3 Major Northern Virginia parkways (*NOT* NPS) now primary routes.

Started by froggie, February 16, 2012, 04:51:58 PM

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Takumi

I may have found some rationale for the assignment of 286, 289, and 294 as the route number: all three numbers' previous designations were eliminated in 1942, so says the VHP. Aside from VA 25, they were the longest out of commission.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
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Don't @ me. Seriously.


Mapmikey

Looking at the mileage being transferred for VA 286, it appears they did not take into the system the portion of SR 7100 essentially between I-95 and VA 289.

http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2012/feb/resol/Agenda_Item_3_Resolution.pdf

Did anyone notice that piece being taken into the primary system when it was completed?


Mapmikey

NE2

Quote from: Mapmikey on February 18, 2012, 07:46:05 PM
Looking at the mileage being transferred for VA 286, it appears they did not take into the system the portion of SR 7100 essentially between I-95 and VA 289.

http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2012/feb/resol/Agenda_Item_3_Resolution.pdf
Hmmm. I'm not sure exactly what it means, but check out the maps in http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2012/jan/Pre/Agenda_Item_7_SecToPrimaryCTBPresentationV6.pdf .
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Mapmikey

Thanks...

It appears that there were 2 segments of 7100 not technically in the SR system but one of them became primary anyway.

The gap shown on 7900 was also put into the primary system.

There is technically a small gap in VA 294 primary assignment as well, on the PW Pkwy between Hastings and Liberia/Wellington.

Mapmikey

Beltway

Quote from: froggie on February 16, 2012, 04:51:58 PM
Mapmikey and I knew this was being considered, but the CTB apparently went ahead and approved it yesterday.  Fairfax County Pkwy, Franconia-Springfield Pkwy, and Prince William Pkwy are all becoming primary routes:

- Fairfax County Pkwy will become VA 286.

- Franconia-Springfield Pkwy will become VA 289.  The designation will run as far east as Beulah St (SR 613).

Those two numbers are too similar, IMHO, for two highways that connect and form a branch.  The only difference in 3 digits is a last digit that is identical but is either turned up or turned down.

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cpzilliacus

Quote from: Mapmikey on February 18, 2012, 08:56:04 PM
There is technically a small gap in VA 294 primary assignment as well, on the PW Pkwy between Hastings and Liberia/Wellington.

Mikey, isn't that because that short segment of the Prince William Parkway is inside the corporate limits of the City of Manassas and thus maintained (per standard practice in Virginia) by the city and not by VDOT?

Though there are plenty of state (numbered) highways running though cities all around Virginia, so presumably even that short section in Manassas will be signed as Va. 294.
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Mapmikey

Yes, the 500 ft of the PW Pkwy in the City of Manassas is not maintained by VDOT.

However, the CTB has a legal process it has to follow in order to reimburse Manassas at the Primary Route $ rate instead of the "Other Streets" rate it would currently be sending.

This does not prevent the signing of VA 294 on this stretch (for precedent see US 60 Business in Virginia Beach, which was established as a posted route at the request of the city when US 60 was moved from Atlantic Ave to Pacific Ave but the CTB did not consider it primary mileage in Va Beach.

The CTB can elect to have the mileage enacted per the Urban Primary Program establish around 1980 (which is how most of the VA 401-420 routes were created) if it qualifies and if that legal authority still exists.  Apparently when an independent city expands is boundary and swallows existing primary routes it is a stroke of the pen to convert the new primary mileage into the city's payment.

Mapmikey

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Mapmikey on February 19, 2012, 06:53:40 PM
Yes, the 500 ft of the PW Pkwy in the City of Manassas is not maintained by VDOT.

However, the CTB has a legal process it has to follow in order to reimburse Manassas at the Primary Route $ rate instead of the "Other Streets" rate it would currently be sending.

Though given how short that segment of Prince William Parkway is, it would almost make sense for VDOT to and Manassas to make an exception to current policy and just have VDOT maintain it, though I don't know what would be needed to make such an exception happen.

QuoteThis does not prevent the signing of VA 294 on this stretch (for precedent see US 60 Business in Virginia Beach, which was established as a posted route at the request of the city when US 60 was moved from Atlantic Ave to Pacific Ave but the CTB did not consider it primary mileage in Va Beach.

The CTB can elect to have the mileage enacted per the Urban Primary Program establish around 1980 (which is how most of the VA 401-420 routes were created) if it qualifies and if that legal authority still exists.  Apparently when an independent city expands is boundary and swallows existing primary routes it is a stroke of the pen to convert the new primary mileage into the city's payment.

Are there still state routes numbers (beyond I-264, U.S. 58, U.S. 60 and U.S. 60 Business) in Virginia Beach?  I've not been down that way for 10 or more years - I recall that many of the major streets had state route numbers (quite possibly left over from the days when most of present-day Virginia Beach was Princess Anne County), but that could have changed.
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Takumi

VA 149, VA 165, VA 166, VA 190, VA 225, VA 279, and VA 343 all still exist in VA Beach. VA 305 is still posted but hasn't been extant since 1960. I might have left off a couple as well.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

1995hoo

Quote from: Takumi on February 16, 2012, 07:39:47 PM
Same. Probably March for me.

As of this afternoon, no new signs yet on the Franconia—Springfield Parkway nor the portion of the Fairfax County Parkway between the Rolling Road and VA-123 interchanges. As of Saturday the signs on I-66 and US-50 hadn't changed, either. I'll keep my eyes peeled in the coming weeks and will post something if/when I see new signs. I use those roads pretty frequently to avoid the work zone on the Beltway and the traffic lights in Springfield.
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commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 28, 2012, 02:26:57 PM
Quote from: Takumi on February 16, 2012, 07:39:47 PM
Same. Probably March for me.

As of this afternoon, no new signs yet on the Franconia—Springfield Parkway nor the portion of the Fairfax County Parkway between the Rolling Road and VA-123 interchanges. As of Saturday the signs on I-66 and US-50 hadn't changed, either. I'll keep my eyes peeled in the coming weeks and will post something if/when I see new signs. I use those roads pretty frequently to avoid the work zone on the Beltway and the traffic lights in Springfield.

I drove the southern section of (what is still signed as) 7100 yesterday (between U.S. 1 and (what is still signed as) 7900).  No indication of any pending route number change, though I did take the opportunity to snap a few images with my  Blackberry. 

No sign of any impending changes on I-95 either.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

HighwayMaster

This will be interesting when all is said and done. I'm not sure if I like this or not. I probably will, but we'll see.

BTW, cpzilliacus, it will probably be a while for VDOT to put new signs up.
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1995hoo

I just saw a report that 24 miles of the Fairfax County Parkway will receive a much-overdue repaving later this year. Perhaps the new route number signs might be posted then. As of this past Thursday, which was my most recent drive on the Franconia—Springfield Parkway, no signs had been changed.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 27, 2012, 02:41:13 PM
I just saw a report that 24 miles of the Fairfax County Parkway will receive a much-overdue repaving later this year.

That's great news. Much of 7100 (especially south of I-66 and the north  of the new(est) segment between the Va. 638 (Rolling Road)/Va. 7900 (Franconia Springfield Parkway) interchange and I-95) is in terrible condition.  Including some of the on- and off-ramps. 

QuotePerhaps the new route number signs might be posted then. As of this past Thursday, which was my most recent drive on the Franconia—Springfield Parkway, no signs had been changed.

Maybe the sign work will be written into the repaving contract?
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Beltway

Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 28, 2012, 10:21:02 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 27, 2012, 02:41:13 PM
Perhaps the new route number signs might be posted then. As of this past Thursday, which was my most recent drive on the Franconia—Springfield Parkway, no signs had been changed.

Maybe the sign work will be written into the repaving contract?

Very doubtful.  Asphalt resurfacing is typically performed by an asphalt paving specialist.  They would have to sub out the sign work.

VDOT sign shops and state forces could do the resigning work, or they could contract it in a single bid package.
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1995hoo

Yeah, I wasn't necessarily envisioning that the sign replacement would be part of the same project, just that maybe they might do it at the same time. My thought process was essentially that if you're already closing lanes, or one carriageway, to pave it, you might as well do the signs (especially any overhead signs) at the same time to get all the disruptive stuff done at once.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Beltway on March 28, 2012, 12:16:19 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 28, 2012, 10:21:02 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 27, 2012, 02:41:13 PM
Perhaps the new route number signs might be posted then. As of this past Thursday, which was my most recent drive on the Franconia—Springfield Parkway, no signs had been changed.

Maybe the sign work will be written into the repaving contract?

Very doubtful.  Asphalt resurfacing is typically performed by an asphalt paving specialist.  They would have to sub out the sign work.

Agreed. 

Maryland SHA usually does "safety and resurface" projects, which includes milling and re-paving, and frequently includes sign replacement. 

But I have not observed VDOT do that on repaving projects.

QuoteVDOT sign shops and state forces could do the resigning work, or they could contract it in a single bid package.

Resigning all of present-day 7100 and 7900 is going to be a pretty large sign project, since those route numbers appear on numerous BGSs on those roads, and on each intersecting highways. 

3000 is not quite as large, since it only crosses one freeway (I-95) and it is shorter than 7100.

I wonder if the NoVa District has enough people to do a sign project of the scale required for 7100 and 7900.
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WillWeaverRVA

I drove part of the Prince William Parkway over the weekend, and no hints of any new signage yet. Lots of SR 3000 signage still remains.
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Ian

Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on April 09, 2012, 07:45:15 PM
I drove part of the Prince William Parkway over the weekend, and no hints of any new signage yet. Lots of SR 3000 signage still remains.

Same goes for the Fairfax County Parkway and SR 7100. Was just on the part between VA 7 and VA 267 this past Friday.
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1995hoo

The Franconia—Springfield Parkway was signed as 7900 as of 2:30 this afternoon.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Henry

Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 16, 2012, 07:25:39 PM
Maryland's signs at the U.S. 50 ("Secret" I-595) used to read "U.S. 50 John Hanson Highway," which was good for the purpose of not confusing it with "U.S. 50 Arlington Boulevard." The mention of John Hanson Highway was removed when the old cloverleaf interchange was reconstructed in the late 1980's and all of the signs were replaced.

Another bad is "295," there being I-295 at the Maryland end of the Wilson Bridge, and "secret" Md. 295, otherwise known as the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, in Greenbelt (even though the National Park Service, never, ever calls it 295).
At least the interchanges where I-95 enters/exits the Beltway are distinctly named from one another (College Park and Springfield), so one can know which end the reporter is referring to (like "I-95 from the Springfield Interchange to Alexandria").
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froggie

Had reason to be in Newington yesterday afternoon.  Still signed as 7100 from I-95.

froggie

Took a roadtrip this morning that included the entire length of the Fairfax County and Prince William Parkways and also passed by Franconia-Springfield Parkway.  No new route signs have been posted as far as I could see.

1995hoo

I passed by the eastern end of the Franconia—Springfield Parkway yesterday (going from Springfield to Kingstowne via Franconia Road--->Fleet Drive--->Beulah Street) and drove on both Fairfax County routes multiple times in the past week and I noted the same thing froggie did.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

NE2

According to Josh Doe at OSM, SR 286 is now posted, at least between Burke Centre and Braddock.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".



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