Interstate 81 in Syracuse

[vdeane]

As I recall, NY 198 ran into problems because community groups thought it didn't go far enough.

(personal opinion)

[cl94]

198 was...a mess. I can't say a lot about it in a public forum, but it was stopped at many levels. But yes, it was a "compromise solution" that the NIMBYs hated because it didn't go far enough and the feds hated because it axed a major artery.

[The Ghostbuster]

So, construction on turning Interstate 81 into a boulevard hasn't begun yet (not that I'm surprised). I hope the proposed federal review rejects the "community grid" and recommends the "rebuild the viaduct plan", although in a way that mitigates the impacts of that reconstruction. There should also be aesthetic improvements that make the viaduct less of an eyesore.

[kalvado]

So, construction on turning Interstate 81 into a boulevard hasn't begun yet (not that I'm surprised). I hope the proposed federal review rejects the "community grid" and recommends the "rebuild the viaduct plan", although in a way that mitigates the impacts of that reconstruction. There should also be aesthetic improvements that make the viaduct less of an eyesore.

Keep dreaming. Truth is community grid is a best case scenario. More realistic option though 

[...] that current I-81 will be falling down before anything is done to reroute it. We're in for a long set of court battles here. NY has tried to remove a couple other urban freeways Upstate and quietly tabled the proposals, so...

(Personal opinion emphasized)

[Plutonic Panda]

The best option would be a tunnel like every other city in the world outside of the US embraces.

[kalvado]

The best option would be a tunnel like every other city in the world outside of the US embraces.

An even better option would be to install a teleportation system like every other civilized planet in the galaxy outside of Earth embraces!
Let this conclude the sci-fi portion of discussion and move to real  stuff.

[Plutonic Panda]

The best option would be a tunnel like every other city in the world outside of the US embraces.

An even better option would be to install a teleportation system like every other civilized planet in the galaxy outside of Earth embraces!
Let this conclude the sci-fi portion of discussion and move to real  stuff.

It is incredible that tunnels are compared to teleportation in the US.

[sprjus4]

The best option would be a tunnel like every other city in the world outside of the US embraces.

Much more expensive than the viaduct option. Unless you want to slap a hefty toll on it.

[Plutonic Panda]

The best option would be a tunnel like every other city in the world outside of the US embraces.

Much more expensive than the viaduct option. Unless you want to slap a hefty toll on it.

A tolled road is better than no road, IMO. I sucks it is so taboo to build road tunnels anymore in the US.

[Rothman]

Considering options besides the community grid now is futile.  The project has progressed too far through design and there's no reason for FHWA to reject it to the point where other options would be back on the table (especially the tunnel nonsense).

(personal opinion emphasized)

[kalvado]

The best option would be a tunnel like every other city in the world outside of the US embraces.

Much more expensive than the viaduct option. Unless you want to slap a hefty toll on it.

A tolled road is better than no road, IMO. I sucks it is so taboo to build road tunnels anymore in the US.

I surely hope this comes from a well meaning person. However being from a well to do area, you may fail to  grasp the meaning of a few words to be used in description of Syracuse situation.
Those words are "expensive", "poverty" and "arithmetic".
I invite you to find an envelope and use the backside to estimate the toll we are talking about. All the numbers you will need are mentioned in this thread. My calculations produce some numbers which make E-470 and Pennsylvania turnpike look cheap.
Now try to compare that with city of Syracuse means. Hint: average household income in the city is a touch below 50% on US median.

[sprjus4]

^

Not to mention, through traffic volumes that are not high enough to make a toll self supporting.

[cl94]

Considering options besides the community grid now is futile.  The project has progressed too far through design and there's no reason for FHWA to reject it to the point where other options would be back on the table (especially the tunnel nonsense).

(personal opinion emphasized)

Agree completely. But I could totally see FHWA wanting additional improvements to 481 beyond what NY has proposed, especially given who is in charge right now and the Congressional representation. Has there ever been anything like this before that wasn't the result of a road plain falling down? The Sheridan had no traffic, so it isn't particularly comparable.

(Personal opinion emphasized)

[mrsman]

^

Not to mention, through traffic volumes that are not high enough to make a toll self supporting.

The ironic thing is having a road like I-81 with tolls would just push more traffic onto I-481.  How many people would stay on I-81 with tolls?  Would that be more than what the surface streets under the community grid plan can handle?

Probably not.

[The Ghostbuster]

Have they started construction on the "community grid" yet? Or are they waiting for the viaduct to fall down first?

[Rothman]

Have they started construction on the "community grid" yet? Or are they waiting for the viaduct to fall down first?

It's technically still in design.  First construction will be on I-481.

[yakra]

You wouldn't know US 421 or 29/70 would be a viable alternate route that takes you downtown, but an even 3di would give you that information.

Would it though?

Code Select Expand

yakra@BiggaTomato:~/TravelMapping/HighwayData/hwy_data$ for r in `ls */usai/*.wpt | sed 's~^../usai/\(.*\)\.wpt~\1~' | grep '^..\.i[2468]'`; do firefox "https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=$r"; done
Right away, we have have counterexamples in Little Rock.

[Buffaboy]

Is it just me or are infrastructure projects much more expensive here in the U.S. than in other countries? Back in the 1950s it didn't cost nearly as much to build a highway. Today, building four miles of highway could cost hundreds of millions of dollars. Look at U.S. 219 in Cattaraugus County. They can't even figure out how to extend it another 20-ish miles to Salamanca with the terrain, budget and land issues.

[Rothman]

Is it just me or are infrastructure projects much more expensive here in the U.S. than in other countries? Back in the 1950s it didn't cost nearly as much to build a highway. Today, building four miles of highway could cost hundreds of millions of dollars. Look at U.S. 219 in Cattaraugus County. They can't even figure out how to extend it another 20-ish miles to Salamanca with the terrain, budget and land issues.

Given how many people have mentioned this hunch, it is not just you.

[Plutonic Panda]

Have I mentioned fuck the community grid?

[The Ghostbuster]

I second that. However, it looks like that is what will ultimately be built. If Syracuse residents and commuters bitch about how the "community grid" has made things worse for them, we can give them a we-told-you-so!

[kalvado]

I second that. However, it looks like that is what will ultimately be built. If Syracuse residents and commuters bitch about how the "community grid" has made things worse for them, we can give them a we-told-you-so!

In your infinite wisdom, what would you call a better solution? Bulldozing remainder of the town or robbing Fort Knox to pay for construction?

[TheDon102]

I second that. However, it looks like that is what will ultimately be built. If Syracuse residents and commuters bitch about how the "community grid" has made things worse for them, we can give them a we-told-you-so!

In your infinite wisdom, what would you call a better solution? Bulldozing remainder of the town or robbing Fort Knox to pay for construction?

Bulldozing the town?? Sounds like a strawman. The proposed new viaduct wasn't the cross bronx... less than 25 properties would have been affected.

[Alps]

I second that. However, it looks like that is what will ultimately be built. If Syracuse residents and commuters bitch about how the "community grid" has made things worse for them, we can give them a we-told-you-so!

In your infinite wisdom, what would you call a better solution? Bulldozing remainder of the town or robbing Fort Knox to pay for construction?

Put freeway at ground level. Sink rest of city below it.

[froggie]

Have I mentioned fuck the community grid?

You're entitled to your opinion.  But, given your posting record (both here and on Facebook), you don't seem to understand that freeways are not always the right answer.