OR-217 and US-26 observations

[Henry]

I still don't understand The Dalles for I-84 - when you have examples such as in Klamath Falls:



where San Francisco is over 350 miles away, or Reno over 250 miles away.

Or Spokane as the control city for I-90 in Seattle (280 miles):




Or, Cheyenne as I-80 east at the end of I-84 in Echo Canyon (over 390 miles)



And finally, Seattle on SR 26 in Colfax, Washington (270 miles)



(all photos above not my own)

Portland to Boise is about 430 miles so it'd be definitely the highest - but considering that between Portland and Boise, the next largest population cities are either Hermiston or Pendleton, both with about 16,700 residents each, then The Dalles with 14,500, La Grande with just over 13,000, and Ontario with 11,375.  Baker City is a hair under 10,000.

Even the East has a few of its own examples. Where I-85 branches off I-95 In Petersburg, VA, the control cities are Miami (on I-95) and Atlanta (on I-85), although you have to go through other major cities to reach their respective destinations. To go to Miami, you have to pass through Rocky Mount, Fayetteville, Florence, Savannah, Jacksonville, Daytona Beach and West Palm Beach; and reaching Atlanta would require going through Durham, Greensboro, Charlotte, Spartanburg and Greenville. As Atlanta and Miami are two of the most recognizable destinations south of Washington, DC (and New York City), putting those two cities on signs leading to the junction makes sense. And speaking of New York, it seems to be creeping further south, having been spotted on I-95 south of Washington (which might be the furthest I've ever seen, but I could be wrong). After there, you still have Baltimore, Wilmington, Philadelphia, Trenton and Newark to go through.

Even though US 97 has never gone anywhere near San Francisco, to the best of my knowledge, it makes perfect sense to list that as a control city because then you can access I-5, I-505 and I-80 to get there, as previously mentioned. Having Spokane on I-90 in Seattle makes sense, as does having Cheyenne and Salt Lake for I-80 at the eastern end of I-84, as there are no major cities to go through prior to reaching their respective destinations. I'm not that familiar with WA 26, so I can't say anything for that; in my mind, Seattle might also work as a control city on US 2, even if it doesn't go there. So there's absolutely no reason at all why Boise shouldn't be included for I-84 in Portland!

[Sd_fan2119]

Another thing I've noticed recently is the heavy use of The Dalles and Seattle as control cities for I-205 North. For example, there is a sign like this in Oregon City where Clackamas and the Portland Airport could also very well be marked. Seattle is understandable because I-205 is the most direct route to I-5 from east of the I-5 corridor, but the airport would definitely make more sense than The Dalles. If ODOT wants to make a point about reaching I-84 via 205, at least put a more significant city like Pendleton or Boise.

On another note, I thought it might be an interesting idea to note specific directional areas of Portland on the signs around the metro area, rather than simply "Portland". I would think it's general knowledge that many of the highways run to Portland, but obviously I-5, I-405, US-26, I-84, 99W, 99E, etc. all run through different districts and it could be useful to at least mark the general direction, if not the particular district. Just a thought...

[xonhulu]

Another thing I've noticed recently is the heavy use of The Dalles and Seattle as control cities for I-205 North. For example, there is a sign like this in Oregon City where Clackamas and the Portland Airport could also very well be marked. Seattle is understandable because I-205 is the most direct route to I-5 from east of the I-5 corridor, but the airport would definitely make more sense than The Dalles. If ODOT wants to make a point about reaching I-84 via 205, at least put a more significant city like Pendleton or Boise.

But PDX is pretty well signed as a destination all along I-205, so I wouldn't chip on a few signs missing it.  And Clackamas isn't really a city, just an unincorporated area that happens to contain a regional mall.

So there really aren't any significant Oregon destinations left on I-205 by this point, justifying the use of Seattle as control city.  Also, right after the freeway opened, ODOT made a significant effort to encourage through-traffic to take I-205 instead of I-5 through downtown.  But what I've always wondered: why isn't Vancouver ever used as a control city for the freeway?

It's arguable if Pendleton is really any more significant a destination as The Dalles.  But I doubt ODOT would favor Boise as a control city on I-84 over all the various small Oregon cities still ahead.  It's the same reason Seattle doesn't begin to appear on I-5 signage until the Portland area -- they're going to favor Oregon destinations.

On another note, I thought it might be an interesting idea to note specific directional areas of Portland on the signs around the metro area, rather than simply "Portland". I would think it's general knowledge that many of the highways run to Portland, but obviously I-5, I-405, US-26, I-84, 99W, 99E, etc. all run through different districts and it could be useful to at least mark the general direction, if not the particular district. Just a thought...

This is an interesting idea.  I think I've seen "East Portland" on I-205 signage, and "St. John's" on signs for BYP 30, so there might be some precedence.  However, this would probably be confusing to visitors, as they wouldn't be familiar with the names of the various neighborhoods.  For example, I doubt anyone outside of the valley knows where "Albina," "Hollywood," or "Laurelhurst" are located.  But I don't see why general labels like "City Center," "North Portland," etc., can't be used.

[JasonOfORoads]

This is an interesting idea.  I think I've seen "East Portland" on I-205 signage, and "St. John's" on signs for BYP 30, so there might be some precedence.  However, this would probably be confusing to visitors, as they wouldn't be familiar with the names of the various neighborhoods.  For example, I doubt anyone outside of the valley knows where "Albina," "Hollywood," or "Laurelhurst" are located.  But I don't see why general labels like "City Center," "North Portland," etc., can't be used.

There is a sign or two for the "Hollywood District" along the Banfield for Exit 2, 39th Ave. eastbound / 43rd Ave. westbound.  However, they're used on secondary signs.  I would have no problem with signs that say something like:

It would be succinct and informative for locals, but not too confusing for outsiders.  This would still be supplemental signage, of course.

[sp_redelectric]

I thought it might be an interesting idea to note specific directional areas of Portland on the signs around the metro area, rather than simply "Portland". I would think it's general knowledge that many of the highways run to Portland, but obviously I-5, I-405, US-26, I-84, 99W, 99E, etc. all run through different districts and it could be useful to at least mark the general direction, if not the particular district. Just a thought...

Considering how much time and effort it took for Gresham to get noticed on I-84?  LOL!!!

I think ODOT would be very averse to trying to deal with neighborhood names.  Look at Progress and Metzger over in the Tigard/Beaverton area - the Progress signs remained long after anyone called the area Progress (it's just Washington Square now) and finally ODOT removed the sign and replaced it with "Hall Boulevard".  While the Hollywood District is signed on I-84 eastbound, it's the exception rather than the rule - which neighborhoods should be designated, and which ones don't?  Should every Portland exit have a "Neighborhood" sign?  (Exit 294 Barbur Boulevard: Far Southwest, West Portland Park, Ashcreek - Next Right)?  Even many of Portland's neighborhoods don't identify as such...

http://www.portlandonline.com/oni/index.cfm?c=28388

[sp_redelectric]

And Clackamas isn't really a city, just an unincorporated area that happens to contain a regional mall.

Correct.  In fact the "Clackamas" area is now considered Happy Valley, which is in fact a recently incorporated city to the east of I-205, but its ZIP Code includes the mall and various areas west of I-205 including along 82nd Avenue.

But tell many people to go to "Happy Valley" and they'll look at you with a stunned silence.  And Clackamas isn't exactly a well defined area - many people would call "Clackamas" the Oregon 212/224 corridor east from I-205.

[xonhulu]

Correct.  In fact the "Clackamas" area is now considered Happy Valley, which is in fact a recently incorporated city to the east of I-205, but its ZIP Code includes the mall and various areas west of I-205 including along 82nd Avenue.

Wow, I just looked at the Oregon Highway map and you're right, Happy Valley is right there up to the east side of 205.  I've been noticing the surrounding cities have been creeping into that unincorporated area ever since the failed incorporation attempt years ago.

But tell many people to go to "Happy Valley" and they'll look at you with a stunned silence.  And Clackamas isn't exactly a well defined area - many people would call "Clackamas" the Oregon 212/224 corridor east from I-205.

I've basically thought it consisted of the area around Clackamas Town Center and extending down 212/224.  But it's always been vague exactly what that term applied to.

[sp_redelectric]

I've basically thought it consisted of the area around Clackamas Town Center and extending down 212/224.  But it's always been vague exactly what that term applied to.

You and me both...and I know many other people who would agree with you as well.

[drummer_evans_aki]

Wow... Happy Valley's a city? 10 years I've lived in the Portland Metro Area and I never even knew that.

But then again, I didn't know Maywood Park is an Incorporated City.

Did you know there's an Incorporated City in Oregon called Greenhorn? Population of ZERO.... But they have a Mayor. It has nothing to do with this thread but I thought it was funny.

[sp_redelectric]

Wow... Happy Valley's a city? 10 years I've lived in the Portland Metro Area and I never even knew that.

And of course there's Damascus, just to the southeast of Happy Valley that is in the news for all the wrong reasons - the talk is now of a possible disincorporation just ten years after incorporation.

Strangely I was down in Keizer yesterday (incorporated in 1982) and noticed quite a few Marion County street signs still lingering within city limits...and I believe there's even one straggler Oregon 219 sign in Keizer on River Road, even though River Road was removed from the state highway system back in the 1980s.

As for Greenhorn...the official population is 2.

[Kacie Jane]

As for Greenhorn...the official population is 2.

That's odd, the 2011 document acknowledges that the 2010 census for Greenhorn was 0 and shows a +2 change in population for that year.  But the 2010 document shows that the population was 2 in 2010 back through 2004* and 0 in 2003* through 2000.

*I think.  I no longer have the document open in front of me, and I'm too lazy to double check.

[drummer_evans_aki]

It's still funny though.

[NE2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islandia,_Florida
They killed it

[sp_redelectric]

From Wikipedia:

According to the Oregon Blue Book, Greenhorn's mayor is Frances Villwock, and contact information for the city lists a Mill City mailing address.

Sure enough...

http://www.bluebook.state.or.us/local/cities/ek/greenhorn.htm

Contact
Address: PO Box 1142, Mill City 97360
Phone: 503-897-2632
E-mail: villwock2001@yahoo.com



About
County: Baker
Population (2009): 2
Elevation: 6,300'
Incorporated: 2/20/1903
Mayor: Frances Villwock

I never knew I could be the Mayor of a city, and yet live 275 miles away!

[drummer_evans_aki]

How would you run for mayor of a city with a population of 2?

And who are these two people? I want to drive out there just to see it.

[ARMOURERERIC]

They were bankrupted by too many re votes on tied elections.

[kkt]

How would you run for mayor of a city with a population of 2?

I envision the debate going like this:  "Do you wanna be mayor again?"  "Naw, I did it last year, it's your turn."  "Okay, but you have to do the dishes."

[drummer_evans_aki]

How would you run for mayor of a city with a population of 2?

I envision the debate going like this:  "Do you wanna be mayor again?"  "Naw, I did it last year, it's your turn."  "Okay, but you have to do the dishes."

I'd rather be mayor. That's got to be the easiest job ever. Wonder how much they get paid. I might move there and run.

[kkt]

How would you run for mayor of a city with a population of 2?

I envision the debate going like this:  "Do you wanna be mayor again?"  "Naw, I did it last year, it's your turn."  "Okay, but you have to do the dishes."

I'd rather be mayor. That's got to be the easiest job ever. Wonder how much they get paid. I might move there and run.

The pay is probably the other citizen of the city taking one extra turn at doing the dishes during the year.

[agentsteel53]

imagine living in this oppressive totalitarian state, where the voter is not presented with a choice for mayor

[NE2]

Except I don't think Olnes is incorporated.

[sp_redelectric]

Did Tigard's sign shop make up that sign???

[drummer_evans_aki]

Wonder if Tigard's Sign Shop can make me a sign for my house.

Entering
My House
Population: 1
Remove Your Shoes

[sp_redelectric]

Wonder if Tigard's Sign Shop can make me a sign for my house.

Oh God no...Tigard ranks up with Yamhill County as having one of the most sloppy sign shops around.

You'd think Tigard would shut down their shop and contract with the county, Washington County does generally a decent job - but not as good as Clackamas County.