News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

Prairie Parkway.

Started by rmsandw, April 04, 2009, 10:51:39 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Rick Powell

Quote from: Rick Powell on November 03, 2017, 10:41:12 AM

Quote from: froggie on November 03, 2017, 10:17:11 AM
Kind of a side question here, but how much are the state's budget (and long-term obligation) problems affecting both IDOT and the potential growth of the region?

It's really a mixed bag.
1. Downtown Chicago is booming. I read somewhere that there are a near-record number of construction cranes reaching in the air for high-rise construction in the Loop and the north side. My son-in-law is a union carpenter and these type of projects are his bread and butter. However, there is not really a corresponding population boom; a lot of black-majority wards are losing population to the suburbs and out-of-state ex-migration, countering any growth in the gentrifying neighborhoods.
2. Last election, voters approved a "transportation lockbox" amendment by a 4 to 1 margin that kept gas taxes from being diverted. However, the most recent budget (the first one passed in 2+ years) took some transit money from the general fund and it is now coming out of transportation, and the result was a net loss to the counties of MFT funds, at least for this year.
3. Many people are clamoring for a state capital construction bill, but there is unprecedented political gridlock in the state. Some trial balloons have been floated about increasing the gas tax to pay for it, but nothing has stuck.
4. There was a very unpopular soda tax instituted in Cook County, and the county board had to walk it back by a 15-to-1 vote. The shortage of funding for general obligations, as well as city, county and pension funding, is in diametric opposition to a "taxed enough already" public sentiment that now extends across political lines.


johndoe780

#51
Quote from: Rick Powell on November 03, 2017, 09:07:43 AM
Quote from: johndoe780 on November 03, 2017, 07:18:10 AM
Does IDOT own most of the ROW?

They bought some of it around where the I-80 and US 34 interchanges would be, and where it would cross the Fox River, but most of it is still owned by the private landowners up and down the corridor. FWIW, the land around US 34 was probably the property most under threat of development at the time. IDOT did add lanes to US 34 using some of the Prairie Parkway funding, and the median widens out where the interchange would go, but they didn't do anything obvious like put in ramp stubs.

What's the opposition to the prairie parkway?  Not in my farm? /s

Build it. Look at I-80 and Will County's recent industrial construction boon.

But if they won't seriously consider building the prairie parkway then they should at least consider 6 laning I-39 from I-80 to Rockford expand it south to Salem to take the load off interstates closer to Chicago metro.

As far as western development, it's still there. Millennials like living in dense areas though, but it appears that once they have kids they just come back to the suburbs/exurbs.

It looks like the Trump administration is considering a 7-10 cent gas tax increase. Now that Illinois has that lockbox in place, why not add a corresponding 5-10 cent increase as well?  Heck, gas prices went up 30 cents a gallon due to "fall refinery changes."

SEWIGuy

Quote from: johndoe780 on November 03, 2017, 11:01:13 AM
Quote from: Rick Powell on November 03, 2017, 09:07:43 AM
Quote from: johndoe780 on November 03, 2017, 07:18:10 AM
Does IDOT own most of the ROW?

They bought some of it around where the I-80 and US 34 interchanges would be, and where it would cross the Fox River, but most of it is still owned by the private landowners up and down the corridor. FWIW, the land around US 34 was probably the property most under threat of development at the time. IDOT did add lanes to US 34 using some of the Prairie Parkway funding, and the median widens out where the interchange would go, but they didn't do anything obvious like put in ramp stubs.

What's the opposition to the prairie parkway?  Not in my farm? /s

Build it. Look at I-80 and Will County's recent industrial construction boon.

But if they won't seriously consider building the prairie parkway then they should at least consider 6 laning I-39 from I-80 to Rockford expand it south to Salem to take the load off interstates closer to Chicago metro.

As far as western development, it's still there. Millennials like living in dense areas though, but it appears that once they have kids they just come back to the suburbs/exurbs.

It looks like the Trump administration is considering a 7-10 cent gas tax increase. Now that Illinois has that lockbox in place, why not add a corresponding 5-10 cent increase as well?  Heck, gas prices went up 30 cents a gallon due to "fall refinery changes."


There isn't enough traffic on I-39 right now.  Expanding it to three lanes would be a waste.

ET21

Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 03, 2017, 12:42:05 PM
Quote from: johndoe780 on November 03, 2017, 11:01:13 AM
Quote from: Rick Powell on November 03, 2017, 09:07:43 AM
Quote from: johndoe780 on November 03, 2017, 07:18:10 AM
Does IDOT own most of the ROW?

They bought some of it around where the I-80 and US 34 interchanges would be, and where it would cross the Fox River, but most of it is still owned by the private landowners up and down the corridor. FWIW, the land around US 34 was probably the property most under threat of development at the time. IDOT did add lanes to US 34 using some of the Prairie Parkway funding, and the median widens out where the interchange would go, but they didn't do anything obvious like put in ramp stubs.

What's the opposition to the prairie parkway?  Not in my farm? /s

Build it. Look at I-80 and Will County's recent industrial construction boon.

But if they won't seriously consider building the prairie parkway then they should at least consider 6 laning I-39 from I-80 to Rockford expand it south to Salem to take the load off interstates closer to Chicago metro.

As far as western development, it's still there. Millennials like living in dense areas though, but it appears that once they have kids they just come back to the suburbs/exurbs.

It looks like the Trump administration is considering a 7-10 cent gas tax increase. Now that Illinois has that lockbox in place, why not add a corresponding 5-10 cent increase as well?  Heck, gas prices went up 30 cents a gallon due to "fall refinery changes."


There isn't enough traffic on I-39 right now.  Expanding it to three lanes would be a waste.

Between I-80 and the IL/WI line???? I think there is enough to justify 3 laning tbh. South of I-80 it drops off big time
The local weatherman, trust me I can be 99.9% right!
"Show where you're going, without forgetting where you're from"

Clinched:
IL: I-88, I-180, I-190, I-290, I-294, I-355, IL-390
IN: I-80, I-94
SD: I-190
WI: I-90, I-94
MI: I-94, I-196
MN: I-90

SEWIGuy

Quote from: ET21 on November 03, 2017, 02:29:22 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 03, 2017, 12:42:05 PM
Quote from: johndoe780 on November 03, 2017, 11:01:13 AM
Quote from: Rick Powell on November 03, 2017, 09:07:43 AM
Quote from: johndoe780 on November 03, 2017, 07:18:10 AM
Does IDOT own most of the ROW?

They bought some of it around where the I-80 and US 34 interchanges would be, and where it would cross the Fox River, but most of it is still owned by the private landowners up and down the corridor. FWIW, the land around US 34 was probably the property most under threat of development at the time. IDOT did add lanes to US 34 using some of the Prairie Parkway funding, and the median widens out where the interchange would go, but they didn't do anything obvious like put in ramp stubs.

What's the opposition to the prairie parkway?  Not in my farm? /s

Build it. Look at I-80 and Will County's recent industrial construction boon.

But if they won't seriously consider building the prairie parkway then they should at least consider 6 laning I-39 from I-80 to Rockford expand it south to Salem to take the load off interstates closer to Chicago metro.

As far as western development, it's still there. Millennials like living in dense areas though, but it appears that once they have kids they just come back to the suburbs/exurbs.

It looks like the Trump administration is considering a 7-10 cent gas tax increase. Now that Illinois has that lockbox in place, why not add a corresponding 5-10 cent increase as well?  Heck, gas prices went up 30 cents a gallon due to "fall refinery changes."


There isn't enough traffic on I-39 right now.  Expanding it to three lanes would be a waste.

Between I-80 and the IL/WI line???? I think there is enough to justify 3 laning tbh. South of I-80 it drops off big time

The OP said between I-80 and Rockford.  And no I don't think there is enough traffic.  Eventually between US-20 and I-88 as a first step, but that is still a ways off.

In looking at an IL traffic count map:

I-39/90 just south of Beloit:  48-52,000
I-39/90 just north of Rockford:  58-62,000
I-39 between US-20 and I-88: 28-32,000
I-39 between I-88 and I-80:  15-19,000

Between I-80 and Bloomington is about the same as between I-88 and I-80

Rick Powell

Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 03, 2017, 02:57:21 PM
The OP said between I-80 and Rockford.  And no I don't think there is enough traffic.  Eventually between US-20 and I-88 as a first step, but that is still a ways off.

In looking at an IL traffic count map:

I-39/90 just south of Beloit:  48-52,000
I-39/90 just north of Rockford:  58-62,000
I-39 between US-20 and I-88: 28-32,000
I-39 between I-88 and I-80:  15-19,000

Between I-80 and Bloomington is about the same as between I-88 and I-80

I don't travel much on I-39 north of Mendota, but I am a frequent traveler from there to B-N. Not aware of any capacity issues in that stretch, it's a less stressful trip than I-80.

For comparison purposes, I-80 between I-39 and IL 47 in Morris is 27k-32k, and jumps up to 37k east of Morris and 54k east of Minooka. From I-39 to Morris the 4-lane section usually works OK, and I am relatively unimpeded in my morning and evening commute. There is a noticeable pinch in traffic east of Morris where it could stand a lane addition, and even more east of Minooka where it absolutely could use one from all the commuters to/from the east and trucks serving logistics warehouses. By these standards, I think I-39 is OK as is south of Rockford, but on "watch" status north of I-88 over the next decade or two.

dcharlie

On Friday and Saturday nights, particularly in the summer.  The section of I-39 between US 20 and I-88 could definitely use a 3rd lane.  I'm on that about once a month and driving it makes my blood pressure go up!

ET21

Quote from: dcharlie on November 03, 2017, 03:49:17 PM
On Friday and Saturday nights, particularly in the summer.  The section of I-39 between US 20 and I-88 could definitely use a 3rd lane.  I'm on that about once a month and driving it makes my blood pressure go up!

Hence why I think it could use it from I-80 to Rockford. Yeah it's not justified for the winter months, but spring and summer are quite busy.
The local weatherman, trust me I can be 99.9% right!
"Show where you're going, without forgetting where you're from"

Clinched:
IL: I-88, I-180, I-190, I-290, I-294, I-355, IL-390
IN: I-80, I-94
SD: I-190
WI: I-90, I-94
MI: I-94, I-196
MN: I-90

dcharlie

I used to live south of I-88 and it cleared up quite a bit there.  So didn't think it was needed then.  But have not traveled it for a few years

sparker

Question:  do any of the current GPS systems or apps specify an I-80/I-39 routing as an effective bypass of greater Chicago for IN-WI (and vice-versa) travel?  One might reasonably guess that the greater I-39 traffic counts north of I-80 may in some part be attributable to this sort of "prompting".

SEWIGuy

Quote from: sparker on November 03, 2017, 06:05:17 PM
Question:  do any of the current GPS systems or apps specify an I-80/I-39 routing as an effective bypass of greater Chicago for IN-WI (and vice-versa) travel?  One might reasonably guess that the greater I-39 traffic counts north of I-80 may in some part be attributable to this sort of "prompting".


If you are going say from Madison to Indianapolis, most GPS systems send you to Chicagoland.  They should.  It is shorter distance-wise and (usually) time-wise. 

Rick Powell

Although intuitively it would seem like the I-39/74 route's biggest strength would be as a big outer belt around Chicago, as SEWI points out, it's about an hour longer from Mad City to Indy than doing the I-90/294/80/65 routing (at least with a quick goog check). I-55/I-39/I-43 is about the same as I-55/294/94 going from St. Louis to Milwaukee. I-39 really shines as part of the Quad Cities/Milwaukee trip which might explain the heavier ADT from I-88 to Rockford as compared to I-39 south of 88 - but is about even with a US 151/I-94 routing from Iowa City and Points west to Milwaukee. It is probably part of any logical route from Madison WI to points south like St. Louis or Memphis. Of course, most routings using I-39 are a fairly predictable trip...anything around Chicago can blow up with traffic at various times.

JREwing78

Don't forget that for much of the past 4+ years, I-90 between Rockford and Chicagoland was under construction in one form or another. I spent a lot of time on I-88 and I-39 to avoid the mess; it was generally not faster but was a lot less stressful (two not-quite-10' lanes with no shoulder with semis 6 inches off your mirror? F*** that!)

Ditto for my trip to Cincinnati via Indianapolis - I-90 to I-294 to I-80/94 to I-65 frequently was not much (if any) faster and way more stressful. I-39 to I-74 is a far calmer trip.

I've never had GPS suggest I-39 as a *faster* trip, but on a 7 hour drive, a half-hour each way wasn't that big of a deal.

ilpt4u

Quote from: sparker on November 03, 2017, 06:05:17 PM
Question:  do any of the current GPS systems or apps specify an I-80/I-39 routing as an effective bypass of greater Chicago for IN-WI (and vice-versa) travel?  One might reasonably guess that the greater I-39 traffic counts north of I-80 may in some part be attributable to this sort of "prompting".
Southern IL to Milwaukee and points North, Google Maps prefers I-57 to either I-294 or I-94 in Chicago and then North as its primary option, but the secondary is either US 51 or I-57/I-74 to I-39 and then I-43 back over toward Milwaukee, and the time difference is negligible

Beltway

#64
Quote from: Rick Powell on November 03, 2017, 08:43:13 PM
Although intuitively it would seem like the I-39/74 route's biggest strength would be as a big outer belt around Chicago, as SEWI points out, it's about an hour longer from Mad City to Indy than doing the I-90/294/80/65 routing (at least with a quick goog check). I-55/I-39/I-43 is about the same as I-55/294/94 going from St. Louis to Milwaukee. I-39 really shines as part of the Quad Cities/Milwaukee trip which might explain the heavier ADT from I-88 to Rockford as compared to I-39 south of 88 - but is about even with a US 151/I-94 routing from Iowa City and Points west to Milwaukee. It is probably part of any logical route from Madison WI to points south like St. Louis or Memphis. Of course, most routings using I-39 are a fairly predictable trip...anything around Chicago can blow up with traffic at various times.

Indianapolis, Indiana
Madison, Wisconsin

Google Maps routing data

I-65, I-80, I-294, I-90
334 miles and 5 hr  7min

I-74, I-39, I-90
374 miles and 5 hr 34 min

Given the fact that the I-39 route completely bypasses the Chicago area and a very busy segment of I-65 and the Tri-State Tollway and 3/4 of the Northwest Tollway, I would say it is attractive even with the added distance and time shown above.  If I went to visit my sister in Madison I would definitely favor the I-39 route over the Chicago route.

I really don't mind using tollroads when they are needed for the best routing, but if there is a feasible toll-free alternative then I would much rather avoid the tolls.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Revive 755

Quote from: Rick Powell on November 03, 2017, 08:43:13 PM
Of course, most routings using I-39 are a fairly predictable trip...anything around Chicago can blow up with traffic at various times.

Actually it seems fairly predictable that one will loose time trying to enter southbound I-294 from eastbound I-290.

Quote from: Beltway on November 04, 2017, 12:25:28 AM
Indianapolis, Indiana
Madison, Wisconsin

Google Maps routing data

I-65, I-80, I-294, I-90
334 miles and 5 hr  7min

I-74, I-39, I-90
374 miles and 5 hr 34 min

Given the fact that the I-39 route completely bypasses the Chicago area and a very busy segment of I-65 and the Tri-State Tollway and 3/4 of the Northwest Tollway, I would say it is attractive even with the added distance and time shown above.

I think by the time all of the bottlenecks in Chicagoland are factored in, the I-39 routing is probably the same amount of time as going through Chicagoland.  The only bottleneck on I-39 is the ramp where I-39 splits off from US 20 on the south side of Rockford.  Going through Chicagoland there's I-90 at I-290, I-290 between IL 72 and I-355 on weekday afternoons (including outside of rush hour anymore), then however far the ramp onto I-294 from EB I-290 has queued up.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Revive 755 on November 04, 2017, 10:19:37 PM
Quote from: Rick Powell on November 03, 2017, 08:43:13 PM
Of course, most routings using I-39 are a fairly predictable trip...anything around Chicago can blow up with traffic at various times.

Actually it seems fairly predictable that one will loose time trying to enter southbound I-294 from eastbound I-290.

Quote from: Beltway on November 04, 2017, 12:25:28 AM
Indianapolis, Indiana
Madison, Wisconsin

Google Maps routing data

I-65, I-80, I-294, I-90
334 miles and 5 hr  7min

I-74, I-39, I-90
374 miles and 5 hr 34 min

Given the fact that the I-39 route completely bypasses the Chicago area and a very busy segment of I-65 and the Tri-State Tollway and 3/4 of the Northwest Tollway, I would say it is attractive even with the added distance and time shown above.

I think by the time all of the bottlenecks in Chicagoland are factored in, the I-39 routing is probably the same amount of time as going through Chicagoland.  The only bottleneck on I-39 is the ramp where I-39 splits off from US 20 on the south side of Rockford.  Going through Chicagoland there's I-90 at I-290, I-290 between IL 72 and I-355 on weekday afternoons (including outside of rush hour anymore), then however far the ramp onto I-294 from EB I-290 has queued up.


I have taken the drive from the Indianapolis area to southern Wisconsin at least two dozen times.  I will be taking it again in just over a week.  The Chicago route is almost always faster.  Depending on the time, the bottlenecks rarely add 20 minutes to the trip and the flow of traffic is faster.

captkirk_4

Going through Chicagoland is insane Monday through Friday unless it's in the middle of the night. When I go to Michigan on a weekday coming up from downstate Illinois, I don't even mess with Chicagoland anymore. I take US24 across to I-69 at Ft. Wayne. Even when the time is faster you have to deal with so many cars you're lucky to have that two second buffer between the one your following, and if you do someone will fly into the gap right in front of you. Forget about using the cruise control. I-74 to I-39 on the other hand is a relaxing bypass without too much traffic. Just set the cruise control and sit back.

Beltway

Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 05, 2017, 09:03:35 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on November 04, 2017, 10:19:37 PM
Quote from: Beltway on November 04, 2017, 12:25:28 AM
Indianapolis, Indiana
Madison, Wisconsin
Google Maps routing data
I-65, I-80, I-294, I-90
334 miles and 5 hr  7min
I-74, I-39, I-90
374 miles and 5 hr 34 min
Given the fact that the I-39 route completely bypasses the Chicago area and a very busy segment of I-65 and the Tri-State Tollway and 3/4 of the Northwest Tollway, I would say it is attractive even with the added distance and time shown above.
I think by the time all of the bottlenecks in Chicagoland are factored in, the I-39 routing is probably the same amount of time as going through Chicagoland.  The only bottleneck on I-39 is the ramp where I-39 splits off from US 20 on the south side of Rockford.  Going through Chicagoland there's I-90 at I-290, I-290 between IL 72 and I-355 on weekday afternoons (including outside of rush hour anymore), then however far the ramp onto I-294 from EB I-290 has queued up.
I have taken the drive from the Indianapolis area to southern Wisconsin at least two dozen times.  I will be taking it again in just over a week.  The Chicago route is almost always faster.  Depending on the time, the bottlenecks rarely add 20 minutes to the trip and the flow of traffic is faster.

The Google Maps algorithm says 27 minutes faster, on a trip of over 5 hours.  Given the amount of tolls and urbanization on that route as well as very high traffic on the rural sections of I-65, the extra time and miles would be worth it to bypass all that, IMHO.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

skluth

The difference between driving through Chicagoland to save a few minutes or a less stressful drive utilizing routes like I-39 and I-74 is whether you consider driving a competitive sport.

Brandon

Quote from: skluth on November 07, 2017, 03:59:22 AM
The difference between driving through Chicagoland to save a few minutes or a less stressful drive utilizing routes like I-39 and I-74 is whether you consider driving a competitive contact sport.

FIFY.  They like playing real bumper cars here.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

invincor

For the past three years I've been driving to a tennis tournament in Cincinnati from Wisconsin every August.  I've used I-39 and I-74 every time to avoid the Chicago metro, and been happy every time to have a predictable, relaxed drive free from traffic jam worries and to not pay tolls. 



inkyatari

Someone needs to put signs up around Indianapolis that reads "Heading to the NW? Use I-74 to I-39 to avoid Chicago."

If I had the money, I'd be the bastard to do it.
I'm never wrong, just wildly inaccurate.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: inkyatari on November 07, 2017, 09:22:41 AM
Someone needs to put signs up around Indianapolis that reads "Heading to the NW? Use I-74 to I-39 to avoid Chicago."

If I had the money, I'd be the bastard to do it.


As long as it says "Even though it's a longer route and will take you more time" I'm good with it.

Beltway

Quote from: invincor on November 07, 2017, 09:11:27 AM
For the past three years I've been driving to a tennis tournament in Cincinnati from Wisconsin every August.  I've used I-39 and I-74 every time to avoid the Chicago metro, and been happy every time to have a predictable, relaxed drive free from traffic jam worries and to not pay tolls. 

Nothing wrong with going by way of Chicago if you have some business there also, or just want to drive by that enormous and high downtown.  I have some relatives in the Chicago area.  But if I have no specific business there on a particular trip, then I will take the outer bypass of I-74 and I-39.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.