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Author Topic: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.  (Read 3151 times)

Alex

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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2022, 11:01:10 PM »

Isn't this kind of similar to Utah's usage of "Salt Lake" on their signage for their capital city. I always found that kind of unique but I'm under an impression that it may have stopped recently.

Good comparison. At least UDOT has been replacing distance signs with "Salt Lake" to add City.
Okla City is just outdated signing practices meant to shorten signs from early years of the Interstate system. That's my theory at least...

Other examples that should just go away like Okla City:
Colo Spgs and Grand Jct in Colorado. The signs for Grand Jct almost convey that it is a giant intersection along I-70.
Daytona Bch, heck most Beach cities in FL are abbreviated with Bch as are Springs with Spgs.
Va Beach for Virginia Beach

These signing practices are similar to outdated state abbreviations still used.
Jackson, Miss instead of MS by TDOT in Memphis
Several instances of Fla in Florida, the worst example "Univ of Fla" on guide signs along I-75 in Gainesville.
There are still several older signs in KS that use Neb for Nebraska, I'm sure some are carbon copied.

Scott5114

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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2022, 03:36:04 AM »

I don't know that the use of abbreviations longer than two letters is necessarily outdated. "Okla." is still a perfectly acceptable abbreviation, especially in more formal writing where "OK" would be out of place.
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skluth

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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2022, 02:05:37 PM »

I don't know that the use of abbreviations longer than two letters is necessarily outdated. "Okla." is still a perfectly acceptable abbreviation, especially in more formal writing where "OK" would be out of place.
It's the old official government abbreviation before USPS changed them all to two letter codes back in the sixties.
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Road Hog

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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2022, 07:20:24 PM »

The newish I-40 construction between North Little Rock and Conway actually incorporated Oklahoma City spelt out as a control city on overhead gantries. But you won't find it again on a ground-based BGS until you pass the I-540 junction in Van Buren. Once you cross the line, it reverts to Okla. City.

(Which I don't mind in any setting. The abbreviation at that point is understood and apparent. It's not like there is an Oklafornia City or an Oklachusetts City.)
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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2022, 07:28:00 PM »

I don't know that the use of abbreviations longer than two letters is necessarily outdated. "Okla." is still a perfectly acceptable abbreviation, especially in more formal writing where "OK" would be out of place.

I mean, I'd assume saying the city is just OK would be insulting for some people living there.
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Road Hog

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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2022, 07:32:45 PM »

Associated Press style (which most written-word news services still use) has shifted in some instances to spelling out the state name (i.e. Oklahoma), but Okla. is still an acceptable abbreviation. OK is the Postal Service abbreviation.
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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2022, 07:46:48 PM »

Better to do that than to eliminate the word "city" altogether, which I've seen done for NYC sometimes.

New York on a road sign shouldn't really be interpreted as the state, due to how widespread the state's area is and the fact that usually there's different best routes to different parts of the state. For example, from Ohio you would use I-90 to Buffalo or I-80 to New York [City]. Or from Georgia/Carolinas, you would use I-77 (to I-79 to I-90) to Buffalo and I-81 or I-95 to New York [City]. (Thus, my opinion in general is that entire states are not appropriate "control cities" for freeways).
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Bobby5280

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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2022, 07:58:17 PM »

"Okla" makes me think of Okra.
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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2022, 08:01:03 PM »

I'd be OK with abbreviating Salt Lake City as SL City the same way NY City can sometimes be found. Anyone traveling on I-80 or I-15 is going to know what SL City is.
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Scott5114

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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2022, 08:19:14 PM »

I don't know that the use of abbreviations longer than two letters is necessarily outdated. "Okla." is still a perfectly acceptable abbreviation, especially in more formal writing where "OK" would be out of place.

I mean, I'd assume saying the city is just OK would be insulting for some people living there.

Eh, we're used to the abbreviation enough that I doubt anyone would take offense (and our license plate slogan for years was "Oklahoma is OK"). But seeing it abbreviated "OK City" is a pretty reliable sign that someone isn't from around here—the preferred colloquial abbreviation has always been "OKC".
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Bobby5280

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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2022, 09:02:16 PM »

Some people here in Lawton refer to Oklahoma City as "OKC." Many refer to OKC simply as "The City."
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Scott5114

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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2022, 09:09:45 PM »

Some people here in Lawton refer to Oklahoma City as "OKC." Many refer to OKC simply as "The City."

Same is true in Norman ("I have to go up to the city today to get my taxes done").
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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2022, 11:16:32 PM »

I'd be OK with abbreviating Salt Lake City as SL City the same way NY City can sometimes be found. Anyone traveling on I-80 or I-15 is going to know what SL City is.
No.  New York is commonly abbreviated as NY.

Makes me wonder about SLC, though.  I used that for years mailing stuff to my grandparents (as did my father before me).
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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2022, 12:13:16 AM »

I saw Tool last month at the BOK Center in Tulsa. During the show, Maynard James Keenan said "Tulsa. It's like Oklahoma City, but better." I thought that was hilarious. I'm sure a significant portion of the crowd came to see the show from OKC. I wonder if it pissed them off.
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Bobby5280

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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2022, 11:14:35 AM »

It's possible the dig at OKC from Maynard James Keenan might be from OKC's strange position in recent years of getting skipped by many rock band tours. Over the past 10-15 years I've noticed a great deal of popular music acts playing Tulsa venues like the BOK Center or Cain's Ballroom but not having any dates in OKC at all.

The Paycom Center (aka Chesapeake Arena & originally the Ford Center) where the OKC Thunder play rarely ever hosts rock concerts. I did see Nine Inch Nails play there in 2007 (awesome concert; they made a Blu-ray concert video from the show). Most other arena-sized concerts I've seen in OKC have been at across the street at the Myriad Convention Center (later called the Cox Convention Center). I watched a decent number of minor league hockey games there too. That arena opened in 1972 and was showing its age 20+ years ago. The venue is now being turned into some kind of a movie/TV production studio.

Slipknot headlined one concert I saw at the Myriad (System of a Down and Rammstein were also on the bill). Slipknot put on a great show, but singer Corey Taylor annoyed the hell out of me by calling Oklahoma City "Oak City" when calling out to the audience. Ugh. I guess he was trying to sound out the "OK" abbreviation. Does anyone living in Oklahoma actually call OKC "Oak City?"

The Zoo Amphitheater is the only other venue in Oklahoma City that can host big rock concerts, but the venue is really old and not all that appealing a concert stop to top name music acts. The old Civic Center Music Hall is more for high brow performances, not rock concerts.
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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2022, 11:29:15 AM »

It's possible the dig at OKC from Maynard James Keenan might be from OKC's strange position in recent years of getting skipped by many rock band tours. Over the past 10-15 years I've noticed a great deal of popular music acts playing Tulsa venues like the BOK Center or Cain's Ballroom but not having any dates in OKC at all.

The Paycom Center (aka Chesapeake Arena & originally the Ford Center) where the OKC Thunder play rarely ever hosts rock concerts. I did see Nine Inch Nails play there in 2007 (awesome concert; they made a Blu-ray concert video from the show). Most other arena-sized concerts I've seen in OKC have been at across the street at the Myriad Convention Center (later called the Cox Convention Center). I watched a decent number of minor league hockey games there too. That arena opened in 1972 and was showing its age 20+ years ago. The venue is now being turned into some kind of a movie/TV production studio.

Slipknot headlined one concert I saw at the Myriad (System of a Down and Rammstein were also on the bill). Slipknot put on a great show, but singer Corey Taylor annoyed the hell out of me by calling Oklahoma City "Oak City" when calling out to the audience. Ugh. I guess he was trying to sound out the "OK" abbreviation. Does anyone living in Oklahoma actually call OKC "Oak City?"

The Zoo Amphitheater is the only other venue in Oklahoma City that can host big rock concerts, but the venue is really old and not all that appealing a concert stop to top name music acts. The old Civic Center Music Hall is more for high brow performances, not rock concerts.
Dallas and Kansas City would be better suited for rock concerts, but who'd want to drive a couple hundred miles to either city just to see them play? Plus, Oklahoma City would be more in line with hosting country artists anyway (seeing that Carrie Underwood, the Season 4 winner of American Idol, is from Checotah, which is a stone's throw away to the east on I-40). As for the "Oak City" thing, it makes me think of Oakland, CA (but has anyone ever called it that?), which is more deserving of the nickname because, after all, it has Oak in its name.
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Scott5114

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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2022, 03:36:07 PM »

It's possible the dig at OKC from Maynard James Keenan might be from OKC's strange position in recent years of getting skipped by many rock band tours. Over the past 10-15 years I've noticed a great deal of popular music acts playing Tulsa venues like the BOK Center or Cain's Ballroom but not having any dates in OKC at all.

The Paycom Center (aka Chesapeake Arena & originally the Ford Center) where the OKC Thunder play rarely ever hosts rock concerts. I did see Nine Inch Nails play there in 2007 (awesome concert; they made a Blu-ray concert video from the show). Most other arena-sized concerts I've seen in OKC have been at across the street at the Myriad Convention Center (later called the Cox Convention Center). I watched a decent number of minor league hockey games there too. That arena opened in 1972 and was showing its age 20+ years ago. The venue is now being turned into some kind of a movie/TV production studio.

The OKC live show situation has a lot of moving parts to it. I believe Paycom/Chesapeake doesn't host concerts very often because the Thunder's lease dictates a level of access that ends up being incompatible with concerts in practice. Many of the remaining venues in town are owned by groups that also own the venues in Tulsa, and when they are given a single date, for some reason they prefer to schedule it in Tulsa. Must be more profitable for them somehow. Or the companies are just run by Tulsan homers.

Unfortunately for the venue owners, the city is maturing to the point that they now have people coming into money in OKC saying "why doesn't OKC ever get good concerts?" and opening new independent venues here to break the logjam. As a result the OKC concert-going crowd is starting to sour on the idea of driving the 90 minutes to Tulsa to go to a show. "Eh...I really want to see X group, but their tour is only going to Tulsa...but the Jones Assembly here in OKC is having Y that weekend, and I've been kinda wanting to see them too..."

Does anyone living in Oklahoma actually call OKC "Oak City?"
No.

Dallas and Kansas City would be better suited for rock concerts, but who'd want to drive a couple hundred miles to either city just to see them play? Plus, Oklahoma City would be more in line with hosting country artists anyway (seeing that Carrie Underwood, the Season 4 winner of American Idol, is from Checotah, which is a stone's throw away to the east on I-40).

Bad take. There are more country fans in OKC than there are in other cities, but OKC is still a city, and by and large the population has just as diverse a taste in music as any other US city. Not putting on rock concerts here is simply leaving money on the table. The casinos tend to hold most of the country concerts, and that's honestly a better place for them since they're all on the outskirts of the metro and closer to the actual country.

Also Checotah is closer to Tulsa than it is OKC. I don't really know how that's relevant, though; they produced one artist. Otherwise, it's a fairly unremarkable highway crossroads town. Nashville they ain't. (And besides, if that was relevant, it would actually be more of an argument for OKC to hold more rock concerts; OKC produced the Flaming Lips, after all.)
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skluth

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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2022, 05:59:39 PM »

It's possible the dig at OKC from Maynard James Keenan might be from OKC's strange position in recent years of getting skipped by many rock band tours. Over the past 10-15 years I've noticed a great deal of popular music acts playing Tulsa venues like the BOK Center or Cain's Ballroom but not having any dates in OKC at all.

The Paycom Center (aka Chesapeake Arena & originally the Ford Center) where the OKC Thunder play rarely ever hosts rock concerts. I did see Nine Inch Nails play there in 2007 (awesome concert; they made a Blu-ray concert video from the show). Most other arena-sized concerts I've seen in OKC have been at across the street at the Myriad Convention Center (later called the Cox Convention Center). I watched a decent number of minor league hockey games there too. That arena opened in 1972 and was showing its age 20+ years ago. The venue is now being turned into some kind of a movie/TV production studio.

The OKC live show situation has a lot of moving parts to it. I believe Paycom/Chesapeake doesn't host concerts very often because the Thunder's lease dictates a level of access that ends up being incompatible with concerts in practice. Many of the remaining venues in town are owned by groups that also own the venues in Tulsa, and when they are given a single date, for some reason they prefer to schedule it in Tulsa. Must be more profitable for them somehow. Or the companies are just run by Tulsan homers.

Unfortunately for the venue owners, the city is maturing to the point that they now have people coming into money in OKC saying "why doesn't OKC ever get good concerts?" and opening new independent venues here to break the logjam. As a result the OKC concert-going crowd is starting to sour on the idea of driving the 90 minutes to Tulsa to go to a show. "Eh...I really want to see X group, but their tour is only going to Tulsa...but the Jones Assembly here in OKC is having Y that weekend, and I've been kinda wanting to see them too..."

Does anyone living in Oklahoma actually call OKC "Oak City?"
No.

Dallas and Kansas City would be better suited for rock concerts, but who'd want to drive a couple hundred miles to either city just to see them play? Plus, Oklahoma City would be more in line with hosting country artists anyway (seeing that Carrie Underwood, the Season 4 winner of American Idol, is from Checotah, which is a stone's throw away to the east on I-40).

Bad take. There are more country fans in OKC than there are in other cities, but OKC is still a city, and by and large the population has just as diverse a taste in music as any other US city. Not putting on rock concerts here is simply leaving money on the table. The casinos tend to hold most of the country concerts, and that's honestly a better place for them since they're all on the outskirts of the metro and closer to the actual country.

Also Checotah is closer to Tulsa than it is OKC. I don't really know how that's relevant, though; they produced one artist. Otherwise, it's a fairly unremarkable highway crossroads town. Nashville they ain't. (And besides, if that was relevant, it would actually be more of an argument for OKC to hold more rock concerts; OKC produced the Flaming Lips, after all.)
OKC also produced 90's teen heartthrobs Color Me Bad. OTOH, Tulsa produced Dwight Twilley who rocked with Tom Petty. Point, Tulsa.
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Scott5114

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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2022, 06:18:38 PM »

Tulsa also produced Hanson, so I feel like they end up in the red with that one taken into account.

My wife went to a show at the BOK Center once (think it was Ed Sheeran) where the opener unexpectedly dropped out last-minute, and the only group that could be found that could make it to the venue quickly enough was Hanson. They were reportedly quite amused by the whole thing, and my wife said they turned in a surprisingly decent performance. (But it was still Hanson.)
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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2022, 08:34:48 PM »

It's possible the dig at OKC from Maynard James Keenan might be from OKC's strange position in recent years of getting skipped by many rock band tours. Over the past 10-15 years I've noticed a great deal of popular music acts playing Tulsa venues like the BOK Center or Cain's Ballroom but not having any dates in OKC at all.

The Paycom Center (aka Chesapeake Arena & originally the Ford Center) where the OKC Thunder play rarely ever hosts rock concerts. I did see Nine Inch Nails play there in 2007 (awesome concert; they made a Blu-ray concert video from the show). Most other arena-sized concerts I've seen in OKC have been at across the street at the Myriad Convention Center (later called the Cox Convention Center). I watched a decent number of minor league hockey games there too. That arena opened in 1972 and was showing its age 20+ years ago. The venue is now being turned into some kind of a movie/TV production studio.

The OKC live show situation has a lot of moving parts to it. I believe Paycom/Chesapeake doesn't host concerts very often because the Thunder's lease dictates a level of access that ends up being incompatible with concerts in practice. Many of the remaining venues in town are owned by groups that also own the venues in Tulsa, and when they are given a single date, for some reason they prefer to schedule it in Tulsa. Must be more profitable for them somehow. Or the companies are just run by Tulsan homers.

Unfortunately for the venue owners, the city is maturing to the point that they now have people coming into money in OKC saying "why doesn't OKC ever get good concerts?" and opening new independent venues here to break the logjam. As a result the OKC concert-going crowd is starting to sour on the idea of driving the 90 minutes to Tulsa to go to a show. "Eh...I really want to see X group, but their tour is only going to Tulsa...but the Jones Assembly here in OKC is having Y that weekend, and I've been kinda wanting to see them too..."

Does anyone living in Oklahoma actually call OKC "Oak City?"
No.

Dallas and Kansas City would be better suited for rock concerts, but who'd want to drive a couple hundred miles to either city just to see them play? Plus, Oklahoma City would be more in line with hosting country artists anyway (seeing that Carrie Underwood, the Season 4 winner of American Idol, is from Checotah, which is a stone's throw away to the east on I-40).

Bad take. There are more country fans in OKC than there are in other cities, but OKC is still a city, and by and large the population has just as diverse a taste in music as any other US city. Not putting on rock concerts here is simply leaving money on the table. The casinos tend to hold most of the country concerts, and that's honestly a better place for them since they're all on the outskirts of the metro and closer to the actual country.

Also Checotah is closer to Tulsa than it is OKC. I don't really know how that's relevant, though; they produced one artist. Otherwise, it's a fairly unremarkable highway crossroads town. Nashville they ain't. (And besides, if that was relevant, it would actually be more of an argument for OKC to hold more rock concerts; OKC produced the Flaming Lips, after all.)
OKC also produced 90's teen heartthrobs Color Me Bad. OTOH, Tulsa produced Dwight Twilley who rocked with Tom Petty. Point, Tulsa.

Dwight Twilley and Tom Petty were both discovered by Tulsa's Leon Russell and originally signed to his record label at the Church Studio in Tulsa. Elton John called Russell his mentor and an inspiration. Aside from his own hits, Russell played with everyone from The Stones, Eric Clapton, The Beach Boys, Joe Cocker, Dylan, Ringo and George Harrison.

Eric Clapton used to hang out in Tulsa at Russell's house along with Tulsa's JJ Cale, who was Clapton's own guitar hero and who wrote Cocaine. Clapton's favorite couch to sleep on is on display at The Cains. Russell also discovered and signed the funk icons, The GAP Band. GAP standing for Greenwood, Archer and Pine, the main streets in the Greenwood District, AKA Black Wall Street.
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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2022, 04:48:55 PM »

^^^^

Things I didn'f expect to learn today: "You Dropped A Bomb On Me" was an Oklahoma export.
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Bobby5280

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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2022, 08:38:30 PM »

Quote from: Scott5114
Unfortunately for the venue owners, the city is maturing to the point that they now have people coming into money in OKC saying "why doesn't OKC ever get good concerts?" and opening new independent venues here to break the logjam. As a result the OKC concert-going crowd is starting to sour on the idea of driving the 90 minutes to Tulsa to go to a show.

Geez, they ought to think about how I feel farther Southwest in Lawton. I don't mind driving a little over an hour up the turnpike to see a big name music act performing live in Oklahoma City. Driving 200 miles to Tulsa to see a live concert is considerably more difficult, and even worse if the concert is on a weeknight. If I'm going to see a band play live in Tulsa or Dallas I pretty much have to time that on a weekend. I wanted to see Queens of the Stone Age when they played live in Tulsa a couple or so years ago. But I couldn't make the road trip work.
 :-/
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Re: ODOT's insistence on abbreviating Oklahoma City as Okla. City. everywhere.
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2022, 03:06:16 PM »

New monotubes that went up near Ardmore a few months ago feature no control cities on the 35 thru traffic signs.  Of course their predecessors didn't either, but I always thought it was weird to not list any control cities on the overheads for the multiplexed I-35/US 70 run.
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