Cuomo Signs

Started by machias, October 21, 2016, 12:51:57 PM

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vdeane

The FHWA should really meet with Cuomo, not Driscoll.  He's the one who ordered the signs be put up, and Driscoll has no authority over the Thruway, which has a large number of the signs.  Now I wouldn't be surprised if Driscoll isn't around much longer... he'll either be the commissioner who disobeyed Cuomo, or the commissioner who cost the state a billion dollars in highway funding.  Awkward!

(personal opinion emphasized)
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.


goldfishcrackers4

Any new information on the Cuomo signs? A meeting was to take place. Cuomo should be ordered to pay for these, personally.
"It's the law (of physics). I don't share the road!"
-Unknown

kalvado

#52
Quote from: goldfishcrackers4 on December 07, 2016, 08:48:40 AM
Any new information on the Cuomo signs? A meeting was to take place. Cuomo should be ordered to pay for these, personally.
Wait a little bit, this will be about oh-so-progressive good for (insert current mantra) Cuomo II vs damn Trump administration withholding funds from NY for voting for Clinton. Only show stopper is that they have to wait for inauguration before proceeding..

Edited to reflect ever-changing politics

cl94

"Progressive" is a relative term, but I digress
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

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hbelkins

Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2016, 01:01:27 PM
The FHWA should really meet with Cuomo, not Driscoll.  He's the one who ordered the signs be put up, and Driscoll has no authority over the Thruway, which has a large number of the signs.  Now I wouldn't be surprised if Driscoll isn't around much longer... he'll either be the commissioner who disobeyed Cuomo, or the commissioner who cost the state a billion dollars in highway funding.  Awkward!

And FHWA has no authority over the Thruway.

I'd love to see this end up in court, and I'd love to see the FHWA lose. I've always thought the MUTCD was too anal-rententive and restrictive. Standard colors and shapes for stop signs, fine. But telling NYS it can't promote tourism on its highways? Over the top.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

kalvado

Quote from: hbelkins on December 07, 2016, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2016, 01:01:27 PM
The FHWA should really meet with Cuomo, not Driscoll.  He's the one who ordered the signs be put up, and Driscoll has no authority over the Thruway, which has a large number of the signs.  Now I wouldn't be surprised if Driscoll isn't around much longer... he'll either be the commissioner who disobeyed Cuomo, or the commissioner who cost the state a billion dollars in highway funding.  Awkward!

And FHWA has no authority over the Thruway.

I'd love to see this end up in court, and I'd love to see the FHWA lose. I've always thought the MUTCD was too anal-rententive and restrictive. Standard colors and shapes for stop signs, fine. But telling NYS it can't promote tourism on its highways? Over the top.

There are sets on free I-87, north of Albany. Hard to dispute FHWA authority over there.
And no, this is not about promoting anything - other than ego of one single person. I honestly tried that damn app. As useless as it gets.

Please also think from a different perspective - this is effectively about advertisement on highway. And that can get out of control pretty fast. I would rather have some variations of "exit" tab placement....

cl94

Quote from: kalvado on December 07, 2016, 01:39:05 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 07, 2016, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2016, 01:01:27 PM
The FHWA should really meet with Cuomo, not Driscoll.  He's the one who ordered the signs be put up, and Driscoll has no authority over the Thruway, which has a large number of the signs.  Now I wouldn't be surprised if Driscoll isn't around much longer... he'll either be the commissioner who disobeyed Cuomo, or the commissioner who cost the state a billion dollars in highway funding.  Awkward!

And FHWA has no authority over the Thruway.

I'd love to see this end up in court, and I'd love to see the FHWA lose. I've always thought the MUTCD was too anal-rententive and restrictive. Standard colors and shapes for stop signs, fine. But telling NYS it can't promote tourism on its highways? Over the top.

There are sets on free I-87, north of Albany. Hard to dispute FHWA authority over there.
And no, this is not about promoting anything - other than ego of one single person. I honestly tried that damn app. As useless as it gets.

Please also think from a different perspective - this is effectively about advertisement on highway. And that can get out of control pretty fast. I would rather have some variations of "exit" tab placement....

And there are signs on I-81, I-84, I-86, I-190 (the NYSDOT portion), I-390, I-495...

It's also not your tax dollars that are being wasted on this. We're the ones paying for Cuomo's ego trip.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

machias

Quote from: cl94 on December 07, 2016, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 07, 2016, 01:39:05 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 07, 2016, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2016, 01:01:27 PM
The FHWA should really meet with Cuomo, not Driscoll.  He's the one who ordered the signs be put up, and Driscoll has no authority over the Thruway, which has a large number of the signs.  Now I wouldn't be surprised if Driscoll isn't around much longer... he'll either be the commissioner who disobeyed Cuomo, or the commissioner who cost the state a billion dollars in highway funding.  Awkward!

And FHWA has no authority over the Thruway.

I'd love to see this end up in court, and I'd love to see the FHWA lose. I've always thought the MUTCD was too anal-rententive and restrictive. Standard colors and shapes for stop signs, fine. But telling NYS it can't promote tourism on its highways? Over the top.

There are sets on free I-87, north of Albany. Hard to dispute FHWA authority over there.
And no, this is not about promoting anything - other than ego of one single person. I honestly tried that damn app. As useless as it gets.

Please also think from a different perspective - this is effectively about advertisement on highway. And that can get out of control pretty fast. I would rather have some variations of "exit" tab placement....

And there are signs on I-81, I-84, I-86, I-190 (the NYSDOT portion), I-390, I-495...

It's also not your tax dollars that are being wasted on this. We're the ones paying for Cuomo's ego trip.

Not to mention the entrance of every state park, the exit of many airports and other such nonsense.  These signs do nothing to provide safety or guidance information to motorists. If the state wanted to spend millions of dollars on billboards that are installed according to local zoning laws regarding billboards, I'm fine with that. What Cuomo did here was bypass zoning laws for such advertisements and put advertising on road signs. There's no guidance. There's no service. There's no warning. It's just a sign, "We have parks!"  Why can't Pepsi now request signs that say "We have Pepsi!" Or "We have Pepsi in the parks!"  By using road signs for billboard purposes the state has opened a can of worms about advertising on roadways, has decreased motorist safety by encouraging motorists to download an app (while driving?) and other such nonsense. 

machias

Quote from: hbelkins on December 07, 2016, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2016, 01:01:27 PM
The FHWA should really meet with Cuomo, not Driscoll.  He's the one who ordered the signs be put up, and Driscoll has no authority over the Thruway, which has a large number of the signs.  Now I wouldn't be surprised if Driscoll isn't around much longer... he'll either be the commissioner who disobeyed Cuomo, or the commissioner who cost the state a billion dollars in highway funding.  Awkward!

And FHWA has no authority over the Thruway.

I'd love to see this end up in court, and I'd love to see the FHWA lose. I've always thought the MUTCD was too anal-rententive and restrictive. Standard colors and shapes for stop signs, fine. But telling NYS it can't promote tourism on its highways? Over the top.

And since the New York State Thruway carries Interstate designations, as well as the fact that the MUTCD is applicable to any roadway in NYS for public use, the Thruway falls under that jurisdiction. If the FHWA deems to signs as not compliant with the MUTCD, then those signs along the Thruway would also have to be removed.

kalvado

Quote from: upstatenyroads on December 07, 2016, 02:21:47 PM
Quote from: cl94 on December 07, 2016, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 07, 2016, 01:39:05 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 07, 2016, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2016, 01:01:27 PM
The FHWA should really meet with Cuomo, not Driscoll.  He's the one who ordered the signs be put up, and Driscoll has no authority over the Thruway, which has a large number of the signs.  Now I wouldn't be surprised if Driscoll isn't around much longer... he'll either be the commissioner who disobeyed Cuomo, or the commissioner who cost the state a billion dollars in highway funding.  Awkward!

And FHWA has no authority over the Thruway.

I'd love to see this end up in court, and I'd love to see the FHWA lose. I've always thought the MUTCD was too anal-rententive and restrictive. Standard colors and shapes for stop signs, fine. But telling NYS it can't promote tourism on its highways? Over the top.

There are sets on free I-87, north of Albany. Hard to dispute FHWA authority over there.
And no, this is not about promoting anything - other than ego of one single person. I honestly tried that damn app. As useless as it gets.

Please also think from a different perspective - this is effectively about advertisement on highway. And that can get out of control pretty fast. I would rather have some variations of "exit" tab placement....

And there are signs on I-81, I-84, I-86, I-190 (the NYSDOT portion), I-390, I-495...

It's also not your tax dollars that are being wasted on this. We're the ones paying for Cuomo's ego trip.

Not to mention the entrance of every state park, the exit of many airports and other such nonsense.  These signs do nothing to provide safety or guidance information to motorists. If the state wanted to spend millions of dollars on billboards that are installed according to local zoning laws regarding billboards, I'm fine with that. What Cuomo did here was bypass zoning laws for such advertisements and put advertising on road signs. There's no guidance. There's no service. There's no warning. It's just a sign, "We have parks!"  Why can't Pepsi now request signs that say "We have Pepsi!" Or "We have Pepsi in the parks!"  By using road signs for billboard purposes the state has opened a can of worms about advertising on roadways, has decreased motorist safety by encouraging motorists to download an app (while driving?) and other such nonsense.

Honestly speaking, having tourism information in the airport is pretty standard. I wouldn't mind these signs in airport lobby.
But trying to navigate a unfamiliar area.. I am guaranteed to ignore anything non-essential,  I-XX signs is what I usually look for.

vdeane

I hope Cuomo doesn't read that.  Then he'll start putting ads on the guide signs too!
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Flyer78

 :poke:

They are remarkably consistent signs, in design at least, and from a production standpoint. One region didn't decide to put boxes around the URL, another region didn't prefix the Experience line with unnecessary TO banners, and I have yet to see a place name mis-spelled. Of course, they were likely not fabricated by the regional sign shops...

Then again, spacing is completely random...

:wave:

machias

Quote from: Flyer78 on December 08, 2016, 10:55:49 AM
:poke:

They are remarkably consistent signs, in design at least, and from a production standpoint. One region didn't decide to put boxes around the URL, another region didn't prefix the Experience line with unnecessary TO banners, and I have yet to see a place name mis-spelled. Of course, they were likely not fabricated by the regional sign shops...

Then again, spacing is completely random...

:wave:

One thing I noticed this past weekend is that the word "Enjoy" in a script font is left off the Thruway versions of the signs, resulting in a blank line. There must have been some mandate saying all the signs except the motherboard had to be a certain size.

SignBridge

I just realized half of these signs will probably get knocked down in snowstorms this winter, like happens to a lot of signs every winter.

roadman

#64
Quote from: SignBridge on December 08, 2016, 08:11:23 PM
I just realized half of these signs will probably get knocked down in snowstorms this winter, like happens to a lot of signs every winter.


Although not applicable to NY state (thanks vdeane for the clarification), it's very unusual for extruded panel signs on steel beam supports to get knocked down by snowstorms.  What typically happens in those rare instances when such a sign is hit by a severe blast of snow (usually from a plow, and not the storm itself) is that the breakaway hinges will fail, causing the panel to flop over on the back of the posts.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

cl94

Quote from: roadman on December 09, 2016, 09:20:35 AM
Quote from: SignBridge on December 08, 2016, 08:11:23 PM
I just realized half of these signs will probably get knocked down in snowstorms this winter, like happens to a lot of signs every winter.


Actually, it's very unusual for extruded panel signs on steel beam supports to get knocked down by snowstorms.  What typically happens in those rare instances when such a sign is hit by a severe blast of snow (usually from a plow, and not the storm itself) is that the breakaway hinges will fail, causing the panel to flop over on the back of the posts.

Minor detail: New York doesn't use extruded signs.
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Jim

In all my Upstate NY winters, I can't recall noticing very many signs being damaged due to snowstorms.  While I suppose we can hope that some plow drivers will do their best to take some of these out, I am not holding out hope.
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Flyer78

Here is a marketing consultant's take on the signs: not busy enough.


http://www.syracuse.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/12/problem_with_thruway_tourism_signs_they_arent_distracting_enough_commentary.html#incart_river_home


Quote
A good reason the signs should not come down as the feds want is that tourism grows jobs and tax revenues. This is especially important in economically lagging areas Upstate that are not always good prospects for attracting industry.

But there's also a good reason they should come down. It's that as tourism marketing, they're just not very good signs.

Displaying a traffic engineer's knowledge of marketing, the signs simply don't sell. They show four state tourism logos for historic attractions, recreational destinations, food and drink spots, and other I-Love-New-York attractions but convey almost no other information.

kalvado

Quote from: Flyer78 on December 09, 2016, 11:34:16 AM
Here is a marketing consultant's take on the signs: not busy enough.


http://www.syracuse.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/12/problem_with_thruway_tourism_signs_they_arent_distracting_enough_commentary.html#incart_river_home


Quote
A good reason the signs should not come down as the feds want is that tourism grows jobs and tax revenues. This is especially important in economically lagging areas Upstate that are not always good prospects for attracting industry.

But there's also a good reason they should come down. It's that as tourism marketing, they're just not very good signs.

Displaying a traffic engineer's knowledge of marketing, the signs simply don't sell. They show four state tourism logos for historic attractions, recreational destinations, food and drink spots, and other I-Love-New-York attractions but convey almost no other information.

ANd that shows exactly why these signs should be treated as ads on highway..

vdeane

Quote from: Jim on December 09, 2016, 09:30:19 AM
In all my Upstate NY winters, I can't recall noticing very many signs being damaged due to snowstorms.  While I suppose we can hope that some plow drivers will do their best to take some of these out, I am not holding out hope.
Not usually plow drivers, but motorists occasionally take out mile markers, reference markers, exit gore signs, and sometimes even guide signs when they skid and lose control.  We already have at least two or three downed gore signs around here, and last year I actually called the Albany County residency to report a downed milemarker and route shield.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SignBridge

Vdeane is correct and that's what I meant in my post. Drivers lose control and hit the signs. And now with so many closely spaced targets to choose from LOL, it ought to be interesting. And yes, the slip-joints at the base of the signs do work as intended causing the leg to collapse and the sign flops over like a drunken dinosaur.

Rothman

I often wonder what the freak happened to this sign:

https://goo.gl/maps/J2qDUCiMzFt

It's a little skewed in the Google View, but it got a lot worse where the supports were totally bent.

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

cl94

There are a few messed up signs in that area. I've been wondering the same thing.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

kalvado

Quote from: Rothman on December 10, 2016, 12:05:10 AM
I often wonder what the freak happened to this sign:

https://goo.gl/maps/J2qDUCiMzFt

It's a little skewed in the Google View, but it got a lot worse where the supports were totally bent.

I believe they claimed wind was the problem. If someone saved on steel railings... That is a big sign on long straight road...

jeffandnicole

Plows usually take out mailboxes!  :-D

More often than not it's an errant vehicle that'll wipe out a sign, although strong winds and heavy snow can topple one on occasion as well.



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