PTI Airport in Greensboro, the Greensboro-Randolph County project near Liberty, the Chatham Advanced Manufacturing site in Siler City, and the Moncure Megasite on US 1 in Chatham County. He made a presentation to the NCDOT Board on August 3 which then took no action. Apparently this changed sometime in 2019 because on September 25 of that year the Greensboro Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (GUAMPO) approved a resolution in support of giving US 421 interstate designation and bringing it up to interstate standards. The resolution notes that US 421 connects I-95 with I-40 and would provide a "valuable alternate route for military and freight traffic"  as well as "additional evacuation routes and relief and recovery routes to the region."  The resolution also noted that the NCDOT Board of Transportation had already passed its own resolution in support of upgrading US 421 between I-40 and I-95 to an interstate. It was reported at the time that all other MPOs along the corridor will have to pass similar resolutions before any proposed designation can move forward. Now perhaps not.

So it's not so much a relief route for I-40 as a "connect-the-dots" corridor serving several sizeable industrial-park sites -- ostensibly with a substantial amount of local bucks dependent upon attracting large-scale occupants/tenants, possibly including warehousing and distribution facilities.  That would account for the push for I-status for the corridor, since access to Interstates is well up on most check lists.  This essentially is I-87/587 rationale but a bit further west; at about 90 miles, it's similar in length to the US 64 portion of I-87.  Still think NCDOT will try for a 2di on this one, having found success at getting the about 120-mile I-42 on the books.

Part of this corridor could be, in theory, an extension of I-42. Extend that route west along NC 540, then south along US 1 to Sanford, then along US 421 to Greensboro. The Sanford to Dunn and Sanford to Fayetteville routes become x42s. This also allows for I-42 to then extend further west, to I-77 or perhaps even to Boone... (Probably bordering on Fictional here, but this is North Carolina, anything can happen when Interstates are involved!)

More likely though, we will witness the birth of yet another new 2di in NC, as stated above by others.

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Except that it doesn't continue SE on NC 87 to Fayetteville and on toward Wilmington; it turns east to hit I-95 near Dunn.  I fully agree with sprjus4 that its prioritization is a bit misguided (again, it's likely local/intrastate politics is the culprit here) given its functional duplication of I-40 -- is the traffic past Durham and around the Raleigh belt that bad? (and that's a real rather than rhetorical question!).  But, according to the language in the bill, it is a designated Interstate corridor, albeit with no number attached at present, so someone wants it to exist as such.  My guess if and when further action occurs here:  it'll be either I-36 or I-38.     

Its origins are local. Info gathered from my 'Future Future NC Interstate' site: This started out as a proposal by local developer, Jed McMillan who proposed an upgraded US 421 between Greensboro and Fayetteville in 2017 to connect 4 potential commercial 'megasites': the Aerospace Center at the PTI Airport in Greensboro, the Greensboro-Randolph County project near Liberty, the Chatham Advanced Manufacturing site in Siler City, and the Moncure Megasite on US 1 in Chatham County. He made a presentation to the NCDOT Board on August 3 which then took no action. Apparently this changed sometime in 2019 because on September 25 of that year the Greensboro Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (GUAMPO) approved a resolution in support of giving US 421 interstate designation and bringing it up to interstate standards. The resolution notes that US 421 connects I-95 with I-40 and would provide a "valuable alternate route for military and freight traffic"  as well as "additional evacuation routes and relief and recovery routes to the region."  The resolution also noted that the NCDOT Board of Transportation had already passed its own resolution in support of upgrading US 421 between I-40 and I-95 to an interstate. It was reported at the time that all other MPOs along the corridor will have to pass similar resolutions before any proposed designation can move forward. Now perhaps not.

So it's not so much a relief route for I-40 as a "connect-the-dots" corridor serving several sizeable industrial-park sites -- ostensibly with a substantial amount of local bucks dependent upon attracting large-scale occupants/tenants, possibly including warehousing and distribution facilities.  That would account for the push for I-status for the corridor, since access to Interstates is well up on most check lists.  This essentially is I-87/587 rationale but a bit further west; at about 90 miles, it's similar in length to the US 64 portion of I-87.  Still think NCDOT will try for a 2di on this one, having found success at getting the about 120-mile I-42 on the books.

Part of this corridor could be, in theory, an extension of I-42. Extend that route west along NC 540, then south along US 1 to Sanford, then along US 421 to Greensboro. The Sanford to Dunn and Sanford to Fayetteville routes become x42s. This also allows for I-42 to then extend further west, to I-77 or perhaps even to Boone... (Probably bordering on Fictional here, but this is North Carolina, anything can happen when Interstates are involved!)

More likely though, we will witness the birth of yet another new 2di in NC, as stated above by others.

Yeah -- getting I-42 onto this one would be too convoluted even for NC; they'd first have to get US 1 designated from Raleigh or Apex to Sanford, then pop a 2nd designation on the Sanford-Dunn segment.  Nah...they'll just stick one number on the whole thing and be done with it.  Anything down US 1 would likely be done as a separate designation/project.  Maybe a I-87 extension; who knows.  Also, I don't think NCDOT wants to play around with putting an Interstate designation on a toll road; they would have just continued the I-540 shielding by now if that were the case.

[Dirt Roads]

Except that it doesn't continue SE on NC 87 to Fayetteville and on toward Wilmington; it turns east to hit I-95 near Dunn.  I fully agree with sprjus4 that its prioritization is a bit misguided (again, it's likely local/intrastate politics is the culprit here) given its functional duplication of I-40 -- is the traffic past Durham and around the Raleigh belt that bad? (and that's a real rather than rhetorical question!).  But, according to the language in the bill, it is a designated Interstate corridor, albeit with no number attached at present, so someone wants it to exist as such.  My guess if and when further action occurs here:  it'll be either I-36 or I-38.     

Its origins are local. Info gathered from my 'Future Future NC Interstate' site: This started out as a proposal by local developer, Jed McMillan who proposed an upgraded US 421 between Greensboro and Fayetteville in 2017 to connect 4 potential commercial 'megasites': the Aerospace Center at the PTI Airport in Greensboro, the Greensboro-Randolph County project near Liberty, the Chatham Advanced Manufacturing site in Siler City, and the Moncure Megasite on US 1 in Chatham County. He made a presentation to the NCDOT Board on August 3 which then took no action. Apparently this changed sometime in 2019 because on September 25 of that year the Greensboro Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (GUAMPO) approved a resolution in support of giving US 421 interstate designation and bringing it up to interstate standards. The resolution notes that US 421 connects I-95 with I-40 and would provide a "valuable alternate route for military and freight traffic"  as well as "additional evacuation routes and relief and recovery routes to the region."  The resolution also noted that the NCDOT Board of Transportation had already passed its own resolution in support of upgrading US 421 between I-40 and I-95 to an interstate. It was reported at the time that all other MPOs along the corridor will have to pass similar resolutions before any proposed designation can move forward. Now perhaps not.

I don't see where an Interstate-quality freeway would ever be needed.  But the concept to start planning for the commercial development of the outer reaches surrounding Raleigh/Durham is going to be appealing to the wheeler-dealers.  My big question is how this ties into the economic grid.  In the past, I-95 development fed the Northeast Corridor and South Florida/West Florida, while I-85 fed Atlanta.  For obvious reasons, the east coast of Florida ended up with parallel spines, whereas Atlanta ended up with a wheel-and-spoke arrangement.  With the Research Triangle Park being located conveniently/inconveniently between the I-85 and I-95 corridors, it seems to me that the key to economic development would be routes that feed that system.  In electrical terms, one would say connecting with the least resistance.  Perpendicular development doesn't make much sense. 

That being said, the US-421 corridor (or alternatively, NCDOT Strategic Transportation Corridor K using NC-87) does connect well with I-40 westward and I-74/I-77 northward.  But with both crossing the mountains, that doesn't feel much like a major economic driver.  Now if the primary goal is to open that development up to the ULCV/neo-Panamax shipping out of the Port of Wilmington, that makes much more sense (particularly if the corridor is connected directly to I-40 east of I-95).  But that type of truck traffic doesn't need anything near Interstate-quality roads for short hauls less than 250 miles.  However, it might justify a new railroad corridor continuing up beyond the A-Line into this area.

[Crown Victoria]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Except that it doesn't continue SE on NC 87 to Fayetteville and on toward Wilmington; it turns east to hit I-95 near Dunn.  I fully agree with sprjus4 that its prioritization is a bit misguided (again, it's likely local/intrastate politics is the culprit here) given its functional duplication of I-40 -- is the traffic past Durham and around the Raleigh belt that bad? (and that's a real rather than rhetorical question!).  But, according to the language in the bill, it is a designated Interstate corridor, albeit with no number attached at present, so someone wants it to exist as such.  My guess if and when further action occurs here:  it'll be either I-36 or I-38.     

Its origins are local. Info gathered from my 'Future Future NC Interstate' site: This started out as a proposal by local developer, Jed McMillan who proposed an upgraded US 421 between Greensboro and Fayetteville in 2017 to connect 4 potential commercial 'megasites': the Aerospace Center at the PTI Airport in Greensboro, the Greensboro-Randolph County project near Liberty, the Chatham Advanced Manufacturing site in Siler City, and the Moncure Megasite on US 1 in Chatham County. He made a presentation to the NCDOT Board on August 3 which then took no action. Apparently this changed sometime in 2019 because on September 25 of that year the Greensboro Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (GUAMPO) approved a resolution in support of giving US 421 interstate designation and bringing it up to interstate standards. The resolution notes that US 421 connects I-95 with I-40 and would provide a "valuable alternate route for military and freight traffic"  as well as "additional evacuation routes and relief and recovery routes to the region."  The resolution also noted that the NCDOT Board of Transportation had already passed its own resolution in support of upgrading US 421 between I-40 and I-95 to an interstate. It was reported at the time that all other MPOs along the corridor will have to pass similar resolutions before any proposed designation can move forward. Now perhaps not.

So it's not so much a relief route for I-40 as a "connect-the-dots" corridor serving several sizeable industrial-park sites -- ostensibly with a substantial amount of local bucks dependent upon attracting large-scale occupants/tenants, possibly including warehousing and distribution facilities.  That would account for the push for I-status for the corridor, since access to Interstates is well up on most check lists.  This essentially is I-87/587 rationale but a bit further west; at about 90 miles, it's similar in length to the US 64 portion of I-87.  Still think NCDOT will try for a 2di on this one, having found success at getting the about 120-mile I-42 on the books.

Part of this corridor could be, in theory, an extension of I-42. Extend that route west along NC 540, then south along US 1 to Sanford, then along US 421 to Greensboro. The Sanford to Dunn and Sanford to Fayetteville routes become x42s. This also allows for I-42 to then extend further west, to I-77 or perhaps even to Boone... (Probably bordering on Fictional here, but this is North Carolina, anything can happen when Interstates are involved!)

More likely though, we will witness the birth of yet another new 2di in NC, as stated above by others.

Yeah -- getting I-42 onto this one would be too convoluted even for NC; they'd first have to get US 1 designated from Raleigh or Apex to Sanford, then pop a 2nd designation on the Sanford-Dunn segment.  Nah...they'll just stick one number on the whole thing and be done with it.  Anything down US 1 would likely be done as a separate designation/project.  Maybe a I-87 extension; who knows.  Also, I don't think NCDOT wants to play around with putting an Interstate designation on a toll road; they would have just continued the I-540 shielding by now if that were the case.

Very true. There will be a new 2di for the Greensboro-Dunn route, and eventually another for US 74 from Columbus NC, through Charlotte, to Rockingham (there I am going Fictional again). 

[Strider]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Except that it doesn't continue SE on NC 87 to Fayetteville and on toward Wilmington; it turns east to hit I-95 near Dunn.  I fully agree with sprjus4 that its prioritization is a bit misguided (again, it's likely local/intrastate politics is the culprit here) given its functional duplication of I-40 -- is the traffic past Durham and around the Raleigh belt that bad? (and that's a real rather than rhetorical question!).  But, according to the language in the bill, it is a designated Interstate corridor, albeit with no number attached at present, so someone wants it to exist as such.  My guess if and when further action occurs here:  it'll be either I-36 or I-38.     

Its origins are local. Info gathered from my 'Future Future NC Interstate' site: This started out as a proposal by local developer, Jed McMillan who proposed an upgraded US 421 between Greensboro and Fayetteville in 2017 to connect 4 potential commercial 'megasites': the Aerospace Center at the PTI Airport in Greensboro, the Greensboro-Randolph County project near Liberty, the Chatham Advanced Manufacturing site in Siler City, and the Moncure Megasite on US 1 in Chatham County. He made a presentation to the NCDOT Board on August 3 which then took no action. Apparently this changed sometime in 2019 because on September 25 of that year the Greensboro Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (GUAMPO) approved a resolution in support of giving US 421 interstate designation and bringing it up to interstate standards. The resolution notes that US 421 connects I-95 with I-40 and would provide a "valuable alternate route for military and freight traffic"  as well as "additional evacuation routes and relief and recovery routes to the region."  The resolution also noted that the NCDOT Board of Transportation had already passed its own resolution in support of upgrading US 421 between I-40 and I-95 to an interstate. It was reported at the time that all other MPOs along the corridor will have to pass similar resolutions before any proposed designation can move forward. Now perhaps not.

So it's not so much a relief route for I-40 as a "connect-the-dots" corridor serving several sizeable industrial-park sites -- ostensibly with a substantial amount of local bucks dependent upon attracting large-scale occupants/tenants, possibly including warehousing and distribution facilities.  That would account for the push for I-status for the corridor, since access to Interstates is well up on most check lists.  This essentially is I-87/587 rationale but a bit further west; at about 90 miles, it's similar in length to the US 64 portion of I-87.  Still think NCDOT will try for a 2di on this one, having found success at getting the about 120-mile I-42 on the books.

Part of this corridor could be, in theory, an extension of I-42. Extend that route west along NC 540, then south along US 1 to Sanford, then along US 421 to Greensboro. The Sanford to Dunn and Sanford to Fayetteville routes become x42s. This also allows for I-42 to then extend further west, to I-77 or perhaps even to Boone... (Probably bordering on Fictional here, but this is North Carolina, anything can happen when Interstates are involved!)

More likely though, we will witness the birth of yet another new 2di in NC, as stated above by others.

Nah. I-42 is not going any farther west of I-40. And "this is NC thing with interstates" thing is just pure false.

[Strider]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Except that it doesn't continue SE on NC 87 to Fayetteville and on toward Wilmington; it turns east to hit I-95 near Dunn.  I fully agree with sprjus4 that its prioritization is a bit misguided (again, it's likely local/intrastate politics is the culprit here) given its functional duplication of I-40 -- is the traffic past Durham and around the Raleigh belt that bad? (and that's a real rather than rhetorical question!).  But, according to the language in the bill, it is a designated Interstate corridor, albeit with no number attached at present, so someone wants it to exist as such.  My guess if and when further action occurs here:  it'll be either I-36 or I-38.     

Its origins are local. Info gathered from my 'Future Future NC Interstate' site: This started out as a proposal by local developer, Jed McMillan who proposed an upgraded US 421 between Greensboro and Fayetteville in 2017 to connect 4 potential commercial 'megasites': the Aerospace Center at the PTI Airport in Greensboro, the Greensboro-Randolph County project near Liberty, the Chatham Advanced Manufacturing site in Siler City, and the Moncure Megasite on US 1 in Chatham County. He made a presentation to the NCDOT Board on August 3 which then took no action. Apparently this changed sometime in 2019 because on September 25 of that year the Greensboro Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (GUAMPO) approved a resolution in support of giving US 421 interstate designation and bringing it up to interstate standards. The resolution notes that US 421 connects I-95 with I-40 and would provide a "valuable alternate route for military and freight traffic"  as well as "additional evacuation routes and relief and recovery routes to the region."  The resolution also noted that the NCDOT Board of Transportation had already passed its own resolution in support of upgrading US 421 between I-40 and I-95 to an interstate. It was reported at the time that all other MPOs along the corridor will have to pass similar resolutions before any proposed designation can move forward. Now perhaps not.

So it's not so much a relief route for I-40 as a "connect-the-dots" corridor serving several sizeable industrial-park sites -- ostensibly with a substantial amount of local bucks dependent upon attracting large-scale occupants/tenants, possibly including warehousing and distribution facilities.  That would account for the push for I-status for the corridor, since access to Interstates is well up on most check lists.  This essentially is I-87/587 rationale but a bit further west; at about 90 miles, it's similar in length to the US 64 portion of I-87.  Still think NCDOT will try for a 2di on this one, having found success at getting the about 120-mile I-42 on the books.

Part of this corridor could be, in theory, an extension of I-42. Extend that route west along NC 540, then south along US 1 to Sanford, then along US 421 to Greensboro. The Sanford to Dunn and Sanford to Fayetteville routes become x42s. This also allows for I-42 to then extend further west, to I-77 or perhaps even to Boone... (Probably bordering on Fictional here, but this is North Carolina, anything can happen when Interstates are involved!)

More likely though, we will witness the birth of yet another new 2di in NC, as stated above by others.

Yeah -- getting I-42 onto this one would be too convoluted even for NC; they'd first have to get US 1 designated from Raleigh or Apex to Sanford, then pop a 2nd designation on the Sanford-Dunn segment.  Nah...they'll just stick one number on the whole thing and be done with it.  Anything down US 1 would likely be done as a separate designation/project.  Maybe a I-87 extension; who knows.  Also, I don't think NCDOT wants to play around with putting an Interstate designation on a toll road; they would have just continued the I-540 shielding by now if that were the case.

Very true. There will be a new 2di for the Greensboro-Dunn route, and eventually another for US 74 from Columbus NC, through Charlotte, to Rockingham (there I am going Fictional again).

There is NO proposal for new 2di in North Carolina after I-42 and I-87, so that's definitely going fictional.

[wdcrft63]

It's conventional wisdom on the Forum that NCDOT wants to convert everything to interstates. No, they don't. The new interstates in NC are all due to political pressure, not because NCDOT was hot to take on the additional trouble and expense of interstate upgrades. Don't assume that everything that could be an interstate is certain to become an interstate. Case by case it depends on the politics.

[sprjus4]

^ NCDOT has interest in upgrading various corridors to freeway standards, but the interstate designation is purely political.

US-17, US-421 / NC-87, and US-74 are logical freeway upgrades, nonetheless.

[Crown Victoria]

It's conventional wisdom on the Forum that NCDOT wants to convert everything to interstates. No, they don't. The new interstates in NC are all due to political pressure, not because NCDOT was hot to take on the additional trouble and expense of interstate upgrades. Don't assume that everything that could be an interstate is certain to become an interstate. Case by case it depends on the politics.

^ NCDOT has interest in upgrading various corridors to freeway standards, but the interstate designation is purely political.

US-17, US-421 / NC-87, and US-74 are logical freeway upgrades, nonetheless.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Except that it doesn't continue SE on NC 87 to Fayetteville and on toward Wilmington; it turns east to hit I-95 near Dunn.  I fully agree with sprjus4 that its prioritization is a bit misguided (again, it's likely local/intrastate politics is the culprit here) given its functional duplication of I-40 -- is the traffic past Durham and around the Raleigh belt that bad? (and that's a real rather than rhetorical question!).  But, according to the language in the bill, it is a designated Interstate corridor, albeit with no number attached at present, so someone wants it to exist as such.  My guess if and when further action occurs here:  it'll be either I-36 or I-38.     

Its origins are local. Info gathered from my 'Future Future NC Interstate' site: This started out as a proposal by local developer, Jed McMillan who proposed an upgraded US 421 between Greensboro and Fayetteville in 2017 to connect 4 potential commercial 'megasites': the Aerospace Center at the PTI Airport in Greensboro, the Greensboro-Randolph County project near Liberty, the Chatham Advanced Manufacturing site in Siler City, and the Moncure Megasite on US 1 in Chatham County. He made a presentation to the NCDOT Board on August 3 which then took no action. Apparently this changed sometime in 2019 because on September 25 of that year the Greensboro Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (GUAMPO) approved a resolution in support of giving US 421 interstate designation and bringing it up to interstate standards. The resolution notes that US 421 connects I-95 with I-40 and would provide a "valuable alternate route for military and freight traffic"  as well as "additional evacuation routes and relief and recovery routes to the region."  The resolution also noted that the NCDOT Board of Transportation had already passed its own resolution in support of upgrading US 421 between I-40 and I-95 to an interstate. It was reported at the time that all other MPOs along the corridor will have to pass similar resolutions before any proposed designation can move forward. Now perhaps not.

So it's not so much a relief route for I-40 as a "connect-the-dots" corridor serving several sizeable industrial-park sites -- ostensibly with a substantial amount of local bucks dependent upon attracting large-scale occupants/tenants, possibly including warehousing and distribution facilities.  That would account for the push for I-status for the corridor, since access to Interstates is well up on most check lists.  This essentially is I-87/587 rationale but a bit further west; at about 90 miles, it's similar in length to the US 64 portion of I-87.  Still think NCDOT will try for a 2di on this one, having found success at getting the about 120-mile I-42 on the books.

Part of this corridor could be, in theory, an extension of I-42. Extend that route west along NC 540, then south along US 1 to Sanford, then along US 421 to Greensboro. The Sanford to Dunn and Sanford to Fayetteville routes become x42s. This also allows for I-42 to then extend further west, to I-77 or perhaps even to Boone... (Probably bordering on Fictional here, but this is North Carolina, anything can happen when Interstates are involved!)

More likely though, we will witness the birth of yet another new 2di in NC, as stated above by others.

Nah. I-42 is not going any farther west of I-40. And "this is NC thing with interstates" thing is just pure false.

Is it, though? There's not too many other states that are designating new interstate corridors like NC. Maybe it's the politicians and business interests from/in NC and not NCDOT, but it's still a thing for them.

As for my prediction of a future 2di along US 74 between Columbus and Rockingham...maybe it's not officially proposed yet. I myself stated that it's fictional at present. It's a logical corridor for an Interstate designation; a large portion of the route is already freeway, the Shelby bypass is under construction, and there is talk of upgrades east of Monroe toward Wadesboro. There's even a news article from just a few months ago speculating about Interstate status for US 74: https://ansonrecord.com/news/11143/wadesboro-bypass-is-coming-no-stopping-it-city-manager-says  The politicians will catch on soon enough with a designation here.

And of course we can't always assume that anything that could become an Interstate will become one...but given the history of such efforts in North Carolina over the past two decades, it's reasonable to believe that there will be a push for such designations on corridors currently lacking Interstate status in the future. Remember, businesses like those Interstate shields...

[sparker]

There is NO proposal for new 2di in North Carolina after I-42 and I-87, so that's definitely going fictional.

The Greensboro-Dunn future Interstate -- at least once the bill presently up for approval is passed -- is, or will be, a reality.  Whether it'll be a 2di or 3di remains to be seen -- but its location and trajectory isn't terribly conducive to a x85 or x95 (accounting for both ends of the corridor), and it doesn't actually intersect I-40 (although that hasn't stopped such designations before).  I'll still put a few preliminary cents down on an even number in the 30's, either the unused-in-NC "36" or "38", which is an extension of SC 38 that barely pokes into NC, and (at some point TBD) will be subsumed by I-73.  It's likely that the folks behind the designation of this corridor will point to I-42 and posit that their corridor is just as important and should be offered the same consideration; unless there's some objection lodged (unlikely), a 2di designation should pass muster. 

[Strider]

It's conventional wisdom on the Forum that NCDOT wants to convert everything to interstates. No, they don't. The new interstates in NC are all due to political pressure, not because NCDOT was hot to take on the additional trouble and expense of interstate upgrades. Don't assume that everything that could be an interstate is certain to become an interstate. Case by case it depends on the politics.

^ NCDOT has interest in upgrading various corridors to freeway standards, but the interstate designation is purely political.

US-17, US-421 / NC-87, and US-74 are logical freeway upgrades, nonetheless.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Except that it doesn't continue SE on NC 87 to Fayetteville and on toward Wilmington; it turns east to hit I-95 near Dunn.  I fully agree with sprjus4 that its prioritization is a bit misguided (again, it's likely local/intrastate politics is the culprit here) given its functional duplication of I-40 -- is the traffic past Durham and around the Raleigh belt that bad? (and that's a real rather than rhetorical question!).  But, according to the language in the bill, it is a designated Interstate corridor, albeit with no number attached at present, so someone wants it to exist as such.  My guess if and when further action occurs here:  it'll be either I-36 or I-38.     

Its origins are local. Info gathered from my 'Future Future NC Interstate' site: This started out as a proposal by local developer, Jed McMillan who proposed an upgraded US 421 between Greensboro and Fayetteville in 2017 to connect 4 potential commercial 'megasites': the Aerospace Center at the PTI Airport in Greensboro, the Greensboro-Randolph County project near Liberty, the Chatham Advanced Manufacturing site in Siler City, and the Moncure Megasite on US 1 in Chatham County. He made a presentation to the NCDOT Board on August 3 which then took no action. Apparently this changed sometime in 2019 because on September 25 of that year the Greensboro Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (GUAMPO) approved a resolution in support of giving US 421 interstate designation and bringing it up to interstate standards. The resolution notes that US 421 connects I-95 with I-40 and would provide a "valuable alternate route for military and freight traffic"  as well as "additional evacuation routes and relief and recovery routes to the region."  The resolution also noted that the NCDOT Board of Transportation had already passed its own resolution in support of upgrading US 421 between I-40 and I-95 to an interstate. It was reported at the time that all other MPOs along the corridor will have to pass similar resolutions before any proposed designation can move forward. Now perhaps not.

So it's not so much a relief route for I-40 as a "connect-the-dots" corridor serving several sizeable industrial-park sites -- ostensibly with a substantial amount of local bucks dependent upon attracting large-scale occupants/tenants, possibly including warehousing and distribution facilities.  That would account for the push for I-status for the corridor, since access to Interstates is well up on most check lists.  This essentially is I-87/587 rationale but a bit further west; at about 90 miles, it's similar in length to the US 64 portion of I-87.  Still think NCDOT will try for a 2di on this one, having found success at getting the about 120-mile I-42 on the books.

Part of this corridor could be, in theory, an extension of I-42. Extend that route west along NC 540, then south along US 1 to Sanford, then along US 421 to Greensboro. The Sanford to Dunn and Sanford to Fayetteville routes become x42s. This also allows for I-42 to then extend further west, to I-77 or perhaps even to Boone... (Probably bordering on Fictional here, but this is North Carolina, anything can happen when Interstates are involved!)

More likely though, we will witness the birth of yet another new 2di in NC, as stated above by others.

Nah. I-42 is not going any farther west of I-40. And "this is NC thing with interstates" thing is just pure false.

Is it, though? There's not too many other states that are designating new interstate corridors like NC. Maybe it's the politicians and business interests from/in NC and not NCDOT, but it's still a thing for them.

As for my prediction of a future 2di along US 74 between Columbus and Rockingham...maybe it's not officially proposed yet. I myself stated that it's fictional at present. It's a logical corridor for an Interstate designation; a large portion of the route is already freeway, the Shelby bypass is under construction, and there is talk of upgrades east of Monroe toward Wadesboro. There's even a news article from just a few months ago speculating about Interstate status for US 74: https://ansonrecord.com/news/11143/wadesboro-bypass-is-coming-no-stopping-it-city-manager-says  The politicians will catch on soon enough with a designation here.

And of course we can't always assume that anything that could become an Interstate will become one...but given the history of such efforts in North Carolina over the past two decades, it's reasonable to believe that there will be a push for such designations on corridors currently lacking Interstate status in the future. Remember, businesses like those Interstate shields...

Texas says hey.

Also, even if Wadesboro bypass is proposed, it will be an interstate-grade road and not I-xx. The article never mentioned anything about adding an I-xx number. Just an interstate-grade road. And it is proposed to be named U.S. 74 Bypass.

[Strider]

There is NO proposal for new 2di in North Carolina after I-42 and I-87, so that's definitely going fictional.

The Greensboro-Dunn future Interstate -- at least once the bill presently up for approval is passed -- is, or will be, a reality.  Whether it'll be a 2di or 3di remains to be seen -- but its location and trajectory isn't terribly conducive to a x85 or x95 (accounting for both ends of the corridor), and it doesn't actually intersect I-40 (although that hasn't stopped such designations before).  I'll still put a few preliminary cents down on an even number in the 30's, either the unused-in-NC "36" or "38", which is an extension of SC 38 that barely pokes into NC, and (at some point TBD) will be subsumed by I-73.  It's likely that the folks behind the designation of this corridor will point to I-42 and posit that their corridor is just as important and should be offered the same consideration; unless there's some objection lodged (unlikely), a 2di designation should pass muster.

First of all, the Greensboro-Fayetteville (Dunn) future interstate is NOT going to be a 2di. It will be 3di at best. According to NC Core website, their proposed interstate number is I-685.

Besides, it cannot happen unless each MPO along the corridor approves it and submit to NCDOT before NCDOT can ever consider upgrading US 421 corridor and putting an interstate number on it. The only one that approved it so far is Greensboro's MPO. So, as of right now... it is still a proposal and a question mark.

[bob7374]

There is NO proposal for new 2di in North Carolina after I-42 and I-87, so that's definitely going fictional.

The Greensboro-Dunn future Interstate -- at least once the bill presently up for approval is passed -- is, or will be, a reality.  Whether it'll be a 2di or 3di remains to be seen -- but its location and trajectory isn't terribly conducive to a x85 or x95 (accounting for both ends of the corridor), and it doesn't actually intersect I-40 (although that hasn't stopped such designations before).  I'll still put a few preliminary cents down on an even number in the 30's, either the unused-in-NC "36" or "38", which is an extension of SC 38 that barely pokes into NC, and (at some point TBD) will be subsumed by I-73.  It's likely that the folks behind the designation of this corridor will point to I-42 and posit that their corridor is just as important and should be offered the same consideration; unless there's some objection lodged (unlikely), a 2di designation should pass muster.

First of all, the Greensboro-Fayetteville (Dunn) future interstate is NOT going to be a 2di. It will be 3di at best. According to NC Core website, their proposed interstate number is I-685.

Besides, it cannot happen unless each MPO along the corridor approves it and submit to NCDOT before NCDOT can ever consider upgrading US 421 corridor and putting an interstate number on it. The only one that approved it so far is Greensboro's MPO. So, as of right now... it is still a proposal and a question mark.

Here's a link to an article from last summer sponsored by the Carolina Core group Strider mentioned that is pushing Interstate status for US 421 and promoting the I-685 number:
https://businessnc.com/the-carolina-core-comes-together-to-win-big/

and here's the CarolinaCore webpage with a map of the corridor where I-685 is mentioned :
https://nccarolinacore.com/why-the-core/location-infrastructure/