North Carolina

[Strider]

Wow, Greenville. They will probably get a I-x87 spur, but the talks about Quad East beltway.. 

I don't mind having I-73, I-74 (meh), and I-42 around, but I agree with the above post that I-87 is not really needed. I just hope we don't get too many interstates, however it seems like we are headed for that. (oh boy). Which state has too many interstates? California? Texas? New York City area?

[sparker]

IMO, the die was cast for the I-87 corridor back in 1991, when HPC #13 was part of the first batch of ISTEA corridors to be established.  Another piece of the puzzle was added six years later, when the construction-trade publication "Roads & Bridges" touted a Hampton Roads-centered corridor going up the Delmarva to I-95 in northern Delaware and then south along HPC-13 to Raleigh (they referred to it as "I-101" at the time).  It's pretty much been on the interest-group radar ever since (and we roadgeeks haven't done much to dispel the concept except to bitch about the choice of numbers!).  And those interest groups, especially NC-based ones, seem to have as of late displayed more than enough clout with NCDOT to sway them to "join the party", so to speak.

But eventually there will be that camelback-breaking "last straw" -- or a proverbial bridge too far -- where one party or another will realize that available resources are being stretched past practical limits.   Whether that's promoting the "Quad East" concept or simply pushing for enhancement of US 264 is yet to be seen.  This part of NC is already getting more than their share of road projects, Interstate or otherwise; it might be wise for their local political actors to refrain from "poking the bear" for even more!

[LM117]

Wow, Greenville. They will probably get a I-x87 spur, but the talks about Quad East beltway.. 

I don't have a problem with US-264 becoming an I-x87 between Zebulon and Greenville in the future, but it's laughable that the Pitt County Commissioners think that upgrading US-264 is such an urgent need, which it isn't.

US-70, on the other hand, definitely needs upgraded. It carries a lot more traffic than US-264 and the non-freeway sections that haven't been either bypassed or upgraded yet have serious safety issues. Pitt County is just embarrassing themselves at this point and making the area look bad.

However, remember what I posted earlier. Kinston was the one who originally came up with the Quad East idea back in 2013 when they got pissed after hearing that Greenville was trying to get US-264 upgraded since Kinston was (rightfully) worried that it would take attention away from US-70. I think Kinston went a bit overboard with the Quad East idea, but I couldn't blame them for feeling like they had the carpet yanked from under them. Ironically, Greenville felt the same way about Kinston and US-264.

In short, the Quad East idea is basically a "I scratch your back, you scratch my back" kind of deal. Funny thing is, to my knowledge, neither Wayne nor Wilson counties and their cities have said anything about it, which tells you something.

[PColumbus73]

So is I-495 simply a placeholder now for I-87? I wonder if they can just replace I-495 to prevent redundancy.

[LM117]

So is I-495 simply a placeholder now for I-87? I wonder if they can just replace I-495 to prevent redundancy.

Yes, and NCDOT intends to decommission I-495. They haven't said specifically when they will do it, but I think it's a safe bet they will send applications to AASHTO in time for their meeting in November to decommission I-495/Future I-495 and at the same time ask that I-87 take over I-495's place. FHWA will still have to give final approval, but I don't expect any problems.

AASHTO's deadline for accepting applications for their November meeting is September 16.

[PColumbus73]

So when are we going to see I-89 going from Williamston to Wilmington? HA!

[CanesFan27]

So is I-495 simply a placeholder now for I-87? I wonder if they can just replace I-495 to prevent redundancy.

It is now a placeholder - but when first proposed it wasn't.  495 will stick around til first of the year at least maybe December.

[The Ghostbuster]

If Interstate 87 makes it to the Norfolk area, is it possible that the existing exit numbers in North Carolina may be changed from using US 64's mileage to Interstate 87 mileage? And could such a conversion eventually be in store for future Interstate 42?

[WashuOtaku]

If Interstate 87 makes it to the Norfolk area, is it possible that the existing exit numbers in North Carolina may be changed from using US 64's mileage to Interstate 87 mileage? And could such a conversion eventually be in store for future Interstate 42?

The answer is yes, the mile markers and exit numbers will change to I-87/I-42.

[bob7374]

If Interstate 87 makes it to the Norfolk area, is it possible that the existing exit numbers in North Carolina may be changed from using US 64's mileage to Interstate 87 mileage? And could such a conversion eventually be in store for future Interstate 42?

The answer is yes, the mile markers and exit numbers will change to I-87/I-42.

Though it will be interesting to see when this will occur. Recent NCDOT practices are not helpful in figuring this out. They may decide to switch exit numbers early on, even on sections that are not upgraded, like they have on US 74 for the future segments of I-74, east of I-95, or they may leave existing numbers in place and not choose to change them presumably until the route is connected to a new segment, such as with Future I-74 along the Rockingham Bypass or US 52 west/north of Winston-Salem.

[LM117]

If Interstate 87 makes it to the Norfolk area, is it possible that the existing exit numbers in North Carolina may be changed from using US 64's mileage to Interstate 87 mileage? And could such a conversion eventually be in store for future Interstate 42?

The answer is yes, the mile markers and exit numbers will change to I-87/I-42.

Though it will be interesting to see when this will occur. Recent NCDOT practices are not helpful in figuring this out. They may decide to switch exit numbers early on, even on sections that are not upgraded, like they have on US 74 for the future segments of I-74, east of I-95, or they may leave existing numbers in place and not choose to change them presumably until the route is connected to a new segment, such as with Future I-74 along the Rockingham Bypass or US 52 west/north of Winston-Salem.

Or worst case scenario, they could just leave it as-is even after I-42 and I-87 is complete, like they did with the I-795/US-264 concurrency in Wilson.

[WashuOtaku]

If Interstate 87 makes it to the Norfolk area, is it possible that the existing exit numbers in North Carolina may be changed from using US 64's mileage to Interstate 87 mileage? And could such a conversion eventually be in store for future Interstate 42?

The answer is yes, the mile markers and exit numbers will change to I-87/I-42.

Though it will be interesting to see when this will occur. Recent NCDOT practices are not helpful in figuring this out. They may decide to switch exit numbers early on, even on sections that are not upgraded, like they have on US 74 for the future segments of I-74, east of I-95, or they may leave existing numbers in place and not choose to change them presumably until the route is connected to a new segment, such as with Future I-74 along the Rockingham Bypass or US 52 west/north of Winston-Salem.

Or worst case scenario, they could just leave it as-is even after I-42 and I-87 is complete, like they did with the I-795/US-264 concurrency in Wilson.

Worst case scenario is unlikely.  While there are several examples of three-digit interstates using US Highway mileage instead of their own (see I-585 Spartanburg), there isn't an example I'm aware of of a two-digit doing that.  Also, we have seen NCDOT update the mileage along I-73 once that entire section south of Greensboro was signed; while the Greensboro section was converted first, the Asheboro section wasn't done until the entire stretch between Greensboro to Ellerbe was completed.

So it is either piecemeal updates or wait till a long stretch is completed, we have examples of NCDOT doing both.

[NE2]

Worst case scenario is unlikely.  While there are several examples of three-digit interstates using US Highway mileage instead of their own (see I-585 Spartanburg), there isn't an example I'm aware of of a two-digit doing that.

I-39 Wisconsin?

[Mppheel]

Although I drive this stretch of US 17 almost weekly, I just noticed that the exit # on 17 south on the Neuse River Bridge for the exit that takes you to either us 70 east or downtown New Bern is exit 417.  That cannot be using 17's mileage.  It must be for 70.. Why though?

[slorydn1]

Although I drive this stretch of US 17 almost weekly, I just noticed that the exit # on 17 south on the Neuse River Bridge for the exit that takes you to either us 70 east or downtown New Bern is exit 417.  That cannot be using 17's mileage.  It must be for 70.. Why though?

It is US-70's mileage. To this day, I am not sure why they did that southbound on US-17, the bridge has been US-17 since the day it opened in September 1999. I seem to remember some talk that it would be easier for us in the public safety community to keep track of incidents that way, but it really hasn't. For every 911 call that comes in about a wreck at the "417 exit" we have to spend at least 30 seconds or more nailing down which of the 3 exits with that designation the wreck is near-and it makes a huge difference as to which fire dept and ambulance we send to it.

Add to that the fact that almost no one who calls these in knows which route they are on, which bridge they are on, or what cardinal direction they are travelling, well, you can see why it is so maddening! 

[OracleUsr]

Won't that change anyway when the US 17 bypass is completed west of New Bern?  Yeah, that exit 417 sign (not to mention the huge lettering that was present there in 2011) got my attention when I was driving from Williamston to New Bern on US 17.  Weird logic...only  thing I can think of is that the US 17 highway merges onto US 70, but even then I've never seen something like that

[CanesFan27]

Moved and updated the History of the Interstate 40 Extension page to the blog.  The large update and refresh to the original text details the timeline of construction of I-40 from Raleigh to Wilmington.  The decision to build 40 along US 117 vs. the seemingly odds on favorite of US 421.  And also the political funding battles in both Washington and Raleigh in the 1980s.

I'll admit I miss doing pages like this.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2016/08/to-shore-north-carolinas-struggle-to.html

[slorydn1]

Moved and updated the History of the Interstate 40 Extension page to the blog.  The large update and refresh to the original text details the timeline of construction of I-40 from Raleigh to Wilmington.  The decision to build 40 along US 117 vs. the seemingly odds on favorite of US 421.  And also the political funding battles in both Washington and Raleigh in the 1980s.

I'll admit I miss doing pages like this.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2016/08/to-shore-north-carolinas-struggle-to.html

And I admit to missing reading them!

This page that you have recreated here is one that I have quoted many times over the years both in verbal discussions with friends and online.

[LM117]

Update on the US-17 widening project.

http://wnct.com/2016/08/16/highway-17-project-to-completely-bypass-pollocksville-maysville/

POLLOCKSVILLE,  N.C. (WNCT) — As the east grows, more and more cars travel the roads every day.

For some in Jones County, that means heavy traffic right down main street in their once sleepy towns.

As a waitress, Christine Phillips sees plenty of traffic in and out of Trent Family Restaurant in Pollocksville getting a bite to eat. And there's lots of traffic outside the restaurant, too.

According to NCDOT, 10,600 cars a day travel the stretch of US 17 between Jacksonville and New Bern. That includes going right through the heart of small towns like Pollocksville and Maysville.

A project is underway to take a lot of that traffic out of those towns.

"Sixteen miles, 25 bridges,"  explained Brad McMannen, NCDOT resident engineer. "And speed limits will range from 60 miles an hour to 70 miles an hour."

It's a $143-million project that'll upgrade that stretch of US 17 to four lanes, completely bypassing Maysville and Pollocksville.

"Construction started in October of last year,"  said McMannen. "[The] Contractor is currently building roadway, kind of in two sections. One section is between Belgrade and Maysville on new alignment. And the other section everybody can see is between, just north of Maysville on the existing 17."

But not only will the finished product ease traffic in those Jones County towns, it will also make a safer drive for everyone along that section of Highway 17.

"A lot of that section is just two lanes with the double yellow lines in the median,"  explained McMannen. "Basically with the high speeds, the amount of traffic, it's very dangerous. [There's} A lot of head on collisions. The biggest part is putting four lanes and getting that divided median, separating the two directions of traffic."

The work isn't expected to be done until 2020. And Christine can't wait to see how it affects her daily commute from Swansboro.

"I hope [it will be] better,"  said Christine Phillips, Trent Family Restaurant waitress. "I won't be behind somebody that don't move. Because I won't pass. So hopefully it will be better for me."

Less traffic through small towns and a safer drive both sound like good things. But some in Pollocksville and Maysville are concerned about the effect the bypass will have on business in their towns.

9 On Your Side will take a closer look Tuesday on Growing The East.

I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and guess that the new alignment will be a 70mph freeway while the upgraded sections will be 60-65mph.

Roadgeek moment: In the vid thumbnail, notice the interstate shield being used as a background for "Growing the East".

[slorydn1]

Update on the US-17 widening project.

http://wnct.com/2016/08/16/highway-17-project-to-completely-bypass-pollocksville-maysville/

POLLOCKSVILLE,  N.C. (WNCT) – As the east grows, more and more cars travel the roads every day.

For some in Jones County, that means heavy traffic right down main street in their once sleepy towns.

As a waitress, Christine Phillips sees plenty of traffic in and out of Trent Family Restaurant in Pollocksville getting a bite to eat. And there’s lots of traffic outside the restaurant, too.

According to NCDOT, 10,600 cars a day travel the stretch of US 17 between Jacksonville and New Bern. That includes going right through the heart of small towns like Pollocksville and Maysville.

A project is underway to take a lot of that traffic out of those towns.

“Sixteen miles, 25 bridges,” explained Brad McMannen, NCDOT resident engineer. “And speed limits will range from 60 miles an hour to 70 miles an hour.”

It’s a $143-million project that’ll upgrade that stretch of US 17 to four lanes, completely bypassing Maysville and Pollocksville.

“Construction started in October of last year,” said McMannen. “[The] Contractor is currently building roadway, kind of in two sections. One section is between Belgrade and Maysville on new alignment. And the other section everybody can see is between, just north of Maysville on the existing 17.”

But not only will the finished product ease traffic in those Jones County towns, it will also make a safer drive for everyone along that section of Highway 17.

“A lot of that section is just two lanes with the double yellow lines in the median,” explained McMannen. “Basically with the high speeds, the amount of traffic, it’s very dangerous. [There’s} A lot of head on collisions. The biggest part is putting four lanes and getting that divided median, separating the two directions of traffic.”

The work isn’t expected to be done until 2020. And Christine can’t wait to see how it affects her daily commute from Swansboro.

“I hope [it will be] better,” said Christine Phillips, Trent Family Restaurant waitress. “I won’t be behind somebody that don’t move. Because I won’t pass. So hopefully it will be better for me.”

Less traffic through small towns and a safer drive both sound like good things. But some in Pollocksville and Maysville are concerned about the effect the bypass will have on business in their towns.

9 On Your Side will take a closer look Tuesday on Growing The East.

I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and guess that the new alignment will be a 70mph freeway while the upgraded sections will be 60-65mph.

Roadgeek moment: In the vid thumbnail, notice the interstate shield being used as a background for "Growing the East".

This earlier story on WCTI's website explains the basic layout:

In a press release, it's state that once completed, the U.S. 17 widening projects will yield significant safety improvements by bringing the corridor up to modern standards, providing motorists with a four-lane divided highway with speed limits of 70 mph from the U.S 17 New Bern Bypass to just south of N.C. 58, and a speed limit of 60 mph from just south of N.C. 58 to Deppe Loop Road in Maysville.

[slorydn1]

I did a little digging.

Here is a pretty detailed description of the whole US-17 project in Onslow and Jones Counties:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ihWnHlGl-0YJ:https://xfer.services.ncdot.gov/pdea/EnvironmentalDocs/Documents/R-2514/R2514_SROD.pdf+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Mileage Mike]

Aside from I-42 I find most of this rural freeway building in Eastern NC to be silly and a massive waste of funds. Honestly things like I87 or the quad east loop shouldn't even be built in our lifetimes when NC has subpar freeways in areas like Charlotte and the Triangle where people actually use them. US 64 and 264 already have low traffic counts as it is. Guess it shows how much political power the rural areas still wield in this state. While I do love seeing new highways get built it just doesn't make sense to build all these roads to nowhere when you seem to not be able to find funding to address pressing issues in your largest cities.

[wdcrft63]

Aside from I-42 I find most of this rural freeway building in Eastern NC to be silly and a massive waste of funds. Honestly things like I87 or the quad east loop shouldn't even be built in our lifetimes when NC has subpar freeways in areas like Charlotte and the Triangle where people actually use them. US 64 and 264 already have low traffic counts as it is. Guess it shows how much political power the rural areas still wield in this state. While I do love seeing new highways get built it just doesn't make sense to build all these roads to nowhere when you seem to not be able to find funding to address pressing issues in your largest cities.

I'm happy to see the obsolete 2-lane segments of US 17 upgraded, but I'm also a Triangle resident sympathetic to your comments. We have urgently needed projects, such as widening I-40 between 440 and the future I-42, and widening 440 between Wade Avenue and I-40/US 64.

[LM117]

Aside from I-42 I find most of this rural freeway building in Eastern NC to be silly and a massive waste of funds. Honestly things like I87 or the quad east loop shouldn't even be built in our lifetimes when NC has subpar freeways in areas like Charlotte and the Triangle where people actually use them. US 64 and 264 already have low traffic counts as it is. Guess it shows how much political power the rural areas still wield in this state. While I do love seeing new highways get built it just doesn't make sense to build all these roads to nowhere when you seem to not be able to find funding to address pressing issues in your largest cities.

I'm happy to see the obsolete 2-lane segments of US 17 upgraded, but I'm also a Triangle resident sympathetic to your comments. We have urgently needed projects, such as widening I-40 between 440 and the future I-42, and widening 440 between Wade Avenue and I-40/US 64.

Speaking as someone who's from eastern NC, I have to agree. However, I would like to see the new alignment part of I-795's extension get built, which would run from Ash Street in Goldsboro to US-117 south of the Wayne County Fairgrounds near US-13. Once the US-117/Oberry Road interchange is complete and the new alignment part gets built, there won't be any traffic lights between existing I-795 in Goldsboro and I-40 near Faison. The rest of US-117 between Mar-Mac and I-40 can easily wait to be upgraded.

I'm not saying I-795's extension is more important than projects in the Triangle or Charlotte, but I don't think it would be a wasteful eastern NC project IMO.

[slorydn1]

Well, I see we are back to our old Charlotte/Triangle versus rural NC selves again. I was starting to worry that the whole state was getting together too well as of late. I am relieved things havent changed all that much.

Some of the Triangles woes I have sympathy for. Charlotte, on the other hand, I can't. Not when I when I flip open my Rand McNally and see the sea of blue roads in and around it. Hopefully the city dwellers will start taking advantage of some of the public transportation projects that are under way there and road traffic will lessen some.

Now, I will agree, not everything built out this way absolutely needs to be freeway, but I'm not complaining that they are getting built. Towns are pretty far apart and it gets to be a real pita getting stuck behind a farm tractor that refuses to pull off the road for miles on end, with no way to get around it because there is a non-stop line of traffic coming in the other direction.

I'd be perfectly happy with just expressways as long as they bumped the speed limit up to 60-65 on them, but I'm not gonna be-atch about 70 mph freeways either.

Its nice that we are finally getting our due after 60 years of Charlotte hogging all the transportation money.