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Bridge collapse in Wash. is wake-up call

Started by cpzilliacus, May 26, 2013, 02:55:35 PM

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cpzilliacus

AP via WTOP Radio, Washington, D.C.: NTSB: Bridge collapse in Wash. is wake-up call

QuoteSEATTLE (AP) -- The chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board said Saturday the bridge collapse in Washington state is a wake-up call for the nation.

Quote"This is a really significant event and we need to learn from it, not just in Washington but around the country," Debbie Hersman said after taking a boat ride on the Skagit River below the dramatic scene where a truck bumped against the steel framework, collapsing the bridge and sending two vehicles and three people falling into the chilly water.

QuoteInvestigators need to find out what happened in Washington and if it could be repeated at similar bridges around the country, Hersman said.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.


txstateends

Hmmmm, and I thought the I-35W bridge collapse in Minneapolis was supposed to be a 'wake-up call'......
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agentsteel53

NTSB report can be summarized as: "dude, don't drive into the side of a bridge."
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Molandfreak

Quote from: txstateends on May 26, 2013, 06:44:46 PM
Hmmmm, and I thought the I-35W bridge collapse in Minneapolis was supposed to be a 'wake-up call'......
Exactly ;-)

This is going to get highway departments all riled up to replace or repair structurally-inefficient bridges for like a year. Then they are going to forget all about this. That's always how it works.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PM
AASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 26, 2013, 07:50:10 PM
NTSB report can be summarized as: "dude, don't drive into the side of a bridge."

Agreed.  This is not, in and of itself, an indicator that all bridges on the  Interstate and National Highway System networks are ready to fail

The bridge had (and has) functional deficiencies (the structural steel was too close to the bridge deck), but I presume the low overhear clearance was posted in advance of the bridge.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Kacie Jane

Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 27, 2013, 12:28:10 AMbut I presume the low overhear clearance was posted in advance of the bridge.

Not that I can recall.

Brandon

Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 27, 2013, 12:28:10 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 26, 2013, 07:50:10 PM
NTSB report can be summarized as: "dude, don't drive into the side of a bridge."

Agreed.  This is not, in and of itself, an indicator that all bridges on the  Interstate and National Highway System networks are ready to fail

The bridge had (and has) functional deficiencies (the structural steel was too close to the bridge deck), but I presume the low overhear clearance was posted in advance of the bridge.

Apparently not posted in advance or at the bridge according to WSDOT (as noted in the thread in the Northwest section).
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vdeane

Quote from: Molandfreak on May 26, 2013, 08:15:52 PM
Quote from: txstateends on May 26, 2013, 06:44:46 PM
Hmmmm, and I thought the I-35W bridge collapse in Minneapolis was supposed to be a 'wake-up call'......
Exactly ;-)

This is going to get highway departments all riled up to replace or repair structurally-inefficient bridges for like a year. Then they are going to forget all about this. That's always how it works.
NY has already been busy replacing many bridges, starting last year before this.  Does that mean that Governor Cuomo is secretly a Time Lord from Gallifrey?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

route56

Quote from: vdeane on May 27, 2013, 11:47:54 AM
NY has already been busy replacing many bridges, starting last year before this.  Does that mean that Governor Cuomo is secretly a Time Lord from Gallifrey?

Don't think so.... he looks nothing like the Time Lords I know :)
Peace to you, and... don't drive like my brother.

R.P.K.

txstateends

New graphic at Huffington Post's website about state percentages of structurally-deficient bridges and a few notable bridge collapses in the last few years:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/24/bridge-collapses-structurally-deficient-_n_3333649.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular
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kkt

Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 27, 2013, 12:28:10 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 26, 2013, 07:50:10 PM
NTSB report can be summarized as: "dude, don't drive into the side of a bridge."

Agreed.  This is not, in and of itself, an indicator that all bridges on the  Interstate and National Highway System networks are ready to fail

The bridge had (and has) functional deficiencies (the structural steel was too close to the bridge deck), but I presume the low overhear clearance was posted in advance of the bridge.

I don't think the clearance was posted for the bridge.  Clearance was high enough that signage wasn't required.  The speed limit goes down to 60 when approaching the bridge southbound, but that's probably as much because it enters the Mt. Vernon city limits as because of the bridge.


jeffandnicole

Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 26, 2013, 02:55:35 PM
AP via WTOP Radio, Washington, D.C.: NTSB: Bridge collapse in Wash. is wake-up call

QuoteSEATTLE (AP) -- The chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board said Saturday the bridge collapse in Washington state is a wake-up call for the nation.

Quote"This is a really significant event and we need to learn from it, not just in Washington but around the country," Debbie Hersman said after taking a boat ride on the Skagit River below the dramatic scene where a truck bumped against the steel framework, collapsing the bridge and sending two vehicles and three people falling into the chilly water.

QuoteInvestigators need to find out what happened in Washington and if it could be repeated at similar bridges around the country, Hersman said.

It sounds like the question is - Can a truck taller than 14'6" crash into a bridge that is 14'6" tall?

I hope a multi-million dollar investigation takes place to determine if this can happen.

kphoger

Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 26, 2013, 02:55:35 PM

QuoteInvestigators need to find out what happened in Washington and if it could be repeated at similar bridges around the country, Hersman said.

To me, it sounds like Hersman wants to find out how to make even more bridges collapse...    :hmmm:
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
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US71

Quote from: Molandfreak on May 26, 2013, 08:15:52 PM

This is going to get highway departments all riled up to replace or repair structurally-inefficient bridges for like a year. Then they are going to forget all about this. That's always how it works.

MoDOT replaced over 800 bridges in a 3 1/2 year span, though many more are probably in need.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

hbelkins

Love the way the mainstream media has spun this into a "bridges are going to fall unless we raise taxes to fix them."

The wake-up call needs to be to truckers to make sure their loads will fit under standard bridges.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

NE2

#15
So we need to regulate businesses instead of raising taxes. I wonder which one's easier to get past the Repubs.

Never mind - to a Repub, everything they don't like is a tax. Force a trucker to split a load? Tax. Force a trucker to use less fuel? Tax. Bengoatse? Tax.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

US71

Quote from: NE2 on May 28, 2013, 10:50:21 PM
So we need to regulate businesses instead of raising taxes. I wonder which one's easier to get past the Repubs.

Never mind - to a Repub, everything they don't like is a tax. Force a trucker to split a load? Tax. Force a trucker to use less fuel? Tax. Bengoatse? Tax.

Republicans generally don't like taxes or regulations.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

ET21

All I can say is: Here we go again....
The local weatherman, trust me I can be 99.9% right!
"Show where you're going, without forgetting where you're from"

Clinched:
IL: I-88, I-180, I-190, I-290, I-294, I-355, IL-390
IN: I-80, I-94
SD: I-190
WI: I-90, I-94
MI: I-94, I-196
MN: I-90

Duke87

Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2013, 10:42:52 PM
bridges are going to fall unless we shift spending from other places it isn't needed to fix them

There. Statement fixed. >_>
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

hbelkins

Quote from: Duke87 on May 29, 2013, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2013, 10:42:52 PM
bridges are going to fall unless we shift spending from other places it isn't needed to fix them

There. Statement fixed. >_>

Except spending, or the lack thereof, didn't have a damn thing to do with the collapse of that bridge. An overheight truck did.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Duke87

Quote from: hbelkins on May 29, 2013, 09:40:17 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on May 29, 2013, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2013, 10:42:52 PM
bridges are going to fall unless we shift spending from other places it isn't needed to fix them

There. Statement fixed. >_>

Except spending, or the lack thereof, didn't have a damn thing to do with the collapse of that bridge. An overheight truck did.

Not the point. True, this event was not caused by lack of maintenance. But, generally speaking, lack of maintenance is nonetheless a problem.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Duke87 on May 29, 2013, 10:21:35 PM
Not the point. True, this event was not caused by lack of maintenance. But, generally speaking, lack of maintenance is nonetheless a problem.

I  agree that lack of maintenance is a problem.

This past week, we had a big hole in the deck of the bridge that carries the Inner Loop of the Capital Beltway (I-95 southbound) over Good Luck Road (I don't know if anyone had the bad luck of getting hit on the head with a chunk of thee bridge) in Prince George's County, Maryland (Google satellite view here).

A temporary repair was made to get traffic moving, and then a more-permanent patch was installed, though the entire bridge (which dates to the opening of the Beltway in 1964) needs to have its deck replaced.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Alps

Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2013, 10:42:52 PM
Love the way the mainstream media has spun this into a "bridges are going to fall unless we raise taxes to fix them."
That is a good thing. We do need to fix more bridges. We're falling behind. So many of them were built in such a short span during the Depression.

cpzilliacus

Out of Control: Fixing Structurally Deficient Bridges Does not Require More Funding

QuoteThe Skagit River bridge collapse in Washington State has focused attention on the state of America's bridges. But as I stated on NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams bridges are in substantially better shape than 5 years ago. And more funding by itself will not improve the nation's bridges.

QuoteThe 2013 report, from advocacy group Transportation for America, paints an overly negative picture of bridges to justify additional transportation spending. First, bridge conditions are improving. In 2008 there were more than 71,000 deficient bridges; in 2012 there were only slightly over 66,000 deficient bridges. Five thousand fewer structurally deficient bridges in only five years is a major accomplishment! More importantly, the number of structurally deficient bridges has decreased substantially over the last 20 years from almost 120,000, 21 % of all bridges in 1992, to slightly more than 66,000, or 11% of all bridges, today.

QuoteNext, there is little evidence that states that spend more money on transportation have bridges in better condition. Take the examples of Georgia and Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania has the highest number of structurally deficient bridges in the country: 5,543 out of 6,043 or approximately 25% of all bridges. But Pennsylvania also has one of the highest gas taxes in the country–51 cents per gallon. So why doesn't Pennsylvania have better bridges? The state's transportation organizations have prioritized rural highway expansion over bridge maintenance and repair. Higher administrative costs reduce the amount of funds used for infrastructure. And union wages leave less revenue for highways. Georgia, on the other hand, has one of the lowest gas taxes in the country; its per capita transportation spending is 49th of the 50 states. Yet only 6% of Georgia's bridges are structurally deficient. Why? Georgia has prioritized bridge maintenance and repair while Pennsylvania has not. Weather and age of infrastructure are also factors but clearly GA is spending its existing revenue much more efficiently than Pennsylvania.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.



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