Study: Teens can't afford to drive

[corco]

1.  Do teenagers really need a smartphone that does everything in the book?  IMHO, one that just does calls and, maybe, text messages would be more affordable & practical.  Heck, I only got a cell phone 7 years ago because pay phones were just getting too scarce and my cell today is just a standard unit for calls and texts (no Smartphone).

Unfortunately, yes, I think so, at least for kids in middle class neighborhoods. It's more a societal pressure thing- if all their friends have a smartphone and expect to communicate by text/app, they're going to need to be able to do that to in order to maintain a healthy social life. That's really shitty and I hate that we're to that point, but I think we're there. If a kid as a limited amount of money and the choice between a car and a good phone to stay socially in the loop, I can see where they'd be inclined to pick the latter if they have alternate transportation options.

[PHLBOS]

My first car was a 1977 Ford Granada I bought for $325 from a guy at my father's office I'd known since I was a kid. The car was a boat, but it (usually) ran, and in some ways it was a very good car for a 16-year-old because it didn't handle nearly as well as the Honda and Volvo sedans my parents drove and on which I'd learned to drive, and it was heavier and the brakes weren't as good. All that meant I had to drive a lot more carefully than I might have in a more modern car.

The Granada a "boat"?  It was based on the compact Maverick, which was based on the compact Falcon.  My mom had a '75 and while it would be considered a larger car today, it didn't feel big at all to me.

I was tempted to make a similar comment earlier but held back.  To me a boat or land yacht would be something like the full-size Ford LTD and maybe the mid-size Torino or the era... at least among Fords.

Last night I saw a late model Lincoln Town Car (standard length) parked behind a '77-'79 Lincoln Continental along 5th Street in Philly.  Talk about a major shock in terms of the size difference.

BTW, the wheelbase of the current Ford Fusion and Taurus are actually 2 and 2.5 inches longer than the '75-'80 Granada.

[1995hoo]

Same here. My parents were adamant that I had to buy a car myself because they felt if I were financially invested in it I'd be more motivated to maintain it properly and I'd learn to care for cars for when I was out on my own without them to bail me out. My first car was a 1977 Ford Granada I bought for $325 from a guy at my father's office I'd known since I was a kid. The car was a boat, but it (usually) ran, and in some ways it was a very good car for a 16-year-old because it didn't handle nearly as well as the Honda and Volvo sedans my parents drove and on which I'd learned to drive, and it was heavier and the brakes weren't as good. All that meant I had to drive a lot more carefully than I might have in a more modern car. I later sold the Granada to my brother for $400 when he turned 16; at the same time, our father bought a new car for himself and sold me (yes, he required me to pay him for it, which I did in a lump-sum cash payment) his 1982 Accord to take with me to college.

The Granada a "boat"?  It was based on the compact Maverick, which was based on the compact Falcon.  My mom had a '75 and while it would be considered a larger car today, it didn't feel big at all to me.

But as I said, I learned to drive in my parents' cars, a Honda and a Volvo. The Granada was a boat compared to either of those. It's all a case of what you're used to driving.

Heck, when the 1982 Accord met its demise in 1995 due to undercarriage rust, the car with which I replaced it was a 1986 Acura Legend and it felt really big to me after driving the Accord for several years, although it was probably smaller than the Granada.

[KEK Inc.]

I drove in high school, but not in college.  Seattle is just not a good place for cars, and it takes less time to get to class and work via bike than car.

Besides, you can smoke a joint of weed (before it was legal) in front of a police precinct while stealing a homeless guy's pizza and Seattle PD probably wouldn't react, but if you park there past the 2 hour limit, you're fucked.

[agentsteel53]

Last night I saw a late model Lincoln Town Car (standard length) parked behind a '77-'79 Lincoln Continental along 5th Street in Philly.  Talk about a major shock in terms of the size difference.

'77-'79 Continental: 230.3 inches
2011 Town Car: 221.4 inches

the '77 looks so much longer because it's a 2-door, so the trunk and hood get exaggerated length.

[PHLBOS]

Heck, when the 1982 Accord met its demise in 1995 due to undercarriage rust, the car with which I replaced it was a 1986 Acura Legend and it felt really big to me after driving the Accord for several years, although it was probably smaller than the Granada.

It was.  For comparison purposes, the wheelbases of both the current Toyota Camry and Honda Accord are about 1/2" shorter than that of a '77 Granada.

Unfortunately, yes, I think so, at least for kids in middle class neighborhoods. It's more a societal pressure thing- if all their friends have a smartphone and expect to communicate by text/app, they're going to need to be able to do that to in order to maintain a healthy social life.  That's really shitty and I hate that we're to that point, but I think we're there.

I guess the question to be asked here is how much or how many of those smartphone features are actually needed to accomplish/stay in touch.  Phone & texting abilities, again I can see as a need.  But everything else is just fluff IMHO.

Having grown up in an upper-middle class neighborhood and being on the outside looking in w/the various cliques; I eventually realized that if someone judges you by what you have or posses, then they're not really your friends nor are they worth seeking/having.  In many instances, a sizeable chunk of the blame for the above goes towards the kids of plenty's parents but I digress.

Key words in below-quote shown in Bold:

If a kid as a limited amount of money and the choice between a car and a good phone to stay socially in the loop, I can see where they'd be inclined to pick the latter if they have alternate transportation options.

If they need a vehicle because their parents' and/or older siblings' vehicles aren't available and they're not located in a major metropolitan region where mass transit is frequent & available (example: NYC); they'll rethink their decision IMHO.  What good is being social-able if one can't get to any of the functions?

It's a 2-way street.

'77-'79 Continental: 230.3 inches
2011 Town Car: 221.4 inches

the '77 looks so much longer because it's a 2-door, so the trunk and hood get exaggerated length.

Not so fast.  The 70s Lincoln I saw last night was a 4-door model (see photo below for example).


And your listed dimensions are off.

The newer model I saw was the standard length Town Car which is about 215".  You posted the overall length of the extended-length L-series model (which featured wider rear doors). 

The overall length of the '75-'79 Lincoln Continentals/Town Cars/Town Coupes is about 233".  You posted the length of the '77-'79 Continental Mark V coupe.

The listed dimensions are from actual Lincoln literature.

[1995hoo]

Key words in below-quote shown in Bold:

If a kid as a limited amount of money and the choice between a car and a good phone to stay socially in the loop, I can see where they'd be inclined to pick the latter if they have alternate transportation options.

If they need a vehicle because their parents' and/or older siblings' vehicles aren't available and they're not located in a major metropolitan region where mass transit is frequent & available (example: NYC); they'll rethink their decision IMHO.  What good is being social-able if one can't get to any of the functions.

It's a 2-way street.

For what it's worth, the quotation there about choosing between the car and the phone is from corco, not from me.

[PHLBOS]

For what it's worth, the quotation there about choosing between the car and the phone is from corco, not from me.

Accidental copy/paste error.  It's been since corrected.

My apologies for that.

[1995hoo]

For what it's worth, the quotation there about choosing between the car and the phone is from corco, not from me.

Accidental copy/paste error.  It's been since corrected.

No worries. The quoting can be tricky to manage, especially if you use a mobile device.

[PHLBOS]

No worries. The quoting can be tricky to manage, especially if you use a mobile device.

Nope, my boo-boo was made from either a Western Electric Princess phone w/rotary dial or a party line. 

Seriously, the error was done on a PC and I was adding quotes from other users and forgot that the title containing your username was still being stored.

[corco]

Having grown up in an upper-middle class neighborhood and being on the outside looking in w/the various cliques; I eventually realized that if someone judges you by what you have or posses, then they're not really your friends nor are they worth seeking/having.  In many instances, a sizeable chunk of the blame for the above goes towards the kids of plenty's parents but I digress.

Right, you realize that now, but put yourself back in the shoes of a high schooler. Their brains often have very different priorities- they may be bad priorities, but that won't change how they choose to spend their money.

If they need a vehicle because their parents' and/or older siblings' vehicles aren't available and they're not located in a major metropolitan region where mass transit is frequent & available (example: NYC); they'll rethink their decision IMHO.  What good is being social-able if one can't get to any of the functions.

It's a 2-way street.

Yeah that one boggles my mind, but they seem to figure it out. Once again, it's a situation where we can sit here as adults and try to analyze it, but we won't understand it- I'm only seven years out of high school and even I went to school in a very different time- kids these days just have different perspectives on life.

[Molandfreak]

If they need a vehicle because their parents' and/or older siblings' vehicles aren't available and they're not located in a major metropolitan region where mass transit is frequent & available (example: NYC); they'll rethink their decision IMHO.  What good is being social-able if one can't get to any of the functions?

It's a 2-way street.

These kids get rides from someone else. Or they bike.

1.  Do teenagers really need a smartphone that does everything in the book?  IMHO, one that just does calls and, maybe, text messages would be more affordable & practical.  Heck, I only got a cell phone 7 years ago because pay phones were just getting too scarce and my cell today is just a standard unit for calls and texts (no Smartphone).

Unfortunately, yes, I think so, at least for kids in middle class neighborhoods. It's more a societal pressure thing- if all their friends have a smartphone and expect to communicate by text/app, they're going to need to be able to do that to in order to maintain a healthy social life. That's really shitty and I hate that we're to that point, but I think we're there. If a kid as a limited amount of money and the choice between a car and a good phone to stay socially in the loop, I can see where they'd be inclined to pick the latter if they have alternate transportation options.

I know plenty of kids who went for the car instead of the smartphone. It was far from impossible for them to stay in the loop. They have a phone and they have a laptop. No one "needs" to check facebook every 30 minutes. Most other apps are also covered by their laptop/they can get by without using.

No one where I went to high school ever got picked on/had repercussions from not being connected 24/7 (or being "poor" for that matter).

[Duke87]

I didn't even have my driver's license until after I'd finished a year of college. My parents or my friends' parents gave me a ride to everywhere at home in Connecticut and at school I was in New York City so I just walked or took public transit everywhere. My parents did pay for my car (to answer corco's previous question), but that wasn't until I finished college. It was a college graduation present. Prior to that, no car.

As for my phone, while I consider it a necessity now as an adult, when I was younger I was much more of an antisocial stick in the mud, and if told I had to pay for my own phone I would have opted not to have one, and my parents would not have been OK with that since then they'd have no reliable way of contacting me - mind you, when I was in college I did not use facebook and did not regularly check my email. I also kept my phone off most of the time. I intentionally made myself difficult to contact, much to my parents' consternation. When I got my first cellphone, I never asked for it. It was my mother's idea to give me one and it was kind of forced upon me.

...of course, my teenage experience was atypical in so many ways.

[vdeane]

Based on observation, I would say that a cell phone is essential these days.  Not that I have much of any experience there.  I'm incapable of being in any way typical.  Many aspects of my identity are in direct conflict if you go by what is typical.

[PHLBOS]

Based on observation, I would say that a cell phone is essential these days.

Cell phone, yes (given the disappearing pay phones over the last decade); Smartphones/iPhones, not necessarily.

If they need a vehicle because their parents' and/or older siblings' vehicles aren't available and they're not located in a major metropolitan region where mass transit is frequent & available (example: NYC); they'll rethink their decision IMHO.  What good is being social-able if one can't get to any of the functions?

It's a 2-way street.

These kids get rides from someone else. Or they bike.

1.  Do teenagers really need a smartphone that does everything in the book?  IMHO, one that just does calls and, maybe, text messages would be more affordable & practical.  Heck, I only got a cell phone 7 years ago because pay phones were just getting too scarce and my cell today is just a standard unit for calls and texts (no Smartphone).

Unfortunately, yes, I think so, at least for kids in middle class neighborhoods. It's more a societal pressure thing- if all their friends have a smartphone and expect to communicate by text/app, they're going to need to be able to do that to in order to maintain a healthy social life. That's really shitty and I hate that we're to that point, but I think we're there. If a kid as a limited amount of money and the choice between a car and a good phone to stay socially in the loop, I can see where they'd be inclined to pick the latter if they have alternate transportation options.

I know plenty of kids who went for the car instead of the smartphone. It was far from impossible for them to stay in the loop. They have a phone and they have a laptop. No one "needs" to check facebook every 30 minutes. Most other apps are also covered by their laptop/they can get by without using.

No one where I went to high school ever got picked on/had repercussions from not being connected 24/7 (or being "poor" for that matter).

No offense, but had you included the previous paragraph in my earlier quote (reposted below):

I guess the question to be asked here is how much or how many of those smartphone features are actually needed to accomplish/stay in touch.  Phone & texting abilities, again I can see as a need.  But everything else is just fluff IMHO.

you would have better seen the point I was trying to make regarding a teen's decision to by a Smartphone vs. a more economical cell phone.  I'm not sure you're aware of it but you did a complete 180 and proved/supported my earlier point in your rebuttal to corco's post (which contained one of my earlier post that corco was responding to).

Having grown up in an upper-middle class neighborhood and being on the outside looking in w/the various cliques; I eventually realized that if someone judges you by what you have or posses, then they're not really your friends nor are they worth seeking/having.  In many instances, a sizeable chunk of the blame for the above goes towards the kids of plenty's parents but I digress.

Right, you realize that now, but put yourself back in the shoes of a high schooler. Their brains often have very different priorities- they may be bad priorities, but that won't change how they choose to spend their money.

Yes and no.  While their priorities may be more temporal/short-term than those of an adult; history has proven time and time again, if it's an item of interest that they want, they're more likley to pursue such.

[Molandfreak]

If they need a vehicle because their parents' and/or older siblings' vehicles aren't available and they're not located in a major metropolitan region where mass transit is frequent & available (example: NYC); they'll rethink their decision IMHO.  What good is being social-able if one can't get to any of the functions?

It's a 2-way street.

These kids get rides from someone else. Or they bike.

1.  Do teenagers really need a smartphone that does everything in the book?  IMHO, one that just does calls and, maybe, text messages would be more affordable & practical.  Heck, I only got a cell phone 7 years ago because pay phones were just getting too scarce and my cell today is just a standard unit for calls and texts (no Smartphone).

Unfortunately, yes, I think so, at least for kids in middle class neighborhoods. It's more a societal pressure thing- if all their friends have a smartphone and expect to communicate by text/app, they're going to need to be able to do that to in order to maintain a healthy social life. That's really shitty and I hate that we're to that point, but I think we're there. If a kid as a limited amount of money and the choice between a car and a good phone to stay socially in the loop, I can see where they'd be inclined to pick the latter if they have alternate transportation options.

I know plenty of kids who went for the car instead of the smartphone. It was far from impossible for them to stay in the loop. They have a phone and they have a laptop. No one "needs" to check facebook every 30 minutes. Most other apps are also covered by their laptop/they can get by without using.

No one where I went to high school ever got picked on/had repercussions from not being connected 24/7 (or being "poor" for that matter).

No offense, but had you included the previous paragraph in my earlier quote (reposted below):

I guess the question to be asked here is how much or how many of those smartphone features are actually needed to accomplish/stay in touch.  Phone & texting abilities, again I can see as a need.  But everything else is just fluff IMHO.

you would have better seen the point I was trying to make regarding a teen's decision to by a Smartphone vs. a more economical cell phone.  I'm not sure you're aware of it but you did a complete 180 and proved/supported my earlier point in your rebuttal to corco's post (which contained one of my earlier post that corco was responding to).

Those actually would have worked better as two separate posts. In the first post, I was stating a common practice that teens without a car do, from my perspective as a teen myself. If it works for them, it works for them. On the other hand, I'm perfectly happy with my car, and I do believe it's just as important (if not, more important) as being able to make calls. Or text if you're into that.

[PHLBOS]

In the first post, I was stating a common practice that teens without a car do, from my perspective as a teen myself. If it works for them, it works for them.

Similar was the case even when I was a teen; I was usually one of that got asked for a lift/ride from time-to-time, even though my car was one of the oldest cars parked near the school and had a different colored hood & left front fender.  Note: during my senior year, some of that was reduced because other students started getting cars of their own.

As far as biking around is concerend; growing up in New England, biking only made sense if the destination wasn't too far away, in the daytime and/or decent weather.  Nobody biked anywhere during the wintertime. 

On the other hand, I'm perfectly happy with my car, and I do believe it's just as important (if not, more important) as being able to make calls. Or text if you're into that.

No disagreement from me on that point.

[Laura]

If they need a vehicle because their parents' and/or older siblings' vehicles aren't available and they're not located in a major metropolitan region where mass transit is frequent & available (example: NYC); they'll rethink their decision IMHO.  What good is being social-able if one can't get to any of the functions?

It's a 2-way street.

These kids get rides from someone else. Or they bike.

Yep. I came from rural suburbia, where in order to get almost anywhere in the first 16 years of your life, you had to be driven by someone else. I remember knowing people (teens and parents) with the attitude of "after 16 years, what's another 2 of being carted around by mom and dad?" I bought my car (with money in my savings - some actively saved up by me, some saved from birthday/christmas money gifts deposited by my parents when i was young) and paid for my gas, but my parents paid for my insurance. I had friends who were responsible for the whole bill, and they didn't drive because they couldn't afford it on a high school part time pay.

I got my license as soon as I could when I was 16 because I've always been incredibly wanderlusty. When I got my license 10 years ago, graduated licensing was just getting started. Now, there are a lot of restrictions where teens can't drive their friends in the car or past certain hours, which is pretty lame, imo. Half the fun of having my license was going places with my friends! I loved driving people around and going places. If I were a "typical" 16 year old today and I had a choice between car vs. smartphone, and I couldn't drive my friends around, it would make me reconsider getting a car. At least with the smartphone I could still keep up socially with friends with facebook/twitter/etc.

[formulanone]

Last night I saw a late model Lincoln Town Car (standard length) parked behind a '77-'79 Lincoln Continental along 5th Street in Philly.  Talk about a major shock in terms of the size difference.

'77-'79 Continental: 230.3 inches
2011 Town Car: 221.4 inches

the '77 looks so much longer because it's a 2-door, so the trunk and hood get exaggerated length.

Screw all that, I'm only just realizing those are 1990s DTM cars in the Longcat photo.

Wow, when my generation were teenagers, a few kids had beepers. Nobody really had a cell phone, and it's not as if many adults had them either (a couple of car phones here and there, but that's it). Most kids I knew saved up for a car, but a few had everything they could ever need paid for, and there were others that just saved up for college instead, figuring a car would come later. I guess a bunch of us always wondered what was at the end of that road and the next one, and what it really looked like...so going places and having fun - really doing next to nothing for the hell of it - was part of being a teenager, but we also didn't want to waste our time hanging out at some shopping mall or a parking lot, bitching about nothing to do. Gas was cheap, and some of us actually had cars with decent fuel economy for our $1.05/gallon.

It's so much more expensive now, kids can't just get as many jobs as before, insurance is expensive in most urban/suburban places, for even a $500 car. Many states even increased the legal driving age by a year in the past two decades.  I don't really think it's necessarily a Bad Thing, it's just the way things are going; my parents couldn't really afford nor need a car until they were about 20, they just borrowed their families' and friends' vehicles, because it was legal then.

[PHLBOS]

It's so much more expensive now, kids can't just get as many jobs as before, insurance is expensive in most urban/suburban places, for even a $500 car. Many states even increased the legal driving age by a year in the past two decades.  I don't really think it's necessarily a Bad Thing, it's just the way things are going;

Add to that the perpetual brainwashing (i.e. the car is evil) that's molded/created an anti-car mindset among many (but certainly not all) of the younger generation (especially those in more urbanized areas) for roughly the last decade, possibly longer.

Key phrases in the below-quote are shown in Bold for emphasis:

my parents couldn't really afford nor need a car until they were about 20, they just borrowed their families' and friends' vehicles, because it was legal then.

If it's not legal today; the above is not considered to be a viable option/alternative.

[NE2]

The car is evil.

[Brandon]

The car is evil.

So, are you Old Order Amish?

[NE2]

I'm Goat.

[Molandfreak]

The car is evil.

So, are you Old Order Amish?

Then why would he be on the internet?

[Brandon]

The car is evil.

So, are you Old Order Amish?

Then why would he be on the internet?

Exactly why I asked.  If cars are evil, then computers are as well.