Horizontal Traffic Lights

[kphoger]

There's a crazy amount of pedestrian traffic walking north-south along Michigan Avenue pretty much all the time, so good luck 

What does the ped traffic in Chicago have to do with replacing stoplights?

[signalman]

There's a crazy amount of pedestrian traffic walking north-south along Michigan Avenue pretty much all the time, so good luck 

What does the ped traffic in Chicago have to do with replacing stoplights?

He was responding to jakeroot's comment about being tempted to go to Chicago and turn left on a green ball out of spite.  So Paul is saying that due to peds it'd be nearly impossible to make a left on a green ball.

[jakeroot]

There's a crazy amount of pedestrian traffic walking north-south along Michigan Avenue pretty much all the time, so good luck

What does the ped traffic in Chicago have to do with replacing stoplights?

He was responding to jakeroot's comment about being tempted to go to Chicago and turn left on a green ball out of spite.  So Paul is saying that due to peds it'd be nearly impossible to make a left on a green ball.

He's not wrong that it's swamped with peds, but he's clearly underestimated by ability to wait three inches from the crosswalk for peds to clear.

[kphoger]

You can inch out into the crosswalk all you want:  in Chicago, they won't get out of your way.  If you try turning through the stream of pedestrians in downtown Chicago, they'll just bend their course a bit so they're still in front of your bumper.  You do NOT intimidate them.

[Flint1979]

I was in Chicago the last two days and noticed two different traffic lights that were horizontal. They were like this because of a train viaduct that would block out the red from either side of the viaduct if it was vertical. Otherwise Chicago's traffic lights are vertical.

The location was right off the Kennedy Expressway.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9541074,-87.732547,3a,19.5y,21.92h,92.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk5jYPPkfNR84PJvfMZ4fxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[kphoger]

I was in Chicago the last two days and noticed two different traffic lights that were horizontal. They were like this because of a train viaduct that would block out the red from either side of the viaduct if it was vertical. Otherwise Chicago's traffic lights are vertical.

The location was right off the Kennedy Expressway.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9541074,-87.732547,3a,19.5y,21.92h,92.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk5jYPPkfNR84PJvfMZ4fxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Cicero @ the Stevenson is the same way.

[Flint1979]

I was in Chicago the last two days and noticed two different traffic lights that were horizontal. They were like this because of a train viaduct that would block out the red from either side of the viaduct if it was vertical. Otherwise Chicago's traffic lights are vertical.

The location was right off the Kennedy Expressway.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9541074,-87.732547,3a,19.5y,21.92h,92.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk5jYPPkfNR84PJvfMZ4fxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Cicero @ the Stevenson is the same way.

Yup. Same reason.

[paulthemapguy]

There's a crazy amount of pedestrian traffic walking north-south along Michigan Avenue pretty much all the time, so good luck 

What does the ped traffic in Chicago have to do with replacing stoplights?

You can inch out into the crosswalk all you want:  in Chicago, they won't get out of your way.  If you try turning through the stream of pedestrians in downtown Chicago, they'll just bend their course a bit so they're still in front of your bumper.  You do NOT intimidate them.

Why did you ask and also answer your own question?? 

[kphoger]

There's a crazy amount of pedestrian traffic walking north-south along Michigan Avenue pretty much all the time, so good luck 

What does the ped traffic in Chicago have to do with replacing stoplights?

You can inch out into the crosswalk all you want:  in Chicago, they won't get out of your way.  If you try turning through the stream of pedestrians in downtown Chicago, they'll just bend their course a bit so they're still in front of your bumper.  You do NOT intimidate them.

Why did you ask and also answer your own question?? 

I still fail to see how the one relates to the other.

[jakeroot]

Paul, I think you're confusing kphoger's comment about pedestrians "not being intimidated" by waiting cars, as him indicating that protected left turns would be better than a left-turn-yield setup (thus indicating that ped traffic has something to do with replacing stoplights, which is opposed to his first comment). He's saying that I could inch out and turn on green, regardless of Chicago's "on green arrow only" signs, but that I'll only get to go at the very end of the cycle, not that, I wouldn't be able to go at all (due to the huge numbers of pedestrians).

Oddly enough, most of those left turns along that main drag in Chicago appear to be lagging lefts, meaning that, ultimately, I'd probably end up completing the turn on a green arrow anyway!

[ET21]

I was in Chicago the last two days and noticed two different traffic lights that were horizontal. They were like this because of a train viaduct that would block out the red from either side of the viaduct if it was vertical. Otherwise Chicago's traffic lights are vertical.

The location was right off the Kennedy Expressway.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9541074,-87.732547,3a,19.5y,21.92h,92.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk5jYPPkfNR84PJvfMZ4fxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Many along the Kennedy crossings and interchanges. Think the furthest north in Chicago city limits for the Kennedy is Foster Ave, though Rosemont has them on River Road by the 190/90/294 interchange
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9864507,-87.8608133,3a,75y,192.17h,94.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgCwTQbsylxuz9LcfVAT2BA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[Amtrakprod]

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4911998,-72.8094954,3a,25.3y,205.19h,94.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPmfeVAaS9wlKH24srZwHyQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[David Jr.]

We now go to Union Ave. and W. Skelly Drive in Tulsa, Oklahoma:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0884505,-96.0117086,3a,75y,91.72h,82.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siphElXUjRm1IRl1Tn9PgAw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[byoungblood]

Got this one on Winchester Rd in Memphis. Still kind of hard to see under the bridge, but it is better than the old setup where there was no extra light at all and simply relied on the "Prepare to Stop" flashers on the other side.

https://goo.gl/maps/XTu7HegXdEhAs5C89

[jakeroot]

Got this one on Winchester Rd in Memphis. Still kind of hard to see under the bridge, but it is better than the old setup where there was no extra light at all and simply relied on the "Prepare to Stop" flashers on the other side.

https://goo.gl/maps/XTu7HegXdEhAs5C89

Looks like they also took the time to install a pole-mounted signal on the far left, further improving the visibility under the bridge (even if the signal is briefly blocked by the support columns).

[David Jr.]

Next up, we have I-44 at MO-141 in Valley Park, Missouri (just outside of St. Louis):

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5387117,-90.4956746,3a,15y,202.02h,90.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7TvgFSL1FnkXN5IHBbDDVQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[tolbs17]

What's the point of horizontal traffic signals? Are they to provide safer seeing when stopping and slowing down and going?

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.577166,-77.4313883,3a,75y,124.87h,84.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sICG8s5Qts-hj0eFO4dy5ww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[kphoger]

What's the point of horizontal traffic signals?

This is a good question, and one I've never really considered before.

Anyone have an answer?

[webny99]

What's the point of horizontal traffic signals?

This is a good question, and one I've never really considered before.
Anyone have an answer?

To point out the obvious, horizontal signals are preferred for locations immediately adjacent to an overpass, especially for the direction of traffic for which the overpass may block a motorist's view. If you pan over to the crossroad in mrhappy's link you can see that the signals were vertical as of 2016, and have since been replaced. I have no idea why the responsible department would have done that.

Are they to provide safer seeing when stopping and slowing down and going?

I think you've just coined a new term. "Safer seeing" - Yep, that must be it! 

[paulthemapguy]

What's the point of horizontal traffic signals?

This is a good question, and one I've never really considered before.

Anyone have an answer?

For the most part, no, I don't.  But I do know that horizontal signal heads can help a little bit in situations where vertical clearance is limited.  Illinois never uses them, unless there's something related to vertical clearance that might cause problems.  More specifically:

1) Airplanes taking off nearby (example)
2) An overpass above is blocking sight distance (example)
3) Clearance under a structure limits signal tower placement (example)

Otherwise, I don't see why you would put up a horizontal signal head (Wisconsin and Florida, why?).

[US 89]

Horizontal signals have a lower profile that makes them more resistant to high winds, which explains their use in some hurricane-prone areas of Florida. In addition to FL, a lot of the states that use horizontal signals tend to be located in windy areas: TX, NM, NE, and WI (for example) have large areas on flat plains that get a lot of wind.

[kphoger]

3) Clearance under a structure limits signal tower placement (example)

Ha!  Thanks for reminding me of this story...

I also once found myself under the L tracks at California and Lake after dark one evening, with a drunk guy trying to make a drug deal.  It was my landlord (I was renting a room for cash at the time), we had gone into the city together because I knew the public transit system and he didn't, he had gotten drunk at a hotel bar, we got kicked out, he was flashing money around on the L heading back, asked a big black guy if he had drugs for sale, and the next thing I knew the two of them were standing on the platform at California.  I felt responsible for getting him home, so I got off too.  We headed down to the street, they talked price, my landlord gave him $100, the guy flagged down a friend who was driving by, and then he disappeared.  $100 lighter and no drugs in hand, my landlord and I got back on the train and went home.

[tolbs17]

Horizontal signals have a lower profile that makes them more resistant to high winds, which explains their use in some hurricane-prone areas of Florida. In addition to FL, a lot of the states that use horizontal signals tend to be located in windy areas: TX, NM, NE, and WI (for example) have large areas on flat plains that get a lot of wind.

Never thought of that before. I was thinking poles would fix it but the horizontals are much cheaper in every aspect, but it's pretty rare that I see them around here.

It looks weird in my opinion. I never really liked horizontals.

[DaBigE]

Before Wisconsin moved to a signal head per lane format, horizontal signals also required less mounting hardware. For the most part, everything is self-contained -- no need for additional brackets, just mount directly within the trombone arm structure.

[Revive 755]

Kirkwood, Missouri recently installed a good number of horizontally mounted heads on the stretch of US 61/US 67 they maintain:  Link to project website.