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Cities that are a lot bigger or smaller than you thought they were

Started by KCRoadFan, April 21, 2023, 01:06:57 PM

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Flint1979

Quote from: roadman65 on May 17, 2023, 12:56:31 PM
Isn't San Bernardino County larger in area than the entire state of Rhode Island?

Also San Francisco is excluded in the normal formation of counties in CA as it's only the entire city within its borders. All suburbs of SF are in other counties.  The Bay Area includes several counties unlike LA having only a few due to sizes on CA counties there.
Um yeah by a lot. Rhode Island is 1,055 square miles of land area, San Bernardino County is 20,057 square miles. And that happens often with counties and cities sharing the same borders. Philadelphia is like that too.


ZLoth

Quote from: Flint1979 on May 17, 2023, 09:50:44 AM
Quote from: ZLoth on May 17, 2023, 09:18:40 AM
The city of Dallas, TX... it's smaller than you would expect since some of the areas you are expecting to be part of Dallas are their own cities (Plano, Rockwall, Irving, Arlington, Richardson, Garland) that border the city of Dallas. On the other hand, while the City of Dallas is mostly in Dallas county, it does extend a little bit into Collin, Denton, Kaufman, and Rockwall counties.
I've been to Dallas, it's about 350 square miles with a population of 1.3 million. Those other cities are what I would expect to be suburbs.

According to dictionary.com, one definition of a suburb is "a district lying immediately outside a city or town, especially a smaller residential community.". You have major companies who either have headquarters or major operations that are located in these "suburbs" rather than within the city of Dallas itself, especially if you are driving down the Dallas North Tollway in Plano. The entire campus of the "University of Texas-Dallas" is actually located within the city limits of Richardson. If you live in California, Florida, Illinois, Minnesota, New York, or Texas and submit a routine passport renewal, it gets processed in Irving, Texas.

I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

Flint1979

Well you have cities that have that stuff in the suburbs. Like the Detroit Zoo isn't in Detroit, it's in Royal Oak. Southfield and Troy are two of Detroit's suburbs that have company headquarters in them.

roadman65

There are lots of places, especially in New Jersey, that have large areas with downtowns up to question.   Some municipalities in NJ don't even have business districts like the large townships.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Flint1979

Quote from: roadman65 on May 22, 2023, 11:07:07 PM
There are lots of places, especially in New Jersey, that have large areas with downtowns up to question.   Some municipalities in NJ don't even have business districts like the large townships.
Warren is the third largest city in Michigan and lacks a downtown, in fact the center of the city surrounds Center Line this is because Center Line was already a city when the village of Warren and Warren Township became the city of Warren but neither city has a downtown. Sterling Heights which is directly north of Warren lacks a downtown as well. These cities would be a township anywhere else in Michigan.

DandyDan

Des Moines has always felt similar to Omaha and yet only 214,133 people live there according to the 2020 Census. Omaha has 486,051, in comparison.

Waterloo has twice the area (at least) than Cedar Falls, yet only 67,314 people live there, while Cedar Falls has 40,713.
MORE FUN THAN HUMANLY THOUGHT POSSIBLE

tman

I agree that Des Moines and Omaha feel similar (in size and in many other ways) but their metro populations are more similar than their city limit populations (metro population of around 700k for Des Moines vs. around 1m for Omaha).

It's probably due to much of suburban Omaha being within its city limits, whereas a lot of Des Moines' suburban development is in other municipalities (West Des Moines, Urbandale, Clive, Johnston, etc.) That is, Omaha certainly does have outlying towns/suburbs that aren't part of the city itself (mostly to the south - Ralston, Papillon, LaVista, plus Elkhorn to the west), but there's lots of west Omaha that'd be another city/suburb if it was elsewhere and not in Omaha.

(As another example of Omaha's city:metro area population compared to other midwestern cities, Omaha's population is substantially larger than Minneapolis', despite Minneapolis' metro area being around three times the size.)

golden eagle

Quote from: formulanone on April 21, 2023, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2023, 01:21:33 PM
I met my wife online, and she lived in Branson, MO.  The first time I met her in person, I went down there from the Chicago area.  From one end of Branson to the other, it's about six miles of hotels and restaurants and theaters and gift shops and museums.  So I was surprised to learn later that it only had a population of about 7000 (twenty years ago).  I quickly learned that Branson is just a strange combination of visiting tourists and local rednecks, and the former far outnumber the latter.  Branson has grown since then, but the population is still well under 15,000.

Pigeon Forge, Tennessee has a resident population of about 6500.

size: big
population: small
pancake restaurants: many
traffic: obnoxious

Same with Gatlinburg. A population of only about 3500, a decrease from almost 4000 in 2010 (though I believe the population loss could be attributed to a fire that affected the area in 2016).

golden eagle

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 22, 2023, 09:38:55 AM
Indianapolis is the 15th largest city but the 33rd largest metro area, so it is a lot larger than it seems.

Indianapolis is a coextensive with Marion County (though minus a number of cities like Speedway and Lawrence), so the city of Indy could possibly be bigger than what it seems.

golden eagle

Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2023, 01:15:10 PM
I would guess my current locale of Aurora, CO would show up on a lot of people's lists. It's not well known nationally at all but has 386k as of 2020.

For me personally, I think Fort Worth is my answer. You think of it as Dallas' little sister, but it has almost a million people on its own.

For the small side, maybe St. Louis? Less than 300,000 people, but you think of it as a big city.

St. Louis had a population of over 856K in 1950, but has dropped now to below 300K according to 2021 census estimates. However, during the same time frame, the metro grew from 1.6 million to over 2.8 million. Some of that growth can be attributed to counties being added to the metro over that period of time. But since 1980, the metro has netted an increase over 300K.

In regards to Fort Worth, I believe in the not-too-distant future, its population will be larger than Dallas. FW's population has grown at a much faster pace than Dallas. In 2000, FW didn't even have half the population of Dallas (1,188,580 to FW's 534,697). Now, about 352K separate the two cities.   

formulanone

Quote from: golden eagle on May 25, 2023, 10:10:17 PM
Quote from: formulanone on April 21, 2023, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2023, 01:21:33 PM
I met my wife online, and she lived in Branson, MO.  The first time I met her in person, I went down there from the Chicago area.  From one end of Branson to the other, it's about six miles of hotels and restaurants and theaters and gift shops and museums.  So I was surprised to learn later that it only had a population of about 7000 (twenty years ago).  I quickly learned that Branson is just a strange combination of visiting tourists and local rednecks, and the former far outnumber the latter.  Branson has grown since then, but the population is still well under 15,000.

Pigeon Forge, Tennessee has a resident population of about 6500.

size: big
population: small
pancake restaurants: many
traffic: obnoxious

Same with Gatlinburg. A population of only about 3500, a decrease from almost 4000 in 2010 (though I believe the population loss could be attributed to a fire that affected the area in 2016).

There's still many homes which have not been rebuilt, whereas you'd figure a good deal of them would be profitable rental properties. Though I feel like I could walk from one end of Gatlinburg's city limits along 441 in about 30 minutes, depending on how crowded the sidewalks have become, but the winding paths to the residential areas are probably much trickier to navigate in a straight line.

skluth

Quote from: dvferyance on May 17, 2023, 07:10:37 PM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on May 16, 2023, 12:08:28 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on May 15, 2023, 05:37:53 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2023, 05:15:02 PM
Norfolk used to be the largest city in Virginia, but was overtaken by Virginia Beach in the 1980s.
What is usual about that is Norfolk is considered to be the principle city of Hampton Roads since it's the most urban and is the only one with a real downtown. Virginia Beach is more of a suburb yet it's bigger. While we are on Virginia cities another one which I thought would be bigger is Roanoke. It's just over 100,000 yet they even have a little bit of a skyline unlike other cities of it's similar size like Rockford or Green Bay. I think that having a freeway going through the middle of it also gives it a bigger feel. That is something Rockford doesn't have. Even Lexington KY which has 3 times the population(which I would think also would surprise some) does not have.

I suppose "downtown" Virginia Beach would be the boardwalk, right? That is, after all, where most of the shops and restaurants are...
Virginia Beach Towne Center is the closest thing Virgina Beach has to a downtown. That is by the intersection of Virginia Beach Blvd and Independence Ave.

It was stupid for VB not to at least run the much-maligned Tide to Towne Center. It would connect Norfolk's Downtown and ballpark with Towne Center (really a suburban power center shopping district). Even better would have brought it to Lynnhaven and Oceana (which could have been done without taking any property) if VB officials didn't want it going to the beach.

I'll say I was very surprised at how populous the entire Tidewater region was when I moved there back in 2003. I had no idea the South Side had over a million people and the Peninsula was home to about a half million more. I was especially surprised to find VB was much more populous than Norfolk as I still thought of it as the beach resort with a naval air station like in the early 80s when one of my coworkers on Diego Garcia received her next assignment to Oceana.

Chris

Jacksonville, FL was mentioned upthread.

I was surprised it's not only the largest city in Florida, but actually the largest city in the entire southeastern United States. The city itself is almost twice as big as Atlanta.

Also: Austin is now bigger than San Jose.

roadman65

Quote from: Chris on May 29, 2023, 05:19:47 PM
Jacksonville, FL was mentioned upthread.

I was surprised it's not only the largest city in Florida, but actually the largest city in the entire southeastern United States. The city itself is almost twice as big as Atlanta.

Also: Austin is now bigger than San Jose.

That's because it merged itself with the unincorporated areas of Duval County in 1968.  Only Jacksonville Beach, Neptune, and Atlantic Beach are not part of the city. Baldwin is quasi independent of Duval County and has Jacksonville Police patrol its streets and take care of residents and provides some of its other services, but incorporated separately.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

roadman65

What's incorporated entities is not considered the same per census bureau. We talked about it in another thread using the State of New York as an example.

Buffalo is ranked as second largest city, but someone pointed out that it's only that considering the group of municipalities it falls under only.  In reality some town on Nassau County, Long Island is second in population to New York City. Because the census doesn't consider cities and towns to be the same even though they're both incorporated entities of the same nature.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Ted$8roadFan

I hadn't known that San Antonio, TX is the 7th largest city, ahead of San Diego, Dallas, and San Jose.

bing101

Quote from: Chris on May 29, 2023, 05:19:47 PM
Jacksonville, FL was mentioned upthread.

I was surprised it's not only the largest city in Florida, but actually the largest city in the entire southeastern United States. The city itself is almost twice as big as Atlanta.

Also: Austin is now bigger than San Jose.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin,_Texas
Now I see what you mean Austin has 1.8 Million people according to this figure and it has more people than even San Francisco.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose,_California
San Jose has 1 Million people.
Woah one would expect Austin would be more expensive than San Francisco and San Jose though given the recent hype about NorCal people moving to the area. Also Austin has the same amount of people as Manhattan too.



Chris

The Austin city proper population is at 974,000 at the 2022 census estimate, while San Jose is at 971,000.

It's a combination of Austin growing and San Jose declining.

CoreySamson

I'm consistently surprised by how many people live in California in suburbs and in the Central Valley. Towns like Visalia, Turlock, and Hesperia constantly shock me for being far bigger than control city-level cities around here (i.e, Victoria, TX; Galveston; Monroe, LA). My little mind can comprehend tons of people living in LA or San Fran proper, even those living in "high profile" suburbs like Anaheim or Santa Ana. However, the fact that so many people live in suburbs and independent Central Valley cities in California that the majority of Americans know nothing about is truly mind-boggling.
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jgb191

Quote from: golden eagle on May 25, 2023, 10:29:32 PM
In regards to Fort Worth, I believe in the not-too-distant future, its population will be larger than Dallas. FW's population has grown at a much faster pace than Dallas. In 2000, FW didn't even have half the population of Dallas (1,188,580 to FW's 534,697). Now, about 352K separate the two cities.   

At this current rate (of course subject to change, but let's just assume 'current' rate just for the sake of argument), Ft. Worth would catch and match Dallas' population in 1.5 decades from now (around 2038).  But of course Dallas' city population would have to remain stagnant for that long, remains to be seen.


Also the top four largest cities on the I-35 corridor are all in Texas in this order:  San Antonio, Dallas, Austin, Ft. Worth; and with the next (fifth) largest city being our northern neighbor Oklahoma City.
We're so far south that we're not even considered "The South"

Max Rockatansky

#95
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 31, 2023, 01:36:04 PM
I'm consistently surprised by how many people live in California in suburbs and in the Central Valley. Towns like Visalia, Turlock, and Hesperia constantly shock me for being far bigger than control city-level cities around here (i.e, Victoria, TX; Galveston; Monroe, LA). My little mind can comprehend tons of people living in LA or San Fran proper, even those living in "high profile" suburbs like Anaheim or Santa Ana. However, the fact that so many people live in suburbs and independent Central Valley cities in California that the majority of Americans know nothing about is truly mind-boggling.

My wife claims to have called out of work once under the pretense that she "caught Turlock."   She's originally from Dos Palos for some context of how much even the Central Valley locals have heard of Turlock.

golden eagle

Quote from: CoreySamson on May 31, 2023, 01:36:04 PM
I'm consistently surprised by how many people live in California in suburbs and in the Central Valley. Towns like Visalia, Turlock, and Hesperia constantly shock me for being far bigger than control city-level cities around here (i.e, Victoria, TX; Galveston; Monroe, LA). My little mind can comprehend tons of people living in LA or San Fran proper, even those living in "high profile" suburbs like Anaheim or Santa Ana. However, the fact that so many people live in suburbs and independent Central Valley cities in California that the majority of Americans know nothing about is truly mind-boggling.

Reminds me of some recently incorporated suburbs in the Atlanta area. Sandy Springs was incorporated in 2005 or 2006, but is already the seventh-largest city in the state at over 108K. Right behind it is South Fulton (incorporated in 2017) at 107,436. These are significantly larger than established suburbs like Alpharetta and Marietta.

Max Rockatansky

Difference with the Central Valley is that very few of these cities are suburbs.  Most are standalone cities and have a clear break in development from each other.

skluth

I admit I was surprised at the size of some Central Valley cities when I moved to Cali. I knew Sacramento, Fresno, and Bakersfield were large. What I didn't know about was how large some other cities are. I would never expected these:

Stockton  414,847 !!!!
Modesto  218,069
Visalia  143,966
Clovis  124,556 (Fresno suburb)
Chico  101,299
Tracy  97,328
Redding  92,906 (a lot of people that far north)

I expected the cities above to be more like Merced (91,563) and Manteca (86,928) with Chico, Redding, and Tracy to be something like 50-70K. And that doesn't even include those cities metros.

bing101

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 01, 2023, 05:33:05 PM
Difference with the Central Valley is that very few of these cities are suburbs.  Most are standalone cities and have a clear break in development from each other.
True and when there are suburbs in the Central Valley they tend to be within a 30 mile radius to Sacramento. Elk Grove, Woodland, Roseville, Vacaville are some of the most notable ones.



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