What's your personal choice/recommendation for a starting vechicle?

[jakeroot]

Volvo 240. Best car ever made.

One problem, they might be the most hideous looking cars ever made:

The Mitsuoka Orochi says hi.

Has a literal barracuda thing going on there with the front facisa. 

[Max Rockatansky]

Volvo 240. Best car ever made.

One problem, they might be the most hideous looking cars ever made:

The Mitsuoka Orochi says hi.

Has a literal barracuda thing going on there with the front facisa. 

Funny thing about the Aztec, I seem to recall people actually really like the Redevous which was on the same platform.  Interesting how a lack of garish styling can really help sell a car.

[jakeroot]

Volvo 240. Best car ever made.

One problem, they might be the most hideous looking cars ever made:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/1988-1991_Volvo_240_GL_station_wagon_%282011-06-15%29_02.jpg/1280px-1988-1991_Volvo_240_GL_station_wagon_%282011-06-15%29_02.jpg

The Mitsuoka Orochi says hi.

http://car-moby.jp/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/5a300273efcfdb154c813c420cbb8075.jpg

Has a literal barracuda thing going on there with the front facisa. 

https://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/pontiac/aztek/2001/oem/2001_pontiac_aztek_4dr-suv_gt_fq_oem_2_500.jpg

Funny thing about the Aztec, I seem to recall people actually really like the Redevous which was on the same platform.  Interesting how a lack of garish styling can really help sell a car.

I think the Rendezvous looked better, because it was less outlandish, but IMO it still had awkward rear proportions.

However, I think the Aztec is now more valuable than the Rendezvous, thanks to a certain show...

[1995hoo]

Volvo 240. Best car ever made.

One problem, they might be the most hideous looking cars ever made:

Heh. You're prompting me to remember the City of Falls Church's Volvo police cars from the 1980s. I believe they got a special deal via Don Beyer Volvo, which is located within the city. cpzilliacus probably remembers these too.

[jwolfer]

Volvo 240. Best car ever made.

One problem, they might be the most hideous looking cars ever made:

I like the 240s. I had an 1986 maroon 240 My ex-wife had a 1983 240D.. diesel. That car took forever to pick up speed.

Very roomy car. A tank. The most memorable thing was the alert for key left in ignition. It was like a nuclear plant meltdown warning.

For a long time Volvo 240s seemed to be on every tv show

Z981

[nexus73]

Ford: Panther platforms before 1997 or after 2002 to avoid the plastic intake manifold are superior vehicles in terms of durability.  Used as cop cars, then pressed into taxi service, they'll hit for 500K miles plus.  Find a grandma-grade Crown Vic, Grand Marquis or Town Car and away you go!  Stay away from police/taxi vehicles. 

GM: Buick LeSabre/Park Avenue, Olds 88/98. Pontiac Bonneville with 3.8 V-6.  Avoid the supercharged models.  If the ride is too wallowy, the struts will need replacing.  That's a $600 job in my area.  Check the tranny fluid as they are light duty units. 

Good old fashioned Detroit Iron sedans offer the best bang for the buck when going el cheapo.  Despite the larger size, you can get 28 MPG highway out of a 4.6 and 30 out of a 3.8, so they're very close to the older compacts.  You would need a hybrid to do substantially better and that is way out of your price range.

Rick

[Max Rockatansky]

Ford: Panther platforms before 1997 or after 2002 to avoid the plastic intake manifold are superior vehicles in terms of durability.  Used as cop cars, then pressed into taxi service, they'll hit for 500K miles plus.  Find a grandma-grade Crown Vic, Grand Marquis or Town Car and away you go!  Stay away from police/taxi vehicles. 

The B Body Caprices and Impalas seem to be hanging around almost just as long.  The Impalas command decent money given that they are a hot mid-90s full size car but the Caprice can be had on the cheap.  The 4.3 V6, 5.0 LO3, and 5.7 L05 all have really good parts availability given how many vehicles they were in.  If you're really lucky you might be able to find a Caprice Wagon. 

[nexus73]

Ford: Panther platforms before 1997 or after 2002 to avoid the plastic intake manifold are superior vehicles in terms of durability.  Used as cop cars, then pressed into taxi service, they'll hit for 500K miles plus.  Find a grandma-grade Crown Vic, Grand Marquis or Town Car and away you go!  Stay away from police/taxi vehicles. 

The B Body Caprices and Impalas seem to be hanging around almost just as long.  The Impalas command decent money given that they are a hot mid-90s full size car but the Caprice can be had on the cheap.  The 4.3 V6, 5.0 LO3, and 5.7 L05 all have really good parts availability given how many vehicles they were in.  If you're really lucky you might be able to find a Caprice Wagon. 

The last year of production for these was 1996.  That makes the newest ones 22 years old.  Pickings will be slim.  Models include the Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser station wagon, Buick Roadmaster sedan and wagon, Cadillac Fleetwood and the already mentioned Chevys.  The LT1 engine is available and fairly common but the ignition coils are one per cylinder and rather pricey to replace, so one trades a high maintenance expense for a 265 HP engine.  The LO5 is one I had in my 1991 Cadillac Brougham.  It never did better than 24 MPG but at least it took 10% ethanol gasoline without complaint.

Rick

[Throckmorton]

One problem, they might be the most hideous looking cars ever made:

May the ghost of Jan Wilsgaard haunt your dreams.      
   
   

[Takumi]

Ford: Panther platforms before 1997 or after 2002 to avoid the plastic intake manifold are superior vehicles in terms of durability.  Used as cop cars, then pressed into taxi service, they'll hit for 500K miles plus.  Find a grandma-grade Crown Vic, Grand Marquis or Town Car and away you go!  Stay away from police/taxi vehicles. 

The B Body Caprices and Impalas seem to be hanging around almost just as long.  The Impalas command decent money given that they are a hot mid-90s full size car but the Caprice can be had on the cheap.  The 4.3 V6, 5.0 LO3, and 5.7 L05 all have really good parts availability given how many vehicles they were in.  If you're really lucky you might be able to find a Caprice Wagon. 

The last year of production for these was 1996.  That makes the newest ones 22 years old.  Pickings will be slim.  Models include the Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser station wagon, Buick Roadmaster sedan and wagon, Cadillac Fleetwood and the already mentioned Chevys.  The LT1 engine is available and fairly common but the ignition coils are one per cylinder and rather pricey to replace, so one trades a high maintenance expense for a 265 HP engine.  The LO5 is one I had in my 1991 Cadillac Brougham.  It never did better than 24 MPG but at least it took 10% ethanol gasoline without complaint.

Rick

I see the Roadmaster wagon far more often than I do the sedan. I think that's the only post-1990 American-market car where that's the case.

[kkt]

Volvo 240. Best car ever made.

One problem, they might be the most hideous looking cars ever made:

I don't think they're hideous.  They're functional.  Enough room inside, excellent visibility without a backup camera.  They're very safe, and run forever with reasonable maintenance.  If they were making new ones, they'd be on my short list, but Volvo has been infected with gadgetitis and declining reliability.

[Max Rockatansky]

Volvo 240. Best car ever made.

One problem, they might be the most hideous looking cars ever made:

I don't think they're hideous.  They're functional.  Enough room inside, excellent visibility without a backup camera.  They're very safe, and run forever with reasonable maintenance.  If they were making new ones, they'd be on my short list, but Volvo has been infected with gadgetitis and declining reliability.

I'll give you reliable and functional, but no way on it being remotely a looker.  The irony about what you said is true, the newer cars are getting more mainstream...but that might not be such a good thing if the reliability/safety standards drop back to the rest of the pack.  At least some of the new Volvos are pretty decent looking, they certainly weathered through time and corporate spin-off way better than Saab ever did.

[jakeroot]

Volvo 240. Best car ever made.

One problem, they might be the most hideous looking cars ever made:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/1988-1991_Volvo_240_GL_station_wagon_%282011-06-15%29_02.jpg/1280px-1988-1991_Volvo_240_GL_station_wagon_%282011-06-15%29_02.jpg

I don't think they're hideous.  They're functional.  Enough room inside, excellent visibility without a backup camera.  They're very safe, and run forever with reasonable maintenance.  If they were making new ones, they'd be on my short list, but Volvo has been infected with gadgetitis and declining reliability.

I'll give you reliable and functional, but no way on it being remotely a looker.  The irony about what you said is true, the newer cars are getting more mainstream...but that might not be such a good thing if the reliability/safety standards drop back to the rest of the pack.  At least some of the new Volvos are pretty decent looking, they certainly weathered through time and corporate spin-off way better than Saab ever did.

I don't think overall reliability is dropping back, its just become more focused on two areas: transmissions, and electronics. Which is a far cry from car's of yore, where damn near everything was, in some way or another, susceptible to breaking. Wipers not working. Windows not rolling up. Belts coming loose. Exploding engines. Parts of the car literally falling off. Parking brake not holding. <-- These are all things that aren't really problems anymore, unless you seriously mistreat your car.

As far as safety, cars are far safer than ever before. That's not debatable. (in response to your "safety standards" comment)

[Max Rockatansky]

Volvo 240. Best car ever made.

One problem, they might be the most hideous looking cars ever made:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/1988-1991_Volvo_240_GL_station_wagon_%282011-06-15%29_02.jpg/1280px-1988-1991_Volvo_240_GL_station_wagon_%282011-06-15%29_02.jpg

I don't think they're hideous.  They're functional.  Enough room inside, excellent visibility without a backup camera.  They're very safe, and run forever with reasonable maintenance.  If they were making new ones, they'd be on my short list, but Volvo has been infected with gadgetitis and declining reliability.

I'll give you reliable and functional, but no way on it being remotely a looker.  The irony about what you said is true, the newer cars are getting more mainstream...but that might not be such a good thing if the reliability/safety standards drop back to the rest of the pack.  At least some of the new Volvos are pretty decent looking, they certainly weathered through time and corporate spin-off way better than Saab ever did.

I don't think overall reliability is dropping back, its just become more focused on two areas: transmissions, and electronics. Which is a far cry from car's of yore, where damn near everything was, in some way or another, susceptible to breaking. Wipers not working. Windows not rolling up. Belts coming loose. Exploding engines. Parts of the car literally falling off. Parking brake not holding. <-- These are all things that aren't really problems anymore, unless you seriously mistreat your car.

As far as safety, cars are far safer than ever before. That's not debatable. (in response to your "safety standards" comment)

That's the thing, that whole "safety" bit along with being practical was what the bread and butter for Volvo for the longest time.  Nowadays the difference between the worst car in a segment versus the top one can be extremely nominal.  Really there aren't anything really truly wretched cars out there...no more Yugos of the automotive world if you will.  So in Volvo's case they had to evolve into something different because they weren't going to get by on something niche forever.   So perhaps I should rephrase, it isn't so much that Volvo has fallen back but rather everyone else caught up to them. 

On the flip side Japanese cars used to have a huge leg up on build quality pretty much compared to everyone else.  The Domestic and European brands certainly caught up to those standards in the last decades. 

[Takumi]

On the flip side Japanese cars used to have a huge leg up on build quality pretty much compared to everyone else.  The Domestic and European brands certainly caught up to those standards in the last decades.

To an extent. Fewer of the Japanese cars are actually made in Japan compared to their heyday. Most of the volume-selling models are made in North America, and as such aren't generally quite as well-built as the few that are still made in Japan, which are mostly niche vehicles anyway, with the exceptions of a few Mazdas and Subarus.

[TheArkansasRoadgeek]

On the flip side Japanese cars used to have a huge leg up on build quality pretty much compared to everyone else.  The Domestic and European brands certainly caught up to those standards in the last decades.

To an extent. Fewer of the Japanese cars are actually made in Japan compared to their heyday. Most of the volume-selling models are made in North America, and as such aren't generally quite as well-built as the few that are still made in Japan, which are mostly niche vehicles anyway, with the exceptions of a few Mazdas and Subarus.

I would like to further that by saying that Toyota and (maybe Nissan?) moved their Headquarters to the US in recent years.

[Max Rockatansky]

On the flip side Japanese cars used to have a huge leg up on build quality pretty much compared to everyone else.  The Domestic and European brands certainly caught up to those standards in the last decades.

To an extent. Fewer of the Japanese cars are actually made in Japan compared to their heyday. Most of the volume-selling models are made in North America, and as such aren't generally quite as well-built as the few that are still made in Japan, which are mostly niche vehicles anyway, with the exceptions of a few Mazdas and Subarus.

I would like to further that by saying that Toyota and (maybe Nissan?) moved their Headquarters to the US in recent years.

All the Japanese Automakers still have their primary headquarters in their home country. 

[TheArkansasRoadgeek]

On the flip side Japanese cars used to have a huge leg up on build quality pretty much compared to everyone else.  The Domestic and European brands certainly caught up to those standards in the last decades.

To an extent. Fewer of the Japanese cars are actually made in Japan compared to their heyday. Most of the volume-selling models are made in North America, and as such aren't generally quite as well-built as the few that are still made in Japan, which are mostly niche vehicles anyway, with the exceptions of a few Mazdas and Subarus.

I would like to further that by saying that Toyota and (maybe Nissan?) moved their Headquarters to the US in recent years.

All the Japanese Automakers still have their primary headquarters in their home country.

In that case, let us refer to exibit A. For Amazon, of course!

[slorydn1]

Someone up thread was bashing Ford, and I have to say that in some areas, like fit and finish, their criticisms are pretty valid.

That said, I have had all kinds of Fords and one Mercury over the years and I have never been left stranded on the side of the road by any of them. I have 2 s-197 Mustangs in my driveway right now, and they both have been bulletproof so far.

Obviously, these would be too much car for young ArkansasRoadgeek at his price point, both in the cost of obtaining one and in upkeep.

If I were in his shoes now, I would be looking for something dependable that had some sembleance of power but without the crushing insurance a sporty type of car would bring. I'd be looking to get my hands on an early to mid 2000's Crown Vic (either civilian or CVPI) or even a Mercury Grand Marquis. They come with a 235-250 hp V8 and all the essentials that all of us take for granted in more expensive vehicles (power everything). They are large enough to carry mutiple friends and have a decent trunk and the gas mileage, though alot less than the Toyota's and Honda's that everyone seems to love, is really not that bad. I got 16-18 around town, 24-26 highway mpg in the 2001 Grand Marquis I had before my wifes Mustang.

I know they are not a particulary sexy car (my wife always refers to the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis as a grandpamobile) but they are hard to beat when it comes to the full package of what you get with one of them.


Being that you're in the south and trucks are coveted like sports cars were to us back in the day another choice may be a mid to late 1990's F150/Ram/Silverado-with truck prices staying up the way they are I don't see you being able to touch a fullsize from any year starting with a 2 in your price range. The downside would be the gas mileage would be horrible.

In the end, everything that that posters before me said about making sure what ever you get runs well, seems to have been well maintained is spot on. Really, just get what makes you happy,and that you can afford to keep running.

[kkt]

Back in the day, Volvo had an ad campaign focused on how long they lasted... a 100,000 miles digit on the odometer, etc.  Such a campaign would no longer hold up.

[cjk374]

Speaking of old police cars & such....larger municipalities will hold sealed-bid auctions to get rid of older vehicles. You could get a great car with cold air & regular maintenance having been performed throughout most of its life for literally just hundreds of dollars if you have the highest bid.

[PHLBOS]

Ford: Panther platforms before 1997 or after 2002 to avoid the plastic intake manifold are superior vehicles in terms of durability.  Used as cop cars, then pressed into taxi service, they'll hit for 500K miles plus.  Find a grandma-grade Crown Vic, Grand Marquis or Town Car and away you go!  Stay away from police/taxi vehicles.

The plastic intake manifold issue with the '92-'97 models (I had to replace such on my old '97 Crown Vic. over a decade ago) not the 1998-2001 models.  In all likelihood, most of the '92-'97 models that are still on the road have probably since had the manifolds replaced; especially ones with higher mileage.

I have 2 s-197 Mustangs in my driveway right now, and they both have been bulletproof so far.

I have a 2007 Mustang convertible that I've owned since new & can concur.  However, the only issue with purchasing a Mustang (or Camaro, Challenger etc.) as a first/starting vehicle could be the insurance rates; even with the mild V6 versions, such can still be coveted for parts.   

Back to the OP's topic at hand.  Aside from the fore-mentioned Mustang; all my other vehicles (purchased new & used) have been full-size Ford (dating back to the '69 vintage) or GM cars (dating back to the '74 vintage).  For the most part, they've all been reliable vehicles with the only issues being related to how these vehicles (used) were treated prior to my ownership.

[J N Winkler]

To an extent. Fewer of the Japanese cars are actually made in Japan compared to their heyday. Most of the volume-selling models are made in North America, and as such aren't generally quite as well-built as the few that are still made in Japan, which are mostly niche vehicles anyway, with the exceptions of a few Mazdas and Subarus.

My general impression, not having any experience with Japanese marques other than Toyota, Honda, and Nissan, is that it is mainly Toyota that upholds the Japanese reputation for quality.  Many of the differences between the Japanese and the US automakers that are associated with quality on the Japanese side--such as just-in-time inventory management, continuous improvement, no penalty for stopping the line for quality issues, etc.--are components of what is called the Toyota Production System.  Toyota has also historically maintained a lower defect rate with fewer quality control personnel than Nissan, its principal competitor.

In terms of Japanese vehicles in the family fleet, we have had a 1981 Toyota Tercel, a 1986 Nissan Maxima, a 1990 Toyota Cressida, a 1995 Nissan Maxima, a 2005 Toyota Camry, and a 2009 Honda Fit.  Our experience has been that while they have all been reliable in comparison to American cars of similar vintage, the Toyotas have been more reliable than any Japanese near-contemporaries in the family fleet.  The 1981 Tercel had a persistent problem with the carburetor:  a part that cost $300 to replace would routinely fail and rob 5 mpg.  The 1990 Cressida never required any repairs due to unscheduled component failure, since it was destroyed in an accident before it was old enough to see the 7M-GE head-bolt issue.  The 2005 Camry has never experienced unscheduled component failure with the lone exception of a burned-out taillight bulb.  In comparison, the 1986 Maxima ate multiple alternators, had body rust issues (still an issue with Nissans that has prompted recalls in the past ten years), and went through at least one cold idle solenoid.  The 1995 Maxima had no unscheduled component failures but was also destroyed in an accident at relatively low mileage.  The 2009 Honda Fit is still relatively young in terms of age and mileage but has fabric fraying on the driver's seat side bolster, has eaten one blower fan and one blower resistor (a common problem with second-generation Fits that is ultimately a design/supply chain issue), and has had two taillight bulb failures.

As far as I know, none of the vehicles that has been in the family since the 1960's has had to have either the engine or the transmission opened for major repairs.  However, my paternal grandmother had a 1984 Mercury Grand Marquis with a troublesome transmission that ultimately required overhaul.  One set of family friends had a mid-1980's Ford LTD that required a transmission rebuild, while another had a Ford Ranger compact pickup of similar vintage whose transmission exploded when a family member tried to take off without releasing the parking brake.

In terms of buying a first car with unknown and essentially non-verifiable history, however, the flip side of these experiences is that if you are seeking to manage the risk of powertrain problems by buying young and overmaintaining, your chances of finding an affordable vehicle are much better with the American marques than with the Japanese ones, since the "sensible" Japanese choices for first car (Corollavic, basically) sell for silly money.

[nexus73]

Ford: Panther platforms before 1997 or after 2002 to avoid the plastic intake manifold are superior vehicles in terms of durability.  Used as cop cars, then pressed into taxi service, they'll hit for 500K miles plus.  Find a grandma-grade Crown Vic, Grand Marquis or Town Car and away you go!  Stay away from police/taxi vehicles.

The plastic intake manifold issue with the '92-'97 models (I had to replace such on my old '97 Crown Vic. over a decade ago) not the 1998-2001 models.  In all likelihood, most of the '92-'97 models that are still on the road have probably since had the manifolds replaced; especially ones with higher mileage.

I have 2 s-197 Mustangs in my driveway right now, and they both have been bulletproof so far.

I have a 2007 Mustang convertible that I've owned since new & can concur.  However, the only issue with purchasing a Mustang (or Camaro, Challenger etc.) as a first/starting vehicle could be the insurance rates; even with the mild V6 versions, such can still be coveted for parts.   

Back to the OP's topic at hand.  Aside from the fore-mentioned Mustang; all my other vehicles (purchased new & used) have been full-size Ford (dating back to the '69 vintage) or GM cars (dating back to the '74 vintage).  For the most part, they've all been reliable vehicles with the only issues being related to how these vehicles (used) were treated prior to my ownership.

Not quite right Philbos regarding the plastic intake manifolds.  Here's the real deal info:

1996-2001 Ford Crown Victoria
2. 1996-2001 Mercury Grand Marquis
3. 1996-2001 Lincoln Town Car
4. 1997 (build date after 6/24/97) Mercury Cougar
5. 1997 (build date after 6/24/97) Ford Thunderbird
6. 1997 (build date after 6/24/97) Ford Mustang
7. Some 1998-2001 Ford Mustangs
8. Some 2002 Ford Explorers

http://stormeyes.org/wp/2006/02/defective-ford-intake-manifolds-get-your-money-now/

Hope that settles the issue.

Rick

[PHLBOS]

Fair enough, but your original post insinuated that the '96 Panther-platformed vehicles did not have the manifold issue whereas the data you later posted did.

I may still have my original letter at home; I could've sworn such listed models earlier than '96.  Unfortunately (for me), my manifold failed after the listed period.