What state posts the worst control cities? The best?

[JayhawkCO]

What, out of curiosity, do you propose in lieu of Fort Morgan? I'm assuming Omaha or something of the like despite the fact that I-76 doesn't go within 350 miles of it?

I think a control state of Nebraska would be fine. Even for those intending to go to Scottsbluff, it wouldn't be an issue; from destinations where I-76 is not optimal, they wouldn't see the signs on I-76 to begin with.

I'm on record as hating the "control state" cities.

[ethanhopkin14]

What, out of curiosity, do you propose in lieu of Fort Morgan? I'm assuming Omaha or something of the like despite the fact that I-76 doesn't go within 350 miles of it?

I think a control state of Nebraska would be fine. Even for those intending to go to Scottsbluff, it wouldn't be an issue; from destinations where I-76 is not optimal, they wouldn't see the signs on I-76 to begin with.

I'm on record as hating the "control state" cities.

I hate them, but they crack me up!

[JayhawkCO]

What, out of curiosity, do you propose in lieu of Fort Morgan? I'm assuming Omaha or something of the like despite the fact that I-76 doesn't go within 350 miles of it?

I think a control state of Nebraska would be fine. Even for those intending to go to Scottsbluff, it wouldn't be an issue; from destinations where I-76 is not optimal, they wouldn't see the signs on I-76 to begin with.

I'm on record as hating the "control state" cities.

And for Colorado's only other use of a control state (I-70 being signed for Utah in and around Grand Junction), I would much prefer if they used Moab (despite I-70 not serving it directly) because at least people have heard of it. Salina would have been better than Green River when that was used too.

[hbelkins]

I always found it interesting that Illinois uses Memphis as a control city for I-57 at the junctions with I-94 and I-80 in Chicagoland, especially since I-57 doesn't go within 100 miles of Memphis.  Granted, I-57 is the primary route you would take to get from Chicago to Memphis but still . . .

Sikeston would be a logical control, because it's a major interstate junction and the (current) terminus of I-57. But you'd probably end up with Sikeston being signed on I-57 and Memphis being signed on I-55.

Thread idea...

[SEWIGuy]

I-41 Fond Du Lac, Green Bay NB Appleton Milwaukee SB fine. Wisdot wants Milwaukee to Green Bay traffic to use I-43

It's not so much WIDOT "wanting" traffic to use I-43. It's clearly the better route between the two cities.  In fact, I would say that if you are southeast of a line from about Waukesha to Germantown, I-43 to Green Bay is preferable to I-41.  It just bends so far to the west to get "around" Lake Winnebago.

[SEWIGuy]

I always found it interesting that Illinois uses Memphis as a control city for I-57 at the junctions with I-94 and I-80 in Chicagoland, especially since I-57 doesn't go within 100 miles of Memphis.  Granted, I-57 is the primary route you would take to get from Chicago to Memphis but still . . .

I have always thought they should use Champaign / Urbana being the home of the University of Illinois, and a decent sized urban area in its own right.

[hobsini2]

I always found it interesting that Illinois uses Memphis as a control city for I-57 at the junctions with I-94 and I-80 in Chicagoland, especially since I-57 doesn't go within 100 miles of Memphis.  Granted, I-57 is the primary route you would take to get from Chicago to Memphis but still . . .

I have always thought they should use Champaign / Urbana being the home of the University of Illinois, and a decent sized urban area in its own right.

I agree. But at least they use Champaign as a secondary south of Kankakee.

[hobsini2]

What, out of curiosity, do you propose in lieu of Fort Morgan? I'm assuming Omaha or something of the like despite the fact that I-76 doesn't go within 350 miles of it?

I think a control state of Nebraska would be fine. Even for those intending to go to Scottsbluff, it wouldn't be an issue; from destinations where I-76 is not optimal, they wouldn't see the signs on I-76 to begin with.

I'm on record as hating the "control state" cities.

Nebraska in this case would be ok but not wild about it. I got no problem with Ft Morgan but if not that, North Platte or Kearney would be the next small cities of importance. Omaha and Lincoln are way too far to use since 76 ends well over 300 miles from them near Julesburg.

[US 89]

What, out of curiosity, do you propose in lieu of Fort Morgan? I'm assuming Omaha or something of the like despite the fact that I-76 doesn't go within 350 miles of it?

I think a control state of Nebraska would be fine. Even for those intending to go to Scottsbluff, it wouldn't be an issue; from destinations where I-76 is not optimal, they wouldn't see the signs on I-76 to begin with.

I'm on record as hating the "control state" cities.

And for Colorado's only other use of a control state (I-70 being signed for Utah in and around Grand Junction), I would much prefer if they used Moab (despite I-70 not serving it directly) because at least people have heard of it. Salina would have been better than Green River when that was used too.

That one's harder than it looks at first glance. The problem is that over half of westbound traffic exits on US 6 towards Price and Salt Lake City, which means anything on 70 west of that split isn't exactly an ideal candidate. Green River is the only town in Utah before that split, and because it's so isolated, most people have probably stopped there for services or at least know where it is. Highlighting it as a control might even serve to emphasize the emptiness of that area 70 goes through.

If you're going to use something on 70 west of Green River, Richfield would be an even better choice than Salina. It's only 15 miles past Salina and has over three times the population, with just about everything you'd want from a regional hub in the inland west (including a Walmart). I've never thought of using Moab before, but it is way too far off I-70 (over 30 miles) for me to really get on board.

What, out of curiosity, do you propose in lieu of Fort Morgan? I'm assuming Omaha or something of the like despite the fact that I-76 doesn't go within 350 miles of it?

I think a control state of Nebraska would be fine. Even for those intending to go to Scottsbluff, it wouldn't be an issue; from destinations where I-76 is not optimal, they wouldn't see the signs on I-76 to begin with.

I'm on record as hating the "control state" cities.

Nebraska in this case would be ok but not wild about it. I got no problem with Ft Morgan but if not that, North Platte or Kearney would be the next small cities of importance. Omaha and Lincoln are way too far to use since 76 ends well over 300 miles from them near Julesburg.

Who cares where 76 ends? The traffic pattern is east on 80. I-84 in Utah uses Cheyenne as a control city where it splits from I-15 (before reverting to more local controls at smaller interchanges). I would prefer something closer be used instead - maybe Rock Springs - but the same applies to 80 in SLC. I'm not going to dispute Cheyenne on 84 simply because the route ends too soon.

[hotdogPi]

And for those following the signs for Green River UT thinking they're going toward Green River WY? (Or avoiding it – "I'm not trying to go toward Wyoming, so this is the wrong way.")

[JayhawkCO]

And for those following the signs for Green River UT thinking they're going toward Green River WY? (Or avoiding it – "I'm not trying to go toward Wyoming, so this is the wrong way.")

Thankfully no one goes to Green River, WY. 

(I have passed through both on I-80 and coming back from Flaming Gorge. It's not so bad by Wyoming standards.)

[jaehak]

What, out of curiosity, do you propose in lieu of Fort Morgan? I'm assuming Omaha or something of the like despite the fact that I-76 doesn't go within 350 miles of it?

I think a control state of Nebraska would be fine. Even for those intending to go to Scottsbluff, it wouldn't be an issue; from destinations where I-76 is not optimal, they wouldn't see the signs on I-76 to begin with.

Agree. Nebraska is the move. Omaha IS far, and Lincoln is a legitimate control city and slightly closer, but too small to be signed from Denver from so far away. Grand Island, Kearney, North Platte, and Ogallala are increasingly closer and also decreasingly smaller, and have no business being signed from a major city like Denver.

[hobsini2]

US 89, fair point. Cheyenne makes sense for 84 even though it's not on 84. I suppose one could make the case for putting Las Vegas on 70 after Grand Jct.

[hobsini2]

What, out of curiosity, do you propose in lieu of Fort Morgan? I'm assuming Omaha or something of the like despite the fact that I-76 doesn't go within 350 miles of it?

I think a control state of Nebraska would be fine. Even for those intending to go to Scottsbluff, it wouldn't be an issue; from destinations where I-76 is not optimal, they wouldn't see the signs on I-76 to begin with.

Agree. Nebraska is the move. Omaha IS far, and Lincoln is a legitimate control city and slightly closer, but too small to be signed from Denver from so far away. Grand Island, Kearney, North Platte, and Ogallala are increasingly closer and also decreasingly smaller, and have no business being signed from a major city like Denver.

From Denver to about Ft Morgan, Nebraska can be used. But what do you do when you get to CO 71 at Brush? That goes into Nebraska too. This is why I prefer control cities to control states.

[JayhawkCO]

What, out of curiosity, do you propose in lieu of Fort Morgan? I'm assuming Omaha or something of the like despite the fact that I-76 doesn't go within 350 miles of it?

I think a control state of Nebraska would be fine. Even for those intending to go to Scottsbluff, it wouldn't be an issue; from destinations where I-76 is not optimal, they wouldn't see the signs on I-76 to begin with.

Agree. Nebraska is the move. Omaha IS far, and Lincoln is a legitimate control city and slightly closer, but too small to be signed from Denver from so far away. Grand Island, Kearney, North Platte, and Ogallala are increasingly closer and also decreasingly smaller, and have no business being signed from a major city like Denver.

From Denver to about Ft Morgan, Nebraska can be used. But what do you do when you get to CO 71 at Brush? That goes into Nebraska too. This is why I prefer control cities to control states.

Agreed, and it's stupid to use Nebraska for a while, and then when you get closer to Nebraska, you stop using Nebraska. Any other place that does this as precedent?

[hobsini2]

What, out of curiosity, do you propose in lieu of Fort Morgan? I'm assuming Omaha or something of the like despite the fact that I-76 doesn't go within 350 miles of it?

I think a control state of Nebraska would be fine. Even for those intending to go to Scottsbluff, it wouldn't be an issue; from destinations where I-76 is not optimal, they wouldn't see the signs on I-76 to begin with.

Agree. Nebraska is the move. Omaha IS far, and Lincoln is a legitimate control city and slightly closer, but too small to be signed from Denver from so far away. Grand Island, Kearney, North Platte, and Ogallala are increasingly closer and also decreasingly smaller, and have no business being signed from a major city like Denver.

From Denver to about Ft Morgan, Nebraska can be used. But what do you do when you get to CO 71 at Brush? That goes into Nebraska too. This is why I prefer control cities to control states.

Agreed, and it's stupid to use Nebraska for a while, and then when you get closer to Nebraska, you stop using Nebraska. Any other place that does this as precedent?

In Chicago, it makes sense to use Wisconsin until the Edens Jct and then use Milwaukee for 94 and Rockford for 90. But that's the only instance I can think of where it is used like that.

[MattHanson939]

Las Vegas on 70 after Grand Jct.

I'd make an argument that St George is a better choice to use than Las Vegas on I-70 west after Grand Junction, since that's the next biggest city nearest to the route's western terminus.  Las Vegas is too far as it's about 240 miles from the junction of I-15/I-70.  In that case, St. George would also have to be signed on I-15 south but as a secondary control city.

I think "indirect control cities" more often make the most sense if the city being signed is a short distance beyond the route's terminus, especially if traffic continues going in the same direction when defaulting onto the adjacent route (thereby creating a straight shot from City A to City B).  For instance, I-8 east within Arizona signing Tucson is a very logical move since traffic defaults onto I-10 east at the route's terminus; and Tucson is only 60 miles from the I-8/I-10 junction.  And if only New Mexico signed interstate control cities similar to how Arizona does, I-25 south signing El Paso as the southbound control city from Albuquerque would also be the logical choice since El Paso is only 45 miles from Las Cruces.

In the case with I-76 in Colorado and Nebraska, it's basically a feeder route connecting to I-80.  And for this reason I would think Omaha is the best choice to use as the EB control city from Denver; traffic is headed in that direction.

[SkyPesos]

Las Vegas on 70 after Grand Jct.

I'd make an argument that St George is a better choice to use than Las Vegas on I-70 west after Grand Junction, since that's the next biggest city nearest to the route's western terminus.  Las Vegas is too far as it's about 240 miles from the junction of I-15/I-70.  In that case, St. George would also have to be signed on I-15 south but as a secondary control city.

I prefer Las Vegas. Much more well-known than St George, even though the latter is the most notable population center in southern Utah. I think that if you're going to put a city past a route's terminus as a control, it's better to use one that everyone has heard of. Another example is I-40 using Los Angeles instead of San Bernardino. Also, 240 miles isn't that far compared to some other examples. About the distance from St Louis to both Indianapolis and Kansas City on I-70, which are both control cities in the STL area.

[Brandon]

What does bother me is why AASHTO/FHWA didn't sit down and mark out the control cites so there is some consistency between the states (here is Control City A, then Control City B; there will be no Control City A.1).  It really keeps Indio, Desert Cities and Blythe being used throughout California without a mention of Phoenix.

They did.

I like how OhioDOT just ignores an entire row (aka just silliness probably written in this list by PennDOT) and go straight to NYC from Youngstown. Shows that this list isn't strictly followed by every state.

Pennsylvania (and New Jersey) should use these control cities...
I-80 (EB): DuBois, Williamsport, Hazleton, Stroudsburg, New York
I-80 (WB): Stroudsburg, Hazleton, Williamsport, DuBois, Sharon, Youngstown

No Delaware Water Gap should ever be used as a main control point.  A supplemental one, yes.  So, from the I-80/I-287 interchange in Parsippany, the control point for I-80 West should be Stroudsburg, PA--not Del Water Gap.

The I-376/I-80 interchange should use DuBois for I-80 East instead of Mercer.

I-95 should not have Benson (NC), Chester (PA), or even Kittery (ME) on the list.

Del Water Gap is used because of the lack of big cities in PA, as well as it being a recognizable landmark. Nobody has ever heard of Stroudsburg. What other options do they have? Cleveland?

"Ohio" might work just fine.

[jaehak]

What, out of curiosity, do you propose in lieu of Fort Morgan? I'm assuming Omaha or something of the like despite the fact that I-76 doesn't go within 350 miles of it?

I think a control state of Nebraska would be fine. Even for those intending to go to Scottsbluff, it wouldn't be an issue; from destinations where I-76 is not optimal, they wouldn't see the signs on I-76 to begin with.

Agree. Nebraska is the move. Omaha IS far, and Lincoln is a legitimate control city and slightly closer, but too small to be signed from Denver from so far away. Grand Island, Kearney, North Platte, and Ogallala are increasingly closer and also decreasingly smaller, and have no business being signed from a major city like Denver.

From Denver to about Ft Morgan, Nebraska can be used. But what do you do when you get to CO 71 at Brush? That goes into Nebraska too. This is why I prefer control cities to control states.

Agreed, and it's stupid to use Nebraska for a while, and then when you get closer to Nebraska, you stop using Nebraska. Any other place that does this as precedent?

Illinois signs Indiana right to the border and Wisconsin to almost the border on 90/39. So not unprecedented. Yes CO 71 goes to NE, but I'm guessing something like 95% of Nebraska's population can be better reached on 76/80. Sign it all the way. Or sign it in Denver on overheads and junctions and then alternate between Lincoln and Omaha on mileage signs once past 470.

[hobsini2]

What, out of curiosity, do you propose in lieu of Fort Morgan? I'm assuming Omaha or something of the like despite the fact that I-76 doesn't go within 350 miles of it?

I think a control state of Nebraska would be fine. Even for those intending to go to Scottsbluff, it wouldn't be an issue; from destinations where I-76 is not optimal, they wouldn't see the signs on I-76 to begin with.

Agree. Nebraska is the move. Omaha IS far, and Lincoln is a legitimate control city and slightly closer, but too small to be signed from Denver from so far away. Grand Island, Kearney, North Platte, and Ogallala are increasingly closer and also decreasingly smaller, and have no business being signed from a major city like Denver.

From Denver to about Ft Morgan, Nebraska can be used. But what do you do when you get to CO 71 at Brush? That goes into Nebraska too. This is why I prefer control cities to control states.

Agreed, and it's stupid to use Nebraska for a while, and then when you get closer to Nebraska, you stop using Nebraska. Any other place that does this as precedent?

Illinois signs Indiana right to the border and Wisconsin to almost the border on 90/39. So not unprecedented. Yes CO 71 goes to NE, but I'm guessing something like 95% of Nebraska's population can be better reached on 76/80. Sign it all the way. Or sign it in Denver on overheads and junctions and then alternate between Lincoln and Omaha on mileage signs once past 470.

I like that solution. If I was to do the mileage signs heading east on 76, here's how I would do them.
After 470: Colo 7, Ft Morgan, Omaha
After Colo 7: Hudson, Ft Morgan, North Platte
After Colo 52: Keenesburg, Ft Morgan, Lincoln
After Roggen: Wiggins, Ft Morgan, Omaha
After Wiggins: Ft Morgan, Brush, North Platte
After Ft Morgan: Brush, Sterling, Lincoln
After Brush: Atwood, Sterling, Omaha
After Colo 63: Sterling, Julesburg, Ogallala
After US 6: Crook, Julesburg, North Platte
After Colo 55: Sedgwick, Julesburg, Lincoln
After Colo 59: Ovid, Julesburg, Omaha
After Hwy 29: Julesburg, I-80, Ogallala
After US 385: I-80, Big Spring NE, North Platte

Interestingly enough, when 76 joins I-80, on the first mileage sign, North Platte is the control then Kearney then Lincoln. The only mention of Omaha is on the pull through at 80. Nebraska only puts the next exit and the next control city. No 3rd line.

[JayhawkCO]

Still kinda hate it. I-76 doesn't go anywhere near Lincoln or Omaha. I also hate using states. Keeping as is is fine. I could argue for changing Fort Morgan to Sterling, that that's as far as I'd go. Past Sterling, sure, pick a Nebraskan city, probably North Platte.

[ethanhopkin14]

Still kinda hate it. I-76 doesn't go anywhere near Lincoln or Omaha. I also hate using states. Keeping as is is fine. I could argue for changing Fort Morgan to Sterling, that that's as far as I'd go. Past Sterling, sure, pick a Nebraskan city, probably North Platte.

I love control cities on interstates that default on to other interstates.  I love El Paso for both I-20 and I-25, but I hate Weatherford for I-30.  Yes, I-20 actually takes you there, but it kind of acknowledges that I-30 is about to die.  Abilene would be better for I-30 west of downtown FT Worth as some signs do say.  I-12 has control cities on it's route, which I wish they would use something beyond.  Baton Rouge is good for westbound, but east bound shouldn't be Hamond then Slidel, it should be Gulfport or Biloxi like I-10 has.  I like New Orleans for southbound on both I-59 and I-55.  Yes, I am also a fan on I-40 in Arizona having Los Angeles as a control city despite it, nor the interstate it defaults onto going there. 

[MattHanson939]

I think that if you're going to put a city past a route's terminus as a control, it's better to use one that everyone has heard of. Another example is I-40 using Los Angeles instead of San Bernardino. Also, 240 miles isn't that far compared to some other examples. About the distance from St Louis to both Indianapolis and Kansas City on I-70, which are both control cities in the STL area.

I-40 west does sign Los Angeles from Flagstaff to the California border; but once you cross into California, Barstow becomes the control city since that's where I-40 ends at I-15.  I think CalTrans should use Los Angeles as the primary control on I-40 west because it's MUCH bigger and more well-known than Barstow (which should be used as a secondary).  I-15 should also be signed for Los Angeles instead of San Bernardino within California as well as from Las Vegas.

I don't necessarily agree with using smaller cities where the route ends as a control city when there is a much bigger and more well-known city close by on the adjacent route; the larger city should especially be signed in this case.  This is why I make the argument that El Paso should be the primary control city on I-25 south from Albuquerque, with Las Cruces being a secondary.  It is also the reason that NM 502 east from Los Alamos signs Santa Fe instead of Pojoaque.

[JayhawkCO]

I love control cities on interstates that default on to other interstates.  I love El Paso for both I-20 and I-25, but I hate Weatherford for I-30.  Yes, I-20 actually takes you there, but it kind of acknowledges that I-30 is about to die.

I guess that's my point. In the example above, I-76 isn't about to die. It's just getting started.