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Desolate Places Near Metropolitan Areas

Started by Avalanchez71, January 12, 2018, 02:33:08 PM

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hotdogPi

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 13, 2018, 03:39:44 PM
Closest in Boston area is Dover and the towns in that area. Not actually very far from Boston but looks rural.

The population of Dover MA is 6,279. Just because there are no numbered highways within its borders does not mean it is desolate.
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Roadgeekteen

Quote from: 1 on January 13, 2018, 03:43:30 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 13, 2018, 03:39:44 PM
Closest in Boston area is Dover and the towns in that area. Not actually very far from Boston but looks rural.

The population of Dover MA is 6,279. Just because there are no numbered highways within its borders does not mean it is desolate.
I know that it is not that rural, but most other towns that close to Boston look a lot more crowded.
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DandyDan

The part of the St. Louis area between the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers didn't seem to be well populated the year I drove through there.
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GaryV

Nobody's mentioned the desolate areas IN Detroit yet?

They're not vast, but there are several areas where there's so little left standing that they were considering creating farms, even forestry.

US 89

Quote from: pdx-wanderer on January 12, 2018, 03:37:01 PM
West of Salt Lake City on I-80

This is about 10 miles west of Salt Lake City.

The reason they can’t build out there is mostly due to its low elevation. Some of that area is wetland, and most of it actually lies below the 4217-foot floodplain of the Great Salt Lake. If that wasn’t bad enough, the water table is probably quite high, and the soil isn’t that great either (which is why there isn’t any farming out there). The two major operations out that way are the SLC landfill and Kennecott Copper.

Road Hog

There are still a few horse ranches smack in the middle of Plano, Texas. Surrounded on all sides by subdivisions and businesses. Don't see how the owners can afford the property tax.

sparker

#31
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 13, 2018, 03:42:46 PM
Quote from: sparker on January 13, 2018, 03:33:59 PM
If you look at a CA state map, the area north of Santa Barbara (and bounded by CA 192, CA 154, US 101, CA 166, CA 33, and CA 150) is one of the most desolate areas located anywhere near the populated area (Ventura County and south & west Santa Barbara County).  Recently in the news because of the massive Thomas wildfire and ensuing mudslides in Montecito (at the southern edge of this wilderness), it is a complex of canyons and ridges without much in the way of developable flatter sections -- which is why it has remained largely untouched and uninhabited since CA was settled.  Driving up CA 33 from Ojai to CA 166 certainly gives one an idea of this particular topography (I highly recommend that drive in any case; one of the more scenic in SoCal).

Which also happens to be part of the Old US 399 corridor.  There are some awesome views of he snaking roadway north of Ventura.

Snaking is a real understatement; the road takes a series of 180-degree turns to get up out of Matilija Canyon up to the summit in a relatively short distance.  On a day that isn't foggy or hazy, from this section you can see all the way south into Ventura itself.  Northward the drop into the Cuyama River valley isn't as pronounced; once down the hill it's pretty much a straight shot down the valley to the 166 junction.  But for anyone interested in continuing the mountain journey, an eastward turn onto Lockwood Valley Road at Ozema toward Frazier Park (unnumbered county road, paved 2-lane) is available; it'll eventually dump you out onto I-5 just north of Tejon Pass.   

michravera

Quote from: sparker on January 14, 2018, 02:10:10 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 13, 2018, 03:42:46 PM
Quote from: sparker on January 13, 2018, 03:33:59 PM
If you look at a CA state map, the area north of Santa Barbara (and bounded by CA 192, CA 154, US 101, CA 166, CA 33, and CA 150) is one of the most desolate areas located anywhere near the populated area (Ventura County and south & west Santa Barbara County).  Recently in the news because of the massive Thomas wildfire and ensuing mudslides in Montecito (at the southern edge of this wilderness), it is a complex of canyons and ridges without much in the way of developable flatter sections -- which is why it has remained largely untouched and uninhabited since CA was settled.  Driving up CA 33 from Ojai to CA 166 certainly gives one an idea of this particular topography (I highly recommend that drive in any case; one of the more scenic in SoCal).

Which also happens to be part of the Old US 399 corridor.  There are some awesome views of he snaking roadway north of Ventura.

Snaking is a real understatement; the road takes a series of 180-degree turns to get up out of Matilija Canyon up to the summit in a relatively short distance.  On a day that isn't foggy or hazy, from this section you can see all the way south into Ventura itself.  Northward the drop into the Cuyama River valley isn't as pronounced; once down the hill it's pretty much a straight shot down the valley to the 166 junction.  But for anyone interested in continuing the mountain journey, an eastward turn onto Lockwood Valley Road at Ozema toward Frazier Park (unnumbered county road, paved 2-lane) is available; it'll eventually dump you out onto I-5 just north of Tejon Pass.   

This happens a lot in California: Hills that are too steep or too unstable on which to build or farm and water looking for a new way to the ocean. A lot of CASR-1 was built way above sea level on stilts because there was no stable route at a lower altitude.

Santa Clara and Monterey counties (both with top 50 MSAs) have extensive rural areas.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: michravera on January 14, 2018, 11:23:41 AM
Quote from: sparker on January 14, 2018, 02:10:10 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 13, 2018, 03:42:46 PM
Quote from: sparker on January 13, 2018, 03:33:59 PM
If you look at a CA state map, the area north of Santa Barbara (and bounded by CA 192, CA 154, US 101, CA 166, CA 33, and CA 150) is one of the most desolate areas located anywhere near the populated area (Ventura County and south & west Santa Barbara County).  Recently in the news because of the massive Thomas wildfire and ensuing mudslides in Montecito (at the southern edge of this wilderness), it is a complex of canyons and ridges without much in the way of developable flatter sections -- which is why it has remained largely untouched and uninhabited since CA was settled.  Driving up CA 33 from Ojai to CA 166 certainly gives one an idea of this particular topography (I highly recommend that drive in any case; one of the more scenic in SoCal).

Which also happens to be part of the Old US 399 corridor.  There are some awesome views of he snaking roadway north of Ventura.

Snaking is a real understatement; the road takes a series of 180-degree turns to get up out of Matilija Canyon up to the summit in a relatively short distance.  On a day that isn't foggy or hazy, from this section you can see all the way south into Ventura itself.  Northward the drop into the Cuyama River valley isn't as pronounced; once down the hill it's pretty much a straight shot down the valley to the 166 junction.  But for anyone interested in continuing the mountain journey, an eastward turn onto Lockwood Valley Road at Ozema toward Frazier Park (unnumbered county road, paved 2-lane) is available; it'll eventually dump you out onto I-5 just north of Tejon Pass.   

This happens a lot in California: Hills that are too steep or too unstable on which to build or farm and water looking for a new way to the ocean. A lot of CASR-1 was built way above sea level on stilts because there was no stable route at a lower altitude.

Santa Clara and Monterey counties (both with top 50 MSAs) have extensive rural areas.

But then you have the reserve happening also.  There is a population band stretching east and north out of Fresno on 41 in addition to 180 in the Sierras.  The real drop off is to the South immediately outside the city limits on 41.  The only major community between on 41 south to Paso Robles would be Lemoore, otherwise it is a pretty sparsely populated part of the Central Valley.  The Tulare Lake Basin and watershed area to the north essentially makes anything but farm land development impractical. 

briantroutman

Stony Valley in Pennsylvania is a particularly desolate narrow strip between two ridges a mere ten miles north of the Capitol Complex.

Though Harrisburg isn't exactly a bustling metropolis, Stony Valley's seclusion is remarkable because even rural areas of Pennsylvania tend to have a certain minimum distribution of population and development. It seems that no matter where you go in the Keystone State, no matter how far removed from anything resembling a city, you're nearly always within a mile of a home, a farm, or some kind of business.

But in Stony Valley, you can either bike or hike for about 18 miles–from Ellendale Forge near the borough of Dauphin to Gold Mine Road near Swatara State Park–without seeing any homes, roads, power lines...almost no trace of human development whatsoever except for the trail itself. And if you go there on a weekday, you might not see any human beings either. You can't hear any sounds of the human world either–just the wind through the trees, water running through creeks, and the occasional animal.


Beltway

Quote from: briantroutman on January 14, 2018, 12:18:39 PM
Though Harrisburg isn't exactly a bustling metropolis, Stony Valley's seclusion is remarkable because even rural areas of Pennsylvania tend to have a certain minimum distribution of population and development. It seems that no matter where you go in the Keystone State, no matter how far removed from anything resembling a city, you're nearly always within a mile of a home, a farm, or some kind of business.

Nearly all rural areas are populated, just not in urban fashion; they rarely empty.  About 20% of U.S. population is in rural areas.

I do agree that some rural areas of Pennsylvania are what should probably have a definition of its own, much of counties like Lancaster and Berks have what I would call "heavily populated rural areas", lots of homes and buildings visible, but not in urban clusters.
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adventurernumber1

#36
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 13, 2018, 03:44:40 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 13, 2018, 03:43:30 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 13, 2018, 03:39:44 PM
Closest in Boston area is Dover and the towns in that area. Not actually very far from Boston but looks rural.

The population of Dover MA is 6,279. Just because there are no numbered highways within its borders does not mean it is desolate.
I know that it is not that rural, but most other towns that close to Boston look a lot more crowded.

Dover, Massachusetts is definitely, definitely not desolate. Rural does not necessarily equal desolate. I don't even know if I would call the town rural - it's still got a fair bit of stuff, and it is very, very close to Boston.

Desolate would describe places like the Everglades and parts of the Mojave Desert.


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US 89

IMO, this is a good comparison between rural and desolate.

The distinction I'd make is that rural areas have farms or ranches, or at least some sign of human activity. Truly desolate areas have absolutely nothing.

jwolfer

The New Jersey Pine Barrens are very desolate, for the Northeast at least. 30 miles east of Philadelphia and 60 miles south of NYC

Okeefenokee Swamp and into Osceola National Forest is really close to Jacksonville.  Similar to Miami being close to Everglades. Although I don't think anywhere is as drastic as South Florida.

The desolate areas are usually swampy, not useful for agriculture, so no one settled there. Agriculture tends to makes an area not be desolate, there are farm/ranch buildings, houses and small settlements as well as other signs of human activity


Z981


Flint1979

Quote from: GaryV on January 13, 2018, 06:43:55 PM
Nobody's mentioned the desolate areas IN Detroit yet?

They're not vast, but there are several areas where there's so little left standing that they were considering creating farms, even forestry.
Granted there are several large areas of Detroit that are pretty empty I can't think of one part of the city that is completely void of any type of life. I'd like to see if there is such an area in Detroit. About six years ago I had to go to Southgate one day and decided I wanted to try to find a part of Detroit that was just pure abandoned with no sign of life, so I was in the North End section of Detroit and decided to take a drive along Philadelphia Avenue to which it seemed like every house was abandoned and some were in such poor shape that they had collapsed porches and collapsed other things on the house.

To me the most empty part of Detroit would probably be the area near the old Packard Plant. I was driving around Detroit with a friend of mine and took Grand Blvd. around the loop but when I got to the Packard Plant I turned on Concord and just before I turned I told my friend it's about to look real ghetto here in a second, made that turn and it was exactly what I said which wasn't really a surprise to me since I'd been around the Packard Plant numerous times before.

Btw, the most dangerous zip code in Detroit is probably 48205.

Flint1979

I just noticed how big in area King County, Washington is. I can imagine the eastern section of the county is pretty desolate in places and of course the western section of the county is Seattle and it's suburbs.

Eth

For an example outside the USA:

While Reykjavik wouldn't really be on the radar as a "metropolitan area" by US standards (regional population just over 200k), it is Iceland's largest city, and I'd say this view on route 41 about eight miles outside of downtown is about as desolate as it gets.


Max Rockatansky

Las Vegas is pretty desolate in several directions.  Almost nobody lives on the US 95 corridor to the northwest aside from some small little towns and military installations associated with Nellis and the Nevada Test Site.  US 93 to the north is much of the same with lightly populated towns well past their mining glory days.  The shift to open desert is pretty abrupt for the most.

thenetwork

#43
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on January 12, 2018, 03:13:07 PM
Before clicking on this thread, I knew Miami, Florida would be the perfect example of this in the United States. It's hard to beat all the Highways and suburbia that instantly turn into the swampy, barely-populated Everglades as you head West. The Miami Metro Area is incredibly large and populated; however it is much, much longer north-south than it is east-west. There is definitely an abrupt change of scenery at the western edge of the metro area that is hard to beat.


Trying to think of other examples:

1) Denver, Colorado comes to mind. I'm not certain how concentrated of people the mountains right directly west of Denver are, but it seems like they must be at least somewhat desolate. With mountains (especially huge ones like the Rockies) being large natural geographic barriers, it is not too surprising of the abrupt change that happens when traveling West out of the Denver Metro Area. On the other side, I'm not sure exactly how abrupt the change is, but it seems like that, in places, the Great Plains are somewhat desolate, and of course that is what lies directly on the east side of the Denver Metro Area.

In less than a 10-minute drive on I-70,  you can go from a 8-10 lane freeway near I-225 and Pena Boulevard/DIA to a quiet 4-lane rural interstate east of Colfax/BL-70.

To prove it, there are many times in the winter months when there are significant snowfalls, that they will close I-70 from a few miles east of Pena/E-470 all the way to the Kansas state line because the traffic counts drop so quickly.


And in the Midwest, as I have mentioned before, is the immediate urban/rural switch when you cross over the OH/MI state line in Toledo on I-75 or US-23.  Michigan did a pretty good job in keeping businesses and subdivisions from overflowing from Toledo over the decades.

inkyatari

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kphoger

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 12, 2018, 05:06:41 PM
Quote from: corco on January 12, 2018, 04:58:18 PM
In my experience, New Mexico usually uses 86, unlike the 85 that CO/WY/UT/Eastern Idaho use.

Usually I was up in Ruidoso or Alamogordo but it was years ago so I could be mistaken.  I believe it clicked down to 85 in the Sierra Blancas and certain heights..  Isn't the degraded octane for some sort of emissions purpose?

The higher the elevation, the less octane is required to keep your engine from knocking.  If higher octane isn't needed, then why sell it?

What I find interesting is that regular in Guatemala is 88 RON (approximately 84½ AKI).  This might be fine in high-elevation cities such as Guatemala City and Xela, but how to people's cars manage to handle that low of an octane rating up in Puerto Barrios (barely over 2000 feet) or the Petén (less than 1000 feet)?
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Flint1979

Quote from: briantroutman on January 14, 2018, 12:18:39 PM
Stony Valley in Pennsylvania is a particularly desolate narrow strip between two ridges a mere ten miles north of the Capitol Complex.

Though Harrisburg isn't exactly a bustling metropolis, Stony Valley's seclusion is remarkable because even rural areas of Pennsylvania tend to have a certain minimum distribution of population and development. It seems that no matter where you go in the Keystone State, no matter how far removed from anything resembling a city, you're nearly always within a mile of a home, a farm, or some kind of business.

But in Stony Valley, you can either bike or hike for about 18 miles–from Ellendale Forge near the borough of Dauphin to Gold Mine Road near Swatara State Park–without seeing any homes, roads, power lines...almost no trace of human development whatsoever except for the trail itself. And if you go there on a weekday, you might not see any human beings either. You can't hear any sounds of the human world either–just the wind through the trees, water running through creeks, and the occasional animal.


Sounds like a place I'd love to be.

Flint1979

Quote from: thenetwork on January 15, 2018, 11:12:48 AM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on January 12, 2018, 03:13:07 PM
Before clicking on this thread, I knew Miami, Florida would be the perfect example of this in the United States. It's hard to beat all the Highways and suburbia that instantly turn into the swampy, barely-populated Everglades as you head West. The Miami Metro Area is incredibly large and populated; however it is much, much longer north-south than it is east-west. There is definitely an abrupt change of scenery at the western edge of the metro area that is hard to beat.


Trying to think of other examples:

1) Denver, Colorado comes to mind. I'm not certain how concentrated of people the mountains right directly west of Denver are, but it seems like they must be at least somewhat desolate. With mountains (especially huge ones like the Rockies) being large natural geographic barriers, it is not too surprising of the abrupt change that happens when traveling West out of the Denver Metro Area. On the other side, I'm not sure exactly how abrupt the change is, but it seems like that, in places, the Great Plains are somewhat desolate, and of course that is what lies directly on the east side of the Denver Metro Area.

In less than a 10-minute drive on I-70,  you can go from a 8-10 lane freeway near I-225 and Pena Boulevard/DIA to a quiet 4-lane rural interstate east of Colfax/BL-70.

To prove it, there are many times in the winter months when there are significant snowfalls, that they will close I-70 from a few miles east of Pena/E-470 all the way to the Kansas state line because the traffic counts drop so quickly.


And in the Midwest, as I have mentioned before, is the immediate urban/rural switch when you cross over the OH/MI state line in Toledo on I-75 or US-23.  Michigan did a pretty good job in keeping businesses and subdivisions from overflowing from Toledo over the decades.
Not really. There's over 30,000 people in Bedford Township and Erie Township has around 5,000 people. Bedford Township is Toledo's second largest suburb and is in between I-75 and US 23.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2018, 02:09:27 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 12, 2018, 05:06:41 PM
Quote from: corco on January 12, 2018, 04:58:18 PM
In my experience, New Mexico usually uses 86, unlike the 85 that CO/WY/UT/Eastern Idaho use.

Usually I was up in Ruidoso or Alamogordo but it was years ago so I could be mistaken.  I believe it clicked down to 85 in the Sierra Blancas and certain heights..  Isn't the degraded octane for some sort of emissions purpose?

The higher the elevation, the less octane is required to keep your engine from knocking.  If higher octane isn't needed, then why sell it?

What I find interesting is that regular in Guatemala is 88 RON (approximately 84½ AKI).  This might be fine in high-elevation cities such as Guatemala City and Xela, but how to people's cars manage to handle that low of an octane rating up in Puerto Barrios (barely over 2000 feet) or the Petén (less than 1000 feet)?

That's the tricky thing there, what happens when you get back to a low elevation?  Usually those work trips back in those days could be 300-550 miles long in a given day.  I'd hate to fill up with 85 octane in Ruidoso only to get somewhere like Tucson to have the engine start knocking. Always seemed like the prudent thing to do was purchase 88 and just eat the couple cents difference. 

kphoger

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 15, 2018, 02:25:18 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2018, 02:09:27 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 12, 2018, 05:06:41 PM
Quote from: corco on January 12, 2018, 04:58:18 PM
In my experience, New Mexico usually uses 86, unlike the 85 that CO/WY/UT/Eastern Idaho use.

Usually I was up in Ruidoso or Alamogordo but it was years ago so I could be mistaken.  I believe it clicked down to 85 in the Sierra Blancas and certain heights..  Isn't the degraded octane for some sort of emissions purpose?

The higher the elevation, the less octane is required to keep your engine from knocking.  If higher octane isn't needed, then why sell it?

What I find interesting is that regular in Guatemala is 88 RON (approximately 84½ AKI).  This might be fine in high-elevation cities such as Guatemala City and Xela, but how to people's cars manage to handle that low of an octane rating up in Puerto Barrios (barely over 2000 feet) or the Petén (less than 1000 feet)?

That's the tricky thing there, what happens when you get back to a low elevation?  Usually those work trips back in those days could be 300-550 miles long in a given day.  I'd hate to fill up with 85 octane in Ruidoso only to get somewhere like Tucson to have the engine start knocking. Always seemed like the prudent thing to do was purchase 88 and just eat the couple cents difference. 

That's why I was amazed to see 85 AKI sold in Burlington, CO (elev. 4170 feet).  Travelling eastbound on I-70, a full tank of gas purchased in Burlington can easily get you to 1200 feet elevation.
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