Proposed US 412 Upgrade

[intelati49]

20-30 years? Unlike I-49 in the 1980's, it's not like they're going to have to build the proposed Interstate on an almost completely new-terrain path. Most of the highway's path already exists.

...

The hard part is building the last few miles from the East end of the Cherokee Turnpike in Dripping Springs to the Arkansas border. And then AR DOT has to do its part with a bypass of Siloam Springs. That shouldn't take 20-30 years to complete.

Yes, it shouldn't, but this is the first spurt of momentum this job has had in 30 years (the last major study mentioned was in 09?)

If the support is there financially, then it can be "begun" in those 30 years. (Think the Bella Vista bypass super 2)

[splashflash]

Any northern bypass will go past Gentry, so unless they do new terrain along AR-264/AR-12 with the facility taking a northern turn just past the XNA connector from the looks of it.

A northern bypass could perhaps wrap in as a western access to the XNA airport, with a soon-to-be connector from the east and also the south (AR-612 extension), no?  Maybe the airport authority could pitch western access and include funding.
https://www.eagleobserver.com/news/2022/jul/06/new-access-road-to-northwest-arkansas-national/

[Rothman]

Sounds like ARDOT is pursuing preservation first with its system without saying it outright.

[vdeane]

20-30 years? Unlike I-49 in the 1980's, it's not like they're going to have to build the proposed Interstate on an almost completely new-terrain path. Most of the highway's path already exists.

The Cimarron Turnpike needs just a few minor upgrades (which are already in progress). Some work is needed between the East end of that turnpike and downtown Tulsa. There's the gap between I-44 in Catoosa and the West end of the Cherokee Turnpike. That's a fairly easy upgrade to build. The hard part is building the last few miles from the East end of the Cherokee Turnpike in Dripping Springs to the Arkansas border. And then AR DOT has to do its part with a bypass of Siloam Springs. That shouldn't take 20-30 years to complete.

Of course, during the past 30 years the US government has become very deficient at planning and building infrastructure (like highways) with the future in mind. Instead, policy makers have been pandering to voters with tax cut candy. At the same time they're creating more and more red tape. With that in mind, yeah, I guess a "simple project" like this could indeed take 30 years to complete. When this nation was great at building big things a project like this could be knocked out in handful of years rather than a handful of decades.

ARDOT's plate is currently full at the moment, so it's taking a back seat to I-49, I-57, and the project currently on the docket for i-69.

[The Ghostbuster]

Will the NWA access road have a state highway designation?

[MikieTimT]

Will the NWA access road have a state highway designation?

If I were to wager, it'd be AR-980 just like the rest of them.

[intelati49]

Will the NWA access road have a state highway designation?

Hmm. Never asked. XNA access.

But nothing I've seen has a number..

[MikieTimT]

20-30 years? Unlike I-49 in the 1980's, it's not like they're going to have to build the proposed Interstate on an almost completely new-terrain path. Most of the highway's path already exists.

The Cimarron Turnpike needs just a few minor upgrades (which are already in progress). Some work is needed between the East end of that turnpike and downtown Tulsa. There's the gap between I-44 in Catoosa and the West end of the Cherokee Turnpike. That's a fairly easy upgrade to build. The hard part is building the last few miles from the East end of the Cherokee Turnpike in Dripping Springs to the Arkansas border. And then AR DOT has to do its part with a bypass of Siloam Springs. That shouldn't take 20-30 years to complete.

Of course, during the past 30 years the US government has become very deficient at planning and building infrastructure (like highways) with the future in mind. Instead, policy makers have been pandering to voters with tax cut candy. At the same time they're creating more and more red tape. With that in mind, yeah, I guess a "simple project" like this could indeed take 30 years to complete. When this nation was great at building big things a project like this could be knocked out in handful of years rather than a handful of decades.

ARDOT's plate is currently full at the moment, so it's taking a back seat to I-49, I-57, and the project currently on the docket for i-69.

As much as I would like the US-412 upgrade to proceed apace, it's pretty much another Congressional unfunded mandate like 1991 ISTEA on a section of the same HPC#8 corridor with a western extension past Tulsa.  Back when this country was great at building large projects, it was a time when the feds funded the interstates at 90% dedicated funding instead of the maybe 80% funding with block grants of today that states can spread around their highway system to a great extent.  Our national debt and deficit are far too high today to ever get back to those days, especially with our country demographically shrinking each generation with immigration being the only thing saving our bacon right now.  So, unless money falls from Uncle Sam's arse for this project, it takes a back burner on the Arkansas side, which makes signing anything between I-44 and I-49 as a 2DI suspect for quite some time.

[Bobby5280]

Our national debt and deficit are far too high today to ever get back to those days, especially with our country demographically shrinking each generation with immigration being the only thing saving our bacon right now.

For the past 50 years all of the net population growth in the US has come via immigration. And now even immigration isn't enough since the people who have been arriving are having fewer children. Everybody knows it costs a shit-ton to raise children in the US. Too many people are being priced out of parenthood, American-born citizens and immigrants alike.

Despite demographic decline and an eventual shrinking US population the government does have some choices it can make. Small towns and rural areas have been bleeding away population. There is a gravitational pull to bigger cities and suburbs. That's going to translate into further disinvestment in the roads and bridges in rural areas. That will free up money for more prominent highway corridors.

Of course, working age generations can expect to see their tax bills get hiked in the future. And retired age will be forced to take a bite of the shit sandwich too. Both major political parties have been blindly pursuing the goal of absolute single party rule. If that ever happens, or if our government becomes an authoritarian dictatorship everyone will be paying far more in taxes.

[MikieTimT]

We're still due a recession/depression shortly as interest rates can't keep escalating and anyone be able to buy anything on credit, including governments.  Things will start slowing down on the construction front everywhere that isn't already paid for after New Year's, I'm afraid.

[swake]

We're still due a recession/depression shortly as interest rates can't keep escalating and anyone be able to buy anything on credit, including governments.  Things will start slowing down on the construction front everywhere that isn't already paid for after New Year's, I'm afraid.

Unemployment is at 3.8% with many industries reporting worker shortages
GDP growth in Q2 was up a massive 4.9%
Inflation is now in check at a .4% growth last month (3.7% YOY)

Regardless of what Fox tells you, the economy is absolutely booming with no end in sight. Fox has been predicting a recession since the day Biden was elected, it keeps not happening.

Even if the economy starts to slow, the fed now has a very long runway of possible rate reductions to spur the economy. We are very far from a recession now. And with worker and goods shortages there is no foreseeable path to a deflationary economy (a depression). 

[bugo]

Will the NWA access road have a state highway designation?

If I were to wager, it'd be AR-980 just like the rest of them.

I doubt it, unless it is unsigned. Airport 980s are usually connectors to small local airports. The Little Rock, Fort Smith, Texarkana and Jonesboro airports don't have Airport 980s. An Airport 980 shield wouldn't contrast well on a green sign.

[The Ghostbuster]

Since the rest of the AR 612/future US 412 Springdale Northern Bypass has no further construction dates, the airport access road likely won't be built anytime soon either. Hopefully they don't develop the proposed right-of-way in the meantime.

[splashflash]

Since the rest of the AR 612/future US 412 Springdale Northern Bypass has no further construction dates, the airport access road likely won't be built anytime soon either. Hopefully they don't develop the proposed right-of-way in the meantime.

Are you sure?  https://www.5newsonline.com/article/traffic/xna-access-road-gets-closer-to-construction-date/527-e38f3a44-b4dd-46f2-b937-de0cc64355da  The airport CEO seems to have though otherwise. 

From the story - Construction on the access road is expected to be completed by early 2027. Construction and right-of-way acquisition is estimated to cost between $90 and $100 million dollars. This is being funded by the Renew Arkansas Highways Program that voters approved through the extension of the half-cent sales tax.

The airport seems to have already donated 55 acres of land.

[The Ghostbuster]

I admit I was speculating when I made my comment. I have never been to that area, and made the assumption that since the AR 612 freeway won't be extended anytime soon, the access road wouldn't be built soon either. I will be more careful in my predictions in the future.

[edwaleni]

I admit I was speculating when I made my comment. I have never been to that area, and made the assumption that since the AR 612 freeway won't be extended anytime soon, the access road wouldn't be built soon either. I will be more careful in my predictions in the future.

I think the rest of the Springdale Northern Bypass is a known entity down to US-412, but until now, the airport access issue was not, hence stopping where they did.

I also would like to believe that ArDOT would like to know where the future I road from Oklahoma is going to route before they bring the bypass down all the way.

Before the highway bill hit Congress, it appeared the bypass would simply shift west and into the existing US-412 near Old Hwy 68. That might change now if an I route is planned.

[swake]

I admit I was speculating when I made my comment. I have never been to that area, and made the assumption that since the AR 612 freeway won't be extended anytime soon, the access road wouldn't be built soon either. I will be more careful in my predictions in the future.

I think the rest of the Springdale Northern Bypass is a known entity down to US-412, but until now, the airport access issue was not, hence stopping where they did.

I also would like to believe that ArDOT would like to know where the future I road from Oklahoma is going to route before they bring the bypass down all the way.

Before the highway bill hit Congress, it appeared the bypass would simply shift west and into the existing US-412 near Old Hwy 68. That might change now if an I route is planned.

I think that's backwards. Oklahoma is most likely just going to extend the turnpike to wherever Arkansas is able to route the bypass. Arkansas is paying as they go for free roads and has to deal with development which is mostly non-existent on the Oklahoma side of the state line.

[MikieTimT]

I admit I was speculating when I made my comment. I have never been to that area, and made the assumption that since the AR 612 freeway won't be extended anytime soon, the access road wouldn't be built soon either. I will be more careful in my predictions in the future.

Don't know where that idea would come from.  The western leg of AR-612 (US-412 Springdale Northern Bypass) that the XNA access road connects to is funded at $100M for FFY 2025 according to the 2023-2026 STIP Line #7.

[roadman65]

Will I-240 in Tulsa overlap then with I-42 or will I-240 get truncated?

[bugo]

Will I-240 in Tulsa overlap then with I-42 or will I-240 get truncated?

I-240 doesn't go through Tulsa, it goes through OKC. I assume you meant I-244, and yes, I-42 will be a follow route of I-244, which means I-244 will be the internally cataloged number for the route, and I-42 will just be signed along I-244.

[MikieTimT]

ARDOT reviewing bids for 2024 start of Springdale Northern Bypass

Arkansas finally has concrete timelines published for the next leg.  Apparently will have almost a mile's worth of bridges for the 7 miles of facility.

[edwaleni]

Comparing the XNA decision to the approved bypass alignment.

[edwaleni]

Here is where the XNA exit would intersect on the current bypass plan between Robbins and Marchant.

[Plutonic Panda]

I admit I was speculating when I made my comment. I have never been to that area, and made the assumption that since the AR 612 freeway won't be extended anytime soon, the access road wouldn't be built soon either. I will be more careful in my predictions in the future.

I think the rest of the Springdale Northern Bypass is a known entity down to US-412, but until now, the airport access issue was not, hence stopping where they did.

I also would like to believe that ArDOT would like to know where the future I road from Oklahoma is going to route before they bring the bypass down all the way.

Before the highway bill hit Congress, it appeared the bypass would simply shift west and into the existing US-412 near Old Hwy 68. That might change now if an I route is planned.

I think that's backwards. Oklahoma is most likely just going to extend the turnpike to wherever Arkansas is able to route the bypass. Arkansas is paying as they go for free roads and has to deal with development which is mostly non-existent on the Oklahoma side of the state line.

You think they will extend the turnpike? Isn't ODOT doing this project? They can't build turnpikes or anything with tolls.

[intelati49]

Here is where the XNA exit would intersect on the current bypass plan between Robbins and Marchant.

https://xnaaccess.blob.core.windows.net/uploads/f0b6e9f4-766f-400f-a889-29e71792ba50-XNAAccess_090069_VDPH_RollPlot.pdf