California

[FredAkbar]

Actually, now would be a better time than ever to complete the original plans. San Francisco has not returned to its original state pre-pandemic. Sad to see the state that City is in.

Have you actually been there and seen it for yourself, or are you just making this assumption based on what the media tells you?

No comment on the overall state of the city, but I will say, if there were ever a city where I felt like the road decisions were deliberately made to screw over drivers, it's SF. I lived there from 2015-2023 and bit by bit, the inconveniences to driving crept up. To name a few:

1) Great Highway & JFK closure 
2) reduction from 4 lanes to 2 on South Van Ness 
3) pedestrian head starts everywhere, even where it barely makes any sense to have them 
4) comically inefficient signal configurations like 5th & Folsom, where to turn right from NB 5th onto Folsom you must wait through 3 other phases (only one of which even has pedestrians/bicyclists crossing Folsom)

And you know what, it's okay. I moved out to the suburbs and I couldn't be happier. If the people of SF want driving to be insanely inefficient (whether to encourage mass transit, or to pursue hopeless dreams of zero traffic deaths), it's their city, they can govern it how they want.

[Max Rockatansky]

Speaking of SF, what is up with most of the signage of US 101 being recently pulled on Van Ness?

[citrus]

Speaking of SF, what is up with most of the signage of US 101 being recently pulled on Van Ness?

Recently as in the last few months, or the last few years?
If the latter, my guess is that most of the signs were attached to poles that were replaced / taken down as part of the bus lanes work, and nobody really thought to replace them.

This would be Caltrans jurisdiction, right?

[Max Rockatansky]

Speaking of SF, what is up with most of the signage of US 101 being recently pulled on Van Ness?

Recently as in the last few months, or the last few years?
If the latter, my guess is that most of the signs were attached to poles that were replaced / taken down as part of the bus lanes work, and nobody really thought to replace them.

This would be Caltrans jurisdiction, right?

Yes, District 4.

[Quillz]

Poor signage is pretty common. A lot of PCH is barely signed between Santa Monica and Oxnard. Sometimes the shields get stolen and not replaced.

[Max Rockatansky]

1 and 35 are both still fairly well signed in the city.

[Rothman]

I loved living in SF.  Didn't have a car and it was easy enough to get around.  Of course, that was many moons ago now.  Been meaning to get back.

[Max Rockatansky]

I like visiting San Francisco.  I'd go as far to say that I find it be the most interesting large city in California.  That said, liking to visit a place and desiring to live there are two different things. 

Speaking for myself, I don't recall the things I liked about living in downtown Chicago outweighing those I disliked.  That is probably the closest living situation I've had to what would  be similar to living in San Francisco.

[Plutonic Panda]

Actually, now would be a better time than ever to complete the original plans. San Francisco has not returned to its original state pre-pandemic. Sad to see the state that City is in.

Huh.  I've mixed-up everyone's backgrounds now.  I forgot you were in the Bay Area.

I'm in the bay area once every other week. You do realize that it is possible to travel from one area to the other, right?

And just so you know the various Bay Area cities and their vibes are completely different from San Francisco and Oakland.

[Plutonic Panda]

Actually, now would be a better time than ever to complete the original plans. San Francisco has not returned to its original state pre-pandemic. Sad to see the state that City is in.

The state of the city is maybe 5-10% worse than before the pandemic, but news articles make the world think it is 10x worse.
Now's not the time to complete previous freeway plans. Hayes Valley, the Marina, the Inner Sunset (where cancelled freeways were supposed to go through) are areas that have all recovered from the pandemic and would be much worse off with freeways running through them - it's really the Union Square and Financial District areas that have changed.

You are very right that the news is making it far worse than the situation really is. But my larger point is San Francisco proper doesn't seem to have recovered like other cities have Los Angeles. Oakland is in the same category as San Francisco, but I think for different reasons because of the crime rates which are pretty bad now, but with San Francisco are over by the news, particularly the conservative news outlets. With that being said, they are pretty bad and I do believe the governor has announced he is a pretty large California patrol presence as an attempt to curb some of the crimes.

Now my freeway comment was more or less tongue in cheek, though I would like to see a lot of the propose freeways built in San Francisco I would want them built as tunnels. But I digress before we get in the complete fantasy territory and go off-topic.

[Rothman]

Actually, now would be a better time than ever to complete the original plans. San Francisco has not returned to its original state pre-pandemic. Sad to see the state that City is in.

Huh.  I've mixed-up everyone's backgrounds now.  I forgot you were in the Bay Area.

I'm in the bay area once every other week. You do realize that it is possible to travel from one area to the other, right?

And just so you know the various Bay Area cities and their vibes are completely different from San Francisco and Oakland.

Well, yeah.  I lived there.

Looks like I flipped your snooty switch on.

[Max Rockatansky]

Actually, now would be a better time than ever to complete the original plans. San Francisco has not returned to its original state pre-pandemic. Sad to see the state that City is in.

Huh.  I've mixed-up everyone's backgrounds now.  I forgot you were in the Bay Area.

I'm in the bay area once every other week. You do realize that it is possible to travel from one area to the other, right?

And just so you know the various Bay Area cities and their vibes are completely different from San Francisco and Oakland.

Well, yeah.  I lived there.

Looks like I flipped your snooty switch on.

That's assumptive.  I was just visiting San Francisco a week ago.  How does not wanting to live in a dense urban area but otherwise liking to visit come off as "snooty" to you?  I also enjoy visiting cities like Seattle and Portland for similar reasons. 

At the end of the day, if one wants to live in a dense city like San Francisco there are certain things one must adapt to.  Not having constant access to personal transportation and stuff like freeways would be among those items.  If you think those kinds of thing isn't for you then perhaps it is best just to live somewhere else. 

[Rothman]

Actually, now would be a better time than ever to complete the original plans. San Francisco has not returned to its original state pre-pandemic. Sad to see the state that City is in.

Huh.  I've mixed-up everyone's backgrounds now.  I forgot you were in the Bay Area.

I'm in the bay area once every other week. You do realize that it is possible to travel from one area to the other, right?

And just so you know the various Bay Area cities and their vibes are completely different from San Francisco and Oakland.

Well, yeah.  I lived there.

Looks like I flipped your snooty switch on.

That's assumptive.  I was just visiting San Francisco a week ago.  How does not wanting to live in a dense urban area but otherwise liking to visit come off as "snooty" to you?  I also enjoy visiting cities like Seattle and Portland for similar reasons. 

At the end of the day, if one wants to live in a dense city like San Francisco there are certain things one must adapt to.  Not having constant access to personal transportation and stuff like freeways would be among those items.  If you think those kinds of thing isn't for you then perhaps it is best just to live somewhere else.

Wut?

No one was talking to you...

[Plutonic Panda]

I love San Francisco. It really hurt me to see it how it was in 2020. Sure it's improved but not as fast as LA. No doubt it'll make a comeback. It's too beautiful and unique of a city not to. But the contrast of one of side of the Golden Gate Bridge and the other is shocking.

[Techknow]

I too visited SF a few times this month, with both friends and family. I didn't get the impression that the city hasn't "recovered". Instead I felt like there's lot of traffic, lots of people and it took time to find street parking, but none of the places I went were around the downtown area instead I was at Crissy Field and Japantown last Saturday.

Also I noticed for the first time that Park Presidio Blvd (CA 1) has a HOV lane now. It's actually part of a pilot program that started in 2020, so yeah I'm quite late in my observation. I don't know if it makes a big difference, it took me 30+ minutes to drive from the southern part/edge of the city using CA 1 to the Golden Gate Bridge and Crissy Field.

[Quillz]

I too visited SF a few times this month, with both friends and family. I didn't get the impression that the city hasn't "recovered". Instead I felt like there's lot of traffic, lots of people and it took time to find street parking, but none of the places I went were around the downtown area instead I was at Crissy Field and Japantown last Saturday.

Also I noticed for the first time that Park Presidio Blvd (CA 1) has a HOV lane now. It's actually part of a pilot program that started in 2020, so yeah I'm quite late in my observation. I don't know if it makes a big difference, it took me 30+ minutes to drive from the southern part/edge of the city using CA 1 to the Golden Gate Bridge and Crissy Field.

Mainly because "recovery" is a meaningless term that is more dependent on one's politics than anything else. Last time I went to SF, it seemed as it was in the 00s and 90s. Same complaints, same kind of people, etc. COVID happened but I've not seen anything dramatically changed. To me, there was nothing to recover from. But my perspective is more a visitor, living there would be different.

[TheStranger]

Last time I went to SF, it seemed as it was in the 00s and 90s. Same complaints, same kind of people, etc. COVID happened but I've not seen anything dramatically changed. To me, there was nothing to recover from. But my perspective is more a visitor, living there would be different.

The retail pullout from downtown has been pretty staggering in the last 2-3 years, with Macy's recently announcing the year-end closure of their iconic Union Square west coast flagship store.  The planned redevelopment of the Crocker Galleria food court/mini-mall in the Financial District has instead left that structure with only two or three open shops.

The areas that seem to be doing better are the more far-flung areas within the city, i.e. compare Stonestown Mall with its crowds and food options, to the downtown San Francisco Centre which Westfield divested and which has lost tenants consistently.  (Stonestown also has the advantage of free parking in a nicer area)

[Plutonic Panda]

Last time I went to SF, it seemed as it was in the 00s and 90s. Same complaints, same kind of people, etc. COVID happened but I've not seen anything dramatically changed. To me, there was nothing to recover from. But my perspective is more a visitor, living there would be different.

The retail pullout from downtown has been pretty staggering in the last 2-3 years, with Macy's recently announcing the year-end closure of their iconic Union Square west coast flagship store.  The planned redevelopment of the Crocker Galleria food court/mini-mall in the Financial District has instead left that structure with only two or three open shops.

The areas that seem to be doing better are the more far-flung areas within the city, i.e. compare Stonestown Mall with its crowds and food options, to the downtown San Francisco Centre which Westfield divested and which has lost tenants consistently.  (Stonestown also has the advantage of free parking in a nicer area)

When I speak of San Francisco, I'm speaking San Francisco proper. I'm actually considering buying a row home somewhere near Golden Gate Park because I love it so much. Everyone sees things in a different lens, but I have definitely noticed the city is not the same since the pandemic. A lot of places aren't, but they have recovered to a degree. I really can't say the same thing about San Francisco.

A lot of people here would think I'm just making things up if I were to tell you what I witnessed on some of my previous trips, especially at night.

[Quillz]

People would probably think I'm lying about what I witnessed that one night in Alaska, too. I get it, we have all experienced stuff we would best want to forget. I've been nervous about going back to "the dome" ever since.

[Max Rockatansky]

My dad and I witnessed a shooting leaving a Tigers game in Detroit (where I'm originally from) during the mid-1980s.  I still go back to visit, I don't recall ever having bringing it up in the forum.  I would hazard a guess that Detroit has been by far the more crime prone city compared to San Francisco in living memory. 

When I hear vague stories like about crime in San Francisco it makes me curious as to what people are referring.  Generally it is something about the homeless in conjunction with someone publicly peeing or defecating. Homeless people and someone publicly relieving themselves isn't high on the echelon of scary things I personally find scary or even off putting.

I can't fathom what a homeless person would do to an able bodied person like myself other than an attempt at panhandling.  It isn't exactly simple to find a publicly available restroom in any city in California let alone San Francisco.  Considering how much I have had to relieve myself on remote public roads or even during distance runs I guess that I can sympathize with the problem there. 

[Plutonic Panda]

My dad and I witnessed a shooting leaving a Tigers game in Detroit (where I'm originally from) during the mid-1980s.  I still go back to visit, I don't recall ever having bringing it up in the forum.  I would hazard a guess that Detroit has been by far the more crime prone city compared to San Francisco in living memory. 

When I hear vague stories like about crime in San Francisco it makes me curious as to what people are referring.  Generally it is something about the homeless in conjunction with someone publicly peeing or defecating. Homeless people and someone publicly relieving themselves isn't high on the echelon of scary things I personally find scary or even off putting.

I can't fathom what a homeless person would do to an able bodied person like myself other than an attempt at panhandling.  It isn't exactly simple to find a publicly available restroom in any city in California let alone San Francisco.  Considering how much I have had to relieve myself on remote public roads or even during distance runs I guess that I can sympathize with the problem there. 

Well, this is anecdotal I've been frequenting San Francisco for a decade now and it's been noticeably worse since the pandemic. A lot of retailers have closed and yes, you could attribute that to the pandemic, but they've also attribute it to an increased and retail theft so there's more to it. But some of the things I've witnessed since 2020 just in the last few years I've never seen in the five years leading up to it. In fact, I rarely saw crime at all.

[Max Rockatansky]

My dad and I witnessed a shooting leaving a Tigers game in Detroit (where I'm originally from) during the mid-1980s.  I still go back to visit, I don't recall ever having bringing it up in the forum.  I would hazard a guess that Detroit has been by far the more crime prone city compared to San Francisco in living memory. 

When I hear vague stories like about crime in San Francisco it makes me curious as to what people are referring.  Generally it is something about the homeless in conjunction with someone publicly peeing or defecating. Homeless people and someone publicly relieving themselves isn't high on the echelon of scary things I personally find scary or even off putting.

I can't fathom what a homeless person would do to an able bodied person like myself other than an attempt at panhandling.  It isn't exactly simple to find a publicly available restroom in any city in California let alone San Francisco.  Considering how much I have had to relieve myself on remote public roads or even during distance runs I guess that I can sympathize with the problem there. 

Well, this is anecdotal I've been frequenting San Francisco for a decade now and it's been noticeably worse since the pandemic. A lot of retailers have closed and yes, you could attribute that to the pandemic, but they've also attribute it to an increased and retail theft so there's more to it. But some of the things I've witnessed since 2020 just in the last few years I've never seen in the five years leading up to it. In fact, I rarely saw crime at all.

The only civilian agency in California I've not had issues prosecuting misdemeanor shoplifting cases was Riverside County Sheriff.  Most agencies (especially cities) have always been pushy about picking up anything that wasn't a felony.  While that mindset is not something I particularly agree with it is one I've dealt with in the state since 2007. 

Even still, outside of what I do daily I tend to not really think about retail theft when I go places.  Probably doesn't hurt in my case that I despise shopping in general and do what I can to avoid it.  I'm certainly not visiting a store when I go visit a city like San Francisco. 

[Plutonic Panda]

My dad and I witnessed a shooting leaving a Tigers game in Detroit (where I'm originally from) during the mid-1980s.  I still go back to visit, I don't recall ever having bringing it up in the forum.  I would hazard a guess that Detroit has been by far the more crime prone city compared to San Francisco in living memory. 

When I hear vague stories like about crime in San Francisco it makes me curious as to what people are referring.  Generally it is something about the homeless in conjunction with someone publicly peeing or defecating. Homeless people and someone publicly relieving themselves isn't high on the echelon of scary things I personally find scary or even off putting.

I can't fathom what a homeless person would do to an able bodied person like myself other than an attempt at panhandling.  It isn't exactly simple to find a publicly available restroom in any city in California let alone San Francisco.  Considering how much I have had to relieve myself on remote public roads or even during distance runs I guess that I can sympathize with the problem there. 

Well, this is anecdotal I've been frequenting San Francisco for a decade now and it's been noticeably worse since the pandemic. A lot of retailers have closed and yes, you could attribute that to the pandemic, but they've also attribute it to an increased and retail theft so there's more to it. But some of the things I've witnessed since 2020 just in the last few years I've never seen in the five years leading up to it. In fact, I rarely saw crime at all.

The only civilian agency in California I've not had issues prosecuting misdemeanor shoplifting cases was Riverside County Sheriff.  Most agencies (especially cities) have always been pushy about picking up anything that wasn't a felony.  While that mindset is not something I particularly agree with it is one I've dealt with in the state since 2007. 

Even still, outside of what I do daily I tend to not really think about retail theft when I go places.  Probably doesn't hurt in my case that I despise shopping in general and do what I can to avoid it.  I'm certainly not visiting a store when I go visit a city like San Francisco. 

I think it's pretty well-known the issues San Francisco is facing. I'll shop pretty much every city I go to. I'm sure San Francisco will bounce back but for me and what I've witnessed it's just pretty different from the city I knew before the pandemic. Selfishly, I'm hoping property prices go down so I can afford to buy my own row house somewhere along Golden Gate Park, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Max Rockatansky]

My dad and I witnessed a shooting leaving a Tigers game in Detroit (where I'm originally from) during the mid-1980s.  I still go back to visit, I don't recall ever having bringing it up in the forum.  I would hazard a guess that Detroit has been by far the more crime prone city compared to San Francisco in living memory. 

When I hear vague stories like about crime in San Francisco it makes me curious as to what people are referring.  Generally it is something about the homeless in conjunction with someone publicly peeing or defecating. Homeless people and someone publicly relieving themselves isn't high on the echelon of scary things I personally find scary or even off putting.

I can't fathom what a homeless person would do to an able bodied person like myself other than an attempt at panhandling.  It isn't exactly simple to find a publicly available restroom in any city in California let alone San Francisco.  Considering how much I have had to relieve myself on remote public roads or even during distance runs I guess that I can sympathize with the problem there. 

Well, this is anecdotal I've been frequenting San Francisco for a decade now and it's been noticeably worse since the pandemic. A lot of retailers have closed and yes, you could attribute that to the pandemic, but they've also attribute it to an increased and retail theft so there's more to it. But some of the things I've witnessed since 2020 just in the last few years I've never seen in the five years leading up to it. In fact, I rarely saw crime at all.

The only civilian agency in California I've not had issues prosecuting misdemeanor shoplifting cases was Riverside County Sheriff.  Most agencies (especially cities) have always been pushy about picking up anything that wasn't a felony.  While that mindset is not something I particularly agree with it is one I've dealt with in the state since 2007. 

Even still, outside of what I do daily I tend to not really think about retail theft when I go places.  Probably doesn't hurt in my case that I despise shopping in general and do what I can to avoid it.  I'm certainly not visiting a store when I go visit a city like San Francisco. 

I think it's pretty well-known the issues San Francisco is facing. I'll shop pretty much every city I go to. I'm sure San Francisco will bounce back but for me and what I've witnessed it's just pretty different from the city I knew before the pandemic. Selfishly, I'm hoping property prices go down so I can afford to buy my own row house somewhere along Golden Gate Park, but I'm not holding my breath.

The stance of district attorneys on retail theft seems to sway from extreme to the other over time.  The National Retail Foundation has done a considerable amount of lobbying in San Francisco for prosecuting shoplifting to be taken seriously.  That lobbying didn't really seem to work out and a lot of retailers left.  I suspect eventually things will start to reverse and head the other direction given money tends to do a lot talking. 

Then again, it would be fair to mention that police response to shoplifting varied greatly in other states I've worked.  Scottsdale was big on trying to convince us to let misdemeanor cases walk also.  They often made us hold onto detainees for two-four hours or just flat out told us they weren't going to show.  That is probably not the popular perception one has of an Arizonan city.  The city DA actually met with me once and spelled it out clearly that they viewed prosecution misdemeanor theft cases as a waste of time. 

[Plutonic Panda]

My dad and I witnessed a shooting leaving a Tigers game in Detroit (where I'm originally from) during the mid-1980s.  I still go back to visit, I don't recall ever having bringing it up in the forum.  I would hazard a guess that Detroit has been by far the more crime prone city compared to San Francisco in living memory. 

When I hear vague stories like about crime in San Francisco it makes me curious as to what people are referring.  Generally it is something about the homeless in conjunction with someone publicly peeing or defecating. Homeless people and someone publicly relieving themselves isn't high on the echelon of scary things I personally find scary or even off putting.

I can't fathom what a homeless person would do to an able bodied person like myself other than an attempt at panhandling.  It isn't exactly simple to find a publicly available restroom in any city in California let alone San Francisco.  Considering how much I have had to relieve myself on remote public roads or even during distance runs I guess that I can sympathize with the problem there. 

Well, this is anecdotal I've been frequenting San Francisco for a decade now and it's been noticeably worse since the pandemic. A lot of retailers have closed and yes, you could attribute that to the pandemic, but they've also attribute it to an increased and retail theft so there's more to it. But some of the things I've witnessed since 2020 just in the last few years I've never seen in the five years leading up to it. In fact, I rarely saw crime at all.

The only civilian agency in California I've not had issues prosecuting misdemeanor shoplifting cases was Riverside County Sheriff.  Most agencies (especially cities) have always been pushy about picking up anything that wasn't a felony.  While that mindset is not something I particularly agree with it is one I've dealt with in the state since 2007. 

Even still, outside of what I do daily I tend to not really think about retail theft when I go places.  Probably doesn't hurt in my case that I despise shopping in general and do what I can to avoid it.  I'm certainly not visiting a store when I go visit a city like San Francisco. 

I think it's pretty well-known the issues San Francisco is facing. I'll shop pretty much every city I go to. I'm sure San Francisco will bounce back but for me and what I've witnessed it's just pretty different from the city I knew before the pandemic. Selfishly, I'm hoping property prices go down so I can afford to buy my own row house somewhere along Golden Gate Park, but I'm not holding my breath.

The stance of district attorneys on retail theft seems to sway from extreme to the other over time.  The National Retail Foundation has done a considerable amount of lobbying in San Francisco for prosecuting shoplifting to be taken seriously.  That lobbying didn't really seem to work out and a lot of retailers left.  I suspect eventually things will start to reverse and head the other direction given money tends to do a lot talking. 

Then again, it would be fair to mention that police response to shoplifting varied greatly in other states I've worked.  Scottsdale was big on trying to convince us to let misdemeanor cases walk also.  They often made us hold onto detainees for two-four hours or just flat out told us they weren't going to show.  That is probably not the popular perception one has of an Arizonan city.  The city DA actually met with me once and spelled it out clearly that they viewed prosecution misdemeanor theft cases as a waste of time. 

Hey, a silver lining of all this may be that some of San Francisco shopping may go back to the old days where it wasn't all glitzy an upscale. I wasn't to experience it so I can't say exactly how it was. But I do enjoy some of the more unique and quirky shops.