Evidence of speed limits above 55 mph pre-NMSL for metro Chicago tollways

[bahnburner]

As most of us know, the overwhelming majority of tollways around metro Chicago have 55 mph limits... even 30 miles outside the city. This was the result of the National Maximum Speed Law of 55 mph that was enacted around 1974. Many speed limits were higher than 55 mph around the metro area. Many of us saw the Tribune article about "speeding" on our tollways with only 1 in 20 in compliance with the limits and most driving 15+ mph over the limit. Is it really "speeding" or did they forget to raise the speed limits back after the law was repealed?

Ah, here is what I'm referring to. This is what people actually drive.


The Illinois tollway is currently supposedly examining where speed limit increases are suitable before the 70 mph state maximum law goes into effect starting Jan 1st (also reducing the excessive speeding threshold to +26 mph). The problem is that the only increases are where human civilization is practically non-existent:



Here is some evidence I've dug up of speed limits higher than 55 mph for the Chicago metro area pre-NMSL:


text version:

Speed Limit To Go Up to 65 m.p.h.
Passenger car speed limits on the Tri-State Tollway around Chicago from Indiana to Wisconsin will be raised to 65 miles per hour in the near future. This was announced Friday by Charles M, Burgess, chairman of the Illinois State Toll highway Commission, who said that the commission will approve the increased speed limits at a meeting here today. Tollway Speed Limit To Go Up to 65 m.p.h. Burgess said that today's action will bring the 60 mile- per-hour limit on the Tri-State Tollway in Cook county in line with the 65-mph limit now in effect on the Lake county portion and on state highways. The change will be effective as soon as posted speed limit signs on the 83-mile Tri- State Tollway can be changed. Charles L. Dearing, executive director of the commission, said that the commission has moved slowly on raising speed 'limits until it was assured that proposed increases would not adversely affect the safety record established on the tollway. "Extensive engineering and traffic surveys have been made on the Tri-State Tollway. under varying traffic conditions," he said. "The increase in speed limits is recommended by the Commission's engineering department, the. consulting engineer, and by the Tollway Patrol." Today's action brings 135 miles of the Illinois Tollway's 187. miles to'a 65 mph speed limit for passenger cars. The remaining 52 miles on the Northwest Tollway between Elgin and South Beloit have a maximum speed limit of 70 miles per hour.

--The Daily Herald, November 9th, 1959 (pg 37).

There you go. The Tri-State (i-294) was first at 60 mph, then was raised to 65 mph (to match the rest of the tollways) around 1959. I've heard from some people that the Tri-State was even at 70 mph for a short time before the NMSL was enacted. Now the Illinois Tollway claims that the design speed of the Tri State is 60 mph. Based on our evidence, that claim is BS.

My question is, to take this further, does anyone have any evidence that the Tri-State was at 70 mph before 1974 (when the NMSL was enacted)? Or has anyone driven it back then and remember the speed limit? Anything is useful in our fight for reasonable speed limits for the metro Chicago area.

If you're interested in the subject, like the facebook page https://www.facebook.com/raisethespeedlimitinmetrochicagoandillinois to stay up to date and to see how you can help out.

Any help much appreciated.

[agentsteel53]

so basically the speed limit should be 70 urban, 75 rural.  seems consistent with the driving patterns of other states.

how on earth has this not yet been implemented?

[NE2]

I've heard from some people that the Tri-State was even at 70 mph for a short time before the NMSL was enacted. Now the Illinois Tollway claims that the design speed of the Tri State is 60 mph. Based on our evidence, that claim is BS.

Not necessarily. A speed limit can be posted that's greater than the design speed.

[J N Winkler]

I've heard from some people that the Tri-State was even at 70 mph for a short time before the NMSL was enacted. Now the Illinois Tollway claims that the design speed of the Tri State is 60 mph. Based on our evidence, that claim is BS.

Not necessarily. A speed limit can be posted that's greater than the design speed.

This is true.  It is also unclear what the Illinois Tollway means when it says the design speed is 60 MPH.  Was this the title-sheet design speed back in the 1950's when the roads were built, or is that the modern (2011 edition of the Green Book) design speed that corresponds to the geometric design parameters chosen back in the 1950's?

There is an example near me (curves on I-235 in Wichita) that gives an idea of how this distinction can play out in practice.  Speed limit was 55 MPH during NMSL; speed limit rose to 65 MPH after NMSL repeal; title-sheet design speed (1959) was probably 60 MPH; inferred design speed (late 1950's geometric design parameters compared to current standards) is below 55 MPH.  If an agency were bent on resisting a speed limit increase on this stretch, the logical play would be to quote the low-ball value (original geometric design parameters compared to current standards) rather than the title sheet design speed.

[Alps]

No surprise that everyone's going 70-75 around Chicago. NJ Turnpike and GS Parkway should be 80, by those metrics.

[Revive 755]

I believe one of the Chicago papers had the Tri-State going to 70 north of Golf Road.

EDIT:  Or at least north of Deerfield Road.  Chicago Tribune, "Vote 70-Mile Speed Limit On Toll Road," 8/27/1964.

EDIT 2:From "O.K. New Speeds on Tollways"  Chicago Tribune, 6/25/1966

* Tri-State:  70 north of Dempster Street (US 14), 65 south of Dempster Street

* I-90/Northwest Tollway:  70 west of Barrington Road, 65 to east of Barrington to the end of the tollway

* now I-88:  65 from I-290 to IL 83, 70 west of IL 83 to the then end of construction somewhere near Aurora

There are also a couple articles that have the Borman (apparently called the Tri-State Expressway in the past) once posted at 70, but having issues with fatal crashes.

[bahnburner]

@Revive 755 - Just wow! I'm reading the details and they had so much common sense back then!! Thanks a lot for your help man. Means a lot. Honestly wasn't expecting people to actually find something that stated 70 mph before 1974.

Now we (in the group) just have to get our hands on one of these issues to quote from, preferably the 1966 one.

[mrsman]

The California approach to highway speed limits is very reasonable.  With the repeal of NMSL:

55 mph was signed on some of the oldest freeways (Arroyo Seco-very twisty; Hollywood, Santa Ana, San Bernardino, Harbor freeways in the Downtown LA area with lots of twisty ramps)

All other urban freeways were signed at 65 mph

Rural freeways were signed at 70 mph.

Now for the Chicago area, I would say that the 55 zone should be along the Kennedy below Ohio Street, the Dan Ryan north of 35th, the Ike east of Western, the Stevenson east of Western, and the entire Lake Shore Drive.  The rest of the expressways in the city and close-in suburbs should be 65.  The rural parts of the expressways (exits every 3 miles or less frequent) should be 70 mph.

I wouldn't impose CA's 55 mph truck limit, though.

[agentsteel53]

The California approach to highway speed limits is very reasonable.

given that the enforcement is 80, I think it's time to post 80.

[Brandon]

The California approach to highway speed limits is very reasonable.  With the repeal of NMSL:

I prefer Michigan's approach: 70 unless some engineering consideration mandates a lower limit.  And yes, that even includes urban freeways.

[Joe The Dragon]

The California approach to highway speed limits is very reasonable.  With the repeal of NMSL:

55 mph was signed on some of the oldest freeways (Arroyo Seco-very twisty; Hollywood, Santa Ana, San Bernardino, Harbor freeways in the Downtown LA area with lots of twisty ramps)

All other urban freeways were signed at 65 mph

Rural freeways were signed at 70 mph.

Now for the Chicago area, I would say that the 55 zone should be along the Kennedy below Ohio Street, the Dan Ryan north of 35th, the Ike east of Western, the Stevenson east of Western, and the entire Lake Shore Drive.  The rest of the expressways in the city and close-in suburbs should be 65.  The rural parts of the expressways (exits every 3 miles or less frequent) should be 70 mph.

I wouldn't impose CA's 55 mph truck limit, though.

and all of the tri state tollway can be 70

[ChiMilNet]

I believe one of the Chicago papers had the Tri-State going to 70 north of Golf Road.

EDIT:  Or at least north of Deerfield Road.  Chicago Tribune, "Vote 70-Mile Speed Limit On Toll Road," 8/27/1964.

EDIT 2:From "O.K. New Speeds on Tollways"  Chicago Tribune, 6/25/1966

* Tri-State:  70 north of Dempster Street (US 14), 65 south of Dempster Street

* I-90/Northwest Tollway:  70 west of Barrington Road, 65 to east of Barrington to the end of the tollway

* now I-88:  65 from I-290 to IL 83, 70 west of IL 83 to the then end of construction somewhere near Aurora

There are also a couple articles that have the Borman (apparently called the Tri-State Expressway in the past) once posted at 70, but having issues with fatal crashes.

Generally, these speeds would likely make the most sense today. If anything, the increase in speed limits would help alleviate the speed differential there are with some of the slower drivers IMO.