Radar detectors illegal in Virginia

[LM117]

I just stumbled across an interesting article explaining why Virginia is the only state in the nation that bans radar detectors and why previous attempts to change it failed.

https://pilotonline.com/ask/article_88328276-48ce-11e8-8328-53ae311887d4.html

[Beltway]

I just stumbled across an interesting article explaining why Virginia is the only state in the nation that bans radar detectors and why previous attempts to change it failed.

Article not accessible without a subscription.  Radar detectors exist for no other reason than to commit a crime.

[LM117]

I just stumbled across an interesting article explaining why Virginia is the only state in the nation that bans radar detectors and why previous attempts to change it failed.

https://pilotonline.com/ask/article_88328276-48ce-11e8-8328-53ae311887d4.html

Article not accessible without a subscription.  Radar detectors exist for no other reason than to commit a crime.

I don't have a subscription and it worked fine for me, but anyway here's the article:

Virginia remains the only state where radar detectors in vehicles are illegal.

A curious reader wanted to know why. He asked The Pilot as part of its ongoing "Glad you Asked"  feature, where we invite readers to submit questions to check out. Have a question of your own? Go to pilotonline.com/ask.

Radar detectors are in-vehicle devices that essentially alert drivers that police are using radar guns to detect speed. The goal is to avoid getting speeding tickets.

But why do Virginia and the District of Columbia stand alone while the other 49 states have lifted bans?

There's no direct answer, but lawmakers and political observers say it comes down to a few things:

1. Why legalize something that essentially makes it easier to break the law?

2. Virginia can historically be slow to change its laws.

3. The detector technology, popular in the "˜80s, "˜90s and 2000s, is largely becoming obsolete.

Former state trooper and current Virginia State Sen. Bill Carrico said most people who use detectors are doing so to violate the law. Why should the state allow it?

He said law enforcement often picks up wanted criminals, drug trafficking and more through traffic stops. Legalize detectors, he says, and more would slip through cops' fingers.

"I've never supported a change to the law,"  Carrico said.

The ban on radar detectors in Virginia started in 1962. Similar laws have been enacted in other states only to be repealed over the years.

You can't sell the devices in Virginia and you can get a traffic ticket that comes with a fine of no more than $250 if the device is accessible to drivers or passengers in a vehicle — even if it's not being used at the time. Police can also confiscate the devices.

The General Assembly has proposed bills to change the laws over the years, but all have failed.

The 2010 repeal was defeated in the House 61-38. The 2015 repeal didn't even make it out of committee.

Del. David LaRock, who pitched the 2015 bill to allow radar detectors at a constituent's request, told a TV station that there's no evidence the detectors improve highway safety.

"It's never been shown that radar detectors cause accidents. It's difficult and expensive to enforce, so there are a lot of reasons to repeal it,"  LaRock said.

Google "why are radar detectors illegal in Virginia?"  and you'll get a crop of people opining about speed traps being a state cash cow. But it appears the state doesn't know how the repeal of the detector ban would affect the bottom line, according to a fiscal impact statement for the 2010 bill.

"The proposed legislation could potentially affect revenue collected from the fines paid for this traffic violation; however, it is not possible to estimate the fiscal impact as data is insufficient and contributing factors are unknown,"  the document read.

Virginia also can be slow to update or change seemingly archaic laws. It was only this year that the state increased its felony threshold for stealing goods from $250 to $500, finally joining the middle-of-the-pack of states after being in the basement for decades. It took years to eliminate the Sunday "blue laws"  for liquor sales. There are also prohibitions on cursing and extramarital sex that are still on the books.

"In Virginia, we never rush into things,"  Del. Joe May told a subcommittee hearing on his radar detector repeal bill in 2010. "This is one of those things that we haven't rushed into, and I think it's time we did."

He said the law had outlived its usefulness and created an inhospitable climate for visitors passing through the state.

As for technology, the Virginia State Police say they use a number of different types of equipment, including LIDAR, "pacing"  and VASCAR to catch speeders. The state police wrote 13,673 tickets in 10 months from 1990 to 1991, when radar detectors were more popular.

Carrico says newer police speed detectors have a "hold"  button that doesn't emit the radar until it's needed, basically making the radar detection systems useful, but only after it's too late and cops have got you clocked.

And on the consumer side, apps like Waze have used crowd-sourcing data to point out speed traps, largely making the detectors, which can cost up to $500, obsolete.

So why have other states changed it?

"Maybe they didn't have a law enforcement officer in their legislature,"  Carrico said.

[Beltway]

So why have other states changed it?

Most states likely never had a  specific ban in the first place.

That doesn't mean that it is legal, as the laws around the country are murky --

https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/08/are-radar-detectors-legal.html

However, before installing a radar detector in your car or phone, you should know that it may be illegal for you to drive with a radar detector.

Generally, radar detector laws for personal vehicles are state specific.  So there is no universal answer to whether radar detectors are legal.  Some jurisdictions have flat-out prohibitions from using radar detectors like in Virginia and the District of Columbia.  While other states like California, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey have prohibitions from placing things like radar detectors on your windshield.

In many states, there are no laws that specifically prohibit the use of radar detectors.  But even when the law does not have a specific prohibition, you may want to consult with an attorney to learn all the possible exceptions and conditions for legally having a radar detector in your car.

While radar detectors laws for personal vehicles are typically left to the states, drivers of commercial vehicles should be aware that there are federal regulations that specifically prohibit radar detectors.  So even if your state allows these detectors for personal cars, it will still be illegal if you drive a commercial vehicle.

[hbelkins]

^^^ So this basically means that even if you come to a full stop before or upon crossing the state line, remove your radar detector from its mount and then place it elsewhere in a hatchback, SUV, or other vehicle without a separate trunk, you are in violation of the law because technically it would still be accessible to the driver or passengers.

What a load of crap.

I typically take mine down while in motion and stick it in the console compartment.

Yet another reason to dislike driving in Virginia.

[Beltway]

Then please stop driving in Virginia if it gets your semicolon in a uproar.

[1995hoo]

^^^ So this basically means that even if you come to a full stop before or upon crossing the state line, remove your radar detector from its mount and then place it elsewhere in a hatchback, SUV, or other vehicle without a separate trunk, you are in violation of the law because technically it would still be accessible to the driver or passengers.

....

The statute actually refers to it being "readily accessible" to the driver or passengers. The article quoted above says "accessible," but it's a bit more nuanced than that. If you have a hatchback and you tuck the device into a duffel bag in the back beneath other luggage, you have a fair argument that it's not "readily accessible."

The article is a little misleading when it says police can confiscate the device. That doesn't mean they can keep it for good. They can take it only if needed as evidence; once it's no longer needed, the statute requires them to mail it back to you at your expense. I believe they originally tried to confiscate and destroy them but a federal court ruled they couldn't do that because the devices are legal elsewhere.

I used to use my Valentine One in Virginia when driving at night, but nowadays I don't even take it on out-of-state trips because I just don't drive as fast as I used to for a variety of reasons.

[oscar]

^ Also keep in mind that the police won't know you might have a detector on board unless your detector is visible, your vehicle has visible wiring or other stuff (like a V1 remote display) to tip off the cop, the cop finds some basis for a vehicle search, or the detector has its power on (such as if it's battery-powered and not turned off) and so can be picked up by a radar detector detector (in which case the device doesn't even qualify for the "in the trunk" exemption, which requires it to be unpowered).

Virginia law focuses on use of a detector while driving, not mere possession. It presumes that a detector was in use if it was "readily accessible", but if the detector is hidden under luggage in the back compartment of a hatchback, you can overcome that presumption.

[Beltway]

$449 on Amazon.   That takes a True Believer to want to spend that.  Seems like it would be easier to set the cruise control to 5 to 7 mph over a limit such as 70 and take advantage of that speed (and no, in over a million miles of driving I have never been ticketed for 5 to 7 mph over a limit and I do it routinely, and for that matter the vast majority of the miles in Virginia).

[oscar]

$449 on Amazon.

The V1 is about $50 less expensive when ordered direct from the manufacturer. And worth every penny.

That said, I'm driving slower in my old age, though even my elderly Prius is not safe from abusive small-town speed traps. When I get a new car,  I'm unsure whether I'll go through the trouble of installing the wiring needed for the optional remote display (so I can hang the detector from the passenger-side visor) I salvaged from my pickup truck before I put it out to pasture.

[Beltway]

It would be a waste of every penny for me, as I outlined.

[hbelkins]

Mine has saved me at least twice its cost in speeding tickets.

$449 on Amazon.   That takes a True Believer to want to spend that.  Seems like it would be easier to set the cruise control to 5 to 7 mph over a limit such as 70 and take advantage of that speed (and no, in over a million miles of driving I have never been ticketed for 5 to 7 mph over a limit and I do it routinely, and for that matter the vast majority of the miles in Virginia).

To me, the issue isn't going 75 or 77 on a freeway, but places on two-lane roads where the speed limit drops from 55 to 45 or lower when there's no apparent good reason for it.

[Beltway]

Mine has saved me at least twice its cost in speeding tickets.

Absence of one has cost me zero in speeding tickets.  In over a million miles.

To me, the issue isn't going 75 or 77 on a freeway, but places on two-lane roads where the speed limit drops from 55 to 45 or lower when there's no apparent good reason for it.

Normally that happens when entering a town or village area.

[oscar]

Normally that happens when entering a town or village area.

Sometimes it happens when the town limits are far from the populated area, and the speed limit suddenly drops from 55 to 25 at the town limit with no advance warning. The most glaring example I have in mind is in Idaho, but I've seen that in other states too.

[cpzilliacus]

I have never had a radar detector and will likely never spend my money on one.

The article rendered fine for me.

The bigger issue regarding radar detectors is that they are being made obsolete by Internet technology, at least where law enforcement engages in stationary speed limit enforcement with radar (the VSP seem to do less of this than  they used to, but it seems more common by municipal cops, especially at the edge of smaller cities and towns).

As stated in the article:

Carrico says newer police speed detectors have a "hold"  button that doesn't emit the radar until it's needed, basically making the radar detection systems useful, but only after it's too late and cops have got you clocked.

And on the consumer side, apps like Waze have used crowd-sourcing data to point out speed traps, largely making the detectors, which can cost up to $500, obsolete.

In Northern Virginia, the City of Falls Church and the Towns of Haymarket, Vienna and Leesburg seem to do a lot of speed limit enforcement, based on my own non-systematic observations.  Falls Church appears to be the place with the strictest speed limit enforcement in Northern Virginia these days - I had an unmarked Falls Church police car start to tail me on VA-338 (Hillwood Avenue).  Out of spite, I slowed from the posted 25 MPH limit down to 15, which visibly angered the cop (I  think he thought that a Maryland driver would be  an easy mark for a speeding summons in Falls Church), and after a few blocks, he turned off to look elsewhere for a speeder.

City of Fairfax used to have extremely aggressive speed limit enforcement, but much of that seems to have gone away for reasons not clear to me.

[oscar]

In Northern Virginia, the City of Falls Church and the Towns of Haymarket, Vienna and Leesburg seem to do a lot of speed limit enforcement, based on my own non-systematic observations.  Falls Church appears to be the place with the strictest speed limit enforcement in Northern Virginia these days

As a resident of an adjacent county, with many of my doctors practicing in Falls Church, I can confirm that Falls Church has long been super-strict on speed enforcement. Best to treat the entire city as a speed trap. Fortunately, only a little more than two square miles within its city limits (as opposed to the much larger area with Falls Church mailing addresses), including none of I-66 or US 50. So unless you've traveling the entire length of VA 7 along the city's northwest-southeast axis, you won't be there for long.

[AlexandriaVA]

Left unsaid in this discussion is that many houses are directly along VA-7 in the City of Falls Church. So if you want to gripe about being "forced" to go the speed limit along VA-7, consider how you would feel about people blowing by your residences 10-15 over the limit.

If you want to go fast, take I-66 or US-50. I have no beef with Falls Church enforcing rules strictly for the protection of their own residents.

[AlexandriaVA]

In Northern Virginia, the City of Falls Church and the Towns of Haymarket, Vienna and Leesburg seem to do a lot of speed limit enforcement, based on my own non-systematic observations.  Falls Church appears to be the place with the strictest speed limit enforcement in Northern Virginia these days

As a resident of an adjacent county, with many of my doctors practicing in Falls Church, I can confirm that Falls Church has long been super-strict on speed enforcement. Best to treat the entire city as a speed trap. Fortunately, only a little more than two square miles within its city limits (as opposed to the much larger area with Falls Church mailing addresses), including none of I-66 or US 50. So unless you've traveling the entire length of VA 7 along the city's northwest-southeast axis, you won't be there for long.

i.e. obey the speed limit?

[hbelkins]

The bigger issue regarding radar detectors is that they are being made obsolete by Internet technology, at least where law enforcement engages in stationary speed limit enforcement with radar (the VSP seem to do less of this than  they used to, but it seems more common by municipal cops, especially at the edge of smaller cities and towns).

As stated in the article:

Carrico says newer police speed detectors have a "hold"  button that doesn't emit the radar until it's needed, basically making the radar detection systems useful, but only after it's too late and cops have got you clocked.

And on the consumer side, apps like Waze have used crowd-sourcing data to point out speed traps, largely making the detectors, which can cost up to $500, obsolete.

Most of my encounters have been when meeting a cop running radar, not stationary enforcement. Last weekend I saw a Tennessee state trooper parked running radar in an area where there was no cell service, making Waze useless for that purpose (it already isn't very helpful when the cop is mobile and running radar at oncoming traffic.)

"Instant-on" technology has been around for years now, but if the cop clocks someone ahead of you, the V1 will pick that up and give you ample warning to slow down to the arbitrarily-chosen number.

[Rothman]

I lived in Falls Church.  Never got a ticket and wasn't aware of any excessive enforcement, but I travelled at times where it was impossible to speed most of the time anyway.

[seicer]

In Northern Virginia, the City of Falls Church and the Towns of Haymarket, Vienna and Leesburg seem to do a lot of speed limit enforcement, based on my own non-systematic observations.  Falls Church appears to be the place with the strictest speed limit enforcement in Northern Virginia these days

As a resident of an adjacent county, with many of my doctors practicing in Falls Church, I can confirm that Falls Church has long been super-strict on speed enforcement. Best to treat the entire city as a speed trap. Fortunately, only a little more than two square miles within its city limits (as opposed to the much larger area with Falls Church mailing addresses), including none of I-66 or US 50. So unless you've traveling the entire length of VA 7 along the city's northwest-southeast axis, you won't be there for long.

i.e. obey the speed limit?

Ahem, New Rome, Ohio. Granted this now defunct Ohio village had many problems outside of its illegal speed traps.

[Beltway]

City of Fairfax used to have extremely aggressive speed limit enforcement, but much of that seems to have gone away for reasons not clear to me.

How do you define "extremely aggressive speed limit enforcement"?  I am a uniformed volunteer with a local PD, not a sworn officer, does not have arrest powers; but I know for a fact that if speeding is the only issue observed by an officer, that they do not issue summons at under limit+15 mph unless there is authorization from a command level officer (as in Captain or above), and that is rarely given.  Two Sergeants in the Traffic Unit told us that in a training session on traffic control, and they said that nearly all other PDs follow the same practices.  Otherwise LE and the courts would be clogged up with meaningless work.

[seicer]

City of Fairfax used to have extremely aggressive speed limit enforcement, but much of that seems to have gone away for reasons not clear to me.

How do you define "extremely aggressive speed limit enforcement"?  I am a uniformed volunteer with a local PD, not a sworn officer, does not have arrest powers; but I know for a fact that if speeding is the only issue observed by an officer, that they do not issue summons at under limit+15 mph unless there is authorization from a command level officer (as in Captain or above), and that is rarely given.  Two Sergeants in the Traffic Unit told us that in a training session on traffic control, and they said that nearly all other PDs follow the same practices.  Otherwise LE and the courts would be clogged up with meaningless work.

Depends on jurisdiction. I had a state officer in Ohio and New York informing me that they don't ticket for anything less than 10 MPH over on interstates. But when small towns and rogue sheriffs operate revenue enhancement zones, sometimes illegally, that's where people take greater (and a more legitimate) stance. It's an issue in all states.

[seicer]

I see it two ways: legitimate speed enforcement through towns, and revenue traps. I don't argue that speeding through residential neighborhoods and dense urban environments is bad, but when the primary motivator is revenue for one department, then that opens up the law to interpretation. Not every town has safety as its number one interest. It may be partially because cities - especially small towns and resource-poor counties, overly rely on rogue officers. This is where I think community-based officers / volunteers (like what Scott does) is important.

[Beltway]

I see it two ways: legitimate speed enforcement through towns, and revenue traps. I don't argue that speeding through residential neighborhoods and dense urban environments is bad, but when the primary motivator is revenue for one department, then that opens up the law to interpretation. Not every town has safety as its number one interest. It may be partially because cities - especially small towns and resource-poor counties, overly rely on rogue officers. This is where I think community-based officers / volunteers (like what Scott does) is important.

Small town and county police officers and departments are subject to the same police accreditation and certification procedures and standards as are those in the big cities and state police, each state has their own board.  It is a fallacy to think that they are rubes and hicks.

There are regional police academies that provide for the scale of training needed for small departments of say 5 or 10 officers.