Wisconsin notes

[invincor]

Just fyi, this week's new episode of "Control City Freak" on YouTube is all about WIS 29.

[The Ghostbuster]

Before the expansion to four lanes, STH 29 had some pretty grisly accidents. It was nicknamed "Bloody 29": https://www.wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys20-29.html#STH-029. The expansion was badly needed, although I doubt it will ever be expanded to four lanes west of Elk Mound, or east of Green Bay. There will probably be further upgrades in the long-term future, such as replacing intersections with interchanges, grade-separations and cul-du-sacs. I doubt it will ever become an Interstate, though.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Just fyi, this week's new episode of "Control City Freak" on YouTube is all about WIS 29.

What's there to discuss? The control cities are exactly what they should be on that route, as it relates to the 4-lane section which will likely be 95% of the content. I suppose you could swap Spring Valley for River Falls where it goes west from WIS 25 in Menomonie, but 2-lane rural roads are more of a crapshoot in terms of what's sensible.

[JREwing78]

There will probably be further upgrades in the long-term future, such as replacing intersections with interchanges, grade-separations and cul-du-sacs. I doubt it will ever become an Interstate, though.

I'll file a Hwy 29 Interstate under "Never say never". Traffic loads are low enough that WisDOT can probably maintain significant sections as expressway for the next 50+ years without much of a safety problem. If WisDOT ever reaches the point where it's converted the entire highway to Interstate-compatible freeway, however, I see no reason not to designate it I-96. Yes, it would be another intrastate Interstate designated I-96 - and it would be longer than the one in Michigan.

Based on traffic counts, however, I foresee first US-10 between Stevens Point and Appleton getting an 3-digit Interstate designation (I-441, perhaps?). This is assuming, of course, that the local support for such a designation is there. US-10 west of I-39 and east of Hwy 441 is a relatively minor route, so I see no reason to reserve a 2di Interstate designation for this section of US-10/Hwy 441 as it's only 72 miles, but it's a logical 3di Interstate routing. This could be possible within the next 20-30 years.

I also foresee US-151 getting the Interstate banner before Hwy 29, again based on traffic counts. It's also a regionally important roadway, with connections to important cities in Iowa. I expect this is more of a 50-60 year timeline; while US-151/Hwy 23 will likely be all-freeway between Sheboygan and Dodgeville in 20-30 years, the section west of Dodgeville is low traffic and unlikely to go full freeway. It would seem unlikely that anyone would push for Interstate status until most of the route is all-freeway (ala US-41).

The only other remotely feasible roadway for Interstate status would be US-12 between the Dells and I-39/90 in Madison, but there's still freaking stoplights on it, and even a 2-lane section. Not to mention, WisDOT's not going to force the Beltline to be fully Interstate-compatible. Maybe opinions will change in 50 years, but even if it's made all-freeway I'm not seeing it.

Beyond the above routes, any other Interstate routing is purely in Fictional territory. One could draw a line on a map connecting Superior, Eau Claire, La Crosse, and Dubuque to St. Louis via US-53, US-61, and US-67, but that's fictional as hell (and made largely redundant by the Avenue of the Saints corridor). Nobody is building an Interstate north of Hwy 29 in our lifetime. WisDOT hasn't felt compelled to designate any other corridor for 4-laning that would make any sense even as a line on a map.

[mgk920]

I can someday see WI 29 becoming a full interstate, but not with the '96' number, existing WI 96 is too close, runs east-west and it could confuse users. I can also see it becoming an eastward extension of US 212.  BTW, my sense is that WisDOT is taking the same attitude WRT WI 29 between I-41 and I-94 that they took with what is now I-41, eliminate the intersections as as conditions warrant and finances allow.

Mike

[Big John]

I can someday see WI 29 becoming a full interstate, but not with the '96' number, existing WI 96 is too close, runs east-west and it could confuse users.

At least not like Georgia where GA Rte 85 runs parallel and close to I-85 southwest of Atlanta.

[peterj920]

I can someday see WI 29 becoming a full interstate, but not with the '96' number, existing WI 96 is too close, runs east-west and it could confuse users. I can also see it becoming an eastward extension of US 212.  BTW, my sense is that WisDOT is taking the same attitude WRT WI 29 between I-41 and I-94 that they took with what is now I-41, eliminate the intersections as as conditions warrant and finances allow.

Mike

What would be the point of Wis 29 being an eastward extension of US 212? There's no reason to renumber Wis 29 and will stay that way for years to come. It's already a free flowing route with no stops between I-94 and Green Bay. Upgrading to full freeway wouldn't improve the flow of traffic much at all. Busier intersections will continue to be upgraded to interchanges but many of the side roads in rural areas don't handle much cross traffic to impact the flow of the mainline traffic.

[SEWIGuy]

I can someday see WI 29 becoming a full interstate, but not with the '96' number, existing WI 96 is too close, runs east-west and it could confuse users. I can also see it becoming an eastward extension of US 212.  BTW, my sense is that WisDOT is taking the same attitude WRT WI 29 between I-41 and I-94 that they took with what is now I-41, eliminate the intersections as as conditions warrant and finances allow.

Mike

What would be the point of Wis 29 being an eastward extension of US 212? There's no reason to renumber Wis 29 and will stay that way for years to come. It's already a free flowing route with no stops between I-94 and Green Bay. Upgrading to full freeway wouldn't improve the flow of traffic much at all. Busier intersections will continue to be upgraded to interchanges but many of the side roads in rural areas don't handle much cross traffic to impact the flow of the mainline traffic.

And the traffic on US-41 was significantly higher than WI-29 is now.  Even the least travelled portions of I-41 have 30,000 vpd. Portions of WI-29 have only 10-12,000.  WIDOT will add exits as needed, but I can't imagine that some of the more rural sections are ever going to need to be full freeway. So I can't see WI-29 becoming an interstate anytime soon.  If I were to actually pick the next highway to become a full, interstate compatible freeway, it would be US-151 between Madison and Fond du Lac.

But anyway, I think WIDOT should be focusing its major project resources on increasing the capacity of the current interstates in place. Not creating new ones.

[invincor]

But anyway, I think WIDOT should be focusing its major project resources on increasing the capacity of the current interstates in place. Not creating new ones.

Agreed.  The number 1 priority imo should be adding lanes to I-94.  It should be at least three lanes each direction everywhere in the state except maybe the part between Eau Claire and the Dells.

[triplemultiplex]

The number 1 priority imo should be adding lanes to I-94.  It should be at least three lanes each direction everywhere in the state except maybe the part between Eau Claire and the Dells Tomah.

Fixed that for ya.

[The Ghostbuster]

Interstate 94 should also be three lanes in each direction from Madison to Milwaukee. Maybe it will eventually need to be at least three lanes in each direction throughout the entire state.

[SEWIGuy]

Well the top priority right now is I-41 expansion between Appleton and De Pere. But my guess is that three laning I-94 will gradually go east from Madison and west from Milwaukee.

[triplemultiplex]

Well the top priority right now is I-41 expansion between Appleton and De Pere. But my guess is that three laning I-94 will gradually go east from Madison and west from Milwaukee.

Next priority for 3x3 is Portage to The Dells.

[GeekJedi]

I just hit the rebuilt section un US-12 yesterday between Whitewater and Fort. They did a nice job. The only major change is that they put a curve at the end of Hackbarth so that it meets US-12 at a "tee" instead of at an angle. They also put in a very welcome left turn lane there going from WB US-12 onto Hackbarth.

[peterj920]

Well the top priority right now is I-41 expansion between Appleton and De Pere. But my guess is that three laning I-94 will gradually go east from Madison and west from Milwaukee.

It doesn't seem like WISDOT has any studies or interest in rebuilding I-94 between Madison and Waukesha but it should. The roadbed is shot and resurfacings don't last long anymore. Many of the interchanges are outdated especially at County C in Delafield. Here's the rankings right now in rebuilds based on construction:

1. I-41 between Appleton and De Pere: project approved
2. I-39/90/94 Wisconsin River Bridges wide enough for 8 lanes: project approved
3. I-94 between the Zoo and Marquette Interchanges: Ongoing study and is actively being pursued.
4. I-90 between Wis Dells and The Beltline: Currently being studied for expansion

[SEWIGuy]

Well the top priority right now is I-41 expansion between Appleton and De Pere. But my guess is that three laning I-94 will gradually go east from Madison and west from Milwaukee.

It doesn't seem like WISDOT has any studies or interest in rebuilding I-94 between Madison and Waukesha but it should. The roadbed is shot and resurfacings don't last long anymore. Many of the interchanges are outdated especially at County C in Delafield. Here's the rankings right now in rebuilds based on construction:

1. I-41 between Appleton and De Pere: project approved
2. I-39/90/94 Wisconsin River Bridges wide enough for 8 lanes: project approved
3. I-94 between the Zoo and Marquette Interchanges: Ongoing study and is actively being pursued.
4. I-90 between Wis Dells and The Beltline: Currently being studied for expansion

\


Resources are limited so I get why the above are the current priorities.  A much as I agree that I-94 between Madison and Waukesha needs to be rebuilt and expanded, there just isn't enough to go around right now. And the current capacity is by and large fine for the time being.

[mgk920]

Well the top priority right now is I-41 expansion between Appleton and De Pere. But my guess is that three laning I-94 will gradually go east from Madison and west from Milwaukee.

/


It doesn't seem like WISDOT has any studies or interest in rebuilding I-94 between Madison and Waukesha but it should. The roadbed is shot and resurfacings don't last long anymore. Many of the interchanges are outdated especially at County C in Delafield. Here's the rankings right now in rebuilds based on construction:

1. I-41 between Appleton and De Pere: project approved
2. I-39/90/94 Wisconsin River Bridges wide enough for 8 lanes: project approved
3. I-94 between the Zoo and Marquette Interchanges: Ongoing study and is actively being pursued.
4. I-90 between Wis Dells and The Beltline: Currently being studied for expansion

Resources are limited so I get why the above are the current priorities.  A much as I agree that I-94 between Madison and Waukesha needs to be rebuilt and expanded, there just isn't enough to go around right now. And the current capacity is by and large fine for the time being.

Over the past couple of decades, WisDOT has also rebuilt some of the bridges along the way to be more 'drop in' degradable to six lanes (ie, at WI 26).

Mike

[peterj920]

Well the top priority right now is I-41 expansion between Appleton and De Pere. But my guess is that three laning I-94 will gradually go east from Madison and west from Milwaukee.

It doesn't seem like WISDOT has any studies or interest in rebuilding I-94 between Madison and Waukesha but it should. The roadbed is shot and resurfacings don't last long anymore. Many of the interchanges are outdated especially at County C in Delafield. Here's the rankings right now in rebuilds based on construction:

1. I-41 between Appleton and De Pere: project approved
2. I-39/90/94 Wisconsin River Bridges wide enough for 8 lanes: project approved
3. I-94 between the Zoo and Marquette Interchanges: Ongoing study and is actively being pursued.
4. I-90 between Wis Dells and The Beltline: Currently being studied for expansion

\


Resources are limited so I get why the above are the current priorities.  A much as I agree that I-94 between Madison and Waukesha needs to be rebuilt and expanded, there just isn't enough to go around right now. And the current capacity is by and large fine for the time being.

Pretty soon the pavement is going to have to be replaced. Resurfacings aren't lasting very long. There are bridge and interchange replacements that are happening. Wis 73 interchange is next up. A lot of the pavement on I-94 is being replaced because of the same problem in Northwest Wisconsin. Pretty soon the same thing is going to happen between Madison and Waukesha.

[dvferyance]

Well the top priority right now is I-41 expansion between Appleton and De Pere. But my guess is that three laning I-94 will gradually go east from Madison and west from Milwaukee.

It doesn't seem like WISDOT has any studies or interest in rebuilding I-94 between Madison and Waukesha but it should. The roadbed is shot and resurfacings don't last long anymore. Many of the interchanges are outdated especially at County C in Delafield. Here's the rankings right now in rebuilds based on construction:

1. I-41 between Appleton and De Pere: project approved
2. I-39/90/94 Wisconsin River Bridges wide enough for 8 lanes: project approved
3. I-94 between the Zoo and Marquette Interchanges: Ongoing study and is actively being pursued.
4. I-90 between Wis Dells and The Beltline: Currently being studied for expansion

\


Resources are limited so I get why the above are the current priorities.  A much as I agree that I-94 between Madison and Waukesha needs to be rebuilt and expanded, there just isn't enough to go around right now. And the current capacity is by and large fine for the time being.

They should have done it between Waukesha and Oconomowoc and forgot about the Waukesha bypass.

[hobsini2]

But anyway, I think WIDOT should be focusing its major project resources on increasing the capacity of the current interstates in place. Not creating new ones.

Agreed.  The number 1 priority imo should be adding lanes to I-94.  It should be at least three lanes each direction everywhere in the state except maybe the part between Eau Claire and the Dells.

90/94 should be 6 lanes from Portage to Tomah. You could leave the rest of 94 as 4 lanes north of there until Wis 29 and then have it 6 lanes into Minnesota from there.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I've noticed on the recent reconstruction work on 94 around Osseo they left space on the Buffalo River bridges for 6 lanes, so maybe Wisconsin is thinking about the jugular on this some distant future day...

[SEWIGuy]

I think that's pretty much SOP when WIDOT replaces an interstate bridge now.

[JREwing78]

I've noticed on the recent reconstruction work on 94 around Osseo they left space on the Buffalo River bridges for 6 lanes, so maybe Wisconsin is thinking about the jugular on this some distant future day...

I think that's pretty much SOP when WIDOT replaces an interstate bridge now.

They may not necessarily  make the deck extra wide, but they'll make the piers wide enough that they can easily widen the deck later.

Interestingly, building extra-wide bridges doesn't always pay off. I-39/90 between Janesville and Madison had several bridges that were redecked (I assume in the late '80s or early '90s) for 6 lanes wide that ended up being replaced outright when the widening finally happened in the late 2010s.

[GeekJedi]

Well the top priority right now is I-41 expansion between Appleton and De Pere. But my guess is that three laning I-94 will gradually go east from Madison and west from Milwaukee.

It doesn't seem like WISDOT has any studies or interest in rebuilding I-94 between Madison and Waukesha but it should. The roadbed is shot and resurfacings don't last long anymore. Many of the interchanges are outdated especially at County C in Delafield. Here's the rankings right now in rebuilds based on construction:

1. I-41 between Appleton and De Pere: project approved
2. I-39/90/94 Wisconsin River Bridges wide enough for 8 lanes: project approved
3. I-94 between the Zoo and Marquette Interchanges: Ongoing study and is actively being pursued.
4. I-90 between Wis Dells and The Beltline: Currently being studied for expansion

\


Resources are limited so I get why the above are the current priorities.  A much as I agree that I-94 between Madison and Waukesha needs to be rebuilt and expanded, there just isn't enough to go around right now. And the current capacity is by and large fine for the time being.

They should have done it between Waukesha and Oconomowoc and forgot about the Waukesha bypass.

The Waukesha Bypass was needed. Traffic counts now support that. If you look at the remnants of Merrill Hills Rd., you're surprised that the accident count wasn't much higher than it was. There's no getting around the fact that Merrill Hills was a major route, and it allowed Waukesha to remove US-18 from town. It was money well spent (and split between the state, county, and city, so that money wouldn't have covered much of anything on 94).

[The Ghostbuster]

My mother and I use the West Waukesha Bypass when visiting family in the area.