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Author Topic: "Control Routes" on beltways  (Read 1022 times)

SkyPesos

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"Control Routes" on beltways
« on: April 14, 2023, 10:43:37 PM »

Seeing a bit of discussion here on what the ideal control cities on beltways should be, I haven't seen signing control routes pointed out that much, something I think beltways could benefit from due to their circumferential nature allowing it to interchange with many other freeways in the first place.

This is something I-275 in Cincinnati does a lot. For example, at the northern I-275/I-75 junction, the BGS on the I-75 approach to the beltway signs "West I-275/To I-74" and "East I-275/To I-71". Similarly, at the beltway's junction with I-71, it's signed "West I-275/To I-75" and "East I-275/To OH 32". I wonder why other beltways don't do this, as I think it's useful. Control routes could either replace actual control cities (as seen in the latter example) or supplement control cities (like in the former example).

I could see this working better when the primary freeway "nodes" into the metro area don't meet each other, but all meet at the beltway. Baltimore is a good example where I like to see this, where I-95, I-70, I-83, and I-97 don't directly meet each other, but do so via I-695. The next one on the loop could be signed as a control route. Similar case in DC with To I-95, I-66, I-270, and US 50/I-595 on I-495.

Thoughts?

ilpt4u

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Re: "Control Routes" on beltways
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2023, 11:19:19 AM »

Would only 1 Control Route/Node be signed at each Radial junction?

Im thinking St Louis and 270/255
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sprjus4

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Re: "Control Routes" on beltways
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2023, 11:40:38 AM »

Ive noticed VA I-295 / VA-288 does this in a number areas. Essentially all of I-295 north of I-64 uses some sort of To on every sign. South of I-64, its mostly just I-295 with no To routes. On VA-288, its used in most places along the entire route.

The difference between the two routes, I-295 uses To I-64 and To I-95 mostly, with a mention of VA-895 once. VA-288, on the other hand, uses various routes throughout such as US-60, US-360, US-250, VA-76, and then of course I-95 and I-64.

VA I-295:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5He8dzEu6TcdqmXw6?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/W5n8Uyan31YbM8Hw5?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KhRgiWcVdJPTggi76?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/47SvRJ5XUevLzXwH7?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/wCZjSskeMMwTvu4b6?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8XyGVTpq9LkND4PC7?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UaYYACjT71Ak8ae39?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/kgzULByrfsCEc9Fv8?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/k34jAcu9cxV2Xdiq8?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/azt1SAgPCUQGgjWDA?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/QNyL5mpz1E8EkR9i7?g_st=ic

VA-288:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/kz1Bzc3Xz1YrcVfYA?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5pmdW9Tq3cQVifuUA?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/wQNiTYW8aNVM5aZXA?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/uLhMwhbEfbsDVMHq9?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xFotBa1RQGGgZQCr8?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/DHa7rAxuhqqPTSKw7?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Nfu6evcAkWfF9N3B7?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/eHJYEatFD3Cvnjc98?g_st=ic (To Powhite Parkway used as the actual control city)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/wu4x7x3qjNNC5UgN9?g_st=ic
« Last Edit: April 15, 2023, 11:43:27 AM by sprjus4 »
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HighwayStar

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Re: "Control Routes" on beltways
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2023, 01:17:24 PM »

Regardless of if the trunk routes meet in the city or not, I would think signing the next intersecting interstate route as the control "city" makes sense. The exception to this might be an area where the beltway passes through a truly significant town of its own right, so it could be given an actual control city status.
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SkyPesos

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Re: "Control Routes" on beltways
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2023, 01:44:47 PM »

Would only 1 Control Route/Node be signed at each Radial junction?

Im thinking St Louis and 270/255
Im thinking one (the next freeway junction in each direction) would be enough, to not clog the signs up too much.

jmacswimmer

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Re: "Control Routes" on beltways
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2023, 02:16:37 PM »

I could see this working better when the primary freeway "nodes" into the metro area don't meet each other, but all meet at the beltway. Baltimore is a good example where I like to see this, where I-95, I-70, I-83, and I-97 don't directly meet each other, but do so via I-695. The next one on the loop could be signed as a control route. Similar case in DC with To I-95, I-66, I-270, and US 50/I-595 on I-495.

I know this isn't quite what you have in mind, but both DC & Baltimore currently have a few one-off supplemental signs on some of the routes as they approach the beltway for reaching another route. Here's the ones I'm aware of:

DC/495:
To I-66/I-270 from I-95 NB
To I-66 from I-95 SB
I believe there also used to be a "To I-270" sign on US 50 WB approaching I-95/I-495 but it was knocked down several years ago and never replaced

Bmore/695:
To I-70/I-83 from I-95 NB
To I-95 from I-70 EB (included on the main signage here)
To I-95 from I-795 SB
To I-95 SB from I-83 SB
To I-70/I-83 from I-95 SB (and then a couple miles later: To I-97 via I-895 rather than I-695)
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roadman65

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Re: "Control Routes" on beltways
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2023, 04:56:20 PM »

I-78 Eastbound in Bedminster, NJ signs I-287 NB To I-80.
US 22 EB in Bridgewater signs I-287 SB To I-95/ NJ Turnpike.
NJ 208 NB signs To I-87 Thruway for I-287 NB.
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roadman65

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Re: "Control Routes" on beltways
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2023, 07:10:46 AM »

In Orlando on US 17,92,& 441 and John Young Parkway both at FL 417, TO I-4 is used as SB control city.
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Re: "Control Routes" on beltways
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2023, 09:02:39 PM »

I could see this working better when the primary freeway "nodes" into the metro area don't meet each other, but all meet at the beltway. Baltimore is a good example where I like to see this, where I-95, I-70, I-83, and I-97 don't directly meet each other, but do so via I-695. The next one on the loop could be signed as a control route. Similar case in DC with To I-95, I-66, I-270, and US 50/I-595 on I-495.

I know this isn't quite what you have in mind, but both DC & Baltimore currently have a few one-off supplemental signs on some of the routes as they approach the beltway for reaching another route. Here's the ones I'm aware of:

DC/495:
To I-66/I-270 from I-95 NB
To I-66 from I-95 SB
I believe there also used to be a "To I-270" sign on US 50 WB approaching I-95/I-495 but it was knocked down several years ago and never replaced

Bmore/695:
To I-70/I-83 from I-95 NB
To I-95 from I-70 EB (included on the main signage here)
To I-95 from I-795 SB
To I-95 SB from I-83 SB
To I-70/I-83 from I-95 SB (and then a couple miles later: To I-97 via I-895 rather than I-695)

One thing about Maryland highways is they have a method to their madness.
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roadman65

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Re: "Control Routes" on beltways
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2023, 09:31:25 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/quhqqxqRJTmCBkk47
Edison, NJ on US 1 NB for I-287. Though erroneous, NJ 440 is not overlapped with I-287 as the sign suggests, but a control route like I-95 and the NJ Turnpike is next to it.
https://goo.gl/maps/AdUvGMnfygxc5qfG8
Though US 22 EB already mentioned, here is WB with two sets of control routes for I-287.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2023, 09:33:26 PM by roadman65 »
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Re: "Control Routes" on beltways
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2023, 09:55:23 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/UTYLnUA17MKFRxPXA
I-270 signage on Cleveland Avenue in Columbus, OH.
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ilpt4u

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Re: "Control Routes" on beltways
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2023, 11:16:10 PM »

Would only 1 Control Route/Node be signed at each Radial junction?

Im thinking St Louis and 270/255
Im thinking one (the next freeway junction in each direction) would be enough, to not clog the signs up too much.
Would be a problem for I-64 at I-255, as the next interstate junction, either way on the route is I-55. Would have to specify I-55N/I-70 for NB 255 and I-55S for SB 255. Id sign SB 255 I-55S/I-44W at the 64/255 junction. IDOT kinda does this via Controls, using Memphis and Tulsa for I-255 SB here, but only mainline 255. Only Memphis is posted along 64 for SB 255
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Re: "Control Routes" on beltways
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2023, 09:55:21 PM »

I could see this working better when the primary freeway "nodes" into the metro area don't meet each other, but all meet at the beltway. Baltimore is a good example where I like to see this, where I-95, I-70, I-83, and I-97 don't directly meet each other, but do so via I-695. The next one on the loop could be signed as a control route. Similar case in DC with To I-95, I-66, I-270, and US 50/I-595 on I-495.

I know this isn't quite what you have in mind, but both DC & Baltimore currently have a few one-off supplemental signs on some of the routes as they approach the beltway for reaching another route. Here's the ones I'm aware of:

DC/495:
To I-66/I-270 from I-95 NB
To I-66 from I-95 SB
I believe there also used to be a "To I-270" sign on US 50 WB approaching I-95/I-495 but it was knocked down several years ago and never replaced

Bmore/695:
To I-70/I-83 from I-95 NB
To I-95 from I-70 EB (included on the main signage here)
To I-95 from I-795 SB
To I-95 SB from I-83 SB
To I-70/I-83 from I-95 SB (and then a couple miles later: To I-97 via I-895 rather than I-695)

One thing about Maryland highways is they have a method to their madness.
NC is picking up on this too. In Greensboro and Charlotte, you'll also find some control routes on most freeway approaches to the beltway. These are some of the examples I could find:

I-840/GSO
To I-85 from I-40 EB
To I-73 from I-40 WB
To I-40 from I-73 NB
We may get a "To I-85 and/or I-40" from I-785 SB when it is completed.

I-485/CLT
To I-77 from I-85 NB
To I-77 NB from I-85 SB
To I-85 from I-77 SB
To I-85 SB @ I-77 (here, I-77 does not use I-85 as control route)
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sprjus4

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Re: "Control Routes" on beltways
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2023, 10:06:42 PM »

I could see this working better when the primary freeway "nodes" into the metro area don't meet each other, but all meet at the beltway. Baltimore is a good example where I like to see this, where I-95, I-70, I-83, and I-97 don't directly meet each other, but do so via I-695. The next one on the loop could be signed as a control route. Similar case in DC with To I-95, I-66, I-270, and US 50/I-595 on I-495.

I know this isn't quite what you have in mind, but both DC & Baltimore currently have a few one-off supplemental signs on some of the routes as they approach the beltway for reaching another route. Here's the ones I'm aware of:

DC/495:
To I-66/I-270 from I-95 NB
To I-66 from I-95 SB
I believe there also used to be a "To I-270" sign on US 50 WB approaching I-95/I-495 but it was knocked down several years ago and never replaced

Bmore/695:
To I-70/I-83 from I-95 NB
To I-95 from I-70 EB (included on the main signage here)
To I-95 from I-795 SB
To I-95 SB from I-83 SB
To I-70/I-83 from I-95 SB (and then a couple miles later: To I-97 via I-895 rather than I-695)

One thing about Maryland highways is they have a method to their madness.
NC is picking up on this too. In Greensboro and Charlotte, you'll also find some control routes on most freeway approaches to the beltway. These are some of the examples I could find:

I-840/GSO
To I-85 from I-40 EB
To I-73 from I-40 WB
To I-40 from I-73 NB
We may get a "To I-85 and/or I-40" from I-785 SB when it is completed.

I-485/CLT
To I-77 from I-85 NB
To I-77 NB from I-85 SB
To I-85 from I-77 SB
To I-85 SB @ I-77 (here, I-77 does not use I-85 as control route)
Then, there's this gem in Raleigh-Durham.
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Henry

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Re: "Control Routes" on beltways
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2023, 09:39:42 PM »

I could see this working better when the primary freeway "nodes" into the metro area don't meet each other, but all meet at the beltway. Baltimore is a good example where I like to see this, where I-95, I-70, I-83, and I-97 don't directly meet each other, but do so via I-695. The next one on the loop could be signed as a control route. Similar case in DC with To I-95, I-66, I-270, and US 50/I-595 on I-495.

I know this isn't quite what you have in mind, but both DC & Baltimore currently have a few one-off supplemental signs on some of the routes as they approach the beltway for reaching another route. Here's the ones I'm aware of:

DC/495:
To I-66/I-270 from I-95 NB
To I-66 from I-95 SB
I believe there also used to be a "To I-270" sign on US 50 WB approaching I-95/I-495 but it was knocked down several years ago and never replaced

Bmore/695:
To I-70/I-83 from I-95 NB
To I-95 from I-70 EB (included on the main signage here)
To I-95 from I-795 SB
To I-95 SB from I-83 SB
To I-70/I-83 from I-95 SB (and then a couple miles later: To I-97 via I-895 rather than I-695)

One thing about Maryland highways is they have a method to their madness.
NC is picking up on this too. In Greensboro and Charlotte, you'll also find some control routes on most freeway approaches to the beltway. These are some of the examples I could find:

I-840/GSO
To I-85 from I-40 EB
To I-73 from I-40 WB
To I-40 from I-73 NB
We may get a "To I-85 and/or I-40" from I-785 SB when it is completed.

I-485/CLT
To I-77 from I-85 NB
To I-77 NB from I-85 SB
To I-85 from I-77 SB
To I-85 SB @ I-77 (here, I-77 does not use I-85 as control route)
Then, there's this gem in Raleigh-Durham.
I just discovered two mistakes for my Greensboro examples. First, I neglected to add To I-40 on I-73 SB. And second, I-840 is not signed on the part where I-73 approaches from the south, but I-85 is.
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