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Author Topic: Sports Realignment Ideas  (Read 15648 times)

The Nature Boy

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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #100 on: September 06, 2016, 10:51:46 PM »

Professional basketball usually doesn't do that well in ACC country.  Charlotte already had a team and lost it, and the second Hornets aren't the greatest draw.  Plus, the NC border is only about a half hour from Hampton Roads, so you're already losing your fan base there.  Plus, the DC fanbase is too nearby to legitimize creating a new fan base. Worked when the Squires were in a separate league from the then Bullets (plus the Bullets were relatively new to the DC area, having played in Baltimore for many years), and would've worked if they had come in with the ABA/NBA merger, but I don't see it working 40 years later.  2 other ABA markets that missed the cut, St. Louis and Louisville, could be considered, as could Pittsburgh (the latter 2 are technically ACC country, but are outliers at that).

How about Buffalo as a possible MLB market?  Could form a territorial rivalry with the NY teams, Toronto, Pittsburgh, or Cleveland.

People say this but they forget the Hornets had a 9 year long, 364 game sell out streak and that the Hornets left because George Shinn was a word that I won't say on this forum.

The NBA moved to get Charlotte a team immediately because of the potential drawing power of the team. The market is still recovering from the departure of the original Hornets and the circumstances surrounding the building of the current Time Warner Cable Arena. The original Hornets leaving had nothing to do with attendance woes.
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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #101 on: September 10, 2016, 04:18:57 AM »

The Squires only drew well when they were winning and when they had Dr. J (Julius Erving) on the team.  The team management basically mismanaged the team into oblivion--trading stars, including two Hall-of-Famers, for cash because they always seemed strapped for it.  I don't know if it was because the Scope lease was high or if they could not manage the income.  If the management had not been so "panicky", and kept these good players, they probably would have done fine.  The fans there would have come.  Of course, they would have had to build another arena because the Scope has a basketball capacity of around 10,600.  Fine for the 1970's--not so fine today.

As far as Buffalo in MLB, remember they were the second minor league franchise to draw 1 million fans for a season (1983 Louisville Redbirds were the first).  They drew over 1 million a season from 1988-91.  They would make a good rivalry with New York, Toronto, Boston, and Cleveland.
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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #102 on: November 28, 2016, 12:31:27 AM »

Okay, get this! The name of the Las Vegas NHL team has been finalized and that will be the 31st NHL team starting in 2017-18. What if there was a situation just like the NFL had in the late '90s/early 2000s where the Baltimore Ravens were declared the 31st NFL team and the 1999 return of the Cleveland Browns gave the league 31 active teams, and then the arrival of the Houston Texans in 2002 evened things out at 32, allowing for eight divisions with four teams per division. Maybe the NHL could do the same by creating a 32nd team and doing their divisions in the style of the NFL. I would place the 32nd NHL team in Quebec City. The two conferences would return to their historic names, Prince of Wales and Clarence Campbell.
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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #103 on: November 28, 2016, 05:10:36 PM »

^ I'm all for reintroducing the original conferences names.  As far as a "new" Quebec Nordiques team is concerned, we will have to see what may happen with the Carolina Hurricanes franchise.  There have been rumblings about Carolina possibly moving to Quebec.
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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #104 on: November 28, 2016, 10:27:12 PM »

^ I'm all for reintroducing the original conferences names.  As far as a "new" Quebec Nordiques team is concerned, we will have to see what may happen with the Carolina Hurricanes franchise.  There have been rumblings about Carolina possibly moving to Quebec.
I would be more than happy with keeping names that are understandable by people who aren't devoted hockey fans. The sport needs to grow.
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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #105 on: November 29, 2016, 03:36:10 AM »

With all that talk about the Raiders' move to Las Vegas, and now a new NHL franchise, don't be surprised if a MLB team is placed there, through either expansion or relocation (with the Rays and A's as potential suitors). Commissioner Rob Manfred says he's open to that idea. And with the NBA having played an All-Star Game there in 2007, as previously mentioned, having its own team would be the icing on the cake.

I would be surprised. There's no place to put a MLB team, and a stadium would take several years to build. You'll also have an issue with the extreme heat out there, which both players and fans wouldn't want to be sitting in. So you're talking about a domed stadium, and overall they don't tend to be very popular unless a team is doing very well.

... Or midnight or sunrise games! Switch to watching the Vegas team's home games after all of the California and Seattle games get over. Or watch a game before an East Coast afternoon game! Day shift people in Vegas could go to the game BEFORE work. And then there would emerge the "All Night Doubleheader".

"Yes, that's Wednesday at 0:05. We will be on our network stations for the pre-game at 11:30PM on Tuesday night"
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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #106 on: November 30, 2016, 11:00:40 AM »

I've figured out my NHL 32-team plan.

PWC East:
  • Columbus Blue Jackets
  • New York Rangers
  • Philadelphia Flyers
  • Washington Capitals

PWC North:
  • Boston Bruins
  • Montreal Canadiens
  • Quebec Nordiques
  • Toronto Maple Leafs

PWC South:
  • Carolina Hurricanes
  • Nashville Predators
  • St. Louis Blues
  • Tampa Bay Lightning

PWC West:
  • Arizona Coyotes
  • Los Angeles Kings
  • San Jose Sharks
  • Vancouver Canucks

CCC East:
  • Boston Bruins
  • New York Islanders
  • Ottawa Senators
  • Pittsburgh Penguins

CCC North:
  • Buffalo Sabres
  • Chicago Blackhawks
  • Detroit Red Wings
  • Minnesota Wild

CCC South:
  • Colorado Avalanche
  • Dallas Stars
  • Florida Panthers
  • Las Vegas Golden Knights

CCC West:
  • Anaheim Ducks
  • Calgary Flames
  • Edmonton Oilers
  • Winnipeg Jets
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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #107 on: November 30, 2016, 11:58:28 AM »

The problem with teams in smaller Canadian cities is that when the US economy gets ahead of the Canadian economy the relief valve to prevent a wholesale Canadian meltdown is to devalue the Loonie.  From par just a few years ago, the Loonie is now at just 74 cents.  And, given the expressed intentions of the current Canadian government and the incoming American one, the disparity is likely to grow to histoic proportions in the near term.  Players and most expenses are paid in US dollars, but revenue is in Canadian.  This applies to not just Quebec City, but to Winnipeg, both of which's original versions failed for just that reason.   

The big three Canadian cities are big enough to have teams that  make it regardless, but these smaller markets cannot, as was shown the last time this happened.  Adding in the loonie (no pun intended) NDP governemnt in, of all places, Alberta, and the survival of the two oil patch cities (not just the teams, the cities) is a real question.  That crew (elected becasue of a party split with just 40% of the vote) is in until 2019.
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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #108 on: December 04, 2016, 02:51:51 PM »

Don't think they'd break them up like AL and NL and mix geography in conferences.  Still think it would be Eastern and Western conferences.  Here's my 32 team breakdown (and yes, I would love to see the Whalercanes go home, but we need a new arena first).

If Quebec gets it:

Prince of Wales Conference:

Adams Division: BUF, DET, PIT, TOR
Patrick Division: NJ, NYI, NYR, PHL
Howe Division: CAR, FLA, TB, WAS
Orr Division: BOS, MON, OTT, QUE


Clarence Campbell Conference:

Norris Division: CHI, CLB, MIN, WIN
Smythe Division: COL, DAL, NAS, STL 
Gretzky Division: CAL, EDM, SJ, VAN
Hull Division: ANA, ARZ, LA, LV

If Seattle gets it:

Prince of Wales Conference:

Adams Division: BUF, CLB, DET, PIT
Patrick Division: NJ, NYI, NYR, PHL
Howe Division: CAR, FLA, TB, WAS
Orr Division: BOS, MON, OTT, TOR

Clarence Campbell Conference:

Norris Division: CHI, MIN, STL, WIN
Smythe Division: ARZ, COL, DAL, NAS 
Gretzky Division: CAL, EDM, SEA, VAN
Hull Division: ANA, LA, LV, SJ

 
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amroad17

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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #109 on: December 04, 2016, 09:07:47 PM »

^ Impressed with the divisional names--mixing the old with the new!

At least we will more than likely never see a division with both Montreal and Los Angeles in one (Norris, 1974-79) or with both California and Boston in one (Adams 1974-76). :spin:  And the NHL wondered why teams floundered!  Besides, who in the blue hell came up with the way these divisions were set up starting in 1974?  Odd as anything the NFL always seemed to come up with until 2002--and even now the NFL divisions are not quite the way it should be.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #110 on: December 04, 2016, 09:54:39 PM »

Realign Division 1 NCAA Football into Five Conferences with Sixteen teams each.  Each conference would have two divisions that would meet head-to-head in the conference championship game, the winner gets an automatic bid in an 8 team playoff.  There could be three at-large wild card teams from the rest of the draw.  Relegate lesser conferences down to Division Two since they rarely bring anything relevant.  Basically the real trick would be figuring out who would belong in D1 who isn't in a major conference.  Some schools like Boise State, Notre Dame, BYU, and Army come to mind immediately.  Personally I'd like to see schools with a decent of history of winning bumped up followed by rounding geography.

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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #111 on: December 04, 2016, 11:44:47 PM »

Realign Division 1 NCAA Football into Five Conferences with Sixteen teams each.  Each conference would have two divisions that would meet head-to-head in the conference championship game, the winner gets an automatic bid in an 8 team playoff.  There could be three at-large wild card teams from the rest of the draw.  Relegate lesser conferences down to Division Two since they rarely bring anything relevant.  Basically the real trick would be figuring out who would belong in D1 who isn't in a major conference.  Some schools like Boise State, Notre Dame, BYU, and Army come to mind immediately.  Personally I'd like to see schools with a decent of history of winning bumped up followed by rounding geography.


I'm OK with the current setup. 8 teams, five conference champions, plus the top ranked "Group of Five" team, plus any remaining undefeated teams after you do that (which would basically be another Group of Fiver or an independent). Any spots left go to the remaining top ranked teams. Under this scenario, your automatic 6 bids would go to Alabama, Clemson, Washington, Sandusky State, Oklahoma, and Western Michigan. Since there are no remaining undefeated teams, you go to the two highest remaining: Ohio (3) and Michigan (6). Seeding would go by ranking:
* Alabama vs. WMU
* Clemson vs. Oklahoma
* Ohio vs. Michigan (yes, a rematch)
* Washington vs. Sandusky State
I'm willing to bet that Michigan would have been moved up to 5 under this scenario to avoid such an immediate big 10 rematch. Alternatively, they could have been dropped below Oklahoma to keep Big Ten teams from facing each other in the first round.

Easy to do. You have six major bowls now. Four of them host the quarterfinals, two the semis. Rotate the semis on a triennial basis.
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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #112 on: December 05, 2016, 12:03:15 AM »

So, am I surmising that your Five Conferences will be the ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, and Pac-12?  If this is so, each conference is going to have to add anywhere between 2-6 teams to make it 16 in each.

What would be the "next tier"?  Probably these, since they are also in the Football Bowl Subdivision...
     - American Athletic
     - MAC
     - Conference USA
     - Mountain West
     - Sun Belt

We could call these the "five conferences"!  :D

Seriously, in this scenario, the champions of the Five Conferences (Power 5) would ensure automatic berths.  Should the champions from three of the other five conferences (depending on how "strong" the conference is) receive the other berths or will a committee rely on what they see and pick three other teams from the Power 5?  If this would be the case, then these other five conferences should have a Subdivision of their own and determine a champion in the same way as the Power 5.  In fact, we could have a Power 5 Subdivision and an Group of 5 Subdivision or it could be called the Electric 5 Subdivision.

Personally, if there were an 8-team playoff this year, these are the teams I would like to see (with seedings)...

    - #1 Alabama vs. #8 Western Michigan
    - #4 Washington vs. #5 Penn State
    - #3 Ohio State vs. #6 Oklahoma
    - #2 Clemson vs. #7 Michigan

I placed Oklahoma above Michigan because they would be considered the defacto Big 12 Champion.  I placed Western Michigan at #8 because they won their conference championship and are undefeated.  I believe any undefeated and conference champion team from a non-Power 5 conference should be included in an 8-team playoff.  Maybe not a 4-team playoff, but definitely an 8-team playoff.  Also, two teams from the same conference would not meet in these quarterfinal games.

Overall, I would not mind having the FBS become two Subdivisions.  It would be extremely rare, under the current format, to have a team from the Group of 5 be selected for one of the four spots to determine a national champion.  The only team in the last ten years that I could have seen selected was Boise State from the Mountain West (ask Oklahoma).

I have an idea on what I would like to see if the FBS splits and there are 8-team playoffs...

As far as bowl games in the Power 5, four of the New Year's Six could be used as quarterfinal matchups (except the Rose Bowl--keep that a Pac-12/Big Ten tradition, the two losers of each conference championship game would meet there).  There would be then two cities to hold the National Semifinal games and then a city to hold the National Championship Game.

The Citrus and the Outback Bowls would still be on New Year's Day (or as close to it if is not a Sunday).  These two bowls would host teams that would be ranked anywhere between 9-14, based on which teams would go to the Rose Bowl if they are ranked in this area.

As far as bowl games for the Group of 5, the Las Vegas, Independence, Holiday, and the Liberty Bowl games could be played around Dec 16-19 as quarterfinal games, the Sun and TaxSlayer (Gator) Bowls could be used as semifinal games on Christmas Eve or a day or two after Christmas, and the fifth bowl of the New Year's Six not chosen for any of the Power 5 quarterfinal games would host the Group of 5 Championship Game.

Doing this would bring a renewed relevance to some of these older bowl games.  Also, by staggering the playing of each Subdivisions' playoff, fans would have an interest in who wins each Subdivision's National Championship.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #113 on: December 05, 2016, 12:15:00 AM »

Realign Division 1 NCAA Football into Five Conferences with Sixteen teams each.  Each conference would have two divisions that would meet head-to-head in the conference championship game, the winner gets an automatic bid in an 8 team playoff.  There could be three at-large wild card teams from the rest of the draw.  Relegate lesser conferences down to Division Two since they rarely bring anything relevant.  Basically the real trick would be figuring out who would belong in D1 who isn't in a major conference.  Some schools like Boise State, Notre Dame, BYU, and Army come to mind immediately.  Personally I'd like to see schools with a decent of history of winning bumped up followed by rounding geography.


I'm OK with the current setup. 8 teams, five conference champions, plus the top ranked "Group of Five" team, plus any remaining undefeated teams after you do that (which would basically be another Group of Fiver or an independent). Any spots left go to the remaining top ranked teams. Under this scenario, your automatic 6 bids would go to Alabama, Clemson, Washington, Sandusky State, Oklahoma, and Western Michigan. Since there are no remaining undefeated teams, you go to the two highest remaining: Ohio (3) and Michigan (6). Seeding would go by ranking:
* Alabama vs. WMU
* Clemson vs. Oklahoma
* Ohio vs. Michigan (yes, a rematch)
* Washington vs. Sandusky State
I'm willing to bet that Michigan would have been moved up to 5 under this scenario to avoid such an immediate big 10 rematch. Alternatively, they could have been dropped below Oklahoma to keep Big Ten teams from facing each other in the first round.

Easy to do. You have six major bowls now. Four of them host the quarterfinals, two the semis. Rotate the semis on a triennial basis.

What I had in mind was wrapped around five major regional conferences:

-  Mid-West Conference
-  Atlantic Conference
-  Southern Conference
-  Mountain/Plains Conference
-  Western Conference

Basically this would be kind of the gist of 80 team D1:

Mid-West Conference

1.  Michigan
2.  Indiana
3.  Michigan State
4.  Ohio State
5.  Penn State
6.  Illinois
7.  Minnesota
8.  Iowa
9.  Minnesota
10.  Northwestern
11.  Purdue
12.  Wisconsin
13.  Notre Dame
14.  Iowa State
15.  Penn
16.  Missouri

Atlantic Conference

1.  Maryland
2.  Rutgers
3.  Boston College
4.  Duke
5.  North Carolina
6.  Syracuse
7.  Virginia
8.  West Virginia
9.  Virginia Tech
10.  Wake Forest
11.  Clemson
12.  South Carolina
13.  Navy
14.  Connecticut
15.  Army
16.  East Carolina


Mountain/Plains Conference

1.  Nebraska
2.  Texas A&M
3.  Baylor
4.  Kansas
5.  Kansas State
6.  Oklahoma
7.  Oklahoma State
8.  Texas
9.  TCU
10.  Texas Tech
11.  Colorado
12.  Boise State
13.  Air Force
14.  Wyoming
15.  Houston
16.  New Mexico

Southern Conference

1.  Louisville
2.  Miami
3.  Georgia Tech
4.  Florida State
5.  Kentucky
6.  Vanderbilt
7.  Arkansas
8.  Ole Miss
9.  Miss State
10.  Alabama
11.  Auburn
12.  LSU
13.  Florida
14.  Tennessee
15.  Central Florida
16.  Memphis

Western Conference

1.  Arizona
2.  Arizona State
3.  UNLV
4.  Utah
5.  BYU
6.  Cal
7.  UCLA
8.  Oregon
9.  Oregon State
10.  USC
11.  Stanford
12.  Washington
13.  Washington State
14.  Hawaii
15.  San Diego State
16.  Fresno State

Granted I might rotate some of those lesser (or screwed something else up since I literally whipped that up in 10 minutes and I've noticed some errors already) schools out but the ones I picked seemed to be reasonably competitive, have a geographic area, or some decent past history.  I wanted to keep the three service academies in since they Air Force and Navy have been reasonably competitive.  That's a quick write up so I'm not sure if I missed anyone too important that should stay.  If college is going to act like a professional sport then it ought to be structured like one.  8 out 80 teams making a play is still only 10% which I fail to see how is a water downed product.  Saying teams like Western Michigan can compete with the national top 10 or the great majority of the others before hand prior to the previous ten years was kind of a joke.  Regardless the current system has it so the lesser conferences stand no chance at competing for a title...so why are on the big stage at all to begin with?

Basically I see the conferences broken up into twin 8 team divisions which would play a round robin of 7 games with 2 additional on the other side of the conference.  Each team would play 3 non-conference games and there would be a 6/6 split for home and away.  Basically this would give everyone in the field a fighting chance in what would be a season long play-off.  Even though there would be 3 wild-cards it would put a huge emphasis on winning your conference championship game at the end of the season. 

So, am I surmising that your Five Conferences will be the ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, and Pac-12?  If this is so, each conference is going to have to add anywhere between 2-6 teams to make it 16 in each.

What would be the "next tier"?  Probably these, since they are also in the Football Bowl Subdivision...
     - American Athletic
     - MAC
     - Conference USA
     - Mountain West
     - Sun Belt

We could call these the "five conferences"!  :D


Essentially yes, in addition to cannibalizing the best out of the conferences and independents that are left.  I'd say dissolve the major conferences completely as far as football goes and have everything run through the NCAA.  If things get too big with more major schools split it into 8 twelve team conferences and expand the play-off field to twelve like the NFL.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 12:25:29 AM by Max Rockatansky »
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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #115 on: December 06, 2016, 11:31:25 PM »

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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #116 on: December 07, 2016, 12:14:22 AM »

15.  Penn

Ivy props.  Nice

Too bad I meant Pitt, hence the disclaimer I threw out there about accuracy being spotty on the quickly cobbled conferences.
you need another disclaimer about how we should stop bringing up your ex, she has nothing to do with this.
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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #117 on: December 07, 2016, 12:40:14 AM »

15.  Penn

Ivy props.  Nice

Too bad I meant Pitt, hence the disclaimer I threw out there about accuracy being spotty on the quickly cobbled conferences.
you need another disclaimer about how we should stop bringing up your ex, she has nothing to do with this.

It would seem that would only lead to a nonsensical post where the full name is given along with what exit on the freeway they can be found at.  That would be followed by a declaration that "this discussion is over" and perhaps some banter about which maps are best or perhaps even Disney.

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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #118 on: March 20, 2017, 12:58:16 PM »

The reason why you won't see it in baseball is A. The affiliation of minor league teams with big league teams, and B. stadium size.  Most AAA stadiums hold about 9000 people, where the average major league stadium holds about 40-45,000.  I love the idea of a team like Pawtucket possibly being promoted to the majors, while a team like the Rockies gets relegated to AAA.  It would really make a team think twice about tanking to rebuild; this would really work in the NBA (I'm looking at you Sixers, Lakers, and Nets)
Yes, I like the idea of applying this to the NBA, where the good teams would play in one division, and the bad ones in the other. So given the current standings, with two divisions per conference, this is how the setup would go (8 playoff teams in Division A, 7 non-playoff teams in Division B):

EASTERN CONFERENCE
DIVISION A
Cleveland
Toronto
Atlanta
Boston
Miami
Charlotte
Detroit
Indiana

DIVISION B
Chicago
Washington
Orlando
Milwaukee
New York
Brooklyn
Philadelphia
VIRGINIA (revival of the 1967 Squires)
WESTERN CONFERENCE
DIVISION A
Golden State
San Antonio
Oklahoma City
L.A. Clippers
Memphis
Portland
Houston
Utah

DIVISION B
Dallas
Denver
Sacramento
New Orleans
Minnesota
Phoenix
L.A. Lakers
SEATTLE (my edit: the new Supersonics)

Seattle tries hard to bring the NBA back and Virginia Beach's attempt to be a major league sports city could pay off. Considering the Supersonics were generally successful before their relocation to Oklahoma (City) in 2008. And Virginia's Hampton Roads area is it's own metropolis apart from Northern VA-Washington DC-Baltimore-Delaware and the Carolinas (Raleigh-Charlotte-Columbia SC+Charleston SC).
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Get your kicks...on Route 99! Like to turn 66 upside down. The other historic Main street of America.

texaskdog

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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #119 on: March 21, 2017, 12:06:00 PM »

Okay, get this! The name of the Las Vegas NHL team has been finalized and that will be the 31st NHL team starting in 2017-18. What if there was a situation just like the NFL had in the late '90s/early 2000s where the Baltimore Ravens were declared the 31st NFL team and the 1999 return of the Cleveland Browns gave the league 31 active teams, and then the arrival of the Houston Texans in 2002 evened things out at 32, allowing for eight divisions with four teams per division. Maybe the NHL could do the same by creating a 32nd team and doing their divisions in the style of the NFL. I would place the 32nd NHL team in Quebec City. The two conferences would return to their historic names, Prince of Wales and Clarence Campbell.


No, the Ravens were the 30th team and the Browns were the 31st
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dvferyance

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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #120 on: March 22, 2017, 06:26:36 PM »

Don't think they'd break them up like AL and NL and mix geography in conferences.  Still think it would be Eastern and Western conferences.  Here's my 32 team breakdown (and yes, I would love to see the Whalercanes go home, but we need a new arena first).

If Quebec gets it:

Prince of Wales Conference:

Adams Division: BUF, DET, PIT, TOR
Patrick Division: NJ, NYI, NYR, PHL
Howe Division: CAR, FLA, TB, WAS
Orr Division: BOS, MON, OTT, QUE


Clarence Campbell Conference:

Norris Division: CHI, CLB, MIN, WIN
Smythe Division: COL, DAL, NAS, STL 
Gretzky Division: CAL, EDM, SJ, VAN
Hull Division: ANA, ARZ, LA, LV

If Seattle gets it:

Prince of Wales Conference:

Adams Division: BUF, CLB, DET, PIT
Patrick Division: NJ, NYI, NYR, PHL
Howe Division: CAR, FLA, TB, WAS
Orr Division: BOS, MON, OTT, TOR

Clarence Campbell Conference:

Norris Division: CHI, MIN, STL, WIN
Smythe Division: ARZ, COL, DAL, NAS 
Gretzky Division: CAL, EDM, SEA, VAN
Hull Division: ANA, LA, LV, SJ

 
Prince of Wales? Clarence Campbell? What's that all about? Usually divisions are named after geographic locations.
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Big John

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Re: Sports Realignment Ideas
« Reply #121 on: March 22, 2017, 06:37:56 PM »

^^ The NHL used to have those as conference names and the divisions were also named Norris, Smythe, Adams and Patrick
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