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Author Topic: NFL 2026 (what if)  (Read 6335 times)

Desert Man

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NFL 2026 (what if)
« on: February 14, 2017, 08:51:29 PM »

Here's what my National Football League would look like in 10 years (2026-27 season) - but I feel a new competitor league: the World Football League (2020-26) merges with the NFL. The expansion includes Toronto (Canada) and Mexico (City), although Hawaii and London (UK) are good choices, but I chose the two more feasible team sites.:
AFC EAST:
Baltimore, Buffalo, New England, NY Jets, Pittsburgh.
AFC SOUTH:
Birmingham, Houston, Jacksonville, Miami, Tennessee.
AFC NORTH:
Cincinnati, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Oklahoma (City).
AFC WEST:
Denver, Las Vegas, LA Chargers, new Oakland team, new San Diego team.
NFC EAST:
Dallas, NY Giants, Philadelphia, Toronto, Washington.
NFC SOUTH:
Atlanta, Carolina, New Orleans, San Antonio, Tampa Bay.
NFC NORTH:
Chicago, Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, new St. Louis team.
NFC WEST:
Arizona, LA Rams, Mexico (City), San Francisco, Seattle.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 11:36:36 AM by Desert Man »
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2017, 10:07:37 AM »

That's quite ambitious! And of course, the one thing stopping London from ever getting a team is the logistics issue.
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2017, 11:11:39 AM »

If there was ever to be an international NFL team, I think it would be in Mexico City. London is just too far to play NFL games besides once a year.
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Desert Man

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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2017, 11:40:22 AM »

I edited out London and replaced it with Mexico, the visitors going to Europe and back will have jet lag, despite the NFL's typical weekly game schedule.

For the new NFL members, either they need new league-standard systems or renovate older ones they play in.

The new teams' nicknames are:
Birmingham Bulldogs, Hawaii Sharks, Mexico Aztecos, Oakland Vandals, Oklahoma Coyotes, St. Louis Wolfpack, San Antonio Toros (or Outlaws), San Diego Bombers and Toronto North stars.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 11:46:41 AM by Desert Man »
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2017, 01:10:58 PM »

I don't think an NFL team in Toronto will ever happen either since Canada already has the CFL.
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2017, 02:51:18 PM »

I don't think an NFL team in Toronto will ever happen either since Canada already has the CFL.

Sacramento had a CFL team for a year or two!
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 03:37:43 PM »

the one thing stopping London from ever getting a team is the logistics issue.
The NFL has tested various London scenarios - including playing the next week back in the states, rather than bye-week. All seem to have worked well enough.

The easiest way to have an NFL team in London is that every team playing them away gets the bye-week afterwards and London plays all 8 of its home games back-to-back weeks in weeks 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12, with 4 games in the US before, and a bye-week followed by 4 games in the US after.

The difficulty comes in the play-offs as no bye-weeks are available for winning sides in London games. I'd suggest timing it so Wild Card and Divisional Round games in London are always on Saturdays, with the winner playing the following Sunday to give 8 days difference, rather than a possible 6.

The logistics really isn't an issue - nor is, arguably, filling the stadium for 8 games. Ticket prices are high and sell out very quickly. The issue is the support for a team. There's plenty of support for watching NFL games (whatever the teams) live in Europe - the problem lies with changing the atmosphere from being a Superbowl-esque event where the fans support all 32 teams and there's not much of a home field vibe for the home team (even 'our Jaguars') to one where there's a specific team the fans are meant to cheer on.

The problem is not logistics - the problem is the team getting support rather than the sport, and the transition from special promotional event to regular game: for both the teams and the fans.
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 03:49:30 PM »

the one thing stopping London from ever getting a team is the logistics issue.
The NFL has tested various London scenarios - including playing the next week back in the states, rather than bye-week. All seem to have worked well enough.

The easiest way to have an NFL team in London is that every team playing them away gets the bye-week afterwards and London plays all 8 of its home games back-to-back weeks in weeks 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12, with 4 games in the US before, and a bye-week followed by 4 games in the US after.

To me, that's a huge logistical issue.  Having to be on the road 4 weeks to start the season...and 4 weeks to end the season?  Very difficult.  Where does the team stay and practice in the meantime?  Do the players have to live in a hotel...or several hotels, for a month?  Do they have a home-away-from-home location? 

Quote
The difficulty comes in the play-offs as no bye-weeks are available for winning sides in London games. I'd suggest timing it so Wild Card and Divisional Round games in London are always on Saturdays, with the winner playing the following Sunday to give 8 days difference, rather than a possible 6.

What if the winning team in the Wild Card, playing in the US on a Sunday, then has to travel to London to play the Divisional game on Saturday?  They still only have 6 days to prepare.
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2017, 03:59:54 PM »

I don't think an NFL team in Toronto will ever happen either since Canada already has the CFL.

Canada used to forbid it but Toronto is one of the CFL's worst draws anyway.
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2017, 04:04:22 PM »

Divvy up the pie 32 ways and then to ask to add more owners eating that revenue pie will make expansion difficult, so my way out of it is to have NFL Spring League.  16 teams, each co-owned by a pair of AFC/NFC teams, stocked with players and coaches from both organizations.  That way the share for each owner stays at 1/32 but the value of that portion increases, which in turn gives the owners the desire to expand in this particular fashion.

Now which 16 cities get the NFL Spring League teams?  That is the real interesting part to mull over!

Rick
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2017, 05:03:23 PM »

To me, that's a huge logistical issue.  Having to be on the road 4 weeks to start the season...and 4 weeks to end the season?  Very difficult.  Where does the team stay and practice in the meantime?  Do the players have to live in a hotel...or several hotels, for a month?  Do they have a home-away-from-home location?
Yes, it's not easy, but it's far more easily overcomeable than the other issues I highlighted.

A home-away-from-home training ground seems sensible and easy enough to implement. It is what soccer players do for international tournaments. I think Cricketers tend to flit about when on tour, rather than have a base city and return to that between matches. Those teams touring England (where distances are far smaller) might set up base somewhere.
Quote
What if the winning team in the Wild Card, playing in the US on a Sunday, then has to travel to London to play the Divisional game on Saturday?  They still only have 6 days to prepare.
You'd surely set it up to be that if London is involved, teams potentially playing them play Saturday. But the problem has been found to be more the other direction.

I don't want a team in London - having the variety of teams coming over for just one game every few years (save the Jags) is better for everyone. My point is that the logistics issues are overcomeable, whereas the support for a team issue is not. It wouldn't be September and December away touring the US that is the killer issue for the players, it's that the London team's home games would be lucky if the home team fans are twice as big as the biggest of the other 31 teams' supporters watching the game in the stadium!

London could probably support 8 games (though having two games/season somewhere else nearish to London - Dublin, Amsterdam, Cologne, Glasgow, Paris would be better for reach if you are having 8 games/season in Europe) but it will not be able to support a team. The status quo, give or take a few tweaks, is the right solution.
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DTComposer

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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2017, 05:30:50 PM »

AFC EAST:
Baltimore, Buffalo, New England, NY Jets, Pittsburgh.
AFC SOUTH:
Birmingham, Houston, Jacksonville, Miami, Tennessee.
AFC NORTH:
Cincinnati, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Oklahoma (City).
AFC WEST:
Denver, Las Vegas, LA Chargers, new Oakland team, new San Diego team.
NFC EAST:
Dallas, NY Giants, Philadelphia, Toronto, Washington.
NFC SOUTH:
Atlanta, Carolina, New Orleans, San Antonio, Tampa Bay.
NFC NORTH:
Chicago, Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, new St. Louis team.
NFC WEST:
Arizona, LA Rams, Mexico (City), San Francisco, Seattle.

Couple of thoughts:

-First of all, adding eight teams in ten years is totally unrealistic. Two teams, perhaps, four teams, unlikely.

-I don't see Birmingham as a viable market - it's already among the smallest markets (Buffalo, Jacksonville, New Orleans, (proposed) Oklahoma City) - but Jacksonville/New Orleans/Oklahoma City all have five-year growth rates over 6%, while Birmingham is at 1.5%. Also, I don't know the region, but what would be the corporate support for luxury boxes and PSLs?

-Even switching London for Mexico City - you put them in the West, so they're still going to rack up a lot of flight miles. Why wouldn't they be in the South?

-It seems that Raiders fans are Raiders fans first and Oakland fans second, meaning a new team in Oakland isn't going to gain a lot of support unless they bring over the Raiders name/history/etc. like Cleveland did (meaning Las Vegas gets an all-new identity), and you'd have to pry that out of Mark Davis' cold, dead hands.

Other markets to consider:
Sacramento, Portland, Salt Lake City, Columbus, Raleigh, Orlando - while a couple of these are perhaps too close to existing NFL markets, they all are in the top 35 TV markets AND all have five-year growth rates over 5%.
(I didn't put Austin as I don't think both they and San Antonio would get teams, and San Antonio seems like a better fit)

So how about this, and let's say 2042 (25 years out, although eight new teams is still unlikely):
AFC EAST:
Baltimore, Buffalo, New England, NY Jets, Pittsburgh
AFC SOUTH:
Mexico City, Houston, Jacksonville, Miami, Raleigh or Orlando
AFC NORTH:
Cincinnati, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Tennessee, Oklahoma City
AFC WEST:
Denver, Las Vegas, LA Chargers, Kansas City, San Diego

NFC EAST:
Dallas, NY Giants, Philadelphia, Toronto, Washington
NFC SOUTH:
Atlanta, Carolina, New Orleans, San Antonio, Tampa Bay
NFC NORTH:
Chicago, Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, St. Louis
NFC WEST:
Arizona, LA Rams, Salt Lake City or Portland, San Francisco, Seattle
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2017, 07:13:17 PM »

Portland OR blew their chance back in 1965 when voters turned down the Delta Dome project.  Today the one major stadium (and I'm being generous) is a former baseball park that is now used by the MLS Timbers team.  It only seats about 20k.  Given how a new stadium costs $2 billion these days, we're more likely to get a thoroughly modernized I-5 and CRC bridge than we are a real nice retractable roof stadium seating 65K or so.

Rick
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2017, 07:22:01 PM »

Divvy up the pie 32 ways and then to ask to add more owners eating that revenue pie will make expansion difficult, so my way out of it is to have NFL Spring League.  16 teams, each co-owned by a pair of AFC/NFC teams, stocked with players and coaches from both organizations.  That way the share for each owner stays at 1/32 but the value of that portion increases, which in turn gives the owners the desire to expand in this particular fashion.

Now which 16 cities get the NFL Spring League teams?  That is the real interesting part to mull over!

Rick

and one from each conference so there is not a huge level of competition

e.g.  San Francisco/Oakland.  San Diego/LA.  Houston/Dallas.  Denver/Arizona etc

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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2017, 11:21:46 PM »

Divvy up the pie 32 ways and then to ask to add more owners eating that revenue pie will make expansion difficult, so my way out of it is to have NFL Spring League.  16 teams, each co-owned by a pair of AFC/NFC teams, stocked with players and coaches from both organizations.  That way the share for each owner stays at 1/32 but the value of that portion increases, which in turn gives the owners the desire to expand in this particular fashion.

Now which 16 cities get the NFL Spring League teams?  That is the real interesting part to mull over!

Rick

and one from each conference so there is not a huge level of competition

e.g.  San Francisco/Oakland.  San Diego/LA.  Houston/Dallas.  Denver/Arizona etc



That is what I said.

Rick
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2017, 09:59:19 AM »

I don't see Oakland, St. Louis or San Diego getting new teams again because of the way their previous teams left.

(Well, I know that the Raiders haven't officially left, but their flirtation with Vegas and Oakland's refusal to publicly finance a new stadium give me reason to believe that they're already gone.)
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2017, 09:24:13 AM »

The one thing that could perhaps make the London logistics less of an issue is any of the supersonic business jet proposals come to fruition in the next few years. Most of the proposals involve aircraft that could seat 35 to 50 people. Of course that means you'd need two of them for an NFL team to make the trip, but speaking from experience, flying transatlantic in under three and a half hours makes a massive difference (not to mention the "arrive before you leave" aspect on the westbound flight if the plane is fast enough).

Regarding Toronto, wasn't there proposed legislation in Parliament to protect the Argonauts that was never enacted but was enough of a great to cause the WFL team to relocate to Memphis prior to playing any games? I wonder of that sort of thing would happen again. Obviously they had no issue with the Bills playing one game a year (usually after the Grey Cup was over, IIRC), and obviously they didn't object to the Montreal Machine (but again, the WLAF season didn't overlap the CFL season, and at the time Montreal had no CFL team anyway), but both of those did have distinguishing facts.
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2017, 10:27:31 PM »

I don't see Oakland, St. Louis or San Diego getting new teams again because of the way their previous teams left.

(Well, I know that the Raiders haven't officially left, but their flirtation with Vegas and Oakland's refusal to publicly finance a new stadium give me reason to believe that they're already gone.)
I could see St Louis by 2025. Kroneke left just becasue he wanted to go to LA and they didn't really need a new stadium becasue the one they had was just barely 20 years old. When the Rams were good St Louis did support them. But I do agree the NFL is done for good in San Diego. I am not too sure LA will still have 2 teams by then either. I could see at least one gone by then. I think St Louis fits much better in the NFC north with Chicago, Detroit, Green Bay and Minnesota then when they had the Rams in the west. If not St Louis I think the NFL should take a good look at Milwaukee. I really would be just fine with a team in London so that way one or two teams aren't robbed of a home game each year.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 10:29:38 PM by dvferyance »
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2017, 10:53:43 PM »

The NFL will never expand to Milwaukee and have no need to do so. The Packers are unquestionably 110% Milwaukee's team.
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2017, 11:02:36 PM »

The NFL will never expand to Milwaukee and have no need to do so. The Packers are unquestionably 110% Milwaukee's team.

Yep. An NFL team would fail miserably in Milwaukee. Most of Milwaukee roots for the Packers and Chicago and Green Bay.  And where in Milwaukee would this team play?
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2017, 05:41:06 PM »

The NFL will never expand to Milwaukee and have no need to do so. The Packers are unquestionably 110% Milwaukee's team.

Yep. An NFL team would fail miserably in Milwaukee. Most of Milwaukee roots for the Packers and Chicago and Green Bay.  And where in Milwaukee would this team play?
We would have to build a new stadium but that's the case with any NFL expansion team. If the Packers are Milwaukee's team then why does San Diego need a team when LA is about the same distance from SD as is GB from Milwaukee? I don't get it. I think the NFL could work in Milwaukee while many football fans may cheer for the Packers it's not like they can always go to the games like we can with the Brewers. And think about how exciting a Milwaukee Green Bay rival would be. As a Colts fan living in SE Wisconsin and no interest to support either Chicago or Green Bay I would proudly support a Milwaukee based NFL team.
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2017, 06:06:47 PM »

The NFL will never expand to Milwaukee and have no need to do so. The Packers are unquestionably 110% Milwaukee's team.

Yep. An NFL team would fail miserably in Milwaukee. Most of Milwaukee roots for the Packers and Chicago and Green Bay.  And where in Milwaukee would this team play?
We would have to build a new stadium but that's the case with any NFL expansion team. If the Packers are Milwaukee's team then why does San Diego need a team when LA is about the same distance from SD as is GB from Milwaukee? I don't get it. I think the NFL could work in Milwaukee while many football fans may cheer for the Packers it's not like they can always go to the games like we can with the Brewers. And think about how exciting a Milwaukee Green Bay rival would be. As a Colts fan living in SE Wisconsin and no interest to support either Chicago or Green Bay I would proudly support a Milwaukee based NFL team.

I don't understand how you can live in Milwaukee and not understand that the Packers are just as much Milwaukee's team as they are Green Bay's, and that the fans there would not want another team. There are a lot of historical ties between the Packers and Milwaukee, between playing regular season games there for 60 years and their Milwaukee-based radio flagship station. Milwaukee is also a Packers primary TV market; they are the only team to have two primary TV markets. Milwaukee Packer fans have priority on tickets for two games at Lambeau every season, so the team certainly has not forgotten about the city either since they discontinued playing games in Milwaukee in the mid-90s.

Milwaukee is a Packers-rabid city, today and for the rest of eternity.
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2017, 08:20:47 PM »

Really, anything north of the Cheddar Curtain is Packer Country. A new NFL team in Milwaukee would never happen nor be necessary, and on the off chance that one did, they'd never have a fan base outside of Bears fans when they face the Packers.
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2017, 09:21:50 AM »

Cheddar Curtain
And this is why American cheese has a bad rep. It's a Gorge, not a Curtain.
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Re: NFL 2026 (what if)
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2017, 01:37:13 PM »

Cheddar Curtain
And this is why American cheese has a bad rep. It's a Gorge, not a Curtain.

Sorry, Cheddar became an American citizen in 1866.
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