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Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165

Started by WKDAVE, April 07, 2019, 05:01:15 PM

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nexus73

Three, six, nine, the goose drank wine.
The monkey chewed tobacco on the street car line.
The line broke
The monkey got choked
And they all went to heaven in a little row boat!

Rick
US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willits CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.


hbelkins

Quote from: Roadsguy on April 11, 2019, 08:54:29 PM
Did I-181 ever continue to the state line or did it end where I-26 ends now?

No, it ended at US 11W.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Stephane Dumas

Sorry but I couldn't resist to bump off this thread. ^_^;;

If KYDOT couldn't make the remaining WK gap from I-165 to I-65 as I-71, would KYDOT try to pull a NYSDOT by number it as "KY-369" or having its secret number not secret anymore?

The Ghostbuster

The Western Kentucky Parkway is planned to become Interstate 569 between Interstate 69/future Interstate 169 and Interstate 165. I still think future 569 should go all the way to Interstate 65.

wriddle082

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 30, 2022, 07:16:03 PM
The Western Kentucky Parkway is planned to become Interstate 569 between Interstate 69/future Interstate 169 and Interstate 165. I still think future 569 should go all the way to Interstate 65.

I agree with those who believe I-71 should be extended southwest along I-65 and the WK all the way to 69/169.  And at one point I thought they were going to designate I-369 for the Audubon Pkwy., but that may not be a priority for pursuing.  They only have one former toll booth cloverleaf to reconstruct on that road to bring it up to standards, as well as the usual round of additional guardrails.

SkyPesos

Agree with the above that an I-71 extension is better than a new 3di. It'll show I-71 as a SW-NE continuation of the also SW-NE I-69 corridor to the southwest to Ohio, western PA, western NY and parts of Ontario. Interestingly, If I-71 gets extended to the I-69/I-169 junction, that would make I-71 the longest interstate in KY, at 237 miles long.

MATraveler128

Seems silly to end the I-569 at I-165. But they really should have proposed this as either an I-71 extension or perhaps a new even 5x, like I-56 or I-58. As for the Audubon Parkway becoming I-369, I'm assuming those plans are dead.
Decommission 128 south of Peabody!

Lowest untraveled number: 56

WKDAVE

Quote from: BlueOutback7 on May 01, 2022, 08:37:01 AM
Seems silly to end the I-569 at I-165. But they really should have proposed this as either an I-71 extension or perhaps a new even 5x, like I-56 or I-58. As for the Audubon Parkway becoming I-369, I'm assuming those plans are dead.

Audubon cannot become interstate spur until it connects to interstate. Therefore no work will be done until the state gets closer to extending I-69 past Audubon interchange to US 60.  Since, as has been pointed out, the necessary upgrades are minor, it will not take long to get Audubon up to standards after I-69 is extended.

MATraveler128

Quote from: WKDAVE on May 01, 2022, 09:42:20 AM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on May 01, 2022, 08:37:01 AM
Seems silly to end the I-569 at I-165. But they really should have proposed this as either an I-71 extension or perhaps a new even 5x, like I-56 or I-58. As for the Audubon Parkway becoming I-369, I’m assuming those plans are dead.

Audubon cannot become interstate spur until it connects to interstate. Therefore no work will be done until the state gets closer to extending I-69 past Audubon interchange to US 60.  Since, as has been pointed out, the necessary upgrades are minor, it will not take long to get Audubon up to standards after I-69 is extended.

Wouldn’t be the first time an Interstate doesn’t connect to another Interstate. See I-69E, I-69C, and I-2. Yes I know those three connect to each other, but they don’t touch the rest of the system.
Decommission 128 south of Peabody!

Lowest untraveled number: 56

hbelkins

FWIW, the "Future I-69 Spur" signs have been gone from the Audubon for several years.

I don't get the point of a lengthy overlap with another interstate just to give the section of the WK between I-165 and I-65 a number as an extension of I-71. Whatever number the route between the Pennyrile and the Natcher becomes should be extended to I-65. The only tollbooth cloverleaf on that section (at Leitchfield) has already been converted to a diamond, so few if any changes should be necessary to bring it up to interstate standards.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

The Ghostbuster

If Interstate 71 were extended south along Interstate 65 to the eastern terminus of the Western Kentucky Parkway, the co-currency of the two Interstates would be about 45.3 miles long. Not the longest co-currency in the country (Interstates 80 and 90 run together for 278.4 miles in Indiana and Ohio), but it would be a significant co-currency for the state of Kentucky (Interstates 24 and 69 are co-current for about 16.7 miles, and Interstate 71 is co-current with Interstate 75 for about 20 miles). That's probably why the Western Kentucky Parkway is becoming another 3di of Interstate 69.

Life in Paradise

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 03, 2022, 04:14:51 PM
If Interstate 71 were extended south along Interstate 65 to the eastern terminus of the Western Kentucky Parkway, the co-currency of the two Interstates would be about 45.3 miles long. Not the longest co-currency in the country (Interstates 80 and 90 run together for 278.4 miles in Indiana and Ohio), but it would be a significant co-currency for the state of Kentucky (Interstates 24 and 69 are co-current for about 16.7 miles, and Interstate 71 is co-current with Interstate 75 for about 20 miles). That's probably why the Western Kentucky Parkway is becoming another 3di of Interstate 69.

If that would be the reason, I would feel it is a very poor reason not to have I-71 badged on the Western Kentucky Parkway for a 3di.  Kentucky is planning too many of those 3di's for my taste.  I would have rather KY had done the North Carolina thing and made what is now I-165 and the Audubon Parkway a 2d.  If NC got I-73, I-74, I-89, and I-42 approved, that for sure would have been approved (Take your pick 52, 54, 56, 58, 60-strike that, 62).  I can see the I-169 to Hopkinsville, but that is still a bit of a stretch.  The Cumberland Parkway 3d also would be too much.  I'd just as well have them badge it the same as the 2d from Henderson to Bowling Green and extend it to Somerset (it will at some time in the future...perhaps 22nd century) make it to I-75.

NWI_Irish96

I just used I-24, I-69, WK Pkwy and I-65 to get from Paducah to Louisville yesterday. Being two major cities in the state, it would make sense to have a single route number connecting those two cities, or at least as far as I-69.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

JREwing78

The combined distance from the I-69/I-169 interchange at Madisonville to I-65/I-75 in Lexington is about 190 miles. It's fairly short for a 2DI interstate, but there are plenty of shorter ones. Like others, I struggle with whether it has to have an Interstate route number at all - and what type.

Here's where I'm going to go whole-hog fictional and state there's a logic for a single Interstate highway designation connecting Lexington to Wichita, KS. I deem it I-46, and it's going places! Namely:

- US-400 corridor east of Wichita to Joplin, MO
- Concurrency w/ I-44 to Springfield, MO
- US-60 corridor east to Sikeston, MO (I-55 @ I-57)
- New-terrain Mississippi River crossing from roughly Charleston, MO to Wickliffe, KY.
- New-terrain corridor from Wickliffe, KY to Paducah, KY
- Co-signed with I-24 and I-69 east to I-169 @ Madisonville
- W KY Parkway east to Elizabethtown
- Bluegrass Pkwy east to Lexington

In a lot of ways, this is just a pretty line on a map. But it provides an additional important Mississippi River crossing, ties into the future I-30/I-57 corridor through Arkansas to connect to Dallas/Fort Worth, and adds E-W mobility in a region that's pretty light on it. It would also provide another path to the NE for freight to help relieve traffic on I-40 and I-81.

Another option - this wouldn't be a half-bad way to extend I-30 eastward - extend it along the US-67 corridor currently slated for I-57, then eastward to Paducah and along to Lexington. The big missing ingredient is the Sikeston -> Paducah stretch, and it would probably attract enough revenue to make the numbers work for a tollway.

Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Alps


JREwing78

Fair enough. But if I'm going to the trouble of slapping an Interstate shield on a highway, I'm going to have ambitions beyond putting an Interstate shield between some podunk town and some other podunk town. Unlike Tennessee, there's no single Interstate route connecting the western and eastern ends of Kentucky. A single route connecting Paducah and Lexington is a decent start, but a new Mississippi River crossing suddenly opens up some opportunities for Paducah and the rest of western KY.

Slapping a 3DI shield on just the Western Kentucky Parkway without some logical inter-connectivity makes it basically an Interstate to nowhere. 

seicer

The western terminus of the Western Kentucky Parkway was Interstate 24, a major regional interstate; it now terminates at Interstate 69 further east, which is becoming a major regional interstate in the Midwest. At its eastern terminus is Interstate 65, a major interstate, and only a mile from the Bluegrass Parkway. While much of the Parkway is very rural, it once crossed through some prosperous coal mining areas that began to decline in the 1980s. It now sees its biggest growth in Elizabethtown where the new Ford SK battery plant (with its 5,000 jobs) is being built. Think of the scale of Toyota at Georgetown back in 1989 - that's what's coming to Elizabethtown. Certainly not a "podunk" town.

Alps

Quote from: seicer on November 14, 2022, 08:28:48 PM
The western terminus of the Western Kentucky Parkway was Interstate 24, a major regional interstate; it now terminates at Interstate 69 further east, which is becoming a major regional interstate in the Midwest. At its eastern terminus is Interstate 65, a major interstate, and only a mile from the Bluegrass Parkway. While much of the Parkway is very rural, it once crossed through some prosperous coal mining areas that began to decline in the 1980s. It now sees its biggest growth in Elizabethtown where the new Ford SK battery plant (with its 5,000 jobs) is being built. Think of the scale of Toyota at Georgetown back in 1989 - that's what's coming to Elizabethtown. Certainly not a "podunk" town.
NC would get an I- for far less reason than this.

skluth

Quote from: JREwing78 on November 14, 2022, 08:15:07 PM
Fair enough. But if I'm going to the trouble of slapping an Interstate shield on a highway, I'm going to have ambitions beyond putting an Interstate shield between some podunk town and some other podunk town. Unlike Tennessee, there's no single Interstate route connecting the western and eastern ends of Kentucky. A single route connecting Paducah and Lexington is a decent start, but a new Mississippi River crossing suddenly opens up some opportunities for Paducah and the rest of western KY.

There is no requirement that every state get a single cross-state interstate in a cardinal direction. As it is, it is possible to cross Kentucky from west-to-east while staying entirely on limited access roads. Drivers don't have a single cross-state route in neighboring Virginia either. Can't go N-S in Kansas, Nebraska, Wisconsin, or Minnesota the entire length of the state on interstates at all, though all but Nebraska can at least cross N-S on four lane highways for essentially the entire length (there's not enough traffic to International Falls to four-lane north of Hibbing-Virginia).

That said, I do agree a highway connecting Kentucky and Missouri across the Mississippi connecting US 60 across Missouri with the Kentucky freeways and parkways at Paducah would be a good thing, giving travelers an alternate from the heavily trafficked and underbuilt I-44 (which needs six lanes due to trucks clogging up the roads over all the Ozark hills between St Louis and Springfield MO). But that's a discussion for fictional.

hbelkins

Remember, there was a huge battle over what route the proposed westward expansion of I-66 would take. There was a huge push by central Kentucky interests to route I-66 concurrently from West Virginia down I-64, somehow get it over to the Bluegrass Parkway, and then down the BG and WK Parkways to I-24. But Congressman Daniel Boone Hal Rogers prevailed to get I-66 routed across the Cumberland Parkway, with improvements to the HR Parkway and a new-terrain alignment from Hazard past Pikeville to West Virginia.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

seicer

When I was doing research for Interstate 24's crossing of the Ohio River at Paducah, I came across articles referencing proposed paths of that interstate back in the late 1960s/1970s. It wasn't set in stone until fairly late - with alternatives going westward toward Cairo (which was much more important back then) and others going north and west by Paducah.

Even today, the bridges at Cairo are well under capacity. The replacement US 51/US 60 bridge between Cairo and Wickliffe will only be two lanes - which is more than adequate e.

RoadWarrior56

Somewhere buried in an earlier forum thread on this site, I linked to a newspaper article from archives that I had found that discussed the alternatives for I-24 and the final agreement that led to the current routing for I-24, as well as the creation of I-155 between Tennessee and Missouri (referred to in those days as I-24W), which was part of the compromise agreement.  I think the final routings were agreed to in early 1964, and brokered by LBJ with the governors of the affected states.




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