North Carolina

[Katavia]

https://goo.gl/maps/efW12JdBED5JwcVA6
Question. The freeway that spurs off the I-40 freeway in the GSV image was the original alignment of I-40 in the 1980's.

I have a state map from 1987 showing one E-W freeway only through Winston- Salem with US 311 ( now I-74) terminating at  US 52 ( nowI-285 ).   If I'm correct I-40 between I-285/ US 52 and I-74 existed in the 1980's as US 311 into Downtown.

Yes on the first part. Formerly signed as Business I-40 once the bypass was built, said business route was decommissioned a few years ago.

US 311 has been getting incremently chopped off for some time now. That second part sounds about right but I can't be certain.

[dfilpus]

https://goo.gl/maps/efW12JdBED5JwcVA6
Question. The freeway that spurs off the I-40 freeway in the GSV image was the original alignment of I-40 in the 1980's.

I have a state map from 1987 showing one E-W freeway only through Winston- Salem with US 311 ( now I-74) terminating at  US 52 ( nowI-285 ).   If I'm correct I-40 between I-285/ US 52 and I-74 existed in the 1980's as US 311 into Downtown.

Correct. When the I-40 bypass was constructed around W-S in the late 1990's, it incorporated  part of the existing US 311 freeway from the current split to US 52. The freeway continued west for a short way. I think that was numbered NC 150. This segment was rebuilt into I-40 and NC 150 was rerouted through W-S. US 311 remained signed on I-40 and US 52 until the 2010's when it was removed from I-74, I-40 and US 52. The southern end of US 311 was moved from Randleman to W-S.

[The Ghostbuster]

All US 311 signage south of US 52's Exit 110B should have been removed by now. There shouldn't be any lingering signage left over, although looking at the corridor via Street View, there is still some signage that still needs to be removed. Google Maps should also remove the US 311 shield from US 52, Interstate 40, Interstate 74, and County Highway 2270.

[kendancy66]

https://goo.gl/maps/efW12JdBED5JwcVA6
Question. The freeway that spurs off the I-40 freeway in the GSV image was the original alignment of I-40 in the 1980's.

I have a state map from 1987 showing one E-W freeway only through Winston- Salem with US 311 ( now I-74) terminating at  US 52 ( nowI-285 ).   If I'm correct I-40 between I-285/ US 52 and I-74 existed in the 1980's as US 311 into Downtown.

Correct. When the I-40 bypass was constructed around W-S in the late 1990's, it incorporated  part of the existing US 311 freeway from the current split to US 52. The freeway continued west for a short way. I think that was numbered NC 150. This segment was rebuilt into I-40 and NC 150 was rerouted through W-S. US 311 remained signed on I-40 and US 52 until the 2010's when it was removed from I-74, I-40 and US 52. The southern end of US 311 was moved from Randleman to W-S.

The short freeway segment that existed before I-40 was moved from current US-421, was called Corporation Freeway, was then not part of NC-150.  NC-150 ran North from Davidson County, on Peter's Creek Pkwy to current US-421 (also then I-40 and US-158)  .  Then followed US-421 South towards Kernersville.  The short freeway segment was a transition from then Corporation Pkwy (now part of Silas Creek Pkwy), and was called Corporation Freeway.  It was only a freeway after Main Street which was then an at-grade intersection with a traffic light.  This short freeway section ended just east of US-52 and transitioned to NC-109 and US-311 (High Point Rd) . First US-311 Freeway was built from east of where Corporation Freeway ended, to High Point, When the relocated I-40 was completed in the early 1990's (maybe by 1992), Corporation Freeway was merged into it along with part of US-311 west of the current split of I-40 and US-311 (now I-74)

[kendancy66]

https://goo.gl/maps/efW12JdBED5JwcVA6
Question. The freeway that spurs off the I-40 freeway in the GSV image was the original alignment of I-40 in the 1980's.

I have a state map from 1987 showing one E-W freeway only through Winston- Salem with US 311 ( now I-74) terminating at  US 52 ( nowI-285 ).   If I'm correct I-40 between I-285/ US 52 and I-74 existed in the 1980's as US 311 into Downtown.

Correct. When the I-40 bypass was constructed around W-S in the late 1990's, it incorporated  part of the existing US 311 freeway from the current split to US 52. The freeway continued west for a short way. I think that was numbered NC 150. This segment was rebuilt into I-40 and NC 150 was rerouted through W-S. US 311 remained signed on I-40 and US 52 until the 2010's when it was removed from I-74, I-40 and US 52. The southern end of US 311 was moved from Randleman to W-S.

The short freeway segment that existed before I-40 was moved from current US-421, was called Corporation Freeway, was then not part of NC-150.  NC-150 ran North from Davidson County, on Peter's Creek Pkwy to current US-421 (also then I-40 and US-158)  .  Then followed US-421 South towards Kernersville.  The short freeway segment was a transition from then Corporation Pkwy (now part of Silas Creek Pkwy), and was called Corporation Freeway.  It was only a freeway after Main Street which was then an at-grade intersection with a traffic light.  This short freeway section ended just east of US-52 and transitioned to NC-109 and US-311 (High Point Rd) . First US-311 Freeway was built from east of where Corporation Freeway ended, to High Point, When the relocated I-40 was completed in the early 1990's (maybe by 1992), Corporation Freeway was merged into it along with part of US-311 west of the current split of I-40 and US-311 (now I-74)

Correction to my last post. After looking at map, instead of trying to recall from memory.  At that time, NC-150 only went up Peters Creek Pkwy to Corporation Pkwy not US-421.  What I was remembering was that going North on US-421 the Peters Creek Pkwy exit was signed TO NC-150 not NC-150 itself.  So previous poster was partially correct that Corporation Pkwy was NC-150, but it leaves before the freeway segment of Corporation Freeway, at I believe what is Main St.  Which I had previously said was an at-grade intersection, but is showing on the map as an interchange  I don't remember it being an interchange until after I-40 was relocated there.  Now also seeing that currently NC-150 does go up to US-421 on Peters Creek Pkwy

[wdcrft63]

Beginning July 10 the number of trains each way between Raleigh and Charlotte will increase from 4 to 5 daily.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-05-18-more-trains-new-schedules-bc-by-train.aspx

[Strider]

https://goo.gl/maps/efW12JdBED5JwcVA6
Question. The freeway that spurs off the I-40 freeway in the GSV image was the original alignment of I-40 in the 1980's.

I have a state map from 1987 showing one E-W freeway only through Winston- Salem with US 311 ( now I-74) terminating at  US 52 ( nowI-285 ).   If I'm correct I-40 between I-285/ US 52 and I-74 existed in the 1980's as US 311 into Downtown.

Correct. When the I-40 bypass was constructed around W-S in the late 1990's, it incorporated  part of the existing US 311 freeway from the current split to US 52. The freeway continued west for a short way. I think that was numbered NC 150. This segment was rebuilt into I-40 and NC 150 was rerouted through W-S. US 311 remained signed on I-40 and US 52 until the 2010's when it was removed from I-74, I-40 and US 52. The southern end of US 311 was moved from Randleman to W-S.

The short freeway segment that existed before I-40 was moved from current US-421, was called Corporation Freeway, was then not part of NC-150.  NC-150 ran North from Davidson County, on Peter's Creek Pkwy to current US-421 (also then I-40 and US-158)  .  Then followed US-421 South towards Kernersville.  The short freeway segment was a transition from then Corporation Pkwy (now part of Silas Creek Pkwy), and was called Corporation Freeway.  It was only a freeway after Main Street which was then an at-grade intersection with a traffic light.  This short freeway section ended just east of US-52 and transitioned to NC-109 and US-311 (High Point Rd) . First US-311 Freeway was built from east of where Corporation Freeway ended, to High Point, When the relocated I-40 was completed in the early 1990's (maybe by 1992), Corporation Freeway was merged into it along with part of US-311 west of the current split of I-40 and US-311 (now I-74)

Correction to my last post. After looking at map, instead of trying to recall from memory.  At that time, NC-150 only went up Peters Creek Pkwy to Corporation Pkwy not US-421.  What I was remembering was that going North on US-421 the Peters Creek Pkwy exit was signed TO NC-150 not NC-150 itself.  So previous poster was partially correct that Corporation Pkwy was NC-150, but it leaves before the freeway segment of Corporation Freeway, at I believe what is Main St.  Which I had previously said was an at-grade intersection, but is showing on the map as an interchange  I don't remember it being an interchange until after I-40 was relocated there.  Now also seeing that currently NC-150 does go up to US-421 on Peters Creek Pkwy

Looking at Historical Viewers for Winston-Salem, I went back to 1987 and checked it out. It looked like NC-150 turned right on Silas Creek from Peters Creek and were briefly on Corporation Parkway before it leaves. It either got off at US-52 interchange and followed it to Sprague St (the next exit on US-52), or it leaves at Clemmonsville Rd exit and followed it to Sprague St.

UPDATE: According to VAHighways.com, NC-150 did indeed was on Corporation towards US-52/NC 8. It followed US-52 towards Sprague St and exited there until the 90's.

"In 1961, NC 150 was removed from Acadia, Broad and Sprague west of Main St and placed on the new Corporation Pkwy and duplexed with US 52/NC 8 Main St north to Sprague."

[ahj2000]

Beginning July 10 the number of trains each way between Raleigh and Charlotte will increase from 4 to 5 daily.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-05-18-more-trains-new-schedules-bc-by-train.aspx

Great news! More trains = a more convenient schedule and leads to more people using them.
Wonder if there will ever be a second Carolinian to DC/NY.

[architect77]

Beginning July 10 the number of trains each way between Raleigh and Charlotte will increase from 4 to 5 daily.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-05-18-more-trains-new-schedules-bc-by-train.aspx

Great news! More trains = a more convenient schedule and leads to more people using them.
Wonder if there will ever be a second Carolinian to DC/NY.

VA now owns the abandoned S line. As soon as NC/VA can pony up $4 billion to ressurrect 100 miles of the S line, you will then get new service from Raleigh direct to Richmond/D.C. that doesn't go through Rocky Mount.

[architect77]

Presently I-540 is in compliance with these rules, because it does not return to I-40; it ends at I-87. If (1) NC 540 is completed, (2) the tolls are removed, (3) NCDOT asks for an interstate designation, and (4) these rules are still in effect (this is now pretty far in the future, after 2050), then the Feds might demand that it be renumbered.

The rule is that an interstate that connects to another interstate has an even first-digit, so its not in compliance. That said, they got a waiver from AASHTO back when I-495 was first setup and that waiver still exists to this day. It is not likely for the AASHTO or FHWA to demand a designation change in the future.

Forget parent interstates or connecting to another interstate.

I want to see completed interstate loops in the US that begin with an odd 1st number.

Raleigh ultimately will have a complete outer loop, even if it's 60% tolled until bond repayment, I say it will be renamed with an even first number.

[sprjus4]

Raleigh ultimately will have a complete outer loop, even if it's 60% tolled until bond repayment, I say it will be renamed with an even first number.

We can all say different things. I say it won't be changed, because it will cause more confusion than help. It appeases roadgeeks and that's about it. And only some - I don't think it should be changed.

[LM117]

Beginning July 10 the number of trains each way between Raleigh and Charlotte will increase from 4 to 5 daily.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-05-18-more-trains-new-schedules-bc-by-train.aspx

To add to this, NCDOT Rail Division is doing a feasibility study of adding passenger rail service from Raleigh to Greenville via Wilson.

(Cookies may need to be enabled to see article)

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/passenger-rail-service-from-wilson-to-greenville-studied/?pub=wilsontimes

[architect77]

Raleigh ultimately will have a complete outer loop, even if it's 60% tolled until bond repayment, I say it will be renamed with an even first number.

We can all say different things. I say it won't be changed, because it will cause more confusion than help. It appeases roadgeeks and that's about it. And only some - I don't think it should be changed.

Well at least acknowledge that the entire US interstate system follows specific naming rules, and acknowledge you can't cite another completed loop in any of the 50 states that begins with an odd first digit number.

It seems like you think your opinion should hold more weight than the 75 year old Eisenhower system's official rules.

I won't comment again on this, but I thought this forum was for people who enjoy our highways and the clear rules about them that help the general public. 540 was always meant to be temporary because they always knew it would take 30 plus years to complete and the 5 tells drivers that it is a single line highway from point A to Point B.

In 10 years it will no longer be that, the day that it will get you back to the same spot you started, at which time the 5 would confuse and misguide the (at minimum) 30% of the population who depend on the numbers to navigate the system.

[sprjus4]

at which time the 5 would confuse and misguide the (at minimum) 30% of the population who depend on the numbers to navigate the system.

Citation needed

[ARMOURERERIC]

It will eventually get an even digit 3di........287.

[The Ghostbuster]

I doubt there will be any additional 3dis of Interstate 87 in North Carolina, so the only 287 will be the existing one in New Jersey and New York. Personally, I agree that 540 should have been 640 to begin with. However, the only way to bring about a change in the numbering of the Raleigh beltway is to go back in time and try to persuade the powers-that-be to go with the 640 designation (fat chance!).

[sprjus4]

I doubt there will be any additional 3dis of Interstate 87 in North Carolina, so the only 287 will be the existing one in New Jersey and New York. Personally, I agree that 540 should have been 640 to begin with. However, the only way to bring about a change in the numbering of the Raleigh beltway is to go back in time and try to persuade the powers-that-be to go with the 640 designation (fat chance!).

Exactly this... while I-640 would've made sense to begin with, they are not going to go back after 40-50 years of "540"  established and swap the 5 for a 6. That is going to only add additional confusion. You would confuse more people changing the number vs. the odd digit confusing it's beltway status, especially in a time where everyone uses Google Maps, Waze, and other GPS services for routing.

[wdcrft63]

Raleigh ultimately will have a complete outer loop, even if it's 60% tolled until bond repayment, I say it will be renamed with an even first number.

We can all say different things. I say it won't be changed, because it will cause more confusion than help. It appeases roadgeeks and that's about it. And only some - I don't think it should be changed.

Well at least acknowledge that the entire US interstate system follows specific naming rules, and acknowledge you can't cite another completed loop in any of the 50 states that begins with an odd first digit number.

It seems like you think your opinion should hold more weight than the 75 year old Eisenhower system's official rules.

I won't comment again on this, but I thought this forum was for people who enjoy our highways and the clear rules about them that help the general public. 540 was always meant to be temporary because they always knew it would take 30 plus years to complete and the 5 tells drivers that it is a single line highway from point A to Point B.

In 10 years it will no longer be that, the day that it will get you back to the same spot you started, at which time the 5 would confuse and misguide the (at minimum) 30% of the population who depend on the numbers to navigate the system.

There are indeed specific numbering rules. Bureaucrats have been known to make mistakes in applying specific rules. They did in this case. The number 540 is a mistake. The discussion in the forum is about whether this mistake should be corrected. Reasonable people can disagree about this and airing disagreements honestly is an important function of an online forum.

[BlueRidge]

It will eventually get an even digit 3di........287.

Screw it, let's get really weird.

642

[Dirt Roads]

There are indeed specific numbering rules. Bureaucrats have been known to make mistakes in applying specific rules. They did in this case. The number 540 is a mistake. The discussion in the forum is about whether this mistake should be corrected. Reasonable people can disagree about this and airing disagreements honestly is an important function of an online forum.

Does anybody remember whether it was the FHWA or AASHTO that rejected NCDOT's original request to number the Raleigh Northern Arc as I-640?  I've tried searching several times and can no longer find this information in the NCDOT archives (nor any of the Roadgeek listings).  [Indeed, I was skeptical about whether North Carolina could build a qualified "loop" to deserve an "even 3DI", but nobody expected the Triangle to grow to over 2 million almost overnight].

[froggie]

There are indeed specific numbering rules. Bureaucrats have been known to make mistakes in applying specific rules. They did in this case. The number 540 is a mistake. The discussion in the forum is about whether this mistake should be corrected. Reasonable people can disagree about this and airing disagreements honestly is an important function of an online forum.

Does anybody remember whether it was the FHWA or AASHTO that rejected NCDOT's original request to number the Raleigh Northern Arc as I-640?  I've tried searching several times and can no longer find this information in the NCDOT archives (nor any of the Roadgeek listings).  [Indeed, I was skeptical about whether North Carolina could build a qualified "loop" to deserve an "even 3DI", but nobody expected the Triangle to grow to over 2 million almost overnight].

Did some digging:

• Nothing I was able to find in the AASHTO SCOH minutes suggests that they rejected 640.
• Per Brian LeBlanc's former I-540 webpage, NCDOT decided in 2002 that they would retain the 540 number instead of requesting it be changes to 640 upon completion.
• NCDOT further clarified this in their 2013 request for I-495.  I was able to find that letter (3rd page of the PDF) in the NCDOT Route Changes dataset.  Their letter to FHWA requested that 540 remain as such "due to public expectation, historic controversy, and economic burden of sign replacement.".  They further cite precedents in I-376 PA, I-390 NY, and I-590 NY.

[BlueRidge]

but I was told this is an unprecedented, egregious violation of federal law

[plain]

but I was told this is an unprecedented, egregious violation of federal law

NC = Zero Fucks Given

[froggie]

but I was told this is an unprecedented, egregious violation of federal law

It's not a LAW violation.  It's technically a numbering violation, but the Interstate system is riddled with such.

[BlueRidge]

but I was told this is an unprecedented, egregious violation of federal law

It's not a LAW violation.  It's technically a numbering violation, but the Interstate system is riddled with such.

"˜Twas but a flippant remark