AARoads Forum

I was thinking about Atlanta, and decided to check it out better on Google Earth. The city's urbanized area is just massive. It generally sprawls 30 miles from the city center in all directions, with some areas being as far as 50 miles from downtown (Gainesville, Canton).

I was wondering, since the suburbanization of Atlanta didn't really stop at the perimeter (I-285), isn't there a need for a second, much larger beltway? I measured it on Google Earth, and came out with this. Remember, some areas would still be outside this second beltway, especially in the north.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi39.tinypic.com%2F2yoep0l.jpg&hash=06f0e82b80ae2a77fa5a0e30b81d47a19fee7c0f)

There have been plenty of proposals to build another larger beltway for Atlanta over the years, but so far all have been shot down for the usual reasons:
-Everyone complaining about costs
-Treehuggers complaining about trees having to be cut down
-NIMBYs complaining about the noise and pollution threat

I'm not sure how/where traffic flows on I-285, but IMHO building at least some 'short cuts' instead of a whole beltway might be an easier solution for now. Granted, it's been a while since I last drove on I-285, but I remember from most experiences that I-285 in the region around the airport is just a huge clusterfvck that desperately needs some support, say from a partial beltway from I-85 eastwards to I-20 for starters.

Quote-Treehuggers complaining about trees having to be cut down

Doesn't matter much for those trees if they're cut down for suburbs or for freeways... However, classical objections ofcourse. And in meantime, Atlanta really doesn't stop growing. I wonder where it ends, at the current growth pace, it would be a matter of time before whole northern Georgia is one big urban area.

That would be a good idea, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.


Be well,

Bryant

Well be prepared for a barrage of sprawl along the southwest corridor of Interstate 85. GADOT is presently eight-laning a 29-mile section with ultimate plans to have the entire freeway eight-lanes between Interstate 185 and Interstate 285! Presently a good portion of that corridor is rural, but with an eight-lane freeway now in town, that land will become that much more lucrative for future development. Its sad to see that politicians really have no clue as to planning in that area.  :ded:

^^ Okay, I saw the eight-laning between SR 74 and north of SR 54/100. Didn't know they were going down pass the weigh station.


Be well,

Bryant

Also something I noticed about the Downtown Connector in Atlanta:

Traffic volumes!

2007: 288,000
2006: 283,000
2005: 323,000
2004: 349,000
2003: 314,000

How come the traffic volumes dropped significantly in an urban area that gained hundreds of thousands of inhabitants in the same time?

Maybe due to sprawl??  As the sprawl moves outward more and more people don't commute into the city as often, they just stay in their sprawled out areas.

Quote from: Chris on January 28, 2009, 05:31:26 PMHow come the traffic volumes dropped significantly in an urban area that gained hundreds of thousands of inhabitants in the same time?

Improved connections and service on MARTA  :-D .

Quote from: DAL764 on January 29, 2009, 11:38:18 AM

Quote from: Chris on January 28, 2009, 05:31:26 PMHow come the traffic volumes dropped significantly in an urban area that gained hundreds of thousands of inhabitants in the same time?

Improved connections and service on MARTA  :-D .

Ha! You're joking, you gotta be. :sombrero:


Be well,

Bryant

Quote from: Bryant5493 on February 01, 2009, 12:10:31 PM

Quote from: DAL764 on January 29, 2009, 11:38:18 AMImproved connections and service on MARTA  :-D .

Ha! You're joking, you gotta be. :sombrero:

No, I'm serious, they now even provide on-board entertainment  :-P :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NZtGz_7WI0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NZtGz_7WI0)

^^ I saw that. That was the funniest thing I've seen, although it's sad that young lady has a problem.

--

Oh, and my previous comment was meant to be tongue-in-cheek: I borrowed the line from "Oogie Boogie Song," from "The Nightmare Before Christmas."


Be well,

Bryant

Don't worry.  When gas is back to $4 or higher, they'll come back to the cities.   :eyebrow:

I wouldn't be too sure about that... Gas jumped from $ 6 to $ 10 in the Netherlands and people didn't drive less. Only the economic crisis (which hit us mostly after the summer peaks) caused some decrease in miles driven. Mobility is a basic need, people cut back on other things.

Quote from: aaroads on January 28, 2009, 12:08:37 PM
Well be prepared for a barrage of sprawl along the southwest corridor of Interstate 85. GADOT is presently eight-laning a 29-mile section with ultimate plans to have the entire freeway eight-lanes between Interstate 185 and Interstate 285!

:-o :-o :-o :-o

The biggest plan right now for an outer  highway is between 75 and 85 in the north to follow  GA route 20 from Buford to Cartersville...still a long way off and probably will not be a full fledged freeway.

The I-285 loop can be brutal during rush hour. Especially, as I've said on another thread, in the southwest corner (by the airport) during rush hour.

A larger beltway is needed. Namely, one that does make it too far away. A lot of people, if given the option of 80 miles or 120 miles (regardless of traffic congestion) will take the 80 mile option.

That's the big problem with loops.

But, it's better to build the bigger loop before it's needed. Once you need it, the land is more expensive, the route becomes more confined, and the overall hassle of building it becomes worse.

Sykotyk

Quote from: Sykotyk on February 10, 2009, 06:41:49 PM
The I-285 loop can be brutal during rush hour. Especially, as I've said on another thread, in the southwest corner (by the airport) during rush hour.

A larger beltway is needed. Namely, one that does make it too far away. A lot of people, if given the option of 80 miles or 120 miles (regardless of traffic congestion) will take the 80 mile option.

That's the big problem with loops.

But, it's better to build the bigger loop before it's needed. Once you need it, the land is more expensive, the route becomes more confined, and the overall hassle of building it becomes worse.

Sykotyk

No way.  A new loop will just mean more sprawl.  Then the new loop will just be filled.  How about people just not live in ubiquitous suburbs in the first place, and live closer to Atlanta?  If MARTA was expanded, things would be better.  Tough tit for the people who choose to live far. 

But wouldn't sprawl continue anyway? They didn't really build new freeways in Los Angeles, but population still grows very fast. Suburbanization continues, so you can better do it in an organized way. Also, Atlanta seems to do quite a good job spreading out jobcenters so not everyone has to go to downtown anymore.

Quote from: Chris on February 11, 2009, 05:18:25 AM
But wouldn't sprawl continue anyway?

Most definitely. Urban sprawl continues regardless of how many, if any, interstates, train lines or bus lines run into the neighborhood. Urban sprawl is not limited to being caused by new roadways. Sure, they DO play a part, but I would venture the guess that 3/4 of all urban sprawl is traffic route-independent. And given the 'compentence' at MARTA, I'd say that a new 100-mile beltway of Atlanta has a better chance of happening than any newsworthy MARTA expansion.

Government does not tell people where to live.

At least I would hope not. And as for your comment, an outer beltway is more for thru traffic to avoid the metro area, rather than to help those exurbians drive their SUVs back and forth to work in a timely fashion.

Sykotyk

New freeways add to the symptom of sprawl. Arterials are the new sprawl road of choice though, look at Albuquerque, no new freeways yet the sprawl continues further out in Rio Rancho. Expansion of existing freeways is the other way that forwards further sprawl, which is why the eight-laning of Interstate 85 so far south will be an issue to opening up current existing rural lands.

^^ Hopefully, when the freeway widening between Fairburn and Troup County is finished, the 70 mph speed limit will be restored.


Be well,

Bryant

Well, an 80 mile loop would put it on the southside of Atlanta, just near Macon. I believe the only way a loop will get built now is if its an toll road...

One thing about the Atlanta Metro Area is that no matter what you to try to expand, the people are going to gripe and moan and not want it in their area.  MARTA expansion the excuse from the people would be that it brings more crime in to the area. Building new freeways, whether a new loop or just a short length connector would have the treehuggers up in arms.  So no matter what you do, you're damned if you do and damned if you dont

^^ And those of us who live in the Metro are paying for this bull-headedness now.


Be well,

Bryant

What are the exact plans about this "23 lane widening" of the I-75 in north Atlanta metro?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC8p_cRSvpU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC8p_cRSvpU)

With the transportation bill failing -- the bill failed because the Georgia House and Senate couldn't agree whether to have a state or regional vote on transportation issues -- MARTA (Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority) may have to shut down one to two days a week. That means no bus or rail services. This is still being discussed, seriously discussed. This would be quite unfortunate for those persons who don't have reliable transportation to/from work or to/from schools, etc.

For more info, click the link below.

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/MARTA_Faces_Cutbacks_Future_Uncertain_040509


Be well,

Bryant

I made this graph using GDOT's statistics of traffic volumes between 2003 and 2007.

This graph shows the downtown connector in Atlanta, and the traffic volume change between 2003 and 2007. Note that my Open Office software shows decimal points and commas the opposite way Americans would use it.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi40.tinypic.com%2F24dqz2h.png&hash=42c58fcca8737e054b31349bea3e07b373eea3e0)

Traffic in Atlanta is decreasing?  How is that possible?

Or are the 2003 and 2007 numbers reversed?

QuoteTraffic in Atlanta is decreasing?  How is that possible?

Or are the 2003 and 2007 numbers reversed?

No, the numbers are correct. I have the 2003 - 2007 traffic data downloaded from GDOT, and traffic volumes started to decrease after 2004 bigtime in Atlanta, especially on the Downtown Connector, but also on other locations.

QuoteNo, the numbers are correct. I have the 2003 - 2007 traffic data downloaded from GDOT, and traffic volumes started to decrease after 2004 bigtime in Atlanta, especially on the Downtown Connector, but also on other locations.

OK.  Does anyone know why there is less traffic on these routes in Atlanta?

^^ I've not really noticed a decrease in traffic -- and I live here. I'm not sure what GDOT was basing those numbers off of. Traffic is still hellacious, especially on I-75/85.


Be well,

Bryant

^^ Well was there any major construction projects in 07 that could've affected the 75/85 numbers?

^^ I can't recall anything out of the norm.


Be well,

Bryant

Downtown connector @ 8.20 am "rushhour".

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.tinypic.com%2F11b4qvo.jpg&hash=525d6ce56dd7d22f2c8b22df39d10058fb128aed)

I was just checking I-85 north of downtown Atlanta, and it seems to be congested often in the southbound direction.

If I look at the lane configuration:

Between I-75 and GA-400 : 10 lanes
Between GA-400 and Druid Hills Rd: 14 lanes

So in the southbound direction, there are 7 lanes from I-85 and 2 from GA-400 (7+2=9) merging onto only 5 lanes further downstream. No wonder this area gets congested. Are there plans to widen I-85 too there?

Quote^^ I can't recall anything out of the norm.

It doesn't seem any different to me since I went with my family to Atlanta back in 2004(even though we mainly tarveled I-75/85 in the afternoon/evening).

Chris said:
So in the southbound direction, there are 7 lanes from I-85 and 2 from GA-400 (7+2=9) merging onto only 5 lanes further downstream. No wonder this area gets congested. Are there plans to widen I-85 too there?

Not to my knowledge.

There was an open house about building connector ramps from GA 400 to I-85 North and I-85 South to GA 400 North, though. When this is done -- hopefully, soon -- traffic on Sidney Marcus Boulevard, Buford Highway (S.R. 13) and Cheshire Bridge/Lenox Roads will be cut down a bit. Currently, there's no direct access to GA 400 North from I-85 South or I-85 North from GA 400 South.


Be well,

Bryant

Quote from: jackson1300 on April 06, 2009, 09:50:46 AM
One thing about the Atlanta Metro Area is that no matter what you to try to expand, the people are going to gripe and moan and not want it in their area.  MARTA expansion the excuse from the people would be that it brings more crime in to the area. Building new freeways, whether a new loop or just a short length connector would have the treehuggers up in arms.  So no matter what you do, you're damned if you do and damned if you dont

That's the one thing I heard about MARTA expansion being voted down by the voters in Gwinnett. Depending on who you talk to, there were racial undertones about the vote. Which is sad because at one point, Gwinnett was the largest jurisdiction (over 500K) in the U.S. that didn't have mass transit service. Look at how much less traffic could've been on I-85 going towards Atlanta in the morning.

Nah, I wouldn't overestimate transit impact on traffic too much, I've heard that before too often with no results. Most transit riders will be those who have no alternative or already using buses. Atlanta is not Manhattan. The number of people using MARTA is not interesting from a freeway perspective, but only the number of people who actually stop driving to work and take MARTA instead. I doubt if it would be more than 10% of the MARTA daily ridership.

i think the reason for the revised traffic counts is a new system of traffic meters was installed recently(maybe during the re-pave project) from what i understand.

What Does everyone think of the HOV/Toll lanes on I-85...?

http://www.ajc.com/news/toll-lane-on-i-607643.html

I foresee another Fiasco in the making by the Georgia D.O.T.

^^

One word: Boo!


Be well,

Bryant

Vids profiling the I-85 widening in south Metro Atlanta.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tCNyOm8yzU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUsHJFP6Xws&feature=watch_response_rev


Be well,

Bryant

There's to be a roundabout at the intersection of North Decatur Road, Oxford Road and Dowman Drive (Emory University entrance), which is just northeast of the Atlanta city limits.

Emory Village Intersection Now (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Emory+University&sll=33.785693,-84.322987&sspn=0.004066,0.007457&ie=UTF8&radius=0.26&split=1&rq=1&ev=p&hq=Emory+University&hnear=&ll=33.788412,-84.325583&spn=0,0.007457&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.788509,-84.325529&panoid=BsoiMxeCR2dDuC6egVtUXA&cbp=12,203.04,,0,7.87)

Emory Village Roundabout Info. (http://www.emory.edu/EMORY_REPORT/stories/2010/08/23/roundabout.html)


Be well,

Bryant

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=33.787423,-84.391243&spn=0,0.021136&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=33.787326,-84.391235&panoid=J8X4EtIO-ZgAnOAKusrUqA&cbp=12,176.66,,0,3.54

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=33.778398,-84.391179&spn=0,0.021136&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=33.778297,-84.391166&panoid=B5pETstQwSNmO62lpzpTaw&cbp=12,181.44,,0,-0.66

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=33.769391,-84.390535&spn=0,0.021136&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=33.769304,-84.390539&panoid=ARMnDTA_HE0pWMhzALvDDw&cbp=12,176.61,,0,5.46

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=33.761489,-84.381309&spn=0,0.021136&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=33.76166,-84.381492&panoid=yCKGJEFiO9mDMaXj1dZ6-g&cbp=12,145.27,,0,2.9

Does anybody know if the US-19 reroute in Atlanta (PDF download) (http://ballot.transportation.org/FileDownload.aspx?attachmentType=Item&ID=196) has been done yet?  It was approved in the Fall '10 AASHTO meeting.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 16, 2011, 03:30:04 AM
Does anybody know if the US-19 reroute in Atlanta (PDF download) (http://ballot.transportation.org/FileDownload.aspx?attachmentType=Item&ID=196) has been done yet?  It was approved in the Fall '10 AASHTO meeting.

Not yet, but could be any time. I live right off Piedmont RD and it's still GA 237.

Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on February 16, 2011, 07:57:25 AM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 16, 2011, 03:30:04 AM
Does anybody know if the US-19 reroute in Atlanta (PDF download) (http://ballot.transportation.org/FileDownload.aspx?attachmentType=Item&ID=196) has been done yet?  It was approved in the Fall '10 AASHTO meeting.

Not yet, but could be any time. I live right off Piedmont RD and it's still GA 237.

Thanks for the update.  Please let me know when you see it done. ;)  I want to update GA US-19 for the CHM project (http://cmap.m-plex.com/hb/hwymap.php?mt=g&r=ga.us019&sys=usaus&rg=usa.ga&gr=p&off=0), but will not do it till GDOT has posted the change in the field. ;)

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 16, 2011, 08:03:10 AM

Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on February 16, 2011, 07:57:25 AM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 16, 2011, 03:30:04 AM
Does anybody know if the US-19 reroute in Atlanta (PDF download) (http://ballot.transportation.org/FileDownload.aspx?attachmentType=Item&ID=196) has been done yet?  It was approved in the Fall '10 AASHTO meeting.

Not yet, but could be any time. I live right off Piedmont RD and it's still GA 237.

Thanks for the update.  Please let me know when you see it done. ;)  I want to update GA US-19 for the CHM project (http://cmap.m-plex.com/hb/hwymap.php?mt=g&r=ga.us019&sys=usaus&rg=usa.ga&gr=p&off=0), but will not do it till GDOT has posted the change in the field. ;)

I'll keep my eye on it, but I'll only be here until late March. Moving to Boston. I really haven't seen any kind of prep to indicate a change is coming, but I know it is.

Quote from: Stephane Dumas on February 12, 2011, 03:03:14 PM
Nice clip, I like the Supertramp song :D

Thanks. ;-)

Quote from: Eth on February 12, 2011, 05:31:28 PM
I have family near there and remembered seeing the Old Alabama Rd portion under construction a while back.  Nice to see what the finished product looks like.

Cool. GDOT did a great job with the road.

---

With respect to U.S. 19:

I've not been up that way in a minute, but I doubt that its signed along its new routing yet. South Fulton Parkway -- portions of which are the S.R. 14 Connector, S.R. 14 Alternate, U.S. 29 Alternate, and S.R. 70 -- wasn't signed initially until I brought it to GDOT's attention.


Be well,

Bryant

Quote from: Bryant5493 on February 16, 2011, 01:40:45 PM

Quote from: Stephane Dumas on February 12, 2011, 03:03:14 PM
Nice clip, I like the Supertramp song :D

Thanks. ;-)

Quote from: Eth on February 12, 2011, 05:31:28 PM
I have family near there and remembered seeing the Old Alabama Rd portion under construction a while back.  Nice to see what the finished product looks like.

Cool. GDOT did a great job with the road.

---

With respect to U.S. 19:

I've not been up that way in a minute, but I doubt that its signed along its new routing yet. South Fulton Parkway -- portions of which are the S.R. 14 Connector, S.R. 14 Alternate, U.S. 29 Alternate, and S.R. 70 -- wasn't signed initially until I brought it to GDOT's attention.


Be well,

Bryant

I wonder if GA 237 will be multiplexed with US 19 or truncated entirely on Piedmont Rd.??

Fixed quote. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4000.0) - rmf67

This being Georgia, there will certainly continue to be a state route designation of some sort on Piedmont.

I notice the AASHTO document says they're converting Peachtree Road into a "local roadway", which makes it sound like the SR 9 designation would probably also be removed from it; it would thus make sense for it to be moved onto the same routing as US 19.  If this is the case, I would expect that SR 13 would then be truncated to the Piedmont Road exit and SR 237 would be eliminated in favor of SR 9.  SR 141 would most likely also be truncated to Piedmont.

Has Anyone Noticed That The Are Installing New Sign Bridges On I-85 NE of Atlanta in Preparation for the New HOT/HOV Lanes?

Quote from: Tomahawkin on February 20, 2011, 07:47:43 PM
Has Anyone Noticed That The Are Installing New Sign Bridges On I-85 NE of Atlanta in Preparation for the New HOT/HOV Lanes?

If you look at the sign specs on GDOT's website, you'll see that I-85 in Gwinnett is going to have tons of bridges spanning across, especially since Georgia is scared to erect anymore cantilevered signs. (Taking engineering back to the stone ages). Instead of beefing up the cantilevered truss members, they just give up altogether with those ridiculous elevated shoulders signs not even visible to the leftmost lanes.

10 counties and 68 cities in metro Atlanta will vote on a one cent sales tax increase to raise approximately $8 billion for transportation projects.  However, there is a $24 billion wish list that needs to be whittled down for presentation to the regional voters.  As far as major road projects, I-285/GA 400 and western I-20/I-285 interchanges are included.  Expansion of MARTA mass transit system will probably be included as well:

http://www.ajc.com/news/transportation-proposals-ready-region-892160.html

"The Atlanta Regional Commission expects to consolidate all the requests into a single regional list by April 15.

After the roundtable comes up with a draft list in August, the region will hold meetings, perhaps one in each county, to gather public reaction.

People already can share their opinions by sending an e-mail to info@atlantaregionalroundtable.com, and each meeting of the roundtable will begin with 10 minutes for public comments."

The proposed $1 billion project will include reversible toll lanes alongside I-75 andI-575:

http://www.ajc.com/news/public-private-toll-project-939801.html

"After years of false starts, the state Department of Transportation says it will soon open bidding on the largest transportation contract in state history – a $1 billion project to add 29 miles of reversible lanes alongside I-75 and I-575 in Cobb and Cherokee counties.

It is the state's maiden attempt to build public roads with private investment.

But it will come at a cost.

Drivers using these lanes will pay in tolls, and all Georgia drivers will pay in tax dollars. Some of the costs may remain secret, at least from the public, until after the final contract is signed.

The project between the Perimeter and Hickory Grove Road on I-75, and up to Sixes Road on I-575, will charge tolls that vary based on the level of congestion, though the DOT refused to divulge the rules for setting and raising the tolls.

In addition, a major issue in such deals elsewhere has been a clause – for the benefit of the private companies involved – that prevents the state from making other road improvements in the area that would ease traffic congestion and compete with the toll lanes.

For now, the exact provisions for Georgia are secret.

Electronic tolling – using just passes mounted on vehicles – is not unique: There is a smaller toll-lane project being built on I-85 in Gwinnett County, and others elsewhere in the country.

But the public-private approach on I-75/I-575 could pave the way for a network of privately financed toll projects throughout metro Atlanta ....

The state, though, is counting on drivers to pay hundreds of millions in toll fees over the next 50 years. Taxpayers will pitch in transportation money too, up to $450 million ....

The DOT has given up on ever having enough money to sufficiently widen metro Atlanta's interstates, because wider roads tend to just fill up again.

Instead, the state has planned a network of optional toll lanes. By keeping the toll high enough to keep out drivers who can't afford it, these lanes offer one thing available nowhere else: reliable free flow, even at rush hour.

The goal is for traffic in the lane to always be moving at least 45 mph ... "

Be well,

Bryant

Here's a link to an editorial in AJC making the point that the result of tomorrow's vote regarding renewal of a 1%  sales tax for educational purposes in Fulton and DeKalb counties may well determine the fate of next year's referendum on a 1% sales tax increase to support transportation projects in the area:
http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2011/11/02/t-splosts-fate-on-the-line-next-week-in-fulton-and-dekalb/

Here's a link to a list of the projects in metro Atlanta that would be supported by the 1% tax increase for transportation projects:
http://www.atlantaregionalroundtable.com/documents/final_report.pdf

Quote from: Grzrd on November 07, 2011, 12:21:49 PM
tomorrow's vote regarding renewal of a 1%  sales tax for educational purposes in Fulton and DeKalb counties may well determine the fate of next year's referendum on a 1% sales tax increase to support transportation projects in the area ... Here's a link to a list of the projects in metro Atlanta that would be supported by the 1% tax increase for transportation projects:
http://www.atlantaregionalroundtable.com/documents/final_report.pdf

The renewal of the 1% sales tax for educational purposes in Fulton and DeKalb counties passed, setting the stage for the 2012 vote for the 1% increase for transportation projects.
Many projects are listed in the final report, but here's a list of the projects involving improvements to area interstates that would be supported by the 1% tax increase for transportation projects:
Interchange improvements to I-285 N at GA 400 - $450 million
Interchange improvements to I-85 N at I-285 - $53 million
Interchange improvements to I-285 W at I-20 W - $149 million
New interchange for I-285 W at Greenbriar Parkway - $36.4 million
Interchange improvements to I-75 N at Windy Hill Rd. - $77 million
Interchange improvements to I-20 E at Panola Road - $21.2 million
Interchange improvements to I-85 S at SR 74 - $22.5 million
Interchange improvements to I-285 W at Cascade Rd. - $23.6 million
New interchange for I-85 N at Gravel Springs Rd. (Gwinnett) - $33.3 million
Interchange improvements to I-75 S at Bill Gardner Parkway - $19 million

Should be an interesting information campaign leading up to the vote.

Quote from: Bryant5493 on February 16, 2011, 01:40:45 PM
With respect to U.S. 19:

I've not been up that way in a minute, but I doubt that its signed along its new routing yet. South Fulton Parkway -- portions of which are the S.R. 14 Connector, S.R. 14 Alternate, U.S. 29 Alternate, and S.R. 70 -- wasn't signed initially until I brought it to GDOT's attention.


Be well,

Bryant

Curious, but have you been up there lately to see if US-19's reroute has been posted yet?

Looking at the PDF for the US 19 relocation in Atlanta...does this mean the old I-85 alignment will now be part of US 19?  That's pretty neat!

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 17, 2011, 10:09:35 PM
Curious, but have you been up there lately to see if US-19's reroute has been posted yet?

I drove northward on Peachtree this morning and it is still signed as US 19/GA 9.  I also drove on Piedmont from Piedmont/Peachtree intersection to old I-85 alignment/Buford Highway/GA 13 and Piedmont is still signed as GA 237.

Do they plan to move SR 9 or only US 19?

Quote from: Eth on February 16, 2011, 10:33:30 PM
This being Georgia, there will certainly continue to be a state route designation of some sort on Piedmont.
I notice the AASHTO document says they're converting Peachtree Road into a "local roadway", which makes it sound like the SR 9 designation would probably also be removed from it; it would thus make sense for it to be moved onto the same routing as US 19.  If this is the case, I would expect that SR 13 would then be truncated to the Piedmont Road exit and SR 237 would be eliminated in favor of SR 9.  SR 141 would most likely also be truncated to Piedmont.

Quote from: NE2 on December 18, 2011, 02:02:07 PM
Do they plan to move SR 9 or only US 19?

Eth's post quoted above speculating that the SR 9 designation would probably be moved with the US 19 designation is the only thing I've read about the issue one way or the other.

Quote from: Grzrd on December 18, 2011, 10:53:46 AM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 17, 2011, 10:09:35 PM
Curious, but have you been up there lately to see if US-19's reroute has been posted yet?

I drove northward on Peachtree this morning and it is still signed as US 19/GA 9.  I also drove on Piedmont from Piedmont/Peachtree intersection to old I-85 alignment/Buford Highway/GA 13 and Piedmont is still signed as GA 237.

Thanks for checking today for me.  Really appreciate it.  Just wish GDOT would get this done. lol.

Driving from Downtown to Midtown via Hank Aaron, Capitol, and Piedmont.


Be well,

Bryant

Quote from: Grzrd on December 18, 2011, 10:53:46 AM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 17, 2011, 10:09:35 PM
Curious, but have you been up there lately to see if US-19's reroute has been posted yet?

I drove northward on Peachtree this morning and it is still signed as US 19/GA 9.  I also drove on Piedmont from Piedmont/Peachtree intersection to old I-85 alignment/Buford Highway/GA 13 and Piedmont is still signed as GA 237.

Quote from: NE2 on December 18, 2011, 02:02:07 PM
Do they plan to move SR 9 or only US 19?

I emailed GDOT and asked them if a timetable exists for the change.  To make a long story short, they say the city of Atlanta is causing the delay.  GDOT's response:

"Thank you for contacting YOUR Georgia Department of Transportation.
AASHTO has approved the transfer of the US Route designation but it was in conjunction with the State Route changes. We are currently waiting on the city of Atlanta to sign a Notice of Intent that was executed by the Georgia DOT commissioner.
Again, we thank you for submitting your inquiry to the Georgia DOT. Please continue to contact us with your comments and questions."

I have emailed back and asked them what "was in conjunction with the State Route changes" means.  It took approximately three weeks for me to get this initial response, so I decided to go ahead and post the "Atlanta delay" info.

I will post again once I get a followup response... X-(

Quote from: Grzrd on January 10, 2012, 07:12:44 PM

Quote from: NE2 on December 18, 2011, 02:02:07 PM
Do they plan to move SR 9 or only US 19?

I emailed GDOT and asked them if a timetable exists for the change.  To make a long story short, they say the city of Atlanta is causing the delay ... AASHTO has approved the transfer of the US Route designation but it was in conjunction with the State Route changes. We are currently waiting on the city of Atlanta to sign a Notice of Intent that was executed by the Georgia DOT commissioner.

I received a followup response from GDOT today.  First, all state route changes are proposed until Atlanta signs off on them.  Related to US 19 change, GA 9 will move with US 19 and both designations will be in addition to the current GA 237 designation on Piedmont and GA 13 on the Buford Highway.  Not related to US 19, there will be a redesignation involving GA 141 as it crosses over GA 400 on Buckhead Loop, as well as a removal of the GA 141 designation from parts of Peachtree Road and Roswell Road. [EDIT - Oops. 141 removed from a part of Peachtree Road northeast of Roswell Road; 141 is not currently routed along Roswell Road]

Here is a map that GDOT emailed to me:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiEBoL.jpg&hash=c0e46bef6f38093952d47bd88a818ff6094c745d)

Quote from: Grzrd on January 11, 2012, 09:27:43 PM

Quote from: Grzrd on January 10, 2012, 07:12:44 PM

Quote from: NE2 on December 18, 2011, 02:02:07 PM
Do they plan to move SR 9 or only US 19?

I emailed GDOT and asked them if a timetable exists for the change.  To make a long story short, they say the city of Atlanta is causing the delay ... AASHTO has approved the transfer of the US Route designation but it was in conjunction with the State Route changes. We are currently waiting on the city of Atlanta to sign a Notice of Intent that was executed by the Georgia DOT commissioner.

I received a followup response from GDOT today.  First, all state route changes are proposed until Atlanta signs off on them.  Related to US 19 change, GA 9 will move with US 19 and both designations will be in addition to the current GA 237 designation on Piedmont and GA 13 on the Buford Highway.  Not related to US 19, there will be a redesignation involving GA 141 as it crosses over GA 400 on Buckhead Loop, as well as a removal of the GA 141 designation from parts of Peachtree Road and Roswell Road.

Here is a map that GDOT emailed to me:

<snip>

Interesting that they will keep GA-13 and GA-237 co-signed with the new reroute of US-19/GA-9.  I honestly thought that they would have eliminated both routes on the segments that US-19/GA-9 took over.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on January 11, 2012, 11:13:23 PM
Interesting that they will keep GA-13 and GA-237 co-signed with the new reroute of US-19/GA-9.  I honestly thought that they would have eliminated both routes on the segments that US-19/GA-9 took over.

Likewise.  Particularly 237, which I expected would be decommissioned entirely.

Quote from: Grzrd on January 11, 2012, 09:27:43 PM

Quote from: Grzrd on January 10, 2012, 07:12:44 PM
I emailed GDOT and asked them if a timetable exists for the change.  To make a long story short, they say the city of Atlanta is causing the delay ... AASHTO has approved the transfer of the US Route designation but it was in conjunction with the State Route changes. We are currently waiting on the city of Atlanta to sign a Notice of Intent that was executed by the Georgia DOT commissioner.

I received a followup response from GDOT today.  First, all state route changes are proposed until Atlanta signs off on them.  Related to US 19 change, GA 9 will move with US 19 and both designations will be in addition to the current GA 237 designation on Piedmont and GA 13 on the Buford Highway.  Not related to US 19, there will be a redesignation involving GA 141 as it crosses over GA 400 on Buckhead Loop, as well as a removal of the GA 141 designation from parts of Peachtree Road and Roswell Road. [EDIT - Oops. 141 removed from a part of Peachtree Road northeast of Roswell Road; 141 is not currently routed along Roswell Road]

I emailed GDOT back and asked why a change has been proposed.  GDOT's response:

Quote
The City of Atlanta requested that the Department take under consideration the removal of State Route 9/US 19(Peachtree Road) through North Atlanta and Midtown area in conjunction with the Street Car Project.
State Route 141 relocation and re-designation on a more northward section of Peachtree Rd was needed in order to modify the State Route System if the removal/transfer is going to take place.

As I understand it, the Atlanta Streetcar Project (http://www.atlantadowntown.com/_files/docs/atlanta_streetcar_presentation_december2011.pdf) is currently planned to be built well south of the proposed changes (map on page 6/12 of pdf).  Perhaps the longer term vision is to run the Streetcar farther north on Peachtree.  At any rate, there does not appear to be any immediate need to change the signage.

Quote from: Grzrd on March 07, 2012, 12:12:30 PM

Quote from: Grzrd on January 11, 2012, 09:27:43 PM

Quote from: Grzrd on January 10, 2012, 07:12:44 PM
I emailed GDOT and asked them if a timetable exists for the change.  To make a long story short, they say the city of Atlanta is causing the delay ... AASHTO has approved the transfer of the US Route designation but it was in conjunction with the State Route changes. We are currently waiting on the city of Atlanta to sign a Notice of Intent that was executed by the Georgia DOT commissioner.

I received a followup response from GDOT today.  First, all state route changes are proposed until Atlanta signs off on them.  Related to US 19 change, GA 9 will move with US 19 and both designations will be in addition to the current GA 237 designation on Piedmont and GA 13 on the Buford Highway.  Not related to US 19, there will be a redesignation involving GA 141 as it crosses over GA 400 on Buckhead Loop, as well as a removal of the GA 141 designation from parts of Peachtree Road and Roswell Road. [EDIT - Oops. 141 removed from a part of Peachtree Road northeast of Roswell Road; 141 is not currently routed along Roswell Road]

I emailed GDOT back and asked why a change has been proposed.  GDOT's response:

Quote
The City of Atlanta requested that the Department take under consideration the removal of State Route 9/US 19(Peachtree Road) through North Atlanta and Midtown area in conjunction with the Street Car Project.
State Route 141 relocation and re-designation on a more northward section of Peachtree Rd was needed in order to modify the State Route System if the removal/transfer is going to take place.

As I understand it, the Atlanta Streetcar Project (http://www.atlantadowntown.com/_files/docs/atlanta_streetcar_presentation_december2011.pdf) is currently planned to be built well south of the proposed changes (map on page 6/12 of pdf).  Perhaps the longer term vision is to run the Streetcar farther north on Peachtree.  At any rate, there does not appear to be any immediate need to change the signage.

The long-term for the Atlanta Streetcar Project is, indeed to run up Peachtree through Midtown and toward Buckhead, but I'm talking LONGterm, as they don't have a date for that phase. So I don't know what they (city officials) are thinking.

Quote from: mhking on March 10, 2012, 08:01:19 AM

Quote from: Grzrd on March 07, 2012, 12:12:30 PM

Quote from: Grzrd on January 11, 2012, 09:27:43 PM

Quote from: Grzrd on January 10, 2012, 07:12:44 PM
I emailed GDOT and asked them if a timetable exists for the change.  To make a long story short, they say the city of Atlanta is causing the delay ... AASHTO has approved the transfer of the US Route designation but it was in conjunction with the State Route changes. We are currently waiting on the city of Atlanta to sign a Notice of Intent that was executed by the Georgia DOT commissioner.

I received a followup response from GDOT today.  First, all state route changes are proposed until Atlanta signs off on them.  Related to US 19 change, GA 9 will move with US 19 and both designations will be in addition to the current GA 237 designation on Piedmont and GA 13 on the Buford Highway.  Not related to US 19, there will be a redesignation involving GA 141 as it crosses over GA 400 on Buckhead Loop, as well as a removal of the GA 141 designation from parts of Peachtree Road and Roswell Road. [EDIT - Oops. 141 removed from a part of Peachtree Road northeast of Roswell Road; 141 is not currently routed along Roswell Road]

I emailed GDOT back and asked why a change has been proposed.  GDOT's response:

Quote
The City of Atlanta requested that the Department take under consideration the removal of State Route 9/US 19(Peachtree Road) through North Atlanta and Midtown area in conjunction with the Street Car Project.
State Route 141 relocation and re-designation on a more northward section of Peachtree Rd was needed in order to modify the State Route System if the removal/transfer is going to take place.

As I understand it, the Atlanta Streetcar Project (http://www.atlantadowntown.com/_files/docs/atlanta_streetcar_presentation_december2011.pdf) is currently planned to be built well south of the proposed changes (map on page 6/12 of pdf).  Perhaps the longer term vision is to run the Streetcar farther north on Peachtree.  At any rate, there does not appear to be any immediate need to change the signage.

The long-term for the Atlanta Streetcar Project is, indeed to run up Peachtree through Midtown and toward Buckhead, but I'm talking LONGterm, as they don't have a date for that phase. So I don't know what they (city officials) are thinking.

they arent thinking at all,  the streetcar will be a nice(if likely impractical) complement to the existing infrastructure in getting around downtown/midtown. 

I think a much, much bigger loop should be built to COMPLETELY bypass Atlanta.

There was talk a few years back about an "outer" loop of Atlanta, but with urban sprawl as it is there, you'd almost be to the Alabama state line on the west side to make it work.

Well, think about I-275, that goes through Indiana, Kentucky, and Ohio.

I think the new loop should still be an x85 numbered one.  Also, it should go above Chattanooga, TN, below Griffin, GA (maybe Macon?), and out to the Athens/Gainesville area.

Quote from: Morriswa on April 26, 2012, 03:24:22 PM
Well, think about I-275, that goes through Indiana, Kentucky, and Ohio.

I think the new loop should still be an x85 numbered one.  Also, it should go above Chattanooga, TN, below Griffin, GA (maybe Macon?), and out to the Athens/Gainesville area.

ok, there is a need for an outer loop, but that loop is ridiculous, especially to go from Athens/Gainesville all the way above Chattanooga.

I suppose if there were a need for an outer loop, it could goto Calhoun at a maximum, but should be placed just south of Cartersville, down to Villa Rica/Dallas area, Griffin works on the south side, and out 20 miles east of 285 North(East side), then Gainesville/Dawsonville on the north end.

Cartersville is too close to I-285.  Shouldn't it go through Dawsonville and southeast of Conyers?

Isn't Conyers closer to the Beltway than Cartersville?

We're right on the line of Fictional highway territory when talking about a route for a 2nd Atlanta Bypass.  If you want to continue talking about and defining a route for one, it would be best done in the Fictional area (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?board=20.0). ;)

On Sunday, I noticed several covered signs near the Atlanta airport. This article (http://www.ajc.com/business/biggest-concerns-about-international-1437450.html) indicates that, starting Wednesday, international travelers will enter the airport from I-75, while domestic travelers will continue to enter the airport from I-85.  Approximately 100 signs will be uncovered from 10:00 pm Tuesday until 4:00 am Wednesday:

Quote
After spending $1.4 billion to build an international terminal, one of the biggest concerns Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport officials have is whether international travelers will be able to find such a large building.
That's what has Balram Bheodari nervous. After two years heading up the international terminal activation team to prepare for the facility's opening Wednesday, Bheodari is worried about the shrouded highway signs across metro Atlanta, waiting for their overnight unveiling to direct travelers.
That's because the 1.2-million-square-foot Maynard H. Jackson International Terminal is on the east side of the airport, which means its entrance for all passengers boarding international flights in Atlanta is off I-75 instead of I-85, which domestic travelers will continue to use to get to the main terminal. That could affect roughly 5,000 people who daily begin their trips to foreign lands in Atlanta and would depart from the international terminal.
The risk is that rushed travelers head the wrong way and end up at a terminal where they can't check in for their flights. That could sully what airport officials hope will be a triumphant opening of the shiny new building that was still undergoing its finishing touches Monday.
So the highly orchestrated big unveiling of the highway signs is key. The plan, in cooperation with the Georgia Department of Transportation, is for as many as 40 workers to toil from 10 p.m. to 4 a.m. to uncover the signs in 100 locations. They will work in "rolling roadblocks," closing lanes to allow trucks and booms to change the signs, Bheodari said.

(bold emphasis added by me)

Many of the signs will use an airplane icon instead of the word "airport":

Quote
The new signs in some cases use an airplane icon instead of the word airport -- a shift to an international symbol that airport officials say they've been trying to get Atlantans accustomed to for several months by using it on some existing signs.

There's no ground transportation between the two terminals? Stupid.

Quote from: NE2 on May 14, 2012, 11:43:19 PM
There's no ground transportation between the two terminals? Stupid.

There will be ground transportation between the two terminals (http://www.ajc.com/travel/atlanta-airport/the-new-international-terminal-1435281.html); it simply won't provide the quickest way to get to your flight:

Quote
Q: What if I go to the wrong terminal?
A: In some cases, you may not be able to check in for your flight or check your bag if you're at the wrong terminal. But don't worry, you can take a shuttle bus to get to the correct terminal. At the main terminal, the shuttle will be at the ground transportation center on the west end of the terminal. Getting from one terminal to the other will take 12 minutes. International travelers in particular may want to allow some extra time the first time they use the new terminal, just to be safe ....
Q: How can I get from the airport MARTA station [located in domestic terminal] to the international terminal?
A: A free shuttle bus will run between the airport MARTA station and the international terminal 24 hours a day.

However, if an international traveler has rented a car while in Atlanta, he or she will need to first go to the domestic terminal:

Quote
Q: How can visitors to Atlanta get to the rental car center?
A: A separate free shuttle bus will take travelers from the international terminal to the rental car center. The airport says it's a 15-minute ride and will operate 24 hours a day. When returning a rental car before an international flight, travelers should take I-85 toward the domestic terminal to go to the rental car center, where they can catch a shuttle to the international terminal.

Atlanta-bound international travelers will not be able to access the people-mover after clearing customs; I think THAT is stupid:

Quote
Q: Will the people-mover train go to Concourse F?
A: Yes, the train and the pedestrian walkway connect Concourse F with all other concourses. However, if you're an Atlanta-bound international passenger arriving at Hartsfield-Jackson and going through Customs, you'll exit into the international terminal arrivals area after clearing Customs. You won't be able to get through security to access the people-mover train to the main terminal, but you can take a shuttle to the main terminal.

I think the concept of having two different airport entrances is idiotic. The architects or whoever dreamed this up went for convenience and probably a few bucks saved, but the costs will far outstrip the benefits in short order.

The arrangement sounds far from ideal, but I suspect travellers will rub along.  Difficult terminal transfers are very much the norm at international airports in the 50 million PATM class.  Somewhat similar examples include Heathrow central bus station to Terminal 4 (local bus), or O'Hare international terminal to one of the domestic terminals (a people-mover is available landside only, and the security checkpoints at the domestic terminals tend to be clogged--a person arriving on an international flight with only two hours to clear passport control, Customs, and security generally arrives at the departure gate for the connecting flight just as it is about to close).  Personally I tend to be more concerned that no security checkpoints are operated downstream of the last opportunity to replenish water bottles before boarding the plane.

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 16, 2012, 12:34:09 AM
Personally I tend to be more concerned that no security checkpoints are operated downstream of the last opportunity to replenish water bottles before boarding the plane.

If there are any such cases, a lack of bathrooms would seem to be a much bigger problem than a lack of water.

Quote from: NE2 on May 16, 2012, 01:51:25 AM

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 16, 2012, 12:34:09 AMPersonally I tend to be more concerned that no security checkpoints are operated downstream of the last opportunity to replenish water bottles before boarding the plane.

If there are any such cases, a lack of bathrooms would seem to be a much bigger problem than a lack of water.

There are indeed such cases.  A number of airports (Kansas City International, Zürich Kloten, Amsterdam Schiphol, and others) have long operated their primary security checkpoints at the gate rather than in areas reasonably adjacent to the check-in desks.  The limit on liquids (which was initially a ban) was introduced in the summer of 2006 and I know from personal experience that Schiphol was still operating gate-based checkpoints in the autumn of 2007.  I would expect the operators of all airports that still operate such checkpoints to be transitioning away from them as fast as they can, but this will not be an overnight process for most of them, especially in cases involving new capital spending.

Also, a number of airports now operate secondary security inspections at the gate itself, typically involving a full-body patdown (no inspection of the crotch area in the UK since this is illegal), a full luggage search, and a scan with chemical sniffers if these are available.  I have undergone these only at Heathrow for US-bound flights, and I have never had water confiscated as part of them, but there have been reports of passengers being relieved of drinking water during similar inspections at east Asian airports like Singapore.

Generally, drinking water and bathrooms go together, so there is unlikely to be a last chance to replenish drinking water that is not also a last chance to visit the bathroom.  But in my experience, it is more critical to board the plane with an adequate supply of drinking water than with an empty bladder.  Planes have bathrooms, typically in the ratio of one bathroom per 30-40 passengers on a Boeing 777 in transatlantic revenue service, which is generally enough to accommodate multiple bathroom visits without long waits over an 8- to 12-hour flight.  But if you board the plane without your own water supply, the cabin crew becomes your sole source of drinking water, and they are very stingy with it.

I've only ever seen the gate (or in-concourse) checkpoints at foreign airports for US-bound flights.  This is due to the more stringent security requirements for US flights.

Here in America, our airports take care of all the necessary scanning and groping up front.


Back on-topic: Is there no way to access the new terminal from I-85?  I live south of the airport so it's a bit awkward for me to loop around to I-75.  I wonder how park-and-rides and airport shuttles will handle this.

Quote from: Grzrd on May 14, 2012, 10:55:37 PM
Many of the signs will use an airplane icon instead of the word "airport":

Quote
The new signs in some cases use an airplane icon instead of the word airport -- a shift to an international symbol that airport officials say they've been trying to get Atlantans accustomed to for several months by using it on some existing signs.

This USA Today blog (http://travel.usatoday.com/alliance/flights/boardingarea/post/2012/05/Points-Miles-38-Martinis---Atlanta-International-Airport-Opening-Day-8211-First-Sign/694542/1) has several photos of the new interstate signage that uses the airplane icon instead of the word "Airport".

Quote from: MrDisco99 on May 16, 2012, 01:24:51 PM
Is there no way to access the new terminal from I-85?  I live south of the airport so it's a bit awkward for me to loop around to I-75.

Quote from: Grzrd on May 16, 2012, 01:38:06 PM
This USA Today blog (http://travel.usatoday.com/alliance/flights/boardingarea/post/2012/05/Points-Miles-38-Martinis---Atlanta-International-Airport-Opening-Day-8211-First-Sign/694542/1) has several photos of the new interstate signage that uses the airplane icon instead of the word "Airport".

In the link I posted in the above quote, the bottom photo indicates that taking Loop Road from Exit 74 on I-85 South will provide you with an alternative way to get to the international terminal.  Traveling on I-85 North, I suspect that you may access Loop Road from Exit 72 (just a guess; I would need an independent field confirmation).

Quote from: MrDisco99 on May 16, 2012, 01:24:51 PMI've only ever seen the gate (or in-concourse) checkpoints at foreign airports for US-bound flights.  This is due to the more stringent security requirements for US flights.

Foreign airports do have gate checkpoints and not just for US-bound flights--see this account of a traveller's experience at Munich airport, where he had to drink an entire bottle of water before the gate checkpoint because he was not allowed to carry it on the plane (admittedly, this was during a security alert):

http://www.independenttraveler.com/travel-tips/travelers-ed/airport-security-abroad-not-the-standard-mumble-and-grumble

When I went through Schiphol in 2007, the primary inspection was at the gate (i.e., there was no security checkpoint before the gate) and my flight was bound for London Gatwick.

QuoteHere in America, our airports take care of all the necessary scanning and groping up front.

No.  Not at all airports.  Kansas City still has gate checkpoints with all restroom facilities upstream of them:

http://www.airportterminalmaps.com/MCI-terminal-map.html

One change I would like to see, but consider extremely improbable, is airside transfer for international arrivals connecting to domestic flights.  In other words, exiting Customs should not dump you into the landside, where you have to go through security a second time.

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 16, 2012, 02:52:30 PM
No.  Not at all airports.  Kansas City still has gate checkpoints with all restroom facilities upstream of them:

http://www.airportterminalmaps.com/MCI-terminal-map.html

One change I would like to see, but consider extremely improbable, is airside transfer for international arrivals connecting to domestic flights.  In other words, exiting Customs should not dump you into the landside, where you have to go through security a second time.

Ah, the old "drive up to the gate" terminals.  They were built back in the heady 60s and 70s before disrupting air travel became fashionable among terrorists.  JFK's famous TWA terminal was built like that, too, and the need for security made it instantly obsolete.  Not many terminals are like this anymore, but I guess they're still out there.  I've never been to MCI, so I didn't know about that one.

As for customs leaving you airside, that was actually a feature of ATL's previous international terminal.  The flip side of that, though, was the added hassle if ATL was your destination.  Once you got your bags at the international baggage claim and went through customs, you then had to drop them onto another conveyor where they went behind the wall again, then had to go through security to get airside and take the people mover to baggage claim at the opposite end of the airport and claim your bags again.  I'm guessing in the new terminal you now have the option of sending your bags behind the wall and going through security to go airside to catch your transfer (as before), or keeping your bags and going landside.

I don't think you can ever get rid of the security check from customs to airside.  You have to have your big bags with you at customs, so they have to make sure you don't bring that tube of toothpaste from your checked bag back airside.

Diverting Diamond Interchange debuted this Morning 15 years past due at Ashford Dunwoody and 285...We need some feedback about this there are at least 15 Interchanges in the Metro ATL Area that needed this 15 years ago. Georgia is soo Ass Backward when it comes to politics and urban planning

Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 04, 2012, 10:19:11 AM
Diverting Diamond Interchange debuted this Morning 15 years past due at Ashford Dunwoody and 285...We need some feedback about this there are at least 15 Interchanges in the Metro ATL Area that needed this 15 years ago. Georgia is soo Ass Backward when it comes to politics and urban planning

Here's the AJC article on it:

http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/new-i-285-interchange-1451656.html

Quote from: BamaZeus on April 26, 2012, 11:12:50 AM
There was talk a few years back about an "outer" loop of Atlanta, but with urban sprawl as it is there, you'd almost be to the Alabama state line on the west side to make it work.

I doubt if that will ever be built. Heck, I remember all the fuss about the northern arc when I was living in Gwinnett ten years ago (which likely helped Roy Barnes lose the governor's mansion). I remember seeing the preliminary route for the outer loop. It would've gone well west of Atlanta, maybe past Carrollton, IIRC.

Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 04, 2012, 10:19:11 AM
Diverting Diamond Interchange debuted this Morning 15 years past due at Ashford Dunwoody and 285...We need some feedback about this there are at least 15 Interchanges in the Metro ATL Area that needed this 15 years ago. Georgia is soo Ass Backward when it comes to politics and urban planning

Tomahawkin-well at the rate GDOT is going, we'll have those 15 done in about 5 more years. Prolly by that time, there will be a new innovation and GDOT will be on their 3rd commissioner.

  I like how the only interview done with a motorist was a negative one, I was surprised the byline wasnt by Ms. Hart with an article like that.

That 1 Cent Sales Tax Vote in July is gonna be Huge! I don't understand why so many are against it other than Ass Backward politics...Especially knowing damn well that Gas is NOT gonna stay at or near 3 dollars once they hike it up again for unspecified reasons...Top end Perimeter just needs to be redone as a whole with every intersection getting upgraded. Ditto for I-75 from the Cobb Cloverleaf to I-575

Not To mention Both 285/I20 Interchanges need to be redone as well as the Intersections of 285 and US 78 and 285 at PIB (Ptree Ind)

I still cant believe that there are still Left handed merges in use at those interchanges with US 78 and I-20 (West of City)

Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 05, 2012, 10:08:42 AM
That 1 Cent Sales Tax Vote in July is gonna be Huge!

This Untie Atlanta website (http://untieatlanta.com/the-solution/) has an interactive map that shows the projects that would be supported by the sales tax.  It also puts forth the argument that the sales tax would actually replace a "congestion tax":

Quote
This isn't a new tax versus no tax. We're already paying a "congestion tax"  of $924 per year in wasted fuel and lost time. Vote yes for more time to do what you need to do.

I have recently noticed a lot of the interstate-shield "YES" signs in yards.

Quote from: http://www.ajc.com/news/news/transportation/variable-speed-limit-signs-to-go-up-on-i-285/nSGPs/Variable speed limit signs to go up on I-285

QuoteThe legal speed limit on I-285 is set to rise to 65 mph - but cutting-edge traffic technology could lower it throughout the day.

The state Department of Transportation's board voted Thursday to install electronic variable speed limit signs along the northern half of I-285. The speed limit will change depending on congestion, falling when the lanes get more full.

QuoteDOT officials cautioned the speed limit is still 55 mph all the way around the Perimeter until the project is complete. It is just going out to bid now. As far as construction goes, it's a relatively simple one that may just take a few months, possibly opening early next year, Golden said.

or in other words, people will still do 80 around the perimeter, regardless of traffic conditions :)

Today, while driving on I-75, I noticed that several BGS's had covered up "Henry Ford II Avenue" with "Porsche Avenue".  After some initial controversy (http://saportareport.com/blog/2012/10/porsches-ties-to-nazis-aired-before-atlanta-city-council-to-rename-porsche-avenue/), the name change was approved by the Atlanta City Council (http://www.11alive.com/news/article/265809/40/Porsche-breaks-ground-for-new-100-mil-Atlanta-headquarters):

Quote
If you've driven south on I-75 near Atlanta's airport recently, you may have noticed that an exit sign that used to be named for an American car maker, Henry Ford, has been changed to a German car maker.
The name Porsche now marks the exit where a Ford assembly plant stood for nearly 60 years until it was shut down in 2006.

Quote from: Grzrd on February 21, 2012, 08:34:47 PM
The Executive Summary of "Memphis: America's Aerotropolis" (http://www.memphischamber.com/KenticoCMS/Articles/DoBusiness/Aero_Exec_Summ.aspx) says it was coined by John Kasarda in 2006 (page 3/52 of pdf):

Quote
... Dr. John Kasarda, Director of the Kenan Institute of Private Enterprise at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill. Through Dr. Kasarda's studies, the Memphis Region was identified as being the best example of an "aerotropolis,"  a term he coined to mean a new type of urban form combining aviation-intensive businesses and related enterprises extending up to 25 kilometers outward from mega airports.

Quote from: NE2 on February 28, 2012, 11:32:29 AM
Great, another shitty buzzword.

(above 2 quotes from I-69 in MI; Interstate 69 Corridor Aerotropolis (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6207.msg136097#msg136097) thread)

This article (http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-11-27/porsche-breaks-ground-on-new-ga-dot-headquarters) does indeed use the "A" word (no, not Alanland ... nor Alanta, for that matter):

Quote
The new headquarters is being built on the old Ford plant site near Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. The car manufacturer is the first company in the Aerotropolis Atlanta business district.

I did notice that the small green sign on the overpass bridge on the I-75 North side remains Henry Ford II Avenue.

edit

"Aerotropolis" is now enshrined in MAP-21 (http://www.rules.house.gov/Media/file/PDF_112_2/LegislativeText/CRPT-112hrpt-HR4348.pdf), too (page 70/599 of pdf; page 70 of document):

Quote
"˜"˜(i) DEFINITION OF AEROTROPOLIS TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM.–
In this section, the term "˜aerotropolis transportation system' means a planned and coordinated multimodal freight and passenger transportation network that, as determined by the Secretary, provides efficient, cost-effective, sustainable, and intermodal connectivity to a defined region of economic significance centered around a major airport.''.

Quote from: Grzrd on December 09, 2012, 09:00:48 PM
Today, while driving on I-75, I noticed that several BGS's had covered up "Henry Ford II Avenue" with "Porsche Avenue".  After some initial controversy (http://saportareport.com/blog/2012/10/porsches-ties-to-nazis-aired-before-atlanta-city-council-to-rename-porsche-avenue/), the name change was approved by the Atlanta City Council (http://www.11alive.com/news/article/265809/40/Porsche-breaks-ground-for-new-100-mil-Atlanta-headquarters):

Bryant5493 (Southern Roadgeek) posted a suite of photos of the new Porsche Avenue on FB a couple of weeks ago:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.393581554054787.95526.145594065520205&type=1

---

Was wondering what the backstory of the name change was. Thanks!

I made a trip through Georgia (Hart, Franklin, Banks, Barrow and Gwinnett counties) and the I-85 corridor was quite a surprise, seeing the new style signage as far south as GA 20 (Mall of Georgia).  However, isn't the signage on I-85 inside I-285 also upgraded?  I thought it was, but GSV says no, even though it has the upgraded split-off interchange signs for I-85 off I-75 Northbound.

Quote from: OracleUsr on October 07, 2013, 01:42:15 PM
I made a trip through Georgia (Hart, Franklin, Banks, Barrow and Gwinnett counties) and the I-85 corridor was quite a surprise, seeing the new style signage as far south as GA 20 (Mall of Georgia).  However, isn't the signage on I-85 inside I-285 also upgraded?  I thought it was, but GSV says no, even though it has the upgraded split-off interchange signs for I-85 off I-75 Northbound.

Per my recent travels through Atlanta,
Northbound Exit 71 was changed when the new Int'l Airport terminal opened in 2012.
Southbound Exits 72 and 74 were upgraded as of 12-31-12 and Exits 86 and 88 as of 08-07-13.

You can see for yourself on the Downtown Connector here:
https://www.aaroads.com/guide.php?page=i7585naga - north
https://www.aaroads.com/guide.php?page=i7585saga - south

Quote from: Alex on October 07, 2013, 03:00:38 PM

Quote from: OracleUsr on October 07, 2013, 01:42:15 PM
I made a trip through Georgia (Hart, Franklin, Banks, Barrow and Gwinnett counties) and the I-85 corridor was quite a surprise, seeing the new style signage as far south as GA 20 (Mall of Georgia).  However, isn't the signage on I-85 inside I-285 also upgraded?  I thought it was, but GSV says no, even though it has the upgraded split-off interchange signs for I-85 off I-75 Northbound.

Per my recent travels through Atlanta,
Northbound Exit 71 was changed when the new Int'l Airport terminal opened in 2012.
Southbound Exits 72 and 74 were upgraded as of 12-31-12 and Exits 86 and 88 as of 08-07-13.

You can see for yourself on the Downtown Connector here:
https://www.aaroads.com/guide.php?page=i7585naga - north
https://www.aaroads.com/guide.php?page=i7585saga - south

Ah, great, thank you for pointing me to those.  I used to work in the FAA building off Virginia Avenue in East Point, so that was a trip back in time (back when VA Ave. was Exits 19A-B).  I'm not sure I'd ever move to Atlanta, but I was impressed by their MUTCD-standard signs.    First time I ever saw a LEFT banner on a 3-digit + a letter sign...WOW

Wow, nothing ever happens in Georgia.  :ded:

As it happens, I drive through both of Georgia's existing DDI's on a regular basis. The first, at Ashford-Dunwoody Road and I-285, seems to be an unqualified success. The second, at Pleasant Hill Road and I-85, not so much. The first has significantly more right of way, and the turning ramps have liberal allowances for lane encroachments by turning trucks: wider lanes, wider shoulders, and even hatched encroachment zones between the lanes in places. The ROW at the second is a lot tighter, and it looks like a left-turning 18 wheeler would find it difficult if not impossible to stay within its lane.

That said, I've yet to observe even a minor accident at either DDI, though for a while about half of the Dunwoody Police Department would hang out at the A-D/285 DDI during the afternoon rush hour. I find myself wondering whether trucks bound for the huge retail area at PH/85 have figured out-- or been advised-- to avoid that interchange and use nearby alternates instead...

The third DDI, at Jimmy Carter Blvd and I-85, is being built with more liberal turning radii, necessitating the construction of retaining walls on the approaches. Construction seems slow, but IMO the extra effort and expense will be worth it since the interchange serves a major industrial/warehousing area.

Meanwhile, construction is proceeding impressively at the GA 400/I-85 interchange. As usual lately, the bridges are boring AASHTO girders, but they still look OK due to their sweeping paths and hammerhead (T-shaped) piers. Unfortunately, though, the short bridge carrying the 85 NB to 400 NB ramp over Sidney Marcus Blvd uses two different pier/bent designs for no obvious reason. Would it have just killed 'em to make all the piers the same?  :-/

It'll be really interesting to see how they how they sign the new ramps, especially since Georgia has gone to an extra-huge FHWA font-- southbound, there will be three exits within a half mile of each other, at least two of them lane drops and all with space-consuming descriptors. That and how they'll assign the lanes, especially since I-85 is only three lanes in each direction at the existing split, with a fourth lane added or subtracted just to the north. I'm hoping that in the northbound direction they'll do away with the extra mainline lane and add one lane per ramp at the tree successive onramps. That would allow the reintroduction of the (sixth) auxilliary lane from the Lenox-Cheshire Bridge ramp to the next exit at N Druid Hills Road. IMO, that ramp is too short, too heavily traveled, and too uphill for the forced merge that's there now.  :pan:

It's hard to tell, but it looks as though the existing ramp from GA 13 NB to I-85 NB, which as built for one lane but restriped for two long ago, will be restriped back to one. That restriping is why that forced merge I dislike was introduced in the first place.

After The DDI at Jimmy Carter Blvd is complete: Do you know which interchange is scheduled next for a DDI overhaul? Also There are Several Interchanges on GA 400 that needed to be improved BADLY. That section of 400 from I-285 to points northward needed to be redone 15 years ago....Ditto for the Cobb Cloverleaf area

Nah, these days I'm just a windshield roadgeek.  :)  There sure are plenty of candidates, though.

The next DDI in GA will be I-75 @ Wade Green Road.

Are There Anymore than that? And do you have a link? It seems that there are a lot of intersections that need those on the 75/575 Corridors...I wonder when they are going to officially start the HOT Lane process up there? It seems that the media has shifted its attention from that to the 2 new stadiums over the last 2 years. Both stadium plans are going to be total fiascos

I have heard that the interchange of SR 316 @ SR 120 near Lawrenceville is also being studied as a possible DDI.  I have also personally worked on another interchange in Metro Atlanta that has a DDI as one of two alternatives, but I will keep the location of that interchange to myself for now.

Since There wont be any investments in expanding MARTA (Which should've been done 20 years ago), SR 316 and the Interchanges along that route (especially in Gwinnett Co) need a total Overhaul. SR 316 needs to be 8 lanes (One being either a HOV/HOT lane), and the interchanges, especially need to be redone. Most of the interchanges along 316 are the original interchanges from when 316 was built....

Quote from: Tomahawkin on December 27, 2013, 07:35:54 PMMost None of the interchanges along 316 are the original interchanges from when 316 was built....

There. Fixed that for ya. :P OK, the ramps at GA 120 are where they were originally built, but the bridge was widened long ago, and Sugarloaf and Boggs were completely rebuilt. Riverside is new, from the '90's, certainly not original equipment.

QuoteSince There wont be any investments in expanding MARTA (Which should've been done 20 years ago)...

IIRC, a referendum to extend MARTA rail into Gwinnett was held in 1990. It was a terrible deal for Gwinnett because Gwinnett was pledged to fund the entire cost locally so as not to compete for Federal funding with MARTA extensions in Fulton and Dekalb. I voted for it as an expression of support for transit, but only because there was no way in hell it would pass.

QuoteSR 316 and the Interchanges along that route (especially in Gwinnett Co) need a total Overhaul. SR 316 needs to be 8 lanes (One being either a HOV/HOT lane)...

Gee, I dunno. Where would the traffic go once it reached I-85?

That said, have you noticed that there's a lane-wide paved swath for the first few hundred feet of 316 running east from I-85? And there's that unused lane on the flyover from WB 316 to SB 85. Herrington Road is the only existing bridge obstructing the widening 316 to 8 lanes including two HOT lanes as far as GA 120, though those lovely paved swales built as part of the recent 85-316 interchange reconstruction would have to go. 

Quote from: Tom958 on December 28, 2013, 07:11:25 PMHerrington Road is the only existing bridge obstructing the widening 316 to 8 lanes...

Here's something of interest: The Herrington Road bridge is still in its original condition, but when the 85/316 interchange was rebuilt, new barriers were built some distance (eight feet, maybe?) from the bent columns, even though clearances are tight eastbound since an auxiliary lane was added from the Boggs Road onramp to the Sugarloaf Parkway offramp. You can really see it on Google (http://goo.gl/maps/NkrWR). It appears that the barriers are intended to enable replacement of the bents without having to rely on temporary barriers to protect the workers during demolition and reconstruction. So, are they temporary permanent barriers or permanent temporary barriers?   :hmmm:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYCuo9GK.jpg&hash=2f8b23ab79d9f0b5753212accff1f1f013ec1c45)

EDIT: Looking back, I found a 'before' view:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg262.imageshack.us%2Fimg262%2F5356%2F1002195dy1.jpg&hash=d7c873a442744f24ea650ce17839f1919cda9aec)

from these two (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=19002932&postcount=1890) posts (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=19078539&postcount=1922) I did at Skyscapercity. :)

QuoteAs it happens, I drive through both of Georgia's existing DDI's on a regular basis. The first, at Ashford-Dunwoody Road and I-285, seems to be an unqualified success.

I realize that these comments are several weeks old, but just seeing this now, I need to add to it. The DDI at ashford Dunwoody is
a success for traffic 285 EB and EB ONLY.

For 285 West, it made things worse. In the morning, traffic is on the wrong side of the road... 3 lanes over and for those heading to the biggest (bar far) complex over there - Ravinia.... there virtually no time to get over to the entrance with the on coming traffic from 285 east getting on to Ashford Dunwoody (unless they have a red light).

In the afternoon it's much worse. Westbound traffic is already blocked by cars already on 285 exiting to 400 North. This is major, major problem that causes massive back ups.

The DDI created only 1 lane for cars to line up and wait through that mess to get on 285 WB.

And 3 lanes for the other direction....

it's terrible. The whole concept was ill conceived.

Quote from: JoeP on February 16, 2014, 12:47:55 PMFor 285 West, it made things worse. In the morning, traffic is on the wrong side of the road... 3 lanes over and for those heading to the biggest (bar far) complex over there - Ravinia.... there virtually no time to get over to the entrance with the on coming traffic from 285 east getting on to Ashford Dunwoody (unless they have a red light).

In the afternoon it's much worse. Westbound traffic is already blocked by cars already on 285 exiting to 400 North. This is major, major problem that causes massive back ups.

The DDI created only 1 lane for cars to line up and wait through that mess to get on 285 WB.

And 3 lanes for the other direction....

it's terrible. The whole concept was ill conceived.

I travel it eastbound except occasionally during the off peak. :P

One other gripe: My usual path is EB 285 --> NB A-D --> WB Hammond Drive, and... when NB A-D traffic has the green, the right turn movement for EB 285 --> NB A-D sometimes does, too. So motorists have the choice of a harrowing short weave across two lanes of traffic to get the Hammond, or stopping and waiting for a break in traffic while the light is green. I'm also wondering why, if the light is green like that sometimes, why isn't it green all of the time?

Back when Q-Zar Atlanta (Duluth) was open, I used to drive the entire length of GA 316 both ways twice a month. That ended a little over a year ago when Q-Zar closed its doors. :-(

Since then, I've been going to Lazer City in Buford, so I always make the right turn onto GA 20/GA 124 toward the Mall of Georgia, and I hadn't gotten to see any of the progress on GA 316 for a long time, especially since it's usually twilight or dark by the time I get to the construction zone.

Anyway, last week I had to run an errand in Duluth during the afternoon, so I finally got to see some of the progress on GA 316. Unfortunately, time was of the essence, so I didn't get to take any pictures. I didn't realize that the GA 20/GA 124 overpass had already been built, and that they've excavated everything except the temporary lanes across GA 316. I expect traffic to be using the overpass within the next three months.

One thing about this project that I figured they'd do is excavate below ground level for GA 316 at GA 20/GA 124 since the previous at-grade intersection was on the top of a hill. It made more sense to make a cut for GA 316 and leave the overpass at ground level, as opposed to putting GA 20/GA 124 even further above ground level at the top of a hill.

One thing that disappointed me is the fact that they've only laid enough new concrete for four lanes through the emerging interchange. Even worse, it looks as though GA 316 will be stuck with dinky 4' shoulders on both sides in both directions. They're not building this part right, and it's going to cost the state of Georgia even more money when they eventually expand the highway.

Another thing that disappointed me is that they haven't done a damn thing west of Collins Hill Road, so it's likely to be several more months before the Collins Hill Road overpass can even be used. Only now are they beginning to prepare for the eastbound off-ramp and the westbound on-ramp. I figured they'd be much further along with that, considering the Collins Hill Road overpass was built first.

The pace of construction seems to be really slow as well. The I-85/GA 316 interchange was much more involved, with several new bridges, miles of collector/distributor lanes, and a partial reconfiguration of the Pleasant Hill Road interchange, but wasn't that project completed in less than three years? They started work on GA 316 in early 2012, if I remember correctly, and they're still nowhere near done almost two and a half years later, despite this being a much simpler project.

Elsewhere, I'm glad glad glad glad glad that GA 20 is finally being widened between Buford and Cumming. Why they even waited this long to do it is crazy, but better late than never, I guess. Most of the work being done right now is in Gwinnett County, but that's where most of the work needed to be done. In Forsyth County, they don't have to do as much since their segment is shorter, and they have a pretty wide right-of-way as it is. Right now it's a two-lane road with a really chunky center turning lane, which looks kind of cool.

Next project should be widening GA 120 between Alpharetta and Duluth. It took me nearly an hour to drive from Duluth to Fuddruckers at North Point Mall. If cars are going 15 MPH, and there's so much traffic that people can't make left turns, then something needs to be done.

Sometime this weekend I might take some pictures of the Peter Street/Olympic Drive interchange work on the Athens Perimeter.

Quote from: Gnutella on March 01, 2014, 07:39:56 AMUnfortunately, time was of the essence, so I didn't get to take any pictures.

Well, I did, a couple of weeks ago. Now if they'll upload... I may edit them in later.

QuoteOne thing that disappointed me is the fact that they've only laid enough new concrete for four lanes through the emerging interchange. Even worse, it looks as though GA 316 will be stuck with dinky 4' shoulders on both sides in both directions. They're not building this part right, and it's going to cost the state of Georgia even more money when they eventually expand the highway.

I recall full-width shoulders on the right, but I can't tell from the photo I took. Much more interesting, though: The left edge of the new lanes appears to line up exactly with the joint between the two existing lanes. When I first saw it, I was startled. I think the existing 316 has a standard 44 foot median, which would make the new median 68 feet, enough for four additional lanes plus ten foot left shoulders if the median barrier is made of rice paper. :P

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FK3g6zQ2.jpg&hash=f3b26e9c9109b9b7b6f6d9e1f68b51b2317c3ba3)

That also suggests that GDOT intends to remove and replace all of the existing pavement throughout the project length. If so, that's still a lot of work to be done.

QuoteAnother thing that disappointed me is that they haven't done a damn thing west of Collins Hill Road, so it's likely to be several more months before the Collins Hill Road overpass can even be used. Only now are they beginning to prepare for the eastbound off-ramp and the westbound on-ramp. I figured they'd be much further along with that, considering the Collins Hill Road overpass was built first.

They're working west of Collins Hill, and I'm utterly at a loss to understand what's going on. Pile and lagging excavation support has been placed on both sides of 316 near that bridge over a creek and (I think) a pipeline to about eight feet above the existing mainline, and on the eastbound side, fill and some frontage road pavement has been placed to that elevation. One abutment of a new bridge is in progress, too.

The frontage road appears to be high enough to require a retaining wall or something between it and the mainline, but there's not enough elevation difference to stick in a bridge across 316 for access to the nearby college (I worked as field engineer on that big round building, btw. It was fun!) or U-turns. So, I dunno WTF. I sure wish GDOT would put something online.  :pan:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWEapAiW.jpg&hash=aa43e88740661979a6dcd332bd07159594b9634a)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FriCYxug.jpg&hash=7be0d79ac59949291d22c6e197e90a0db6fb4bbf)

On the westbound side, it's hard to see what's going on, but it appeared that regrading was in progress at the bottom of the excavation support. Could it be that the soils supporting the existing roadway embankment were found to be unsuitable?

West of there, there wasn't any work in progress to tie the frontage roads back into the mainline. And they'd be pretty close to the existing ramps at GA 120, too, close enough to suggest a need for at least an auxiliary lane.

QuoteElsewhere, I'm glad glad glad glad glad that GA 20 is finally being widened between Buford and Cumming. Why they even waited this long to do it is crazy, but better late than never, I guess. Most of the work being done right now is in Gwinnett County, but that's where most of the work needed to be done. In Forsyth County, they don't have to do as much since their segment is shorter, and they have a pretty wide right-of-way as it is. Right now it's a two-lane road with a really chunky center turning lane, which looks kind of cool.

I think the delay has a lot to do with the legacy of the Northern Arc. I noticed that there's a SPLOST sign on the Gwinnett project, which suggests that the funding comes from the county, not the state or feds.

QuoteNext project should be widening GA 120 between Alpharetta and Duluth. It took me nearly an hour to drive from Duluth to Fuddruckers at North Point Mall. If cars are going 15 MPH, and there's so much traffic that people can't make left turns, then something needs to be done.

Yeah, that'll happen. :P

Finally got round to uploading some pics. I edited three into my previous post about GA 316-- scroll up if you're interested. :) Also, Gnutella was incorrect: The 316 mainline has full-width shoulders. The narrow ones he spoke of are only on the frontage roads, which are now carrying the mainline traffic.


Next item of business: Arrow per lane signs! Here's one, taken from the onramp/CD from Howell Mill Road to I-75 SB:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHMMc5eJ.jpg&hash=9e68456fa348a83ebcb21a143c5853bd97c8908e)



And the next, just south of there, the stretch I call Death Merge '85 because getting from where I just was to I-85 NB requires three lane changes in a mile while heading down a steep grade with a curve at the bottom. Nice looking sign, I'd say:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FCv2ZcNm.jpg&hash=43267ceab40f519817f24eb05f2a2f3928322b66)



Oooooh, pretty! This is on the ramp from 75 SB to 85 NB, with the 75 HOV lane on the left. Just visible ahead (maybe) is a 25mph curve that drivers regularly overshoot. I suppose the epic paint job is meant to slow drivers down, but to me it says, "Mr Sulu, engage warp drive!"
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdvU4CYg.jpg&hash=be22076e7fbb2c8f86598874de8bc98876548ad7)



In contrast to the two previous APL signs I showed you, there's this, on 85 SB approaching the new 400 ramps now under construction. Does it blow, or what? For reasons I can't fathom, Georgia is replacing its signage (with its weird compressed FHWA font), not with Clearview, but with old skool signage with really big letters. Except here, they used little bitty letters instead and crammed them together to make enough room to... put the I-85 field off center to the right! WTF?  :banghead:

Apparently they haven't decided what to do with the arrow under GA 13. If it were up to me, I'd sign it as a lane drop and let the short recovery lane be a pleasant surprise, but a case could be made for signing it as optional. Either way, though, they should've decided before the sign was erected, don't you think?  :rolleyes:

Behind you can see the old signage, and the sign bridge that spans the entire twelve lane roadway. It carries two signs for the NB side-- will they keep it? Time will tell, I guess. Oh: when the wind blew right, I could see that the 400 field has control cities of Buckhead/Cumming. A bit wordy for this location, IMO.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXSdWSgo.jpg&hash=3c821ca52bbd72781e2927ef931a4a567c25e34a)


A bit further south, new old skool signage. In the contractor's yard I saw another APL sign for 85--perhaps it'll go here
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FSEzhfQA.jpg&hash=0dbd23465ee18b23dd4869b684568bda53ce49e6)


Finally, a crappy shot of the 85-400 interchange. At least it shows the start of what I called the recovery lane above. You can also (barely) see the traditional two-sign overhead at the ramp split (GA 13 SB to the left, GA 400 NB to the right).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkL5UgTD.jpg&hash=f3ccfd9e9d875de33ef8bef5d2baf30cfa7b84a9)

Yeah, seeing these Atlanta-area pics reminds me of my days with IBM in Marietta.  I spent weekends sometimes all over the greater Metro area.

...back when Georgia used their classic unisign style and the sequential exit numbering.

That I-75S to I-85N ramp is a bear even when you're NOT coming from Howell Mill or US 41.  I'd almost rather go N on I-75 to I-285 than try to maneuver that cluster---- from the right lane.

Nice APL, though on the split.

The epic paint job reminds me of what I've seen painted on freeways in Japan in curves.

At least Georgia is getting better at kerning their BGSs. The old dark green fiberglass ones that used to be on the rural Interstates as recently as the 1990's looked like they were put together by elementary school kids. :-D

Quote from: Tom958 on March 26, 2014, 08:18:04 PM
Finally got round to uploading some pics. I edited three into my previous post about GA 316-- scroll up if you're interested. :) Also, Gnutella was incorrect: The 316 mainline has full-width shoulders. The narrow ones he spoke of are only on the frontage roads, which are now carrying the mainline traffic.

More for me to have to rephotograph for a future AARoads update... :rolleyes:

All new signs in Georgia have the larger type (as you said, Highway Gothic thankfully). They also utilize external exit tabs.

(https://www.aaroads.com/southeast/georgia095/i-095_nb_exit_109_04.jpg) (https://www.aaroads.com/southeast/georgia095/i-095_nb_exit_109_04.jpg)

Quote from: Tom958 on March 26, 2014, 08:18:04 PMFor reasons I can't fathom, Georgia is replacing its signage (with its weird compressed FHWA font), not with Clearview, but with old skool signage with really big letters.

The old GDOT standard was FHWA Series E Modified with 16" caps/12" lowercase.  Sometime in the mid-nineties, GDOT decided to replace it with "Georgia font," which was basically its interpretation of mixed-case FHWA Series D (which did not exist in an officially approved version at the time) with the dot omitted from lowercase i.  Georgia font was used at 20" caps/15" lowercase.  The engineering gamble, which GDOT did not win in any convincing way, was that the 25% increase in height would more than compensate for the intrinsically lower legibility of Series D compared to Series E Modified, giving drivers more reading distance for essentially the same sign panel area.  (It is probable that the reading distance remained almost exactly the same.  Series D has an intrinsic legibility of about 0.6 meters per millimeter of letter height, while Series E Modified is 25% higher at 0.75.)  In the last three or four years GDOT has given up on Georgia font and gone back to Series E Modified, while retaining 20" caps/15" lowercase and cutting horizontal margins down to far less than specification to keep sign panel area down, as is demonstrated by Alex's picture upthread of the SR 21/Port Wentworth advance guide sign.

I may be making a trip with a friend to Atlanta a week from this Sunday. I'd better get all the pictures I can of the old-style signs. The Georgia Font thing was always something I liked seeing as it was different, and to help that it was still a FHWA font to boot. Well, at least you aren't going to Clearview...

Well, it's a losing battle to pit my own casual observations against J N Winkler's encyclopedic knowledge, but... I always thought that the reason that Georgia went to what I've heard described as its compressed font was to reduce letter width in order to be able to fit more text into a given sign width and thereby describe the destinations served by closely-spaced exits more elaborately. I've never liked the font, and to me it appears less readable than its predecessor, but if

Quote from: J N Winkler'sIt is probable that the reading distance remained almost exactly the same.

maybe it wasn't such a bad idea.

As for timing, there were some false starts with the Georgia font, but it was all but ubiquitous by the time of the '96 Olympics. And neatly done, too. :)

I'll probably be cursed and reviled for saying this, but... to me, staying with the Georgia font would've been defensible-- it was created to solve a specific problem, and for all of its shortcomings, it's lead to signage that's (mostly) neat and consistent. Going to Clearview would've been defensible-- it was meticulously crafted to address the same issue as the Georgia font was, two neighboring states are slowly adopting it, and I personally prefer addressing problems through finesse rather than through brute force; in this case, really big letters.   :spin: Going back to old skool was not-- it's as though GDOT has forgotten why they invented the Georgia font in the first place. The obvious difference in letter size in this photo bears that out:



Having said all of this, I wish I'd made an effort to track whether sign legends have gotten less wordy with the introduction of old skool.

I've seen zero evidence of this, but I can't help but suspect that Clearview is regarded by some at GDOT as an element of the Agenda 21 conspiracy, and that GDOT will not be duped into using it, unlike the hapless Texans.  :-D That may be because Jerry Stargell, longtime spokesman for GDOT, once told me that one of the purposes of building four-lane highways across the trackless wastes of rural Georgia was to enable preachers to prosthelytize the gospel of Jesus Christ more effectively. That and the fact that the reintroduction of old skool coincided with the revision of the MUTCD to dictate that two lane exits with optional lanes shall be signed exactly the same as ones where both lanes are being dropped, and that LEFT placards must be placed at left exits even as the introduction of indexed exit tabs and APL signs makes them redundant... it's as though there was this pent-up reservoir of stupid, and the dam has broken.  :pan:

But that's just me, I guess.  :bigass:

Quote from: tdindy88I may be making a trip with a friend to Atlanta a week from this Sunday. I'd better get all the pictures I can of the old-style signs.

By all means do, but there are still plenty left. It's not as though seconds count. And welcome to our fair city. :)

Double post! On a different topic: GA 316...

Quote from: Alex on March 27, 2014, 06:45:17 PMMore for me to have to rephotograph for a future AARoads update... :rolleyes:

Indeed. At this rate, though, it won't be for a long while. Having said that, if there's some sort of breakthrough, now it's up to me to document it here. In fact, I'd be somewhat surprised but not shocked if traffic was already using the new GA 20 bridge.

One thing I didn't mention before: There's a gar-normous pile of fill dirt to the northwest of the project site, well outside the right of way. I'm guessing that it's the spoils from excavation of the new mainline of 316 under GA 20, and that it'll be placed mostly on the north side of 316 for the westbound frontage road.

Oh, about this photo:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FK3g6zQ2.jpg&hash=f3b26e9c9109b9b7b6f6d9e1f68b51b2317c3ba3)


I was a bit hurried when I took it because I was going to Athens, and the left lane of 316 that I was in to take the photo is compulsory left turn onto GA 20, so I had to work on merging right PDQ. A second lane for EB 316 is added on the right, after the ramp meets the frontage road. Not an ideal arrangement for the current detour, IMO, but on concrete pavement motorists often follow the pavement joints instead of the painted lines, so if the two coincide, at least there'll be fewer differences of opinion among motorists as to where the lanes are.

Quote from: Tom958 on March 28, 2014, 04:37:37 AMWell, it's a losing battle to pit my own casual observations against J N Winkler's encyclopedic knowledge, but... I always thought that the reason that Georgia went to what I've heard described as its compressed font was to reduce letter width in order to be able to fit more text into a given sign width and thereby describe the destinations served by closely-spaced exits more elaborately. I've never liked the font, and to me it appears less readable than its predecessor, but if

Quote from: J N Winkler'sIt is probable that the reading distance remained almost exactly the same.

maybe it wasn't such a bad idea.

Your words are kind, but I am somewhat limited in that my knowledge is "office" knowledge, since I haven't ever driven in Georgia and haven't even been in the state other than to change planes at Atlanta Hartsfield more than ten years ago.

This said, I think your theory for the adoption of Georgia font is plausible.  My own assumption has been that GDOT was looking for a cheap way to get ahead of the curve in accommodating the elderly.  There were a number of research reports in the early nineties suggesting that reading distance for signs would have to be increased by about 20%-25% in order to accommodate the diminished visual acuity of older drivers.  Clearview was developed as one way of achieving this, and Georgia font has always seemed to me to be another.  The gold standard, of course, is just to increase letter size 25% while keeping the typeface the same, and accept the size penalties.  This is ultimately what GDOT has done.

QuoteHaving said all of this, I wish I'd made an effort to track whether sign legends have gotten less wordy with the introduction of old skool.

Actually, with TransPI you can now do this tracking in arrears, by looking at the construction plans.  Setting work type equal to "Signing" will pull up the 276 or so signing contracts GDOT has in the database.  You can also choose route and milepost combinations to shave the results down to a sample size that is manageable for close analysis.

The database includes construction plans from three periods:  original "old skool" (16" UC/12" LC Series E Modified), Georgia font (20" UC/15" LC Series D), and new "old skool" (20" UC/15" LC Series E Modified).  My impression is that GDOT used some techniques back in the "old skool" days that were allowed to lapse during the Georgia font period and are now being revived to a certain extent, such as:

*  Breaking up individual road names across multiple lines

*  Using abbreviations systematically, even when these are difficult to understand for stranger drivers (e.g. "P'tree," "Indl")

*  More strictly enforcing a hierarchy among the possible destinations that can be signed (bumping less important ones off the action signs)

QuoteI've seen zero evidence of this, but I can't help but suspect that Clearview is regarded by some at GDOT as an element of the Agenda 21 conspiracy, and that GDOT will not be duped into using it, unlike the hapless Texans.  :-D That may be because Jerry Stargell, longtime spokesman for GDOT, once told me that one of the purposes of building four-lane highways across the trackless wastes of rural Georgia was to enable preachers to proselytize the gospel of Jesus Christ more effectively.

This doesn't surprise me--a friend of mine who was more active in visiting state DOT offices than I am remembered being offered a religious tract when he visited one in Florida.

This said, I suspect the reason Clearview didn't make it in Georgia may have more to do with timing.  GDOT was, as you say, committed to the Georgia font around the time of the Atlanta Olympics in 1996.  Clearview did not have prototypes publicly available until 1998, with the first on-road experimental installations showing up around 2000, approval by individual state DOTs in 2003 (TxDOT was among the first, if not actually the first), and FHWA interim approval in September 2004.  GDOT gave up on Georgia font and returned to Series E Modified around 2010, by which time the Clearview backlash was well underway.  Unlike Pennsylvania and Texas, Georgia doesn't have any prestigious transportation research institutes that carried out major Clearview research and thus has a stake in that type family's continued success, so the "not invented here" syndrome might also have played a role.

Economics might be another factor.  I suspect that close examination of the signing plans would show at least two sign replacements for the same stretch of road within the twenty-year period during which GDOT used the Georgia font.  That frequency is reasonable if it corresponds to the natural lifespan of the sign sheeting used (taking the minimum retroreflectivity requirement into account), but if the sheeting was going to last longer but for the font, then replacement at so short an interval is an unnecessary expense.  Plus, right now, FHWA is much more likely to cancel the Clearview interim approval than it is to substitute Clearview for the FHWA alphabet series in the MUTCD, so by sticking with Series E Modified, GDOT is more securely futureproofed.

Quote from: J N Winkler on March 28, 2014, 11:28:44 AMThis said, I think your theory for the adoption of Georgia font is plausible.  My own assumption has been that GDOT was looking for a cheap way to get ahead of the curve in accommodating the elderly.  There were a number of research reports in the early nineties suggesting that reading distance for signs would have to be increased by about 20%-25% in order to accommodate the diminished visual acuity of older drivers.  Clearview was developed as one way of achieving this, and Georgia font has always seemed to me to be another.  The gold standard, of course, is just to increase letter size 25% while keeping the typeface the same, and accept the size penalties.  This is ultimately what GDOT has done.

Or they could've gone for 18" Clearview. Seriously.

Quote from: J N Winkler

Quote from: Tom958Having said all of this, I wish I'd made an effort to track whether sign legends have gotten less wordy with the introduction of old skool.

Actually, with TransPI you can now do this tracking in arrears, by looking at the construction plans.  Setting work type equal to "Signing" will pull up the 276 or so signing contracts GDOT has in the database.  You can also choose route and milepost combinations to shave the results down to a sample size that is manageable for close analysis.

The database includes construction plans from three periods:  original "old skool" (16" UC/12" LC Series E Modified), Georgia font (20" UC/15" LC Series D), and new "old skool" (20" UC/15" LC Series E Modified).  My impression is that GDOT used some techniques back in the "old skool" days that were allowed to lapse during the Georgia font period and are now being revived to a certain extent, such as:

*  Breaking up individual road names across multiple lines

*  Using abbreviations systematically, even when these are difficult to understand for stranger drivers (e.g. "P'tree," "Indl")

*  More strictly enforcing a hierarchy among the possible destinations that can be signed (bumping less important ones off the action signs)

Man, I've stepped in it now!  :wow:

Quote from: J N WinklerThis said, I suspect the reason Clearview didn't make it in Georgia may have more to do with timing.  GDOT was, as you say, committed to the Georgia font around the time of the Atlanta Olympics in 1996.  Clearview did not have prototypes publicly available until 1998, with the first on-road experimental installations showing up around 2000, approval by individual state DOTs in 2003 (TxDOT was among the first, if not actually the first), and FHWA interim approval in September 2004.  GDOT gave up on Georgia font and returned to Series E Modified around 2010, by which time the Clearview backlash was well underway.  Unlike Pennsylvania and Texas, Georgia doesn't have any prestigious transportation research institutes that carried out major Clearview research and thus has a stake in that type family's continued success, so the "not invented here" syndrome might also have played a role.

Economics might be another factor.  I suspect that close examination of the signing plans would show at least two sign replacements for the same stretch of road within the twenty-year period during which GDOT used the Georgia font.  That frequency is reasonable if it corresponds to the natural lifespan of the sign sheeting used (taking the minimum retroreflectivity requirement into account), but if the sheeting was going to last longer but for the font, then replacement at so short an interval is an unnecessary expense.

Well, switching fonts will present issues no matter what the new font is. But surely going to bigger letters will result in bigger signs at some locations, requiring not only new signs but larger support structures as well. And, as the photo I posted shows, sometimes bigger letters flat out won't work.

Quote from: J N WinklerPlus, right now, FHWA is much more likely to cancel the Clearview interim approval than it is to substitute Clearview for the FHWA alphabet series in the MUTCD, so by sticking with Series E Modified, GDOT is more securely futureproofed.

Say what?  :hmmm:

EDIT: NVM, found this thread  :clap:

Quote from: J N Winkler on March 28, 2014, 11:28:44 AM
Economics might be another factor.  I suspect that close examination of the signing plans would show at least two sign replacements for the same stretch of road within the twenty-year period during which GDOT used the Georgia font.  That frequency is reasonable if it corresponds to the natural lifespan of the sign sheeting used (taking the minimum retroreflectivity requirement into account), but if the sheeting was going to last longer but for the font, then replacement at so short an interval is an unnecessary expense.

I suspect you're right about this. Georgia's switch from sequential to milepost exit numbering occurred around 1999-2000, and if memory serves, this was accomplished not by covering over the existing exit numbers, but rather by fabricating entirely new signage.

Quote from: Eth on March 28, 2014, 08:04:59 PM

Quote from: J N Winkler on March 28, 2014, 11:28:44 AM
Economics might be another factor.  I suspect that close examination of the signing plans would show at least two sign replacements for the same stretch of road within the twenty-year period during which GDOT used the Georgia font.  That frequency is reasonable if it corresponds to the natural lifespan of the sign sheeting used (taking the minimum retroreflectivity requirement into account), but if the sheeting was going to last longer but for the font, then replacement at so short an interval is an unnecessary expense.

I suspect you're right about this. Georgia's switch from sequential to milepost exit numbering occurred around 1999-2000, and if memory serves, this was accomplished not by covering over the existing exit numbers, but rather by fabricating entirely new signage.

That is exactly how it went. All signs, including any remaining Interstate button copy signage, were replaced in one fell swoop. This also included the removal of sign lighting fixtures on all Interstates as well.

Quote from: Tom958 on March 26, 2014, 08:18:04 PM

Apparently they haven't decided what to do with the arrow under GA 13. If it were up to me, I'd sign it as a lane drop and let the short recovery lane be a pleasant surprise, but a case could be made for signing it as optional. Either way, though, they should've decided before the sign was erected, don't you think?  :rolleyes:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXSdWSgo.jpg&hash=3c821ca52bbd72781e2927ef931a4a567c25e34a)

It looks like that arrow you're referring to will eventually allow drivers to stay on 85 or exit to Peachtree St in that particular lane (85 will have four lanes plus the HOT lane). Now the big question is what is Exit 86? For that exit will take away the second right lane.

I used to live right by that interchange; once the NB GA 400 ramp opens, that's a lot of info to put in cramped quarters..The Cheshire Bridge Rd./Lenox could have been down-sized, and my gut tell's me GDOT is gonna eventually realize that..So for the moment, a work in process..Not uncommon for GDOT.

Quote from: brownpelican on March 30, 2014, 01:11:24 AM
It looks like that arrow you're referring to will eventually allow drivers to stay on 85 or exit to Peachtree St in that particular lane (85 will have four lanes plus the HOT lane). Now the big question is what is Exit 86? For that exit will take away the second right lane.

In the current configuration, Exit 86 is GA 13 southbound. From what I can tell, the new configuration will have a single exit (still numbered 86) to both GA 13 southbound and GA 400 northbound, with the ramp splitting downstream to serve those two highways.

The new I-85-GA 400 ramps are open.  :clap:

I took some photos, but I don't like them. Maybe I can take some better ones before too long. The interchange is fairly impressive, but it's weirdly hard to photograph well.

Northbound, there are four general lanes of I-85 which split 3-2 at the ramp to 400, with a fourth 85 lane added back on the right just beyond the gore. Now the fourth lane has been striped away to make room for the added lane from the 400 SB to 85 NB ramp while leaving the GA 13 to 85 NB ramp as two lanes on a bridge constructed for one. Not what I would've preferred, but it was the cheapest and least disruptive thing to do.

EDIT: OK, maybe one photo:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FIcsMEcZ.jpg&hash=674df9807543c047dbfad01dbe5767f114f1b5ef)

which replaced:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FSEzhfQA.jpg&hash=0dbd23465ee18b23dd4869b684568bda53ce49e6)

What is the Completion date for the DDI @Jimmy Carter Blvd and I-85? Also are there anymore planned DDI's...And do you guys have suggestions for Interchanges that need DDI's?

Quote from: Tomahawkin on April 10, 2014, 12:14:07 PM
What is the Completion date for the DDI @Jimmy Carter Blvd and I-85? Also are there anymore planned DDI's...And do you guys have suggestions for Interchanges that need DDI's?

I have seen a proposal for a DDI at Wade Green Rd & I-75 in Cobb County.
I think they would work well in locations that have significant left-turning traffic and/or situations where the existing bridge can't be easily widened.

Quote from: Tomahawkin on April 10, 2014, 12:14:07 PM
What is the Completion date for the DDI @Jimmy Carter Blvd and I-85?

I dunno, but when I drove by there last week, it looked as though work was at a standstill. The big retaining wall and the curb and gutter in front of it were done, but I didn't see anything else worth noting-- except the lack of something worth noting. Perhaps the bridge modifications have encountered unforeseen problems.

I took a little roadgeeking drive today. First stop: GA 316. The GA 20 bridge is tantalizingly close to completion-- the lanes are painted-- but the approaches need the top coat of asphalt. I took a couple of pics, but I'm not even gonna bother with posting them. Oh: except for this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fb89m2tr.jpg&hash=011a36c98c1cb88f3acbbfc8602ea09d23deaafe)

How many times have I driven past this and not noticed? This sign is within the posted construction limits, but the button copy arrow sign just beyond isn't. Dare we hope that it'll survive?

Next, down toward the 85/400 interchange by way of 400. After finding that treasure in Gwinnett, I stopped at the Lenox Road/400 interchange, where the last button copy installation that I know of in Georgia took place. It's gone now, but getting back on 400 southbound I took this pic of the MARTA Buckhead Station's new north concourse and footbridges:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwCBsVO8.jpg&hash=6e016fc42ce949624a7b677c16d4ce1cdc3febfe)

A bit further south, passing under MARTA...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FaZgesm9.jpg&hash=1557e6efe8a9eb00013808423c92524c6f727294) 

...taking the new ramp from 400 southbound to 85 northbound...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZ5AYDut.jpg&hash=58ba6601f0448419ffb4c95a50757d3f94357a12)

...and entering I-85. Not the neatest paint job in the world, is it? Just beyond here, I had to brake to allow a crush of traffic from the Lenox-Cheshire Bridge onramp to enter the highway-- on a Sunday afternoon! I've said it before, I'll say it again: I wish they'd taken the opportunity to give that ramp its own merger-free entrance lane.   :-/
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FgBJZpd8.jpg&hash=7dcc62b7818325d066541bcdfe36bf13b0c7bdf4)

I stopped at QuikTrip at Sidney Marcus and 400 for a smoke break and walked over to take this photo, looking eastward under 400. Three different pier designs! The farthest away is the new ramp from 85 southbound to 400 northbound, with a two-column bent in the median and a hammerhead on the south. Would it have just killed 'em to make them the same?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F0tUEdRA.jpg&hash=15354c8700fd9fb5180a7bdf5e2b1ec3bc0a422f)

From the other side, looking west. This is my second pass, and the pic still sucks.  :banghead:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fd7LBFoZ.jpg&hash=c49899e60c922de1e26b66d947e0e743529a0c1b)


Passing through downtown, two rogue APL signs, for a split without optional lanes. MUTCD? What's that?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkSH0OMj.jpg&hash=96a64cb177e0aca3221c057b40868e81e1bddd54)

This post is getting really big. I think I'll make a separate post for what I actually wanted to show you in the first place.  :-D

Heading east on I-20 to the new(ish) addition of lanes from I-285 to Panola Road. Here we're passing under the 20 eastbound to 285 northbound ramp, just before the new CD serving traffic coming from 285 and going to Wesley Chapel Road. Formerly there were three mainline lanes for I-20 combining with three narrowing to two from 285 into a five lane roadway, with a two-lane drop at the Wesley Chapel exit. Now, there's a three lane mainline and a three lane CD.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FH4LPE5Y.jpg%3F1&hash=e77ee38a803341b14504c841f8e2edbb3b38b743)

On the CD, the first APL sign I ever saw in Georgia. The third lane from 285 has already ended.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FcxaBcz9.jpg&hash=698e392560957f1e214c4eb61d06557f44dd0202)

At the split. For a while, the right fork of the optional lane that the arrow indicates didn't exist-- surprise! The bridge at Wesley Chapel was replaced about five years ago, and bays for CD's were provided at considerable expense. They're not being used, though. You'll soon see why.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FK8JWdmi.jpg&hash=0a5031e91513aff6962f2aa9478d7c8c8e42c924)

Just beyond Wesley Chapel, there are still five lanes, with the Wesley Chapel onramp merging into the right lanes, which will soon end. That's why the CD didn't use the bay under the Wesley Chapel bridge: the room was needed to cram six lanes into four as quickly as possible.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFCZ1QrK.jpg&hash=61f34f6f63f9bc6a1c0e6f4a9ab6bbca2e6fdb6f) (http://imgur.com/FCZ1QrK)

And, the crowning glory: after the cramdown, no shoulders at all on this short bridge! I guess the noise barriers ate up whatever money had been budgeted for adding at least a right shoulder.  :pan:
AFAIK, that bridge was built in 1960 or so and still exists somewhere under the asphalt. Standard rural shoulders were added in the early '70's and the median was decked over not long after that when the 36 foot median was used for two more lanes. Frugality is a virtue, but I think we could've popped for something better here.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkckhDgY.jpg&hash=2b64c4ab8093acab3e7f5aa1d8081e1d858985c8)

Going back westbound, plenty of noise barriers but no extra lane, and (not pictured) a scary-short onramp from Panola Road.   :-o
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWJzUhk5.jpg&hash=cea19dd48643525f16dffbadd46739bb730c44ee)

I guess Exit 1A for the 400-SB-to-85-NB ramp is about the most sensible number Georgia could use there. It's south of Exit 1, and thus technically out of sequence, but I-185 and I-520 have already made it apparent that "Exit 0" shall not be a thing.

Quote from: Tom958 on May 04, 2014, 09:53:23 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FcxaBcz9.jpg&hash=698e392560957f1e214c4eb61d06557f44dd0202)

At the split. For a while, the right fork of the optional lane that the arrow indicates didn't exist-- surprise! The bridge at Wesley Chapel was replaced about five years ago, and bays for CD's were provided at considerable expense. They're not being used, though. You'll soon see why.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FK8JWdmi.jpg&hash=0a5031e91513aff6962f2aa9478d7c8c8e42c924)

I pass through here three days a week on my way to work, and this irks me every time. I know, I know, 2009 MUTCD or whatever, but these signs contradict each other. Either there are three lanes or there are four. Either it's an option lane or it isn't. Make up your damn mind. (This also applies to the next interchange at Panola Rd.)

Quote from: Eth on May 04, 2014, 10:55:13 PMI pass through here three days a week on my way to work, and this irks me every time. I know, I know, 2009 MUTCD or whatever, but these signs contradict each other. Either there are three lanes or there are four. Either it's an option lane or it isn't. Make up your damn mind. (This also applies to the next interchange at Panola Rd.)

I'm with you, bro. It's disorienting as hell. Spend decades establishing a sensible system for signing optional lane exits, then change it and implement the change with astonishing speed. WTF? The worst spot, which I also spotted yesterday, is at the Williams Street exit downtown, where the white-black and two-black arrow signs are unusually close to each other. I did a double take, and that's not a place where you'd want someone to swerve left to avoid a nonexistent lane drop.

You may have noticed, though, that westbound on I-20, the sign for the ramp to 285 north still has the old (better) white-black arrows even though the sign was replaced relatively recently.

Oh: Another thing I spotted but didn't get a pic of because it was so unexpected: They've replaced the former sensible sign for the Stone Mountain Park main entrance from US 78 eastbound with a double black upward-pointing arrow sign-- where the ramp from GA 236 enters the mainline, a good half a mile before the exit!  :banghead:

Google Streetview shows both of these, but it's not letting me copy links ATM, so you'll have to look them up yourself if you want to see.

OMG, make it stop! There are now two more MUTCD noncompliant APL signs replacing this perfectly adequate assembly (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.786212,-84.390829,3a,75y,344.85h,88.77t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s1tx5bKUx2s0Ohez6ygpEtg!2e0) and the one behind it. WTF, GDOT?

Quote from: Tom958 on May 15, 2014, 06:17:06 AM
OMG, make it stop! There are now two more MUTCD noncompliant APL signs replacing this perfectly adequate assembly (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.786212,-84.390829,3a,75y,344.85h,88.77t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s1tx5bKUx2s0Ohez6ygpEtg!2e0) and the one behind it. WTF, GDOT?

What a waste of money, those signs are from what 2012? Talk about getting bang for your tax dollar buck...

Quote from: Alex on May 15, 2014, 09:45:23 AM

Quote from: Tom958 on May 15, 2014, 06:17:06 AM
OMG, make it stop! There are now two more MUTCD noncompliant APL signs replacing this perfectly adequate assembly (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.786212,-84.390829,3a,75y,344.85h,88.77t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s1tx5bKUx2s0Ohez6ygpEtg!2e0) and the one behind it. WTF, GDOT?

What a waste of money, those signs are from what 2012? Talk about getting bang for your tax dollar buck...

While I don't believe that money should be wasted on signs that don't need replacing, I do see a benefit of using the APL signs even when there is no option lane.  For one matter, it makes this type of signage more commonplace.  And in some contexts APLs can also be easier to read than the traditional signs.

Even though they aren't compliant, they're not bad signs.

Quote from: mrsman on May 25, 2014, 12:09:44 PMWhile I don't believe that money should be wasted on signs that don't need replacing, I do see a benefit of using the APL signs even when there is no option lane.  For one matter, it makes this type of signage more commonplace.  And in some contexts APLs can also be easier to read than the traditional signs.

Even though they aren't compliant, they're not bad signs.

Have you seen them? They're horrible, much less readable than the signs they replaced (I like the ones a mile north on I-75, btw). Their worst feature is due to the fact that there are three dropped lanes, so there's this unreadable

EXIT^ONLYEXIT^ONLYEXIT^ONLY

thing goin.' I wish I'd gotten photos, but between being on the phone at the time and the raw shock effect of seeing something so reprehensible, my reaction time was too slow. I'll try again next time I'm down that way.

As far as that goes, there used to be an optional lane there; it was striped away decades ago. If it were reintroduced, an APL sign there would make more sense, but the multiple exit onlies would still make it hard to read.

Oh, since we're in the neighborhood, I noticed that that the sign for

Williams St
World Congress Ctr
Ga Dome/Aquarium

now exists in both compressed font and first grade pencil versions. So much for my theory that the compressed font was introduced to enable wordier legends to fit on signs.  :spin:

I have photos of that, but I won't post them unless someone asks nicely. :P

FWIW as I get older I'm appreciating APL more; even for younger folks deciphering the stipples at a complex exit or on a wide road can be difficult at highway speeds. I do think FHWA should have adopted the Canadian (or at least Ontario) design that allows omitting the left-hand through lanes to make APL option lane signage simpler, though.

Arrow Per-Lane seems to wasted in places where a simple EXIT ONLY section would do. I don't mind it for exits with multiple ramps, ramps with multiple exits, or exits in which multiple lanes depart from the through route.

I'm not an anti-APL militant. It has its uses, like here:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FCv2ZcNm.jpg&hash=43267ceab40f519817f24eb05f2a2f3928322b66)

and here:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FcxaBcz9.jpg&hash=698e392560957f1e214c4eb61d06557f44dd0202)

But Georgia is using it in places where the old way would be better, and spending too much money to do it.

Do you remember... back when big arrow signs were introduced, Georgia went overboard with them, too, using them for several service interchange offramps that happened to have two lanes. They didn't last long before being replaced-- hopefully these rogue APL's won't, either.

Quote from: Tom958 on May 04, 2014, 09:00:44 PMI took a little roadgeeking drive today. First stop: GA 316. The GA 20 bridge is tantalizingly close to completion-- the lanes are painted-- but the approaches need the top coat of asphalt. I took a couple of pics, but I'm not even gonna bother with posting them. Oh: except for this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fb89m2tr.jpg&hash=011a36c98c1cb88f3acbbfc8602ea09d23deaafe)

How many times have I driven past this and not noticed? This sign is within the posted construction limits, but the button copy arrow sign just beyond isn't. Dare we hope that it'll survive?

I drove out to Buford two weekends ago, and the new overpass for GA 20/GA 124 over GA 316 was open. It's magnificent. They're going to have to repave north of the overpass, though, because of all the grooves in the asphalt from the lines that were stripped away, and the ruts from the tires. They all run diagonally across the road there.

I also went to Buford this weekend, and they've excavated away the old GA 20/GA 124 alignment, so you can now see the whole overpass from the east, and you can see through the overpass from the west. They've already put down some mainline concrete on the east side of the overpass as well. No word on how the Collins Hill Road overpass is progressing since I typically don't make it down that far.

By the way, I'm going to save that picture because I seldom ever make it down that way anymore, not because I'm a fan of button-copy signage -- I'm originally from Pennsylvania, which hung onto its nasty dark green button-copy signs for at least a decade too long before going almost immediately to Clearview -- but because it brings back memories from when I went to Duluth for my weekend fun instead of Buford.

I wouldn't call it magnificent. It's just another boring AASHTO beam bridge.  :-/

Speaking of which, there was a golden age of poured in place trapezoidal box girders in Georgia in the late '70's-early/mid '80's. Many were built under the Freeing the (Atlanta) Freeways program, as well as on the final sections of Georgia's Interstates: I-675, I-575, and a few places on I-185. Now, though, some of them on I-575 are being replaced by AASHTO beam bridges. To me, the box girders are much better looking, and the spans are often very long. I wish that they were more common in Georgia, though they are difficult to widen. IMO, the GA 20-GA 316 bridge would've been a good place to build one, since there was no need to maintain traffic under it during construction and the profile of the new bridge was essentially at grade, which would've allowed the forms to be placed with little falsework.

Here's a Georgia oddity: At the I-185-US 80 interchange in Columbus (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.544199,-84.960613,3a,75y,355.92h,87.49t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sWuyddA60M3W0ZsBoPAV9Dg!2e0), the CD roads for US 80 are on uniform depth steel beams, but the mainline bridges have haunched beams. Wassup with that?

Quote from: Tom958 on May 29, 2014, 04:18:25 AMHere's a Georgia oddity: At the I-185-US 80 interchange in Columbus (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.544199,-84.960613,3a,75y,355.92h,87.49t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sWuyddA60M3W0ZsBoPAV9Dg!2e0), the CD roads for US 80 are on uniform depth steel beams, but the mainline bridges have haunched beams. Wassup with that?

Maybe one overpass is older than the other? Maybe two different contractors did the work? Maybe they reduced the cost after one of the overpasses came in over budget? Could be anything.

Quote from: Gnutella on May 29, 2014, 08:08:10 PM

Quote from: Tom958 on May 29, 2014, 04:18:25 AMHere's a Georgia oddity: At the I-185-US 80 interchange in Columbus (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.544199,-84.960613,3a,75y,355.92h,87.49t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sWuyddA60M3W0ZsBoPAV9Dg!2e0), the CD roads for US 80 are on uniform depth steel beams, but the mainline bridges have haunched beams. Wassup with that?

Maybe one overpass is older than the other? Maybe two different contractors did the work? Maybe they reduced the cost after one of the overpasses came in over budget? Could be anything.

I think the CD bridges were built first. You can see a difference in color between the mainline and the CD bridges-- I think the CD's must be made of weathering steel while the mainline ones are made of higher-strength steel painted brown.

Quote from: lordsutch on May 25, 2014, 01:48:16 PM
FWIW as I get older I'm appreciating APL more; even for younger folks deciphering the stipples at a complex exit or on a wide road can be difficult at highway speeds. I do think FHWA should have adopted the Canadian (or at least Ontario) design that allows omitting the left-hand through lanes to make APL option lane signage simpler, though.

That's right.  The stipple lane signs are OK when the road is no wider than 4 lanes.  But when it's wider, as it is in Metro-Atlanta (especially on the connector) You spend so much time counting lanes to be sure that you are in the correct lane. 

I agree with your suggestion to adopt the Ontario practice.  For the vast majority of exits on a 6 lane freeway, it's usually just the right lane or the right two lanes that will exit.  There is no need for 6 arrows, when the 4 left lanes stay on the main freeway.

Quote from: afone on June 10, 2014, 12:10:52 AM
Also the Interstate 75/Brighton road interchange in South GA will be upgraded.
http://www.walb.com/story/25692096/i-75brighton-road-interchange-to-be-made-safer

That's an enduring mystery for me: how it was decided to do this in some places and not others. Georgia has replaced a whole lot of interchange bridges built in the mid 60's (on I-85 all the way from Barrow County to the SC line, for instance, where every such bridge that hadn't already been widened was replaced in the 00's) but left the pre-1960 bridges on I-75 south of Ashburn or so mostly in place, even through the mega-reconstruction between Valdosta and Tifton. The bridges that were replaced were ones that weren't at interchanges. Replacing the bridges now will be more difficult since the former median has now been appropriated for traffic lanes and shoulders. What was GDOT thinking?

On an unrelated topic, here are those new APL signs I've been ranting about. This one's just south of the Tenth Street bridge. Note that this APL sign doesn't have an arrow per lane.  :spin:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiA4stnw.jpg&hash=d2ce52140b512f7aac7093c7f0b5ea1545f066c0)

And another, the last before the split. There's a third between these two, but my photo of it sucked. To the right is the relatively new offramp to 17th Street, the last portion of which is elevated above the onramp from 14th/16th to I-75 northbound.

I don't like the LEFT placards for exits-- they're redundant when used with indexed exit tabs. With an APL or big arrow sign, they're even more redundant.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FuUeH1HF.jpg&hash=a107e65711b5c9f5c44eaaa34925e01c15cdd40e)

The 75-85 split was built and originally striped for an optional lane-- four for 85, three for 75-- but was restriped to its current configuration decades ago. The fourth lane for 85 is reintroduced on the right just beyond the painted gore. In theory an optional lane would be better, but it wasn't. :confused:

On my way home from work today, I saw what appear to be the new variable speed limit signs on the east side I-285 outer loop between I-20 and Covington Hwy. Not operational yet and currently covered.

How much interest is there among Atlanta residents for there to be a second loop around the metro area maybe 20 miles out from I-285? I'd imagine such a road would be quite popular, but I don't know how residents in the potentially affected areas would feel.

Quote from: Zzonkmiles on July 22, 2014, 09:52:59 AM
How much interest is there among Atlanta residents for there to be a second loop around the metro area maybe 20 miles out from I-285? I'd imagine such a road would be quite popular, but I don't know how residents in the potentially affected areas would feel.

I am not a resident of Atlanta or any of its suburbs but I live close and I would love to see an outer beltway! Atlanta's metro area is growing fast and an outer beltway would be very nice. It could also help traffic that were to get on another interstate in Atlanta. For example, traffic going southbound on I-75 in north GA planning to connect onto I-20 and go westbound into Alabama could take the outer beltway southwest from I-75 to I-20 avoiding Atlanta's city traffic and getting where they need to go. The outer beltway would definitely be something I'd like to see come along, and it has been proposed for decades.

I'm friends with a person who lives in the Atlanta metro on Skype, and they aren't a big fan of the idea.

Quote from: freebrickproductions on July 22, 2014, 06:24:55 PM
I'm friends with a person who lives in the Atlanta metro on Skype, and they aren't a big fan of the idea.

Did your friend give a reason why? I-285 is great and all, but traffic is very slow at times, especially in the northern half of the loop. I think the segment between I-75 and I-85 is the worst. I think a lot of long-distance drivers who don't need to go through Atlanta would be very appreciative. But I also understand that any new highways there would likely come at the expense of existing neighborhoods.

For those of you new to the discussion, check out the beginning of this thread to see more info on the Atlanta Outer Perimeter.

Quote from: Chris on January 28, 2009, 10:42:52 AM
I was thinking about Atlanta, and decided to check it out better on Google Earth. The city's urbanized area is just massive. It generally sprawls 30 miles from the city center in all directions, with some areas being as far as 50 miles from downtown (Gainesville, Canton).

I was wondering, since the suburbanization of Atlanta didn't really stop at the perimeter (I-285), isn't there a need for a second, much larger beltway? I measured it on Google Earth, and came out with this. Remember, some areas would still be outside this second beltway, especially in the north.

Quote from: 2Co5_14 on July 24, 2014, 12:49:21 PM
check out the beginning of this thread to see more info on the Atlanta Outer Perimeter.

This March 5, 2014 article (http://www.ledgernews.com/news/top_stories/gdot-unveils-ga-options/article_929e8cba-a3a9-11e3-8a54-0017a43b2370.html) reports that GDOT has plans to upgrade GA 20 between GA 400 and I-575, but some people suspect the project is actually a revival of the Northern Arc and/or Outer Perimeter:

Quote
The Georgia Department of Transportation (GDOT), with federal highway funds, is planning future, long-term improvements to Ga. 20 that could result in the widening of the existing road or the building of a new road either to the north or the south of the present state highway.
Although, according to draft routing maps released by GDOT, the project roughly parallels the formerly proposed Northern Arc route, GDOT officials said the project is not a resurrection of the northern outer perimeter project (around Atlanta), first proposed in the 1990s. This project, they said, covers only the 25 miles between Interstate 575 and Ga. 400, while the Northern Arc study in the early 2000s stretched from I-575 on the west to Interstate 85 on the east. ....
Robert Chambers, a resident of The Shoals at Arbor Creek and chairman of the Hwy20 Coalition ....
who has a background in business land acquisition, eminent domain and mapping, said, in his opinion, the plan is a resurrection of the Northern Arc.
"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's most likely a duck," he quipped. He said his personal opinion is, looking at Atlanta Regional Commission documents, Ga. 20 is being designed to handle truck traffic in Atlanta between the western and eastern interstates, lessening the burden on Interstate 285, the perimeter highway. He also said he personally thinks the southern route identified by GDOT would serve that purpose the best.

---

Quote from: Tom958 on July 05, 2014, 06:09:14 AM

Quote from: Tom958 on June 22, 2014, 09:12:15 AM
Yeah, everybody knows about the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc. Fighting against it was the last gasp of my career as an activist.
Much of the right of way between GA 400 and GA 316 has long been acquired, and Gwinnett hopes to build its segment as an extension of Sugarloaf Parkway, presumably with no trucks allowed. But there's no funding for that, either. That said, the new bridge carrying GA 324 over I-85 is clearly designed to accommodate CD roads from Sugarloaf Parkway's prospective interchange, so it's more than a gleam in someone's eye.

Here's 324 crossing I-85, headed northbound. The bridge is so huge that I shot only half of it-- it extends so far beyond the treeline at the edge of existing I-85 that I'd need a panorama to show the whole thing. There's an enormous single span of the entirety of existing I-85, plus huge reservations for CD roads on both sides.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FM9Uk26p.jpg&hash=e3c4ef8c8ca9a0fdc25e68f6cea266e83ac78ead)

Quack?

Honestly some sort of freeway on the GA 20 corridor is going to be necessary sooner or later, at least from I-75 to I-85. Probably should have bitten the bullet and done it at the time despite the opposition, although now at least there's a better chance it will be tolled and not get choked immediately.

Quote from: lordsutch on July 26, 2014, 07:56:08 PM
Honestly some sort of freeway on the GA 20 corridor is going to be necessary sooner or later, at least from I-75 to I-85. Probably should have bitten the bullet and done it at the time despite the opposition, although now at least there's a better chance it will be tolled and not get choked immediately.

I agree. The northern suburbs REALLY need it.

Does Anyone know when the variable speed limits are to take effect on IH 285. The signs have been set up on the Jersey barriers. Also, for some reason they are deciding to waste taxpayer money and replace the signage on certain parts of the Interstate (Lavista road, Lawrenceville HWY. Glenwood Dr, etc. The new signage has the larger fonts...

Quote from: Tomahawkin on August 07, 2014, 12:43:54 PM
Does Anyone know when the variable speed limits are to take effect on IH 285. The signs have been set up on the Jersey barriers. Also, for some reason they are deciding to waste taxpayer money and replace the signage on certain parts of the Interstate (Lavista road, Lawrenceville HWY. Glenwood Dr, etc. The new signage has the larger fonts...

GDOT's website (https://www.dot.ga.gov/travelingingeorgia/Pages/VSL.aspx) says they're switching on the new signs in September.

Construction will begin this fall on the $834 million reversible toll lane project in Cobb County. It will add four new exits to the highway and should be complete by 2018. I certainly hope this project, along with its counterpart of the south side of the metro, help traffic on I-75.
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2014/08/834m-reversible-lane-project-to-add-4-exits-in.html

Quote from: afone on August 11, 2014, 09:49:24 AM
Construction will begin this fall on the $834 million reversible toll lane project in Cobb County. It will add four new exits to the highway and should be complete by 2018. I certainly hope this project, along with its counterpart of the south side of the metro, help traffic on I-75.
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2014/08/834m-reversible-lane-project-to-add-4-exits-in.html

Hm. I never knew about that. That sounds like an interesting project.

Another sign goof by a GDOT contractor
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2014/08/downtown-connector-sign-leading-drivers-to-georgia.html

Here's another GDOT classic. Aesthetic issues aside, this sign is also about 1/2 mile before the actual exit ramp  :banghead: :
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Ftv1XzSQ.jpg&hash=a73968652f9e42172295365ee9333cc01f2e5622)


And here's a plug for my latest Georgia-related photo feature (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=13240.0).

How do you like this routing I made of a possible outer beltway in the Atlanta Metropolitan Area. It could be better, it's just like this since I'm zoomed out so far, but still. http://prntscr.com/4evlxf

GDOT.GOV. just mentioned that constuction on the 285/400 Interchange is set to begin in 2016 and could take 46 months to complete. That is a hell of a long time, especially considering all the lane closures that will be involved. Not to mention it has to tie in with the Interchange additions that will supposedly be added to the Cobb Cloverleaf (wont be sufficient enough to handle the game crowds  :banghead:) when construction on the new Braves Stadium gets going...more info at gdot.gov

Quote from: Tomahawkin on August 21, 2014, 10:13:11 AM
GDOT.GOV. just mentioned that constuction on the 285/400 Interchange is set to begin in 2016 and could take 46 months to complete. That is a hell of a long time, especially considering all the lane closures that will be involved. Not to mention it has to tie in with the Interchange additions that will supposedly be added to the Cobb Cloverleaf (wont be sufficient enough to handle the game crowds  :banghead:) when construction on the new Braves Stadium gets going...more info at gdot.gov

Ah, just what metro Atlanta needs... More work on the top end Perimeter.. This is the time they need to get some light rail involved or something besides more pavement.

Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on August 21, 2014, 11:00:52 AM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on August 21, 2014, 10:13:11 AM
GDOT.GOV. just mentioned that constuction on the 285/400 Interchange is set to begin in 2016 and could take 46 months to complete. That is a hell of a long time, especially considering all the lane closures that will be involved. Not to mention it has to tie in with the Interchange additions that will supposedly be added to the Cobb Cloverleaf (wont be sufficient enough to handle the game crowds  :banghead:) when construction on the new Braves Stadium gets going...more info at gdot.gov

Ah, just what metro Atlanta needs... More work on the top end Perimeter.. This is the time they need to get some light rail involved or something besides more pavement.

Big .pdf drawings of I-285 (https://www.dot.ga.gov/Projects/activeprojects/StateRoute/Documents/I285SR400/I-285_at_SR400InterchangeReconstructionPIOHProjectDisplay.pdf) and GA 400 just north of 285 (https://www.dot.ga.gov/Projects/activeprojects/StateRoute/Documents/I285SR400/721850-PIOHDisplay1-SR400CD.pdf)and further north (https://www.dot.ga.gov/Projects/activeprojects/StateRoute/Documents/I285SR400/721850-PIOHDisplay2-SR400CD.pdf), because:

Quote from: GDOTIn order to achieve maximum efficiency, economic benefit and cost-effectiveness for the region, the Department now proposes to construct the two stand-alone projects as one Design-Build-Finance (DBF), Public-Private Partnership (P3). The combined design-build cost is estimated at $1.056 billion.

Well, that's interesting as hell. I guess the whole revive285 thing with HOT lanes and a transit corridor is dead; it doesn't look like they're allowing any room for them. It appears that the existing bridges at Roswell Road and Ashford Dunwoody will remain (though with two lane roadways crammed between the end bents and the abutments), and the mainline striped down to 8 lanes. Oh, well, whaddya want for a billion dollars?

Double post!  :clap:

Another GDOT signage screwup, this one on I-285 eastbound. The exit to 141 southbound has a decel lane (hopefully you can discern the taper) which is incorrectly signed as a lane drop. The one to 141 northbound is a lane drop-- note the solid painted line-- but is signed as optional. The lanes were once striped as the signage indicates, but a couple of years ago, the current (and better) scheme was introduced. As you might have guessed, the old compressed font signage was recently replaced, but apparently the new signs were designed the same as the old ones-- nobody bothered to check the field conditions, even though a GDOT field office is less than three miles away.  :pan:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9BuF0qp.jpg&hash=c9674518c586b5ba6fff5fc665eae0a09566ef6f)

Atlanta.curbed. com (http://atlanta.curbed.com/archives/2014/08/22/a-look-at-the-most-expensive-road-project-in-georgia-history.php) has an article about the 285-400 interchange, and they've posted some better photos.

I already mentioned that the fifty year old bridges carrying Roswell and Ashford Dunwoody Roads over 285 will remain. As I look more closely, I'm realizing to my horror that apparently the bridges carrying I-285 over Glenridge, Peachtree Dunwoody and what is now the northbound roadway of 400 will also remain. I don't see even incidental changes to the layout under the bridges at Glenridge or Peachtree Dunwoody, and the new alignment of the ramp from 285 westbound to 400 northbound appears to be the flattest curve that can be accommodated under the existing bridge carrying 285 once the loop ramp is relocated to between the end bent and the abutment.

Frugality is a Good Thing, of course, but I don't understand how the 285 wing of the project can possibly cost over $700m given the relatively limited scope.  :hmmm:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fatlanta.curbed.com%2Fuploads%2FScreen%2520Shot%25202014-08-22%2520at%25201.13.03%2520PM.png&hash=a316314179ed598b539623a8fd66c733351fab67)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cstatic.net%2Fimages%2Fgridfs%2F53f78304f92ea1400b0153e6%2FScreen%2520Shot%25202014-08-22%2520at%25201.38.26%2520PM.png&hash=f5cd84f4ac6469dec928dda4e46de442547c186f)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cstatic.net%2Fimages%2Fgridfs%2F53f78305f92ea1400b0153f5%2FScreen%2520Shot%25202014-08-22%2520at%25201.38.45%2520PM.png&hash=6b109b296123cd32894eb2d933ac33556b08203e)

Quadruple post!   :clap: I can't help still wanting to talk about 285-400, even if nobody else does. A few observations:

I hijacked those photos from here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=117028495&postcount=9883), and they display better there.

Check out the access from Ashford Dunwoody to GA 400: there's a two lane onramp that continues onto I-285 westbound, and a single lane ramp branches off to join the two lane ramp from eastbound 285 to 400. After a rather short left-side weaving section, the ramp splits: one lane left for southbound 400, two lanes right for northbound. This configuration reminds me of the connection (actually, the lack thereof) between Chamblee Tucker Road and I-85 a few miles east of here (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8873488,-84.253461,678m/data=!3m1!1e3). A similar left-side merge was planned and mostly built, but it was apparently decided during construction that there'd be too much weaving in not enough room and possibly that the unusual decision point on the Chamblee Tucker onramp would lead to confusion and last-second swerving, so the short slip ramp from the Chamblee Tucker onramp to the I-85 ramps wasn't built, and traffic from Chamblee Tucker near I-285 must access I-85 by using surface roads to other service interchanges on I-85. After spending over $1 billion, might the same thing happen here?

The reason that the weaving section is so short is because the flyover ramp from eastbound 285 to southbound 400 needs to be really high. I'm a bit surprised that the ramp is depicted in the rendering as being on fill between retaining walls rather than on structure. I hope that the flyovers will be constructed of something more aesthetically pleasing than AASHTO girders, but based on recent history I'm not optimistic.  :-/

Speaking of that flyover, I think that it'll have to be completed fairly early on. The new mainline bridges for 400 over 285 can't be opened until the existing ramp from eastbound 285 to southbound 400 is out of the way, and at least one of those bridges will need to be open as a detour during demolition and replacement of the existing 400 southbound roadway over 285.

And, speaking of short weaving distances, check out the movement from Glenridge Connector to 400 northbound; two lane changes required in, what, 1000 feet? I wouldn't be surprised if that movement is relocated back to something like its current path.

Next, check out the ramp from eastbound 285 to Ashford Dunwoody Road. It starts west of 400 and continues as two lanes until right before it joins the ramp from 400, at which point it narrows to only one lane. I guess that'll meter the flow into the DDI-- better for traffic to back up on that long ramp than to gridlock the DDI.

There will be no access via 285 or its CD roads between Roswell and Glenridge Roads, or between Peachtree Dunwoody and Ashford Dunwoody. No great loss there, I guess.

Now, back to that ramp from Ashford Dunwoody onto 285 westbound: The 285 mainline under Ashford Dunwoody is only four lanes in each direction, which makes sense because the terminals for the two-lane ramps serving 400 the the Dunwoodies are all well east of there. So far, so good. But the ramp from Ashford Dunwoody adds two more lanes. Only a short distance downstream, there's a single lane drop exit for Roswell Road, which means that eastbound 285 traffic bound for Roswell Road must change lanes twice in a short distance while battling traffic merging left to get on 285-- or staying put to get to Roswell Road. I wouldn't be surprised if the ramp from 285 westbound to Roswell Road ends up being widened to two lanes for its entire length to add an optional lane at the exit from 285 and thereby avoid imposing a double lane change, though that would make life a bit more difficult for 400 northbound to 285 westbound traffic-- unless the extra lane was terminated before the loop ramp from 400 joins the Roswell Road ramp. We'll see, I guess.

The fifth lane of 285 westbound? It just ends somewhere before the onramp from Glenridge.

I'd like to comment more on the 400 sector of the project, but the .pdf's GDOT has posted aren't current-- they don't match the ones for 285.  :pan:

Quote from: adventurernumber1 on August 20, 2014, 10:55:13 PM
How do you like this routing I made of a possible outer beltway in the Atlanta Metropolitan Area. It could be better, it's just like this since I'm zoomed out so far, but still. http://prntscr.com/4evlxf

Just forget about that, lol. This new routing I made is far better. So, how do you like this for an outer Atlanta Beltway: http://prntscr.com/4klfan

And the proposed beltway's only concurrency is with I-75 in Acworth, if you notice.

Quote from: adventurernumber1 on September 07, 2014, 01:24:48 PM
And the proposed beltway's only concurrency is with I-75 in Acworth, if you notice.

This sort of thing belongs in Fictional Highways.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blog/capitol_vision/2014/09/shovel-turned-on-northwest-corridor-project.html

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2014/09/gwinnett-officials-approve-2-08m-for-new-i-85.html

I had an errand to run this evening: from my jobsite at 285 and 75 (actually, very near the new Braves Stadium site) to Cartersville (near downtown) to pick up my new (to me-- it's a 2007) company van, then home to Lawrenceville. What follows is a mini trip report:

The guy who drove me up to Cartersville is maddeningly GPS dependent, and his GPS told him to exit I-75 at Red Top Mountain Road, exit 285. I've driven by there on 75 too many times to count and never thought anything of it: it's just a local road with a four lane dual bridge diamond interchange with 75 in case a whole clump of motels, gas stations and fast food places decided to pop up there. No big deal, right? So we get off of 75, turn left toward 41 and Cartersville, then... right again, though a single quadrant interchange with 41? And Red Top Mountain Road continues west across 41 on a rather high bridge. Wassup with that? Well, it seems that Red Top Mountain Road was recently extended to provide a bypass of Emerson. Check this out: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1224332,-84.7765654,5412m/data=!3m1!1e3 . There's another single quadrant interchange with GA 293 (old US 41), which runs along the railroad. Then the new bypass ties into Old Alabama Road. Follow Old Alabama west, it faintly begs to be extended to GA 113. And a mile or so west of that hypothetical intersection, GA 113 was dualized-- some time ago, given the lack of current-style separated left turn lanes.

I suppose I should've known about this, but it's so nonsensical that I don't feel too bad about not knowing.  :-D

After that, home to Lawrenceville. I could've taken the freeways, but it was sixish, and experience leaving my jobsite at sevenish has taught me that top end 285 is still so jammed at that hour that it's quicker to take 75 all the way to 85 and avoid 285 altogether. Between not wanting to do Cartersville-Lawrencevile via Midtown Atlanta and general roadgeeky curiousity, I decided to take GA 20 instead. As many of you know, there are numerous passing lanes on GA 20, and turn lanes that started out as passing lanes. Between I-75 and Canton, some new ones are being added. Unusually, though, there are several places where there are retaining walls topped with Jersey barriers right at the edge of the new roadway. In at least one place, they're actually on both sides of the road, with only three lanes or so worth of width between them 9I wish now that I'd taken a photo, but it snuck up on me. Maybe next time, lol.). Right-of-way doesn't look especially constrained there-- perhaps they did it to minimize stormwater runoff, since Lake Allatoona is nearby. Still, it seems odd that a section of highway that GDOT tried for years to replace with a freeway is being widened so conservatively, especially considering how much money was blown on the nearly-useless Emerson Bypass.

Not too much to say about the rest of the trip except for the remarkable lack of traffic. Yes, it was sluggish, but the only real congestion I encountered was in downtown Cumming, and that was for only a quarter mile or so. I usually bypass Cumming using Bethelview Road to 141 to McGinnis Ferry, but today I stuck to GA 20. However, in downtown Cumming I spotted what turned out to be Veterans Memorial Blvd (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1891116,-84.15035,5408m/data=!3m1!1e3), a promising-looking five lane road leading southward from downtown, so I took it, and it led me straight into GA 20. Why it isn't signed as GA 20 is a mystery to me.

Widening of the remaining two-lane section of GA 20 between GA 400/US 19 and Gwinnett County is finally underway, though the last sections have only been cleared and silt fenced so far.

Quote from: Tom958 on September 22, 2014, 10:01:28 PM

The guy who drove me up to Cartersville is maddeningly GPS dependent, and his GPS told him to exit I-75 at Red Top Mountain Road, exit 285. I've driven by there on 75 too many times to count and never thought anything of it: it's just a local road with a four lane dual bridge diamond interchange with 75 in case a whole clump of motels, gas stations and fast food places decided to pop up there. No big deal, right? So we get off of 75, turn left toward 41 and Cartersville, then... right again, though a single quadrant interchange with 41? And Red Top Mountain Road continues west across 41 on a rather high bridge. Wassup with that? Well, it seems that Red Top Mountain Road was recently extended to provide a bypass of Emerson. Check this out: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1224332,-84.7765654,5412m/data=!3m1!1e3 . There's another single quadrant interchange with GA 293 (old US 41), which runs along the railroad. Then the new bypass ties into Old Alabama Road. Follow Old Alabama west, it faintly begs to be extended to GA 113. And a mile or so west of that hypothetical intersection, GA 113 was dualized-- some time ago, given the lack of current-style separated left turn lanes.

Still, it seems odd that a section of highway that GDOT tried for years to replace with a freeway is being widened so conservatively, especially considering how much money was blown on the nearly-useless Emerson Bypass.

The project actually isn't just a bypass of Emerson - it will actually serve as the new routing for GA-113 to bypass the much more congested downtown Cartersville.  It will be extended past the end of Old Alabama Rd to the existing GA-113.  There is a significant amount of truck traffic that currently uses the narrow 2-lane section of GA-113 through the residential and commercial section of Cartersville which will benefit from the bypass once it is completed.

Quote from: 2Co5_14 on September 25, 2014, 01:04:28 PM
The project actually isn't just a bypass of Emerson - it will actually serve as the new routing for GA-113 to bypass the much more congested downtown Cartersville.  It will be extended past the end of Old Alabama Rd to the existing GA-113.  There is a significant amount of truck traffic that currently uses the narrow 2-lane section of GA-113 through the residential and commercial section of Cartersville which will benefit from the bypass once it is completed.

I had no idea about that. That sounds like a pretty good idea! What will the old SR 113 become? Obviously it's current concurrency with SR 61 will become at least just SR 61, but what about the stretch near I-75, and the very short stretch in between where SR 61 cuts off south, and where Old Alabama Road meets it. Surely you might know, since you seem to have information about this, and you're also a DOT worker, apparently.

Still seems like overkill to me, though that's hardly a rare thing in Georgia.

Amusingly, I looked at the area on my phone's map thingie this afternoon rush hour, and it showed congestion on Old Alabama where it corners into the bypass. The shortcut from I-75 through Emerson is still popular, it seems.

Quote from: lordsutch on August 07, 2014, 03:54:18 PM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on August 07, 2014, 12:43:54 PM
Does Anyone know when the variable speed limits are to take effect on IH 285. The signs have been set up on the Jersey barriers. Also, for some reason they are deciding to waste taxpayer money and replace the signage on certain parts of the Interstate (Lavista road, Lawrenceville HWY. Glenwood Dr, etc. The new signage has the larger fonts...

GDOT's website (https://www.dot.ga.gov/travelingingeorgia/Pages/VSL.aspx) says they're switching on the new signs in September.

September has, of course, come and gone, and the signs haven't been switched on yet. Apparently it is now scheduled for this coming Sunday, October 5 (http://patch.com/georgia/midtown/variable-speed-limits-take-effect-sunday-top-half-i-285-0#.VCy6QPldXXt).

(FWIW, I can't actually find that exact date on the GDOT website; their page for the project (http://www.dot.ga.gov/travelingingeorgia/Pages/VSL.aspx) just says "October".)

Maybe this belongs in the Traffic Control forum...

Erected yesterday or today, just beyond this fine APL sign...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FCv2ZcNm.jpg&hash=43267ceab40f519817f24eb05f2a2f3928322b66)


...is this. It's located right where the optional lane actually splits, i.e. is 24+ feet wide. So, instead one one big splitting arrow as on the previous sign, there are two big non-splitting ones. It extends the logic of using two black-on-yellow arrows to indicate one compulsory and one optional exit lanes, which I already freakin' hate. And I hate this, too, though I'd be OK with it if the optional lane arrow didn't have an exit only legend:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPoT137I.jpg&hash=ff65a0ac16b525081e4ba8776ae3fe52aa26475c)


EDIT: Here's the previous scheme (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7983259,-84.3960336,3a,37.5y,141.37h,90.85t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sXSgF2Y1LRLqjFRmpx8obWA!2e0), which had issues of its own.

Quote from: Tom958 on October 02, 2014, 07:44:35 PM
...is this. It's located right where the optional lane actually splits, i.e. is 24+ feet wide. So, instead one one big splitting arrow as on the previous sign, there are two big non-splitting ones. It extends the logic of using two black-on-yellow arrows to indicate one compulsory and one optional exit lanes, which I already freakin' hate. And I hate this, too, though I'd be OK with it if the optional lane arrow didn't have an exit only legend:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPoT137I.jpg&hash=ff65a0ac16b525081e4ba8776ae3fe52aa26475c)

As far as I'm concerned, this is erroneous. From the driver's perspective, there are only five lanes here, unless we assume that the driver is looking directly up (i.e. at a 90-degree angle to the horizon) at the sign (though, given Atlanta drivers, I suppose we can't completely discount that possibility). Of course, if we use the split left-straight arrow here, the lane spacing becomes an issue since the option lane is indeed quite a bit wider than a typical lane at this point.

Is there any good reason why the gantry couldn't be moved a couple hundred feet upstream?

Quote from: Eth on October 02, 2014, 08:26:35 PMAs far as I'm concerned, this is erroneous. From the driver's perspective, there are only five lanes here, unless we assume that the driver is looking directly up (i.e. at a 90-degree angle to the horizon) at the sign (though, given Atlanta drivers, I suppose we can't completely discount that possibility). Of course, if we use the split left-straight arrow here, the lane spacing becomes an issue since the option lane is indeed quite a bit wider than a typical lane at this point.

Is there any good reason why the gantry couldn't be moved a couple hundred feet upstream?

Moving the assembly upstream would make it a repeat of the previous assembly, which...

To me, it's advisable to put an overhead sign right where the extra lane begins, as was done with the conventional signage that the new APL replaced. I find this APL to be far less objectionable than the usual sequence:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FcxaBcz9.jpg&hash=698e392560957f1e214c4eb61d06557f44dd0202)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FK8JWdmi.jpg&hash=0a5031e91513aff6962f2aa9478d7c8c8e42c924)


One complication here is that the APL is still desired to indicate a drop-plus-optional exit at 16th-14th-10th Streets a short distance further. Going to conventional signage at the site of this assembly would've prevented that. I'm sure that's why GDOT did what it did here.

(As an added, irrelevant complication, the 16th-14th-10th exit is depicted on the APL signs as two lanes with an optional lane, and I think the lanes are striped accordingly. However, the conventional signage at the exit point bears only one black-on-yellow down arrow, not two. Wassup with that?)

Bottom line, for me: The real issue is the latest MUTCD's insistence on labeling optional exit lanes as dropped lanes, as shown in the Wesley Chapel example above. If they'd go back to one white-one black arrow instead (upward-pointing, please!), and if there wasn't an incorrect EXIT ONLY legend on that post-split arrow on the new APL sign, I would consider this APL sign to be absolutely peacherific.

A good fix for the sign above maybe to use "Toronto" style APL.  (i.e. just having arrow and option arrow for the exit without showing arrows for the thru route.)

In this way you have an APL sign for the 14th Street exit, a green sign in the middle with no arrows saying "75/85 Atlanta" and conventional exit arrows for the exit to I-85 north.

So we're basically signing for the left exit and the right exit and no saying much at all (lane-wise) with respect to the thru lanes.

Besides, the earlier BGS had clearly laid out the pattern, is this sign even necessary over here?

Quote from: mrsman on October 05, 2014, 07:37:06 AMBesides, the earlier BGS had clearly laid out the pattern, is this sign even necessary over here?

No, but then neither are many of the other APL signs that GDOT has been installing, the ones upstream from here being an exception.

There's another new rogue APL sign (no optional lane) on 285 wesbound approaching 75 on the north side. Now that exit sports conventional, one-big-splitting-arrow directional and APL signage.  :-D

I drove the northeast quadrant of I-285 this morning from US 78 to GA 400, and I can confirm that the new variable speed limit signs are now in operation. Well, okay, about two-thirds of them are. With free-flowing traffic as is normal for a Sunday morning, all the signs that were on reflected the new maximum limit of 65 (though some of the old SPEED LIMIT 55 signs remain in place).

i'll just blurt it out: Variable speed limit signs are about the most uninteresting road-related item I can imagine. i'm currently commuting via top end 285, but I'll be astonished if they have any detectable effect on my life. Except...

This morning I was almost thirty minutes late to work, even though I left only ten minutes past my target time, and traffic seemed pretty decent. Must've been those damned signs.  :spin:

Trooper that i am, though, I'll give a report on what i saw: the signs were set to 35 in the congested section between 85 and Ashford Dunwoody, 55 from there to 400 (one pair of signs only) as traffic freed up, and 65 over to 75, which was free flow at the time.

Quote from: Tom958 on October 06, 2014, 07:18:09 PM
i'll just blurt it out: Variable speed limit signs are about the most uninteresting road-related item I can imagine. i'm currently commuting via top end 285, but I'll be astonished if they have any detectable effect on my life. Except...

Haha, fair enough. Really they're only interesting to me because they've never been used in the state of Georgia before. My excursion yesterday wasn't even for the purpose of checking them out; I just happened to be going somewhere that required the use of that part of 285. Considering the only part I use with any regularity is the short segment between US 278 and I-20 on the east side, I wouldn't expect to see much effect either (especially in the morning traveling southbound).

Quote from: Eth on October 05, 2014, 05:33:56 PM
I drove the northeast quadrant of I-285 this morning from US 78 to GA 400, and I can confirm that the new variable speed limit signs are now in operation. Well, okay, about two-thirds of them are. With free-flowing traffic as is normal for a Sunday morning, all the signs that were on reflected the new maximum limit of 65 (though some of the old SPEED LIMIT 55 signs remain in place).

Weren't the speed limit signs on I-285 just suggestions anyway?  Every time I get on I-285, I have to put on my racing gloves.  :bigass:

Quote from: WashuOtaku on October 07, 2014, 11:17:37 AMWeren't the speed limit signs on I-285 just suggestions anyway?  Every time I get on I-285, I have to put on my racing gloves.  :bigass:

Not in my experience. People speed given the opportunity, of course, but it's not crazy.

Having mentioned that, I'm commuting there early enough to arrive at work before seven, just when congestion is starting to bite. And, guess what: with cars speeding up and slowing down erratically and changing lanes to jockey for position, I have better things to keep my eye on than the speedometer. For me, the new variable limits will indeed by just a suggestion.

This morning I saw a sign change from 45 to 35. It was dark for several seconds between. 35, IIRC, is the speed associated with LOS E-- I wonder if they ever go lower than that.

Work begins on Windy Hill improvements
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blog/capitol_vision/2014/10/work-begins-on-windy-hill-improvements.html

There are cranes belonging to the Northwest Corridor joint venture contractor onsite at the 75-285 interchange, too, apparently starting on the flyovers there. That's about to become a busy part of town.

QuoteThe memorandum of understanding approved Tuesday by the Gwinnett County Board of Commissioners will allow the GDOT to include utility relocations as part of the project bid advertisement, the Gwinnett Daily Post reports.
Construction on the $110 million I-85 toll lane extention project is expected to begin in 2015 with lanes opening in 2018.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2014/10/gdot-speeds-construction-of-new-toll-lanes-with.html

When does construction begin on I-75 Toll Lanes in Cobb County? I thought is was supposed to begin in September. They've only been talking about it for 10 years.

Quote from: architect77 on November 09, 2014, 10:38:34 PM
When does construction begin on I-75 Toll Lanes in Cobb County? I thought is was supposed to begin in September. They've only been talking about it for 10 years.

Started last month. See here (https://www.dot.ga.gov/doingbusiness/p3/projects/NWC/Pages/default.aspx) for current info on the project.

Looked to be moving along at a pretty good clip, lots of earth work done on a few interchanges and some exit ramp concrete work done at the same interchange

After seeing the G-Dot renderings of the toll lanes, IH75S (Clayton/Henry), The IH75/575N (Cobb & Cherokee Counties), IH85N (Gwinnett Extension). I don't see much in how that is the Answer to all the traffic issues in the metro area? There are still gonna be major bottlenecks at just about every big interchange with IH285...In fact most interchanges along IH 285 need to be redone not to mention the fact that 285 is still 3 lanes from Buford Highway prior to Spaghetti Junction to just After Chamblee Tucker is baffling. That's one of the worst bottlenecks that exists...

Oh, this poor, neglected thread!    :-(

Quote from: Tomahawkin on November 26, 2014, 11:52:10 PM
After seeing the G-Dot renderings of the toll lanes, IH75S (Clayton/Henry), The IH75/575N (Cobb & Cherokee Counties), IH85N (Gwinnett Extension). I don't see much in how that is the Answer to all the traffic issues in the metro area?

Well, duh. Nobody claims they will be. Look to Texas to see what's needed to keep pace with traffic growth in a growing, sprawly city of five million people:

Quote from: ChrisZwolleTraffic on I-10 in West Houston has grown to become the busiest stretch of freeway in Houston in 2012. The AADT east of the Beltway 8 interchange has exploded to 360,000 vehicles per day. Traffic grew by 100,000 vehicles in just 5 years. If current trends continue, it will become the busiest freeway in the U.S. in a year or two, overtaking I-405 near Long Beach, CA.

There are a variety of reasons why Georgia isn't Texas, but I think it would be reasonably accurate to say that the political center here, such as it is, is squeezed into irrelevance by teabagger cheapskates on the right and Beltline-is-a-great-idea sustainability types on the left.

The new toll lanes will at least add some capacity, and in theory will make it possible, after paying a toll, to traverse much of the metro area reasonably quickly. That's something that now can't be had at any price.

Quote...not to mention the fact that 285 is still 3 lanes from Buford Highway prior to Spaghetti Junction to just After Chamblee Tucker is baffling. That's one of the worst bottlenecks that exists...

Ha, I don't think so. The turning volumes between I-285 to the west and I-85 to the north are huge. All that adding lanes to 285 through Spaghetti Junction would do is exacerbate operational problems without adding any usable capacity.

In that way, 285 westbound dropping to only two lanes as it crosses I-75N is worse.   

Quote from: afone on September 17, 2014, 07:39:19 PM
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blog/capitol_vision/2014/09/shovel-turned-on-northwest-corridor-project.html

I must be old. I can remember my first trip to visit my older stepsister in Canton in 1985. I-575 had recently been opened and there was NOTHING at the GA92 interchange except a brand-new Pilot gas station. I-575 terminated at GA5 on the north side of Canton, and Sixes Road was Exit #6 (wish i would have taken a photo of that before the numbering change).

Come to think of it, I can remember the massive traffic jams that my parents used to encounter when we would drive through Marietta on the way to Ohio to visit relatives. I-75 terminated at Allgood Road, I believe. The backups were epic.

Speaking of Allgood Road:

If I am, indeed, correct and I-75 ended at Allgood, was there an interchange there? I don't remember HOW it ended - or exactly where. But I know that it ended in Marietta prior to opening to Roberts Road (Barrett Parkway) in late-1975 or early-'76. I remember driving on the Roberts Road-to-US411 stretch for the first time in June of 1978 right after I graduated high school.

Yep - I'm old.

Check out Freewayjim on YouTube. He posted that the hot lane bridge posts are coming up and along I-75 in Cobb County. It's going to be interesting to see how it ties into the Cobb cloverleaf interchange. That area is a clausterf..k...

Here's some photos I took today of some Atlanta Freeways.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8626/16356701051_6f8c31b053_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qVonn6)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qVonn6) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7431/16172563647_99c547e5e2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qD7BJg)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qD7BJg) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7338/16332482916_1b60b6f7a5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qTffa3)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qTffa3) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7284/16356701671_af7da9b2f3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qVonxM)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qVonxM) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8582/15736013314_c23a461d04_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pYxbwo)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/pYxbwo) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7348/16357564552_2aa8642e8d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qVsN43)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qVsN43) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7289/16170831088_55abd54a38_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qCXJGy)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qCXJGy) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7372/15738483473_92eeb82331_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pYKQPk)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/pYKQPk) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7326/16332481756_3d5249d71f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qTfeP3)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qTfeP3) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7314/16358442625_2e2b9b0ffe_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qVxi5e)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qVxi5e) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8610/16171080370_5b88c931e5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qCZ1Nw)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qCZ1Nw) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7429/16170830448_e6dbf3cf3c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qCXJvw)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qCXJvw) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7338/16358442225_26ae51c41c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qVxhXk)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qVxhXk) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8642/16172235839_755c46f266_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qD5Whp)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qD5Whp) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8621/16332480646_b3a87aff01_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qTfetU)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qTfetU) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8633/15736010234_c4ae0be8e1_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pYxaBh)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/pYxaBh) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7393/16171079140_6d03d2f99e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qCZ1rj)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qCZ1rj) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8573/16172642219_72f620944a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qD825X)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qD825X) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7385/16172560257_c24c7d61b6_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qD7AHP)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qD7AHP) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7401/16356697841_5fe0a3bdc2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qVompK)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qVompK) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7407/16172560097_ef9825e238_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qD7AF4)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qD7AF4) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7393/16356697441_e46a286821_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qVomhR)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qVomhR) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7414/16358439865_c120999361_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qVxhfD)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qVxhfD) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8669/16172233909_f9597282db_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qD5VH8)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qD5VH8) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8579/16171077400_804b7396a2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qCYZVj)Atlanta freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qCYZVj) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7417/15738479503_c3b7bf61d3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pYKPCT)S.R. 14 Spur (https://flic.kr/p/pYKPCT) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

@afone, that is a very nice collection of pictures! Thank you for sharing!

Quote from: adventurernumber1 on January 24, 2015, 07:20:31 PM
@afone, that is a very nice collection of pictures! Thank you for sharing!

I second that. I had it on my list to take some photos of airport-related signage, but now I don't need to.  :clap:

For anyone who doesn't know, this one is sited beyond the correct exit for the domestic terminals, presumably for the salvation of anyone who missed the exit. It's also beyond the entrance to 85 from the domestic terminals in case anyone needs another stab at terminal return.   :rolleyes: 
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7401/16356697841_5fe0a3bdc2_b.jpg)

Thanks for the replies! I plan on getting photos of I-85 in Gwinnett and show some of the progress on the managed lanes on 75 north and south of Atlanta. One of these days I want to do Augusta and Savannah and show off their freeways.

Quote from: afone on January 24, 2015, 08:07:41 PM
Thanks for the replies! I plan on getting photos of I-85 in Gwinnett and show some of the progress on the managed lanes on 75 north and south of Atlanta. One of these days I want to do Augusta and Savannah and show off their freeways.

Excellent photos! Those APL's on the Downtown Connector southbound are new since I last photographed Atlanta. Probably will get through there again at some point this year.

I was just in Savannah in September and reshot all of Truman Parkway, including the new section opened last year. Beware that northbound turn from GA 204 onto GA 21. It took three cycles to make it through there in the late afternoon.

Thanks for the heads up about Savannah, Alex. If you like Alex, you can use my photos on the aaroads site.

I echo the great pictures sentiment. These are some nice clean shots you took. Great job!  :clap:

I take it any sign using the "D(M)" typeface is older than the ones using EM?

One thing I hated about a lot of the condensed-font signs in Atlanta is the goofy-looking capital 'D.'

As for the new signs, they look better, though the margins on a couple of them seem to be lacking. ('Birmingham' almost didn't fit on one of them.)

I hate the new font, I liked our unique style.

Quote from: Zeffy on January 24, 2015, 10:39:52 PM
I take it any sign using the "D(M)" typeface is older than the ones using EM?

Yep. The font switchover happened sometime around 2008, though I think the EM signs in these photos are even newer than that.

More crappy photos from Tom958.  :rolleyes:

Recent replacement on the northbound 285 ramp to I-85. These signs used to each have a downward-pointing white arrow. With the way the lanes are configured, I'd say that the correct way to do it would be a "next left" legend on the left sign and nothing on the right. That said, the two white down arrows scheme is simply and accurate enough, IMO. I don't know how they decided on this instead.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FRBZ4Hl5.jpg&hash=ddcd0d2db9474fd0bdda59f967b11a909fbdd577)


Two miles further south: let's have way too much information for a change. The previous scheme (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.851498,-84.246613,3a,75y,196.44h,88.16t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s4vpJzS7t6fvIjhEqX7hqPA!2e0) didn't mention anything beyond LaVista until after the LaVista offramp (note the demise of one of the last surviving cantilevered sign gantries in metro Atlanta), but now they've decided that information overload is the way to go. I guess that the perfectly adequate sign for Lawrenceville Highway that's now on the LaVista Road bridge will be removed.  :no:

EDIT: I just noticed that the new signs are for "Lavista" while the old ones were for LaVista." W/E.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fo7bTgLq.jpg&hash=4a58527ec2980bf6c95cfd2ddcc05e0e2c86d772)


And, appropos of nothing, here's one for the ADA Noncompliance Hall of Fame, on Peachtree Industrial near Pleasant Hill Road:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FCwHqkPP.jpg&hash=23f9ca9f8b174865206f9fbc878427c8822e1a18)

Some photos I took today of 85,75,20,285, Stone Mountain Frwy and 400.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8571/16415331755_079f739d07_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r1ySei)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/r1ySei) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8680/16229100299_c76bbabced_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ7o78)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ7o78) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7443/16414395922_beb21ab48e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r1u53f)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/r1u53f) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8677/16414396602_132a5a9b50_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r1u5eY)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/r1u5eY) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7450/15792845504_ac9a0b66f2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q4ysKJ)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/q4ysKJ) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8671/16229101939_9ff1b5b842_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ7oAp)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ7oAp) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7343/16414397292_1ffa3a9b5f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r1u5rS)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/r1u5rS) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8673/15795277683_ac7d7b3f2f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q4LVKR)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/q4LVKR) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8588/16414397802_b1080a0130_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r1u5AE)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/r1u5AE) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7320/16229103039_1fb51f00bb_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ7oVn)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ7oVn) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7344/16227927980_8e1f874842_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ1nBJ)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ1nBJ) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7405/16389357266_9dd906ba1d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qYgJVh)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qYgJVh) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7282/16227679848_fe12621c00_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qHZ6RA)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qHZ6RA) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8619/16227928740_9dd3a41dd5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ1nQQ)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ1nQQ) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8663/16227928950_fff8ae5948_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ1nUs)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ1nUs) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8669/16414399792_106b0b197b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r1u6bY)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/r1u6bY) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7390/16229105139_bae51ab46a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ7pxz)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ7pxz) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7358/16413567491_db7c6e7459_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r1pPLX)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/r1pPLX) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8671/16227929860_67fac45a9b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ1ob9)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ1ob9) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7335/16389359346_07426f4d77_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qYgKx9)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qYgKx9) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8629/15795282013_ee0aef6b14_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q4LX3v)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/q4LX3v) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7304/16414402342_b5cb6350da_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r1u6WW)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/r1u6WW) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7323/15795283203_91a7d33c7b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q4LXp2)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/q4LXp2) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7297/16229108019_ede157a5d3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ7qpe)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ7qpe) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8617/16413571061_f954b3cde4_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r1pQQv)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/r1pQQv) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7371/16229430587_b62dc8a1e9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ95hK)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ95hK) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7423/15792854084_3a9f9ff17c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q4yviE)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/q4yviE) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7371/16415341725_52931883c3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r1yVcc)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/r1yVcc) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8604/16229431607_4c73bfbf35_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ95Ak)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ95Ak) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7312/16415342455_1db44c5f60_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r1yVpM)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/r1yVpM) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7427/16229432147_8df4a8cf52_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ95KD)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ95KD) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8594/16227935440_b75a046d29_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ1pQm)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ1pQm) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7371/16413574011_440f49cb91_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r1pRHn)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/r1pRHn) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8601/16415343225_15027be555_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r1yVD4)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/r1yVD4) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7319/16414406452_a949bc7c32_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r1u8aN)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/r1u8aN) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8616/16229111689_3732cd5c1a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ7ruv)
Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ7ruv) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8582/15792856164_31e363cf22_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q4yvVw)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/q4yvVw) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7322/16229433427_f6fbaf9c7e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qJ968H)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qJ968H) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7452/16389365586_883a6c59f3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qYgMoJ)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/qYgMoJ) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7326/15792856474_a6dff59f6a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q4yw1S)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/q4yw1S) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

Terrific pics.  I have not been to all of these places in the Atlanta metro area.  Lots to see in the future. :clap:

Quote from: afone on February 01, 2015, 12:00:06 AM
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7450/15792845504_ac9a0b66f2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q4ysKJ)Atlanta Freeways (https://flic.kr/p/q4ysKJ) by brandonwalker8402 (https://www.flickr.com/people/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

I think this may be the single thing I dislike most about the new Georgia standard. If we must continue with the "all signs the same height" thing, okay, fine. But could we at least vertically center the destination text? Then it would actually look intentional and not like a manufacturing error.

More horrible cellphone pics by Tom958, this time of the latest (that I know about) rogue APL signs, on I-285 westbound approaching I-75 on the north side. First, here's the first sign of the sequence, just before the New Northside Drive overpass. Note the lack of EXIT ONLY panels:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FvrvNZzH.jpg&hash=c17fa980ea3f8bac2acdf6bf5b67d4d1420f47c1)


The next one. I think it's still about a mile from the split, but there's no indication of that here or on any of the other APL signs. To me that's reason enough not to go 100% APL in a situation like this, even setting aside the lack of an optional lane.

And the joint between the panels is nearly as prominent as the vertical line. I hope the contractor is compelled to address that:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FVhsjJYl.jpg&hash=796f68a7c804d3e8f8d7ee4ab0fd130c5d1eeb7c)


Last sign before the split. It and the one before it go into a little more detail as to where each lane goes. It's not exactly correct, but neither were the old signs, and IMO they're close enough.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FL5BVfve.jpg&hash=cda2ea6936a1c7cf9fa58eece3e7397c78144e54)


From here I turned south to get to Cumberland Blvd. Progress on the hammerhead bents for the reversible HOT lanes is already fairly impressive, but I'd need to stop on the shoulder to get a decent photo.

Last thing: There's a signage boneyard on the northbound side of I-75, and there's a piece of another APL sign there.

As luck would have it, I had a work task in the Perimeter Center area, and while I was there I noticed signs for a GDOT open house about the 285-400 interchange. So I went. The designs have changed since the last time we discussed the project. The biggest and most interesting change is at the Abernathy-400 interchange: After analysis, the SPUI that's been part of the design concept since the nineties has been changed to a DDI! Looking at the the displays, I wondered whether they'd decided to keep the existing bridge there as they're doing without exception on 285, since it looks as though they've gone to some effort to provide two nice, straight four lane roadways through the DDI. I'm told, though, that the existing structure will be removed and replaced:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fl6Pi5M1.jpg&hash=d4c1dbd5262bc49cf8d66b6d91fc30b2b6ec2e6c)


Also note that while the movement from southbound 400 to westbound Abernathy is three lanes (right is north, BTW), the reverse movement is only one lane. Nobody I talked to there seemed to find that odd at all.

The displays from the meeting are said to be online, but I don't feel like looking them up now.   :bigass:

EDIT: http://www.dot.ga.gov/Projects/activeprojects/StateRoute/Pages/I285SR400.aspx

Quote from: Eth on February 01, 2015, 08:25:14 AM
If we must continue with the "all signs the same height" thing, okay, fine. But could we at least vertically center the destination text? Then it would actually look intentional and not like a manufacturing error.

Agreed. TxDOT Houston is doing the same thing nowadays. Seems like such a waste to have a massive sign display one line of text, only for the sake of having it be the same height as its neighbor. I actually think it looks worse having them be the same height.

Quote from: Marc on February 06, 2015, 12:20:56 AM

Quote from: Eth on February 01, 2015, 08:25:14 AM
If we must continue with the "all signs the same height" thing, okay, fine. But could we at least vertically center the destination text? Then it would actually look intentional and not like a manufacturing error.

Agreed. TxDOT Houston is doing the same thing nowadays. Seems like such a waste to have a massive sign display one line of text, only for the sake of having it be the same height as its neighbor. I actually think it looks worse having them be the same height.

Except Georgia doesn't do it consistently, as you can see by scrolling through afone's photos on this page.  :cool:

Who knows? In that particular location maybe they left room for route shields. Believe it or not, Ashford Dunwoody Road is an NHS corridor of some sort.

Nobody said anything about the APL sign photos I posted. My heart is broken. Here's a different view, c/o mundohispanico.com this afternoon:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fepmghispanic.media.lionheartdms.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2F2015%2F02%2F06%2FDSC_0699_t670x470.JPG%3F8e219340208df2a3d052e47766487e5429f45de8&hash=4491cf08ab5760e762991978910bb5f9cfa6bdbb)

Actually, at this point the sign you can't see is more interesting to me, since I'm getting bored with rogue APL's.

Quote from: Tom958 on February 07, 2015, 06:25:52 PM
Who knows? In that particular location maybe they left room for route shields. Believe it or not, Ashford Dunwoody Road is an NHS corridor of some sort.

I look forward to the impending re-extension of SR 260 (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.746685,-84.231081,3a,75y,169.91h,87.22t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sIgllAQwWYDht6BqwYGBT-A!2e0). :sombrero:

Quote from: Tom958 on February 07, 2015, 06:25:52 PM
Actually, at this point the sign you can't see is more interesting to me, since I'm getting bored with rogue APL's.

I think it's pretty much a full-scale addiction for GDOT at this point.

Quote from: Tom958 on February 07, 2015, 06:25:52 PM
Nobody said anything about the APL sign photos I posted. My heart is broken.

Eh, I could have posted.  :coffee: I thought "yet another improper use of an APL by GDOT", and also thought "the first time some nasty straight line winds from a thunderstorm topples one of those monstrous APL gantries, they better start rethinking how large they need to be". Third thing I thought "great...more for me to rephotograph in Atlanta for a future AARoads update."

Updated renderings of the 285-400 project, once more via an article in Curbed (http://atlanta.curbed.com/archives/2015/02/10/details-emerge-for-three-year-1b-gdot-orchestrated-traffic-jam-1.php) c/o a post at skyscrapercity.com (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=121529418&postcount=10304), where they display better. Neither the Curbed writer nor most of the commenters seem to have noticed that the project adds no more than incidental capacity. Admittedly, in light of the $1 billion cost they could be forgiven for the oversight.  :rolleyes:

The first plate actually includes three of the changes I noticed, the most significant of which is the split in the ramp from westbound 285 to southbound 400 to provide an early  entry to the mainline rather than putting all the traffic on the CD as before.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cstatic.net%2Fimages%2Fgridfs%2F54d99784f92ea1189c01ca98%2Fasdfasdfasdf.JPG&hash=ba304ab24b8af99cabb1f303935a5d8c057eeb56)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cstatic.net%2Fimages%2Fgridfs%2F54d9978cf92ea1189c01cab7%2Fasdfasdf.JPG&hash=4df97760d1603fcc7c3d0d6570d30655ce66596c)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cstatic.net%2Fimages%2Fgridfs%2F54d9978ff92ea1189c01cac2%2FCapture.JPG&hash=38746b1656475da023cc709bae85ab4af0ba23f0)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cstatic.net%2Fimages%2Fgridfs%2F54d99786f92ea1189c01caa3%2Fert3r.JPG&hash=ff915cbcf8db9caa3b19f6c938ba7d7823127903)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cstatic.net%2Fimages%2Fgridfs%2F54d99791f92ea1189c01cacd%2Fwerter.JPG&hash=85b8bef9230e623b6b0f59aa848238b81ad14609)

It Looks like putting a Band-aid on a Bullet wound? It looks like they didn't consider at all if future Toll Lanes or a transit system could be added to that corridor...We All know how FUBAR Roswell Rd, and All the other interchange exits between I-H 285 between 400 and 75 are during a 7 day basis. All of it needs to be redone. That 4-5 year construction plan (Im Including the Cobb Cloverleaf interchange as it will correlate with the Braves stadium) will frustrate drivers on a daily basis to no end especially when Construction is in progress. Glad I don't live up there after I considered moving to Sandy Springs a year ago....

Furthernote. I was hoping that they would could consider doing elevated toll lanes on the Top end perimeter between 400-75, But that's decades away probably. I wish Atlanta would emulate Dallas in fixing their traffic issues...SMFH

Quote from: Tomahawkin on February 21, 2015, 01:41:56 AM
It Looks like putting a Band-aid on a Bullet wound? It looks like they didn't consider at all if future Toll Lanes or a transit system could be added to that corridor...We All know how FUBAR Roswell Rd, and All the other interchange exits between I-H 285 between 400 and 75 are during a 7 day basis. All of it needs to be redone. That 4-5 year construction plan (Im Including the Cobb Cloverleaf interchange as it will correlate with the Braves stadium) will frustrate drivers on a daily basis to no end especially when Construction is in progress. Glad I don't live up there after I considered moving to Sandy Springs a year ago....

Furthernote. I was hoping that they would could consider doing elevated toll lanes on the Top end perimeter between 400-75, But that's decades away probably. I wish Atlanta would emulate Dallas in fixing their traffic issues...SMFH

Revive 285 (http://www.revive285.com/index.html) was/is a multiyear effort to consider all of these options, and it built upon work stretching back to the '90's. Their website is high-quality road porn, too, I might add.  :love: The problem with implementing the most aggressive options is, of course, funding. Georgia is a cheapskate state, and nothing will change about that in the foreseeable  future.

That said, I was told that the current concept is configured so as not to preclude the installation of HOT lanes, presumably elevated, at a later time.

I was up in SW Gwinnett earlier today and noticed they Bumped the Speed limit up to 70 past Pleasantdale Road. It seems like they are increasing the speed limits on most metro interstates? Its about time! Also I think The New Braves Stadium will be open before the DDI interchange @I-85 and Jimmy Carter Blvd is completed? I honestly think they should've just redone the whole Bridge like they did the Memorial Dr Bridge @ I-285, 5 years ago...

Quote from: Tomahawkin on February 21, 2015, 06:47:24 PM
I was up in SW Gwinnett earlier today and noticed they Bumped the Speed limit up to 70 past Pleasantdale Road. It seems like they are increasing the speed limits on most metro interstates? Its about time!

Yep, that's right. We touched on this a couple weeks back:

Quote from: dfwtbear on January 31, 2015, 12:04:49 PM

Quote from: xcellntbuy on January 31, 2015, 10:25:28 AM
Many of the speed limit changes were in the process of being upgraded in metro Atlanta, as well.

Here is an article and video on the Atlanta area speed limit changes:
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/traffic/commuter-dude/2015/01/20/faster-speed-limits-in-place-across-metro-atlanta/22062903/

That link also has county-by-county details on the increased limits.

Kudos to afone for uploading those pictures to this forum!  :clap:

Since I'm learning how to recreate these signs [Amateurishly], I'll try to recreate all those signs, probably one or two per day.  :awesomeface:

I'll start that tomorrow since I already did my daily one.  :biggrin:   

I noticed a little something yesterday. See anything wrong with one of these signs?

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7320/16229103039_1fb51f00bb_b.jpg)


Hint: Look at the exit number tabs. There seems to be a glut of exit 31B's.   :wow: Since afone took these photos, the next sign assembly has also been replaced, and the sign for exit 31A had the same issue, though the B- has now been taken down. Here's the old one, just because:

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8588/16414397802_b1080a0130_b.jpg)



I think it hasn't been mentioned yet, but in addition to replacing signs GDOT is also replacing a high proportion of gantries. That includes providing new footings and anchor bolts, which requires off-peak lane closures for work on the median barriers. I've also noticed the GDOT is very much undecided on the question of whether yellow exit only tabs should have a black or white border.  :pan: See apone's post (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=204.msg2038753#msg2038753) for examples.

Does anyone know the history behind those ghost bridge supports at I-285 and Old Dixie Highway. They've always intrigued me. 
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.631458,-84.38884,3a,75y,44.47h,75.49t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sO1g7XihJpfI8LsEEAjiCnw!2e0

Quote from: afone on March 08, 2015, 09:40:32 AM
Does anyone know the history behind those ghost bridge supports at I-285 and Old Dixie Highway. They've always intrigued me. 
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.631458,-84.38884,3a,75y,44.47h,75.49t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sO1g7XihJpfI8LsEEAjiCnw!2e0

Wild guess, but my thought is that they were going to twin up the crossing road and then abandoned that plan.

Quote from: Tomahawkin on February 21, 2015, 06:47:24 PM
I was up in SW Gwinnett earlier today and noticed they Bumped the Speed limit up to 70 past Pleasantdale Road. It seems like they are increasing the speed limits on most metro interstates? Its about time! Also I think The New Braves Stadium will be open before the DDI interchange @I-85 and Jimmy Carter Blvd is completed? I honestly think they should've just redone the whole Bridge like they did the Memorial Dr Bridge @ I-285, 5 years ago...

I think the facade they are putting on the existing bridge is very heavy and my guess is that they stopped that work until they were sure the bridge could handle the extra loads.  They should have gone with a form liner or something more similar to the one at Pleasant Hill.

Another DDI is coming to Georgia, this time at I-285 and Camp Creek Pkwy in SW Atlanta....

QuoteRepresentatives from the Georgia Department of Transportation, city of East Point and Airport West Community Improvement District will discuss plans for a diverging diamond interchange coming to the Interstate 285 bridge over Camp Creek Parkway. Stakeholders can join in a public meeting 6:30 to 7:30 p.m. March 25 at the Courtyard Atlanta Airport West, 2400 Creek Point Dr., East Point.

DDIs are already successfully alleviating congestion in Gwinnett and north Fulton. The unique travel pattern shifts traffic to opposing sides as they cross over expressways, making it faster and easier to complete left turns to access interstates.

The Camp Creek Parkway DDI is expected to cost an estimated $8 million, and construction could begin as early as 2017.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/diverging-diamond-coming-to-airport-area/nkWFF/?ecmp=ajc_social_twitter_2014_sfp

Portable signs announce that the Jimmy Carter-I-85 interchange will be closed next weekend. Could it be that the DDI crossover will happen then? The new traffic signals have been up on mast arms for a while, and the decorative metal thingie seems to be fully erected. Hopefully the long-awaited day will soon be here.  :clap:

I have some photos, too. This one came out better than it had any right to. You have to figure out where it is:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbCzrImO.jpg&hash=dbc678a828da6714820c221654ac4ffed3497a05)


Here's another variation on how GDOT is signing two lane service interchange offramps these days. Lately it seems that GDOT has simply given up on signing said optional lanes at all, but this sign is offset oddly to the left, as though there was to be an arrow to the optional lane but then they chickened out:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FvecbdmD.jpg&hash=08ae0fae7d2581cccd3cb855b9cde872873fdfe7)
Wow, the coloring is weird! I'm far too lazy to have photoshopped it, too. WTF?


Finally, I'd thought that white arrows on the side of lane drop exit signs were being done away with, but here's a newish one. Admittedly, it's a bit older than the new wave of replaced signage, being installed as part of the Hammond Drive interchange addition, but it's still part of the current generation:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FcA0Q62j.jpg&hash=80e5b083dbb41786866a6a26e5eacc557203fb6b)

Quote from: Tom958 on March 14, 2015, 09:04:26 PM

I have some photos, too. This one came out better than it had any right to. You have to figure out where it is:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbCzrImO.jpg&hash=dbc678a828da6714820c221654ac4ffed3497a05)

I-75 and I-285 (north) interchange?

Quote from: Big John on March 14, 2015, 09:18:29 PMI-75 and I-285 (north) interchange?

Yes, from the old loop ramp that still provides access from Windy Hill Road to 285 eastbound.

Quote from: Tom958 on March 14, 2015, 09:04:26 PM
Finally, I'd thought that white arrows on the side of lane drop exit signs were being done away with, but here's a newish one. Admittedly, it's a bit older than the new wave of replaced signage, being installed as part of the Hammond Drive interchange addition, but it's still part of the current generation:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FcA0Q62j.jpg&hash=80e5b083dbb41786866a6a26e5eacc557203fb6b)

The most recent version of the Signing and Marking Guidelines I've seen calls for it to be this way (though I think with a black border around the EXIT ONLY panel). Unfortunately, I can't verify that right now because it's buried in an appendix to the guidelines (http://www.dot.ga.gov/PartnerSmart/DesignManuals/smguide/GDOT%20SIGNING%20AND%20MARKING%20DESIGN%20GUIDELINES.pdf) and the link to the appendix was recently broken.

Those Northside Drive and New Northside Drive Interchanges need a makeover! And has needed a makeover for 20+ years. WTF is the GDOT On, Obviously they don't commute in that area. That area is hell during both Rush Hours. GDOT Is a Effing Joke as well as our Governor. Penny Pitching S.O.B.

They have raised the Speed limit on 400 ITP (South of IH-285) to 65 from 55... Does anyone know why they are raising the Speed limits across the Metro Area? The Public has not been informed about this? What Gives?

Quote from: Tomahawkin on March 15, 2015, 11:05:09 PM
They have raised the Speed limit on 400 ITP (South of IH-285) to 65 from 55... Does anyone know why they are raising the Speed limits across the Metro Area? The Public has not been informed about this? What Gives?

Already discussed; see http://www.11alive.com/story/news/traffic/commuter-dude/2015/01/20/faster-speed-limits-in-place-across-metro-atlanta/22062903/ for ATL-area details.

The short answer is the legislature passed a law a couple of years ago that allowed GDOT to increase freeway speed limits in metropolitan areas, where it's safe to do so, bringing them more into line with practices in other states.

https://www.gwinnettcounty.com/portal/gwinnett/Departments/Transportation/DivergingDiamondInterchanges

QuoteThe Gwinnett County Department of Transportation will close the I-85 at Jimmy Carter Boulevard bridge for the Diverging Diamond Interchange (DDI) crossover. The closure will begin at 9:00pm on Friday, March 20, weather and conditioins permitting. The bridge will open to traffic by 5:00am on Monday, March 23 with the new DDI configuration.

During the weekend construction, drivers should take Jimmy Carter Boulevard to Brook Hollow Parkway to Indian Trail Road to Singleton Road to Jimmy Carter Boulevard and the reverse as their detour.

(https://www.gwinnettcounty.com/static/departments/transportation/images/DDI_rendering.jpg)

In Regards to the Camp Creek Pkwy DDI. That is another example of putting a Band-aid on a Bullet-Wound. There is a Hell of a lot of truck traffic that takes Camp Creek Pkwy West as a short cut to IH-20 going west and Vice Versa. That Should've been made an Interchange with flyovers 20 years ago. Truck Drivers take Camp Creek to avoid the 40 year old Outdated Interchange of IH 285 and IH 20 and will Eff up a DDI with the wide turns (Especially the ones who have never seen a DDI, and don't get me started about the Pedrestrians) . Gotta Love Georgia and the Bass Ackward Planning of Interstates by Those overpaid ####'s at GDOT and in the government. Its On the Level of Arkansas mindset #BackwardBa$$Turds

I have looked without much luck other than some mentions in other articles...is there online somewhere a guide to exactly what was done during the Freeing the Freeways campaign?

Quote from: 6a on March 27, 2015, 03:34:11 PM
I have looked without much luck other than some mentions in other articles...is there online somewhere a guide to exactly what was done during the Freeing the Freeways campaign?

I did some research on the Freeing the Freeways projects through searches in Newsbank and added some stuff on the pages for Interstate 20 (https://www.aaroads.com/guide.php?page=i0020ga), 75 (https://www.aaroads.com/guide.php?page=i0075ga) and 85 (https://www.aaroads.com/guide.php?page=i0085ga).

The Jimmy Carter DDI changeover was aborted due to weather last weekend, but it's in progress now. Interestingly, the ramps to and from I-85 are open,  but only for right turn movements. I suspect that it's less for the sake of traffic flow than it is for avoiding having to deal with issues arising from closing off the lane drop offramps to Jimmy Carter.

Also on my way to work this morning, two southbound right lanes of 285 were closed for installation of a new overhead  VMS, causing an annoying backup.  I think they should try installing them with a helicopter and keep all lanes open. Wouldn't that be a hoot? 😨😨

Quote from: Tom958 on March 17, 2015, 06:23:18 AM
https://www.gwinnettcounty.com/portal/gwinnett/Departments/Transportation/DivergingDiamondInterchanges

QuoteThe Gwinnett County Department of Transportation will close the I-85 at Jimmy Carter Boulevard bridge for the Diverging Diamond Interchange (DDI) crossover. The closure will begin at 9:00pm on Friday, March 20, weather and conditioins permitting. The bridge will open to traffic by 5:00am on Monday, March 23 with the new DDI configuration.

During the weekend construction, drivers should take Jimmy Carter Boulevard to Brook Hollow Parkway to Indian Trail Road to Singleton Road to Jimmy Carter Boulevard and the reverse as their detour.

(https://www.gwinnettcounty.com/static/departments/transportation/images/DDI_rendering.jpg)

As of about an hour ago, the Jimmy Carter DDI is open.  :clap:

EDIT: Image from the Gwinnett DDI Facebook page. As you can see, there's still a lot of work to do.
(https://scontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11083668_825447817538998_1722266100669930874_n.jpg?oh=3a9d548c5957c469c8ef4d507240fe1f&oe=55B9195C)

Looks like the DDI at US 21 off I-77 in Cornelius when it first went up.

Oh, here's a good idea: divert an additional lane of I-285 onto Chamblee-Tucker Road:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FX3WRTae.jpg%3F1&hash=0101e67ef7886394a874e549bc5b7d02f3367159)


Streetview of previous condition (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.873239,-84.249647,3a,75y,359.38h,88.25t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sEgcl6_3KtIoSDgxj9R7Jtg!2e0)
And, yes, I win the Dirty Windshield Award for this month.

For a while, work has been underway on renovation of the shoulder of I-85 northbound between Jimmy Carter Blvd and Indian Trail. This week, mast arms were erected, cantilevering out over the shoulder. I guess that means that the shoulder will be operated as a dynamic lane, open for traffic only during the afternoon peak.

That segment of I-85 is the only one between Chamblee-Tucker and GA 316 not to have an auxiliary lane from the onramp to the next offramp, and for decades it's been the site of the first and last traffic jam of 85's PM rush hour. Its southbound counterpart was added, when?-- in the '90's?-- after the widening from six to ten lanes was completed in '89 or so, to handle heavy inflows from Indian Trail and Beaver Ruin.

The contract for widening GA 400 in Forsyth has been awarded....

QuoteThe design-build project will add one lane in each direction to Georgia 400 from McFarland Parkway north at least as far as Bald Ridge Marina and possibly up to the intersection of 400 and Georgia Route 369, a total of nearly 14 miles.
The work is being funded through a bond referendum Forsyth County voters approved last fall.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blog/capitol_vision/2015/05/georgia-dot-awards-contract-for-georgia-400.html

Quote from: afone on May 01, 2015, 05:59:43 PM
The contract for widening GA 400 in Forsyth has been awarded....

QuoteThe design-build project will add one lane in each direction to Georgia 400 from McFarland Parkway north at least as far as Bald Ridge Marina and possibly up to the intersection of 400 and Georgia Route 369, a total of nearly 14 miles.
The work is being funded through a bond referendum Forsyth County voters approved last fall.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blog/capitol_vision/2015/05/georgia-dot-awards-contract-for-georgia-400.html

Interesting. I wonder if Forsyth County is paying for it outright or just fronting the money. I'd think the latter, but during my days as an activist in Gwinnett, I was told that GDOT tended not to keep their word on advance funding arrangements.

Also, I've never seen a road contract let for "... at least as far as... and possibly up to..."  The difference looks like about three miles, which is big to do as a change order.

In unrelated news, APL signage is going up on the eastbound approach to Spaghetti Junction.

It was noted during the week that they are going to expand the MARTA Rail Line to Windward Pkwy??? Im curious in how the lane expansion and MARTA Construction will affect traffic. That area is Hell during rush hours without the construction

Quote from: Tomahawkin on May 02, 2015, 04:38:12 PM
It was noted during the week that they are going to expand the MARTA Rail Line to Windward Pkwy??? Im curious in how the lane expansion and MARTA Construction will affect traffic. That area is Hell during rush hours without the construction

Any MARTA extension along GA 400 is years off; there's no funding in place for it. See https://www.facebook.com/Connect400 or http://www.itsmarta.com/north-line-400-corr.aspx for more details.

Besides which, any extension would end south of where GA 400 is being widened, although GDOT does eventually want to add some sort of managed lanes to 400 (probably similar to the I-75/575 NW managed lanes project) too.

Soul singer Gladys Knight now has a road in Atlanta named after her:
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/forget-that-midnight-train-georgia-now-has-a-glady/nmBXH/

Quote from: Henry on May 07, 2015, 01:50:50 PM
Soul singer Gladys Knight now has a road in Atlanta named after her:
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/forget-that-midnight-train-georgia-now-has-a-glady/nmBXH/

Excellent!

Quote from: DeaconG on May 07, 2015, 10:12:38 PM

Quote from: Henry on May 07, 2015, 01:50:50 PM
Soul singer Gladys Knight now has a road in Atlanta named after her:
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/forget-that-midnight-train-georgia-now-has-a-glady/nmBXH/

Excellent!

Except that "A portion of the city's State Route 9 from Peachtree Street to 14th Street" would mean West Peachtree northbound and Spring Street southbound. WTF?

In other incredibly selfish and irrelevant news, I was wondering how the plane crash on 285 directly on the way from my workplace to my house would affect my commute. As it happened, the timing was perfect for me. I got on 285 after the road was reopened but before the news got around, and I blew through the crash site at 65mph. Normally, that spot would've been totally congested by that time.

I do not know if it was a normal get out, south-of-Atlanta mass exodus this Friday afternoon, but the traffic was solid for miles and miles on Interstate 75 as far as the midpoint between Atlanta and Macon.  I have not seen so much traffic since I fled south Florida.  Loved those empty clay hills and the Oconee National Forest from GA 16 east after leaving the highway and back to the solace of the quaint antebellum capital of Milledgeville.

Having once lived in the metro, Fridays seemed to be the worst day for traffic.

Did GDOT ever reroute US 19 onto Piedmont RD as planned or is that shelved or on hold?

Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on May 13, 2015, 10:51:29 AM
Did GDOT ever reroute US 19 onto Piedmont RD as planned or is that shelved or on hold?

I drove Peachtree crossing Piedmont yesterday, and saw only GA 237 signs as usual.

Thursday I drove from ATL to Chattanooga and back, took a few photos which I might upload once I get my imgur account issues resolved. Some observations:

The Union Grove Road interchange (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.441528,-84.9175331,634m/data=!3m1!1e3) is approaching completion. The shrouding had come off of one of the new BGS'--I wondered idly if they'd bother putting it back on.

The GA 156 interchange (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.5115138,-84.918141,632m/data=!3m1!1e3) is under major reconstruction, with the I-75 bridges over 156 being replaced and the ramps being lengthened. the latter is especially welcome to me because... while Georgia is generally consistent about applying whatever design standards prevail at the time of construction, I-75 in north Georgia seems inconsistent to the point of outright inadequacy when it comes to length and configuration of on- and offramps.

At the US 41/76 interchange on the north side of Dalton (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7942581,-85.0026465,531m/data=!3m1!1e3), it appears that a ramp is being added in the northwest quadrant. I can't tell whether it'll replace or merely supplement the existing loop, though as close to the interchange bridge as it is, I'd guess the latter. Next time I'm up that way I'll get off and have a look around. Or I could see if I can find the project concept report online...  :eyebrow:

Finally for now, the Northwest Corridor Project flyover looks impressive at the Canton Road Connector and Barrett Parkway interchanges, but there's disturbingly little activity anywhere else.

Double post. Your concerns are duly noted.

I-75 southbound within the Canton Road Connector interchange:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FK4VVNwO.jpg&hash=1b90d50b91d8e9b3033dda2486d5301f566b08c0)


I-75 northbound approaching Barrett Parkway. This is the flyover that deposits the new reversible lane into the median:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhZEvwdj.jpg&hash=37a3fed05858b53eccbe139cb233a4a130d16fee)


And, finally, I've been meaning for years to get a photo of this. I'm resisting the urge to make vulgar comments:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FM8aVpQK.jpg&hash=da320863a382448bba5fd384f56e526afee0e448)

^^^Oh, go ahead, you know you want to...

Quote from: DeaconG on May 19, 2015, 05:14:00 PM
^^^Oh, go ahead, you know you want to...

Don't.  We do have people under 16 here on the forums.  If you must, say it in your head, just not here on the forums.

The Feds have given the green light to the GA 400/285 interchange makeover...

QuoteThe Federal Highway Administration has given the green light to the planned $1.1 billion makeover of the Interstate 285/Georgia 400 interchange.
The agency notified the Georgia Department of Transportation last week it has approved environmental-impact studies on the project, clearing the way for the DOT to hire contractors and begin construction.


"This is an amazing win for our team to be able to obtain approved environmental documents in such a short time frame,"  Georgia Commissioner of Transportation Russell McMurry said. "I am confident that we will continue that positive trend as we move forward with the project."

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blog/capitol_vision/2015/05/georgia-400-interstate-285-overhaul-ok-with-feds.html

Clogged drains flood, shut down Downtown Connector:

http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/downtown-connector-closed-due-to-flooding/nmRtQ/

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on May 21, 2015, 02:51:25 AM

Quote from: DeaconG on May 19, 2015, 05:14:00 PM
^^^Oh, go ahead, you know you want to...

Don't.  We do have people under 16 here on the forums.  If you must, say it in your head, just not here on the forums.

The under 16 crowd could probably teach us a thing or two

Quote from: golden eagle on May 31, 2015, 06:56:16 PM
Clogged drains flood, shut down Downtown Connector:

http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/downtown-connector-closed-due-to-flooding/nmRtQ/

And, just 100 miles southeast in the antebellum capital it was as dry as a bone almost all weekend, for the last few weeks, in fact.  Atlanta metro really has gotten socked with heavy rain this spring.

Pretty soon, there'll be even more DDI's around Atlanta:
http://commuting.blog.ajc.com/2015/06/08/more-diverging-diamond-interchanges-planned-for-metro-area/

Quote from: Henry on June 08, 2015, 06:36:09 PM
Pretty soon, there'll be even more DDI's around Atlanta:
http://commuting.blog.ajc.com/2015/06/08/more-diverging-diamond-interchanges-planned-for-metro-area/

Hopefully this will solve congestion slightly.

Five more miles of flex shoulder lanes are opening Monday on GA 400

QuoteThe northbound flex shoulder lanes will begin at Abernathy Road to the MARTA North Springs Station; MARTA North Springs Station to Northridge Road; and SR 120/ Old Milton Parkway to Windward Parkway, GDOT said in a prepared statement.

Georgia 400 southbound commuters will have one more mile of flex shoulder lane to use during peak travel hours. The new lane will start at the MARTA North Springs Station and end at Abernathy Road, GDOT said.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2015/06/five-more-miles-of-georgia-400-flex-shoulder-lanes.html

QuoteA planned $1.1 billion overhaul of the Interstate 285/Georgia 400 interchange moved an important step forward Wednesday when a State Transportation Board committee signed off on the project.
The committee with jurisdiction over the agency's public-private projects unanimously approved a resolution committing up to $907 million toward the work — $838 million in estimated construction costs plus contingencies. The full board is expected to approve the resolution Thursday.

"This is a historic day,"  committee Chairman Rudy Bowen said. "We're acting on ... the biggest [highway] project ever in Georgia."

Actually two projects under a single contract, the work will involve rebuilding the I-285/Georgia 400 interchange to include multiple flyover ramps. Improvements along I-285 will extend from the Roswell Road exit east to the Ashford-Dunwoody Road exit, including flyover ramps.
The project also calls for new northbound and southbound collector-distributor lanes along Georgia 400 from I-285 north to Spalding Drive, including a stretch of non-tolled, barrier-separated lanes on the outside of the highway's existing lanes.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blog/capitol_vision/2015/06/i-285-georgia-400-interchange-makeover-gets-go.html

I found this project on GDOT website for July 2015 lettings. The project calls for separating all of the I-285 traffic from I-20 EB traffic before the ramp. GDOT will do this by modifying the lane configuration and putting up lane barriers similar to the ones GDOT recently installed on the I-85 HOT lanes. While this project will be beneficial, I feel it is nothing more than a band aid on a bullet wound. That whole interchange needs to be redone.
Here are some renderings of the project:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/509/18755116590_a97c2be8bc_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uzjSK9)i-20i-285interchange3 (https://flic.kr/p/uzjSK9) by brandon walker (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/415/18756556019_b442582165_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uzsfCT)i-20i-285interchange2 (https://flic.kr/p/uzsfCT) by brandon walker (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/406/18942747365_0fe18a5ee4_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uRUwQv)i-20i-285interchange1 (https://flic.kr/p/uRUwQv) by brandon walker (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125122378@N05/), on Flickr

Link to project:http://www.dot.ga.gov/BuildSmart/Projects/Pages/TransPi.aspx?ProjectID=0011828

That I-20 Interchange Needs a Total Overhaul, In fact both Interchanges with I-20 and 285 (east and west parts of Atlanta) need to be Redone and have needed an overhaul for 20 years. I hope those will be addressed after the 285-400 Interchange Project. I seriously wonder what does the money that the 85 toll lanes Hustle goes to because it hasn't Done #### to address the traffic issue in Gwinnett for that matter...I have been up there the last few days and The Traffic is Worse around Spaghetti Junction. Its F.U.B.R.

Agreed.  I am only familiar with the eastern side of Atlanta Interstate 20 and 285 interchange.  It is in a heavily wooded area and development is close to the exit ramps.  Interstate 20 has many sound walls in both directions and, at 6 lanes, Interstate 20 is in need of at least one more lane on the eastern side of the exits.  It would be quite a challenge to upgrade.

Quote from: afguy on June 18, 2015, 11:49:30 PM
I found this project on GDOT website for July 2015 lettings...

Link to project:http://www.dot.ga.gov/BuildSmart/Projects/Pages/TransPi.aspx?ProjectID=0011828

And,of course, the project concept report (https://gtas.dot.ga.gov/0011828/Concept%20Reports/0011828_CR_OCT2014.pdf). As the visuals you prepared show, the signage plan shows two lanes for I-20 and two for 285 while the typical sections, concept diagrams (and the written project description) show three for 20 and one for 285. WTF?

I did find this:

QuoteIn terms of the safety of the alternatives, there was some concern with reducing the
shoulder widths, especially the outside shoulder if a barrier is installed. If an accident
does occur inside the barrier, would an emergency vehicle be able to access the
accident and would the ramp be completely shut down? By only striping two through
lanes for I-20 across the bridge, a 6' inside shoulder could be used with 2-12' lanes, a
6' barrier/shoulder, a 12' EXIT-ONLY lane and a 6' outside shoulder. This would leave
enough room to access any problems inside the barriers.

So, will the I-20 mainline be two lanes, or three?   :hmmm:

Will wonders never cease? Before I complained:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9BuF0qp.jpg&hash=c9674518c586b5ba6fff5fc665eae0a09566ef6f)


And today:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FEAVxq3x.jpg&hash=78d99224ec5b17c144f93ee4c2a6169b8ea1d844)


Yay, me!  :clap:

They still need to take the exit only tab off of the 141 south sign. We'll see how that goes.

Not as cool as talking GDOT into removing and completely redoing an entire sign gantry less than a mile from here as I did in 1988, but still. And, my brother apparently got them to turn off a ramp meter that was blocking surface street traffic, too. He even got a politely-worded reply, something they haven't seen fit to do for me as yet.

http://www.dot.ga.gov/BS/Projects/ProjectSuggestion

I took my first trip across metro Atlanta westbound on Interstate 20.  Traveled as far west as Villa Rica (exit 30).  My new home state desperately needs to rehabilitate the pavement on Interstate 20, all lanes and both directions.  It is deeply rutted with many rough squares.

The eastern side of Interstate 20 from the Fulton County line east to Exit 113 in Madison is wonderfully smooth.  At Exit 113, the concrete returns and also needs work.  I have only traveled as far east as Exit 114 to return southbound to the antebellum capital.

Quote from: xcellntbuy on June 30, 2015, 07:15:54 PM
The eastern side of Interstate 20 from the Fulton County line east to Exit 113 in Madison is wonderfully smooth.  At Exit 113, the concrete returns and also needs work.  I have only traveled as far east as Exit 114 to return southbound to the antebellum capital.

Trust me. You don't want to go any further east than that. That section of I-20 until around MM 185 near Augusta is seriously majorly 100% certifiably boring. You have been warned!

One of these days, I will probably have to take a trip east on Interstate 20 to Augusta since my employer has its oldest satellite campus in Martinez.

The contract for the I-85 HOT lanes extension has been awarded...

QuoteA contract for $139.6 million was awarded Tuesday to the Marietta-based road contractor to design and build a 10-mile extension of the existing I-85 HOT lane in Gwinnett County, the Georgia Department of Transportation announced. That means drivers will be able to bypass congestion on the heavily traveled northeast Atlanta corridor for a far longer stretch.

The project involves construction of a single toll lane in each direction between Old Peachtree Road and Hamilton Mill Road.

http://commuting.blog.ajc.com/2015/07/07/140-million-contract-awarded-for-i-85-hot-lane-extension/

Quote from: xcellntbuy on July 01, 2015, 07:14:20 PM
One of these days, I will probably have to take a trip east on Interstate 20 to Augusta since my employer has its oldest satellite campus in Martinez.

Lucky you. When you do, maybe you could check this out (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.51059,-82.508222,3a,75y,103.79h,80.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1st0_f9TtMsyq4alX0Dzb9FQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656): At Thomson, where US 78 and GA 17 cross I-20, the signage on I-20 doesn't mention US 78. WTF? I emailed them about it a while back, but as you can see from GSV, the omission wasn't fixed, and least not as of December 2014. OTOH, the signage hasn't been replaced, either; maybe they'll do it then.

The dynamic lane on I-85 northbound between Jimmy Carter and Indian Trail is open, but so far motorists are reluctant to use it, I guess since it still looks unfinished-- there are a couple of orange barrels lying around, and the mast arms for overhead signage are still unused, with electrical wires sticking out of them. As it stands now, signs say that the lane is open from 3 to 7pm, with a 45 mph speed limit. I was there yesterday at 4:40 or so, doing 35-40mph in the regular lanes, and I saw only one car using it as intended, though in fairness the merge from JCB onto 85 was less congested than usual.

I have some photos, but I don't like them. Maybe I'll get some better ones in the near future.

Steel going up at the Northwest Corridor and 285:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FgvcsU7m.jpg&hash=21c25be766c319349fc2d6f6920feb1f2a9e7adc)

Quote from: Tom958 on July 08, 2015, 06:34:32 PM
Steel going up at the Northwest Corridor and 285:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FgvcsU7m.jpg&hash=21c25be766c319349fc2d6f6920feb1f2a9e7adc)

I went through that area on the way to vacation a week ago. It is really good and alot of progress has been made for it. It is even more interesting to see the I-285/I-75 interchange modified for this.

Quote from: xcellntbuy on June 30, 2015, 07:15:54 PM
I took my first trip across metro Atlanta westbound on Interstate 20.  Traveled as far west as Villa Rica (exit 30).  My new home state desperately needs to rehabilitate the pavement on Interstate 20, all lanes and both directions.  It is deeply rutted with many rough squares.

The eastern side of Interstate 20 from the Fulton County line east to Exit 113 in Madison is wonderfully smooth.  At Exit 113, the concrete returns and also needs work.  I have only traveled as far east as Exit 114 to return southbound to the antebellum capital.

It had been since around 2009 or so since I had driven I-20 west of Atlanta into Alabama. I was surprised that the six lane stretch extended as far west as Villa Rica, but I guess I just didn't remember where it started. I wonder if the six lanes will be eventually extended west to match Alabama's work to six lane I-20?

Interesting question, indeed.  Given the recent federal funding issues and the changes to the Georgia gasoline tax, I would hope that priority will go toward fixing what Georgia already has built.  Apparently, the higher priority is build more HOT lanes on Interstate 75 south of Atlanta, not fix the horribly deteriorated pavement on Interstate 20.  There are also some rutted sections of Interstate 285 that need work, too, not to mention some mighty deep ruts on the Downtown Connector in Atlanta (Interstates 75 and 85), blocks from the Capitol.

From all indications I have read in my new home State, Georgia's government is really tight with a buck.

Quote from: xcellntbuy on July 22, 2015, 09:08:20 PM
Interesting question, indeed.  Given the recent federal funding issues and the changes to the Georgia gasoline tax, I would hope that priority will go toward fixing what Georgia already has built.  Apparently, the higher priority is build more HOT lanes on Interstate 75 south of Atlanta, not fix the horribly deteriorated pavement on Interstate 20.  There are also some rutted sections of Interstate 285 that need work, too, not to mention some mighty deep ruts on the Downtown Connector in Atlanta (Interstates 75 and 85), blocks from the Capitol.

From all indications I have read in my new home State, Georgia's government is really tight with a buck.

Maintaining what they already have should be the first priority over any capacity addition projects, at least in most cases. Due to the funding crunch, that is the mode that Alabama is currently in.

The "HOT lanes" (actually, there's no HOV component, so they're just express lanes) have a separate funding source: bonds issued to be paid by the expected toll revenue. Maintenance has to come from the gas tax and the various other fees/taxes the legislature put in place this year ($5/night hotel tax, annual $200 AFV fee, etc.).

Quote from: Chris on January 28, 2009, 10:42:52 AM
I was thinking about Atlanta, and decided to check it out better on Google Earth. The city's urbanized area is just massive. It generally sprawls 30 miles from the city center in all directions, with some areas being as far as 50 miles from downtown (Gainesville, Canton).

I was wondering, since the suburbanization of Atlanta didn't really stop at the perimeter (I-285), isn't there a need for a second, much larger beltway? I measured it on Google Earth, and came out with this. Remember, some areas would still be outside this second beltway, especially in the north.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi39.tinypic.com%2F2yoep0l.jpg&hash=06f0e82b80ae2a77fa5a0e30b81d47a19fee7c0f)

I know its been its been 6 years since this statement. But I would call the second beltway Interstate 485

Quote from: InterstatesRules445 on July 23, 2015, 09:21:14 PM
I know its been its been 6 years since this statement. But I would call the second beltway Interstate 485

Other than who's going to pay for it, the idea of a second beltway isn't beneficial to the city of Atlanta being so far out.  Also, why pick I-485, which exists close by in North Carolina, when they can use numbers like I-420 and I-620, which don't exist.

Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 23, 2015, 10:57:44 PM
like I-420

High schoolers and college kids alike will go to great lengths to continuously steal an I-420 shield if it were ever real.

Quote from: Zeffy on July 23, 2015, 11:03:56 PM

Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 23, 2015, 10:57:44 PM
like I-420

High schoolers and college kids alike will go to great lengths to continuously steal an I-420 shield if it were ever real.

(For those who are unaware regarding modern lingo, 4-20 is another way of saying marijuana. But I'd love to see an I-220 someday because I don't think I-20 has any beltways along its route at all.)

Also, a second beltway would probably be more useful for long-distance commuters who are trying to bypass the city. Its usefulness to locals would be quite limited, I'd imagine.

Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 23, 2015, 10:57:44 PM

Quote from: InterstatesRules445 on July 23, 2015, 09:21:14 PM
I know its been its been 6 years since this statement. But I would call the second beltway Interstate 485

Other than who's going to pay for it, the idea of a second beltway isn't beneficial to the city of Atlanta being so far out.  Also, why pick I-485, which exists close by in North Carolina, when they can use numbers like I-420 and I-620, which don't exist.

Neither do I-275 or I-875 in GA.

Quote from: InterstatesRules445 on July 23, 2015, 09:21:14 PM

Quote from: Chris on January 28, 2009, 10:42:52 AM
I was thinking about Atlanta, and decided to check it out better on Google Earth. The city's urbanized area is just massive. It generally sprawls 30 miles from the city center in all directions, with some areas being as far as 50 miles from downtown (Gainesville, Canton).

I was wondering, since the suburbanization of Atlanta didn't really stop at the perimeter (I-285), isn't there a need for a second, much larger beltway? I measured it on Google Earth, and came out with this. Remember, some areas would still be outside this second beltway, especially in the north.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi39.tinypic.com%2F2yoep0l.jpg&hash=06f0e82b80ae2a77fa5a0e30b81d47a19fee7c0f)

I know its been its been 6 years since this statement. But I would call the second beltway Interstate 485

I like your beltway.

There's a lot of demand for east-west travel in the northern suburbs that really isn't well-accommodated, which is part of the reason the "top end" of I-285 between I-75 and I-85 east is such a mess. NIMBYs were able to bury the Northern Arc back in the late 1990s, but the current GA 20 study (along with the relocated GA 20 near Cartersville to finish the corridor to Rome) is almost certainly going to resurrect it in some form. Of course, there's no money for it so it'll almost certainly have to be tolled.

Im All In for a Toll of a out perimeter like Houston has done with theirs (Not sure if its tolled but I believe it is). The Infrastructure is sooo Fubar out here Most of the interchanges along I-285 for example are outdated by 20-25 years, especially the interchanges with IH-20

Quote from: Zzonkmiles on July 24, 2015, 06:12:41 AM
Also, a second beltway would probably be more useful for long-distance commuters who are trying to bypass the city. Its usefulness to locals would be quite limited, I'd imagine.

Who the hell needs to commute from one extreme side of Metro Atlanta to the other?  I'm guessing maybe a few, but by no means a large number of people; typically a person moves closer to the place they work, not drive from Chattanooga to Macon to work at Hardees.  :spin:

Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 24, 2015, 07:32:08 PM

Quote from: Zzonkmiles on July 24, 2015, 06:12:41 AM
Also, a second beltway would probably be more useful for long-distance commuters who are trying to bypass the city. Its usefulness to locals would be quite limited, I'd imagine.

Who the hell needs to commute from one extreme side of Metro Atlanta to the other?  I'm guessing maybe a few, but by no means a large number of people; typically a person moves closer to the place they work, not drive from Chattanooga to Macon to work at Hardees.  :spin:

Jobs are so limited these days you might just have to make that commute! :colorful:

It's been 40 some odd years, but I think it was slated as I-875.

Quote from: Zzonkmiles on July 24, 2015, 06:12:41 AM
But I'd love to see an I-220 someday because I don't think I-20 has any beltways along its route at all.)

There is an I-220 in Jackson, MS and Shreveport, LA and there is an I-820 in Fort Worth, TX.

I wouldn't mind seeing I-220, though. Or an I-620.

Quote from: codyg1985 on July 26, 2015, 03:53:14 PMI wouldn't mind seeing I-220, though. Or an I-620.

Yeah. In Augusta.  :clap:

What I would mind seeing is more mostly-clueless musings about the Outer Perimeter in this thread. I wish someone would start a new thread about it rather than continue to muck up this one.  :pan:

Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on July 24, 2015, 07:35:39 PM

Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 24, 2015, 07:32:08 PM

Quote from: Zzonkmiles on July 24, 2015, 06:12:41 AM
Also, a second beltway would probably be more useful for long-distance commuters who are trying to bypass the city. Its usefulness to locals would be quite limited, I'd imagine.

Who the hell needs to commute from one extreme side of Metro Atlanta to the other?  I'm guessing maybe a few, but by no means a large number of people; typically a person moves closer to the place they work, not drive from Chattanooga to Macon to work at Hardees.  :spin:

Another Outer perimeter is necessary for all of the Truck Traffic as well as all the traffic that goes through Atlanta to either get to Florida, The Beaches in the Carolinas as well as the gambling spots in Southern Mississippi. Living in Downtown Atlanta now, I see so many people going to and from Florida on weekends its insane especially on Fridays when the rush hour starts at 1pm out here....

Crossposted from Erroneous Road Signs, where, to my amazement, no one said anything about it.  :hmmm:

QuoteYou may remember this from a few months ago, with the two lanes of I-285 seemingly directed onto Chamblee Tucker Road:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FX3WRTae.jpg%3F1&hash=0101e67ef7886394a874e549bc5b7d02f3367159)


Now it has a brother downstream, which I saw for the first time yesterday, and which I'd driven past by the time I realized how epic the fail I'd just witnessed was.  :wow: Today, it's my gift to all of you:   :clap:

Spoiler below...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FcSSLBvb.jpg&hash=35c8b76bf729698391d491c0671ffee3d0ceccfa)


The split arrow is over the fifth lane on the new sign. The fourth lane is the one that splits, as shown correctly on the previous sign.   :pan:

Quote from: Tom958 on August 05, 2015, 05:35:07 AM
Crossposted from Erroneous Road Signs, where, to my amazement, no one said anything about it.  :hmmm:

QuoteYou may remember this from a few months ago, with the two lanes of I-285 seemingly directed onto Chamblee Tucker Road:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FX3WRTae.jpg%3F1&hash=0101e67ef7886394a874e549bc5b7d02f3367159)


Now it has a brother downstream, which I saw for the first time yesterday, and which I'd driven past by the time I realized how epic the fail I'd just witnessed was.  :wow: Today, it's my gift to all of you:   :clap:

Spoiler below...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FcSSLBvb.jpg&hash=35c8b76bf729698391d491c0671ffee3d0ceccfa)


The split arrow is over the fifth lane on the new sign. The fourth lane is the one that splits, as shown correctly on the previous sign.   :pan:

It's southbound cousin appears correct, as of last Friday:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3725/20405158336_f1013217c2_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/x68LEL)

But...I-285 can't seem to make up its mind which direction it wishes to be signed.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/486/20405158946_53eb156983_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/x68LRh)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3825/20244765369_45406be5a4_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/wQXHqM)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/335/20405158016_cdc6fe04f4_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/x68Lzf)

At least it's consistent on I-75...right?

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3739/20422743802_ff0d689fdd_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/x7FUds)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/303/20422743742_3e5b7e45ca_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/x7FUcq)

Those new Interstate BGS are getting bigger and bigger in my new home State.  Reminds me of the ever larger BGS behemoths on the Florida's Turnpike that were erected for the new exit 54 system of HOT lanes for Interstate 595 before I fled for Georgia last August. :wave:

Those cardinal directions on the 675 sign don't look to spec.  Am I right or am I just seeing things?

Quote from: OracleUsr on August 09, 2015, 06:33:16 PM
Those cardinal directions on the 675 sign don't look to spec.  Am I right or am I just seeing things?

Neither are the arrows. But hey, at least the sign is factually correct, so it's doing relatively well overall.

Quote from: formulanone on August 09, 2015, 01:21:31 PMBut...I-285 can't seem to make up its mind which direction it wishes to be signed

Last time I checked, 285 is signed east-west from Cobb Parkway to Chamblee-Tucker and from I-20 east to I-85 south. W/E.

Your two photos of I-75: I took the same photos yesterday, on a road trip to check out the reversible toll road construction. Hopefully I'll get around to posting my photos before too long. 

Many times I've tried and failed to adequately photograph the I-285-Memorial Drive interchange (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.779691,-84.2395537,1277m/data=!3m1!1e3) in all of its vastly overblown glory. This time, though, I'm satisfied with the pics I took. Maybe it's just that my standards are falling.  :clap:

Once upon a time, GDOT had a plan to add three lane collector-distributor roads to about seventy miles of freeways across the northern half of Atlanta, as was done with ON 401 in Toronto. There are quite a few places where visible provision for the CD's was made, but this site is both the most elaborate in terms of what the design would've been like if not for the CD's, and the most nonsensical in terms of timing: by the time this was built, it was abundantly clear that the regional CD system never would be.

I'm northbound on 285. Look at the size of those retaining walls on the left:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWfo6Le6.jpg%3F1&hash=e8c28911adf28d91b527ddd3bffc3922ce42417e)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOAcU2Za.jpg%3F1&hash=a944c847d798cbb5e0b06dcdea802d5cd932d505)


Here you can see that in addition to the CD's, room has been made for a wider mainline, at least ten lanes with full shoulders. To my chagrin, the bay for the southbound CD has now been landscaped. I think that qualifies as the most expensive planter in the state. 
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FnIXWVen.jpg%3F1&hash=bf0b97f2a82b4392795426c57459b2b1126f07f5)


One-lane offramps now extend under the original (c. 1967) bridge carrying Rockbridge Road over 285. Doubling the width of the roadway envelope essentially doubled the length of the ramps, too. Oh, well. At least they didn't replace that bridge, too.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkTDXMn8.jpg%3F1&hash=ffd2e3869579445a8ff0b43df44521de405a33fc)

Quote from: Tom958 on August 01, 2015, 01:18:25 PM
In the middle of a hot Georgia summer, hell has frozen over: Georgia's decades-old policy of making all signs on a given gantry the same height has been broken by this sign and its brother just upstream.
...

I'm totally in favor of the new policy if in fact the policy has been changed. That said, it seems really strange to change policy midway through the current huge signage replacement program. Speaking of which, there are yet-to-be-installed signs for the Downtown Connector stockpiled nearby, including a blue one for Grady Hospital and another APL for I don't know where.

I just took a GDOT class on signing & marking, and the original policy of equal height sign panels does NOT appear to be changed (based on their manual).  I guess these signs just slipped through the cracks.  :hmmm:

Quote from: 2Co5_14 on August 14, 2015, 12:41:33 PMI just took a GDOT class on signing & marking, and the original policy of equal height sign panels does NOT appear to be changed (based on their manual).  I guess these signs just slipped through the cracks.  :hmmm:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1159.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp640%2Fflypirat%2FCats%2F1335643385299.jpg&hash=15168b17f1fcad661026976d90f727fe948e298b)


Or maybe updating the manual slipped through the cracks.  :-D

Last Sunday I took a short road trip to see the reversible toll roadway construction on I-75 in Henry County, south of Atlanta. And the new Lithonia bypass. And whatever. We'll just see what I get around to posting.

Starting with I-75: I decided to head from Lithonia via I-20, I-285 and I-675 to I-75, then make a U-turn back toward Atlanta at Locust Grove, where the Tanger Outlets are.

This photo is of the new bridge carrying Walt Stephens Road over I-75 just south of the merge from I-675. The general traffic lanes will be moved to the right and the reversible roadway will, with one exception, be on the southbound side adjacent to the median. The new bridge is symmetrical about the centerline of 75 in order to preserve the option of building a second tolled roadway on the northbound side someday. IIRC, the fourth lane is relatively recent, with auxiliary lanes being added between 675 and Hudson Bridge Road within this decade. At first glance I was chagrined to see how similar what Google has (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5286502,-84.2561227,3a,75y,164.01h,90.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdkdEn6r2LeKRFPWdydqt7Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) was to my photo, but... look closer, Tom. The noise barrier in Streetview sits atop a wall with nothing on it in your pic.  :clap:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fs0quHbh.jpg%3F1&hash=071aa47f882eaf1dca3d81546cfe0fab28c0ebe0)


Next, Hudson Bridge Road. When this part of I-75 was built in the late '60's, this was two short bridges with a mound of earth between them. When the bridge was rebuilt, the earth mound was removed and the center span added. Of course, the reversible roadway will run through the center span. I don't remember, but this bridge must've been twinned at some point: it has eleven lanes now, which seems like a lot.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJbGlAA3.jpg%3F1&hash=9bc800c3d00c88764cb521783f09a3ac45549338)


The Jodeco Road overpass has bays for two lane CD roads both northbound and southbound, but no obvious intent to ever build  them (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4828599,-84.2181926,917m/data=!3m1!1e3). Apparently that's my theme for this week.  :-/ EDIT: wait... maybe they could do a Parclo B4 there!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fh0DcbCF.jpg%3F1&hash=a78e469c6379353dfcd11bacb9fda0156b5ab8a0)


Here's the Jonesboro Road bridge. Unsurprisingly, the reversible roadway and the relocated southbound roadway will take up all of the available room and still require some modest design exceptions (I read the project concept report a while back, but I'm too lazy to look it up now).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FS5eqb77.jpg%3F1&hash=0454e319c48e60d5b9f4302b0e735d7f1e3bf6a3)


I'm gonna go out of sequence and show the same bridge northbound. It and all other interchange bridges from GA 36 near Jackson to GA 54 at Morrow were replaced starting in the '90s-- hence the wide right side clearances.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwUMT0h5.jpg%3F1&hash=294ffb0bf0252b2ed27748e87b629c197fe0d2d6)


This is the Mount Carmel Road bridge, which is the last surviving original bridge in the project area. I included it to give you an idea of the scale of the project out of nostalgia.  :spin:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fgb6zMam.jpg%3F1&hash=2c3fec4f3a81db068b01d8a40d41a0fd31313e1f)


Headed back northbound, this is (I think) an access point to the reversible roadway. Here's Google's view to the east (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.457708,-84.2078784,3a,75y,51.86h,65.21t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1svlc4bMK9scfXJpx93omAcw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dvlc4bMK9scfXJpx93omAcw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D100%26h%3D80%26yaw%3D257.70248%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fj3Nt5RR.jpg%3F2&hash=237b08fd698e04602802becd057df42698d2e7a0)


With Hudson Bridge Road in the distance, here's the one spot where the reversible roadway will run adjacent to the northbound lanes instead to the southbound, which surely will complicate future construction of a second roadway. IIRC from the project concept report, water quality in a stream running through the wide, wooded median was a factor in deciding to do it that way. You're kidding, right?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FeN9mseg.jpg%3F1&hash=fe541adefccff65bb73b156ee403581c0a8ba050)


Approaching the I-675 split. Originally this wide median was provided in order to allow a left side entrance from GA 400 to I-75 southbound. Eventually 400 became I-675 and left hand entrances fell out of favor, so the median provided a bit of greenery-- until now. The diagrammatic (big arrow) sign... I guess it's new, being replaced with current generation signage before GDOT began its infatuation with APL signs. Which reminds me...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZeP0TK5.jpg%3F1&hash=48e674c145c1f247a1a44e5491a6ae1c4258f400)


Backing up half a mile or so to right before Walt Stephens Road, I'm stealing this photo from formulaone.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3739/20422743802_ff0d689fdd_o.jpg)


Last for now, the abutments for the ramps to I-675. Of course, that's the flyover for southbound 675 just beyond.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6DcCdKr.jpg%3F1&hash=959170aa0d257d6e0b5953a60c2473dd2ece0056)

Triple post. Meh.

Continuing north on I-75: As I mentioned earlier, all of the interchange bridges (except for I-675-- oops!) over I-75 from GA 36 to GA 54 have been replaced since the '90's. Here's the one at GA 54. The southward-oriented ramps are really long-- I think that the intent was to allow a second folded diamond interchange to be built at South Lee Street, on the other side of the railroad from GA 54. What do you think (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5765532,-84.3402726,640m/data=!3m1!1e3)?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJ8eWJgo.jpg&hash=b1e188b9b253661e295f4f25e45ed59175b0c2f8)


Next is US 19-41, Old Dixie Highway. The original bridge still exists here, though it was widened in 1988. Beyond is the ramp from Tara Boulevard onto I-75, which was the axis of Atlanta's first superhighway, c. 1945. The portion of 75 from which this photo was taken was opened in 1967 or so. Tara Boulevard used to enter 75 from the left, but it was moved to the right in 1995. More on that below...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FuKryRGD.jpg&hash=66f72444c1750d91c4f03d28440b06c6fdd8725d)


I-75 from Tara Boulevard to I-285 is the most cobbled-together section of metro Atlanta's freeway system. Here you see a flyover ramp from GA 85 onto I-75 northbound (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.6164583,-84.3976569,641m/data=!3m1!1e3), which was built in 1987. A few years after it was built, a plan was put together to widen the segment to twelve lanes, with part of the work being done in the '90's and the rest being deferred indefinitely. Obviously, this ramp would have to go...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFr5i75T.jpg&hash=77381500435ab514d1c8a322bbb011cd2f3ed9eb)


...as would this, the Forest Parkway bridge over I-75, built in... 1959!  :wow:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3YgqnhA.jpg%3F1&hash=55e6094868f04192ee04bdcd53df35624c6a2487)


Stealing formulaone's photo again, this is a bit further north. Quite a funkadelic display here: new style, but with the pre-2009 MUCTD split white/black arrows for a two lane exit and another non-uniform height sign that slipped through the cracks.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/303/20422743742_3e5b7e45ca_o.jpg)


North of 285 on the CD road. Yes, there are two signs for Porsche Avenue, both of which look like crap. What an impressive way to welcome Atlanta's newest high profile corporate citizen.  :no:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fm8BWs82.jpg%3F1&hash=2a7ae0c1e9624ddbe322ed93128e21de1f7e6d4f)


OT, but this is what used to be a Mark Inn at I-75 and Central Avenue in Hapeville. It's been there for as long as I can remember and reached considerable depths of scuzziness, but you can see it's been renovated. The interesting thing about it is that it was built backwards on the site. The dark strip below the Best Western sign is the trackway for a glass elevator. It was supposed to overlook the downtown skyline, not the Ford plant.   :rolleyes:

Oh, well, now it overlooks the landing paths at the world's busiest airport, plus Porsche's zippy new building. Eventually things work out OK, lol.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Ff45NRaF.jpg%3F1&hash=28057ac710a410563bc89f6a045251e20066fa8e)


Doubling back toward the south because of the signage I spotted on the southbound CD. The arrows used to be all white-- the exit only tabs are new. I don't know whether I hate it or not, which...for me considering Georgia freeway signage is high praise.  :-D
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtnUz1LY.jpg%3F1&hash=9f6ee5cc815e69aea234510d1c3a9956408562cd)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FCthJIsp.jpg%3F1&hash=976705b2b85f09deeabd1551ceaf7031a07cd204)


The new(ish) international terminal at Hartsfield-Jackson. I like the poured in place concrete box girder ramp, which, after a brief golden age in the late '70's-mid '80's, GDOT flat out doesn't do anymore.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTGlSItx.jpg%3F1&hash=b42d214ec27c88fe6a31517359eee737e8a9d77b)


Finally, I-75 at Cleveland Avenue, approaching the offramp for GA 166. This used to have an option lane, but was restriped as a double lane drop to give I-85 two lanes instead of one where it merges into I-75.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fy2bmiXP.jpg%3F1&hash=0aa9c231fbc6f5d70cd90975014b12e16a64581e)

Quote from: xcellntbuyRegardless, as I have found out living here for the past year now, Georgia is tight with a buck when it comes to its highway plans.

Not always.  :no:

Quote from: Tom958 on August 10, 2015, 06:11:52 AM

Quote from: formulanone on August 09, 2015, 01:21:31 PMBut...I-285 can't seem to make up its mind which direction it wishes to be signed

Last time I checked, 285 is signed east-west from Cobb Parkway to Chamblee-Tucker and from I-20 east to I-85 south. W/E.

I had a look at this, and the new APL's approaching 85 actually alternate: first south, then east, then south again. The ones on the CD all say south, though, possibly because they explicitly refer to 285 after Chamblee-Tucker.

A new interchange is coming to Gwinnett at I-85 and Hamilton Mill Road...
http://commuting.blog.ajc.com/2015/09/05/new-interchange-to-be-constructed-on-i-85-in-gwinnett/

Quote from: afguy on September 05, 2015, 11:10:40 PM
A new interchange is coming to Gwinnett at I-85 and Hamilton Mill Road...
http://commuting.blog.ajc.com/2015/09/05/new-interchange-to-be-constructed-on-i-85-in-gwinnett/

Here's the bridge that's there now. Well, half of it: it's so enormously long that it's impossible to photograph all of it from one spot because it extends so far past the treeline on both sides. I guess it needs to be wider, like that eleven lane one in Henry County I posted about a couple of weeks ago. Whatever.  :-/
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FM9Uk26p.jpg&hash=e3c4ef8c8ca9a0fdc25e68f6cea266e83ac78ead)


IIRC, while an interchange at GA 324 seems obvious, I think that the idea for many years was to build one at the Northern Arc and GA 124 instead, which would not have require CD roads along 85 or the Arc. I need to find (in this thread-- yay!) that project concept report about Sugarloaf Parkway in this area.

EDIT: Afone's megapost (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=204.msg2043140#msg2043140) of project concept report links, posted on Valentines Day 2015.  :love:

There's a project number for the GA 324 interchange, but I can't find the report, if there is one. And... I misremembered: the Sugarloaf Parkway report (https://gtas.dot.ga.gov/0006924/Concept%20Report/0006924%20&%200006925_CR_MAY2013.pdf) doesn't depict an interchange at 324 despite the provision of space for CD roads when the current bridge was built. Meanwhile, this display from the HOT lane extension project (https://por.dot.ga.gov/projectInfo/110600-/JPG/DisplayBoard7.pdf) shows an interchange there, but with no additional bridge width.

:hmmm:

2nd EDIT: Here's the Project Concept Report (https://gtas.dot.ga.gov/0012698/Concept%20Reports/0012698_CR_APR2015.pdf), which reads:

" GDOT PI #1112698/GCDOT project F-0782-01 proposes four new ramps to create a new location, full access diamond interchange with the existing overpass of (noncontrolled access) SR 324/ Gravel Springs Road over (controlled access) I-85/SR 403. The interchange will be situated between the existing SR 20/Buford Drive and Hamilton Mill Road interchanges at MP 118 within Gwinnett County. No new bridge or bridge widening is proposed by this project (See Major
Structures table below)."

Which in turn reads:

"The existing bridge will be retained and incorporated into the proposed project concept. The existing (32 ft.) raised median that is on the bridge will be removed to create room for 1-2 left turn lanes and an 8 ft. wide raised median with the ramp terminal intersections on each side of the bridge."

:clap:

Double post. Try not to laugh at my poor search skills, but in researching the above post today I found this:

http://www.dot.ga.gov/BuildSmart/Programs/Documents/SSTP/Reports/AttachmentC-SB200.pdf


which is the key to navigating this:

https://gtas.dot.ga.gov/


So, I'll be pretty insufferable for a while as I chaw through project concept reports and find interesting stuff like...

The I-85-GA 74 interchange (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5461137,-84.5770044,522m/data=!3m1!1e3) will be rebuilt as a Parclo B4 with the more heavily traveled loop ramp being two lanes, the parclo ($36.6m) having bested a DDI ($27m) during evaluation. Don't get too excited-- it has largely to do with project specific factors including availability of ROW and the condition of the bridges carrying GA 74 over I-85. That said, the project concept report (https://gtas.dot.ga.gov/0007841/Concept%20Reports/0007841_CR_AUG2014.pdf) stated:

"This project is also to include bike access.  The DDI, with the lane / traffic shifts, would require bikes to be
accommodated on the inside of the lane versus along the outside of the lane where it is preferred."

How could a parclo with free-flowing ramps possibly be better for bikes than a DDI?  :hmmm:

Anyway, here's the layout. Right is north, toward Atlanta. As you can see, the ramps to and from the north will extend through the side spans of the Spence Road bridge to the north. Not as visible is an oddity that now exists and will remain: the right northbound lane of 85 is striped away through the interchange to make it easier for traffic entering from GA 74 to merge. Going to a split northbound offramp will make it look more like they meant to do it that way.  :spin:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9i2lARB.png&hash=d3540dd78b72834449f15cbdd7757031c023ba38)


And,on a completely unrelated topic: Remember that APL in downtown Atlanta that didn't actually have an arrow per lane?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiA4stnw.jpg&hash=d2ce52140b512f7aac7093c7f0b5ea1545f066c0)


Well, now it does.  :clap:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7WGaIUC.jpg&hash=44c4e33abfb25dd7400fb0eb48643d62f56cb400)

I noticed something today that seemed odd. This is Peachtree Street, looking north toward 16th.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ften93.com%2F2015%2Fpeachtree_mile5.jpg&hash=dac472f80ce4f71a8c9dd507f2fd11c3be3d53a9)

What I'm looking at here in particular is the mile marker on that lamppost over on the right. To the best of my knowledge, this part of Peachtree has not been a state highway in at least 75 years (US 19/SR 9 join Peachtree about 2 1/2 blocks downstream). So what is the mile marker referring to? Some other observations:

- One mile north of here would be somewhere between 25th and 26th Streets. This is, as I mentioned, part of SR 9, which would presumably fall under normal GDOT mileposting rules (around milepost 2.2 or so). I see no marker there, though neither do I see one at any of the locations where I would expect SR 9's first three mileposts.
- One mile south of here is roughly the intersection with 5th Street. No mile marker there either.
- There is, however, one thing that does line up: the course for the Peachtree Road Race (http://www.atlantatrackclub.org/sites/atlantatrackcluborg/files/2462-PRR_Course_Map.pdf), held annually since 1970. Mile marker 5 matches up just about exactly. But it's only posted northbound, and the race course runs southbound, so I'm skeptical even of that. (And I couldn't find a mile marker 6 in the appropriate place on 10th Street, either.)

The mile marker and the lamppost it's mounted on have both been present since at least 2010 per Street View, but don't seem to have been there in 2007 (though as blurry as 2007-era imagery is, it's hard to say).

In my inbox today:

QuoteIn response to your inquiry IMS000000072246 submitted on 8/4/2015 3:59:13 PM to Georgia Department of Transportation:

Mr. 958,
Thank you for contacting YOUR Georgia Department of Transportation. We received your inquiry and appreciate you writing in to us. The Department has met with the construction office and have informed the contractor to fix the issues you mentioned.

Thanks,
Customer Service Unit
Georgia DOT

________________________________
Name:   Tom958
Phone/Email:    678******* / blomi@gmail.com
Contact Method: Email
GDOT District:  7          County: Dekalb

Subject Area:   Suggest a Project or Quick Fix
Your Comments:  LOCATION: I-285 northbound approaching Chamblee Tucker Road and I-85

PROBLEM:
The newly installed arrow per lane sign H341 has the split arrow over the fifth, rightmost lane instead of over the fourth lane as H345 correctly does. H341 therefore shows an incorrect lane configuration, which defeats the purpose of having APL signage. Also, there's no exit only legend warning of the upcoming dropping of the fourth lane as the Chamblee Tucker exit as there is at H345.

Also, H345's arrows are drawn in a way that makes it appear that two of 285's four lanes will be directed onto Chamblee Tucker Road. I don't see a lot that can be done with that other than giving Chamblee Tucker Road a name that's short enough to fit in the correct area of the sign. I suppose there was quite a bit of discussion about that during the design process, which makes it all the more amazing that H341 turned out as it did.

PROPOSED FIX:
Correct the abovementioned issues, and do a better job of design and pre-installation checking.

Quote from: Tom958 on August 05, 2015, 05:35:07 AM
Crossposted from Erroneous Road Signs, where, to my amazement, no one said anything about it.  :hmmm:

QuoteYou may remember this from a few months ago, with the two lanes of I-285 seemingly directed onto Chamblee Tucker Road:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FX3WRTae.jpg%3F1&hash=0101e67ef7886394a874e549bc5b7d02f3367159)


Now it has a brother downstream, which I saw for the first time yesterday, and which I'd driven past by the time I realized how epic the fail I'd just witnessed was.  :wow: Today, it's my gift to all of you:   :clap:

Spoiler below...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FcSSLBvb.jpg&hash=35c8b76bf729698391d491c0671ffee3d0ceccfa)


The split arrow is over the fifth lane on the new sign. The fourth lane is the one that splits, as shown correctly on the previous sign.   :pan:

Was in Cobb county yesterday and it still looks like the 75 toll lanes won't be completed til a year from now? Still a lot of bridge work left to do at the Cobb cloverleaf including added work on the ramp from 75N to 285 west (the partial cloverleaf where drivers have to go 25 mph). It will be interesting to see what's the next elevated toll lane project will be once this is complete?

http://www.dot.ga.gov/DS/GEL/NWC#tab-3

on the FAQ on that URL, it says spring/summer of 2018.

Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 24, 2017, 12:34:19 PM
Was in Cobb county yesterday and it still looks like the 75 toll lanes won't be completed til a year from now? Still a lot of bridge work left to do at the Cobb cloverleaf including added work on the ramp from 75N to 285 west (the partial cloverleaf where drivers have to go 25 mph). It will be interesting to see what's the next elevated toll lane project will be once this is complete?

Is that ramp really being replaced with a flyover? It looked from the plans like only the express lanes were getting upgraded ramps.

Quote from: roadman65 on June 28, 2017, 08:45:24 AM
Since when does I-75 go to Birmingham?  Or better question why does a place along I-20, that is not in the same direction as I-75's northern heading get a mention here?

The previous signage here mentioned "TO I-285 WEST" along with I-75 and "TO I-285 EAST" along with I-675. Mentioning Birmingham would be in line with that (why not Montgomery? Because if you've come from McDonough or anywhere further south, there are better ways to reach I-85 than going all the way to Atlanta).

Quote from: uknowbeers on June 28, 2017, 09:11:42 AM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 24, 2017, 12:34:19 PM
Was in Cobb county yesterday and it still looks like the 75 toll lanes won't be completed til a year from now? Still a lot of bridge work left to do at the Cobb cloverleaf including added work on the ramp from 75N to 285 west (the partial cloverleaf where drivers have to go 25 mph). It will be interesting to see what's the next elevated toll lane project will be once this is complete?

Is that ramp really being replaced with a flyover? It looked from the plans like only the express lanes were getting upgraded ramps.

I don't know, I hope so, but haven't heard anything about replacing that ramp. IMO It should have been replaced 20 years ago. Its necessary now since its the main interstate ramp to Cobb Pkwy and STP ( SunTrust Park ) from the south and drivers who are unfamiliar with the cluster#### in that area...

Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 28, 2017, 09:46:36 AM

Quote from: uknowbeers on June 28, 2017, 09:11:42 AM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 24, 2017, 12:34:19 PM
Was in Cobb county yesterday and it still looks like the 75 toll lanes won't be completed til a year from now? Still a lot of bridge work left to do at the Cobb cloverleaf including added work on the ramp from 75N to 285 west (the partial cloverleaf where drivers have to go 25 mph). It will be interesting to see what's the next elevated toll lane project will be once this is complete?

Is that ramp really being replaced with a flyover? It looked from the plans like only the express lanes were getting upgraded ramps.

I don't know, I hope so, but haven't heard anything about replacing that ramp. IMO It should have been replaced 20 years ago. Its necessary now since its the main interstate ramp to Cobb Pkwy and STP ( SunTrust Park ) from the south and drivers who are unfamiliar with the cluster#### in that area...

They built a stub ramp for an I-75 North --> I-285 West (South) flyover ramp when they added the Cumberland Boulevard interchange.  I haven't seen any hint that they're doing anything with it with the current construction.  I imagine the pay lane ramps are going to get in the way of it.

Yeah, I saw that, when the toll lane construction started, I thought that was going to be the 75 north access point??? Now I think its just going to remain as is until they renovate that interchange in 20+ years???

Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 28, 2017, 10:05:22 PM
Yeah, I saw that, when the toll lane construction started, I thought that was going to be the 75 north access point??? Now I think its just going to remain as is until they renovate that interchange in 20+ years???

I think the I-75 North access point is going to be in the median just north of I-285-- they have both I-75 North and South splayed out away from the center and are tearing things up there.

Quote from: Finrod on June 29, 2017, 04:55:28 PMI think the I-75 North access point is going to be in the median just north of I-285-- they have both I-75 North and South splayed out away from the center and are tearing things up there.

Correct. There are two T columns up for it now.

On the 4th of July I drove 575 southbound for the first time in forever, and I noticed something: This is the new bridge carrying southbound 575 onto 75. Supporting it are not one but two straddle bents. The 75 reversible lane will run through the one on the left, and the one from 575 will dive down from the same elevation at which this photo was taken through the one on the right. The combined roadway will then climb steeply to the north. It'll be like a roller coaster. Actually, you could say the same of several areas on the project, but this looks like the most extreme. I think that people will take it during off peak hours just for the fun of it.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXqx2yrt.jpg%3F1&hash=6914beaa2608e2882fb8e477bebe1e2831c4adf1)


Oh, there's this, too:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fhjj4u3i.jpg%3F1&hash=ff0864702eed61af768e251627c03c44414a57b0)

Thanks for the pics. I was in that area 2 months ago when that phase started. Its hell getting through there. I was curious about the 75 North access points at the Cobb cloverleaf? I wonder if GDOT Plans on using the stub ramp that is right adjacent to the southern end by the Akers mill bridge???

US 5 is in Georgia?  Must be some secret duplexes I don't know about.  :D

The signage is much better since Georgia DOT changed to Series E (or E(m)).  Whichever.  It still is better than before.

Oh wow, GDOT Has made several errors on replacing the signs the last 2 years. Anyone still notice that the variable speed limit signs on 285 are still dysfunctional? Even After 18 months from being called out on it by the news media here....

Yeah, I remember seeing that US 5 sign that's supposed to be a Georgia 5 sign.  Oops!

Quote from: Tomahawkin on July 08, 2017, 10:39:24 PM
Thanks for the pics. I was in that area 2 months ago when that phase started. Its hell getting through there. I was curious about the 75 North access points at the Cobb cloverleaf? I wonder if GDOT Plans on using the stub ramp that is right adjacent to the southern end by the Akers mill bridge???

That stub ramp is supposed to be for a future flyover ramp from I-75 North to I-285 West (South), but what with these new ramps for the pay lanes, I wonder how they could fit that in now.

Quote from: Tom958 on July 08, 2017, 09:17:59 PM
Oh, there's this, too:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fhjj4u3i.jpg%3F1&hash=ff0864702eed61af768e251627c03c44414a57b0)

State-to-US route upgrade? Check.
Sloppy alignment on the right-hand sign? Check.
Missing "EXIT 1" tab? Check.

(Technically, the Interstate shields are also too small, but I'll overlook that because they look better this way.)

But then again, this is what was there before:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ften93.com%2F2017%2Fsign_photos%2Fi575s_exit1.jpg&hash=b09a987d1a87265064bd04cdf72ea9785d1607fe)

So yeah, upgrade.

Saw this article about the Connector on the aaroads twitter page (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/gdot-no-idea-off-the-table-in-fixing-downtown-connector-traffic/550752850) and had a couple of questions regarding possible proposals:

What effect would all electronic tolling the Downtown Connector have on traffic? Would it decrease usage or stay the same? Would it just make exits before the tollway a nightmare?


Would removing all local exits on the connector improve flow or worsen it elsewhere?


What about a Dan Ryan Expressway style connector (ex: 5 lanes have no exit access while 4 have exit access/ collector-distributor in each direction)

A Dan Ryan format would be perfect, but its not econonomically feasible. That format should have been done 25 years ago before the Olympics population explosion. Not to mention the state claims that its low on money??? I advocated long ago that it was dumb to get rid of the 400 toll, know they would use a lack of funding for road and infrastructure projects.... SMH

Quote from: ukfan758 on July 09, 2017, 01:08:17 PM
Saw this article about the Connector on the aaroads twitter page (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/gdot-no-idea-off-the-table-in-fixing-downtown-connector-traffic/550752850) and had a couple of questions regarding possible proposals:

What effect would all electronic tolling the Downtown Connector have on traffic? Would it decrease usage or stay the same? Would it just make exits before the tollway a nightmare?


Would removing all local exits on the connector improve flow or worsen it elsewhere?


What about a Dan Ryan Expressway style connector (ex: 5 lanes have no exit access while 4 have exit access/ collector-distributor in each direction)

Tolling the Connector or removing local exits would go over like a lead balloon.  Voters (myself included) would break out torches and pitchforks and march on the Capitol and on GDOT.

There's no room to make it like the Dan Ryan without removing lanes which would make matters worse.

My solution (which I need to write up) is to build that tunnel that was re-proposed in 2010 to extend 400 south to I-20, then on the surface to I-675.  Toll it as much as you need to in order to recoup costs, people going to expensive jobs in Buckhead and Perimeter will pay it.  Also build an expressway above Northside Drive and railroad tracks to go from the I-85/GA 400 intersection SW to Northside Drive down past the football stadium and ending at the Connector south of I-20, make the part between I-75 and I-20 toll.  Call it the Northside Skyway, I-385.

Why build one alternate route when you can build two?

I like how you are talking there! Have you noticed that the Overhead HOV signs were removed from the overhead sign bridges on both 75, 85, and the connector circa 5 years ago? Does anyone know why? I have speculated that the HOV Lanes ITP will be toll lanes probably around or after 2020...

So what's the craziest solution? Double decking, ground and tunnel levels (think big dig but with a freeway still on ground level), HOV/HOT tunnels, or elevated HOV/HOT lanes (like Houston 610 proposal)? All of the above?  :biggrin:

Quote from: ukfan758 on July 11, 2017, 12:59:02 AM
So what's the craziest solution? Double decking, ground and tunnel levels (think big dig but with a freeway still on ground level), HOV/HOT tunnels, or elevated HOV/HOT lanes (like Houston 610 proposal)? All of the above?  :biggrin:

I was thinking about putting HOT lanes under the current freeway, and build it similar to I-635 by removing the current HOV lanes and use that space as the "breathing space" for the underground HOT lanes.  These lanes would be 4 lanes each way.  A smaller improvement to the downtown connector would be moving the I-85 ramp on the north side to the right as opposed to the left, which would reduce weaving.  Removing a couple exits on the downtown connector would reduce weaving, specifically removing exit 294A/B since they appear to be very close to exit 249C/D.

For the I-75/I-85 Downtown Connector: Express lanes underground, local lanes above. The only interchange for the express lanes should be at I-20. End the express lanes at each split.

Quote from: Gnutella on July 11, 2017, 03:33:28 PM
For the I-75/I-85 Downtown Connector: Express lanes underground, local lanes above. The only interchange for the express lanes should be at I-20. End the express lanes at each split.

Agreed on that! If they could get a better version of Bertha to tunnel under the current road (which may necessitate the closure of at least one side) and get over their NIMBYism, then they'd be all set.

Went down the 75 toll lanes cooridor Sunday (Traffic was hell) and it still looks 9 months to a year away from completion. Can anyone answer why is there only going to be 1 added toll lane North of the 575 split? There is too much truck traffic from there up to Chattanooga. They should have added 2 lanes North of the split. IMO this project is just putting a band aid on a bullet wound

Amazing: GDOT has replaced a rogue APL with a correct APL! Embarrassingly, I took this photo way back on August 12, but it didn't click for me what I was seeing until I passed the same spot yesterday. The support post for the former APL is still visible beyond:
(https://i.imgur.com/OMc9EoN.jpg?1)


Here's my photo of the previous condition:
(https://i.imgur.com/YFu4Ox5.jpg?1)


Most of the rogue APL's here are due to APL's being used where there is no option lane. This, however, was a case where the APL was sited too far back and thus bore five arrows instead of four. To correct it involved making a new sign and installing it on a new gantry in front of the old one. There's a similar situation on I-285 southbound approaching I-20 east (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7217441,-84.2369991,3a,75y,189.66h,90.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSsi0u8HNBRi87U2gaTOidw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Maybe it's in line for the same treatment.  :hmmm:

It also appears that Georgia DOT had to move the sign because of the bridge that was built at the prior APL spot.  Is the new bridge a pedestrian walkway or is it for the tram system that was in its infancy the last time I was in Atlanta?

APL?

Quote from: JoeP on September 04, 2017, 02:01:28 PM
APL?

APL = Arrow Per Lane.

Quote from: amroad17 on September 04, 2017, 01:39:41 AM
It also appears that Georgia DOT had to move the sign because of the bridge that was built at the prior APL spot.  Is the new bridge a pedestrian walkway or is it for the tram system that was in its infancy the last time I was in Atlanta?

It's a pedestrian bridge for that damned baseball stadium.

yea, that is the $8 million dollar pedestrian bridge that was half finished 2 months into the season because of good planning.  havent been to SunTrust in months, but i assume it is completed now.

APL's in Atlanta: the gift that keeps on giving. Just in the last week, what used to be a curved arrow under I-20 east was replaced by the split arrow you see now. There's a story: when the rebuilding of the Downtown Connector was finished in 1989, the lane that goes to I-20 east also continued straight for a thousand feet or so to an exit only lane for Fulton Street/Atlanta Stadium/Turner Field. Long ago, that exit lane was truncated so that it led only to I-20 east, beginning again as an auxiliary lane just beyond the gore... until sometime this week, when the old configuration was restored and the split arrow added to the APL. Annoyingly, the highway was repaved within the last few months, but GDOT hadn't come up with this scheme them, so the old markings have been conspicuously blacked over.  :ded:

Here's the Google Streetview (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7519637,-84.3801986,3a,60y,213.3h,95.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sueDDIYKFfduMyI2q2HAOEg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) if you want to look around.
(https://i.imgur.com/zaDO6nL.jpg?1)

That 2500 feet merge from freedom Pkwy to IH 20 Is hell. It needs serious help but I have no idea what can be done there since there is no room for widening on both sides of the connector on the Grady Curve??? Anyone have suggestions? The connector between IH20 and the brookwood interchange handles over 500K a day. And has to be a top 5 stretch of dangerous interstates in the country? IMO

(https://i.imgur.com/Ds8oeqg.jpg?1)

lovely pic of the 75/575 interchange and the northwest express lexus roller coaster lanes :D

Quote from: Georgia on September 27, 2017, 08:28:30 PM
lovely pic of the 75/575 interchange and the northwest express lexus roller coaster lanes :D

Why, thank you!


The Equifax option lane, reintroduced after a hiatus of (I think) about a quarter century. Unlike the last APL  fix I showed you, they did a neat job. The special striping to the left was introduced fairly recently to make it clearer which lanes go to which Interstate-- I was surprised to see a second special stripe added to the right. Gee, I dunno.  Note also the added shield for 85 in the option lane. There's at least one and maybe two other sets of pavement shields like this.
(https://i.imgur.com/FG7L2DR.jpg?1)


A generally successful effort is marred, IMO, by this weird split arrow, which confusingly resembles a gore. Call in the grinder again, please.  :rolleyes:
(https://i.imgur.com/iNTNEvf.jpg?1)

And, hopefully of greater significance: Within (I'm pretty sure) the last few days, along with some APL-related changes I've already posted about, this sign for the Edgewood Ave exit and the one for the subsequent International Blvd exit were changed from 2009 MUTCD-complaint twin black-on-yellow arrows to the old skool scheme you see here. To me, this amounts to extending a middle finger to the single most objectionable feature of the 2009 MUTCD, and don't mind admitting that I'm giddy about it. It's all the more remarkable considering that several of the rogue APL's that GDOT is famous for have been corrected recently ( two items on this page (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18699.50)). Something is going on. Here's the Streetview link (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.750936,-84.3805704,3a,60y,28.13h,101.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbN01qiDKkU1v0T7p77TNiw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in case you want to look around.
(https://i.imgur.com/29hYRkq.jpg?1)


Having made my own opinion clear, I'm not gonna reargue the point, but I would like to mention that there are many places in Georgia where the sign is mounted before the option lane starts to widen rather than at or near the physical nose, thereby making it appear that two lanes are being dropped rather than one. That was the case here, actually, until the change. I'm wondering now if practical experience with accidents is playing a bigger role here than philosophy.  :hmmm: Either way, we may be seeing a lot of this in the future.

Triple post!  :clap:  Obviously, nobody cares about this stuff, but I uploaded this photo to Imgur, so might as well do something with it: Unlike other states, Georgia never used dual upward-pointing arrows on exit signs in the pre-2009 MUTCD era, and of course said MUTCD forbade the use of white-on-green and black-on-yellow arrows on the same sign. So, until those two signs I mentioned in the post above, the only time I'd ever seen that configuration in Georgia was on the southbound detour for during the I-85 bridge disaster, pointing to this ramp that'd been temporarily restriped from one lane to two. It looks great, too. I'm gonna guess that clarity trumped MUTCD compliance in that case.
(https://i.imgur.com/hY6JVuN.jpg?1)

Quote from: Tom958 on October 01, 2017, 01:39:48 PM
Obviously, nobody cares about this stuff, but I uploaded this photo to Imgur, so might as well do something with it

Do not worry; I care!  :wave:

I've seen all of your posts lately on this topic and have found them fascinating, but I hadn't gotten the chance to reply until now.

Quote(https://i.imgur.com/29hYRkq.jpg?1)

I agree with you, Tom, as I think that these new signs are indeed much clearer, and it is a very good change. I think some of your earlier recent posts on this topic were talking about how there were some APL clarity problems in Georgia that needed to be addressed, and now they are fixed, so that's good. This came as a pleasant surprise to me. I think these new signs better inform you of the fact that there are some option lanes in the mix, and that is definitely important.

Thanks for sharing!!  :nod:


All of this stuff is looking real nice, but with that said....

There is one thing that turned out a bit strange... :hmmm:

Quote(https://i.imgur.com/iNTNEvf.jpg?1)

Quote
A generally successful effort is marred, IMO, by this weird split arrow, which confusingly resembles a gore.

I agree with ya there. It does look an awful lot like a gore. The funny thing is that I actually thought that's what it was the first millisecond I saw the picture - I thought that they had possibly relocated the gore (for some reason) to where the split arrow actually is - then, by the time a few seconds passed, visually it didn't add up, and I looked closer at the picture and then easily realized that that was not the case. 

:-D

But that is a weird arrow - I'm sure GDOT had their reasons for using it, but it is just new and unusual to me - I don't know if it is incorrect or not (probably not), but somebody else would have to tell me that. 

:hmm:

A few days in, and everybody who's seen it agrees: fake gore must go, and soon.

Also, this morning I discovered that white-on-green arrows have also been installed at two locations on the southbound side. One is the Williams Street exit, where the sign with "Georgia Dome" was replaced with one with "Mercedes-Benz Stadium" only within the last couple of weeks! Hasty much?

Quote from: Tom958 on October 02, 2017, 01:47:59 PM
A few days in, and everybody who's seen it agrees: fake gore must go, and soon.

Also, this morning I discovered that white-on-green arrows have also been installed at two locations on the southbound side. One is the Williams Street exit, where the sign with "Georgia Dome" was replaced with one with "Mercedes-Benz Stadium" only within the last couple of weeks! Hasty much?

Perhaps, as you suggested a few posts ago, they felt the change was necessary for safety reasons and thus decided it couldn't wait. I certainly won't be shedding any tears over the loss of the (IMO) incorrect signs, that's for sure.

Quote from: Eth on October 03, 2017, 08:17:14 AMPerhaps, as you suggested a few posts ago, they felt the change was necessary for safety reasons and thus decided it couldn't wait. I certainly won't be shedding any tears over the loss of the (IMO) incorrect signs, that's for sure.

Well, the option lane at the 75-85 split was removed decades ago. It's hard for me to understand why reintroducing it would've been an urgent safety need. What I am sure of is that I wish I had a pal at GDOT or FHWA who knows what's going on and would talk to me about it.

New topic: the ramp from eastbound I-20 to northbound 285 on the east side has been restored to its original configuration by adding a second lane from the ramp split to... it starts to narrow at the start of the curve, and is gone by the bridge over I-20. I'm too lazy to post a photo, but check out (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7151626,-84.2470259,3a,47.5y,134.32h,88.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX0NhR39y8FZWU2PEC74yCg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) the laughably heinous little ground-mounted sign.It's still there for now, btw, though the grossly undersized arrow on the left overhead is gone.

Quote from: Tom958 on October 07, 2017, 01:39:55 PM

Quote from: Eth on October 03, 2017, 08:17:14 AMPerhaps, as you suggested a few posts ago, they felt the change was necessary for safety reasons and thus decided it couldn't wait. I certainly won't be shedding any tears over the loss of the (IMO) incorrect signs, that's for sure.

Well, the option lane at the 75-85 split was removed decades ago. It's hard for me to understand why reintroducing it would've been an urgent safety need. What I am sure of is that I wish I had a pal at GDOT or FHWA who knows what's going on and would talk to me about it.

I meant the signs, not the resurrected option lane or the suboptimal associated pavement markings.

And one more thing: the exit only panel here, in addition to being one of several with ridiculous upward-pointing arrows (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=204.msg2188044#msg2188044), also indicates a lane that isn't exit only. The panel has been removed, apparently quite recently. It'll be interesting to see whether the rest of the signs are fixed.
(https://i.imgur.com/DkB95G0.png?1)

Sign replacement is underway on I-85 between 285 and Sugarloaf or so, and GDOT is clearly all in on the dual-color arrow scheme for signing multilane exits with option lanes that I posted about earlier (//http://). Among the welcome casualties is this sign, once an also-ran candidate for stupidest-looking sign in the state, but now rid of its double border as well as having its arrows redone.
(https://i.imgur.com/GUSIjVc.jpg?1)


There are two places where I suspect that the new signage is not compliant with the 2009 MUTCD, but in a different way: the dropped lanes at the Pleasant Hill and GA 120-Boggs Road exits are added lanes of relatively short length, short enough that they're supposed to be signed with two white arrows, as was done a few miles away on GA 316 at GA 20-Collins Hill Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9752049,-84.003726,3a,75y,51.78h,92.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4bXpCKn9swAYOecJgR4ZtQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). I prefer what GDOT did on 85, though, because it seems more consistent.


There's also a new sign at the 85-316 divergence, and new gantries are being erected to replace the diagrammatic signs, which have aged badly. With no option lane at the split, the new signs had better be conventional. No more rogue APL's!

Quote from: Tom958 on October 14, 2017, 10:21:39 PM
Sign replacement is underway on I-85 between 285 and Sugarloaf or so, and GDOT is clearly all in on the dual-color arrow scheme for signing multilane exits with option lanes that I posted about earlier (//http://). Among the welcome casualties is this sign, once an also-ran candidate for stupidest-looking sign in the state, but now rid of its double border as well as having its arrows redone.
(https://i.imgur.com/GUSIjVc.jpg?1)


There are two places where I suspect that the new signage is not compliant with the 2009 MUTCD, but in a different way: the dropped lanes at the Pleasant Hill and GA 120-Boggs Road exits are added lanes of relatively short length, short enough that they're supposed to be signed with two white arrows, as was done a few miles away on GA 316 at GA 20-Collins Hill Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9752049,-84.003726,3a,75y,51.78h,92.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4bXpCKn9swAYOecJgR4ZtQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). I prefer what GDOT did on 85, though, because it seems more consistent.


There's also a new sign at the 85-316 divergence, and new gantries are being erected to replace the diagrammatic signs, which have aged badly. With no option lane at the split, the new signs had better be conventional. No more rogue APL's!

This is all very intriguing news to hear!  :nod:

What's interesting is that I actually went to the Athens, Georgia area just this past Saturday (October 14th) to see family and the UGA game and such. Despite getting a lot of sleep the night before, IIRC, I was severely fatigued on the drive over there Saturday morning (I probably should have gotten a coffee at the Cracker Barrel off of I-75's Exit 271 near Kennesaw, GA (Chastain Road; TO I-575 NORTH) that morning). As a result, I unfortunately wasn't fully in tune with the sights on the road. When I was riding on that stretch of the drive close to the I-85/GA 316 interchange, I could have sworn that something looked different about a lot of signs, but I was too tired and slow to think about it or even snap a picture - though I actually had myself quite a lot of road photos snapped collectively on that trip (and a couple of road videos as well); it's just for some reason, on the way there, my fatigue was the worst on Interstate 85 Northbound between I-285 and GA SR 316. It truly is a shame it worked out that way, as this stuff would have been quite something to coherently encode in my mind and snap pictures of on my phone, should I have been sufficiently alert at the time.

Trying to tap into my blurry, sedated memories from the drive, I think I might remember seeing the diagrammatic signs at the I-85/GA 316 interchange replaced with signs that looked much different, but I cannot for the life of me remember in what way it was (or maybe I truly am crazy). This is what one of those signs looked like when I snapped a picture of it on an identical trip back in late 2014:

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7467/15804038395_0fbfeb5df1.jpg)



Last Edit before this was at 06:37:43 PM

Quote from: adventurernumber1 on October 20, 2017, 06:33:25 PM...When I was riding on that stretch of the drive close to the I-85/GA 316 interchange, I could have sworn that something looked different about a lot of signs, but I was too tired and slow to think about it or even snap a picture - though I actually had myself quite a lot of road photos snapped collectively on that trip (and a couple of road videos as well); it's just for some reason, on the way there, my fatigue was the worst on Interstate 85 Northbound between I-285 and GA SR 316. It truly is a shame it worked out that way, as this stuff would have been quite something to coherently encode in my mind and snap pictures of on my phone, should I have been sufficiently alert at the time.

Trying to tap into my blurry, sedated memories from the drive, I think I might remember seeing the diagrammatic signs at the I-85/GA 316 interchange replaced with signs that looked much different, but I cannot for the life of me remember in what way it was (or maybe I truly am crazy). This is what one of those signs looked like when I snapped a picture of it on an identical trip back in late 2014:

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7467/15804038395_0fbfeb5df1.jpg)
Last Edit before this was at 06:37:43 PM

That sign and the other diagrammatics are still there. The only new signs are at the gore. and I'm not gonna upload a photo because they're just modernized versions of what was already there. I'm told that they worked every night this week on the median side support for that diagrammatic's replacement, but it's still not done yet. A friend pointed out that GDOT wouldn't have ordered such a huge new gantry unless they planned to put a rogue APL there, but I hope and believe that they've changed their mind, possibly after the new gantries were ordered. After all, there's been evidence of great haste regarding APL-related events downtown, We'll see.

Heard that the 75/575 toll lane project will not be completed til August of next year? Any validity to this? Drove by the southern end of it near the C. Cloverleaf, and it there is a lot left to do...Also I wonder what's the next big toll lane project once this is completed?

Quote from: Tomahawkin on October 23, 2017, 07:54:42 PM
Heard that the 75/575 toll lane project will not be completed til August of next year? Any validity to this? Drove by the southern end of it near the C. Cloverleaf, and it there is a lot left to do...Also I wonder what's the next big toll lane project once this is completed?

it is true, they are blaming it on the workers being diverted for the 85 fix this spring.

Quote from: Tomahawkin on October 23, 2017, 07:54:42 PM
Heard that the 75/575 toll lane project will not be completed til August of next year? Any validity to this? Drove by the southern end of it near the C. Cloverleaf, and it there is a lot left to do...Also I wonder what's the next big toll lane project once this is completed?

I might be wrong, but a few years back when I was reading about the (then) newly started construction on the tolled express lanes on I-75 & I-575, whatever source(s) I was reading said that some of those new ramps they have been constructing at the (north) I-75/I-285 interchange may accommodate for the possibility in the future of tolled express lanes (or something of the sort) being built on that part of Interstate 285, IIRC. Someone else may know what I am talking about..

:hmm:

Quote from: Tom958 on October 21, 2017, 09:17:43 AM

Quote from: adventurernumber1 on October 20, 2017, 06:33:25 PM...When I was riding on that stretch of the drive close to the I-85/GA 316 interchange, I could have sworn that something looked different about a lot of signs, but I was too tired and slow to think about it or even snap a picture - though I actually had myself quite a lot of road photos snapped collectively on that trip (and a couple of road videos as well); it's just for some reason, on the way there, my fatigue was the worst on Interstate 85 Northbound between I-285 and GA SR 316. It truly is a shame it worked out that way, as this stuff would have been quite something to coherently encode in my mind and snap pictures of on my phone, should I have been sufficiently alert at the time.

Trying to tap into my blurry, sedated memories from the drive, I think I might remember seeing the diagrammatic signs at the I-85/GA 316 interchange replaced with signs that looked much different, but I cannot for the life of me remember in what way it was (or maybe I truly am crazy). This is what one of those signs looked like when I snapped a picture of it on an identical trip back in late 2014:

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7467/15804038395_0fbfeb5df1.jpg)
Last Edit before this was at 06:37:43 PM

That sign and the other diagrammatics are still there. The only new signs are at the gore. and I'm not gonna upload a photo because they're just modernized versions of what was already there. I'm told that they worked every night this week on the median side support for that diagrammatic's replacement, but it's still not done yet. A friend pointed out that GDOT wouldn't have ordered such a huge new gantry unless they planned to put a rogue APL there, but I hope and believe that they've changed their mind, possibly after the new gantries were ordered. After all, there's been evidence of great haste regarding APL-related events downtown, We'll see.

Well, I must have been insane, then!  :-D

If only I had been alert enough to encode what I saw correctly and coherently, but what can I do..  :no:  :ded:

Well, keep us updated on the work that they are doing over there, and thanks for the information! I also as well hope that they make the right decisions on the new signs regarding APL's. 

:nod:  :thumbsup:

Anyone know when the 75/575 toll lane project will be finished? I'm guessing June 20th? Also I'm guessing the next big toll lane project will be announced within the next 4 months? Anyone want to speculate the next one? I'm guessing it will be both sides of IH 20 that interstate should have been widened to 6 lanes in each direction 20 years ago. Especially if they knew that they were not going to do #### to improve any of the big interchanges

Quote from: Tomahawkin on January 03, 2018, 11:16:53 PM
Anyone know when the 75/575 toll lane project will be finished? I'm guessing June 20th? Also I'm guessing the next big toll lane project will be announced within the next 4 months? Anyone want to speculate the next one? I'm guessing it will be both sides of IH 20 that interstate should have been widened to 6 lanes in each direction 20 years ago. Especially if they knew that they were not going to do #### to improve any of the big interchanges

I was actually in Atlanta a few days ago, and I noticed and snapped a picture of a new sign that had to do with the express lanes on I-75, and ultimately I-575 as well - this was on I-285 Northeastbound right before the interchange with I-75 near the suburb of Smyrna. I may have found a way to finally upload pictures from my phone to the forum again, so I will work on that as soon as possible, so that y'all may be able to visually see it.

Also, my prediction is that the next toll lane project will be on Interstate 285. This is because of the huge, tall flyover ramps that have been constructed at the I-75/I-285 interchange, regarding the express lanes. I believe I remember reading somewhere that there were short-term or long-term plans to implement tolled express lanes on I-285 as well, as a result.

Yes!!! I got it to work, by using the Tapatalk app for the first time.  :thumbsup:  :awesomeface:

These are the aforementioned pictures that I was talking about in my post in this thread right before this one:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180104/2e6b5f314d9a1c94f7211be5a19f4964.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180104/b1a663602807dedc66b602fd867e4f6f.jpg)


iPhone

Thanks for the pics. I avoid that stretch of 285 like the plague. I'm curious to see how much it could cost from the cobb cloverleaf to sixes road on 575 during peak hours. I would not be surprised if it exceeds 15+ dollars, especially during inclement weather

Does anyone know when the stoplight that was erected at Paper Mill Road and Woodlawn Drive in East Cobb County will actually be activated as a stoplight, instead of just blinking red like it has been for over a month now?  It's great that they made it into a stoplight because the backups during rush hour coming into that intersection on Paper Mill are horrible, but when are they actually going to turn the silly thing on?

The third time's the charm, except when GDOT is involved: Remember this? I didn't get a photo, but now they've greened out the curved part of the right split arrow and left the straight part exposed. Wow.
(https://i.imgur.com/byx7HAt.jpg?2)


This is the original version, with the split arrow over the wrong lane. I feel some ownership of this situation because I emailed GDOT about the original problem and they emailed me back saying they'd direct their contractor to fix it. We see how that went-- they made it worse.
(https://i.imgur.com/cSSLBvb.jpg)


So, is the third iteration even worse than the second? I dunno, but at least the second had comedy value. The third is just pathetic.

Quote from: afguy on February 04, 2018, 08:27:23 AM...remove excess signs..

Hopefully that includes this (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5526588,-84.9302808,3a,17y,264.22h,88.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCaF1M_1YjhPxR72IcbnryA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). I dunno--maybe the one in the gore got hit so often, they decided to install a backup.  :clap:


On an unrelated topic:
(https://i.imgur.com/Etijnnf.jpg?1)

Quote from: Tom958 on February 04, 2018, 08:02:45 PM
On an unrelated topic:
(https://i.imgur.com/Etijnnf.jpg?1)

Wow, that does look pretty bad.  :crazy:

Especially in this blurry picture taken at night, it looks like they lit a match and burned just a little bit of the sign right there.  :-D  :no:  :pan:

Quote from: adventurernumber1 on February 05, 2018, 10:16:38 AMEspecially in this blurry picture taken at night, it looks like they lit a match and burned just a little bit of the sign right there.  :-D  :no:  :pan:

Maybe they tried to kill it with fire and the flamethrower his the wrong spot, then broke,

Back in the early 2000's, Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport went through a major runway expansion.  Like any other airport expansion, it had a significant impact to the roads and highways that surround it.  In this case, Georgia Highways 139 and 319 saw a significant reroute (their second since the 1970s). Our own John Krakoff, who was living in Atlanta at the time, documented some of the interesting leftovers from the old routes.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2018/02/former-alignments-of-ga-139-and-314.html

Looks like the last hurdle on the 75 toll lane project is completing the toll transition ramp at the Cobb cloverleaf? That is going to be a cluster #### because of the left handed merge a 1/2 mile before the 2+ HOV  Lanes! Whoever thought of that is a genius! (Sarcasm)! What p***es me off is whoever came up with that merge idea, probably got a bonus! GA DOT is Garbage!

Changing message LED signs, 285 westbound at Cobb Parkway.

(https://i.imgur.com/h0dpGKD.png?4)

(https://i.imgur.com/o3Ph53c.png?1)

Well, a little over a week ago, on their third attempt, GDOT's troops finally fixed that APL on northbound 285 approaching Chamblee-Tucker Road and I-85. It didn't take quite two years.

So, of course, they made the same mistake again on the other side of town. This isn't my side of Atlanta so I don't know when it happened, but I don't think it's been this way for long. Ironically, the next sign, at the 285-75 split, was also an incorrect APL which they corrected while adding a VMS for the Northwest Corridor reversible express roadway that'll be opening this summer. Here, they arguably made it worse, though it'd be easy to fix.
(https://i.imgur.com/V6IEqLd.jpg?1)


In fact, a while back they actually did make this same mistake on the northern approach to this very 285-75 interchange, and it was corrected promptly. Hopefully that'll be the case here.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FciJtkgx.jpg%3F1&hash=57e33a342ff93f477ddc70c6c87123be24755151)

https://www.myajc.com/blog/commuting/feds-give-184-million-for-400-toll-lanes/lkuWZvWnkbnEdLAaX65lmN/

Per GDOT's Facebook page on June 5, there's been a huge change in the layout of the 285-400 interchange. The previous versions I've seen had the 400 mainline passing over 285 and the eastbound 285 to northbound 400 ramp passing under the existing bridge, but this version has the 400 mainline going under 285, which will require replacement of the existing bridge. 😲 I'm wondering whether the other legacy 285 bridges over Glenridge and Peachtree Dunwoody will be replaced as well. I've previously expressed amazement that the design of this project retained so many of the existing bridges. However, the design was done before 2015's funding increase. Perhaps there's been a rethink

(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34512483_10156522425016096_415510675406716928_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=9339b0ca8cb5159503930742c4afcb39&oe=5BBED604)

Previous version:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbAOgy7j.jpg&hash=eb8fa18b28b8c3b32e140751175d77b10447c522)

I wonder where would the 400 toll lanes tie into the design of the interchange? Also I wonder if the 400 toll lanes are going to be elevated or made as a BS Patchwork project like the ones on IH 85?

Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 09, 2018, 12:15:10 PM
Also I wonder if the 400 toll lanes are going to be elevated or made as a BS Patchwork project like the ones on IH 85?

Judging from the estimated cost, probably neither. The $1.8 billion I remember for 400 is much more than the 85 project is costing but much less than the $6 billion estimated for the elevated top end 285 lanes, especially on a per-mile basis. And, per GDOT (http://www.dot.ga.gov/BuildSmart/Projects/Documents/MMIP/Projects/State%20Route%20400%20Express%20Lanes.pdf):

- Two elevated, barrier-separated express lanes in
each direction between I-285 and Spalding Drive
- Two buffer-separated express lanes in each
direction between Spalding Drive and McGinnis Ferry
Road
- One buffer-separated express lane in each
direction from McGinnis Ferry Road to McFarland
Parkway

Did GDOT ever get around to moving US19 through Atlanta?

@Tom958 thanks for the 411. Also I just saw that they are going to widen or replace 11 existing bridges along that route. I know at least 5 interchanges along that route that have needed a makeover for years!

BRT is coming to GA 400 via the new express lanes...

QuoteThe state will issue $100 million in bonds to build a 16-mile bus rapid transit line on Georgia 400 north of Interstate 285, Gov. Nathan Deal announced Tuesday.

The BRT line, which will stretch from I-285 to McFarland Parkway, will include four yet-to-be-announced, bus-only interchanges. State transportation officials are in the process of selecting locations for these interchanges and will begin purchasing the land necessary in fiscal year 2019 or 2020, according to a press release from Deal's office. The process of selecting a contractor to build the lanes will begin mid-2020.

The bus lanes are part of an already-announced $1.8 billion project to add express toll lanes to 400 and widen the highway.

http://www.mdjonline.com/news/deal-bus-rapid-transit-coming-to-georgia/article_64a98648-740b-11e8-93c1-3702a1e0d8bb.html

good, that is the only chance BRT has at being even decently used.
BRT on existing, non-dedicated lanes on 400? yeaaaaaa, forget that

Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on June 09, 2018, 07:11:49 PM
Did GDOT ever get around to moving US19 through Atlanta?

Nope. Not yet, at least (If they're even still thinking about doing it)...

Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on June 09, 2018, 07:11:49 PM
Did GDOT ever get around to moving US19 through Atlanta?

I hadn't heard of this. Where were they planning to move it?

GDOT: Wall collapse shouldn't impact toll lanes project in Cobb
https://www.ajc.com/news/traffic/gdot-wall-collapse-shouldn-impact-toll-lanes-project-cobb/TA43Hm0kwREAzKTdggis5L/

The collapse of a wall on a stretch of I-75 in Cobb County should not affect the opening of new toll lanes later this summer, the Georgia Department of Transportation said.

Those comments from GDOT spokeswoman Natalie Dale came hours after officials learned a retaining wall collapsed onto an unfinished portion of the Northwest Corridor Express Lanes along I-75 and Windy Hill Road in Cobb.

"We don't expect this to have any bearing on when the lanes open in the next two months,"  GDOT spokeswoman Natalie Dale said in a video posted on the agency's official Twitter account. "But of course, we will not open these lanes if we're not 100 percent confident that they're safe for travel."

(https://www.ajc.com/rf/image_large/Pub/p9/AJC/2018/06/25/Images/ExpressLanes.JPEG)


Gee, I dunno. The several-foot-wide void between nonstructural panels (or so says the GDOT spokesperson in their video) and a tieback wall is filled with,what, twenty feet of crushed stone? I don't see how it ever stood up in the first place. Obviously there's something I'm missing.  :hmmm:

That below grade segment will be a flooding spot 5 years upon 5 years of use. This project was a rushed project and won't do much to aid the congestion along that route, IMO

I dont know, the lanes might get more local use than normal just because there do seem to be more exits than the lanes on the southside.  Once you are in the lanes on the southside, you are stuck except for Jonesboro Road.  On the North lanes, I count 3 exits I think.

I just wish it was an extra lane or 2 in each segment, instead of being 2 after the 75/575 merge it should be 3 or 4, and the 1 lane each on 75 and 575 should be at least 2, if not at least 3 on the 75 segment.. 

I agree, and any given rush hour, there can be an accident that shuts down both lanes...

I just heard GA 400 Handles 230K vehicles a day. Why werent toll lanes done after the toll booth was demolished? And the 400 toll lane project will take 6 years to complete. That's ridiculous IMO. Dallas did underground toll lanes in 4 years or so? I'm glad I don't live up there

Meaning I'm glad I don't live along the rich 400 corridor. Also I just considered that the MARTA Train extension will be a part of the toll lane project, in that They will probably coincide, and be built at the same time. Now I see why it will take 6 years to complete the toll lanes on 400???

The widening project on GA 400 in Forsyth County, adding a third lane in each direction, has finally been completed and the new lane opened to traffic yesterday. Speaking from personal experience, this bit of added capacity was badly needed.

express lanes might not open up at the end of the month.

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/wall-collapse-exposed-larger-problem-on-i-75-lanes/807645008

The I-75/575 express lanes are set to officially open this Saturday, September 8, per the Governor's office (https://gov.georgia.gov/press-releases/2018-09-04/advisory-deal-announces-northwest-corridor-express-lanes-opening-date-and), and will be free of charge (Peach Pass still required) for the first two weeks.

Cool. Im curious how much it will cost to go one way on the new stretch from the Cobb cloverleaf to Kennisaw? I'm guessing plus or minus 20 bucks? Depending on traffic volume???

Yep, i would say 20 would be a good guess.
If it is $20 for the full stretch on 75, that is going to be good value for GDOT/SRTA at about $1.25 per mile.

I drove the express lanes going out of town this afternoon around 2:30.
They were sparsely used even as a free alternative but, then again, 75 was flowing at 61 mph out to 575.
I dash cam'ed my trip, might see if i cant pull the express lanes part out of the video.

I like them, but expansion isnt going to be possible as currently configured.  One full width shoulder(i would say 6-8') generally on the side away from 75 and only a 2' shoulder on the 75 side.   

My only excuse would be that not many Cobb residents have a peachpass yet? Most people who have the peach pass either live or have lived in Gwinnett county

Quote from: Tomahawkin on September 10, 2018, 11:21:26 PM
My only excuse would be that not many Cobb residents have a peachpass yet? Most people who have the peach pass either live or have lived in Gwinnett county

the only reason I have them for my three cars is my wife drives the 85 lanes twice weekly.

happy wife.....

Some friends and I drove and photographed it on Sunday, and I've posted nearly thirty of the best photos at FreewayJim's Facebook page. I supposed I could upload some to Imgur and post them here, but I haven't gotten around to it.

We call it the Tollercoaster. Spread it around!  :bigass:

Google Maps car was heading west on Cumberland Blvd going past Atlanta Road on Friday afternoon.

I believe the live toll rates on peachpass.com are broken, there is no way it is $1.55 to go all the way to Hickory Grove Road from Cumberland Blvd. 

Quote from: Georgia on September 24, 2018, 05:44:58 PM
I believe the live toll rates on peachpass.com are broken, there is no way it is $1.55 to go all the way to Hickory Grove Road from Cumberland Blvd. 

(45 minutes later, but still not especially late...)

Google's showing traffic on I-75 as green the entire way. There legitimately may not be that many people feeling the need to use the lanes tonight. Contrast with I-85 (orange or worse up to Beaver Ruin), showing over $12 from Chamblee-Tucker to GA 317 as I type this.

Yea, I just re-checked and it is still $1.55 to take the entire length of the 75 express lanes.

Traffic might not be bad tonight, but I forgot(i dont have kids) that Cobb schools(dont know about Cherokee) are out on fall break.

I paid to use the express lanes tonight, saved me a lot of stress given that 75NB was down 2 lanes given a re-paving project starting at Delk Road.  Well worth the $1.55 to keep my BP lower.

Drove by the 400/285 interchange today. Cranes are there, with some of the flyover piers a quarter way constructed. I wonder if GDOT Is planning on improving The Roswell road interchange as well as the Peachtee/Dunwoody road interchanges along with the project. Both intersections need huge upgrades, because the exit traffic at both interchanges @ 285 have residual traffic that slows 285. On second thought I'm guessing there will be collector/distributor lanes to help with those exits???

Quote from: Tomahawkin on October 27, 2018, 07:10:42 PM
Drove by the 400/285 interchange today. Cranes are there, with some of the flyover piers a quarter way constructed. I wonder if GDOT Is planning on improving The Roswell road interchange as well as the Peachtee/Dunwoody road interchanges along with the project. Both intersections need huge upgrades, because the exit traffic at both interchanges @ 285 have residual traffic that slows 285. On second thought I'm guessing there will be collector/distributor lanes to help with those exits???

Sure will be, starting at Roswell Road on the westside of the interchange and east of Ashford-Dunwoody on the eastside.

http://www.dot.ga.gov/BuildSmart/Projects/Documents/I285SR400/I-285ProjectMap.pdf

Old news: Back in June, GDOT released a new rendering of the 285-400 interchange. I posted about it then, but it just now occurred to me to search for a postable link to the image. The biggest change is that the 400 mainline will now cross under 285 rather than over, necessitating a new bridge on the 285 mainline.
(https://www.ajc.com/rf/image_large/Pub/p9/AJC/2018/08/10/Images/newsEngin.22737154_I285Ga400-GDOT-800x450.jpg)


Here's the previous version. When I attended a public meeting about the project, one of the engineers in attendance confirmed my guess that the path of the westbound 285 to northbound 400 ramp was the largest-radius curve that'd fit under the existing bridge.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbAOgy7j.jpg&hash=eb8fa18b28b8c3b32e140751175d77b10447c522)

The Tollercoaster, Atlanta roadgeeks' name for the Northwest Corridor reversible express lanes, has gone mainstream with this article in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Yay, us!

https://www.ajc.com/blog/commuting/tollercoaster-express-lanes-make-impact-metro-atlanta-traffic/dETPJfulaOA5D73xrq6vDP/

I asked the guy who wrote the article how he'd heard it, and he said it was at a GDOT meeting. They love it!

Quote from: Tom958 on November 15, 2018, 11:39:01 AM
The Tollercoaster, Atlanta roadgeeks' name for the Northwest Corridor reversible express lanes, has gone mainstream with this article in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Yay, us!

https://www.ajc.com/blog/commuting/tollercoaster-express-lanes-make-impact-metro-atlanta-traffic/dETPJfulaOA5D73xrq6vDP/

I asked the guy who wrote the article how he'd heard it, and he said it was at a GDOT meeting. They love it!

When I drove that stretch of I-75 back in March, I told my dad that I thought it was "Six Flags inspired".  I must have been thinking on the same lines then.

Can't quite put my finger on why, but I feel like they left a little bit of room for expansion here (https://goo.gl/maps/ZqDmwc3bso12). :bigass:

Does GDOT have any specific plans here or were they just playing it very safe with capacity when that runway was extended?

Quote from: jdb1234 on December 03, 2018, 10:14:52 AM

Quote from: Tom958 on November 15, 2018, 11:39:01 AM
The Tollercoaster, Atlanta roadgeeks' name for the Northwest Corridor reversible express lanes, has gone mainstream with this article in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Yay, us!

https://www.ajc.com/blog/commuting/tollercoaster-express-lanes-make-impact-metro-atlanta-traffic/dETPJfulaOA5D73xrq6vDP/

I asked the guy who wrote the article how he'd heard it, and he said it was at a GDOT meeting. They love it!

When I drove that stretch of I-75 back in March, I told my dad that I thought it was "Six Flags inspired".  I must have been thinking on the same lines then.

:rofl:

Those would also feel right at home on the freeways of L.A.! :sombrero: (I hope Caltrans is taking notes)

Quote from: Roadsguy on December 11, 2018, 11:00:11 AM
Can't quite put my finger on why, but I feel like they left a little bit of room for expansion here (https://goo.gl/maps/ZqDmwc3bso12). :bigass:

Does GDOT have any specific plans here or were they just playing it very safe with capacity when that runway was extended?

Once upon a time GDOT had plans for a Toronto-style local/express setup on the north side (at least) of I-285, but that got NIMBY'd back in the era the Northern Arc was also killed; this design may have been adopted in case it was continued around the perimeter.

As-is the C/D setup that's already there to the west and east may eventually get extended through the tunnel, or the westbound tunnel may end up getting used for an eventual MARTA extension although the current planning is to run DMUs along the existing rail line through Clayton County down to Lovejoy, with an interchange station with the existing MARTA lines at East Point (kind of like eBART) instead of extending the existing metro-type system.

Its 2019. For everyone in GA, which other projects other than the 400 toll lanes do you want to see addressed or talk about or speculate about. IMO there are a lot of interchanges with interstates in the Atlanta area that need to be redone! IH 20 and 285 along with F.I.B. In Fulton Co. Needs a massive makeover. Its a cluster#### even on Holliday's... Thoughts???

Quote from: Tomahawkin on January 02, 2019, 09:42:27 PM
Its 2019. For everyone in GA, which other projects other than the 400 toll lanes do you want to see addressed or talk about or speculate about. IMO there are a lot of interchanges with interstates in the Atlanta area that need to be redone! IH 20 and 285 along with F.I.B. In Fulton Co. Needs a massive makeover. Its a cluster#### even on Holliday's... Thoughts???

According to the Major Moves schedule, construction on the west 285 and 20 interchange wont begin until 2023.  They wont even pick the design-build contractor until late 2020 and the westside express lanes from 75 to 20 on the westside will be tied into the project. 

http://www.dot.ga.gov/PartnerSmart/Innovative/DesignBuild/IndustryForum/2018/GEC_I285W_Industry_Forum_Presentation.pdf#search=I-285%20and%20I-20

Oh wow. Thanks for the 411. Why is it taking so long? The 285-20 interchange in Fulton co. has been a disaster since the early 90s. If its because of a lack of funding? Then more roads need to be tolled in this State starting with IH 95. IMO This state is under a infrastructure crisis. Georgia should be proactive like Florida and Texas when it comes to this issue. I have said that since the Olympics

So, yesterday morning I was driving to work on I-85 north of Atlanta, and there was a VMS between Jimmy Carter and Spaghetti Junction displaying, IIRC, "Texting while driving is illegal in Georgia." Except on the top lines, there were a few green pixels along with the usual off white. Malfunction? No. It was a green dick and balls, vertical, the same height as the letters.

Quote from: Georgia on January 03, 2019, 04:55:38 PM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on January 02, 2019, 09:42:27 PM
Its 2019. For everyone in GA, which other projects other than the 400 toll lanes do you want to see addressed or talk about or speculate about. IMO there are a lot of interchanges with interstates in the Atlanta area that need to be redone! IH 20 and 285 along with F.I.B. In Fulton Co. Needs a massive makeover. Its a cluster#### even on Holliday's... Thoughts???

According to the Major Moves schedule, construction on the west 285 and 20 interchange wont begin until 2023.  They wont even pick the design-build contractor until late 2020 and the westside express lanes from 75 to 20 on the westside will be tied into the project. 

http://www.dot.ga.gov/PartnerSmart/Innovative/DesignBuild/IndustryForum/2018/GEC_I285W_Industry_Forum_Presentation.pdf#search=I-285%20and%20I-20

GDOT admitted they do not pick up the litter along I-20 West or East/
The repaving project on I-20 West a couple of years ago didn't include picking up the litter covering the shoulders.

In their attempt to focus on white or affluent parts of the metro, instead of Black or Hispanic areas like Chamblee...

they are so stupid to think that the state's infrastructure is judged as a whole, and everyone motorist ariving from every state Westward all the way to Calif. get their first impression of Atlanta from a tight-feeling I-20 with an insane amount of trash lining both sides. Out-of-staters won't forget that negligent upkeep even while in Buckhead or Country Club of the South. Embarrassing...

Quote from: Tomahawkin on January 03, 2019, 08:58:16 PM
Oh wow. Thanks for the 411. Why is it taking so long? The 285-20 interchange in Fulton co. has been a disaster since the early 90s. If its because of a lack of funding? Then more roads need to be tolled in this State starting with IH 95. IMO This state is under a infrastructure crisis. Georgia should be proactive like Florida and Texas when it comes to this issue. I have said that since the Olympics

and like NC, which maintains the 2nd largest highway system (~85,000 miles) in the country after Texas.


Georgia has no precedent to even know how to be proactive and plan ahead. They sat and did nothing as Metro Atlanta almost tripled in population from the late 80s to now.


They aren't out studying the problems, and everyone in Atlanta thinks building new freeways means plowing through existing neighborhoods like Freedom Parkway was supposed to do up to meet I-85.


People in Atlanta also think that the general public will protest any additions to out 1960's original hub- spoke layout like they did with the Northern Arc proposal, which would greatly relieve I-285.


3 million people in the Northern half of the metro have only one East-West freeway, I-285, which they must share with out-of-state truckers at that.


That's not right.


But GDOT is actively working on more now than ever in their history.


They also are raising their standards with some of the best quality work in their history, (i.e. I-75 North Express Lane project has overheads signs structures that are visually level, unlike the sloppy, leaning appearance of so many erected earlier.


You should contact every email address at GDOT you can and share your thought.


I have sent multiple requests over the years and have gotten them to fix lots of stuff.

But they'll never become what the proactive DOTs around the country are now.

Even 20 years from now....


Georgia is a "reactive" not a "proactive" sorta state. Nobody  thinks outside the box, and problems are ignored until they no longer can be.

Be happy that GDOT has better funding now than ever before and u

IH 20 has been shut down on both sides tonight for over 4 hours. As IH 20 is the only east-west interstate to encross GA, it is further necessitated that another outer perimeter be built 35-50 miles outside of IH 285. (Any closer would conflict with the expanding suburbs). I wish the state would get more proactive about this, especially with the commercial truck traffic out here!

Quote from: Tomahawkin on January 17, 2019, 11:08:42 PM
IH 20 has been shut down on both sides tonight for over 4 hours.

Where was this?

IH 20 and F.I.B. (Fulton Industrial Boulevard) traffic was backed up for over 7 miles in some cases

Quote from: Tom958 on September 11, 2018, 06:20:57 AM
Some friends and I drove and photographed it on Sunday, and I've posted nearly thirty of the best photos at FreewayJim's Facebook page. I supposed I could upload some to Imgur and post them here, but I haven't gotten around to it.

We call it the Tollercoaster. Spread it around!  :bigass:

Quote from: Tom958 on November 15, 2018, 11:39:01 AM
The Tollercoaster, Atlanta roadgeeks' name for the Northwest Corridor reversible express lanes, has gone mainstream with this article in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Yay, us!

https://www.ajc.com/blog/commuting/tollercoaster-express-lanes-make-impact-metro-atlanta-traffic/dETPJfulaOA5D73xrq6vDP/

I asked the guy who wrote the article how he'd heard it, and he said it was at a GDOT meeting. They love it!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KJBvkC2REL0

Freewayjim just uploaded a new road video yesterday which showcases the new "The Tollercoaster" - and has the phrase in its title and within the video. I also hope this phrase becomes mainstream to the point where even the everyday locals and commuters might call it that.

After watching that video, I can say those new Express Lanes look absolutely beautiful, no doubt about that. I am very excited, being able to see the finished product of all this construction, and it truly looks great. It does look a bit like driving on a fun rollercoaster, hence I could see how that name could have been come up with. This is definitely a fascinating marvel of infrastructure, and I hope that it proves to be successful in facilitating traffic flow and reducing traffic congestion on these stretches of I-75 and I-575. This may indeed be signifying the new era in Metro Atlanta transportation in regards to Express lanes, and hopefully it will prevail in helping unclog the highways there that are choked with traffic. I have yet to have a chance to go on the new express lanes in real life (including the other set on I-75 in the southern Atlanta Metro Area), but now being able to see what it looks like online, it is incredibly mesmerizing.

Anyone notice that half of the HOV striping has been removed from the connector? Anyone know why? I heard about 6-7 years ago that the plan was to convert them into the same toll lane format that currently exists on IH 85 In Gwinnett County. Anyone hear anything about this?

So I've driven past these signs a few times now, on the Spring Street exit from northbound 75/85:

https://goo.gl/maps/pFfpQBxeGS92
https://goo.gl/maps/sfWHMHaraMw

They seem to suggest US 29 runs on the Spring/West Peachtree couplet, yet 29 runs through downtown on concurrencies with US 19/41 and US 78/278. Do these signs date back from a time when that was the case? If so, when did that change, and exactly what roads did 29 use?

And for that matter, did US 19 ever use that couplet? The BGS from the interstate seems to suggest it (https://goo.gl/maps/ELY9HcnpBVS2), though it appears to be relatively new compared to those signs on the exit.

Anyone seen the 400/285 interchange project? Hopefully the bridge beams start getting installed this summer. There is a lot left to do. My Big boy gut tells me that it may not be finished til 2021 because of all the rain and demolition of rock in the area. It reminds me of the 22/65 interchange in Birmingham with all the rock that is adjacent to the MARTA overpass...

GDOT's latest major signage screwup, on I-20 eastbound approaching downtown Atlanta. After seeing a friend's photo of this yesterday, I thought that perhaps the erroneous sign had been designed and fabricated correctly, but installed in the wrong place. Now, though, it's obvious to me that someone thought that what you see here is correct. Wow.

As you can see, the Windsor Street sign has arrows pointing up and to the right, directing traffic across the path of vehicles following the down arrow to the McDaniel Street exit. That's why I thought that this sign had been intended for the point of divergence of the Windsor Street offramp, not half a mile upstream as we're seeing here.

Beyond that, even if the arrows on the Windsor Street sign were pointing down, it's against the 2009 MUTCD to sign an option lane in that manner. Moreover, while  has recently deviated from that part of the MUTCD (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=21196.msg2262230#msg2262230) by using both white-on-green and black-on-yellow arrows at the point of divergence instead of two black-on-yellows, GDOT has stuck to the MUTCD scheme of using only one black-on-yellow arrow in advance of the exit, with the option lane being hidden. I'm explaining this not just as a matter of consistency: the reason that the current MUTCD scheme of hiding the option lane instead of denoting it with a white-on-green arrow is that a significant proportion of drivers misinterpret the white-on-green arrow as denoting a lane drop, and thus make unnecessary lane changes, sometimes in a panic. At this location, there are six eastbound lanes, of which four can or must use three exits over the next three quarters of a mile, and message overload precludes signing the lane assignments in detail. This is a place to *avoid* prompting dubious lane changes.

On a more trivial note, the Windsor Street sign also has a full-width exit number tab. Some find it aesthetically appealing, but it's inconsistent with current GDOT practice. Myself, I'd probably consider it an endearing little quirk if the rest of the sign wasn't so badly designed, but I've developed an attitude about it now.

(https://i.imgur.com/Q9AaLQ1.jpg)

https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/extra-work-delays-285-400-interchange-project/6E4kWhXnyVIpixWImcyXeK/

It is going to be 2021 before the 400 and 285 interchange is done, lets just go ahead and get that out of the way.

I didn't know there was a DDI being built @ Abernathy. IMO They should totally gut the Roswell Rd bridge and redo it...

Well, elevated toll lanes are in plans for 285. 2 additional toll lanes in both directions from IH 20 in Decatur to the other side of IH 20 in West Atlanta. 300+ properties and businesses will have to be cleared for this to happen. I think the earliest completion time is 2026 through 2028. Dont take it to the bank on the completion dates. I just wonder if they are going to have higher toll lane flyovers at both Spaghetti Junction and the Cobb Cloverleaf??? Anyone know? Or have more 411???

Quote from: Tomahawkin on May 12, 2019, 08:44:24 PM
Well, elevated toll lanes are in plans for 285. 2 additional toll lanes in both directions from IH 20 in Decatur to the other side of IH 20 in West Atlanta.

Actually, it's to be a single lane in each direction on the east and west sides, but two lanes up 400. There are a series of public information meetings this week. Perhaps I'll see you there.

Only a Single lane? IMO, that would be just putting a bandaid on a bullet wound. 285 would still be congested on a regular basis because of the high traffic and truck volumes, especially on weekends...

On the westside perimeter, they really need to add a lane and fix the 20 interchange.  One express lane may work if they can get the truck situation improved as it really bogs down around the interchanges.  C/D lanes starting at Hollowell Parkway and making all movements right side only would also help.  285N to 20W is really killed in the afternoon by 18 wheelers having to cross from right to left after Cascade exit.

285 regardless of where you're at is always congested at one time or another. 80 percent of the interchanges on that interstate cant handle the traffic volumes for at least 12 hours out of the day. And I'm putting that lightly. Truck drivers avoid that interstate during the week and use it on weekends which bleeps up traffic on weekends when GDOT wants to do paving work on Saturday afternoons.... OY

On the westside express lanes, I really hope they put the midpoint exit at South Cobb Drive; the only other 2 options i really see are Atlanta Road and Church Street.
highly doubt they would put more than one mid-stream access point given that it is 10 to 11 miles.

Quote from: Tomahawkin on May 13, 2019, 11:48:23 PM
285 regardless of where you're at is always congested at one time or another. 80 percent of the interchanges on that interstate cant handle the traffic volumes for at least 12 hours out of the day. And I'm putting that lightly. Truck drivers avoid that interstate during the week and use it on weekends which bleeps up traffic on weekends when GDOT wants to do paving work on Saturday afternoons.... OY

It has gotten to the point to just use I-75 through town versus taking I-285 around town.

I often do that to avoid 285 on weekends when GDOT Likes to do "Suprise" paving projects where they take away 3 lanes. I work my way around the connector by using GA 155 or U.S. 23, and if I really want to get Funky with it I will "act hard down the Boulevard" to stay away from the connector and the IH 20 hellish bottleneck, lol

!!!Fair Warning!!! After driving through the 400/285 interchange earlier it seems as if they are going to close the ramp from 285W to 400N on weekends. This causes backups at the ramps to Peachtree and Ashford Dunwoody roads. It's a dangerous area to be in because the traffic on the ramps backs onto the interstate. Expect many wrecks there on weekends...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBMdzn5Hqfk

A video of the I-285 express lanes on the Eastside.

Thanks for the video. Speaking as someone who lives and works in that area of 285. This is another band aid on a bullet wound. I was disappointed to see only one interchange added and only one lane added. 285 will still be conjested in the main lanes during rush hours from 6-10am and 3-8pm. This is not enough. The toll prices on this stretch will probably average 8-10 dollars 1 way during peak hours...

Complete lack of access to/from US 78 is certainly......a choice that was made.

Good damn point. Plus that interchange needs to be totally redone. Those left lane on ramps from 78 to 285 with 400 feet of merging distance is another why 285 is hell during rush hour. This is looking more and more liked a rushed concept. This should have been done 20 years ago. Also no plans for any express bus parking or A MARTA train route that could run parallel to 285 in the future. This is a total rushed job. With no imput

The Georgia DOT really needs to re-evaluate the traffic patterns in Cobb with the tollercoaster open.  I was at Terrell Mill facing NE waiting to turn onto Powers Ferry north at about 5:30pm on a weekday, and the light only let about 4 cars per lane from Terrell Mill to go when they were backed up 10 or more per lane.  I've seen Terrell Mill backed up there lots every evening rush hour.

That's not suprising. Traffic on every surface street in both Cobb and Fulton counties is pure hell at rush hour...

Northwest Express southern entrance/exit ramp planned for Akers Mill Road.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/million-grant-awarded-for-express-lane-exit-ramp-cobb/Z79t0i4fTzvu2vxyM7bKCN/?ecmp=cobbco&utm_medium=social&utm_source=cobb_fb&fbclid=IwAR31tNQdkawKVNvKKw7HPGX5t1XWKOJlne66DNO4Gn8hnTE41c9i50pJ7w8

I watched the 285 (East Atlanta) express lanes video again, and I need to ask if it's me or does this project look like a utter diaster at the 285/78 interchange? Hence the fact that there is no ramp access from the toll lanes to get onto US 78. Only option would be to cross 4 lanes of traffic on 285 to access the current US 78 exit ramps, which is no picnic to do during any hour of the day...???

Quote from: Georgia on July 29, 2019, 08:26:13 PM
Northwest Express southern entrance/exit ramp planned for Akers Mill Road.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/million-grant-awarded-for-express-lane-exit-ramp-cobb/Z79t0i4fTzvu2vxyM7bKCN/?ecmp=cobbco&utm_medium=social&utm_source=cobb_fb&fbclid=IwAR31tNQdkawKVNvKKw7HPGX5t1XWKOJlne66DNO4Gn8hnTE41c9i50pJ7w8

Thanks- - I'd missed this. It's such an obvious thing to do, especially with southward-oriented HOV ramps already in place there. I'd assumed that the reason they hadn't already been built was that gradient of the ramps would be unacceptably steep. Maybe they changed the definition of acceptable... or maybe replacement of the original 285 CD bridge over 75 helped in some way.

Now for the missing HOV connection to Fourteenth Street.

In doing work to put in a traffic light on Powers Ferry between Terrell Mill and Delk Road, they've been stripping the top layer of the pavement and repaving-- except they stripped the northbound lanes Friday and left them stripped the whole weekend, which wouldn't be quite so bad except that they left sharp edges, the kind that still jolt your car when you drive over them at 5mph.

Grumble mutter.

I am just hoping that GDOT and SRTA have the common sense to link all the express lanes together.  If i dont want to drive with the unwashed masses from Acworth to I-20 on the west side, I should have the option.  With all the 285 lanes coming, i have seen no mention of their inter-linking the projects.

The only linkage of the future express lanes linkage is top end 285 and 400. I haven't seen or heard anything else. Hopefully we will find out something in the next 6 months. I curious to see if we get added toll lane flyovers @ Spaghetti Junction? Which I think is highly impossible with all the development there...

Anyone know the Estimated completion of the 400/285 interchange? Driving by it this week, it still looks like another 18 months until completion at the earliest because of the task of having to blast throw all that rock that is adjacent to 285 and Peachtree Dunwoody road...

Quote from: Tomahawkin on September 06, 2019, 02:37:27 PM
Anyone know the Estimated completion of the 400/285 interchange? Driving by it this week, it still looks like another 18 months until completion at the earliest because of the task of having to blast throw all that rock that is adjacent to 285 and Peachtree Dunwoody road...

according to the GDOT website for the project(yes, i knoooooow), sometime in 2020, but it has to be late '20 at best.  lot of work left to go. 

http://www.dot.ga.gov/BS/Projects/SpecialProjects/I285SR400

It has to be late December 2020. Unless they are going to open up a few ramps at a time? The preparation for the 400 toll lanes that will start in that area will probably extend the construction of the interchange, IMO

Why does the I-285/I-20 interchange have so many cameras?

Does anyone know what GDOT Is doing with the construction on IH 75 between Forest Pkwy and the 285 interchange? I'm hoping they are making collector/distributor lanes next to the main lanes on 75 to improve access to the 285 EB and WB ramps. That area is hell, especially at night because its a 1 mile merge and there is no overhead lighting, which is beyond me! SMH

Looking on GeoPI, there is  a 75SB project working on CD lanes from 285 to Forest Parkway.  Problem is, 2029 is construction start date so that isnt it( PROJECT # 0012759). 

Found it, Project # 713210, 75 NB CD lanes from Forest Parkway to 285.  NTP was 7/18 and it is an Archer Western project. 

Project summary is:  These improvements include reconfiguration of the Forest Parkway at I-75 Interchange ramps and the I-285 at I-75 Interchange ramps, operational improvements to the I-75 corridor between Forest Parkway and I-285, and reconfiguration of the Frontage Road along the east side of I-75. In summary, approximately 3.26 miles of interchange ramp modifications and new collector-distributor adjacent to northbound I-75 connecting to Forest Parkway and I-285 in Clayton County.

Thanks for the 411. This should have been done 30 years ago! I noticed the frontage road being push away. Are there any pictures of the finished product? Also Im guessing that there is also future planning of toll lanes being added there 10 years from now?

Quote from: Tomahawkin on November 12, 2019, 11:16:26 PM
Thanks for the 411. This should have been done 30 years ago! I noticed the frontage road being push away. Are there any pictures of the finished product? Also Im guessing that there is also future planning of toll lanes being added there 10 years from now?

Ha, looking in the project files for the southbound project, there are letters to various municipalities starting in 1996 about the "upcoming project" that will end up being 35ish years old when completed.  PE work was started in 1995. 

Not really any good pictures of the project that I saw. 

Quote from: Georgia on November 13, 2019, 02:15:14 AM
Not really any good pictures of the project that I saw.

https://movinghenryforward.org/2019/06/04/travels-tuesday-georgia-dot-awards-76-4-million-dollar-contract-for-i-75-cd-system-in-clayton-county/?fbclid=IwAR2GrNvzQ1OFKMVRHYdwzfyaYijdoP8LwCBoc0wwne3pF5ciP_2ZEQzFzcs, which leads to https://por.dot.ga.gov/projectInfo/713210-/JPG/713210_PIOH%20Display.pdf

I must've found that link here.  :-D

The footprint of the project is very small, and it doesn't involve replacing the 1959 bridges carrying GA 331 over I-75.

Quote from: Georgia on November 13, 2019, 02:15:14 AM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on November 12, 2019, 11:16:26 PM
Thanks for the 411. This should have been done 30 years ago! I noticed the frontage road being push away. Are there any pictures of the finished product? Also Im guessing that there is also future planning of toll lanes being added there 10 years from now?

Ha, looking in the project files for the southbound project, there are letters to various municipalities starting in 1996 about the "upcoming project" that will end up being 35ish years old when completed.  PE work was started in 1995. 

Not really any good pictures of the project that I saw. 

Incidentally, that sounds like right around the time that the old northbound exit 79 to the frontage road was taken out. (I know it was before 2000 because the exit was gone before the mileage-based renumbering happened.) I wonder if that was related.

Thanks for that download. This was long overdue. The 331 bridges need to be gutted as well as that antiquated/turd green S.R. 85 bridge that ramps on to IH 75 underneath S.R. 331

I'm wondering if the stoplight installed at Paper Mill Road and Woodlawn Drive is ever going to be activated.  It was installed something like 2 years ago and has done nothing but blink ever since.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-v0jrh2RqY

Here is an aminated video of the future improvements at the I-285/I-20 East Interchange in Atlanta.

Thanks for the 411 on that video. Those collector/distributor lane extensions and flyovers were 25 years overdue. I hope the money to fund this project and the 285/75 south of Atlanta road projects are being funded by money collected from the recent toll lane projects???

How soon are they looking to do the 285/20 eastside project?

Quote from: Buck87 on November 21, 2019, 09:31:45 AM
How soon are they looking to do the 285/20 eastside project?

Construction in 2022.

I posted screenshots of the plan sheets on Facebook last night and went to the public info meeting tonight. Long story short: I and everyone I know who's looked at the plans is concerned with capacity and weaving problems on the eastbound CD. Have a look yourself and comment! at https://majormobilityga.com/projects/eastsideic/.

Also, there is no westbound CD. They call it one, but it's not. It's braided ramps.

Dammit. I got teased! This stuff needs to be done ASAP.  I'm sure truck drivers will agree

Quote from: Tom958 on November 21, 2019, 10:20:36 PM
I and everyone I know who's looked at the plans is concerned with capacity and weaving problems on the eastbound CD.

Agreed, that's the first thing I noticed when looking at the rendering. It doesn't look much different than the current setup leading to Wesley Chapel. My sister uses 20 eastbound on her afternoon commute and that whole section from 285 to Panola is consistently the worst freeway traffic she sees, though she's typically though there by 3pm before it gets too terrible.

Quote from: Tomahawkin on November 20, 2019, 11:51:44 AM
I hope the money to fund this project and the 285/75 south of Atlanta road projects are being funded by money collected from the recent toll lane projects???

The MMIP projects are being funded with the additional gas tax revenue from Georgia passing the transportation funding act of 2015 (HB170). Toll collections go to pay back the bonds borrowed to construct them.

Thanks for the 411 about what does the Money from tolls gets allocated to, as well as the gas tax. Its about time I see where the hell that tax revenue goes to? Those taxes should have been implemented after the Olympics came here, IMO

Just saw that several of the bridges along IH 285 east in Dekalb county will be replaced starting in late 2021. This includes the outdated Covington highway bridge. I wonder is going to correlate with the toll lane project (from IH 20 to Henderson Rd?) that will be constructed afterwards??? Also there are plans to improve the interchange at 285 and P.I.B. (Peachtree Industrial blvd). That interchange should have been improved 20 years ago, IMO...

Three weeks later...

Quote from: Tomahawkin on December 07, 2019, 01:55:55 PM
Just saw that several of the bridges along IH 285 east in Dekalb county will be replaced starting in late 2021. This includes the outdated Covington highway bridge. I wonder is going to correlate with the toll lane project (from IH 20 to Henderson Rd?) that will be constructed afterwards???

Yes, it will.

QuoteAlso there are plans to improve the interchange at 285 and P.I.B. (Peachtree Industrial blvd). That interchange should have been improved 20 years ago, IMO...

The scheme for 285 at PIB strikes me as marginal at best and possibly counterproductive. It involves separating the loop offramp from WB 285 to SB 141 from the mainline and combining it with the ramp to NB 141. Doing this will shorten the weave distance back to Buford Highway, which is too short already. They'll also remove the slip ramp to Flowers Road, which they could do as a standalone.

Other than removing that slip ramp, I don't think there are any minor improvements to that interchange that are worth doing. 

@Tom, I agree with you on what's going to happen with 285 and PIB. Also Why the #### did they build a new subdivision right next to that interchange? Knowing that is a high priority corridor that needs drastic improvements... I just dont get it...

Saw earlier on the future 400 express lanes project that there will be a DDI at Holcomb Bridge and 400 probably in the next 4 years. Looking at all the work needed to be done on GA 400 for 2 Express lanes in each direction, it may not be done til 2026 at the earliest, considering its taking 4+ years to do the 400/285 interchange. Retractable roofed stadiums get completed in 2 years now. I guess GDOT ran out of money for the 400/285 interchange? Due to the 85 bridge collapse???

Found out that the 75 and 285 C/D ramp improvements near Forest Pkwy. Should be done in 14 months.  The 285/20 Flyovers (2) and C/D improvements from Snapfinger Creek will start in late 2022 which is upsetting because improvements at that interchange need to start ASAP. The backups there are the one if the reasons why 285 south from Doraville to IH 20 start at 3pm and last til 8pm. More 411 on the layout of these designs can be seen on GDOT's website

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyHoyGsn9FQ

Here is a visualization of the I-285 Top-End express lanes in Atlanta.

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on January 21, 2020, 01:45:05 PM
Here is a visualization of the I-285 Top-End express lanes in Atlanta.

I went to a public information meeting today, and the display boards were excellent. Hopefully they'll appear online soon, if they haven't already.

Quote from: Buck87I find exit 90 on I-20 in Covington to be pretty interesting. When was this configuration built?

1992. http://bridgereports.com/1100786

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on January 21, 2020, 01:45:05 PM
Here is a visualization of the I-285 Top-End express lanes in Atlanta.

Is that a 6 level stack at the GA 400 interchange? And here I thought our express lane interchanges in Texas were the craziest things around.

I love the 285 toll lane project. Both interchanges at 400 and Spaghetti Junction will be 6 level stacks and in addition there will be led lighting on the elevated toll lane sections. As dangerous as 285 is, its beyond me as to why there is no lighting on one of the most congested interstates in the country

That I-285 Top-end visualization is awesome and blows my mind. I will say tho that it does seem like a waste to have the express lanes start and end in the middle of I-285 when for a majority of their length they are on the outside of I-285. Additionally, we all know that these lanes will certainly be extended further down I-285 in the near future so why not just plan ahead?

That is awesome! I can not wait to see this in more states.

Jmiles. The 285 Express lanes In east Dekalb county are not going to be elevated. They will be part of the main interstate from Henderson Rd down to the IH 20 or Flat Shoals interchange. Which I think is a mistake IMO

Quote from: Tomahawkin on January 21, 2020, 11:26:48 PM
Jmiles. The 285 Express lanes In east Dekalb county are not going to be elevated. They will be part of the main interstate from Henderson Rd down to the IH 20 or Flat Shoals interchange. Which I think is a mistake IMO

Agreed. Might as well be consistent.

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on January 21, 2020, 01:45:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyHoyGsn9FQ

Here is a visualization of the I-285 Top-End express lanes in Atlanta.

Thanks for posting this.  LOL at GDOT, that can't be the final design.  1:50-2:25, note how they've combined the new westbound 285 to northbound 75 ramps into the old south 75 to east 285 ramp, and a backwards connection to the new east 285 express.  Other than moving wrong way drunk drivers on the eastbound 285 & express to 75, it doesn't have utility.  Oops.  Good thing they turned off the comments.

Sorry, but this will still be woefully under capacity.  It's like GDOT designs for demand 10 minutes into the future.  I'm normally understanding about budget limitations, but with hardly a grid system and so much funneled onto just a few interstate corridors, this ain't gonna cut it.  Terrible traffic so widespread is the biggest reason why I will never move back to Atlanta.  Though I am certain y'all will find a way to continue to survive without me....

Quote from: armadillo speedbump on January 23, 2020, 07:44:04 PM
Thanks for posting this.  LOL at GDOT, that can't be the final design.  1:50-2:25, note how they've combined the new westbound 285 to northbound 75 ramps into the old south 75 to east 285 ramp, and a backwards connection to the new east 285 express.  Other than moving wrong way drunk drivers on the eastbound 285 & express to 75, it doesn't have utility.  Oops.  Good thing they turned off the comments.

Do you not realize that the northwest corridor express lanes are one way and reversible?

Speaking of that, how have those northwest corridor express lanes been working out now that they're up and running?

Quote from: Buck87 on January 23, 2020, 09:52:05 PM
Speaking of that, how have those northwest corridor express lanes been working out now that they're up and running?

Apparently pretty well. From what I've heard, they've shaved the peaks off of rush hours quite convincingly. I think it's fair to say that most people were skeptics about them, but they've worked better than people expected. I expect the current study for I-85 north to recommend something similar, though likely two-way like the ones proposed for 400.

How about that Outer Perimeter?

Quote from: sprjus4 on January 24, 2020, 09:29:12 AM
How about that Outer Perimeter?

I'd be happy if they just build expressways that don't go to Atlanta, since as is every expressway in the state save I-95 is designed to funnel traffic to Atlanta.  E.g.:

Calhoun to Rome to Carrolton to Newnan.

Columbus to Macon/Warner Robins to Augusta.

Rome to Cartersville to Canton to Cumming to GA 316 east of Lawrenceville to Athens to Augusta.

I'll stop here since this is turning fictional.

2 words for a outer perimeter: Pipe Dream.

Quote from: Tom958 on January 23, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
Do you not realize that the northwest corridor express lanes are one way and reversible?

Obviously not.  Oops.  Thanks for the explanation.

What is average toll rate for the Toller-Coaster? The 2.00 toll on the 75 toll lanes south of Atlanta is great and saved me 30 minutes of being in rush hour traffic on route to Macon

Quote from: Finrod on January 24, 2020, 11:22:50 AM

Quote from: sprjus4 on January 24, 2020, 09:29:12 AM
How about that Outer Perimeter?

I'd be happy if they just build expressways that don't go to Atlanta, since as is every expressway in the state save I-95 is designed to funnel traffic to Atlanta.  E.g.:

Calhoun to Rome to Carrolton to Newnan.

Columbus to Macon/Warner Robins to Augusta.

Rome to Cartersville to Canton to Cumming to GA 316 east of Lawrenceville to Athens to Augusta.

I'll stop here since this is turning fictional.

Expressway or freeway?

For expressway, I would define that as a 4-lane divided highway with limited or no traffic signals, and high quality design.

In that case, the Fall Line Freeway (not freeway) was recently completed between Columbus and Augusta, largely 4-lane divided 65 mph highway, with limited 55 mph segments and limited traffic signals. I've never tried it, but if I'm ever approaching Atlanta near rush hour heading to I-85 south from I-20 or vice versa, I may try it.

Quote from: Buck87 on January 21, 2020, 08:58:02 AM
I find exit 90 on I-20 in Covington to be pretty interesting. When was this configuration built?

In most cases a loop ramp takes you around roughly 270 degrees to make a left turn, but here there's a loop that takes you around 360 degrees to continue straight (relative to the direction you were going) / make a slight right turn (relative to the freeway)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200121/8197ddc9d164adacddc63f9354d86d8c.jpg)

VS988

I have also always found that interchange to be incredibly fascinating. The way all of those ramps are configured is endlessly intriguing to me.

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on January 21, 2020, 01:45:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyHoyGsn9FQ

Here is a visualization of the I-285 Top-End express lanes in Atlanta.

That looks absolutely amazing. I wasn't aware of those plans up until now, but that is very exciting. Hopefully it will do some good work in alleviating traffic congestion.

Camp Creek DDI opened up this morning and seemed to be flowing decently at 7am and 11am when I drove the project. 

At the Camp DDI is it 2 main lanes, and 2 turn lanes in each direction??? I dont think it's going to help much at peak times with all the 18 wheeler traffic. The one on Jimmy Carter has been done for almost 10 years, and traffic still sucks there! Because of all the red light signals nearby on both sides if the interchange.

Sandy Springs is finally planning on doing something about Hammond Drive between Roswell Road and Glenridge Drive; there will be an open house in two weeks, Wednesday Feb. 26.  What I don't see is any definite assurances that they will actually add any lanes.  Reversible lanes just do not cut it, IMHO.

https://patch.com/georgia/sandysprings/sandy-springs-hosting-open-house-feb-26-hammond-dr

https://www.reporternewspapers.net/2019/11/09/sandy-springs-buys-another-house-for-hammond-drive-widening-project/

http://www.sandyspringsga.gov/Home/Components/FacilityDirectory/FacilityDirectory/186/202

http://www.sandyspringsga.gov/home/showdocument?id=20690

With all the rain Since November: I have a feel that the 285/400 interchange wont be done til summer of 2021. And I only seeing it open at 1 section at a time. I think the 400 south to 285 east overhead will be the first to open? Followed by the 400 north to 285 east over peachtree/Dunwoody road. I believe they will prolong the project to incorporate the future 285/400overhead Express lanes flyover ramps 5 years from now? Anyone have any thoughts or have heard anything from town meetings???

Just found out that the 285/20 interchange flyover project in DeKalb county is not supposed to begin until 2022, and will take 3 years to complete. I was hoping that this would start sooner because that interchange starts the traffic backup on 285 SB at 230 in the afternoons. So no 285 traffic relief until the 400/285 interchange is completed and that's just a temporary band aid, IMO

Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 27, 2020, 09:20:49 AM
Just found out that the 285/20 interchange flyover project in DeKalb county is not supposed to begin until 2022, and will take 3 years to complete. I was hoping that this would start sooner because that interchange starts the traffic backup on 285 SB at 230 in the afternoons. So no 285 traffic relief until the 400/285 interchange is completed and that's just a temporary band aid, IMO

every road project is a temporary band aid.

Quote from: SSF on June 30, 2020, 03:35:31 PM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 27, 2020, 09:20:49 AM
Just found out that the 285/20 interchange flyover project in DeKalb county is not supposed to begin until 2022, and will take 3 years to complete. I was hoping that this would start sooner because that interchange starts the traffic backup on 285 SB at 230 in the afternoons. So no 285 traffic relief until the 400/285 interchange is completed and that's just a temporary band aid, IMO

every road project is a temporary band aid.

With this mentality then so is every other piece of infrastructure as it will eventually have to be replaced and/or upgraded in the future.

I agree because there are so many badly needed bridge/interchange improvements needed along IH 285, it might might be 10 years before traffic is feasible on that whole 60 mile perimeter. I only know of 5 bridges that have had major work done to them or rebuilt altogether. The Roswell Road Bridge is outdated by 25+ years IMO

Macland Road widening from Powder Springs to Dallas is going to start next week with the usual clearing and grubbing and force account utility relocates. 

Slated to take 3 years according to the GDOT news release.

https://mailchi.mp/dot/state-route-360macland-rd-widening-and-reconstruction-project-to-begin-next-week-in-cobb-and-paulding-counties

Quote from: Tomahawkin on June 30, 2020, 04:55:48 PM
I agree because there are so many badly needed bridge/interchange improvements needed along IH 285, it might might be 10 years before traffic is feasible on that whole 60 mile perimeter. I only know of 5 bridges that have had major work done to them or rebuilt altogether. The Roswell Road Bridge is outdated by 25+ years IMO

In recent years they've been replacing a lot of the bridges over I-85 from I-985 to South Carolina, and maybe south of Atlanta, but I don't drive that way often.  From what I understand it's part of 6-laning I-85 through Georgia.

I not certain if I asked this on here a few years ago but has anyone noticed that the overhead HOV Lane signs on both IH 75 and IH 85 have been removed throughout the city? I'm sensing that those HOV lanes will be converted into toll lanes in the not to distant future. IMO...

Does anyone know a ETA of the 400/285 interchange completion? My Big Boy Gut tells me that it maybe next Summer??? I think that they are doing preliminary work to tie in the 400 toll lanes into it which has delayed completion, IMO.

Quote from: Tomahawkin on August 08, 2020, 11:55:19 AM
Does anyone know a ETA of the 400/285 interchange completion? My Big Boy Gut tells me that it maybe next Summer??? I think that they are doing preliminary work to tie in the 400 toll lanes into it which has delayed completion, IMO.

GDOT's FAQ for the project (http://www.dot.ga.gov/BuildSmart/Projects/ProjectDocuments/I-285%20and%20SR%20400%20Improvements%20(Transform%20285400)/FAQ/285_400%20FAQ.pdf), last updated just a couple weeks ago, suggests late 2021 or early 2022.

Cheesewhiz! I think it's going to continue onto the 400 Express lane project. Hence the delay. In other words IMO Both projects are tied in together as well as adding a MARTA Rail extension up to Alpharetta...

Quote from: Tomahawkin on August 08, 2020, 02:31:12 PM
Cheesewhiz! I think it's going to continue onto the 400 Express lane project. Hence the delay. In other words IMO Both projects are tied in together as well as adding a MARTA Rail extension up to Alpharetta...

From what I've seen on MARTA and GDOT's websites, the rail extension has been shelved in favor of a "bus rapid transit" system. The buses would presumably use the 400 express lanes and run north from the North Springs MARTA station. This video is a good visualization of what it will look like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpY1Hbx3raI&feature=youtu.be

With 400 planned to be 14 lanes wide in some places, it really makes me wonder why it was never given an interstate designation (such as I-385 or I-585). My best guess is that it was originally tolled ITP, but that didn't happen until the 90s anyway and has since been removed.

This article is about a group trying to gather momentum for an Atlanta version of the Big Dig, which would put a deck above I-75/I-85:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/midtown-interstate-deck-supporters-seek-public-input/JUDOGF5ZKREMDJPVI7ZJDAM25U/%3foutputType=amp

Here is a video from GDOT of the proposed rendering of the I-20/I-285 West interchange in Atlanta.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2esu2SRIKM

Thanks for the upload. That interchange improvement is 25 years past due!

Watched the video! I love this interchange improvement! I hope they add more lighting to both interstates in that area! I'm guessing this will be a 3 year construction project. Also I wonder if some of the funding for these projects are coming from the revenue collected from the toll lanes? If so, those 13+ dollar rates on IH85 during both AM and PM rush hours are starting to pay dividends...

Thank god all the left hand exits are gonna be eliminated, i know all tractor trailer drivers will be thrilled. 

Yes, those single lane left hand ramps are hell! I'm hoping that the ones at 285 and 78 are in plans to be eliminated when they add toll lanes to 285 in East Dekalb

Now if they could just get rid of all left-handed exit and entrance ramps nationwide. Yes, I realize that is a pipe dream worthy of Fictional Highways, but it would make me happy.

This driveway on Powers Ferry Road between Delk Road and Terrell Mill Road is proving problematic with the new stoplight put in there:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9214584,-84.4676531,3a,75y,206.56h,74.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2ZmBbY_eRNpVwrXFVNz3wg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Just to the south of that driveway is now a stoplight with a Wendy's behind it, so all it takes is 2 cars stopped at the stoplight and they're already starting to block that driveway.  I've seen 4x4 trucks pull out of there and nearly cause accidents.  IMHO that driveway should be closed and a new one that connects to the new road that goes to the Wendy's et al should be opened in its place.

Quote from: Finrod on September 14, 2020, 01:35:33 AM
This driveway on Powers Ferry Road between Delk Road and Terrell Mill Road is proving problematic with the new stoplight put in there:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9214584,-84.4676531,3a,75y,206.56h,74.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2ZmBbY_eRNpVwrXFVNz3wg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

PLEASE EMAIL EVERYONE AT GDOT YOU CAN AND BRING IT TO THEIR ATTENTION.

Just to the south of that driveway is now a stoplight with a Wendy's behind it, so all it takes is 2 cars stopped at the stoplight and they're already starting to block that driveway.  I've seen 4x4 trucks pull out of there and nearly cause accidents.  IMHO that driveway should be closed and a new one that connects to the new road that goes to the Wendy's et al should be opened in its place.

Quote from: SSF on September 08, 2020, 08:24:27 PM
Thank god all the left hand exits are gonna be eliminated, i know all tractor trailer drivers will be thrilled. 

But if we had higher requirements for driving ability in the US like Germany those left side merges would be adequate. I personally haven't ever been scared of them.

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on September 07, 2020, 04:00:41 PM
Here is a video from GDOT of the proposed rendering of the I-20/I-285 West interchange in Atlanta.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2esu2SRIKM

Much needed. That looks like another billion dollar interchange. That what happens when these are only means of going anywhere for 6-8 million people. 3 smaller separate highways would be better because one fender bender doesn't block hundreds of thousands of people from getting to their destination. Precovid 2 hour backups to get home on weeknights was a weekly occurence.

Quote from: architect77 on September 18, 2020, 07:36:05 PM

Quote from: SSF on September 08, 2020, 08:24:27 PM
Thank god all the left hand exits are gonna be eliminated, i know all tractor trailer drivers will be thrilled. 

But if we had higher requirements for driving ability in the US like Germany those left side merges would be adequate. I personally haven't ever been scared of them.

I mean, it still has to be hell for a truck driver to go from the right lane getting on at Campbellton Road and then trying to get over the 4 lanes to the WB 20 exit in 1.5 miles as trucks arent technically allowed over until after Cascade Road. 

Drove through the 400/285 interchange construction again today. IMO GDOT underestimated how much rock blasting was going to be required. They had to blast rock at the Marta overpass Bridge, At Glenridge, At Roswell Road as well as at the Abernathy interchange for the DDI Construction there, this project wont be completed til 2022. It reminds me of the IH 22/65 interchange in Birmingham. Hopefully this project will open in segments! Because that 400 south to 285 right Circle cloverleaf ramp sucks Arse! I wish they had included gutting the Roswell Road interchange! It's a #### as well

I'm late to the party. Sorry.

Expensive though it'll be, this isn't a Cadillac of an interchange. The 285 mainlines will stay as they are, as will most of the 20 mainline including the bridges over 285. Most of the original bridges will remain, as will the left-hand entrance for the ramp from westbound 20 to southbound 285.

Quote from: architect77 on September 18, 2020, 07:43:26 PM

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on September 07, 2020, 04:00:41 PM
Here is a video from GDOT of the proposed rendering of the I-20/I-285 West interchange in Atlanta.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2esu2SRIKM

Much needed. That looks like another billion dollar interchange. That what happens when these are only means of going anywhere for 6-8 million people. 3 smaller separate highways would be better because one fender bender doesn't block hundreds of thousands of people from getting to their destination. Precovid 2 hour backups to get home on weeknights was a weekly occurence.

Quote from: Tomahawkin on September 19, 2020, 10:08:21 PM
Drove through the 400/285 interchange construction again today. IMO GDOT underestimated how much rock blasting was going to be required. They had to blast rock at the Marta overpass Bridge, At Glenridge, At Roswell Road as well as at the Abernathy interchange for the DDI Construction there, this project wont be completed til 2022. It reminds me of the IH 22/65 interchange in Birmingham. Hopefully this project will open in segments! Because that 400 south to 285 right Circle cloverleaf ramp sucks Arse! I wish they had included gutting the Roswell Road interchange! It's a #### as well

SPEAKING OF SEGMENTS... i just hate that GDOT is so blind to good aesthetics. Single flyovers in one curve switch back and forth using straight, precast concrete beams as much as possible and using exposed, curved steel as little as possible. One flyover at 400/285 has 3 different sections of beams, all facing I-285. They shouldn't be expressing curved shapes with straight beams as it just looks cheap. And it's not like they must be thrifty since Georgia has so few new roads over the last 30 years anyway. NC has probably 10 times more interchanges and yet they still use curved steel beams for every flyover in the state. GDOT is uglifying Atlanta's freeways which used to be somewhat pleasant and attractive. Today I-85 through Gwinnett and I-75 in Cobb are clusterf*cks of ugly and crooked structures.

Quote from: SSF on September 19, 2020, 04:11:01 PM

Quote from: architect77 on September 18, 2020, 07:36:05 PM

Quote from: SSF on September 08, 2020, 08:24:27 PM
Thank god all the left hand exits are gonna be eliminated, i know all tractor trailer drivers will be thrilled. 

But if we had higher requirements for driving ability in the US like Germany those left side merges would be adequate. I personally haven't ever been scared of them.

I mean, it still has to be hell for a truck driver to go from the right lane getting on at Campbellton Road and then trying to get over the 4 lanes to the WB 20 exit in 1.5 miles as trucks arent technically allowed over until after Cascade Road. 

I was just speaking about left-handed merges in general. I haven't really studied this West I-20 interchange, but I do know that it is the narrowest, most dangerous interstate in metro Atlanta. GDOT doesn't like to spend money on the Southside, and their discrimination is evident and it should be ended once and for all.

Quote from: architect77 on September 21, 2020, 11:53:33 AM

Quote from: SSF on September 19, 2020, 04:11:01 PM

Quote from: architect77 on September 18, 2020, 07:36:05 PM

Quote from: SSF on September 08, 2020, 08:24:27 PM
Thank god all the left hand exits are gonna be eliminated, i know all tractor trailer drivers will be thrilled. 

But if we had higher requirements for driving ability in the US like Germany those left side merges would be adequate. I personally haven't ever been scared of them.

I mean, it still has to be hell for a truck driver to go from the right lane getting on at Campbellton Road and then trying to get over the 4 lanes to the WB 20 exit in 1.5 miles as trucks arent technically allowed over until after Cascade Road. 

I was just speaking about left-handed merges in general. I haven't really studied this West I-20 interchange, but I do know that it is the narrowest, most dangerous interstate in metro Atlanta. GDOT doesn't like to spend money on the Southside, and their discrimination is evident and it should be ended once and for all.

The first thing I saw when I looked at it was that the tight loop ramp from I-20 East to I-285 North would be replaced with a flyover.  Traffic ends up slowing to a crawl navigating that ramp and backs up traffic on I-20.  It is that reason that when I am in the Atlanta area, I will take I-20 all the way to the Downtown Connector and get on I-85 that way.

My dad told me that this interchange has been a problem for as long as he could remember (we have family in Georgia and he had to go to Atlanta for work as well).

I seriously hope that all the interchange improvements at interchanges along 285 include street or high mast lighting? Its beyond me as to why there is little overhead lighting along one of the most dangerous interstates in the Country!

Quote from: Tomahawkin on September 23, 2020, 08:25:11 PM
I seriously hope that all the interchange improvements at interchanges along 285 include street or high mast lighting? Its beyond me as to why there is little overhead lighting along one of the most dangerous interstates in the Country!

Lighting is the sole choice and responsibility of whatever town the highway is running through. So if it's unincorporated or the towns haven't thought about lighting as being needed or they don't want to pay for it, You know GDOT isn't going to make any effort to rally support for lighting on I-285.

I'm ok with no lighting. In theory, it should make other cars more visible and glare can blind some people who can't process lots of visual stimuli very well.

It is time for the lighting on atlanta's freeways to be converted to LED though.

I have only seen the LED Lighting on the rollercoaster and the 75 south toll lanes at the entrance and exit ramps. I dont think GDOT will make that conversion with the lighting I.T.P. ( Inside the Perimeter)

Quote from: Tomahawkin on September 24, 2020, 11:13:43 AM
I have only seen the LED Lighting on the rollercoaster and the 75 south toll lanes at the entrance and exit ramps. I dont think GDOT will make that conversion with the lighting I.T.P. ( Inside the Perimeter)

It's probably up to the cities that pay for the specific lights. I mean eventually they must be replaced, because they are so dim and ineffectual compared to the white LEDs that now have completely replaced all of Georgia Power's street lights.

One day on an AJC forum I scolded former mayor SHirley Franklin for turning off the freeway lights during the recession to save money. She blasted back that the state should have paid for them, but I'd implement pay cuts before turning off the lights which affect everyone in the city.

Quote from: architect77 on September 24, 2020, 12:21:48 PM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on September 24, 2020, 11:13:43 AM
I have only seen the LED Lighting on the rollercoaster and the 75 south toll lanes at the entrance and exit ramps. I dont think GDOT will make that conversion with the lighting I.T.P. ( Inside the Perimeter)

It's probably up to the cities that pay for the specific lights. I mean eventually they must be replaced, because they are so dim and ineffectual compared to the white LEDs that now have completely replaced all of Georgia Power's street lights.

One day on an AJC forum I scolded former mayor SHirley Franklin for turning off the freeway lights during the recession to save money. She blasted back that the state should have paid for them, but I'd implement pay cuts before turning off the lights which affect everyone in the city.

Easy to say when it's not your pay being cut

Quote from: Eth on September 25, 2020, 10:57:00 AM

Quote from: Gnutella on September 24, 2020, 10:32:33 PMOddly, the interchange has been numbered Exit 5. Why not Exit 24?

Certainly exit 5 wouldn't make any sense at all; even assuming sequential numbering a la GA 400 and only counting existing interchanges, surely that would make it exit 6, would it not?

Numbering it as exit 6 would certainly be consistent with Georgia's other non-interstate freeways which also use sequential/consecutive numbering. But I think they opted not to do that because other interchanges are already planned and it wouldn't make sense to renumber the exits so soon.

The exit number of 5 seems to come from the mile posts (which reset to 0 at county lines), so this one is 5 miles from the Gwinnett/Barrow county line. If there was no county line reset of mileposts, the milepost at this location should be 21.

@Architect 77. It baffles me that there are only 2 access point to Buckhead via 400 in such a densely populated area. 6 lanes total through there sucks! That route is going to be part of my daily commute. I will take the over in a hour drive From Alpharetta to Emory.

Quote from: Tomahawkin on October 01, 2020, 12:50:52 PM
@Architect 77. It baffles me that there are only 2 access point to Buckhead via 400 in such a densely populated area. 6 lanes total through there sucks! That route is going to be part of my daily commute. I will take the over in a hour drive From Alpharetta to Emory.

Yeah, Georgia 400 really could use a 4th lane on each side from Buckhead to I-285.  Unfortunately there's no space to expand it where it goes under those buildings south of the main Buckhead exit so that will remain 3 lanes to a side for the foreseeable future.

Yep, I thought that they should have address that bottleneck between Buckhead and 285 when they took down the toll plaza. The irony in that is that people on IH 85 in Gwinnett county have to pay upwards to 15 dollars (in 1 direction) to use the toll lanes on weekdays

Quote from: Tomahawkin on October 01, 2020, 12:50:52 PM
@Architect 77. It baffles me that there are only 2 access point to Buckhead via 400 in such a densely populated area. 6 lanes total through there sucks! That route is going to be part of my daily commute. I will take the over in a hour drive From Alpharetta to Emory.

A year or two ago they announced that Piedmont Rd. would get an additional lane in bothe directions for the very short distance between Peachtree and Lenox Rd. loop extension behind Tower Plsce to help with this massive chokepoint that all of Buckhead has to use.

Rooms to Go remodeled their store to allow space for the new lane. But lately it's all repaved and there's 200 more apts. right at the throat of the chokepoint but no new lanes, so I guess they changed their minds.

Also 2 years ago there was talk about adding just an exit to the Lenox mall near East Paces. but that's gone no where and now they are building a large building right at that spot.

The GA400 interchange at the Lenox loop extention is unique because it has embedded lane lights in the pavement to help guide you with the large area of the left turns at this single-point urban interchange.

in the early 90's my visiting friends were wowed at night when the signal changed and the pavement lights switched following the long arcs of lanes for left hand turns.

But maintenance has never been one of Georgia's strong suits, and once the original bulbs went out they weren't ever replaced even once so the $50-100K that the system of these lights cost was totally wasted. I have asked GDOT and the Buckhead Business Coalition to get them working again to no avail. The poles holding the span wire signals at this area and on Sidney Marcus have arms for streetlights that have sat for 25 years waiting for the lights to be installed. They shouldn't be there without lights attached.

But no toll road in modern times is originally built with 8 lanes. Almost all are 4 or 6 lanes, and I don't know if GA400 was built for a 4th future lane but it is tight under those buildings.

Before the pandemic they were actively proceeding with capping 400 with a park at that spot and had raised half of the $200 million or more the park would cost. It may happen one day.

That toll supposedly generated about $40k a day and they delayed its removal for a year to pay for the Capt. Herb Emory flyover to I-85 North which I guess got VE'd out of the original construction.

i don't not like the cost-cutting style of projects from this one to the present. Thank God in the 80's they built the swoopy and elegant supports for the highways. Spaghetti junction is a work of art, but it wouldn't be with straight precast members that they define curves with now. Ugh!

Word on the Streets is that the tall flyover ramp from 400 SB to IH 285 east is open? Any truth to this? I'm not going to be in that area until next weekend. Also there is a lot of work left to be completed at both the Hammond Drive and Abernathy interchanges along 400 due to the fact that a lot of Rock has to be blasted along that hill

Quote from: Tomahawkin on October 02, 2020, 03:07:04 PM
Yep, I thought that they should have address that bottleneck between Buckhead and 285 when they took down the toll plaza. The irony in that is that people on IH 85 in Gwinnett county have to pay upwards to 15 dollars (in 1 direction) to use the toll lanes on weekdays

They choose to pay for moving hopefully at 45mph or faster by using a high occupancy lane as a single driver. It's bad on several levels.

When it's up tp $15 that means too many are using the lane & those who don't direly need to be somewhere at a certain time shouldn't use the lane at that given time.

I'd probably do it sometimes also though.

Quote from: Tomahawkin on October 05, 2020, 09:40:13 AM
Word on the Streets is that the tall flyover ramp from 400 SB to IH 285 east is open? Any truth to this? I'm not going to be in that area until next weekend. Also there is a lot of work left to be completed at both the Hammond Drive and Abernathy interchanges along 400 due to the fact that a lot of Rock has to be blasted along that hill

This is one long flyover forming one arc that switches to different supports 3 times, precast straight beams, then exposed steel curves directly over i-285, then back to straight concrete beams again.

It looks piece-meal and is the most visible flyover for I-285 drivers.

I am disappointed at how blind they are to aesthetics. The state builds virtually no new roads so it's not like the nominal costs savings of mismatched supports was critical in completing their workload.

Other than the Sound Barriers there are no aesthetics to the project. I dont understand why they are installing sound Barriers on 400 when toll lane construction will begin there in 16 months. It's a waste of toll and taxpayers money

Quote from: Tomahawkin on October 05, 2020, 09:40:13 AM
Word on the Streets is that the tall flyover ramp from 400 SB to IH 285 east is open? Any truth to this? I'm not going to be in that area until next weekend. Also there is a lot of work left to be completed at both the Hammond Drive and Abernathy interchanges along 400 due to the fact that a lot of Rock has to be blasted along that hill

The ramp has indeed opened, per WSB (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/new-flyover-ramp-ga-400-285-interchange-opens/FZ27LK4L3BA2RICWBU7L7DQIQY/).

Quote from: Eth on October 06, 2020, 08:40:52 AM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on October 05, 2020, 09:40:13 AM
Word on the Streets is that the tall flyover ramp from 400 SB to IH 285 east is open? Any truth to this? I'm not going to be in that area until next weekend. Also there is a lot of work left to be completed at both the Hammond Drive and Abernathy interchanges along 400 due to the fact that a lot of Rock has to be blasted along that hill

The ramp has indeed opened, per WSB (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/new-flyover-ramp-ga-400-285-interchange-opens/FZ27LK4L3BA2RICWBU7L7DQIQY/).

I heard that the ramp opening was quite a clusterfrig, though thankfully I didn't witness it myself. I took some photos on Saturday morning. With the opening scheduled for 3am Monday, I expected the ramps not to be painted yet. As it turned out, they weren't even paved!

The current configuration switches the two ramps from 400 to 285: now 285 east is the far right lane, while 285 west is the second from the right. How they expected to communicate that without overheads... well, no wonder it was a clusterfrig. Google Maps now has the new configuration, but it didn't for several days after the opening, which... Glenda Google tells you what lanes to be in. A timely switchover could only have helped.

And... I'm on Facebook a lot, and I follow several GDOT pages, but I heard about the opening from a friend. I finally saw an item about it on GDOT's page several days later.

The next big shift will move through traffic on southbound 400 to the new Glenridge Connector CD, which means that the new flyover to 285 east will exit to the left. I hope GDOT and its minions have their acts together by then.

Had an impromptu meeting in Sandy Springs so I was able to use the new flyover from 400S to 285 EB. It's a long single lane flyover, might be longer than the 3 lane 285 flyover @Spaghetti Junction. Be aware though, for the moment there is about 1500 feet to merge onto the 285 main lanes at the end of the flyover. It was a B#### at 6pm today because the traffic on Ashford/Dunwoody ramp was backed up onto the interstate. That DDI on the Ashford/Dunwoody road bridge is already outdated. They should have gutted it and rebuilt that interchange as well, IMO

@Tom958, any date on the next phase opening? I'm giving it after new year's barring the weather...

Quote from: Tomahawkin on October 07, 2020, 08:52:42 PM
@Tom958, any date on the next phase opening? I'm giving it after new year's barring the weather...

Definitely. The next detour will involve a bridge that as of last Saturday consisted of a row of steel piles at each abutment. In other words, barely started.

QuoteBe aware though, for the moment there is about 1500 feet to merge onto the 285 main lanes at the end of the flyover. It was a B#### at 6pm today because the traffic on Ashford/Dunwoody ramp was backed up onto the interstate.

Saturday, I took photos looking north and south from Hammond Drive and west from Perimeter Center Parkway, but I realized later that I'd neglected to look east from PCP.  Yes, the weaving length must be horrifically short.

I'll go over there and take more photos this weekend, weather permitting.

Quote from: Tom958 on October 09, 2020, 01:50:24 AM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on October 07, 2020, 08:52:42 PM
@Tom958, any date on the next phase opening? I'm giving it after new year's barring the weather...

Definitely. The next detour will involve a bridge that as of last Saturday consisted of a row of steel piles at each abutment. In other words, barely started.

QuoteBe aware though, for the moment there is about 1500 feet to merge onto the 285 main lanes at the end of the flyover. It was a B#### at 6pm today because the traffic on Ashford/Dunwoody ramp was backed up onto the interstate.

Saturday, I took photos looking north and south from Hammond Drive and west from Perimeter Center Parkway, but I realized later that I'd neglected to look east from PCP.  Yes, the weaving length must be horrifically short.

I'll go over there and take more photos this weekend, weather permitting.

You seem to be quite interested in this interchnge. You should persist in communicating with GDOT any wishes you have. For me, I'd like as much landscaping and trees to be added in between all the ramps etc. that would integrate the man-made concrete into the landsscape and provide some shade. And of course to install all overhead signs and supports to be visually level and not lean down to one side. They cannot seem to do this in Georgia.

@Architect77 there will be little planning or adding as far as plants/trees/etc, are concerned. There will be more toll flyover added once the 285 and 400 toll lanes are added to this interchange in the next 10-12 years

Quote from: architect77 on October 05, 2020, 05:55:39 PMThis is one long flyover forming one arc that switches to different supports 3 times, precast straight beams, then exposed steel curves directly over i-285, then back to straight concrete beams again.

It looks piece-meal and is the most visible flyover for I-285 drivers.

I am disappointed at how blind they are to aesthetics. The state builds virtually no new roads so it's not like the nominal costs savings of mismatched supports was critical in completing their workload.

I feel ya, bro, but in addition to cheapness, I suspect that after the Willian T. Sherman Viaduct collapse, bias in favor of building bridges out of components that can be ordered out of a catalog and fabricated within a few days will be extremely strong for the foreseeable future. Just wait'll they start with the elevated express lanes. Top end 285 will be a veritable AASHTO beam wonderland.

As it happens, I photographed that interchange the day before the first weathering steel span was erected. My photos can be found at the FreewayJim Facebook group, searching for Tom Marney 400.

Quote from: Tom958 on October 10, 2020, 03:56:33 AM

Quote from: architect77 on October 05, 2020, 05:55:39 PMThis is one long flyover forming one arc that switches to different supports 3 times, precast straight beams, then exposed steel curves directly over i-285, then back to straight concrete beams again.

It looks piece-meal and is the most visible flyover for I-285 drivers.

I am disappointed at how blind they are to aesthetics. The state builds virtually no new roads so it's not like the nominal costs savings of mismatched supports was critical in completing their workload.

I feel ya, bro, but in addition to cheapness, I suspect that after the Willian T. Sherman Viaduct collapse, bias in favor of building bridges out of components that can be ordered out of a catalog and fabricated within a few days will be extremely strong for the foreseeable future. Just wait'll they start with the elevated express lanes. Top end 285 will be a veritable AASHTO beam wonderland.

As it happens, I photographed that interchange the day before the first weathering steel span was erected. My photos can be found at the FreewayJim Facebook group, searching for Tom Marney 400.

i assume the elevated section of i-85 over Piedmont Rd. is the Sherman you're referring to?

That repair job was done well. I was so scared that they wouldn't match the style of the existing elevated section but they did and it's seamless. They spent extra on fast-curing high strength concrete, and of course there were complaints from idiot groups about prudent use of taxpayer money.

The elevated express lanes in cobb look ok, and yes, there are a lot of precast beams used, but all in all it looks decent. However I hear that it's not smooth to drive on as it has bumps and inclines/declines that don't lend themselves to high speeds.

It's amazing that over 20 miles which is mostly elevated was built for less than $1 billion. Likewise. NC built a new, elegant bridge on the Outer Banks for only about $250 million. Both projects in other states  would be far, far more expensive.

I went to the open houses for the express lanes and gave them copies of 5 pages of my suggestions, none of which were addressed in their final report responding to public input. Nothing related to aesthetics or landscaping was mentioned as something they will address.

I mainly just want them to not install 75 overhead trusses each with one sign attached which blocks the view of the sky and the surrounding trees. It creates an unattractive environment for people to stare at for hours during rush hour, and it's unnecessary and a waste of tax payer money as these full span supports are about $50K each, double of what the appropriate cantilever support costs.

Drove through the 400/285 interchange yesterday. If I had to guess: I'm thinking that the ramp from 285 west to 400 North will be the next leg to open? With that said I wish that GDOT would abolish the ramp to Peachtree Dunwoody road. It's a total Cluster#### at all hours of the day from 7am-7pm.

285 updated version on the Express lane project has been updated. Its on Youtube. That #### is another band-aid on a bullet-wound! 1 added lane isnt going to do #### with all the truck traffic in the Atlanta area

1) No outer perimeter

2) No Rail! That extends to the suburbs. People in the Suburbs must love spending 90 minutes in traffic in the AM? and close to 2 hours in the PM?

GDOT Is a Bleeping Joke! 1 added lane on 285? With no interchange improvements at the 78 interchange...Natalie Dale is on that Stuff! or slobbing a GDOT! Im sure she lives walking distance from the GDOT's office.

rail has never been popular in the region, so the people would rather sit in traffic than enjoy a comparatively stress free park and ride rail trip. 

Natalie Dale is a GDOT employee, the next time you hear her badmouth a project/concept will be the first time. 

An outer perimeter is going to be tough in this financial/NIMBY environment.  You already complain about how long it takes things to get accomplished, I would hate to see the public comment/EIS process for some of those sections of the Outer Perimeter.  The current perimeter is 68 or 69 miles isnt it; think of how expensive that would be to re-build today, now at least double that for an Outer Perimeter.  I mean, it is going to be a 11 figure project to complete. 

The problem is, the express lanes could be 2 lanes and they could add 2 free lanes to 285, and it still would ultimately not be enough without some other mode to alleviate the stress on our roads.  The metro area really needs to embrace far more transit of any sort( BRT, Light Rail, Heavy Rail) than it currently does, but i dont know how that happens given the stigma attached with Marta in Atlanta and America in general. 

Quote from: Georgia on October 28, 2020, 09:32:38 PM
rail has never been popular in the region, so the people would rather sit in traffic than enjoy a comparatively stress free park and ride rail trip. 

Natalie Dale is a GDOT employee, the next time you hear her badmouth a project/concept will be the first time. 

An outer perimeter is going to be tough in this financial/NIMBY environment.  You already complain about how long it takes things to get accomplished, I would hate to see the public comment/EIS process for some of those sections of the Outer Perimeter.  The current perimeter is 68 or 69 miles isnt it; think of how expensive that would be to re-build today, now at least double that for an Outer Perimeter.  I mean, it is going to be a 11 figure project to complete. 

The problem is, the express lanes could be 2 lanes and they could add 2 free lanes to 285, and it still would ultimately not be enough without some other mode to alleviate the stress on our roads.  The metro area really needs to embrace far more transit of any sort( BRT, Light Rail, Heavy Rail) than it currently does, but i dont know how that happens given the stigma attached with Marta in Atlanta and America in general. 

Only when plowing through an already developed area are new highways expensive.

With gas costing less in NC than in North Georgia, NCDOT manages to spend $3 billion every year on new highway constrctuction and improvements. The rest, $2 billion, is spent on maintenance of over 80,000 miles of roads each year, GDOT maintains 35,000 miles.

An outer loop around Atlanta wouldn't help much because it would have too big of a circumference to aid local traffic.

A Northern Arc or an upgrade to GA20, however, would provide a much needed 2nd route for tractor-trailers to traverse North Georgia.

I-85 is a conduit for freight coming from the Northeast and Mid-Altantic, translation: gazillions of trucks 24/7.

The only way through the Southeast headed West is through Atlanta, and then the only route Westbound without going to South Atlanta and back upward, must be shared with a metro of 6 million plus.

Any new connection East-West through North Georgia would help tremendously. It's amazing that people tolerate the backups including truck drivers which sometimes are backed up over 10 miles on I-85 Southbound just to get onto I-285.

For those who think proximity to GDOT offices is a factor regarding maintenance or upgrades, think again. The office for Altanta is in Chamblee and employees must pass deteriorated and inadequately-sized tiny interstate shield signs as the only guidance on I-285. They are plastered to the overpass' concrete girders. They are faded and barely readable.

Not far away is Peachtree Industrial Blvd. limited access Northbound, where the access road overheads were half-missing or faded beyond readability.

Any area that's predominantly minority populated like Jimmy Carter Blvd. will not get any attention from GDOT. If you don't believe me, drive through the Southside, Chamblee, Doraville or Norcross and see the 50 year old lane signs that have old-timey outlines for the shields if you can see anything at all.

They're so dumb, the state's infrastructure is judged as a whole, so they're not gaining anything by only spending in affluent or white areas.

Boy, after looking at the 285 top end lanes, do i wish i owned a pre-cast concrete beam fabrication company.

IKR, whoever gets awarded that job is going to bank! Ditto for the GA 400 express lanes, because there will be bridge expansion over that route where it crosses the Hooch as well and OT I really wish that they would re-do the Roswell Rd interchange over 285! It's been outdated by 40 years...

Quote from: Georgia on November 18, 2020, 12:13:48 AM
Boy, after looking at the 285 top end lanes, do i wish i owned a pre-cast concrete beam fabrication company.

I wish they would hire the engineers from the "Freeing the Freeways" back the 80's who gave us all the swooping box girder flyovers lthat are used so much at Spaghetti Junction. Curved concrete molded to its precise usage against a backdrop of trees is the main visual of living in Atlanta.

The straight segments of beam are fine as long as they aren't supporting curved roadways.

In NC, it's all curved, exposed steel except for a few spots near the coast.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48861521116_9ba641730f_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hrJ4Vf)rdu (https://flic.kr/p/2hrJ4Vf) by Stephen Edwards (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151506681@N05/), on Flickr


I requested multiple times for GDOT's appropriate district to replace these years ago, but because the area is mostly Latino, I think that GDOT purposely does not spend for maintenance. A sad state.

This is Chamblee-Tucker Rd. headed Westbound at Buford Highway. These are supposed to identify Buford Hwy as US23. They're so old that  the shield used a different design.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50624946161_e5ee0c1733_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k8y5Kk)chamdun (https://flic.kr/p/2k8y5Kk) by Stephen Edwards (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151506681@N05/), on Flickr

How ironic that one of the CDC sites is in distance of that picture. Other than the restaurants,  I avoid Buford Highway like the plague because of the traffic

Quote from: Tomahawkin on November 20, 2020, 11:46:47 AM
How ironic that one of the CDC sites is in distance of that picture. Other than the restaurants,  I avoid Buford Highway like the plague because of the traffic

The unfortunate aspect is that areas like this and Jimmy Carter Blvd. now look like you could be in another country. There is little visible infrastructure that's uniform in appearance and is decidedly American or associated with Georgia.

In contrast the uniformity in appearance of street signs and traffic signals in New York and California always tie extremely ethnic neighborhoods back with the city they're in..

Georgia isn't unifying but rather fracturing into more cities that want to go it alone. Duplication of so many services isn't efficient use of taxpayer funding. GDOT should be called out for neglecting parts of the metro that are mostly minority populated.

Omg! I was at Jimmy Carter Blvd, a few days ago! And I'm a Broken record on this! That DDI Is a band aid on a bullet wound! That interchange needs to be gutted and redone! The added commercial truck traffic over the last 5 years has made it worse!

Quote from: architect77 on November 20, 2020, 11:10:20 AM
I requested multiple times for GDOT's appropriate district to replace these years ago, but because the area is mostly Latino, I think that GDOT purposely does not spend for maintenance. A sad state.

This is Chamblee-Tucker Rd. headed Westbound at Buford Highway. These are supposed to identify Buford Hwy as US23. They're so old that  the shield used a different design.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50624946161_e5ee0c1733_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k8y5Kk)chamdun (https://flic.kr/p/2k8y5Kk) by Stephen Edwards (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151506681@N05/), on Flickr

Adding on to this, I noticed that the burned-out/melted US-23 sign on I-285 near Spaghetti Junction is still standing unaltered (as of Friday), despite being completely unreadable. It's been like that at least since August when I last visited. Why on earth hasn't it been replaced?

Quote from: Thing 342 on November 29, 2020, 11:30:22 AM

Quote from: architect77 on November 20, 2020, 11:10:20 AM
I requested multiple times for GDOT's appropriate district to replace these years ago, but because the area is mostly Latino, I think that GDOT purposely does not spend for maintenance. A sad state.

This is Chamblee-Tucker Rd. headed Westbound at Buford Highway. These are supposed to identify Buford Hwy as US23. They're so old that  the shield used a different design.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50624946161_e5ee0c1733_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k8y5Kk)chamdun (https://flic.kr/p/2k8y5Kk) by Stephen Edwards (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151506681@N05/), on Flickr

Adding on to this, I noticed that the burned-out/melted US-23 sign on I-285 near Spaghetti Junction is still standing unaltered (as of Friday), despite being completely unreadable. It's been like that at least since August when I last visited. Why on earth hasn't it been replaced?

Are you kidding? the tiny lane signs with shields at interstate junctions throughout the whole state never get replaced. Decades can pass before someone finally says hey these, faded, unreadable signs need replacing.

It's beyond inexcusable being that these tiny signs at interstate junctions are supposed to be big overhead guidance signs like the top-tier states have. In metro Atlanta, if there is any signs, it's a tiny "SR 400 NB", and I'll bet 70% of the public couldn't tell you what "SR" stands for, and likely not "NB" either.

Found out that (weather permitting) the ramp from 400 south to 285 west could open before the end of the year. IMO this should help the bottleneck on 400 south between Abernathy and IH 285...

Clearview has appeared in Georgia under GDOT's auspices! My understanding, such as it is, is that the design team for the 285-400 project is from Texas and works in Clearview. Lately, the sign fabricator has stopped changing the font to Highway Gothic and had supplied the signs as specified. They're small (and inadequate!), temporary signs for the construction zone, so don't expect them to last, but for now we have a certified unicorn sighting in Georgia.

I just saw the new overhead signs on I-285 East approaching Spaghetti Junction. I hope they will be replaced when the Express lanes are built.
They look awful, sloppy, hastily erected, and every signs bridge leans down toward the center divider. This state cannot erect a visually level gantry period. I'll bet 10% at most statewide look level, the rest make this state look like Hee-Haw primitive, it's embarrassing and people pick up on it even if just subconsciously.

I believe the 400/285 interchange will surpass, Spaghetti Junction once the toll lane flyovers are added to it in 10-12 years, but man that's s long time away!

Quote from: Tomahawkin on December 31, 2020, 02:42:48 PM
I believe the 400/285 interchange will surpass, Spaghetti Junction once the toll lane flyovers are added to it in 10-12 years, but man that's s long time away!

Surpass Spaghetti in complexity sure, but exude elegance almost to a level of art? Never  A single curve flyover with 5 changes in supports underneath that's segmented instead of continuous curved steel just looks like it was the cheapest possible

Oh I agree. I was in Texas last week and Atlanta could really do a better job of using overhead lighting on its interstates and state roads, especially in the suburbs. There is little to no overhead streetlights in the Lawrenceville area as well as other suburbs north of Atlanta...

Quote from: Tomahawkin on January 01, 2021, 09:54:00 PM
Oh I agree. I was in Texas last week and Atlanta could really do a better job of using overhead lighting on its interstates and state roads, especially in the suburbs. There is little to no overhead streetlights in the Lawrenceville area as well as other suburbs north of Atlanta...

Quote from: Tomahawkin on January 01, 2021, 09:54:00 PM
Oh I agree. I was in Texas last week and Atlanta could really do a better job of using overhead lighting on its interstates and state roads, especially in the suburbs. There is little to no overhead streetlights in the Lawrenceville area as well as other suburbs north of Atlanta...

The cities along the highway must provide the lighting and pay for it. Of course highway lighting is the standard only in urban settings where it helps in moving into the emergency shoulder in a chaotic setting with lots of other cars.

If trees are buffering on both sides, then no lighting is specified for what is considered to be a rural setting.

Here is a video of the proposed express lanes on I-285 on the westside of Atlanta.

Thanks for posting this. The revenue collected from the toll lanes is really helpful in getting the projects that are 15 to 20 years overdue started

Quote from: Tomahawkin on January 05, 2021, 04:00:46 PM
Thanks for posting this. The revenue collected from the toll lanes is really helpful in getting the projects that are 15 to 20 years overdue started

Ok, but here's what I want to know: With gas prices in North Georgia the same or higher than NC who with $6 billion a year is able to maintain 80,000 miles of roads vs. 35,000 for GDOT, and still use $3 billion every year for new construction oh highways and improvements....

Where is the the money from each gallon of gas going, and why can't Georgia spend billions on new construction every year like NC does?

Gov. Deal got a 10 cent increase in gas tax to add what was already being collected and I hope that 25% is no longer going to the general fund like before.

It's like the tire disposal fees we are charged.... none of it has ever been spent on the disposal of tires,..

The HOT lanes are good, simply because they can be controlled to stay free flowing.

But claiming that the revenue is all the state has to do rebuilds and new construction is just not true.

GDOT has a big chunk of money to work with now.

Their inaction over decades is why interchanges cost a billion or more, that's the only place to expand and it's tight to begin with.

Think about the billions other states spend acquiring new right of way every year and then here none is bought. Where did that money go?

Quote from: Georgia on February 10, 2020, 08:51:49 PM
Camp Creek DDI opened up this morning and seemed to be flowing decently at 7am and 11am when I drove the project. 

I took a photo of it last July; after a few months without flying it really stuck out!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50924270112_327df4dc19_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kA1ck7)

Quote from: formulanone on February 08, 2021, 08:52:39 PM

Quote from: Georgia on February 10, 2020, 08:51:49 PM
Camp Creek DDI opened up this morning and seemed to be flowing decently at 7am and 11am when I drove the project. 

I took a photo of it last July; after a few months without flying it really stuck out!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50924270112_327df4dc19_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kA1ck7)

I drove through that one a few months ago. I had to stop at both lights and they were p a i n f u l l y  s l o w. Definitely seemed less coordinated than the DDI's I've gone through in Utah.

Quote from: US 89 on February 08, 2021, 09:21:16 PM

Quote from: formulanone on February 08, 2021, 08:52:39 PM

Quote from: Georgia on February 10, 2020, 08:51:49 PM
Camp Creek DDI opened up this morning and seemed to be flowing decently at 7am and 11am when I drove the project. 

I took a photo of it last July; after a few months without flying it really stuck out!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50924270112_327df4dc19_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kA1ck7)

I drove through that one a few months ago. I had to stop at both lights and they were p a i n f u l l y  s l o w. Definitely seemed less coordinated than the DDI's I've gone through in Utah.

You should call the municipality that it's in and tell them the lights should have a few seconds shaved off the phases. There are many intersections in the metro area with badly timed  signals and no one ever reports them. The city of Atlanta will call you the next day and ask about the lights you're requesting service on. You could save thousands of people a few minutes every day.

Fixed quote. (http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4000.0) - rmf67

Speaking of DDI's. Roswell road over 285 needs this! I have been a broken record in saying that. That interchange is Booty at all hours of the day!

Welp, I was way off on the 400 SB to 285 West ramp opening. I thought it would be near New years, but its set to open this weekend. The way it looks, that 400-285 interchange may not be complete til summer 2022??? This is a big fail for G-DOT IMO. Isn't this interchange project in its 5th year? I swear the LBJ underneath express lanes project in Dallas took the same amount of time and that was a total overhaul with the Hi-Five Stack. Correct me if Im wrong? Or am I being impatient because I have been underwhelmed by the lack of progress within the last 120 days. IMO i dont think the contractors knew that they would have to blast a lot of rock in that area???

What angers me the most is the neglect I see in much of metro Atlanta. All of the roads near the I-285 interchanges on the East wall in Dekalb look like GDOT hasn't been over there in 50 years. There are small shield signs that are 2 generations ago designs of the shields with most faded beyond recognition.

Dekalb is such a strange county, I know people must enjoy lower taxes but are they so conditioned to corruption that they never realize or expect any maintenance to be done to the roads and signage over there?

In some ways it's like going back in time to see major thoroughfares with fast food restaurants etc. that haven't been renovated in 40 years. In another way it's depressing to see the sole tall building piercing the trees and right by the interstate be the Dekalb County Jail.

As for improving/ widening I-85 to SC, there are no plans that I ever seen for there to be anymore projects beyond the one that's in progress now. It doesn't even go to Commerce.

I'm grateful that they have been doing all the work in Gwinnett though. They seem to ok with narrow-feeling highway corriedors though and the full gantries holding up one sign instead of cantilievered drive me craazy.

But the worst is how crooked all the gantries are with one in the new I-85 section tilting down to the left 15 degrees or more. It cancels out having respect for a state because these signs are the state speaking to motorists. It's about the most direct communication a state has with residents and visitors. These structures which other states have on all roads not just interstates like here should be erected with much more care and vigilance.

Does anyone know how long it took spaghetti junction to get built. It seems like the 400/285 interchange is going at a snail's pace even with the enhanced construction technology

DeKalb isn't really known for low taxes though.

Quote from: Tomahawkin on March 30, 2021, 06:50:44 PM
Does anyone know how long it took spaghetti junction to get built. It seems like the 400/285 interchange is going at a snail's pace even with the enhanced construction technology

1) Well obviously we've had a lot of rain which delays things. A new 26 floor condo development across the street from me in Midtown has just finished its foundation that it began last summer? a full year for the foundation work that doesn't go way below ground either.

2) I guess much of the 400/285 interchange includes connections to so much that hasn't been built yet like the express lanes.

3) Then it may have some unconventional aspects because of insufficient height for which one of the flyovers that had to be crammed underneath I believe.

4) Use of those straight precast beams probably falls under the advanced construction techniques, but man I sure do hate that one of the flyovers is supported differently back and forth 5 times. You can't look elegant or aesthetically pleasing doing that. It's still an impressive interchange though.

Spaghetti Junction is a true treasure. I wish they would power wash the algae and discoloration off it or paint it to look like new concrete. It was almost white as was all of the median walls and retaining walls in the first few years after all the freeways had just been widened in the 90s.

I so cant wait to see what Spaghetti Junction will look like with toll lane flyovers in 8 years... With that said there is little room to build around that interchange and the C/D Roads that access the surface streets in that area....Same with the Express lanes that will be on 285 east of Atlanta in 4 years....

I'm worried about the longevity of Spaghetti Junction though.

I doubt those box girder flyovers were initially designed be fully loaded with heavy 18 wheelers that sit for 16 hours a day moving ever so slowly.

I know they can handle it, but when I was in school in structures class we were taught to consider the most extreme loading conditions, calculate them, but then design for 80% of that because it was so unlikely.

Hopefully if one of them ever had to be replaced, they would go about it like with the I-85 collapse: they rebuilt it to match the existing which was one of my biggest initial worries, because aesthetics get virtually no consideration at GDOT.

The express lanes will be ugly segmented flyovers like everything GDOT has produced since the 1990s. They will surround the elegant Tom Moreland Interchange that might not even get cleaned off or fixed up.

Remember everyone that these ultra expensive interchange rebuilds are the consequence of never building any other alternates or nearby parallel roads to relieve our big interstate trunks.

These convoluted interchanges wouldn't cost a billion each if another smaller freeway was offering connectivity and redundancy.

Quote from: architect77 on April 05, 2021, 12:04:36 AM
These convoluted interchanges wouldn't cost a billion each if another smaller freeway was offering connectivity and redundancy.

Tell it to the Atlanta mayor that nixed the idea of extending 400 south of I-85 with a tunnel ten years ago or so.

Welp, since no outer perimeter will be built. SR 20 Is the closest thing to that in the north suburbs of Atlanta. Its better to be proactive than reactive as our BASS-ACKWARD Gov't has been over the last 30 years

What do you suggest???

Quote from: Tomahawkin on April 05, 2021, 11:58:37 PM
Welp, since no outer perimeter will be built. SR 20 Is the closest thing to that in the north suburbs of Atlanta. Its better to be proactive than reactive as our BASS-ACKWARD Gov't has been over the last 30 years

What do you suggest???

I agree. It's the obvious corridor that could be the closest adjunct to I-285 Top End for East-West travel.

But I remember a few years ago some residents along GA20 were fighting a small stretch being widened for a very local purpose.

However that is expected just as the default reaction to any announcement involving change.

There is a 2 lane road that goes through Jasper near big canoe that has hellacious traffic  primarily 18 wheelers going very fast on the winding and hilly road.

I don't know where they are going or coming from, but that indicates another need for some better East-West throughput North of the metro.

Found out yesterday that work will began on replacing both the Covington HWY and Glenwood Rd. Bridges late this year. Both replacements will take 2-3 years and are the beginning stages of the 285 East express lane project in Dekalb county which IIRC will not be completed til 2028. That is too long of a construction project to just add 1 added lane in both directions on 285, IMO. Plus there will not be any express lane flyover ramps. The only ramps will only be limited to about 2-3 interchanges at bridges that GDOT plans to have ramps added...

here is the MMIP program timeline

https://cdn.majormobilityga.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/18105911/MMIP-Timeline-Updated_19.pdf

Last updated in December though

I can't wait until I-85 is widened to six lanes all the way up to South Carolina.

Quote from: Gnutella on April 07, 2021, 11:35:58 PM
I can't wait until I-85 is widened to six lanes all the way up to South Carolina.

There aren't any plans to do that I don't think. The completion of the current 3rd lane project to US129 is all there is officiially. That's not even up to Commerce.

I'm not complaining though because at least I-85 is in good condition unlike I-20 to Augusta which is bad shape in several spots.

Quote from: Tomahawkin on April 07, 2021, 08:20:24 PM
Found out yesterday that work will began on replacing both the Covington HWY and Glenwood Rd. Bridges late this year. Both replacements will take 2-3 years and are the beginning stages of the 285 East express lane project in Dekalb county which IIRC will not be completed til 2028. That is too long of a construction project to just add 1 added lane in both directions on 285, IMO. Plus there will not be any express lane flyover ramps. The only ramps will only be limited to about 2-3 interchanges at bridges that GDOT plans to have ramps added...

I went to that open house meeting a couple of years ago. I think that I-285 East will have a lot of rebuilding of the general purpose lanes as they try to fit everything in the existing right of way. It's not just an adding of an express lane beside the existing roadway.

I say that because I remember seeing them planning for one general purpose lane to be 11' wide rather than 12' and I was like, no, don't do that for a rebuild that's gotta serve the next 50 years. Do it right and find or buy the extra space for the correct width.

I-85' used to have 5 wide luxurious lanes in Gwinnett until they painted the HOV lane into existence. 2 inner right lanes are now 11' wide and it's no longer pleasant to drive on I-85 because of that.

@architect77

Can they please add overhead lighting to 285? 285 has to be the busiest interstate in the country with little overhead lighting?

Georgia desperately needs something that goes east-west north of Atlanta, besides I-285.  No matter whether it's called the Outer Perimeter or something else at another latitude, some kind of expressway between I-75 and I-85 needs to happen, and traffic is only going to get worse until then.

Quote from: Finrod on April 09, 2021, 05:08:16 PM
Georgia desperately needs something that goes east-west north of Atlanta, besides I-285.  No matter whether it's called the Outer Perimeter or something else at another latitude, some kind of expressway between I-75 and I-85 needs to happen, and traffic is only going to get worse until then.

I'm sure I've posted this before but this is after lunch, weekday, Summer, basically at the time of least traffic on a typical day, and on the other side trucks sit in queue for 5-10 miles waiting to transition from I-85 Southbound to I-285 Westbound.

I can't believe the leaders of this state can live with this. Sadly I bet most Americans don't even realize that this chokepoint is because multiple state's traffic have no other way to get across Georgia. They just likely attribute it to big city congestion and brush it aside.

But its due to a very real inadequacy.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/47967059107_f877f89a17.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2g5FHwt)IMG_0324 (https://flic.kr/p/2g5FHwt) by Stephen Edwards (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151506681@N05/), on Flickr

@architect77

its the same way from 285 SB to 85 NB. Even on weekends that 3 lane flyover ramp is full with trucks, backups can start beyond P.I.B. That flyover is heavily stressed and I always wonder how the hell does it continuously hold that weight and stress without failing? i avoid that interchange like the plague

Quote from: Finrod on April 05, 2021, 04:08:56 AM

Quote from: architect77 on April 05, 2021, 12:04:36 AM
These convoluted interchanges wouldn't cost a billion each if another smaller freeway was offering connectivity and redundancy.

Tell it to the Atlanta mayor that nixed the idea of extending 400 south of I-85 with a tunnel ten years ago or so.

Well, that tunnel was part of another "too little too late" analysis done by an out of state consulting firm hired to assess Atlanta's mobility problems.

The tunnel wasn't a good idea nor all that realistic. Who would want to drive in a dark 9 mile tunnel in beautiful, sunny Atlanta? Unless it was an efficient almost duplicate of the downtown connector that didn't involve a lot of extra maneuvering to rejoin 75/85 then I doubt if enough traffic would be going to its end points to justify the cost or efforts.

Then in Atlanta you must think about if it would become a refuge for homeless people like overpasses downtown have become. Lots of liability issues for the city and state would be part of any tunnel idea.

An 18 wheeler knocked down an overhead gantry on the East wall of I-285 yesterday. I saw the photo on Dekalb Police website.
I wonder if this is the reason the overhead signs are made from many horizontal slats rather the big sheets of metal. All but the bottom slat had fallen off the gantry and I guess it's less weight potentially falling and injuring someone.

 I work in that area, literally 1/2 mile from that crash, near Emory Decatur hospital. Traffic was off the chain everywhere in the area, there is no excuse for many of the roads to just have 2 lanes and no designed MARTA bus stops where its not in the center of the road, impeding traffic and making it dangerous for pedrestrians. This is a citywide issue, especially in Midtown and has been for decades

Quote from: architect77 on April 13, 2021, 03:54:04 PM
The tunnel wasn't a good idea nor all that realistic. Who would want to drive in a dark 9 mile tunnel in beautiful, sunny Atlanta? Unless it was an efficient almost duplicate of the downtown connector that didn't involve a lot of extra maneuvering to rejoin 75/85 then I doubt if enough traffic would be going to its end points to justify the cost or efforts.

I'm guessing you've never been on I-85 South approaching the Connector and seen the messageboard signs quoting more than 30 minutes to get to I-20.

The tunnel would be the hard part.  The easy part would be continuing the expressway to I-675 at I-285, like the original Atlanta freeway design had.  Then people from the south side could get to Buckhead and the Perimeter area without getting on either the Perimeter or the Connector, and vise-versa.

Quote from: Finrod on April 14, 2021, 07:08:44 AM

Quote from: architect77 on April 13, 2021, 03:54:04 PM
The tunnel wasn't a good idea nor all that realistic. Who would want to drive in a dark 9 mile tunnel in beautiful, sunny Atlanta? Unless it was an efficient almost duplicate of the downtown connector that didn't involve a lot of extra maneuvering to rejoin 75/85 then I doubt if enough traffic would be going to its end points to justify the cost or efforts.

I'm guessing you've never been on I-85 South approaching the Connector and seen the messageboard signs quoting more than 30 minutes to get to I-20.

The tunnel would be the hard part.  The easy part would be continuing the expressway to I-675 at I-285, like the original Atlanta freeway design had.  Then people from the south side could get to Buckhead and the Perimeter area without getting on either the Perimeter or the Connector, and vise-versa.

Yeah you're right. In terms of another option that parallels the connector, it would be very helpful.

I hope they eventually close about half of the exits downtown because that would reduce so much lane changing which grinds the whole interstate to a halt everyday.