AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Poll

In light of the threads about it, is it time we stopped beating a dead horse?

Yes
- 18 (40%)
No
- 27 (60%)

Total Members Voted: 45


Author Topic: Breezewood  (Read 3264 times)

Strider

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 523
  • Location: Greensboro, NC
  • Last Login: Today at 05:39:37 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2017, 06:36:55 PM »

Or build a trumpet interchange where I-70 westbound leaves the mainline and then curves west to meet the old turnpike on the way to toll plaza, and the loop ramp goes from I-70 eastbound past the toll plaza for drivers heading north to US 30 and the tourist trap area while the ramp for I-70 eastbound leaves heading south on I-70. the old turnpike east of there being removed.

As for the drivers heading south from Breezewood to I-70, there is a choice of taking a ramp to I-70 westbound, going to toll plaza or heading straight south to get on I-70 East.

Logged

SteveG1988

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2323
  • Age: 29
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: October 20, 2017, 11:48:36 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2017, 09:38:21 PM »

Simplest solution if you want to just keep it all as is, i-68 becomes i70, 70 becomes a 3di between i-79 and i-76 in PA. 70 between MD and the turnpike becomes a 3di as well. No longer do you have an interstate traveling along US30 to connect to itself, you have a 3DI ending at a US route, which isn't unheard of.
Logged

Alps

  • Everybody Obeys the Octagon
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11068
  • Hope for the Alan!

  • Age: 34
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 03:50:16 PM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2017, 01:35:55 AM »

Simplest solution if you want to just keep it all as is, i-68 becomes i70, 70 becomes a 3di between i-79 and i-76 in PA. 70 between MD and the turnpike becomes a 3di as well. No longer do you have an interstate traveling along US30 to connect to itself, you have a 3DI ending at a US route, which isn't unheard of.
I have to agree.
Logged
~ Steve
http://www.alpsroads.net
I've listened many times, and I still can't figure out what the fox says.

"YOUR NAME IS NAMED AFTER A BUTT"

SteveG1988

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2323
  • Age: 29
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: October 20, 2017, 11:48:36 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2017, 03:11:09 AM »

Simplest solution if you want to just keep it all as is, i-68 becomes i70, 70 becomes a 3di between i-79 and i-76 in PA. 70 between MD and the turnpike becomes a 3di as well. No longer do you have an interstate traveling along US30 to connect to itself, you have a 3DI ending at a US route, which isn't unheard of.
I have to agree.

Plus Maryland gets to increase traffic to the western end of the state, which is why they market i68 the way they do as "alt route to ohio and points west" i say 170 is the 3di between 70 and breezewood, and 370 between 79 and 76 if you want to keep that section an interstate. if 70 wasn't already signed along the corridor it is now, i could see this happening like how 68 was assigned to begin with.
Logged

ixnay

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 560
  • Location: U.S. East Coast
  • Last Login: October 21, 2017, 08:42:46 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2017, 05:49:06 AM »

Simplest solution if you want to just keep it all as is, i-68 becomes i70, 70 becomes a 3di between i-79 and i-76 in PA. 70 between MD and the turnpike becomes a 3di as well. No longer do you have an interstate traveling along US30 to connect to itself, you have a 3DI ending at a US route, which isn't unheard of.
I have to agree.

Plus Maryland gets to increase traffic to the western end of the state, which is why they market i68 the way they do as "alt route to ohio and points west" i say 170 is the 3di between 70 and breezewood, and 370 between 79 and 76 if you want to keep that section an interstate. if 70 wasn't already signed along the corridor it is now, i could see this happening like how 68 was assigned to begin with.

Under this scheme:

Would 68 become 70 in WV?

Would 70 and 79 be multiplexed between Morgantown and Washington, PA to keep 70 continuous?

ixnay
Logged

SteveG1988

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2323
  • Age: 29
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: October 20, 2017, 11:48:36 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2017, 10:08:19 AM »

Simplest solution if you want to just keep it all as is, i-68 becomes i70, 70 becomes a 3di between i-79 and i-76 in PA. 70 between MD and the turnpike becomes a 3di as well. No longer do you have an interstate traveling along US30 to connect to itself, you have a 3DI ending at a US route, which isn't unheard of.
I have to agree.

Plus Maryland gets to increase traffic to the western end of the state, which is why they market i68 the way they do as "alt route to ohio and points west" i say 170 is the 3di between 70 and breezewood, and 370 between 79 and 76 if you want to keep that section an interstate. if 70 wasn't already signed along the corridor it is now, i could see this happening like how 68 was assigned to begin with.

Under this scheme:

Would 68 become 70 in WV?

Would 70 and 79 be multiplexed between Morgantown and Washington, PA to keep 70 continuous?

ixnay

Yes, thought it was implied to be the case.
Logged

signalman

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 751
  • My most recent 2di clinch

  • Age: 37
  • Location: North Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 02:25:48 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2017, 10:16:42 AM »

Breezewood bothers me a lot more than the I-76/I-81, I-76/I-99 and I-80/I-476 interchanges, solely because Breezewood is a gap in a continuous highway (I-70).

And I must be in the minority because I don't have the gripes about I-78 that so many others do. I-70 between Washington and New Stanton, yes. But not I-78.
Agree on both parts.  I've driven I-78 between exit 13 (Bethel, PA) and various interchanges in NJ more times than I'd like to admit.  I've traveled on it nearly every hour of the day and day of the week over the years and I've never had an issue, even on the older US 22 segment (the part that most members here object to, I know).  Of course, most of PA's interstate mileage is substandard in one way or another and I just accept it as a Pennsylvania thing and move on.  I-70 between Washington and New Stanton is far worse, IMO.  Although I'd drive that section again if I had to, I covered it for clinching purposes and I had my fill of it.

ekt8750

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 405
  • Location: SE Pennsylvania
  • Last Login: Today at 06:55:40 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2017, 10:28:22 AM »

Simplest solution if you want to just keep it all as is, i-68 becomes i70, 70 becomes a 3di between i-79 and i-76 in PA. 70 between MD and the turnpike becomes a 3di as well. No longer do you have an interstate traveling along US30 to connect to itself, you have a 3DI ending at a US route, which isn't unheard of.

I like this solution a lot. It makes a lot of sense and frees up up a 2DI for something else. You can number the current I-70 from Breezewood to interchange with the current I-68 as I-170. I'd suspect PTC would balk at the notion of rerouting 70 cause of the revenue lost and I'm sure some Breezewood people would whine but it makes a lot of sense.
Logged

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 9514
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: October 21, 2017, 12:19:18 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #58 on: October 13, 2017, 11:40:34 AM »

Simplest solution if you want to just keep it all as is, i-68 becomes i70, 70 becomes a 3di between i-79 and i-76 in PA. 70 between MD and the turnpike becomes a 3di as well. No longer do you have an interstate traveling along US30 to connect to itself, you have a 3DI ending at a US route, which isn't unheard of.

I like this solution a lot. It makes a lot of sense and frees up up a 2DI for something else. You can number the current I-70 from Breezewood to interchange with the current I-68 as I-170. I'd suspect PTC would balk at the notion of rerouting 70 cause of the revenue lost and I'm sure some Breezewood people would whine but it makes a lot of sense.

This might be enough to motivate PTC and PennDOT to finally remediate Breezewood.
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1447
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 03:43:18 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #59 on: October 13, 2017, 12:02:15 PM »

Simplest solution if you want to just keep it all as is, i-68 becomes i70, 70 becomes a 3di between i-79 and i-76 in PA. 70 between MD and the turnpike becomes a 3di as well. No longer do you have an interstate traveling along US30 to connect to itself, you have a 3DI ending at a US route, which isn't unheard of.
I like this solution a lot. It makes a lot of sense and frees up up a 2DI for something else. You can number the current I-70 from Breezewood to interchange with the current I-68 as I-170. I'd suspect PTC would balk at the notion of rerouting 70 cause of the revenue lost and I'm sure some Breezewood people would whine but it makes a lot of sense.

I just ran the Google Maps routing, and the preferred routing doesn't use the PA Turnpike.

Columbus, Ohio -- Baltimore, Maryland

Using I-70 - I-68 - I-79 - I-70
420 miles
6 hr 22 min

Using I-70 thruout
413 miles
6 hr 26 min

Only a small difference in time and miles, not really enough to matter, but using I-68 you avoid 86 miles of tollroad. 

Clearly I-68 is the best route for cars and buses for the I-70 thru traffic.

What about large trucks?  Truckers in online discussions about I-68 say that the half dozen or so long grades have a big negative impact on travel time for trucks, compared to the PA Turnpike routing.  I would be interested to know how much.  If it is not very much then I definitely see the case for routing I-70 on this highway and overlapping the segment of I-79 between Morgantown VW and Washington PA.

The problem with estimating time for trucks, is that it would vary greatly, dependent on the size/power of its motor and the weight of its cargo. A truck packed with high value but low weight cargo (electronic items, etc.) might see very little reduction in speed on grades, whereas a truck at the maximum legal weight might see a large reduction in speed on grades.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 12:11:33 PM by Beltway »
Logged

briantroutman

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1459
  • Location: Philadelphia
  • Last Login: Today at 02:53:06 PM
    • briantroutman.com/land
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2017, 01:49:09 PM »

Regarding the route of I-70 vs. I-68: I always assumed that the I-68 routing is closer to what I-70 would have been if the Pennsylvania Turnpike had never been built. And the somewhat odd and indirect routing of I-70 via the Turnpike always struck me as an effort to save a relative few dollars and system miles by utilizing an existing freeway. But now that I-68 exists, the original rationale for routing I-70 over the Turnpike is no longer relevant.

As to trucks: I think it’s a safe assumption that almost no trucker is blindly following route numbers. In the case of most large fleets, routes are predetermined for the driver based on a detailed analysis of a number of factors (fuel consumption, mileage, time, traffic, tolls, etc.). Any successful independent owner operator is going to make a similar calculation, albeit with a less sophisticated spreadsheet or a pad and paper.

So if a large volume of trucks are following I-70 through Breezewood and on to New Stanton and Washington (Pa.), it’s not because of blind loyalty to the 70 shield. The trucking companies have done a detailed analysis of the mileage, time, costs, and other factors (including the Turnpike’s very high tolls on trucks), and have determined that the existing I-70 route is preferable for some objective reason.

Now on the topic of Breezewood itself and the discontinuity in I-70: Certainly, the stakeholders in Breezewood have and will continue to oppose a direct connection. But I think it’s more than a stretch to imply that the PTC or PennDOT have been ready to build a direct connection only to have the “big money” interests of Breezewood quash the ambitious plans in some kind of a smoky backroom deal. One Breezewood family donated $25,000 to Shuster over a decade? Peanuts. His son Bill Shuster raised $4.08 million for the 2016 election alone. Especially when you consider that a well connected construction company (i.e. another donor) would stand to make untold millions by building this connection.

If anything, the nickel-and-dime interests of Breezewood have merely helped keep an already unlikely project, unlikely. Almost nothing gets built in this state without resident groups, chambers of commerce, and highway boosters pleading for decades while successive generations of state and federal legislators jockey for funding from numerous sources. And there is no such public cry from people who live anywhere near Breezewood.
Logged

theroadwayone

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: San Diego, California
  • Last Login: Today at 05:20:42 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2017, 02:21:13 PM »

Right now, to travel on I-70 via the turnpike, it costs $12.10 cash, $8.54 EZ-Pass, if you're in a car. Just thought I'd get that out there.
Logged

BigRedDog

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 52
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Washington, Pa.
  • Last Login: October 21, 2017, 11:16:21 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2017, 04:01:05 PM »

Breezewood bothers me a lot more than the I-76/I-81, I-76/I-99 and I-80/I-476 interchanges, solely because Breezewood is a gap in a continuous highway (I-70).

And I must be in the minority because I don't have the gripes about I-78 that so many others do. I-70 between Washington and New Stanton, yes. But not I-78.
Agree on both parts.  I've driven I-78 between exit 13 (Bethel, PA) and various interchanges in NJ more times than I'd like to admit.  I've traveled on it nearly every hour of the day and day of the week over the years and I've never had an issue, even on the older US 22 segment (the part that most members here object to, I know).  Of course, most of PA's interstate mileage is substandard in one way or another and I just accept it as a Pennsylvania thing and move on.  I-70 between Washington and New Stanton is far worse, IMO.  Although I'd drive that section again if I had to, I covered it for clinching purposes and I had my fill of it.

FWIW, PennDOT is at least starting to upgrade I-70 between New Stanton and Washington (Pa.) The new six lane from the I-79 north junction to Beau St./PA-136 is nice. The work has begun to stretch the six lanes to the south junction. The new interchange at New Stanton is worlds better than the old one. I'm confident the new interchanges at Bentleyville/PA-917 and Monongahela/PA-481 will be better, too. There's a long way to go (including needed upgrades at the Donora/Fayette City/PA-201 and the Pittsburgh/Uniontown/PA-51 interchanges and many highway miles), but as someone who's driven on this section of I-70 for 20+ years, I'll give some credit where it's due.
Logged

SteveG1988

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2323
  • Age: 29
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: October 20, 2017, 11:48:36 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2017, 04:14:30 PM »

Regarding the route of I-70 vs. I-68: I always assumed that the I-68 routing is closer to what I-70 would have been if the Pennsylvania Turnpike had never been built. And the somewhat odd and indirect routing of I-70 via the Turnpike always struck me as an effort to save a relative few dollars and system miles by utilizing an existing freeway. But now that I-68 exists, the original rationale for routing I-70 over the Turnpike is no longer relevant.

As to trucks: I think it’s a safe assumption that almost no trucker is blindly following route numbers. In the case of most large fleets, routes are predetermined for the driver based on a detailed analysis of a number of factors (fuel consumption, mileage, time, traffic, tolls, etc.). Any successful independent owner operator is going to make a similar calculation, albeit with a less sophisticated spreadsheet or a pad and paper.

So if a large volume of trucks are following I-70 through Breezewood and on to New Stanton and Washington (Pa.), it’s not because of blind loyalty to the 70 shield. The trucking companies have done a detailed analysis of the mileage, time, costs, and other factors (including the Turnpike’s very high tolls on trucks), and have determined that the existing I-70 route is preferable for some objective reason.

Now on the topic of Breezewood itself and the discontinuity in I-70: Certainly, the stakeholders in Breezewood have and will continue to oppose a direct connection. But I think it’s more than a stretch to imply that the PTC or PennDOT have been ready to build a direct connection only to have the “big money” interests of Breezewood quash the ambitious plans in some kind of a smoky backroom deal. One Breezewood family donated $25,000 to Shuster over a decade? Peanuts. His son Bill Shuster raised $4.08 million for the 2016 election alone. Especially when you consider that a well connected construction company (i.e. another donor) would stand to make untold millions by building this connection.

If anything, the nickel-and-dime interests of Breezewood have merely helped keep an already unlikely project, unlikely. Almost nothing gets built in this state without resident groups, chambers of commerce, and highway boosters pleading for decades while successive generations of state and federal legislators jockey for funding from numerous sources. And there is no such public cry from people who live anywhere near Breezewood.

I have free will over my routing within reason. The other day i was going from Baltimore MD to Rogers AR, i68 and i70 were both viable routings, i took 70 because i had a load that made my combination 75,000 lbs, which on the hills of i68 suck a big one. There are times where with a lighter load i've had to climb a hill in 8th gear at 1800 rpm, almost redlining it just to do 35mph. PA turnpike has no hills that bad.
Logged

02 Park Ave

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 462
  • Happy motoring!

  • Location: Cherry Hill, New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 08:55:14 AM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #64 on: October 13, 2017, 05:04:46 PM »

Does I-68 have climbing lanes for trucks on these steep grades?  Or, is it just two lanes for its entire length?
Logged
C-o-H

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1447
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 03:43:18 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2017, 05:35:25 PM »

Regarding the route of I-70 vs. I-68: I always assumed that the I-68 routing is closer to what I-70 would have been if the Pennsylvania Turnpike had never been built. And the somewhat odd and indirect routing of I-70 via the Turnpike always struck me as an effort to save a relative few dollars and system miles by utilizing an existing freeway. But now that I-68 exists, the original rationale for routing I-70 over the Turnpike is no longer relevant.

I believe there would have been a Pennsylvania Turnpike, built at some point, but that the "what if" is if the New York Central Railroad had either completed that Pennsylvania line or never started building it in the first place, then the Turnpike would not have had a partially completed right-of-way to purchase, which considerably reduced the cost of the original 160 miles and enabled it to be built probably 10 years or more earlier than it would have been otherwise.

Interesting alternate history to think of how the Chicago to New York City turnpike would have developed without the abandoned railroad line.  I believe it would have been built, as the need was great, and that all the states involved would have seen the need.  The mountain section would probably have been built in the 1950s, and would have followed the US-22 corridor between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh, serving Altoona and with a spur to Johnstown, as there would have been no reason to build it thru such rural areas as where it actually was built.

That would mean no I-70 usage of the Turnpike, which would be too far to the north.  Likely I-70 would have followed the US-40 corridor between Hancock MD and Washington PA.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 05:40:44 PM by Beltway »
Logged

02 Park Ave

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 462
  • Happy motoring!

  • Location: Cherry Hill, New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 08:55:14 AM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #66 on: October 13, 2017, 05:42:47 PM »

I-80 probably would have been the routing of a Chicago to NYC turnpike.  I-80 in Pennsylvania does bear the name "Keystone Shortway".


Logged
C-o-H

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1447
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 03:43:18 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #67 on: October 13, 2017, 05:50:25 PM »

I-80 probably would have been the routing of a Chicago to NYC turnpike.  I-80 in Pennsylvania does bear the name "Keystone Shortway".

I thought about that but I wonder if PennDOT may have utilized the first 1956 toll-free Interstate plan whereby I-84 would follow the US-6 corridor across the state, as the current I-80 might be considered too close to the alternate history Turnpike.

I believe there still would have been high demand to have the Pennsylvania Turnpike serve Harrisburg and Philadelphia, and connect to the New Jersey Turnpike where it does today.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 05:52:45 PM by Beltway »
Logged

Alps

  • Everybody Obeys the Octagon
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11068
  • Hope for the Alan!

  • Age: 34
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 03:50:16 PM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #68 on: October 13, 2017, 06:09:15 PM »

Regarding the route of I-70 vs. I-68: I always assumed that the I-68 routing is closer to what I-70 would have been if the Pennsylvania Turnpike had never been built. And the somewhat odd and indirect routing of I-70 via the Turnpike always struck me as an effort to save a relative few dollars and system miles by utilizing an existing freeway. But now that I-68 exists, the original rationale for routing I-70 over the Turnpike is no longer relevant.
If I-76 was built in a straighter line from Pittsburgh to Harrisburg, it may have gone closer to Altoona. I could then see I-70 take a more direct route from Wheeling toward Morgantown (compared to current 70-79) before heading east. But how much traffic from DC/Baltimore is heading toward Wheeling and Morgantown? I bet much more is heading toward Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, etc. up I-76 toward I-80. So it's more plausible a separate I-70 could have existed if the PA Turnpike wasn't built on its alignment (I agree with other posters that it would have been built regardless), but not a given.
Logged
~ Steve
http://www.alpsroads.net
I've listened many times, and I still can't figure out what the fox says.

"YOUR NAME IS NAMED AFTER A BUTT"

Mr_Northside

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1035
  • "Oh god... They'll know! They'll know!"

  • Age: 38
  • Location: Woods Run (Northside), Pittsburgh, PA
  • Last Login: October 20, 2017, 04:17:30 PM
    • Currently playing washboard in Ye Olde Royal Shithouse Players
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #69 on: October 13, 2017, 06:34:42 PM »

If anything, the nickel-and-dime interests of Breezewood have merely helped keep an already unlikely project, unlikely. Almost nothing gets built in this state without resident groups, chambers of commerce, and highway boosters pleading for decades while successive generations of state and federal legislators jockey for funding from numerous sources. And there is no such public cry from people who live anywhere near Breezewood.

I agree with this... When Cranberry deemed the local use of US-19 & PA-228 (depending on source/destination) to get from the Turnpike to I-79 to be much more of a hindrance to their community than a help, they pushed the PTC and PennDOT to get the direct connection done - and eventually it was.
Unless it starts with locals getting the ball moving to find the will and funding, the "Breezewood interests" may be a factor, but it's local apathy that's the biggest issue.

Perhaps if the feds came in and paid for it so PennDOT & the PTC wouldn't have to adjust their budgets, the "Breezewood Interests" might raise a stink, but I don't know that a "free" interchange would be turned down by either agency.
Logged
I don't have opinions anymore. All I know is that no one is better than anyone else, and everyone is the best at everything

briantroutman

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1459
  • Location: Philadelphia
  • Last Login: Today at 02:53:06 PM
    • briantroutman.com/land
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #70 on: October 13, 2017, 07:28:02 PM »

I had a thread in Fictional a couple of years ago speculating as to what the region’s Interstate grid would look like had the PA Turnpike never been built and the Interstates were routed without any toll predecessors.

In short, I theorized that PA’s Interstates would be closer to direct replacements for their US predecessors. So I assumed that PA’s central E-W Interstate, I-80 for the sake of argument, would have been part of an NYC-Allentown-Harrisburg-Altoona-Pittsburgh corridor replacing US 22. I-70 would have followed US 40’s route more closely (Hagerstown-Cumberland-Washington Pa.-Wheeling). And the Keystone Shortway wouldn’t be necessary, replaced by a Scranton-Erie I-84 along the US 6 corridor.

Of course there are tons of “what if” questions—would the Interstate program moved as swiftly without the Turnpike as an example, would the design standards have been different, and so on.
Logged

hbelkins

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10709
  • Celebrating another day that Hillary isn't prez.

  • Age: 55
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Last Login: Today at 12:39:49 AM
    • Millennium Highway
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #71 on: October 13, 2017, 08:15:10 PM »

One thing that isn't being mentioned here is the oft-discussed extension of I-68 west from Morgantown to the Ohio River. New Martinsville is the most frequently mentioned western terminus since it's where the current route from Morgantown to the river (WV 7) terminates. But if the route could be angled northward to connect with the WV 2/US 250 freeway, which connects with both I-70 and I-470, it might become a more viable alternative to the Turnpike and Breezewood.

Does I-68 have climbing lanes for trucks on these steep grades?  Or, is it just two lanes for its entire length?

There are climbing lanes on most of the steep grades in both West Virginia and Maryland.
Logged

roadman65

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 7618
  • Location: Orlando, fl
  • Last Login: October 20, 2017, 04:55:50 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #72 on: October 13, 2017, 08:17:46 PM »

With the tolls as high as they are these days, that might be an option to extend I-68 to make it to Wheeling.  Those on I-70 can shunpike the tolls by using this and bypass PA and not patronize the businesses on US 30 in Breezewood.
Logged
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Beltway

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1447
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 03:43:18 PM
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #73 on: October 13, 2017, 08:48:39 PM »

I had a thread in Fictional a couple of years ago speculating as to what the region’s Interstate grid would look like had the PA Turnpike never been built and the Interstates were routed without any toll predecessors.
In short, I theorized that PA’s Interstates would be closer to direct replacements for their US predecessors. So I assumed that PA’s central E-W Interstate, I-80 for the sake of argument, would have been part of an NYC-Allentown-Harrisburg-Altoona-Pittsburgh corridor replacing US 22. I-70 would have followed US 40’s route more closely (Hagerstown-Cumberland-Washington Pa.-Wheeling). And the Keystone Shortway wouldn’t be necessary, replaced by a Scranton-Erie I-84 along the US 6 corridor.
Of course there are tons of “what if” questions—would the Interstate program moved as swiftly without the Turnpike as an example, would the design standards have been different, and so on.

Interesting thread ... the only other "what if" I have seen about what would happen if the Turnpike did not follow the abandoned NY Central railroad grade!  Although yours assumes no turnpikes at all.

Other major turnpikes were being planned in the late 1940s that were not in the NYC-Chicago corridor (Florida, New Jersey, New York, Maine), and they would get built in the 1950s regardless, so I think that the general turnpike system that we have definitely would have been built, including the NJ-PA-OH-IN-IL turnpike.

I would still maintain that a PA Turnpike would be built, and probably completed east-west by 1956 as in the original timeline, and would connect the same three major metros, just that the segment between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg would follow the US-22 corridor.

The highway needs filled by these turnpikes after WW II were IMO too great for states to wait 10 more years for a 1956 Federal Aid Highway Act that would fund toll-free Interstate highways.  Even after that act some states used toll financing to advance the construction of Interstates, such as I-95 between Baltimore and Wilmington DE.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 08:55:09 PM by Beltway »
Logged

Alps

  • Everybody Obeys the Octagon
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11068
  • Hope for the Alan!

  • Age: 34
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 03:50:16 PM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: Breezewood
« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2017, 09:25:13 PM »

One thing that isn't being mentioned here is the oft-discussed extension of I-68 west from Morgantown to the Ohio River. New Martinsville is the most frequently mentioned western terminus since it's where the current route from Morgantown to the river (WV 7) terminates. But if the route could be angled northward to connect with the WV 2/US 250 freeway, which connects with both I-70 and I-470, it might become a more viable alternative to the Turnpike and Breezewood.
The only westward corridor that makes sense is US 50 to US 33. That gives you the diagonal connection to I-70 while making use of current freeway/expressway routes that are more heavily traveled. There's no demand to head due west.
Logged
~ Steve
http://www.alpsroads.net
I've listened many times, and I still can't figure out what the fox says.

"YOUR NAME IS NAMED AFTER A BUTT"

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.