DST (2018)

[hotdogPi]

Current conditions, Eastern time zone with DST:
Friday 11/2: Sunrise at 8:16 (way too late), Sunset at 6:40

If Indiana switched to Central time zone with DST:
Friday 11/2: Sunrise at 7:16, Sunset at 7:40

This is the obvious solution. Switch to Central, get 2 hours of extra daylight.

[kphoger]

I think the problem with year-round DST is that many states won't shift their time zones accordingly

↓ ↓ You already pointed out that they can't shift their time zones.  Request it they can, but change it they cannot[/yoda].

in the bizarre system we have, the state government decides whether or not to observe DST but the Federal government decides your time zone

Current conditions, Eastern time zone with DST:
Friday 11/2: Sunrise at 8:16 (way too late), Sunset at 6:40

If Indiana switched to Central time zone with DST:
Friday 11/2: Sunrise at 7:16, Sunset at 7:40

This is the obvious solution. Switch to Central, get 2 hours of extra daylight.

LOL

[english si]

Permanent DST is better than what we have now, but I'm just pointing out that permanent DST is really the same as not having DST at all and just changing time zones.

The EU proposal, for instance, makes it clear that any member state that chooses not to change the clocks a final time, in 360 days time, but stay on summer time permanently, has in fact moved time zones.

[tradephoric]

Five children were hit by a car at a Tampa bus stop shortly after 8AM today.  Sunrise in Tampa this morning was at 7:40 AM so i imagine this incident won't be cited by the anti-DST crowd here.  Each year the Kansas State Department of Education School Bus Safety Unit releases a report that documents fatalities involving school children in or around the loading or unloading areas of a school bus.  Last year there were 8 documented fatalities.  Of the 8 fatalities, 4 of them occurred on the way home from school and 7 of them occurred in daylight. 

https://www.ksde.org/Portals/0/School%20Bus/Surveys/2016-17LoadingSurvey1-18-18.pdf

[kphoger]

i imagine this incident won't be cited by the anti-DST crowd here.

I hope it won't.

I'm one of the anti-DST crowd, but I'm also in favor of reason.

[english si]

I'm one of the anti-DST crowd, but I'm also in favor of reason.

The two go hand in hand, surely...

[jeffandnicole]

Five children were hit by a car at a Tampa bus stop shortly after 8AM today.  Sunrise in Tampa this morning was at 7:40 AM so i imagine this incident won't be cited by the anti-DST crowd here.  Each year the Kansas State Department of Education School Bus Safety Unit releases a report that documents fatalities involving school children in or around the loading or unloading areas of a school bus.  Last year there were 8 documented fatalities.  Of the 8 fatalities, 4 of them occurred on the way home from school and 7 of them occurred in daylight. 

https://www.ksde.org/Portals/0/School%20Bus/Surveys/2016-17LoadingSurvey1-18-18.pdf

Except in the middle of summer when kids normally aren't in school, dawn and kids going to school are always going to be around the same time.  If anyone tries combining the two, they do so knowing full well there's nothing that can be done about it.  If you argue for later opening times, then that opens up later school days, and kids coming home closer to dusk.

[webny99]

Unlike most (or at least I assume), I actually observe the time change, in both spring and fall, on Saturday instead of Sunday. In the spring, it helps to theoretically "lose" your hour during the day so as not to lose any sleep, whereas in the fall, I tend to stick to the old time as long as possible, thereby getting a full extra hour of sleep.

Still trying to get used to the fact that it's just past 3:00 (or might as well be) and feels like it's getting dark already. Admittedly, mornings for the next weeks will be a major improvement over the past few weeks.

[jakeroot]

In the spring, it helps to theoretically "lose" your hour during the day so as not to lose any sleep

Not sure I could pull that off. I get tired when I get tired, so I'd still feel like I was waking up early the next day.

[jon daly]

i imagine this incident won't be cited by the anti-DST crowd here.

I hope it won't.

I'm one of the anti-DST crowd, but I'm also in favor of reason.

One of my favorite curmudgeons, Bill Kauffmann, opposes DST.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB111223751154393974

He gets points for opposing the metric system, but he dislikes the Interstate Highway System too much for my taste. (I suppose that makes him the anti-Fritz.)

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/bill-kauffman/aint-my-america/

[hbelkins]

It's now 7:12 p.m. Eastern time and it's dark outside.

Tomorrow night at this time, it will be 6:12 Eastern time and it will be dark outside. On a typical work day, I'll just be getting home.

Have I said lately how much I hate "falling back" and the resulting darkness at such an early hour in the evenings?

[kphoger]

I realized this morning that my youngest son will likely wake my wife and me up before dawn no matter what.  Our other two sons can sometimes manage to sleep through their alarm clock, but the youngest is a different breed.

[vdeane]

Unlike most (or at least I assume), I actually observe the time change, in both spring and fall, on Saturday instead of Sunday. In the spring, it helps to theoretically "lose" your hour during the day so as not to lose any sleep, whereas in the fall, I tend to stick to the old time as long as possible, thereby getting a full extra hour of sleep.

Still trying to get used to the fact that it's just past 3:00 (or might as well be) and feels like it's getting dark already. Admittedly, mornings for the next weeks will be a major improvement over the past few weeks.

Same.

In the spring, it helps to theoretically "lose" your hour during the day so as not to lose any sleep

Not sure I could pull that off. I get tired when I get tired, so I'd still feel like I was waking up early the next day.

I'm almost never tired when I go to bed and almost always tired when I wake up, time change or not.  The rare occasions when I am tired when I go to bed are when I've pushed myself way too hard and am completely exhausted.

[jp the roadgeek]

It's now 7:12 p.m. Eastern time and it's dark outside.

Tomorrow night at this time, it will be 6:12 Eastern time and it will be dark outside. On a typical work day, I'll just be getting home.

Have I said lately how much I hate "falling back" and the resulting darkness at such an early hour in the evenings?

You think that's bad.  Today in CT, the sun set at 5:42 ET, which means it was dark by about 6:15 or so.  Tomorrow, the sun sets at 4:41 PM, which means it will be dark by about 5:15.  People that drove home in daylight Friday will drive home in darkness on Monday.  By December, those figures will be 20 minutes earlier.  This is why the northeast corridor needs to go to AST.  Solar noon tomorrow is at 11:35 AM instead of 12:35 as it was today.   

[GaryV]

If we get rid of DST, how will we know when to change the batteries in smoke alarms?

One of my alarms started chirping about 4:20 am Friday.  Had to get up and change the battery.  By the time I was done, there wasn't enough time to go back to sleep.

Then another one starts chirping about 4:40 am Saturday!  I thought it was the same one, that we had an expired battery in the drawer.  But no, another one had to be changed.

Why did they expire just 1 and 2 days before I was going to change the batteries anyway?

I enjoyed my "extra hour" of sleep last night.

[SSOWorld]

If we get rid of DST, how will we know when to change the batteries in smoke alarms?

One of my alarms started chirping about 4:20 am Friday.  Had to get up and change the battery.  By the time I was done, there wasn't enough time to go back to sleep.

Then another one starts chirping about 4:40 am Saturday!  I thought it was the same one, that we had an expired battery in the drawer.  But no, another one had to be changed.

Why did they expire just 1 and 2 days before I was going to change the batteries anyway?

I enjoyed my "extra hour" of sleep last night.

I have serious reservations regarding this campaign.  These things will lose battery life at random times regardless.  besides - it's another example of SkyNet watching over us.

[kalvado]

If we get rid of DST, how will we know when to change the batteries in smoke alarms?

One of my alarms started chirping about 4:20 am Friday.  Had to get up and change the battery.  By the time I was done, there wasn't enough time to go back to sleep.

Then another one starts chirping about 4:40 am Saturday!  I thought it was the same one, that we had an expired battery in the drawer.  But no, another one had to be changed.

Why did they expire just 1 and 2 days before I was going to change the batteries anyway?

I enjoyed my "extra hour" of sleep last night.

Latest versions of code have some different requirements for fire alarms. 10 year batteries and grid primary power with battery backup seem to become the norm

[1995hoo]

I suppose this is a slight threadjack, but I was at Home Depot last weekend and I noted their display of smoke detectors said you should replace the devices every ten years. I'd never heard that before–I just replace the 9-volt batteries in our three detectors as needed–but maybe kalvado's comment provides the answer. Are the newer devices that much better than the older ones that it's worth looking into replacing them? Ours are at least 17 years old because that's how long I've lived in this house, and I assume they're the original ones the builder installed when the house was built in 1993. They still work fine, based on the noise one of them made when I filled the kitchen with smoke while cooking on the stove a few weeks ago.

[hotdogPi]

I suppose this is a slight threadjack, but I was at Home Depot last weekend and I noted their display of smoke detectors said you should replace the devices every ten years. I'd never heard that before–I just replace the 9-volt batteries in our three detectors as needed–but maybe kalvado's comment provides the answer. Are the newer devices that much better than the older ones that it's worth looking into replacing them? Ours are at least 17 years old because that's how long I've lived in this house, and I assume they're the original ones the builder installed when the house was built in 1993. They still work fine, based on the noise one of them made when I filled the kitchen with smoke while cooking on the stove a few weeks ago.

Our refrigerator is 30 years old, despite the shorter lifespan of new refrigerators. About 15—20 years ago, products stopped being built to last; older products that are built to last probably don't need to be replaced.

[kalvado]

I suppose this is a slight threadjack, but I was at Home Depot last weekend and I noted their display of smoke detectors said you should replace the devices every ten years. I'd never heard that before–I just replace the 9-volt batteries in our three detectors as needed–but maybe kalvado's comment provides the answer. Are the newer devices that much better than the older ones that it's worth looking into replacing them? Ours are at least 17 years old because that's how long I've lived in this house, and I assume they're the original ones the builder installed when the house was built in 1993. They still work fine, based on the noise one of them made when I filled the kitchen with smoke while cooking on the stove a few weeks ago.

Those 10-year individual devices are maintenance free, the battery is not replaceable and supposed to last for 10 years, then a new device must be installed. There are actually 10-year batteries for old style detectors as well. 10 years are actually subject to activation frequency and such...

To make things more interesting, newer code has requirements for interconnected alarms in each area. For our house that means going from single alarm (we passed inspection OK) to 8-10, depending on how you count (at least 4 of those, 3 BR + corridor, must be within 10 feet radius). Fortunately, we're grandfathered in - this is major renovation/new construction only.
They have to be interconnected, so if one detects something - all of them sound. Since each spot has to be wired, going to grid power with battery backup is a no-brainer. 

[MNHighwayMan]

I suppose this is a slight threadjack, but I was at Home Depot last weekend and I noted their display of smoke detectors said you should replace the devices every ten years. I'd never heard that before–I just replace the 9-volt batteries in our three detectors as needed–but maybe kalvado's comment provides the answer. Are the newer devices that much better than the older ones that it's worth looking into replacing them? Ours are at least 17 years old because that's how long I've lived in this house, and I assume they're the original ones the builder installed when the house was built in 1993. They still work fine, based on the noise one of them made when I filled the kitchen with smoke while cooking on the stove a few weeks ago.

Traditional smoke detectors that work on ionizing radiation have to be replaced every ten years due to the decay of the americium in the detector.

This is apparently wrong, just ignore me.

[kalvado]

I suppose this is a slight threadjack, but I was at Home Depot last weekend and I noted their display of smoke detectors said you should replace the devices every ten years. I'd never heard that before–I just replace the 9-volt batteries in our three detectors as needed–but maybe kalvado's comment provides the answer. Are the newer devices that much better than the older ones that it's worth looking into replacing them? Ours are at least 17 years old because that's how long I've lived in this house, and I assume they're the original ones the builder installed when the house was built in 1993. They still work fine, based on the noise one of them made when I filled the kitchen with smoke while cooking on the stove a few weeks ago.

Traditional smoke detectors that work on ionizing radiation have to be replaced every ten years due to the decay of the americium in the detector.

negative. Am-241 has a half-life of more than 400 years, so source should be fine for 100 years or so without any questions.

[hbelkins]

It's now 7:12 p.m. Eastern time and it's dark outside.

Tomorrow night at this time, it will be 6:12 Eastern time and it will be dark outside. On a typical work day, I'll just be getting home.

Have I said lately how much I hate "falling back" and the resulting darkness at such an early hour in the evenings?

You think that's bad.  Today in CT, the sun set at 5:42 ET, which means it was dark by about 6:15 or so.  Tomorrow, the sun sets at 4:41 PM, which means it will be dark by about 5:15.  People that drove home in daylight Friday will drive home in darkness on Monday.  By December, those figures will be 20 minutes earlier.  This is why the northeast corridor needs to go to AST.  Solar noon tomorrow is at 11:35 AM instead of 12:35 as it was today.   

Oh, I know all about that. I attended the Springfield, Mass., meet in November several years ago. My base of operations was Norwalk. It was getting dark by the time the meet ended, so most of the trip back to Norwalk ended up being in the dark. Which was a shame, really, because I used CT 8 and the Merritt (CT 15) to get from I-84 to Norwalk, and the scenery looked interesting, but I couldn't see any of it.

That trip was memorable because it was the first time I ever ate at Five Guys.

[jon daly]

I suppose this is a slight threadjack, but I was at Home Depot last weekend and I noted their display of smoke detectors said you should replace the devices every ten years. I'd never heard that before–I just replace the 9-volt batteries in our three detectors as needed–but maybe kalvado's comment provides the answer. Are the newer devices that much better than the older ones that it's worth looking into replacing them? Ours are at least 17 years old because that's how long I've lived in this house, and I assume they're the original ones the builder installed when the house was built in 1993. They still work fine, based on the noise one of them made when I filled the kitchen with smoke while cooking on the stove a few weeks ago.

Our refrigerator is 30 years old, despite the shorter lifespan of new refrigerators. About 15—20 years ago, products stopped being built to last; older products that are built to last probably don't need to be replaced.

I never scraped off enough money at once to replace my tv, so I still have one from 1999 that works fine.

[kalvado]

I suppose this is a slight threadjack, but I was at Home Depot last weekend and I noted their display of smoke detectors said you should replace the devices every ten years. I'd never heard that before–I just replace the 9-volt batteries in our three detectors as needed–but maybe kalvado's comment provides the answer. Are the newer devices that much better than the older ones that it's worth looking into replacing them? Ours are at least 17 years old because that's how long I've lived in this house, and I assume they're the original ones the builder installed when the house was built in 1993. They still work fine, based on the noise one of them made when I filled the kitchen with smoke while cooking on the stove a few weeks ago.

Our refrigerator is 30 years old, despite the shorter lifespan of new refrigerators. About 15—20 years ago, products stopped being built to last; older products that are built to last probably don't need to be replaced.

I never scraped off enough money at once to replace my tv, so I still have one from 1999 that works fine.

Depending on how much you view your TV, an old CRT unit burns more energy, I would hazard to guess 1-2 cents worth of power per day, or $5/year.
Add $25-50 disposal fee many places now charge for CRT units, and you may be saving less than you think...