When I took a trip to Oklahoma City for the first weekend in February, I thought its population was about 500,000, similar to that of my hometown of Kansas City - it turns out, OKC's population is almost 700,000.
On the other hand, recently I also thought that Pittsburgh was about the same size as KC - it's actually only about 300,000.
That makes me want to ask: what cities might there be around the country (or for that matter, the world) that you thought were bigger or smaller than they actually are, and how far off were your guesses?
If you compare metro area to metro area, however, Pittsburgh is nearly 70% bigger than OKC.
Naples, Florida is far smaller than I used to think it was. In fact, it's small enough that it doesn't even qualify for the "guess the city" thread.
I would guess my current locale of Aurora, CO would show up on a lot of people's lists. It's not well known nationally at all but has 386k as of 2020.
For me personally, I think Fort Worth is my answer. You think of it as Dallas' little sister, but it has almost a million people on its own.
For the small side, maybe St. Louis? Less than 300,000 people, but you think of it as a big city.
For me...
When I drive to Mexico and cross at Ciudad Acuña, my route through the city is only about 2½ miles long from the border bridge to the southern outskirts. So for a while, I thought the city must be fairly small, similar to Del Rio on the US side of the border. But no, apparently it's just that my route goes the short way across, and it actually has a population of more than 200,000–about six times the size of Del Rio.
I met my wife online, and she lived in Branson, MO. The first time I met her in person, I went down there from the Chicago area. From one end of Branson to the other, it's about six miles of hotels and restaurants and theaters and gift shops and museums. So I was surprised to learn later that it only had a population of about 7000 (twenty years ago). I quickly learned that Branson is just a strange combination of visiting tourists and local rednecks, and the former far outnumber the latter. Branson has grown since then, but the population is still well under 15,000.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2023, 01:15:10 PM
I would guess my current locale of Aurora, CO would show up on a lot of people's lists. It's not well known nationally at all but has 386k as of 2020.
For me personally, I think Fort Worth is my answer. You think of it as Dallas' little sister, but it has almost a million people on its own.
For the small side, maybe St. Louis? Less than 300,000 people, but you think of it as a big city.
It doesn't surprise me that suburbs of major, well-known cities (as Aurora is for Denver) can seem smaller than they actually are. As for St. Louis, I always have thought of it as a major city, and its metro, I believe, is bigger than that of KC (2.8 million vs. 2.4 million) whereas KC is larger when it comes to the city proper (500K vs. 300K).
In addition, my impression is that places that primarily cater to the tourist trade (see Branson, above) can seem a lot bigger than they are - out of curiosity, I looked up the population of Orlando, Florida, and was somewhat surprised to learn that it, too, is only about 300,000.
I've found that Fresno (population 542,107) seemingly is far larger than most people thought it was (largely because of the Fresno Road Meet).
Quote from: 1 on April 21, 2023, 01:10:20 PM
Naples, Florida is far smaller than I used to think it was. In fact, it's small enough that it doesn't even qualify for the "guess the city" thread.
I think Naples has that "spot on part of the map for balance" syndrome.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 21, 2023, 02:28:52 PM
I've found that Fresno (population 542,107) seemingly is far larger than most people thought it was (largely because of the Fresno Road Meet).
I, for one, would have guessed less than 400,000.
Hamilton, Ontario doesn't look that big for travelers on the Queen Elizabeth Way freeway between Toronto and Niagara Falls. But the QEW steers clear of the city center, so it's not obvious from there that more than half a million people live in Hamilton, nor why it would have its own Canadian Football League team.
The first time I passed through Columbus, Ohio, I thought it looked much bigger than I had pictured it being, even though I knew they have an NHL team, I knew Ohio State is located there, and I was aware of its beltway.
My wife was surprised to see what a big city Montreal is the first time I drove there with her. We arrived at night via Autoroute 15 and she first saw the city across the St. Lawrence and was astonished. She had pictured a small town.
I was somewhat surprised this week to realize how small downtown Phoenix is and how the area around downtown and the airport is quite compact. I had been there once before in 2015, but on that trip I only very briefly passed through downtown late at night in the car (I wasn't driving) and so didn't get a feel for it, whereas this week I was there for business and both stayed downtown and walked three-quarters of a mile each way to work both days. Traffic was generally lighter than I would have expected, too, other than on Sunday afternoon on AZ-51 when we hit a backup en route from my brother-in-law's house to the Stockyards steakhouse (but that was because I-10 was closed past the airport for roadwork).
I can't answer the part about how far off my "guesses" were because I never thought about the cities in terms of population.
I was a bit surprised when I learned Tallahassee, Florida is smaller than Overland Park, Kansas.
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2023, 01:21:33 PM
I met my wife online, and she lived in Branson, MO. The first time I met her in person, I went down there from the Chicago area. From one end of Branson to the other, it's about six miles of hotels and restaurants and theaters and gift shops and museums. So I was surprised to learn later that it only had a population of about 7000 (twenty years ago). I quickly learned that Branson is just a strange combination of visiting tourists and local rednecks, and the former far outnumber the latter. Branson has grown since then, but the population is still well under 15,000.
Pigeon Forge, Tennessee has a resident population of about 6500.
size: big
population: small
pancake restaurants: many
traffic: obnoxious
Quote from: 1 on April 21, 2023, 01:10:20 PM
Naples, Florida is far smaller than I used to think it was. In fact, it's small enough that it doesn't even qualify for the "guess the city" thread.
Sometimes it's not just the city proper but there are probably around 400,000 people living around Naples.
Hutchinson, KS is around 40k but if you are traveling on US 50 or K14-96 you would never know that cause all routes bypass the city center from a great distance. K-61 does go through some suburban and commercial areas of that city, but to the eye it looks like the average Central US small city like Limon, CO.
Had to throw that last one in there lol.
Before having driven through both of them, I thought that Birmingham, AL and Montgomery, AL were about the same size. The cities themselves do have a similar population, but Birmingham's metro area is almost 3 times larger.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 21, 2023, 03:15:39 PM
The first time I passed through Columbus, Ohio, I thought it looked much bigger than I had pictured it being, even though I knew they have an NHL team, I knew Ohio State is located there, and I was aware of its beltway.
On one hand, I could see where OSU's presence could make some people underestimate the size of Columbus, due to how many other major universities in the nation are located in cities in the 40-200k range.
Indianapolis is the 15th largest city but the 33rd largest metro area, so it is a lot larger than it seems.
When I was a kid going up to Newberry, Michigan I always thought it would be bigger than it is. It has a population of around 1,500 and a lot of towns in the U.P. are smaller and I realized that after going there.
Fun Fact: Newberry is located in McMillan Township which is by far the largest township in Michigan in land area. Almost as big as the city of Houston, Texas. McMillan Township is 589 square miles.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 22, 2023, 09:38:55 AM
Indianapolis is the 15th largest city but the 33rd largest metro area, so it is a lot larger than it seems.
That's what happens when your growth is just absorbing the suburbs.
My favorite metric for comparing two cities (and IMO most accurate) is the urban area (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas). Per the Census Bureau, it's basically the largest area of contiguous development surrounding a city center. Due to its nature, the boundaries change every census to reflect growth or shrinkage, and the maps should be coming out pretty soon for the 2020 census. The population figures have been published, at least.
Evansville is bigger than a lot of people think. People I've spoken to think it's a similar size to Owensboro or Terre Haute, in the 75K range. I think it's because it's so far off the beaten path from the rest of Indiana, and because it's 20 miles from the nearest "thru" Interstate in I-64. In reality, the urbanized area has around 200K, on par with Cedar Rapids, Fargo, or Green Bay.
Cities like Columbus, Ohio and Indianapolis are just a bunch of suburbs put together for the most part. Those cities almost never have a large Metro population outside of the city limits.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 22, 2023, 04:25:58 PM
Cities like Columbus, Ohio and Indianapolis are just a bunch of suburbs put together for the most part. Those cities almost never have a large Metro population outside of the city limits.
That's the only way most Rust Belt or Ferrous Belt metros can grow. Look at Dallas, where the northern suburbs are beginning to tickle Oklahoma's underbelly.
I was shocked as hell to learn that Flagstaff, Arizona hasn't even made it to six-figures.....yet that is. I was expecting it to be one of the five largest cities in the state, but it's not even in the top ten! If someone were to ask me to name a few cities in Arizona, Flagstaff is certainly one that comes to mind. But then again its frigid climate, I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in that icebox.
I am also surprised that Detroit, which had at one time peaked almost 2 million people several decades ago, is outside the top twenty largest cities in the country.
I didn't know Virginia Beach (VA) and Long Beach (CA) are as large as they are. I would have guessed Norfolk was the largest city in Virgina.
Another shocker: Mesa (AZ) is larger than Atlanta (GA)
My home town Corpus Christi is larger than many pro-sport cities like Buffalo, Cinncinati, Newark, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and Salt Lake, but I've already known that for many years now.
Plant City, FL looks like a small city on US 92, but drive the former SR 39 through it and it seems bigger because the souther part is heavily commercialized.
Clermont, FL used to be small on US 27 as it had only a flashing beacon at Hooks Street, but drive SR 50 and it would be bigger due to its businesses and residential areas are along it. Now Lake County has developed so much around it, there is no open buffers of rural ness to separate it from Metro Orlando to the east, Groveland to the west, Haines City that is 40 miles to the south, and the Central Lake Bedroom Communities on US 27 north and west of the original city extend at least 7 more miles.
US 27 now is signalized from Lake Wales all the way to Ocala practically so Clermont is only a small part of linear development for over one hundred miles along the US highway that in 2003 had 65 mph segments between I-4 and Leesburg.
From my multiple trips to the Philippines in recent years:
- the extreme density of the Metro Manila area (with 13 million people in just the metro region) means that some ostensible "suburbs" are pretty large in size:
Caloocan (granted, essentially two non-contiguous areas that border Manila and Quezon City) at 1.6 million
Las Pinas at 600K (just a bit smaller than the actual destination city/financial center of Makati)
Paranaque at 689K (larger than Makati)
Pasay at 440K (though a friend of mine doesn't consider Pasay as a suburb at all)
Malabon at 380K
Marikina at 456K
Muntinlupa at 543K (this city includes the suburban commercial district of Alabang)
Valenzuela at 714K
- My family's hometown in Concepcion, Tarlac was described to me over the years as some sort of small town, when it is more like a Modesto-type big town amidst a farming area. Current population: 169K
- The largest city in the province of Bulacan (partially rural, partially Manila suburbs) is San Jose Del Monte...at...651K!
- I've known for years that Quezon City is larger than the actual City of Manila, but it's wild that this is by a factor of about 170% (Manila at 1.8 million, Quezon City at nearly 3 million) - it's not obvious that QC has more people than Chicago!
Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Tampa are mine, since their metro areas are all pretty broad.
Most people don't realize how large of a metro area Charleston, SC is. A lot of tourists don't stray outside the Peninsula, which is about 40-45K population plus tourists.
But the urban area population is 63rd in the 2020 census at close to 700K, and the metro is 74th at 813K (probably already has passed Dayton for 73rd).
Greenville, SC's urban area is much smaller than its metro population (over a million). It was only 387K in the 2020 census, smaller than such metros as Augusta, Syracuse, Stockton CA, and even Daytona Beach.
Yet its arena has pulled NCAA regionals and major concerts.
Driving through Charleston, WV you'd think it is a much larger area than it is. The city has less than 50K and the urban area is ranked 248th. Yet being the capital of WV it has outward importance.
Morgantown is only at 77K, the same size as Wausau WI and smaller than Florence SC and St. Augustine FL. Yet when WVU football is good they get 60K fans into that small area, most not from Morgantown.
SM-G998U
Quote from: Sctvhound on May 08, 2023, 09:29:06 AM
Most people don't realize how large of a metro area Charleston, SC is. A lot of tourists don't stray outside the Peninsula, which is about 40-45K population plus tourists.
Are you sure about this? It's probably the first city in South Carolina someone will name. I've always imagined Charleston, Columbia, and the upstate conglomerate to all be about the same size.
Ottawa had a reputation has being the City that Fun Forgot for years. However, its population is right at 1,000,000, with some boundaries extending a decent distance away from the urban core.
I just played Panama City, Panama in the Guess That CITY thread, and if you would have asked me about its population before I played it, I would have guessed probably 800K-1 mill. It's only 477K. It's just such a hub in Central America it feels bigger.
Quote from: Rothman on April 22, 2023, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 22, 2023, 09:38:55 AM
Indianapolis is the 15th largest city but the 33rd largest metro area, so it is a lot larger than it seems.
That's what happens when your growth is just absorbing the suburbs.
that's not really true anymore, indy's current suburbs didn't exist back when unigov passed, they were tiny towns with no real connection with Indy. The current suburbs have a pretty good sized population. both carmel and fishers are over 100k, westfield is over 50k Noblesville 70k. the other donut county suburbs are comparable in population. Indy proper is around 800k. the metro is around 2.5 mil.
Quote from: epzik8 on May 08, 2023, 06:35:31 AM
Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Tampa are mine, since their metro areas are all pretty broad.
All of Central Florida is getting to be one big metro area. Thankfully the Green Swamp in Northern Polk is protected to keep somewhat of a buffer between Polk City and Davenport on I-4 to keep it becoming like Jupiter to Homestead in South Florida.
Quote from: 1 on May 08, 2023, 09:31:21 AM
Quote from: Sctvhound on May 08, 2023, 09:29:06 AM
Most people don't realize how large of a metro area Charleston, SC is. A lot of tourists don't stray outside the Peninsula, which is about 40-45K population plus tourists.
Are you sure about this? It's probably the first city in South Carolina someone will name. I've always imagined Charleston, Columbia, and the upstate conglomerate to all be about the same size.
I don't think he's arguing about the name recognition of the city - I think his point is the average outsider/tourist vibe of Charleston is generally a quaint seacoast town, which is what I think he's saying people don't know it's a significant hub.
Quote from: TheStranger on May 08, 2023, 03:59:42 AM
From my multiple trips to the Philippines in recent years:
- the extreme density of the Metro Manila area (with 13 million people in just the metro region) means that some ostensible "suburbs" are pretty large in size:
Caloocan (granted, essentially two non-contiguous areas that border Manila and Quezon City) at 1.6 million
Las Pinas at 600K (just a bit smaller than the actual destination city/financial center of Makati)
Paranaque at 689K (larger than Makati)
Pasay at 440K (though a friend of mine doesn't consider Pasay as a suburb at all)
Malabon at 380K
Marikina at 456K
Muntinlupa at 543K (this city includes the suburban commercial district of Alabang)
Valenzuela at 714K
- My family's hometown in Concepcion, Tarlac was described to me over the years as some sort of small town, when it is more like a Modesto-type big town amidst a farming area. Current population: 169K
- The largest city in the province of Bulacan (partially rural, partially Manila suburbs) is San Jose Del Monte...at...651K!
- I've known for years that Quezon City is larger than the actual City of Manila, but it's wild that this is by a factor of about 170% (Manila at 1.8 million, Quezon City at nearly 3 million) - it's not obvious that QC has more people than Chicago!
San Fernando and Angeles City Pampanga they are like the twin cities of Pampanga and they are at 300-400k each. But they are part of the Clark area. Pampanga gets described as the Sacramento type area of the Philippines.
However, places like Cebu and Davao are listed as the next largest metro area outside of Manila.
Bowling Green KY and Clarksville TN are bigger than I thought. They are the 3rd and 5th most populated in their states. However cites like Charleston WV and Harrisburg PA are smaller than I thought. They have even less people than Waukesha the county seat of my home county. I was really surprised when I heard Harrisburg only had around 50,000 I thought it would be like 150,000. Also I would think Wausau WI would have more than just 40,000.
Well, Harrisburg does have a metro area that appears to have a population of nearly 600,000. That would make it appear bigger than the physical city itself. If I recall, Bowling Green and Clarksville are mainly just those cities themselves, so the suburbs get counted in with them. Clarksville from what I remember was very widespread as a city. Charleston WV is hemmed in by the river valleys, so it appears dense but not too spread out for topographically reasons.
The dense part of Charleston, WV is like 5 miles by maybe a mile. You can pretty much see everything from the Interstate. They do have that little area out on US-119 with stuff like Walmart, Target, Best Buy and those kind of stores but it's not a very big area.
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 10, 2023, 11:17:21 PM
The dense part of Charleston, WV is like 5 miles by maybe a mile. You can pretty much see everything from the Interstate. They do have that little area out on US-119 with stuff like Walmart, Target, Best Buy and those kind of stores but it's not a very big area.
So...a third of the size of Manhattan, very roughly.
Quote from: jgb191 on May 08, 2023, 01:50:08 AM
I didn't know Virginia Beach (VA) and Long Beach (CA) are as large as they are. I would have guessed Norfolk was the largest city in Virgina.
Interestingly, both Chesapeake and Virginia Beach have larger populations than Norfolk. All three are large cities though, and combined with the smaller sized Portsmouth and Suffolk, compromise altogether South Hampton Roads which has over a million population.
Norfolk used to be the largest city in Virginia, but was overtaken by Virginia Beach in the 1980s.
Another city that just came to mind for me: Wheeling, West Virginia. I've been through there on many trips out east along I-70, so I can picture it pretty well.
Coming in eastbound along I-70, it seems like a major city: the great views from the big bridge over the Ohio River, looking out at the casino and the downtown, followed by an Interchange Sequence Sign, a couple exits, a tunnel, and a few more exits. It just seems, you know, big - definitely not as big as nearby Pittsburgh, of course, but at least a decently mid-sized city. The fact that Wheeling is used as the eastbound control city on I-70 in Columbus, Ohio, seems to back that assertion up.
Given all that, I was rather shocked when I looked up the population of Wheeling the other day and found out it was only 26,500. (Not a typo)
A lot of cities that are just suburban sprawl with no real downtown are larger in population than I initially thought.
Asheville, NC feels a lot bigger than 94k. Or at least their traffic issues do.
Jackson, TN also feels bigger than 68k, but Murfreesboro, TN doesn't feel like 152k.
Quote from: dvferyance on May 10, 2023, 08:03:03 PM
Bowling Green KY and Clarksville TN are bigger than I thought. They are the 3rd and 5th most populated in their states.
Yeah Bowling Green is surprising since it has finally surpassed Covington. It's growth is slightly more apparent along I-65 since it has had two new exits added in the past ~20 years, but none of the growth is really very apparent along I-165 (though it might be one day now that it's not just another KY Parkway). Their growth seems to mostly be closer to downtown centered on WKU or along the arterial bypass that US 231 and US 68 is now routed along.
Clarksville has been over 100k for going on 30 years now, but I wouldn't be surprised if Murfreesboro surpasses it by 2030. Though new industrial ventures not tied to Ft. Campbell do play a big part in Clarksville's growth. Murfreesboro's growth is mostly tied to MTSU and to Nashville residential sprawl.
Stamford is now the second largest city in Connecticut, and Hartford has fallen to the fourth largest city in the state. Bridgeport is still the largest city in the state, with New Haven at No. 3.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 21, 2023, 02:28:52 PM
I've found that Fresno (population 542,107) seemingly is far larger than most people thought it was (largely because of the Fresno Road Meet).
Yes one would think Sacramento would be the largest city in California's Central Valley given the attention it gets when in reality it's only 524k population. In Sacramento case it's suburban sprawl from Vacaville to somewhere in the Sierra Nevada mountains give the impression that Sacramento is much larger city. This is like when San Jose is officially the largest city in the Bay Area at 1 million people and San Francisco whose population is really 815k gets most of the attention.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento%2C_California
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento_County,_California
Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2023, 05:15:02 PM
Norfolk used to be the largest city in Virginia, but was overtaken by Virginia Beach in the 1980s.
What is usual about that is Norfolk is considered to be the principle city of Hampton Roads since it's the most urban and is the only one with a real downtown. Virginia Beach is more of a suburb yet it's bigger. While we are on Virginia cities another one which I thought would be bigger is Roanoke. It's just over 100,000 yet they even have a little bit of a skyline unlike other cities of it's similar size like Rockford or Green Bay. I think that having a freeway going through the middle of it also gives it a bigger feel. That is something Rockford doesn't have. Even Lexington KY which has 3 times the population(which I would think also would surprise some) does not have.
Quote from: dvferyance on May 15, 2023, 05:37:53 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2023, 05:15:02 PM
Norfolk used to be the largest city in Virginia, but was overtaken by Virginia Beach in the 1980s.
What is usual about that is Norfolk is considered to be the principle city of Hampton Roads since it's the most urban and is the only one with a real downtown. Virginia Beach is more of a suburb yet it's bigger. While we are on Virginia cities another one which I thought would be bigger is Roanoke. It's just over 100,000 yet they even have a little bit of a skyline unlike other cities of it's similar size like Rockford or Green Bay. I think that having a freeway going through the middle of it also gives it a bigger feel. That is something Rockford doesn't have. Even Lexington KY which has 3 times the population(which I would think also would surprise some) does not have.
While the city of Roanoke only has a population of 100,000, the entire Roanoke-Salem metropolitan area has over 300,000 population, which includes a lot of suburbs that make up the area outside the city limits proper.
Providence, RI metro population: 1.67 million
Rhode Island total population: 1.1 million
Quote from: kurumi on May 15, 2023, 10:27:40 PM
Providence, RI metro population: 1.67 million
Rhode Island total population: 1.1 million
Manhattan in NYC is 1.7 million.
Quote from: kurumi on May 15, 2023, 10:27:40 PM
Providence, RI metro population: 1.67 million
Rhode Island total population: 1.1 million
That's because the whole state is basically Metro Providence, plus a county in Massachusetts that has about 600,000 people.
Quote from: dvferyance on May 15, 2023, 05:37:53 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2023, 05:15:02 PM
Norfolk used to be the largest city in Virginia, but was overtaken by Virginia Beach in the 1980s.
What is usual about that is Norfolk is considered to be the principle city of Hampton Roads since it's the most urban and is the only one with a real downtown. Virginia Beach is more of a suburb yet it's bigger. While we are on Virginia cities another one which I thought would be bigger is Roanoke. It's just over 100,000 yet they even have a little bit of a skyline unlike other cities of it's similar size like Rockford or Green Bay. I think that having a freeway going through the middle of it also gives it a bigger feel. That is something Rockford doesn't have. Even Lexington KY which has 3 times the population(which I would think also would surprise some) does not have.
I suppose "downtown" Virginia Beach would be the boardwalk, right? That is, after all, where most of the shops and restaurants are...
Miami, the main city of the sprawling South Florida region, has a population of only 440,000 - less than half the population of the state's largest city of Jacksonville, which comes in at more than 950,000 and rapidly approaching a million.
I can't believe no one on this thread has mentioned Miami until now! Looking at the map of Florida, it just seems like Miami should be a lot bigger.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on May 16, 2023, 12:20:50 AM
Miami, the main city of the sprawling South Florida region, has a population of only 440,000 - less than half the population of the state's largest city of Jacksonville, which comes in at more than 950,000 and rapidly approaching a million.
I can't believe no one on this thread has mentioned Miami until now! Looking at the map of Florida, it just seems like Miami should be a lot bigger.
The city only takes up 36 square miles, pretty small area but huge metro area.
The county Miami is in is the most populated in the state, yet Jacksonville, that is coextensive with Duval County, is not the most populated. Jacksonville is the most populous city in Florida, but keep in mind Miami- Dade County consists of many other cities besides Miami.
Quote from: kurumi on May 15, 2023, 10:27:40 PM
Providence, RI metro population: 1.67 million
Rhode Island total population: 1.1 million
Similarly:
NYC metro population: 23.6 million
NY state population: 19.84 million
Pinellas County is the most densely populated county in Florida. They have the population that Jacksonville does in a much smaller area. Jacksonville doesn't feel like a real city either, maybe the developed part of it close to downtown might but after you get out of the developed area there's still like 15-20 miles of Jacksonville left where it's pretty much nothing. Like how exactly does this area feel like you are in a city? https://www.google.com/maps/@30.2639317,-81.8864179,3a,75y,310.94h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_h6iN0EGgktZJ0ffifzA3Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 15, 2023, 11:41:56 PM
Quote from: kurumi on May 15, 2023, 10:27:40 PM
Providence, RI metro population: 1.67 million
Rhode Island total population: 1.1 million
That's because the whole state is basically Metro Providence, plus a county in Massachusetts that has about 600,000 people.
Bristol County, MA.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on May 16, 2023, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 15, 2023, 11:41:56 PM
Quote from: kurumi on May 15, 2023, 10:27:40 PM
Providence, RI metro population: 1.67 million
Rhode Island total population: 1.1 million
That's because the whole state is basically Metro Providence, plus a county in Massachusetts that has about 600,000 people.
Bristol County, MA.
Yep and I just realized that Rhode Island is only about 250 square miles bigger than my home county in Michigan (Saginaw), which is an above average county in land area for Michigan but probably not even average for the US. It's about 800 square miles, I thought Rhode Island was bigger than 1,055 square miles wow is that a tiny state.
Speaking of counties, I've thought that San Bernardino-Riverside's metro area population was much smaller than it actually is. Then I looked at the county borders, which both go all the way east to the Arizona border, and San Bernardino County north to Death Valley, for some reason.
The city of Dallas, TX... it's smaller than you would expect since some of the areas you are expecting to be part of Dallas are their own cities (Plano, Rockwall, Irving, Arlington, Richardson, Garland) that border the city of Dallas. On the other hand, while the City of Dallas is mostly in Dallas county, it does extend a little bit into Collin, Denton, Kaufman, and Rockwall counties.
Quote from: ZLoth on May 17, 2023, 09:18:40 AM
The city of Dallas, TX... it's smaller than you would expect since some of the areas you are expecting to be part of Dallas are their own cities (Plano, Rockwall, Irving, Arlington, Richardson, Garland) that border the city of Dallas. On the other hand, while the City of Dallas is mostly in Dallas county, it does extend a little bit into Collin, Denton, Kaufman, and Rockwall counties.
Not from here. In New England, cities don't extend into suburbs (except for former cities that merged into Boston, which applies to the southern half only), so we're used to being 8 miles outside the center and not being within city limits. I believe the same is true for New York (e.g. Albany has suburbs that are almost the size of Albany itself) except for New York City itself which is very well-known to have five boroughs that are all part of the city, and possibly New Jersey and Pennsylvania, but I'm less sure of the last two.
Quote from: ZLoth on May 17, 2023, 09:18:40 AM
The city of Dallas, TX... it's smaller than you would expect since some of the areas you are expecting to be part of Dallas are their own cities (Plano, Rockwall, Irving, Arlington, Richardson, Garland) that border the city of Dallas. On the other hand, while the City of Dallas is mostly in Dallas county, it does extend a little bit into Collin, Denton, Kaufman, and Rockwall counties.
I've been to Dallas, it's about 350 square miles with a population of 1.3 million. Those other cities are what I would expect to be suburbs.
Quote from: 1 on May 17, 2023, 09:22:28 AM
Quote from: ZLoth on May 17, 2023, 09:18:40 AM
The city of Dallas, TX... it's smaller than you would expect since some of the areas you are expecting to be part of Dallas are their own cities (Plano, Rockwall, Irving, Arlington, Richardson, Garland) that border the city of Dallas. On the other hand, while the City of Dallas is mostly in Dallas county, it does extend a little bit into Collin, Denton, Kaufman, and Rockwall counties.
Not from here. In New England, cities don't extend into suburbs (except for former cities that merged into Boston, which applies to the southern half only), so we're used to being 8 miles outside the center and not being within city limits. I believe the same is true for New York (e.g. Albany has suburbs that are almost the size of Albany itself) except for New York City itself which is very well-known to have five boroughs that are all part of the city, and possibly New Jersey and Pennsylvania, but I'm less sure of the last two.
They don't anywhere else either. Like Detroit, you don't expect Warren, Southfield, Dearborn, even Hamtramck or Highland Park to be a part of Detroit because it's not. Detroit annexed the surrounding townships about 100 years ago and the suburbs developed around it due to the auto industry booming. I haven't seen any other city that extends into the suburbs maybe a city like Jacksonville, Florida might be like that.
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 16, 2023, 11:42:08 PM
Speaking of counties, I've thought that San Bernardino-Riverside's metro area population was much smaller than it actually is. Then I looked at the county borders, which both go all the way east to the Arizona border, and San Bernardino County north to Death Valley, for some reason.
San Bernardino County could be a state especially on the east coast.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on May 16, 2023, 12:20:50 AM
Miami, the main city of the sprawling South Florida region, has a population of only 440,000 - less than half the population of the state's largest city of Jacksonville, which comes in at more than 950,000 and rapidly approaching a million.
I can't believe no one on this thread has mentioned Miami until now! Looking at the map of Florida, it just seems like Miami should be a lot bigger.
Jacksonville in my opinion always flies under the radar as a major city in Florida. Denver is a tiny city, the metro is mostly burbs. Indy should have stayed small like denver.
For some reason, I've always thought Boston felt like a big city, but it's a lot smaller than it actually feels. I was surprised to see that El Paso is actually bigger than Boston population wise since it feels small as far as Texas cities go.
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 17, 2023, 09:53:48 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 16, 2023, 11:42:08 PM
Speaking of counties, I've thought that San Bernardino-Riverside's metro area population was much smaller than it actually is. Then I looked at the county borders, which both go all the way east to the Arizona border, and San Bernardino County north to Death Valley, for some reason.
San Bernardino County could be a state especially on the east coast.
Yep. It's larger than Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, and all New England states except Maine by land area. And just a bit smaller than West Virginia.
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 17, 2023, 10:13:19 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 17, 2023, 09:53:48 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 16, 2023, 11:42:08 PM
Speaking of counties, I've thought that San Bernardino-Riverside's metro area population was much smaller than it actually is. Then I looked at the county borders, which both go all the way east to the Arizona border, and San Bernardino County north to Death Valley, for some reason.
San Bernardino County could be a state especially on the east coast.
Yep. It's larger than Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, and all New England states except Maine by land area. And just a bit smaller than West Virginia.
Right I was thinking it's about the same size as West Virginia or South Carolina when I made my post. Off the top of my head I would assume it's bigger than Massachusetts, Rhode Island and Connecticut combined.
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on May 17, 2023, 10:05:03 AM
For some reason, I've always thought Boston felt like a big city, but it's a lot smaller than it actually feels. I was surprised to see that El Paso is actually bigger than Boston population wise since it feels small as far as Texas cities go.
Boston is a very compact city and everything was built in the 1800's it seems like or early 1900's. It covers a small land area of about 48 square miles, roughly the same size as San Francisco but larger than a city like Miami. It's the vast metro area that adds in all the population there. You think your in Boston when your really in Brookline or Cambridge. I always thought Boston covered a small area for being a major city.
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 17, 2023, 09:56:01 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on May 16, 2023, 12:20:50 AM
Miami, the main city of the sprawling South Florida region, has a population of only 440,000 - less than half the population of the state's largest city of Jacksonville, which comes in at more than 950,000 and rapidly approaching a million.
I can't believe no one on this thread has mentioned Miami until now! Looking at the map of Florida, it just seems like Miami should be a lot bigger.
Jacksonville in my opinion always flies under the radar as a major city in Florida. Denver is a tiny city, the metro is mostly burbs. Indy should have stayed small like denver.
Denver is a pretty big city, it has over 700,000 people in a land area of 153 square miles which is larger than Detroit. I'm pretty sure most of that area is taken up by the airport though, the land the airport sits on is like 50 square miles so Denver is really around 100 square miles without the airport being factored in, still a pretty big city.
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 17, 2023, 10:13:19 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 17, 2023, 09:53:48 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 16, 2023, 11:42:08 PM
Speaking of counties, I've thought that San Bernardino-Riverside's metro area population was much smaller than it actually is. Then I looked at the county borders, which both go all the way east to the Arizona border, and San Bernardino County north to Death Valley, for some reason.
San Bernardino County could be a state especially on the east coast.
Yep. It's larger than Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, and all New England states except Maine by land area. And just a bit smaller than West Virginia.
Counties in California are so big that the metro area can include large communities that might be their own metros if they were separate counties. I live in the Coachella Valley which has about 370K permanent residents (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coachella_Valley) (and another 250K part-time residents). This would make it larger than Merced, Marin, and several other counties. And few actually commute all the way to Riverside, the county seat, much less to LA itself; it really could be its own MSA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area)though probably still part of the LA CSA. I seriously doubt the Coachella Valley would be part of the Riverside-San Bernardino MSA if it weren't already part of Riverside County. I don't know how connected the High Desert cities of Lancaster-Palmdale is to LA or Victorville-Hesperia is to San Bernardino, but those communities could conceiveably be their own metros also. Joshua Tree-Yucca Valley might, though it might be part of a larger Indio (the largest Coachella Valley city) MSA.
Isn't San Bernardino County larger in area than the entire state of Rhode Island?
Also San Francisco is excluded in the normal formation of counties in CA as it's only the entire city within its borders. All suburbs of SF are in other counties. The Bay Area includes several counties unlike LA having only a few due to sizes on CA counties there.
Quote from: roadman65 on May 17, 2023, 12:56:31 PM
Isn't San Bernardino County larger in area than the entire state of Rhode Island?
Also San Francisco is excluded in the normal formation of counties in CA as it's only the entire city within its borders. All suburbs of SF are in other counties. The Bay Area includes several counties unlike LA having only a few due to sizes on CA counties there.
San Bernardino County is larger than New Jersey, Connecticut, Delaware and Rhode Island combined. SB County is 20,105 sq mi. RI is 1,545 sq mi. Delaware is 2,489 sq mi. Connecticut is 5,543 sq mi. New Jersey is 8,723 sq mi. If SB county were a state it would be the 42nd largest in area as it's also larger than VT, MD, NH, HI, and MA. Even Riverside County (where I live) is larger at 7,303 sq mi than Connecticut and Rhode Island combined.
Both counties are also populous though much of their population is concentrated in a few areas. SB County has about 2.2 M which would make it the 37th largest in population. Riverside County is 2.4 million. The counties combined (which makes sense as collectively they make the Inland Empire) would be the 25th largest state in population and 41st in area. They don't change much in area rank since states get much bigger starting with West Virginia and South Carolina.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on May 16, 2023, 12:08:28 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on May 15, 2023, 05:37:53 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2023, 05:15:02 PM
Norfolk used to be the largest city in Virginia, but was overtaken by Virginia Beach in the 1980s.
What is usual about that is Norfolk is considered to be the principle city of Hampton Roads since it's the most urban and is the only one with a real downtown. Virginia Beach is more of a suburb yet it's bigger. While we are on Virginia cities another one which I thought would be bigger is Roanoke. It's just over 100,000 yet they even have a little bit of a skyline unlike other cities of it's similar size like Rockford or Green Bay. I think that having a freeway going through the middle of it also gives it a bigger feel. That is something Rockford doesn't have. Even Lexington KY which has 3 times the population(which I would think also would surprise some) does not have.
I suppose "downtown" Virginia Beach would be the boardwalk, right? That is, after all, where most of the shops and restaurants are...
Virginia Beach Towne Center is the closest thing Virgina Beach has to a downtown. That is by the intersection of Virginia Beach Blvd and Independence Ave.
Quote from: roadman65 on May 17, 2023, 12:56:31 PM
Isn't San Bernardino County larger in area than the entire state of Rhode Island?
Also San Francisco is excluded in the normal formation of counties in CA as it's only the entire city within its borders. All suburbs of SF are in other counties. The Bay Area includes several counties unlike LA having only a few due to sizes on CA counties there.
Um yeah by a lot. Rhode Island is 1,055 square miles of land area, San Bernardino County is 20,057 square miles. And that happens often with counties and cities sharing the same borders. Philadelphia is like that too.
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 17, 2023, 09:50:44 AM
Quote from: ZLoth on May 17, 2023, 09:18:40 AM
The city of Dallas, TX... it's smaller than you would expect since some of the areas you are expecting to be part of Dallas are their own cities (Plano, Rockwall, Irving, Arlington, Richardson, Garland) that border the city of Dallas. On the other hand, while the City of Dallas is mostly in Dallas county, it does extend a little bit into Collin, Denton, Kaufman, and Rockwall counties.
I've been to Dallas, it's about 350 square miles with a population of 1.3 million. Those other cities are what I would expect to be suburbs.
According to dictionary.com, one definition of a suburb is "a district lying immediately outside a city or town, especially a smaller residential community." (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/suburb). You have major companies who either have headquarters or major operations that are located in these "suburbs" rather than within the city of Dallas itself, especially if you are driving down the Dallas North Tollway in Plano. The entire campus of the "University of Texas-Dallas" is actually located within the city limits of Richardson. If you live in California, Florida, Illinois, Minnesota, New York, or Texas and submit a routine passport renewal, it gets processed in Irving, Texas.
Well you have cities that have that stuff in the suburbs. Like the Detroit Zoo isn't in Detroit, it's in Royal Oak. Southfield and Troy are two of Detroit's suburbs that have company headquarters in them.
There are lots of places, especially in New Jersey, that have large areas with downtowns up to question. Some municipalities in NJ don't even have business districts like the large townships.
Quote from: roadman65 on May 22, 2023, 11:07:07 PM
There are lots of places, especially in New Jersey, that have large areas with downtowns up to question. Some municipalities in NJ don't even have business districts like the large townships.
Warren is the third largest city in Michigan and lacks a downtown, in fact the center of the city surrounds Center Line this is because Center Line was already a city when the village of Warren and Warren Township became the city of Warren but neither city has a downtown. Sterling Heights which is directly north of Warren lacks a downtown as well. These cities would be a township anywhere else in Michigan.
Des Moines has always felt similar to Omaha and yet only 214,133 people live there according to the 2020 Census. Omaha has 486,051, in comparison.
Waterloo has twice the area (at least) than Cedar Falls, yet only 67,314 people live there, while Cedar Falls has 40,713.
I agree that Des Moines and Omaha feel similar (in size and in many other ways) but their metro populations are more similar than their city limit populations (metro population of around 700k for Des Moines vs. around 1m for Omaha).
It's probably due to much of suburban Omaha being within its city limits, whereas a lot of Des Moines' suburban development is in other municipalities (West Des Moines, Urbandale, Clive, Johnston, etc.) That is, Omaha certainly does have outlying towns/suburbs that aren't part of the city itself (mostly to the south - Ralston, Papillon, LaVista, plus Elkhorn to the west), but there's lots of west Omaha that'd be another city/suburb if it was elsewhere and not in Omaha.
(As another example of Omaha's city:metro area population compared to other midwestern cities, Omaha's population is substantially larger than Minneapolis', despite Minneapolis' metro area being around three times the size.)
Quote from: formulanone on April 21, 2023, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2023, 01:21:33 PM
I met my wife online, and she lived in Branson, MO. The first time I met her in person, I went down there from the Chicago area. From one end of Branson to the other, it's about six miles of hotels and restaurants and theaters and gift shops and museums. So I was surprised to learn later that it only had a population of about 7000 (twenty years ago). I quickly learned that Branson is just a strange combination of visiting tourists and local rednecks, and the former far outnumber the latter. Branson has grown since then, but the population is still well under 15,000.
Pigeon Forge, Tennessee has a resident population of about 6500.
size: big
population: small
pancake restaurants: many
traffic: obnoxious
Same with Gatlinburg. A population of only about 3500, a decrease from almost 4000 in 2010 (though I believe the population loss could be attributed to a fire that affected the area in 2016).
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 22, 2023, 09:38:55 AM
Indianapolis is the 15th largest city but the 33rd largest metro area, so it is a lot larger than it seems.
Indianapolis is a coextensive with Marion County (though minus a number of cities like Speedway and Lawrence), so the city of Indy could possibly be bigger than what it seems.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2023, 01:15:10 PM
I would guess my current locale of Aurora, CO would show up on a lot of people's lists. It's not well known nationally at all but has 386k as of 2020.
For me personally, I think Fort Worth is my answer. You think of it as Dallas' little sister, but it has almost a million people on its own.
For the small side, maybe St. Louis? Less than 300,000 people, but you think of it as a big city.
St. Louis had a population of over 856K in 1950, but has dropped now to below 300K according to 2021 census estimates. However, during the same time frame, the metro grew from 1.6 million to over 2.8 million. Some of that growth can be attributed to counties being added to the metro over that period of time. But since 1980, the metro has netted an increase over 300K.
In regards to Fort Worth, I believe in the not-too-distant future, its population will be larger than Dallas. FW's population has grown at a much faster pace than Dallas. In 2000, FW didn't even have half the population of Dallas (1,188,580 to FW's 534,697). Now, about 352K separate the two cities.
Quote from: golden eagle on May 25, 2023, 10:10:17 PM
Quote from: formulanone on April 21, 2023, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2023, 01:21:33 PM
I met my wife online, and she lived in Branson, MO. The first time I met her in person, I went down there from the Chicago area. From one end of Branson to the other, it's about six miles of hotels and restaurants and theaters and gift shops and museums. So I was surprised to learn later that it only had a population of about 7000 (twenty years ago). I quickly learned that Branson is just a strange combination of visiting tourists and local rednecks, and the former far outnumber the latter. Branson has grown since then, but the population is still well under 15,000.
Pigeon Forge, Tennessee has a resident population of about 6500.
size: big
population: small
pancake restaurants: many
traffic: obnoxious
Same with Gatlinburg. A population of only about 3500, a decrease from almost 4000 in 2010 (though I believe the population loss could be attributed to a fire that affected the area in 2016).
There's still many homes which have not been rebuilt, whereas you'd figure a good deal of them would be profitable rental properties. Though I feel like I could walk from one end of Gatlinburg's city limits along 441 in about 30 minutes, depending on how crowded the sidewalks have become, but the winding paths to the residential areas are probably much trickier to navigate in a straight line.
Quote from: dvferyance on May 17, 2023, 07:10:37 PM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on May 16, 2023, 12:08:28 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on May 15, 2023, 05:37:53 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2023, 05:15:02 PM
Norfolk used to be the largest city in Virginia, but was overtaken by Virginia Beach in the 1980s.
What is usual about that is Norfolk is considered to be the principle city of Hampton Roads since it's the most urban and is the only one with a real downtown. Virginia Beach is more of a suburb yet it's bigger. While we are on Virginia cities another one which I thought would be bigger is Roanoke. It's just over 100,000 yet they even have a little bit of a skyline unlike other cities of it's similar size like Rockford or Green Bay. I think that having a freeway going through the middle of it also gives it a bigger feel. That is something Rockford doesn't have. Even Lexington KY which has 3 times the population(which I would think also would surprise some) does not have.
I suppose "downtown" Virginia Beach would be the boardwalk, right? That is, after all, where most of the shops and restaurants are...
Virginia Beach Towne Center is the closest thing Virgina Beach has to a downtown. That is by the intersection of Virginia Beach Blvd and Independence Ave.
It was stupid for VB not to at least run the much-maligned Tide to Towne Center. It would connect Norfolk's Downtown and ballpark with Towne Center (really a suburban power center shopping district (https://www.commercialrealestate.loans/commercial-real-estate-glossary/power-centers/)). Even better would have brought it to Lynnhaven and Oceana (which could have been done without taking any property) if VB officials didn't want it going to the beach.
I'll say I was very surprised at how populous the entire Tidewater region was when I moved there back in 2003. I had no idea the South Side had over a million people and the Peninsula was home to about a half million more. I was especially surprised to find VB was much more populous than Norfolk as I still thought of it as the beach resort with a naval air station like in the early 80s when one of my coworkers on Diego Garcia received her next assignment to Oceana.
Jacksonville, FL was mentioned upthread.
I was surprised it's not only the largest city in Florida, but actually the largest city in the entire southeastern United States. The city itself is almost twice as big as Atlanta.
Also: Austin is now bigger than San Jose.
Quote from: Chris on May 29, 2023, 05:19:47 PM
Jacksonville, FL was mentioned upthread.
I was surprised it's not only the largest city in Florida, but actually the largest city in the entire southeastern United States. The city itself is almost twice as big as Atlanta.
Also: Austin is now bigger than San Jose.
That's because it merged itself with the unincorporated areas of Duval County in 1968. Only Jacksonville Beach, Neptune, and Atlantic Beach are not part of the city. Baldwin is quasi independent of Duval County and has Jacksonville Police patrol its streets and take care of residents and provides some of its other services, but incorporated separately.
What's incorporated entities is not considered the same per census bureau. We talked about it in another thread using the State of New York as an example.
Buffalo is ranked as second largest city, but someone pointed out that it's only that considering the group of municipalities it falls under only. In reality some town on Nassau County, Long Island is second in population to New York City. Because the census doesn't consider cities and towns to be the same even though they're both incorporated entities of the same nature.
I hadn't known that San Antonio, TX is the 7th largest city, ahead of San Diego, Dallas, and San Jose.
Quote from: Chris on May 29, 2023, 05:19:47 PM
Jacksonville, FL was mentioned upthread.
I was surprised it's not only the largest city in Florida, but actually the largest city in the entire southeastern United States. The city itself is almost twice as big as Atlanta.
Also: Austin is now bigger than San Jose.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin,_Texas
Now I see what you mean Austin has 1.8 Million people according to this figure and it has more people than even San Francisco.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose,_California
San Jose has 1 Million people.
Woah one would expect Austin would be more expensive than San Francisco and San Jose though given the recent hype about NorCal people moving to the area. Also Austin has the same amount of people as Manhattan too.
The Austin city proper population is at 974,000 at the 2022 census estimate, while San Jose is at 971,000.
It's a combination of Austin growing and San Jose declining.
I'm consistently surprised by how many people live in California in suburbs and in the Central Valley. Towns like Visalia, Turlock, and Hesperia constantly shock me for being far bigger than control city-level cities around here (i.e, Victoria, TX; Galveston; Monroe, LA). My little mind can comprehend tons of people living in LA or San Fran proper, even those living in "high profile" suburbs like Anaheim or Santa Ana. However, the fact that so many people live in suburbs and independent Central Valley cities in California that the majority of Americans know nothing about is truly mind-boggling.
Quote from: golden eagle on May 25, 2023, 10:29:32 PM
In regards to Fort Worth, I believe in the not-too-distant future, its population will be larger than Dallas. FW's population has grown at a much faster pace than Dallas. In 2000, FW didn't even have half the population of Dallas (1,188,580 to FW's 534,697). Now, about 352K separate the two cities.
At this current rate (of course subject to change, but let's just assume 'current' rate just for the sake of argument), Ft. Worth would catch and match Dallas' population in 1.5 decades from now (around 2038). But of course Dallas' city population would have to remain stagnant for that long, remains to be seen.
Also the top four largest cities on the I-35 corridor are all in Texas in this order: San Antonio, Dallas, Austin, Ft. Worth; and with the next (fifth) largest city being our northern neighbor Oklahoma City.
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 31, 2023, 01:36:04 PM
I'm consistently surprised by how many people live in California in suburbs and in the Central Valley. Towns like Visalia, Turlock, and Hesperia constantly shock me for being far bigger than control city-level cities around here (i.e, Victoria, TX; Galveston; Monroe, LA). My little mind can comprehend tons of people living in LA or San Fran proper, even those living in "high profile" suburbs like Anaheim or Santa Ana. However, the fact that so many people live in suburbs and independent Central Valley cities in California that the majority of Americans know nothing about is truly mind-boggling.
My wife claims to have called out of work once under the pretense that she "caught Turlock." She's originally from Dos Palos for some context of how much even the Central Valley locals have heard of Turlock.
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 31, 2023, 01:36:04 PM
I'm consistently surprised by how many people live in California in suburbs and in the Central Valley. Towns like Visalia, Turlock, and Hesperia constantly shock me for being far bigger than control city-level cities around here (i.e, Victoria, TX; Galveston; Monroe, LA). My little mind can comprehend tons of people living in LA or San Fran proper, even those living in "high profile" suburbs like Anaheim or Santa Ana. However, the fact that so many people live in suburbs and independent Central Valley cities in California that the majority of Americans know nothing about is truly mind-boggling.
Reminds me of some recently incorporated suburbs in the Atlanta area. Sandy Springs was incorporated in 2005 or 2006, but is already the seventh-largest city in the state at over 108K. Right behind it is South Fulton (incorporated in 2017) at 107,436. These are significantly larger than established suburbs like Alpharetta and Marietta.
Difference with the Central Valley is that very few of these cities are suburbs. Most are standalone cities and have a clear break in development from each other.
I admit I was surprised at the size of some Central Valley cities when I moved to Cali. I knew Sacramento, Fresno, and Bakersfield were large. What I didn't know about was how large some other cities are. I would never expected these:
Stockton 414,847 !!!!
Modesto 218,069
Visalia 143,966
Clovis 124,556 (Fresno suburb)
Chico 101,299
Tracy 97,328
Redding 92,906 (a lot of people that far north)
I expected the cities above to be more like Merced (91,563) and Manteca (86,928) with Chico, Redding, and Tracy to be something like 50-70K. And that doesn't even include those cities metros.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 01, 2023, 05:33:05 PM
Difference with the Central Valley is that very few of these cities are suburbs. Most are standalone cities and have a clear break in development from each other.
True and when there are suburbs in the Central Valley they tend to be within a 30 mile radius to Sacramento. Elk Grove, Woodland, Roseville, Vacaville are some of the most notable ones.
I was going to mention Dallas but someone already did. People think dallas is so large because so many conflate Dallas with all the small cities that are part or the metroplex. Actual Dallas proper is smaller in size and population than San Antonio.
And cities in Texas are generally larger than cities in other states so the scale of what is and isn't a major city can be a bit fuzzy. I'm from Louisiana where "major city" includes Lafayette and lake Charles, at like 120,000 and 60,000 people respectively. In Mississippi, a "major city" is somewhere like Vicksburg or Meridian, both well under 100,000.
In Texas, we don't even consider Amarillo or Lubbock "major cities." They are some of our smaller "large cities." And both have populations over 200,000. Even Corpus Christi isn't considered a major city, with its 350,000. Because major city for us means Houston, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso, Dallas, Ft Worth.
The other thing people don't realize is just how large the Rio Grande Valley is. Tons or smaller cities all clumped together and over one million people.
I mentioned earlier how shocking it is for Flagstaff's population not being in the six-figures.
I am also surprised Duluth isn't also well into the six-figures; you'd think one of the busier ports in North America would have had at least 200K in the city itself (maybe even approaching a quarter-million residents).
Quote from: jgb191 on June 09, 2023, 10:42:24 AM
I mentioned earlier how shocking it is for Flagstaff's population not being in the six-figures.
I am also surprised Duluth isn't also well into the six-figures; you'd think one of the busier ports in North America would have had at least 200K in the city itself (maybe even approaching a quarter-million residents).
The Duluth-Superior MSA has nearly 300,000 people. There's a reason why they're called the Twin Ports...
Quote from: Rothman on June 09, 2023, 10:44:00 AM
Quote from: jgb191 on June 09, 2023, 10:42:24 AM
I mentioned earlier how shocking it is for Flagstaff's population not being in the six-figures.
I am also surprised Duluth isn't also well into the six-figures; you'd think one of the busier ports in North America would have had at least 200K in the city itself (maybe even approaching a quarter-million residents).
The Duluth-Superior MSA has nearly 300,000 people. There's a reason why they're called the Twin Ports...
"Twin" used very loosely. The Wisconsin side accounts for less than a sixth of that 300k.
Quote from: Chris on May 29, 2023, 05:19:47 PM
Jacksonville, FL was mentioned upthread.
I was surprised it's not only the largest city in Florida, but actually the largest city in the entire southeastern United States. The city itself is almost twice as big as Atlanta.
Charlotte, NC may catch Jacksonville in that regard one day. With its continuous annexing of land that hasn't already been taken by a nearby town and resulting increase in population, don't be surprised if it happens a decade or two down the road.
Quote from: thspfc on June 09, 2023, 09:41:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 09, 2023, 10:44:00 AM
Quote from: jgb191 on June 09, 2023, 10:42:24 AM
I mentioned earlier how shocking it is for Flagstaff's population not being in the six-figures.
I am also surprised Duluth isn't also well into the six-figures; you'd think one of the busier ports in North America would have had at least 200K in the city itself (maybe even approaching a quarter-million residents).
The Duluth-Superior MSA has nearly 300,000 people. There's a reason why they're called the Twin Ports...
"Twin" used very loosely. The Wisconsin side accounts for less than a sixth of that 300k.
You forgot to add in Oliver.
Besides, the natural harbor is in Superior. Duluth's harbor requires constant dredging.
I thought Gloucester Point, VA was way smaller than around 9,000 people.
Quote from: Rothman on June 09, 2023, 10:04:15 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 09, 2023, 09:41:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 09, 2023, 10:44:00 AM
Quote from: jgb191 on June 09, 2023, 10:42:24 AM
I mentioned earlier how shocking it is for Flagstaff's population not being in the six-figures.
I am also surprised Duluth isn't also well into the six-figures; you'd think one of the busier ports in North America would have had at least 200K in the city itself (maybe even approaching a quarter-million residents).
The Duluth-Superior MSA has nearly 300,000 people. There's a reason why they're called the Twin Ports...
"Twin" used very loosely. The Wisconsin side accounts for less than a sixth of that 300k.
You forgot to add in Oliver.
Besides, the natural harbor is in Superior. Duluth's harbor requires constant dredging.
I used Douglas County's total population. Only 44k.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming
Here's an interesting one the entire state of Wyomings population can fit in places like Fresno, and Sacramento city propers.
Quote from: bing101 on June 11, 2023, 11:31:35 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming
Here's an interesting one the entire state of Wyomings population can fit in places like Fresno, and Sacramento city propers.
I would be there'd be more people in those cities interested in moving to Wyoming than the other way around. I know I would.
Quote from: MikieTimT on June 12, 2023, 01:37:24 PM
Quote from: bing101 on June 11, 2023, 11:31:35 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming
Here's an interesting one the entire state of Wyomings population can fit in places like Fresno, and Sacramento city propers.
I would be there'd be more people in those cities interested in moving to Wyoming than the other way around. I know I would.
People have tried, but that Wyoming wind just blows them back out of state.
Quote from: kurumi on May 15, 2023, 10:27:40 PM
Providence, RI metro population: 1.67 million
Rhode Island total population: 1.1 million
Rhode Island's land area and Population size can fit inside Sacramento County, CA. Yes the State of Rhode Island is close to the same size as Sacramento County,CA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhode_Island
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento_County,_California
I thought Ocean City, MD was way larger in population.
Only 6,844 at the 2020 census. I was honestly expecting around 20-25k.
Quote from: zzcarp on June 12, 2023, 01:50:59 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on June 12, 2023, 01:37:24 PM
Quote from: bing101 on June 11, 2023, 11:31:35 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming
Here's an interesting one the entire state of Wyomings population can fit in places like Fresno, and Sacramento city propers.
I would be there'd be more people in those cities interested in moving to Wyoming than the other way around. I know I would.
People have tried, but that Wyoming wind just blows them back out of state.
Considering Florida is grown and surpassed New York and now is third populous state in nation, I'm kind of envious of Wyoming not having greedy developers bulldoze the open ranges. Our state is always building and never stops as every rural parcel is $$$ to private and public organizations.
However the cold temps between November and late May have a lot to do with that as Florida rarely drops below 50 in those months.
Fresno ca is a lot bigger than people think with traffic and a population of about a million up from the 2010 census
Quote from: roadman65 on July 03, 2023, 06:09:35 PM
However the cold temps between November and late May have a lot to do with that as Florida rarely drops below 50 in those months.
This has long been a problem for many northern tier states with harsh winters that the remote work era then kicked into another gear. Some Midwestern states are realizing they need to remake themselves and their images as "destination states" in order to reverse or at least slow the trends, some with varying approaches. South Dakota has gone all-in on trying to appeal to disaffected blue-state conservatives to consider choosing it over the traditional Sun Belt options, while Minnesota used its most recent legislative session to try to create in its government's words "the best state to raise a family" . Obviously no legislation can fix winter here, and it's admittedly not for everyone.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 04, 2023, 10:35:01 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 03, 2023, 06:09:35 PM
However the cold temps between November and late May have a lot to do with that as Florida rarely drops below 50 in those months.
This has long been a problem for many northern tier states with harsh winters that the remote work era then kicked into another gear. Some Midwestern states are realizing they need to remake themselves and their images as "destination states" in order to reverse or at least slow the trends, some with varying approaches. South Dakota has gone all-in on trying to appeal to disaffected blue-state conservatives to consider choosing it over the traditional Sun Belt options, while Minnesota used its most recent legislative session to try to create in its government's words "the best state to raise a family" . Obviously no legislation can fix winter here, and it's admittedly not for everyone.
The invention of the air conditioner was the worst thing to ever happen to the Northeast and Upper Midwest.
I never thought that Mesa, Arizona and Memphis were actually bigger than Miami. Miami feels a lot bigger than it actually is population wise.
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on July 04, 2023, 10:49:00 PM
I never thought that Mesa, Arizona and Memphis were actually bigger than Miami. Miami feels a lot bigger than it actually is population wise.
Well, there's Miami proper and then Miami + surrounding cities with "Miami" + suburbs and suddenly you have 2 million people in Miami-Dade County. It's even more once the unbroken stretch north to Jupiter is counted.
If Miami was just some isolated city, but throw in Miami Beach (because otherwise Miami just being there would just be kind of pointless) then it would be roughly the size of Wichita's metro area.
Quote from: formulanone on July 05, 2023, 02:55:21 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on July 04, 2023, 10:49:00 PM
I never thought that Mesa, Arizona and Memphis were actually bigger than Miami. Miami feels a lot bigger than it actually is population wise.
Well, there's Miami proper and then Miami + surrounding cities with "Miami" + suburbs and suddenly you have 2 million people in Miami-Dade County. It's even more once the unbroken stretch north to Jupiter is counted.
If Miami was just some isolated city, but throw in Miami Beach (because otherwise Miami just being there would just be kind of pointless) then it would be roughly the size of Wichita's metro area.
I know this isn't the reality, but in my mind I built a picture of Fort Lauderdale and Hollywood being "suburbs" of Miami, while Boca, Pompano and West Palm are their own entities. Yes, I know about FLL. I'm not from the area.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 04, 2023, 10:35:01 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 03, 2023, 06:09:35 PM
However the cold temps between November and late May have a lot to do with that as Florida rarely drops below 50 in those months.
This has long been a problem for many northern tier states with harsh winters that the remote work era then kicked into another gear. Some Midwestern states are realizing they need to remake themselves and their images as "destination states" in order to reverse or at least slow the trends, some with varying approaches. South Dakota has gone all-in on trying to appeal to disaffected blue-state conservatives to consider choosing it over the traditional Sun Belt options, while Minnesota used its most recent legislative session to try to create in its government's words "the best state to raise a family" . Obviously no legislation can fix winter here, and it's admittedly not for everyone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_net_migration
South Dakota has had something that Sunbelt states like California, Hawaii, and New Mexico haven't had: Net positive domestic in-migration in the last two years totaling 14,711 new residents. And SD's rate of positive domestic migration per 1000 residents currently beats that of high-growth places like Colorado and Georgia.
And yes, this South Dakota native is surprised at this situation, as this has not been happening to South Dakota in more than 100 years.
Worcester, MA now has over 200,000 people for the first time since 1950. It is the second largest city in New England, but because it is so close to Boston its size isn't as noticeable.
Quote from: brad2971 on July 05, 2023, 09:34:36 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 04, 2023, 10:35:01 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 03, 2023, 06:09:35 PM
However the cold temps between November and late May have a lot to do with that as Florida rarely drops below 50 in those months.
This has long been a problem for many northern tier states with harsh winters that the remote work era then kicked into another gear. Some Midwestern states are realizing they need to remake themselves and their images as "destination states" in order to reverse or at least slow the trends, some with varying approaches. South Dakota has gone all-in on trying to appeal to disaffected blue-state conservatives to consider choosing it over the traditional Sun Belt options, while Minnesota used its most recent legislative session to try to create in its government's words "the best state to raise a family" . Obviously no legislation can fix winter here, and it's admittedly not for everyone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_net_migration
South Dakota has had something that Sunbelt states like California, Hawaii, and New Mexico haven't had: Net positive domestic in-migration in the last two years totaling 14,711 new residents. And SD's rate of positive domestic migration per 1000 residents currently beats that of high-growth places like Colorado and Georgia.
And yes, this South Dakota native is surprised at this situation, as this has not been happening to South Dakota in more than 100 years.
You can thank the energy sector and more specifically, fracking for that.
Quote from: Road Hog on July 06, 2023, 09:46:39 PM
Quote from: brad2971 on July 05, 2023, 09:34:36 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 04, 2023, 10:35:01 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 03, 2023, 06:09:35 PM
However the cold temps between November and late May have a lot to do with that as Florida rarely drops below 50 in those months.
This has long been a problem for many northern tier states with harsh winters that the remote work era then kicked into another gear. Some Midwestern states are realizing they need to remake themselves and their images as “destination states” in order to reverse or at least slow the trends, some with varying approaches. South Dakota has gone all-in on trying to appeal to disaffected blue-state conservatives to consider choosing it over the traditional Sun Belt options, while Minnesota used its most recent legislative session to try to create in its government’s words “the best state to raise a family”. Obviously no legislation can fix winter here, and it’s admittedly not for everyone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_net_migration
South Dakota has had something that Sunbelt states like California, Hawaii, and New Mexico haven't had: Net positive domestic in-migration in the last two years totaling 14,711 new residents. And SD's rate of positive domestic migration per 1000 residents currently beats that of high-growth places like Colorado and Georgia.
And yes, this South Dakota native is surprised at this situation, as this has not been happening to South Dakota in more than 100 years.
You can thank the energy sector and more specifically, fracking for that.
There you go again, confusing the Dakotas. NORTH Dakota has the oil/gas fracking. A fair number of your fellow Texans go up there to work in the Bakken formation, so I'd think you would know that.
Touchy much?
From the smallest control cities thread, someone posted about Wisconsin Dells. I was going to bring up Tomah because I thought it was only 2-3K, but it's roughly 10K. I actually didn't know Tomah was that large.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on July 06, 2023, 05:49:53 AM
Worcester, MA now has over 200,000 people for the first time since 1950. It is the second largest city in New England, but because it is so close to Boston its size isn't as noticeable.
I would have never guessed that Worcester is bigger than Providence.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 09, 2023, 07:00:15 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on July 06, 2023, 05:49:53 AM
Worcester, MA now has over 200,000 people for the first time since 1950. It is the second largest city in New England, but because it is so close to Boston its size isn't as noticeable.
I would have never guessed that Worcester is bigger than Providence.
Now that the lead levels in Providence's public water supply are well known, perhaps not so much...
I remember when Gilbert, Arizona had 35,000 people. Was back there a month ago and realized the population has since ballooned to almost 300K and there's nothing rural about it anymore aside from a few holdout dairy farms. And to think it's still incorporated under Arizona law as a town...
Drive thru Farmington, New Mexico about 8 years ago and was shocked by the traffic congestion and number of stores and restaurants.
Both McKinney and Frisco have now surpassed Little Rock in population. They're only within a few thousand of each other, but I still find it amazing that McKinney manages to have just 3 high schools (one of them still 5A) while Frisco now has 12.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 09, 2023, 07:00:15 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on July 06, 2023, 05:49:53 AM
Worcester, MA now has over 200,000 people for the first time since 1950. It is the second largest city in New England, but because it is so close to Boston its size isn't as noticeable.
I would have never guessed that Worcester is bigger than Providence.
Nor would I until relatively recently. Both cities have grown since 2000, but Worcester seems to have outpaced Providence for reasons that aren't always clear since they're so similar.
Another tidbit I found surprising is that Stamford is now Connecticut's second largest city, edging New Haven by around 1k.
I'm from the fifth-largest metro area in USA/Canada.
When I visit a new place, oftentimes I am in awe about how many times I can fit this city or state inside of the Toronto area, and realize how big this metro area really is. E.g. visiting Vermont, which has a population of just 600k, I was in awe that so few people live in a state with a population less than Toronto's biggest suburb, Mississauga.
Since the development in Myrtle Beach is spread along the coast, it feels bigger than it is. The population within Myrtle Beach city limits is about 37,000.
But, the population of Horry County is around 350,000, including all the cities.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on August 23, 2023, 08:10:34 PM
Since the development in Myrtle Beach is spread along the coast, it feels bigger than it is. The population within Myrtle Beach city limits is about 37,000.
But, the population of Horry County is around 350,000, including all the cities.
Lots of population living in unincorporated areas. And the tourist population during peak vacation times makes it feel even bigger. The road network should be built out to sustain a population at least twice that of Horry County. Yet they still can't get a groundbreaking on a real interstate.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 09, 2023, 07:00:15 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on July 06, 2023, 05:49:53 AM
Worcester, MA now has over 200,000 people for the first time since 1950. It is the second largest city in New England, but because it is so close to Boston its size isn't as noticeable.
I would have never guessed that Worcester is bigger than Providence.
I would've guessed they were similar in size and certainly in the same "tier" of city. But then I'm baking in some level of outsized recognition of Providence relative to its size, given it's a capital city and dominant in RI, while Boston is dominant in MA.
I was amazed when I found out Wilmington DE has only 70,000. I did once have a peak population of 112,000 but I would have guessed more than that. I wonder if there is a lot of unincorporated developed areas around the city that makes it feel bigger than it is.
Quote from: dvferyance on August 26, 2023, 06:30:58 PM
I was amazed when I found out Wilmington DE has only 70,000. I did once have a peak population of 112,000 but I would have guessed more than that. I wonder if there is a lot of unincorporated developed areas around the city that makes it feel bigger than it is.
I believe that it is. There are a lot of places with Wilmington addresses that aren't part of the incorporated city.
Quote from: TheStranger on May 08, 2023, 03:59:42 AM
From my multiple trips to the Philippines in recent years:
- the extreme density of the Metro Manila area (with 13 million people in just the metro region) means that some ostensible "suburbs" are pretty large in size:
Caloocan (granted, essentially two non-contiguous areas that border Manila and Quezon City) at 1.6 million
Las Pinas at 600K (just a bit smaller than the actual destination city/financial center of Makati)
Paranaque at 689K (larger than Makati)
Pasay at 440K (though a friend of mine doesn't consider Pasay as a suburb at all)
Malabon at 380K
Marikina at 456K
Muntinlupa at 543K (this city includes the suburban commercial district of Alabang)
Valenzuela at 714K
- My family's hometown in Concepcion, Tarlac was described to me over the years as some sort of small town, when it is more like a Modesto-type big town amidst a farming area. Current population: 169K
- The largest city in the province of Bulacan (partially rural, partially Manila suburbs) is San Jose Del Monte...at...651K!
- I've known for years that Quezon City is larger than the actual City of Manila, but it's wild that this is by a factor of about 170% (Manila at 1.8 million, Quezon City at nearly 3 million) - it's not obvious that QC has more people than Chicago!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Clark
Metro Clark in the Philippines has the same total Amount of people as the populations of Manhattan, Sacramento County, Philadelphia, Providence at 1 million people.
I was recently surprised to find out just how many large cities there are along I-95 in Florida, many of which I had never heard of.
Boone, NC is bigger than I thought.
I learned recently that Lexington KY's city limits population is larger than Cincinnati. Would've not guessed that at all from how much urban Cincinnati feels in every way, and the metro area population for each shows.
Quote from: SkyPesos on August 29, 2023, 01:14:52 AM
I learned recently that Lexington KY's city limits population is larger than Cincinnati. Would've not guessed that at all from how much urban Cincinnati feels in every way, and the metro area population for each shows.
Lexington's city limits encompass all of Fayette County. The city limits area is around 285 square miles verses Cincinnati's 79.5 square miles, giving a population density of 1137/sq mi verses 3970/sq mi, with the totals (using 2020 census figures) of 322,570 residents for Lexington and 309,317 residents for Cincinnati. However, it is surprising that Lexington's population has surpassed Cincinnati's considering that in 2000, Lexington had ~260,000 residents and Cincinnati had ~331,000 residents.
Most of the increase in Lexington's population seems centered around New Circle Road and Man O' War Blvd between US 68 and I-75 south of the downtown area.
Quote from: amroad17 on August 29, 2023, 02:09:33 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on August 29, 2023, 01:14:52 AM
I learned recently that Lexington KY's city limits population is larger than Cincinnati. Would've not guessed that at all from how much urban Cincinnati feels in every way, and the metro area population for each shows.
Lexington's city limits encompass all of Fayette County. The city limits area is around 285 square miles verses Cincinnati's 79.5 square miles, giving a population density of 1137/sq mi verses 3970/sq mi, with the totals (using 2020 census figures) of 322,570 residents for Lexington and 309,317 residents for Cincinnati. However, it is surprising that Lexington's population has surpassed Cincinnati's considering that in 2000, Lexington had ~260,000 residents and Cincinnati had ~331,000 residents.
Most of the increase in Lexington's population seems centered around New Circle Road and Man O' War Blvd between US 68 and I-75 south of the downtown area.
Lexington/Fayette County has two development zones: the Urban Services District and the Rural Services District. It's like the equivalent of city limits, but mostly for city services. Within the USD there are street lights, sewers, and the bulk of the commercial and residential development. Within the RSD, there are the horse farms, many of which are historic and preserved. The end result has been denser and smarter development within the USD, since it's a very big deal to try to expand the boundaries of it.
There is still room for more development near I-75 and Man O' War and the areas that amroad17 described, but they won't last long. Jessamine County is starting to see most of the neighboring county growth due to it being the closest to Downtown Lexington, with Scott, Clark, and Madison Counties also seeing some growth though they are flung farther out. Woodford County has a lot of the preservationist zoning that the Lexington/Fayette RSD has so it's growth has been limited.
The Nicholasville Bypass certainly seems to have been built to spur development...
Quote from: SkyPesos on August 29, 2023, 01:14:52 AM
I learned recently that Lexington KY's city limits population is larger than Cincinnati. Would've not guessed that at all from how much urban Cincinnati feels in every way, and the metro area population for each shows.
Because there is a lot of developed unincorporated territory in Hamilton County that is adjacent to Cincinati but not part of the city itself. If it was Cincy's population would be around 450,000.
Cincinnati is 77 square miles compared to Lexington at 283 square miles if you had 283 square miles out of Cincinnati's urban area you'd have a larger population than Lexington does. Cincy is about 750 square miles for urban area with a population of right around 1.7 million compared to Lexington's urban area being 87.5 square miles and 315,000 for a population that right there shows how rural Lexington is since the city limits take up so much land area it does make sense that Lexington proper has more people than Cincy proper.